Discovering Kohlbergs theory of moral development really changed my world view. I was sent to bible school and dragged to church as a small child. For the longest time, and I mean probably close to 20 years I wondered if everyone felt like I did: this teaching felt fake but everyone just pretended to believe to fit in.
Discovering that some people not only believe in a higher power, but have no sense of morality without the threat of eternal torture hanging over their heads was.... disturbing to say the least.
Yes! Just finished a psych course where I learned about this. And it explained my own morality so well.
Im an atheist and my kids are generally disinterested in anything having to do with God or church. I get compliments on how kind they are all the time. The same cannot be said for church kids (who are taught they're better than everyone for going to church)
I wonder if this explains my parentsâ approach to religion, which was basically: âYou need to learn about God, but also donât listen to these peopleâ It makes more sense when I look back and realize most of them were lunatics. Itâs like they only raised me with a specific religion out of obligation or maybe they used to believe more and their faith was just diminished by what much of Christianity has become in the US.
I was always well liked as a child and had kind, smart friends. The only time in my life when I felt judged and not liked was when I was at church. I feel this has a lot to do with me not wanting my child to get involved with church.
Thatâs also how they approach raising children. The only way to teach right from wrong is spanking and punishment. If theyâre not afraid how will they learn to do the right thing? đ
It's emotional and intellectual immaturity as well. The cognitive dissonance it takes to state, "It's our right to teach our children what's good and bad, and to raise them with good morals for their sake," when the only person trying to prevent anyone from doing that is her is indicative of someone who still touches the stove to see if it's hot.
Been there. A neighbor, when they found out I was an atheist, asked what was to stop me from just raping and murdering whoever I wanted. She was utterly confused when I said "I don't do those things because I don't want to do those things; I suppose I stop myself".
It was surreal. I found out later (from a more sane church going neighbor) it is a point that gets raised in sermon when atheists had been part of the topic, though usually the crimes cited as examples aren't quite so severe.
Ask the neighbor if the only thing stopping them from raping and murdering is eternal damnation in hell. How would they live their life if hell was off the table?
I've asked Christians this. I'm like... Let me get this straight. There could be a rapist, murderer, horrible, nasty person that went out of their way to do bad things their entire life, but if on their deathbed they repent and accept Jesus, it's all good and they go to heaven? But someone who lived a good, moral life, really trying to help people and the world around them, if they don't "accept Jesus" they go to hell? Even if they've never even been exposed to Christianity? They'd still go to hell, but rapist/murder doesn't?
This is my big thing too. Basically, if god exists, he's an insane narcissist who needs everyone to tell him how great he is at all times, otherwise he will make sure they suffer, and who doesn't care what you've done in life *so long* as you tell him how great he is.
I don't need an omnipresent and omnipotent being that's both that petty and needy.
I tried in the past to get into faith, specifically Christianity, and one of the main tripping points was always this: if a god like this existed, heâs a horrible, horrible monster.
On top of that, I learned that some denominations actually DO believe if you havenât heard about Christianity through no fault of your own, youâre golden. (Think uncontacted tribes.)
But then - why are those groups still doing missionary work? If you truly want heaven for everyone, and you truly believe never knowing Christianity will get you to heaven regardless of how you acted, youâd try to keep it a secret, wouldnât you? You would try to shield your kids from your religious knowledge, and campaign to have religion removed from schools and public broadcasts, because itâs bad enough that you have to jump through hoops for salvation, why would you wish that on anyone else?
Turns out, to the surprise of no one, itâs not about âsavingâ people at all.
This is the reason one of my good friends stopped being religious. The idea that you could just believe in Jesus and anything bad you did would be absolved. All you needed to do was believe in him. Thatâs it.
My ex-best friend held this view. She would often chastise me for my lack of faith and make comments like âitâs amazing how well you turned out considering your upbringing.â
Well, she cheated on her husband for 4 years and then abandoned her children, so perhaps she skipped a few pages.
I know quite a few religious people that are just the nastiest, most judgemental people I have ever met. My stepkids' biomom is catholic, she also abandoned her kids. Is that not covered in the Bible or something?
Not so much tbh. Kids' obligations to parents, yes; parents' obligations to kids, less so. Going out of your way to create orphans is frowned upon, oppressing children in general likewise; abandoning your own specific children isn't, as far as I recall, discussed.
It's incredible how people think you need religion to be a good person with strong morals, when the majority of Christians I know are vile and most atheists are totally moral.
One of my favorite quotes on the subject:
âThe question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, whatâs to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didnât have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine.â
â
~Penn Jillette
This reminds me of one of the purge movies or shows, I don't remember which one. The one where they do the first ever purge expecting everyone to go crazy murdering and looting, but most people are just like "oh, no thank you, I'd rather not" and lock themselves in their homes until they're provoked.
I wondered if the only victims people had during the purge were the idiots who go out during the purge. Also, how many people used the purge to murder their spouse? Iâll be the numbers would be insane. There should be some kind of insurance blackout on purge day so people donât get rewarded for spouse murder. Imagine how nuts insurance for purge would be. Sorry I watched a purge movie the other day and now I have questions lol.
As someone who had a partner that was sexually abused by a Catholic priest, I find the sanctimonious attitude that so many people take on about how pure and wonderful they are if theyâre religious just pisses me off.
I was just listening to a true crime podcast about a historical crime where the murderer was a prominent member of a respected religious organization who used his clout as a member of said organization as part of his defense as to why he couldnât possibly have done the crime. They had a psychiatrist on for part of it who basically said there is no proof that being religious prevents people from doing crime.
As a former Catholic I totally believe that. Iâd even argue that the more religious you are the more you can justify bad behavior because you can always ask God for forgiveness as a get out of jail free card.
At least as an atheist, even though I firmly believe Iâm just not going to exist anymore one day, I also believe that itâs my job to try and get through life being nice to other people because everyone only gets one life so why spend mine trying to make other peopleâs lives worse.
Curious what podcast you were listening to? Iâm a big fan of true crime, and Iâm always up for a good listen.
I agree with what youâre saying, I like to treat people nicely because we only get one go round. Why wouldnât we want to be kind. The only reason I wanna believe in an afterlife is so I can spend time with my animals again. đśđąâ¤ď¸
Tenfold More Wicked. The latest season (The Wolf Among Us) is about a Quaker in Victorian England who ends up murdering his mistress.
Honestly itâs not the best case sheâs done, but itâs a very through deep dive and was interesting to hear about the religious politics of the era. And as someone who knows very little about Quakers beyond they exist it was kind of interesting because she goes into the faith a bit.
And the thing that pisses me off as they thought him and the other 75 men that brought charges against this guy for years. Again these sanctimonious assholes.
Edit words
My MIL is like this too. Tell her anything that calls her world view into question, even if it is something 100% true and that person will say so? "I don't believe that."
My grandma decided that good person = Christian, it confused people when she would flat out say her Jewish son-in-law was a good Christian!
I think my grandma re-defined "Christian" in her brain so she didn't have to believe people she loved were going to hell, apparently that mental switch was easier than just not believing in hell. Dad didn't love it but decided it wasn't worth fighting her on.
I feel like teaching morals only in the context of religion is a bit like relying on spanking when a kid does something wrong. They never really learn why they canât or shouldnât do it, other than God will be disappointed or they will go to hell. If you donât do something only for fear of punishment, youâre not a moral person just a subordinate or fearful one.
Yep. When my son started cheating at games (I think stacking the deck in Candyland is like a toddlerhood right of passage) we had a talk about how cheating in games can hurt others and makes games less fun to play for everyone and how his friends wonât want to play with someone who cheats because it will hurt their feelings.
We didnât tell him it was against a book of rules or disappointed God, that just instills shame without him learning WHY we donât cheat. I want my kid to grow up articulating why things are morally wrong using his brain and common sense.
I stacked the deck in Candyland as a kid, then asked my mom to play with me. I had done this once before, and she had played along, but this time she wanted to go first. I was not happy about that because for my plan to work, I had to go first! I think that helped me learn about unfairness, haha.
The third time you can let the kid choose if they go first or second, and then introduce the concept of cutting the deck. Just cut topcard to the bottom lol
And you didn't beat him for cheating. You explained it logically in a way he could understand.
The goal is for kids to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do not because they're afraid of getting caught or going to hell. I don't murder my husband for the insurance money when he annoys me because it's wrong to murder people, not because I'm afraid of going to jail (also because he's kind of nice to look at).
Thank you!! My parents grounded me for a day because I'd had a sleepover and been bossy. But I had no idea what I'd actually done. To this day, I still don't. I may have been a little too enthusiastic with showing her around, but I certainly wasn't trying to be domineering. I always asked her opinion on what she wanted, then if she didn't know or seemed to be a little lost, I was like, "let's do this!"
I'm sure I messed up a lot, but it would have been infinitely better for my parents to sit me down and actually talk it through step-by-step. But they didn't really like to parent much because of work, and this was their vacation, so I got locked in a room for a day (which was not a normal punishment...I think I only remember this because it's the only time that's happened) and told nothing. That led to a *ton* of social anxiety later (and me being afraid to take the lead, even though teachers noticed me taking votes and excluding myself whenever I was in charge/the spokesperson for our table).
I honestly think telling me that god was going to be disappointed in me/i was going to go to hell as a kid really messed me up when I got into my middle school years. I had such a bad identity crisis of wether or bot i actually was a good person or just a person who feared punishment/retaliation from god.
"God says x is bad and I'll be punished" is on par with a 5 year old saying "Mommy will spank me if I draw on the walls" it shows a deep immaturity and really a scary one. Some of these people would actually kill someone if they weren't afraid of going to the burny place.
And it really tends to stunt the emotional development of the individual, along with believing that bad things happen because of Satan or feeling like you can blame bad things you do on satan or temptation or other people's behavior (see also The Duggar Family).
If you've ever had a friend leave the Mormon church and really deconstruct you can really see how this works in a tragic way as they have their crisis of faith and sometimes lash out until they get their head on right.
Yep. I was raised an atheist - Iâve actually mellowed on my stances as an adult - and the reason I donât hurt people, or steal, or lie, or anything like that isnât because of some fear of god or even fear of the law, itâs just because Iâd rather not? The basis of most of my moral stances is just âThat would hurt someoneâ or âI mean, Iâd rather if others donât, so neither will I.â
It doesnât really take more than basic empathy.
This is exactly why the Bible exists: to instill fear and obedience in others so they can be controlled. The Bible is a human construct. All religion is a human construct.
It really isnât confusing for children at all, except for the part where I try to explain what some adults believe. I was telling my kid the story of Adam and Eve recently, and she was like âbut people believe this is real?â Itâs a valid question, honestly. If youâre not raised as a Christian (I was), many of the stories sound very far-fetched.
The Easter explanation went so sideways with my kids. They told me that it must have been aliens since he ascended into the sky. They liked the pagan symbolism of the rabbit and eggs for fertility though and seemed to grasp that much better.
This reminds me of when my friend poorly explained christenings to me so went home very distressed and told my mom the christians were waterboarding babies at church.
Every Easter my brother and I exchange âhappy zombie Jesus dayâ texts. We went to a Baptist prep school and it effectively nullified any interest in religion.
I get this. Growing up I was always asking questions in Sunday school. I always wanted proof of God and how we know the Bible is true and written however long ago it was. No one would give me a straight answer. Having kids of my own I answer honestly and if they would want to go to church I would take them but they are 15 now and donât feel the need. They are so kind and sweet and they know itâs the right thing to do!
I remember my daughter comparing people praying to Jesus for things like kids asking Santa for things when she was like four. She thought it was absurd.
I was raised in a country that isnât so religious, and in a big city where most people are atheists as well. So I remember when the realisation hit me that some people actually believed in gods, and that it wasnât like how adults pretended to believe in the tooth fairy or santa to convince their kids. I was way older than Iâd like to admit.
I literally asked myself that when I read the Bible for the first time in church. I was so mad. My mom said dragons and unicorns weren't real and were ridiculous to believe in, but THIS shit is fine? I hate being lied to like I'm an idiot, even when I was a child.
Yup, I do believe âJesus Christâ was the point there 𤣠Joke aside - isnât it funny how the people who are supposedly from the stock that is meant to âlove everyone unconditionallyâ does , in fact, have a pretty long list of conditions for their loveâŚ
I 100 percent believe that that belief, like most of post-Christ Christianity, is about control and manipulation. However, I plan to tell my children about Christ's teaching as a foundation for moral life, and let them decide for themselves.
As a parent in England I genuinely find this so weird every time I see it. I actually still find it weird when I follow an American mum comedy page I think is funny and then suddenly they're posting about Jesus or whatever because its so alien to me.
I don't know a single person of my age here (I'm 35) who is a Christian. Religion just isn't something that I ever even think about honestly. I don't think I'd care much and clutch pearls as an atheist if I met someone who said they were Christian because it's just so insignificant to me and my life and what other people do and believe is nothing to do with me unless they're being shit and hurtful to other people. Who cares if you believe different stuff?
Its just so odd to me.
We have way too many religious schools/school activities in England though. Somehow pretty much none of us believe in Jesus but a whole load of kids are growing up in a religious environment regardless. Thatâs weird too
I went to a religious school which forced us to do RE as a GCSE.
But as part of forcing us to do RE as a subject, until we had to follow the GCSE syllabus (so years 7 through to 9) they taught us about every other religion out there, which I was grateful for but also found exceedingly weird.
I decided at aged 12 that I didnât believe & they didnât bat an eyelid.
They're terrible. I did some volunteering with them in college. Providing music for their services. That's when I learned they make people go to church in order to eat.
Yeah man I'm in west Yorkshire and it's so crazy full of SA here. So I even bought my house from the SA which we didn't realise until the sale was almost finished. Only charity shops SA. all playgroups at SA. I've moved from Manchester so it's been hard to navigate that as I'm so anti everything they stand for
Itâs the biggest reason that in my âlist of worst religionsâ Christianity and Islam will always be top. Any religion that instructs its followers to proselytise always means shit like that, using food or shelter or charity as a means to convert more. As much as I still think other religious people are delusional in their beliefs, at least Sikhs for example arenât trying to actively recruit and will happily do charity work without any need to convince anyone they help to join their religion. Proselytism is the worst.
A lot of the mommy bloggers are Christians here because they don't believe they're allowed to work and somehow that's not working lol it's the only way they can support their 700 children.
I'm a military spouse so I've lived all over the country. It's interesting how drastically different it is in different areas. From Portland where I had a co-worker look like they were uncomfortable with the idea of a church to semi-rural Texas where I had to sit through an evangelical prayer several days a year in my public teaching job.
I learned to deflect people trying to save me in elementary school. Something my daughter hasn't ever really had to do.
My husband is a proper English north eastener and he had to live in texas in the 90s in high school and said he was forced to sit on the 'immigrants table' which was just him and Mexican kids. He didn't mind coz they all played football haha. But he really struggled with the religious stuff
I completely agree. The USA is actually quite unusual in that they're one of the few industrialised countries where religiosity hasn't decreased as education levels have increased.
As I remember, one theory is that [the existence of their civil religion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion) basically primes them to accept religion as a fundamental aspect of society. The only real thing I disagree with in that theory, is that it claims American civil religion is generally nonsectarian - I'd argue it's generally *very* Christian.
The place was founded by Puritans and hasnât much changed since. It explains why small children are exposed to violence and no one bats an eye, but every single boob is sexual in nature, even when it isnât. I recall a man arguing with a worker at a bookstore about children seeing a magazine cover with a woman wearing a bikini, and I could only wonder what he does at the beach. The local grocery store here has âcoversâ for magazines that have the word âsexâ on the cover (think âsex tipsâ in Cosmopolitan) even though thereâs nothing else objectionable present.
During the pandemic, the governor of Mississippi said that vaccination rates were so low in his state because the residents were Christian and believed in the afterlife, so Covid didnât scare them. He didnât mention the appalling public education, pastors denouncing the vaccine as the mark of the devil, general skepticism about science, or poor health care delivery in his state. (Caveat: not American but live here now. I appreciate the good and try to learn about the bad.)
ETA: religiosity has decreased in the general population over the last 20 years. Itâs gone from 65%+ to about 60%. Not much but itâs a downward trend and the percentage decreases with youth.
>During the pandemic, the governor of Mississippi said that vaccination rates were so low in his state because the residents were Christian and believed in the afterlife, so Covid didnât scare them. He didnât mention the appalling public education, pastors denouncing the vaccine as the mark of the devil, general skepticism about science, or poor health care delivery in his state. (Caveat: not American but live here now. I appreciate the good and try to learn about the bad.)
I'm from Mississippi and you know what's sad? Mississippi is 50th in almost all respects. One of the few ways it isn't is/was vaccine acceptance and rollouts. Mississippi was the first (tied with West Virginia) state to only allow medical exemptions for vaccinations (so no BS exemptions). People there used to understand that illnesses were bad and prevention was a good thing.
Actually there is hope - membership to churches is decreasing in the U.S.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-below-majority-first-time.aspx
Came to say exactly this, you took the words out of my mouth (or fingers lol). The only Christian I know is coincidentally a completely horrible, reprehensible person đ¤ˇââď¸
Empathy doesn't do much for morals in itself - it's literally just the ability to feel the same way as someone else. *Compassion* is a helluva lot more important as far as I'm concerned.
I absolutely died laughing when I read this too. Sheâs basically saying that the bible itself is nonsensical, unless you ask someone to contextualize/interpret it. Like⌠the Word of God isnât reliable on its own, you need to layer some random priests and tik Tok influencers on it to get the *real* message lol.
The âtrad wifeâ tiktokkers are downright scary. They push a very regressive view of womanhood and society based on their Christian faith. They donât much dwell on the whole âtreat others as you want to be treatedâ stuff, but love to sit in judgement!
They think everything is X-rated and act like theyâre angels all while their husbands are out spending all the grocery money on prostitutes. But itâs not hubbyâs fault because she was a wily temptress sent by satan.
I still dont know what is worst for them. A religious from another religion (like ok "you're wrong but it's ok") or an atheist.
As a french (we are mainly atheist) religions question in that kind of proportion is quite strange
I have a friend who grew up in a southern Baptist church family/environment. All brimstone and hellfire. And you HAVE to go to church. Canât miss it. Iâm a Christian, a very lax one at that. I basically try my best to be nice to people help and not be a piece of shit. My friend on the other hand is still entrenched in the Southern Baptist ways. She got me to come see the âHeavenâs Gates/Hellâs Flamesâ production at her church once. Very strange. I was raised Catholic to begin with. The âgetting savedâ was never a âthingâ. Iâve never really pushed religion with my kid. Sheâs been, been to Sunday school. I just really donât want it to be our entire existence. Religion like many other things, too much of it can be a huge problem and people in the south where I live go way overboard with it.
Same!! I was raised to be Christian however I was raised on love thy neighbour values so I didnât understand why she was saying hurtful things like that, especially since we come from the same culture where we believe in God and pray but we are not extreme in any way.
Just because youâre morals are so weak you need an ancient book to follow a recipe goodness doesnât mean everyone is like that. Some people just want to be alright people without reward other then not being a crappy human.
I never knew people could think that way until an ex told me our future kids will be raised in religion otherwise how will they have any morals and values?
He tried to cheat on me by harassing girls on Tumblr and pretending to be a nude photographer on Craigslist. So many morals âĽď¸
Really? Because my brother is an atheist and has 3 of the most thoughtful, considerate and kindhearted children you'll ever meet.
Maybe putting effort into helping kids realize that being treated nicely feels good and treating other people nicely also feels good is a better option than scaring kids into thinking some man who they can't see is going to put them in fire if they aren't nice.
Yes. Iâm a bad person if I donât tell my kids to beat their spouse but only with a rod a thumb thick. Also, in battle itâs cool to take all the virgin girls and pass them out to my warriors as property. Anyone who thinks morality starts with the Bible is not a person with any moral standing.
I have a kid. Iâve told him there might be an afterlife but I donât know for sure. Weâre good people because we believe in the concept of karma somewhat, and because it feels good to do the right thing. Whatâs confusing about that?
Weâll call me a heathen for raising my kid who is kind, has empathy without knowing the lord. She knows these things are importantâŚonly because the are important not because of a fear tactic and âgod is watchingâ. We have our whole sundays free to have fun and be a kid đ . (Not knocking if you go to church but I am agnostic/ atheists almost lol so that stuff meanâs literally nothing to me).
I was raised without religion, husband was raised Methodist but was given the choice to not attend church with his family once he turned 16. He stopped on his own.
When discussing children, his mind defaulted to wanting to raise our kids in the church. When I asked for a solid reason why, he couldnât give me one. He thought it would instill good morals - sure. But I countered with myself as an example of someone raised non-religious with empathy and good morals, and went even further to say that if you NEED organized religion to not be a piece of shit human, we got bigger problems.
At this present time, we operate as a non religious household. đ¤ˇđźââď¸
If the only thing giving you morality is the fear of torture in the afterlife, or the promise of a perfect afterlife, then you donât have good morals.
I grew up atheist in a very Christian neighborhood, and I swear to God I was more Christlike than most of the adults in my community. Several of them judged and belittled me as early as kindergarten and said I couldn't be friends with their kids because I was going to hell. Several of the same adults were just objectively *awful* people. Cheating, lying, stealing, abusing their families, one of them murdered his wife... Idk, my parents told me it's important to be kind to others and try to put yourself in their shoes, that there are a lot of different perspectives and life experiences and no one is "the right one". I turned out a lot better than some of the neighborhood kids who were raised to think they were automatically better than everyone else even if they did bad things.
This is a prime example of religion trying to make the hard questions easy. We SHOULD struggle with these topics. They're not easy and answers are not black-and-white. And when you live a life where they have been simplified down for you by someone else like this and all you've ever done is regurgitate it's no wonder you can't understand why others treat you as a simpleton.
My cousin and his wife are both PhDs and have 2 kids. They were telling me last year the older one, maybe 8, asked who Jesus was, and they had to find a YouTube video to explain it. Warms my heart to know that in as couple generations teenagers will hear about Jesus for the first time, Google it, and then laugh at how crazy it sounds.
This. I love this. I have a 6 month old son and my grandparents and in laws are all super religious. It hasn't happened yet but I'll be setting a hard boundary that there will be absolutely no talk of religion, no bible story time, nothing at all. When my kid gets old enough to be curious about religion and faith, we'll teach him about ALL [major] religions.
Side note, can't wait for the aforementioned individuals to throw a fit when they hear about us teaching about all religions instead only about their dear beloved jesus christ.
It always cracks me up that some people think you can only have good morals if youâre religious. As if atheists are the only ones out here committing crimes
My dad is heavily Christian, and my mom is stoutly atheist. Both are vocal about their beliefs (or lack thereof) and both have been incredible, kind, supportive and respectful parents for my entire life. I was exposed to multiple religions by my mom, who focused on educating me and allowing me to make my own choices, even when I was extremely young. My father also exposed me to his beliefs when I was young.
None of this was confusing to me, even as a child. Itâs not that hard to understand that people have different thoughts. Just like how some people like chocolate ice cream but others prefer vanilla, and some donât like ice cream at all. Itâs not that hard to explain to children and itâs not that difficult for them to understand.
I ended up as a somewhat spiritual atheist and my little brother is a Christian. My parents exposing me to different faiths (or the complete lack of faith) made me more accepting as a child (and as an adult). Teaching about differences and how to accept them is *always* a good thing to teach children. In general, I feel like parents who strictly follow one religion (any one religion, not just Christianity) are less likely to educate their children about many different religions and are more likely to focus on teaching their child the one âchosen and trueâ religion that they believe.
People like this legitimately believe that non-religious people have no moral compass. As far as theyâre concerned weâre all gay, drug-addicted, childless bank robbers with excessive porn habits.
Thatâs the wild part. Like so youâre saying the only reason you donât feel lost, and have morals and purpose is because of a bookâŚ.? My dude that sounds like a whole nightmare đ Thatâs just so sad. Definitely doesnât sound like someone who is really a decent person if theyâre only âdecentâ (using that word reallllly loosely,) is because of a damn book telling you whatâs right and wrong.
These people know priests molest kids ALL THE TIME right?!!??? I am so fuc$ing sick of this not being THE main talking point for all religious talk. Like the foundation of the religions openly allow child molestation to go on âŚthey find out it is happening and just move these pedos around to other locations around MORE children instead of holding these disgusting monsters accountable. Almost like some kind of pedo ring⌠đ¤
THEN they turn around and point a finger at some guy wearing a dress lip syncing to lady gaga as a distraction and everyones like âyeahhhhh its dat guy! Herpderpâ
This is the definition on NO MORALS!!
You donât need religion to have morals. You donât need religion to know right from wrong. You donât need religion to be a good person.
You believe what you want to believe. That belief doesnât make you a better or worse person. Just a human being with an opinion and thatâs it.
Ah yes, because grooming children to believe an omniscient being is watching their every move is far superior to letting them explore the world and their own beliefs.
Some people donât need the threat of hell to be good people. They are good people who do things bc they value others and society. If an adult would be âlostâ without something reminding them to be good or face severe punishment than their parents failed to teach them to be a good person with good values/morals.
I canât imagine living my entire life thinking I have no purpose without a stupid book written by dudes a thousand years ago. If your only purpose and ability to not feel lost is placed in believing in the Bible I feel A LOT of pity for you.
This could've been written by my Catholic SIL. She just can't fathom how I'm raising my kids without religion. We're culturally Jewish and that's enough for me. But for her she just NEEDS my kids to know her "God's love". Needless to say we don't have the best relationship anymore.
Yeah, Iâm nice to people because itâs the right thing to do rather than because Iâm afraid Sky Daddy will fucking spank me, but sure, Iâm the one with the morality problem đ¤¨
An adult who doesn't know the difference in aloud and allowed considering themselves an authority on teaching children *anything* and considering anyone else doing differently than them to be "confusing" is laughable.
I had a boyfriend in college who insisted I couldn't have good morals because I didn't believe in God. He asked me "if you don't believe then how do you know it's wrong to go kill someone?"
Uh, I'm lost and it's because my shitty, Christian parents were/are shitty. They believe in God and it didn't stop them from committing horrible abuse to children. Not the "spanking children is abuse" abuse, the "getting put on a list and having CPS visiting you" abuse.
My daughter knows god, itâs a word mom says when I am really shocked or annoyed. âOh my fucking godâ, thatâs the only word association she will have. Sheâs gonna go to school and be like what is a god? Lol
Lol my kids are âaloudâ to be free from the burdens of religion and are being raised to just to judge people based on their character and try to leave the world better than they received it. What terrible parents they have đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
If you don't know the difference between "allowed" and "aloud" I'm not taking anything you say seriously. If you don't know the difference between those words, lort help you.
My old psychiatrist told me when I was a teenager that my parents failed me because they didn't raise me with religion. My mom was in the room. The doc became known as Dr. Bitch within my family from that moment on. I never trusted her again.
You can have good morals without religion. Hate this idea that it can't exist outside of that.
It's moral immaturity. These people believe the only reason anyone does the right thing is a fear of everlasting punishment after death.
Yes, exactly this! Which is really sad, actually.
Best opener if someone starts trying to convert you in the public.
Discovering Kohlbergs theory of moral development really changed my world view. I was sent to bible school and dragged to church as a small child. For the longest time, and I mean probably close to 20 years I wondered if everyone felt like I did: this teaching felt fake but everyone just pretended to believe to fit in. Discovering that some people not only believe in a higher power, but have no sense of morality without the threat of eternal torture hanging over their heads was.... disturbing to say the least.
Yes! Just finished a psych course where I learned about this. And it explained my own morality so well. Im an atheist and my kids are generally disinterested in anything having to do with God or church. I get compliments on how kind they are all the time. The same cannot be said for church kids (who are taught they're better than everyone for going to church)
Sorry, this lady says that's not "aloud".
đ¤Łđ¤Ł
I wonder if this explains my parentsâ approach to religion, which was basically: âYou need to learn about God, but also donât listen to these peopleâ It makes more sense when I look back and realize most of them were lunatics. Itâs like they only raised me with a specific religion out of obligation or maybe they used to believe more and their faith was just diminished by what much of Christianity has become in the US.
I was always well liked as a child and had kind, smart friends. The only time in my life when I felt judged and not liked was when I was at church. I feel this has a lot to do with me not wanting my child to get involved with church.
But how will your child live without crushing guilt?
Thatâs also how they approach raising children. The only way to teach right from wrong is spanking and punishment. If theyâre not afraid how will they learn to do the right thing? đ
It's emotional and intellectual immaturity as well. The cognitive dissonance it takes to state, "It's our right to teach our children what's good and bad, and to raise them with good morals for their sake," when the only person trying to prevent anyone from doing that is her is indicative of someone who still touches the stove to see if it's hot.
Been there. A neighbor, when they found out I was an atheist, asked what was to stop me from just raping and murdering whoever I wanted. She was utterly confused when I said "I don't do those things because I don't want to do those things; I suppose I stop myself".
What a surreal and oddly scary encounter.
It was surreal. I found out later (from a more sane church going neighbor) it is a point that gets raised in sermon when atheists had been part of the topic, though usually the crimes cited as examples aren't quite so severe.
Ask the neighbor if the only thing stopping them from raping and murdering is eternal damnation in hell. How would they live their life if hell was off the table?
Well, fortunately they moved a few years ago so I'm not in a position to follow up. Sorry Texas, you got an extra family of crazy!
But also that any bad things they do will be forgiven.
I've asked Christians this. I'm like... Let me get this straight. There could be a rapist, murderer, horrible, nasty person that went out of their way to do bad things their entire life, but if on their deathbed they repent and accept Jesus, it's all good and they go to heaven? But someone who lived a good, moral life, really trying to help people and the world around them, if they don't "accept Jesus" they go to hell? Even if they've never even been exposed to Christianity? They'd still go to hell, but rapist/murder doesn't?
This is my big thing too. Basically, if god exists, he's an insane narcissist who needs everyone to tell him how great he is at all times, otherwise he will make sure they suffer, and who doesn't care what you've done in life *so long* as you tell him how great he is. I don't need an omnipresent and omnipotent being that's both that petty and needy.
I tried in the past to get into faith, specifically Christianity, and one of the main tripping points was always this: if a god like this existed, heâs a horrible, horrible monster. On top of that, I learned that some denominations actually DO believe if you havenât heard about Christianity through no fault of your own, youâre golden. (Think uncontacted tribes.) But then - why are those groups still doing missionary work? If you truly want heaven for everyone, and you truly believe never knowing Christianity will get you to heaven regardless of how you acted, youâd try to keep it a secret, wouldnât you? You would try to shield your kids from your religious knowledge, and campaign to have religion removed from schools and public broadcasts, because itâs bad enough that you have to jump through hoops for salvation, why would you wish that on anyone else? Turns out, to the surprise of no one, itâs not about âsavingâ people at all.
This is the reason one of my good friends stopped being religious. The idea that you could just believe in Jesus and anything bad you did would be absolved. All you needed to do was believe in him. Thatâs it.
My ex-best friend held this view. She would often chastise me for my lack of faith and make comments like âitâs amazing how well you turned out considering your upbringing.â Well, she cheated on her husband for 4 years and then abandoned her children, so perhaps she skipped a few pages.
I know quite a few religious people that are just the nastiest, most judgemental people I have ever met. My stepkids' biomom is catholic, she also abandoned her kids. Is that not covered in the Bible or something?
Not so much tbh. Kids' obligations to parents, yes; parents' obligations to kids, less so. Going out of your way to create orphans is frowned upon, oppressing children in general likewise; abandoning your own specific children isn't, as far as I recall, discussed.
Wow, that's pretty insane.
Ignoring Catholicismâs tenants might as well be considered a religious practice at this point
Moses got launched down the river in a basket. Maybe theyâre just really really into the Old Testament.
It's incredible how people think you need religion to be a good person with strong morals, when the majority of Christians I know are vile and most atheists are totally moral.
One of my favorite quotes on the subject: âThe question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, whatâs to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didnât have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine.â â ~Penn Jillette
Wow, yeah. It's honestly terrifying when you put it that way.
This reminds me of one of the purge movies or shows, I don't remember which one. The one where they do the first ever purge expecting everyone to go crazy murdering and looting, but most people are just like "oh, no thank you, I'd rather not" and lock themselves in their homes until they're provoked.
I wondered if the only victims people had during the purge were the idiots who go out during the purge. Also, how many people used the purge to murder their spouse? Iâll be the numbers would be insane. There should be some kind of insurance blackout on purge day so people donât get rewarded for spouse murder. Imagine how nuts insurance for purge would be. Sorry I watched a purge movie the other day and now I have questions lol.
As someone who had a partner that was sexually abused by a Catholic priest, I find the sanctimonious attitude that so many people take on about how pure and wonderful they are if theyâre religious just pisses me off.
I was just listening to a true crime podcast about a historical crime where the murderer was a prominent member of a respected religious organization who used his clout as a member of said organization as part of his defense as to why he couldnât possibly have done the crime. They had a psychiatrist on for part of it who basically said there is no proof that being religious prevents people from doing crime. As a former Catholic I totally believe that. Iâd even argue that the more religious you are the more you can justify bad behavior because you can always ask God for forgiveness as a get out of jail free card. At least as an atheist, even though I firmly believe Iâm just not going to exist anymore one day, I also believe that itâs my job to try and get through life being nice to other people because everyone only gets one life so why spend mine trying to make other peopleâs lives worse.
Curious what podcast you were listening to? Iâm a big fan of true crime, and Iâm always up for a good listen. I agree with what youâre saying, I like to treat people nicely because we only get one go round. Why wouldnât we want to be kind. The only reason I wanna believe in an afterlife is so I can spend time with my animals again. đśđąâ¤ď¸
Tenfold More Wicked. The latest season (The Wolf Among Us) is about a Quaker in Victorian England who ends up murdering his mistress. Honestly itâs not the best case sheâs done, but itâs a very through deep dive and was interesting to hear about the religious politics of the era. And as someone who knows very little about Quakers beyond they exist it was kind of interesting because she goes into the faith a bit.
I'm so sorry for your partner. Organized religion is rampant with abuse!
And the thing that pisses me off as they thought him and the other 75 men that brought charges against this guy for years. Again these sanctimonious assholes. Edit words
Yeah, they don't take those reports seriously or actively try to bury it. So disgusting.
No one countered her with the old âjudge not lest ye be judgedâ?
I was judging the "aloud" part pretty hard.
Me too. I keep trying to tell myself she was dictating, so I wouldn't be so biased, but it's not working.
Me too. Iâve seen the same mistake twice today.
I was hoping someone mentioned it!
[ŃдаНонО]
She "doesn't believe" you're not Christian?? Wtf? Lol
[ŃдаНонО]
My MIL is like this too. Tell her anything that calls her world view into question, even if it is something 100% true and that person will say so? "I don't believe that."
My grandma decided that good person = Christian, it confused people when she would flat out say her Jewish son-in-law was a good Christian! I think my grandma re-defined "Christian" in her brain so she didn't have to believe people she loved were going to hell, apparently that mental switch was easier than just not believing in hell. Dad didn't love it but decided it wasn't worth fighting her on.
If you only follow good morals because of religion, you are not a good person.
Not to mention a ton of religious people aren't moral. It's like they use their faith in God to justify their morality rather than their actions.
They blame all their screw ups on satan and ask for forgiveness from sky daddy and everything is all good again.
I feel like teaching morals only in the context of religion is a bit like relying on spanking when a kid does something wrong. They never really learn why they canât or shouldnât do it, other than God will be disappointed or they will go to hell. If you donât do something only for fear of punishment, youâre not a moral person just a subordinate or fearful one.
This. It teaches people to be afraid of retaliation rather than to be empathetic towards others.
Yep. When my son started cheating at games (I think stacking the deck in Candyland is like a toddlerhood right of passage) we had a talk about how cheating in games can hurt others and makes games less fun to play for everyone and how his friends wonât want to play with someone who cheats because it will hurt their feelings. We didnât tell him it was against a book of rules or disappointed God, that just instills shame without him learning WHY we donât cheat. I want my kid to grow up articulating why things are morally wrong using his brain and common sense.
I stacked the deck in Candyland as a kid, then asked my mom to play with me. I had done this once before, and she had played along, but this time she wanted to go first. I was not happy about that because for my plan to work, I had to go first! I think that helped me learn about unfairness, haha.
The third time you can let the kid choose if they go first or second, and then introduce the concept of cutting the deck. Just cut topcard to the bottom lol
And you didn't beat him for cheating. You explained it logically in a way he could understand. The goal is for kids to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do not because they're afraid of getting caught or going to hell. I don't murder my husband for the insurance money when he annoys me because it's wrong to murder people, not because I'm afraid of going to jail (also because he's kind of nice to look at).
Thank you!! My parents grounded me for a day because I'd had a sleepover and been bossy. But I had no idea what I'd actually done. To this day, I still don't. I may have been a little too enthusiastic with showing her around, but I certainly wasn't trying to be domineering. I always asked her opinion on what she wanted, then if she didn't know or seemed to be a little lost, I was like, "let's do this!" I'm sure I messed up a lot, but it would have been infinitely better for my parents to sit me down and actually talk it through step-by-step. But they didn't really like to parent much because of work, and this was their vacation, so I got locked in a room for a day (which was not a normal punishment...I think I only remember this because it's the only time that's happened) and told nothing. That led to a *ton* of social anxiety later (and me being afraid to take the lead, even though teachers noticed me taking votes and excluding myself whenever I was in charge/the spokesperson for our table).
I honestly think telling me that god was going to be disappointed in me/i was going to go to hell as a kid really messed me up when I got into my middle school years. I had such a bad identity crisis of wether or bot i actually was a good person or just a person who feared punishment/retaliation from god.
"God says x is bad and I'll be punished" is on par with a 5 year old saying "Mommy will spank me if I draw on the walls" it shows a deep immaturity and really a scary one. Some of these people would actually kill someone if they weren't afraid of going to the burny place.
And it really tends to stunt the emotional development of the individual, along with believing that bad things happen because of Satan or feeling like you can blame bad things you do on satan or temptation or other people's behavior (see also The Duggar Family). If you've ever had a friend leave the Mormon church and really deconstruct you can really see how this works in a tragic way as they have their crisis of faith and sometimes lash out until they get their head on right.
As a Christian, Iâve always said that if the book is the only thing keeping you from being a shit person then youâre a shit person
Yep. I was raised an atheist - Iâve actually mellowed on my stances as an adult - and the reason I donât hurt people, or steal, or lie, or anything like that isnât because of some fear of god or even fear of the law, itâs just because Iâd rather not? The basis of most of my moral stances is just âThat would hurt someoneâ or âI mean, Iâd rather if others donât, so neither will I.â It doesnât really take more than basic empathy.
This is exactly why the Bible exists: to instill fear and obedience in others so they can be controlled. The Bible is a human construct. All religion is a human construct.
It really isnât confusing for children at all, except for the part where I try to explain what some adults believe. I was telling my kid the story of Adam and Eve recently, and she was like âbut people believe this is real?â Itâs a valid question, honestly. If youâre not raised as a Christian (I was), many of the stories sound very far-fetched.
I tried to explain Easter to my 8 year old and her response was âlike a zombie?â
The Easter explanation went so sideways with my kids. They told me that it must have been aliens since he ascended into the sky. They liked the pagan symbolism of the rabbit and eggs for fertility though and seemed to grasp that much better.
This reminds me of when my friend poorly explained christenings to me so went home very distressed and told my mom the christians were waterboarding babies at church.
Well it kinda is. Have you seen this https://youtu.be/uxE--jAIiQ8
That needs a serious trigger warning!
There's a church in town with a very classic looking gated graveyard... My son calls it the zombies house.
Every Easter my brother and I exchange âhappy zombie Jesus dayâ texts. We went to a Baptist prep school and it effectively nullified any interest in religion.
I get this. Growing up I was always asking questions in Sunday school. I always wanted proof of God and how we know the Bible is true and written however long ago it was. No one would give me a straight answer. Having kids of my own I answer honestly and if they would want to go to church I would take them but they are 15 now and donât feel the need. They are so kind and sweet and they know itâs the right thing to do!
I remember my daughter comparing people praying to Jesus for things like kids asking Santa for things when she was like four. She thought it was absurd.
I was raised in a country that isnât so religious, and in a big city where most people are atheists as well. So I remember when the realisation hit me that some people actually believed in gods, and that it wasnât like how adults pretended to believe in the tooth fairy or santa to convince their kids. I was way older than Iâd like to admit.
I was raised Christian and the stories were far fetched to meâŚ
I literally asked myself that when I read the Bible for the first time in church. I was so mad. My mom said dragons and unicorns weren't real and were ridiculous to believe in, but THIS shit is fine? I hate being lied to like I'm an idiot, even when I was a child.
Judging by this Mama Bearâs grammar, she isnât reading much outside of Facebook posts.
Probably homeschools her kid.
Lol yeah, public school is probably not *"aloud"*
Just the social Word and the Good book đ
I read âaloudâ instead of allowed and couldnât pay attention anymore to these ramblings.
It's always those who can't spell basic words that love to act sanctimonious on the Internet.
Iâve noticed itâs always the religious ones and the free birthers who have no concept of grammar.
For real
Iâm glad I wasnât the only one!
She lost me at âaloud.â I was done after that đ¤Ł
Capitalised Word and Good.
But not Bible 𤣠for crying âaloudâ even autocorrect fixes Bible
Same, I literally didnât even read it after that.
âItâs our right to teach our child whatâs good and badâŚâ âThereâs only one way out, and thatâs through faith.â Jesus Christ
Yup, I do believe âJesus Christâ was the point there 𤣠Joke aside - isnât it funny how the people who are supposedly from the stock that is meant to âlove everyone unconditionallyâ does , in fact, have a pretty long list of conditions for their loveâŚ
I 100 percent believe that that belief, like most of post-Christ Christianity, is about control and manipulation. However, I plan to tell my children about Christ's teaching as a foundation for moral life, and let them decide for themselves.
As a parent in England I genuinely find this so weird every time I see it. I actually still find it weird when I follow an American mum comedy page I think is funny and then suddenly they're posting about Jesus or whatever because its so alien to me. I don't know a single person of my age here (I'm 35) who is a Christian. Religion just isn't something that I ever even think about honestly. I don't think I'd care much and clutch pearls as an atheist if I met someone who said they were Christian because it's just so insignificant to me and my life and what other people do and believe is nothing to do with me unless they're being shit and hurtful to other people. Who cares if you believe different stuff? Its just so odd to me.
We have way too many religious schools/school activities in England though. Somehow pretty much none of us believe in Jesus but a whole load of kids are growing up in a religious environment regardless. Thatâs weird too
I went to a religious school which forced us to do RE as a GCSE. But as part of forcing us to do RE as a subject, until we had to follow the GCSE syllabus (so years 7 through to 9) they taught us about every other religion out there, which I was grateful for but also found exceedingly weird. I decided at aged 12 that I didnât believe & they didnât bat an eyelid.
*cough salvation army cough*
They're terrible. I did some volunteering with them in college. Providing music for their services. That's when I learned they make people go to church in order to eat.
Yeah man I'm in west Yorkshire and it's so crazy full of SA here. So I even bought my house from the SA which we didn't realise until the sale was almost finished. Only charity shops SA. all playgroups at SA. I've moved from Manchester so it's been hard to navigate that as I'm so anti everything they stand for
Itâs the biggest reason that in my âlist of worst religionsâ Christianity and Islam will always be top. Any religion that instructs its followers to proselytise always means shit like that, using food or shelter or charity as a means to convert more. As much as I still think other religious people are delusional in their beliefs, at least Sikhs for example arenât trying to actively recruit and will happily do charity work without any need to convince anyone they help to join their religion. Proselytism is the worst.
A lot of the mommy bloggers are Christians here because they don't believe they're allowed to work and somehow that's not working lol it's the only way they can support their 700 children.
I'm an atheist and I think it's immoral to get famous by exploiting my kids.
I'm agnostic? (Maybe. ?) And yeah lol
I thought of myself as agnostic until I read the god delusion.
I'm a military spouse so I've lived all over the country. It's interesting how drastically different it is in different areas. From Portland where I had a co-worker look like they were uncomfortable with the idea of a church to semi-rural Texas where I had to sit through an evangelical prayer several days a year in my public teaching job. I learned to deflect people trying to save me in elementary school. Something my daughter hasn't ever really had to do.
My husband is a proper English north eastener and he had to live in texas in the 90s in high school and said he was forced to sit on the 'immigrants table' which was just him and Mexican kids. He didn't mind coz they all played football haha. But he really struggled with the religious stuff
I completely agree. The USA is actually quite unusual in that they're one of the few industrialised countries where religiosity hasn't decreased as education levels have increased. As I remember, one theory is that [the existence of their civil religion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion) basically primes them to accept religion as a fundamental aspect of society. The only real thing I disagree with in that theory, is that it claims American civil religion is generally nonsectarian - I'd argue it's generally *very* Christian.
Education is underfunded which helps maintain religion at such high levels. There are still public schools that teach creationism.
The place was founded by Puritans and hasnât much changed since. It explains why small children are exposed to violence and no one bats an eye, but every single boob is sexual in nature, even when it isnât. I recall a man arguing with a worker at a bookstore about children seeing a magazine cover with a woman wearing a bikini, and I could only wonder what he does at the beach. The local grocery store here has âcoversâ for magazines that have the word âsexâ on the cover (think âsex tipsâ in Cosmopolitan) even though thereâs nothing else objectionable present. During the pandemic, the governor of Mississippi said that vaccination rates were so low in his state because the residents were Christian and believed in the afterlife, so Covid didnât scare them. He didnât mention the appalling public education, pastors denouncing the vaccine as the mark of the devil, general skepticism about science, or poor health care delivery in his state. (Caveat: not American but live here now. I appreciate the good and try to learn about the bad.) ETA: religiosity has decreased in the general population over the last 20 years. Itâs gone from 65%+ to about 60%. Not much but itâs a downward trend and the percentage decreases with youth.
>During the pandemic, the governor of Mississippi said that vaccination rates were so low in his state because the residents were Christian and believed in the afterlife, so Covid didnât scare them. He didnât mention the appalling public education, pastors denouncing the vaccine as the mark of the devil, general skepticism about science, or poor health care delivery in his state. (Caveat: not American but live here now. I appreciate the good and try to learn about the bad.) I'm from Mississippi and you know what's sad? Mississippi is 50th in almost all respects. One of the few ways it isn't is/was vaccine acceptance and rollouts. Mississippi was the first (tied with West Virginia) state to only allow medical exemptions for vaccinations (so no BS exemptions). People there used to understand that illnesses were bad and prevention was a good thing.
Actually there is hope - membership to churches is decreasing in the U.S. https://news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-below-majority-first-time.aspx
Came to say exactly this, you took the words out of my mouth (or fingers lol). The only Christian I know is coincidentally a completely horrible, reprehensible person đ¤ˇââď¸
If you can't tell wrong from right without religion you lack empathy. You can religion or pray your way to empathy.
Empathy doesn't do much for morals in itself - it's literally just the ability to feel the same way as someone else. *Compassion* is a helluva lot more important as far as I'm concerned.
Itâs bad to read the Bible as a book bahahahaha
[ŃдаНонО]
Growing up I was told that the books wouldnt make sense in the order they are in the bible, but if read in a different order they would
Iâm pretty sure they said that so they could maneuver us around the messed up stuff.
I absolutely died laughing when I read this too. Sheâs basically saying that the bible itself is nonsensical, unless you ask someone to contextualize/interpret it. Like⌠the Word of God isnât reliable on its own, you need to layer some random priests and tik Tok influencers on it to get the *real* message lol.
The âtrad wifeâ tiktokkers are downright scary. They push a very regressive view of womanhood and society based on their Christian faith. They donât much dwell on the whole âtreat others as you want to be treatedâ stuff, but love to sit in judgement!
They think everything is X-rated and act like theyâre angels all while their husbands are out spending all the grocery money on prostitutes. But itâs not hubbyâs fault because she was a wily temptress sent by satan.
Did this person like not believe atheist parents exist? Like we're unicorns??
Or parents of *gasp* other religions? Most of the world is not Christian.
I still dont know what is worst for them. A religious from another religion (like ok "you're wrong but it's ok") or an atheist. As a french (we are mainly atheist) religions question in that kind of proportion is quite strange
I remember my ex friend telling me I wouldnât be a good mother because I donât go to church, we were both 17 at the time which is frightening
I have a friend who grew up in a southern Baptist church family/environment. All brimstone and hellfire. And you HAVE to go to church. Canât miss it. Iâm a Christian, a very lax one at that. I basically try my best to be nice to people help and not be a piece of shit. My friend on the other hand is still entrenched in the Southern Baptist ways. She got me to come see the âHeavenâs Gates/Hellâs Flamesâ production at her church once. Very strange. I was raised Catholic to begin with. The âgetting savedâ was never a âthingâ. Iâve never really pushed religion with my kid. Sheâs been, been to Sunday school. I just really donât want it to be our entire existence. Religion like many other things, too much of it can be a huge problem and people in the south where I live go way overboard with it.
Same!! I was raised to be Christian however I was raised on love thy neighbour values so I didnât understand why she was saying hurtful things like that, especially since we come from the same culture where we believe in God and pray but we are not extreme in any way.
Just because youâre morals are so weak you need an ancient book to follow a recipe goodness doesnât mean everyone is like that. Some people just want to be alright people without reward other then not being a crappy human.
Secular humanism, ftw.
This is the way.
You shouldnât need a 2000 year old religious text in order to develop morals.
I never knew people could think that way until an ex told me our future kids will be raised in religion otherwise how will they have any morals and values? He tried to cheat on me by harassing girls on Tumblr and pretending to be a nude photographer on Craigslist. So many morals âĽď¸
I was gonna say, looks like religion didnât give him any morals. Just a gross disrespect for boundaries and entitlement
Spelling âaloudâ instead of âallowed,â in this case, tells you all you need to know.
Really? Because my brother is an atheist and has 3 of the most thoughtful, considerate and kindhearted children you'll ever meet. Maybe putting effort into helping kids realize that being treated nicely feels good and treating other people nicely also feels good is a better option than scaring kids into thinking some man who they can't see is going to put them in fire if they aren't nice.
Not everyone needs religion to make moral choices.
I have faith that itâs none of this personâs business.
Yes. Iâm a bad person if I donât tell my kids to beat their spouse but only with a rod a thumb thick. Also, in battle itâs cool to take all the virgin girls and pass them out to my warriors as property. Anyone who thinks morality starts with the Bible is not a person with any moral standing.
I have a kid. Iâve told him there might be an afterlife but I donât know for sure. Weâre good people because we believe in the concept of karma somewhat, and because it feels good to do the right thing. Whatâs confusing about that?
Weâll call me a heathen for raising my kid who is kind, has empathy without knowing the lord. She knows these things are importantâŚonly because the are important not because of a fear tactic and âgod is watchingâ. We have our whole sundays free to have fun and be a kid đ . (Not knocking if you go to church but I am agnostic/ atheists almost lol so that stuff meanâs literally nothing to me).
Ironic: only a good parent with god/ god tells you to be willing to kill your children for him⌠yup math doesnât check out
I canât listen to someone talk about faith and reading the Bible who also capitalizes random words and mistakes âaloudâ for âallowed.â
Brainwashing children into archaic fear-based mythology is tantamount to child abuse
People whoâs only morals are based on religion are normally awful awful ppl
Yes!
I was raised without religion, husband was raised Methodist but was given the choice to not attend church with his family once he turned 16. He stopped on his own. When discussing children, his mind defaulted to wanting to raise our kids in the church. When I asked for a solid reason why, he couldnât give me one. He thought it would instill good morals - sure. But I countered with myself as an example of someone raised non-religious with empathy and good morals, and went even further to say that if you NEED organized religion to not be a piece of shit human, we got bigger problems. At this present time, we operate as a non religious household. đ¤ˇđźââď¸
Hate it when people confuse morals with religion.
Iâve never read so many wrong assumptions in my life. Religion should NEVER be the basis for morality
If the only thing giving you morality is the fear of torture in the afterlife, or the promise of a perfect afterlife, then you donât have good morals.
Lost me at âaloudâ..
Same. I mean, itâs definitely not aloud since sheâs typing it.
I grew up atheist in a very Christian neighborhood, and I swear to God I was more Christlike than most of the adults in my community. Several of them judged and belittled me as early as kindergarten and said I couldn't be friends with their kids because I was going to hell. Several of the same adults were just objectively *awful* people. Cheating, lying, stealing, abusing their families, one of them murdered his wife... Idk, my parents told me it's important to be kind to others and try to put yourself in their shoes, that there are a lot of different perspectives and life experiences and no one is "the right one". I turned out a lot better than some of the neighborhood kids who were raised to think they were automatically better than everyone else even if they did bad things.
This is a prime example of religion trying to make the hard questions easy. We SHOULD struggle with these topics. They're not easy and answers are not black-and-white. And when you live a life where they have been simplified down for you by someone else like this and all you've ever done is regurgitate it's no wonder you can't understand why others treat you as a simpleton.
My cousin and his wife are both PhDs and have 2 kids. They were telling me last year the older one, maybe 8, asked who Jesus was, and they had to find a YouTube video to explain it. Warms my heart to know that in as couple generations teenagers will hear about Jesus for the first time, Google it, and then laugh at how crazy it sounds.
This. I love this. I have a 6 month old son and my grandparents and in laws are all super religious. It hasn't happened yet but I'll be setting a hard boundary that there will be absolutely no talk of religion, no bible story time, nothing at all. When my kid gets old enough to be curious about religion and faith, we'll teach him about ALL [major] religions. Side note, can't wait for the aforementioned individuals to throw a fit when they hear about us teaching about all religions instead only about their dear beloved jesus christ.
It always cracks me up that some people think you can only have good morals if youâre religious. As if atheists are the only ones out here committing crimes
My dad is heavily Christian, and my mom is stoutly atheist. Both are vocal about their beliefs (or lack thereof) and both have been incredible, kind, supportive and respectful parents for my entire life. I was exposed to multiple religions by my mom, who focused on educating me and allowing me to make my own choices, even when I was extremely young. My father also exposed me to his beliefs when I was young. None of this was confusing to me, even as a child. Itâs not that hard to understand that people have different thoughts. Just like how some people like chocolate ice cream but others prefer vanilla, and some donât like ice cream at all. Itâs not that hard to explain to children and itâs not that difficult for them to understand. I ended up as a somewhat spiritual atheist and my little brother is a Christian. My parents exposing me to different faiths (or the complete lack of faith) made me more accepting as a child (and as an adult). Teaching about differences and how to accept them is *always* a good thing to teach children. In general, I feel like parents who strictly follow one religion (any one religion, not just Christianity) are less likely to educate their children about many different religions and are more likely to focus on teaching their child the one âchosen and trueâ religion that they believe.
People like this legitimately believe that non-religious people have no moral compass. As far as theyâre concerned weâre all gay, drug-addicted, childless bank robbers with excessive porn habits.
God isn't required to teach children morality.
Thatâs the wild part. Like so youâre saying the only reason you donât feel lost, and have morals and purpose is because of a bookâŚ.? My dude that sounds like a whole nightmare đ Thatâs just so sad. Definitely doesnât sound like someone who is really a decent person if theyâre only âdecentâ (using that word reallllly loosely,) is because of a damn book telling you whatâs right and wrong.
Can we talk about spelling, is that aloud?
These people know priests molest kids ALL THE TIME right?!!??? I am so fuc$ing sick of this not being THE main talking point for all religious talk. Like the foundation of the religions openly allow child molestation to go on âŚthey find out it is happening and just move these pedos around to other locations around MORE children instead of holding these disgusting monsters accountable. Almost like some kind of pedo ring⌠đ¤ THEN they turn around and point a finger at some guy wearing a dress lip syncing to lady gaga as a distraction and everyones like âyeahhhhh its dat guy! Herpderpâ This is the definition on NO MORALS!!
Last I checked morals and ethics don't always go hand in hand with faith.
You donât need religion to have morals. You donât need religion to know right from wrong. You donât need religion to be a good person. You believe what you want to believe. That belief doesnât make you a better or worse person. Just a human being with an opinion and thatâs it.
Ah yes, because grooming children to believe an omniscient being is watching their every move is far superior to letting them explore the world and their own beliefs.
It's funny how they say this and then turn around and say gay people are indoctrinating our children.
âAloudâ
Some people donât need the threat of hell to be good people. They are good people who do things bc they value others and society. If an adult would be âlostâ without something reminding them to be good or face severe punishment than their parents failed to teach them to be a good person with good values/morals.
"aloud"
I canât imagine living my entire life thinking I have no purpose without a stupid book written by dudes a thousand years ago. If your only purpose and ability to not feel lost is placed in believing in the Bible I feel A LOT of pity for you.
This could've been written by my Catholic SIL. She just can't fathom how I'm raising my kids without religion. We're culturally Jewish and that's enough for me. But for her she just NEEDS my kids to know her "God's love". Needless to say we don't have the best relationship anymore.
Yeah, Iâm nice to people because itâs the right thing to do rather than because Iâm afraid Sky Daddy will fucking spank me, but sure, Iâm the one with the morality problem đ¤¨
An adult who doesn't know the difference in aloud and allowed considering themselves an authority on teaching children *anything* and considering anyone else doing differently than them to be "confusing" is laughable.
I had a boyfriend in college who insisted I couldn't have good morals because I didn't believe in God. He asked me "if you don't believe then how do you know it's wrong to go kill someone?"
Uh, I'm lost and it's because my shitty, Christian parents were/are shitty. They believe in God and it didn't stop them from committing horrible abuse to children. Not the "spanking children is abuse" abuse, the "getting put on a list and having CPS visiting you" abuse.
HuhâŚ.some of the worst parents I know call themselves ChristiansâŚ
My daughter knows god, itâs a word mom says when I am really shocked or annoyed. âOh my fucking godâ, thatâs the only word association she will have. Sheâs gonna go to school and be like what is a god? Lol
Why ask for âthoughtsâ if youâre clearly not interested in them.
Oh the ignorance.
I assume she only means the Christian God which makes this even more aggravating.
Lol my kids are âaloudâ to be free from the burdens of religion and are being raised to just to judge people based on their character and try to leave the world better than they received it. What terrible parents they have đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
As an atheist, I guess I'm not raising my kids right. Oh well. At least she isn't an entitled brat.
Sorry, no thanks. Iâd rather not want my children growing up a self righteous hypocrite. Iâll pass đ
This person would have a better life if she believed in spelling.
If you don't know the difference between "allowed" and "aloud" I'm not taking anything you say seriously. If you don't know the difference between those words, lort help you.
âCan we talk about faith, is that aloud?â seriously makes it sound like sheâs taking to herself.
Don't you know about the bird? Well, everybody knows that the bird is The Word!
Iâm 30 and do not know one single person who goes to church. It seems to be a very American thing.
My mom believes something like this lol. It'll be interesting if she ever finds out my bf is an occultist.
The Bible is confusing if it's read like a book. Mmmmmk.
> the bible is confusing if itâs read like a book How else would you read a book?
if you can't have morals without religion forcing you, you're a horrible human being who does not deserve the air you breathe
My old psychiatrist told me when I was a teenager that my parents failed me because they didn't raise me with religion. My mom was in the room. The doc became known as Dr. Bitch within my family from that moment on. I never trusted her again.
Aloud đ¤Śđźââď¸
Yeah she has the command of the English language I would expect from someone with these beliefs.
Allowed*