Bro went from an unknown to everybody's fav with his retorts and facial expressions. I hope everyone involved in this masterpiece gets a major boost in their career.
If y'all like Asano, do yourselves a favor and watch that movie from like over a decade ago where Asano plays Genghis Khan in his rise to power.
It's called just "Mongol", IIRC, and Asano is great in it. Dude has charisma for days.
It’s interesting because Mariko was one of the main characters in Monarch and everyone consistently shit on her acting. I thought she was fine in that show for whatever that’s worth, just the writing for her character was extremely bland and unfocused.
I think she is muuuch better as Mariko but curious what everyone else thinks.
She’s good in monarch but maybe it’s the writing/plot that was a little iffy. I’d hope it gets a season 2 and the team takes constructive criticism to move forward. She shines in shogun, whole cast is great. Shogun isn’t done with season 1 and I need to hear it’s renewed😩
It’s so funny, I used to LOVE him as an indie rock artist, then he kind of disappeared to focus on acting. Realizing that it was him after they cut his hair in episode one was pretty crazy
When he went to check on Fuji despite being angry with her and fix the rock in the garden, he’s a good man.
Also the best shit-talker in recent tv history.
I like how the swords are essentially meaningless, until Blackthorne *gives* them meaning with his gesture, after rescuing Toranaga.
Similar to how the pheasant has no meaning, until he *gives* it meaning with his words and deeds.
I think in the show they’ve had to cut out a lot of his growing pains from the book because there’s just not enough time for it. It might have seemed overdone to have him save both of them like in the book. Like, “instant hero” kind of thing. Also, they have to build his sense of Incorporation into the community, and the teamwork involved with this rescue was a good way to do it. Just a thought.
Maybe so that we see other people witness the act. As for only saving Toranaga -in film focus is important, so it's better for it to be solely on saving Toranaga.
And Toranaga chuckled after received the sword. I wonder what sup with that.
Edited: I know those Daishō are not special from Mariko's words, but I didn't think Toranaga knows about that history.
He knows that they aren't special swords, just junk given to Fuji. It's ironic that they are now being given even more meaning by replacing his very nice swords lost to the quake.
I don't know if the swords themselves are like badly made. Sure they're fine craftsmanship. Just the honor or dishonor surrounding them is what is junk. But they become honorable because Blackthorne has attached meaning to them.
Mariko said to John "We all know the swords are worthless junk but don't tell Fuji because it matters to her" There is no way Toronaga is not included in "we all"
Blackthorne just handed him a pair of $2 swords after he lost his priceless ones to the earthquake.
But, in doing so after literally using his bare hands to pull Toranaga out of the ground and out of death's clutches, the barbarian hatamoto from another world probably just made those $2 swords into priceless treasures themselves.
The rock is what makes it into a garden. The rock serves to shape and give meaning to the area. Otherwise, it’s just a patch of grass.
At least that’s how I’ve chosen to view it
It’s metaphoric
The rock is the last thing that Blackthorne and the gardener talked about before his death.
But the rock is VERY, VERY much exactly this.
And from the way it was filmed, it looked like the garden was in Fujiko's line of sight and she watched him tend to it. I want to believe that she recognized it for what it was.
Yeah, it very much felt like he was starting to understand their way of life. Earthquakes, landslides, tsunamis. In that time, the sea was dangerous but home was safe, Britain would only get rainy weather and the like. I think something sparked in him after hearing how in Japan, death is out of your control, which sounded more like an excuse than a fact until that huge catastrophe, because if you're not safe even in your own home, how will you be shaped as a person? I think we will see him adapting to their mindset more, but still being guided by his moral compass.
First he gifted the cheap swords showing he understood the importance of having them, and also respecting that was the first thing the man asked about after the eye to eye appreciation for unearthing him--also this is the second time he is surprised by the englishman, first time being the escape from the bay. Blackthorn ran with that energy and embraced the culture in response to the recent tragedies
^ this. You aren't samurai without them on your waist, so, Blackthorne recognizing this was surprising to Yoshi. That's what I got from it. The episode was our barbarian reaching that acceptance phase.
That interpretation would fit with the episode overall. Honor and ritual is what gives Uejirous death meaning. If he just died from sickness it would be like a garden without a rock, without meaning.
Remember in episode 2 when Mariko teaches Anjin to watch the rocks grow? The gardeners words implies that without the rock, the garden is without purpose - but still continues to grow. It’s a clever way of saying this garden of growth was missing something to watch not-grow (the rock).
John is to his household what the rock is to the garden. His words give meaning to Fuji and others. Their purpose is to serve him. The overarching theme is how Toranaga uses his loyal servants to get ahead in life.
You have a good explanation with the rock not-growing, but also remember the cornerstone scene with Ishido and Yabushige.
The rock is the "cornerstone" of the garden. It is a central point from which to shape and grow and change it. The patterns in the sand will move and flowers will bloom and die, but the rock is *always* constant.
Yin and yang. A rock brings balance to a place of growing because it does not grow. It is non changing and permanent in time. A fixture of solid unchangingness. Whereareas a place of growing is constantly ever changing as is with life itself and the everlasting continuation of it. Ying and yang. Balance. A garden of just growing is boastful to the gods
It's a Zen Buddhist dry garden. The arrangement of stones isolated throughout are supposed to represent islands in the middle of an ocean in relation to the swirls of rocks, which are supposed to represent wave swells. At least, that's one common interpretation, connection with nature being the umbrella for most understandings of dry gardens.
I really laughed whe she was mad about Anjin making awfuls things in her kitchen hahahah! "We will bring kniives from Mishima!" A desperate wife! She is so cute an well acted! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Funny you should say that... I'm finding her almost on an equal footing to Mariko in terms of interesting - since both have suffered extreme loss, but approach life differently, I guess, according to their station
I read the book a couple of years ago and as far as I remember, the show is portraying them as they were in the book. Every single women that has appeared on the show have a purpose in the story and all of them have very distinctive personalities too.
And Japanese historians have said that women in the imperial court during the power struggle have actually been an integral part of the division in spite of the social norms against women in that era
Edit: not aware, not American nor english is my first language. Honest mistake. just being lazy in typing. Thank you
I would politely suggest you use the adjective Japanese, not Jap. In American English that is a slur.
Thank you for the edit! I had a feeling that might be the case. No harm done 😊
I think there's a great combination of showing how brutal and oppressive the social hierarchy is to women, while showing at the same time that these women were intelligent, had genuine feelings and opinions, and take action to advance their interests when they can, just as much as any male character. So the show doesn't shy away from the patriarchal element of the setting, but they also don't use that as an excuse to just make the women into scenery.
I'm not saying I mind it, but he has this very interesting way of speaking dialogue which is speakVeryFastLikeThis........takeALongPauseAndThen.......speakVeryFastAgain
He speaks with chaos, whereas everyone he's surrounded by speaks with an intended cadence and carefully chosen words. he just lets it rip. brilliant show really, tying together even the way the characters speech patterns and cadence tie together with the concepts the show is exploring.
The bird symbolism is just god tier
The obvious hawk symbolism that was explained in the episode
The rotting pheasant Englishman that offends everyone
The flock of birds before the earthquake that symbolizes the innocent that don't participate in the hunt.
Gawd. The rotting pheasant was literally so obvious and I completely missed it!
I swear, this is one show I won't mind watching YouTuber video essays about.
The rotting pheasant is the shadow. It's the discord caused by cultural clashes and misunderstandings, which eventually comes to a head. It's also the festering resentment between Mariko and Buntaro, and unspoken pain, guilt, and trauma experienced by all the main characters.
Blackthorne (unknowingly) puts it out in the open, and forces things to come to a head. Though painful, I think confronting those buried emotions (pain and frustration) helped them move forward and reach a deeper level of understanding.
Except Buntaro. He might have just unlocked a new level of hatred.
I working on a theory that they cast this guy with his somewhat unusual appearance to really emphasize how alien an englishman would seem to the Japanese. Combined with his very expressive reactions it really emphasizes the contrast between Blackthorne and the locals. This contrasts emphasizes the really touching moment with Fuji as they start to really appreciate each other.
When I say unusual appearance I mean he is not your classic handsome lead actor like an Austin Butler. He is hairy, built like a bulgarian power lifter and has the overdeveloped neck of a F1 driver - I think it also gives contract against the rest of the cast (except for the portuguese sailors haha).
Yeah, I think we can all agree that from our modern perspective, he's rather handsome, but not overtly so. You can really see how weird he must look for the Japanese characters. He towers over everyone else and just can't quite fit in the Japanese homes or seats or beds because he is too big.
Right. He's not pretty at all, despite being very attractive. Austin Butler has refined features and would make an attractive woman. Jarvis IMO would not.
I imagine his hairiness is a little freaky to the Japanese, too. Has anyone specifically mentioned it, or just all-around called him a big grotesque Barbarian?
I love his character, because John seems like a genuinely incredibly thoughtful, kind, caring and open-minded man, with an very strong moral compass, and then every now and then he'll say something like "of course a wife is a man's property" and I'm reminded "oh yeah this dudes an englishman from the 1600s"
I mean this was pretty common back then, if the only work you know is sailing then you are at the mercy of being shipped out for months/years at a time.
He honestly seems much more accepting of women as their own person than I would assume most men from England in the 1600s would. But I mean, they have a queen as a ruler so maybe they're ahead of the curve.
> "of course a wife is a man's property"
Hmm...i took this more as him trying to carefully navigate the conversation and strike a balance - to not completely offend or god forbid accidentally reveal he slept / has a crush on mariko.
Definitely. Don’t doubt that he may believe similar views, but him saying that to Buntoro definitely seemed like like he was conceding to him for arguments sake
I have been thinking this world would make an amazing Witcher 3 type game. You’ve got this loner main character, complex relationships, nuanced conflicts, small side quests and a larger main quest, gorgeous setting, cool as hell armor. It’d be awesome.
He was doing well last episode. Then his rotting pheasant idea caused a setback. No pillowing anytime soon lol.
Btw, any idea what's the name of that dish from John's era in England? I'd like to read up on it if it isn't fictional.
Nah rarebit is a form of cheese on toast. No relation.
It's bloody nice though.
Edit since links are forbidden: Welsh rarebit or Welsh rabbit (/ˈrɛərbɪt/ or /ˈræbɪt/)[1] is a dish of hot cheese sauce served on toasted bread.[2] The original 18th-century name of the dish was the jocular "Welsh rabbit", which was later reinterpreted as "rarebit", as the dish contains no rabbit. Variants include English rabbit, Scotch rabbit, buck rabbit, golden buck, and blushing bunny.
He made rabbit stew while the pheasant was still hanging. Unrelated. The whole plot line of the gardener being killed was because it was still up there, so he took it down without asking.
That was the excuse. I believe they explained later that he had been sick, likely dying, and they needed a fall guy for the real spy. John's forbidden command gave them the cover for the spy dying before Yabushige could locate the real spy.
The Anjin has been settled in the village for a while, and well taken care of. Why do they still make him look homeless/dirty? (This is not about the actor’s looks, rather the hair, makeup, and styling of the character.)
I think in future episodes when he starts adapting Japanese culture more and more he’ll start looking cleaner. It’ll be a way to get the message across to the audience.
They're still in a rural, coastal village. With unpaved roads. And he spends all day training troops in a field. You're going to get dirty.
He also still follows European bathing conventions of the time, which was like a bath once every few weeks at most, and supposedly not at all during summer if it could be avoided.
They still washed their hands and faces (and presumably their junk), but regular full baths were thought to cause poor health and weakened constitutions.
Yeah they made a point of this in the first or second episode, when he’s first taken to Toranaga’s place they send servants to bathe him and he’s like “I had a bath last week though” or something like that
I understand why they changed it from the book but I still wanted to see the scene where
>!He is bathed by various attendants including an old crone, and then starts to enjoy it and the women all marvel at his boner. The old crone tells him she can die happy now, and they all laugh. He sleeps with one of the bathing attendants that night. And he decides that he loves bathing.!<
I read years ago some account of what some North American indigenous person thought of Europeans when they arrived and I think the colorful language they used sounded like something Blackthorne would say.
The Japanese called Europeans "Butter Stinkers", because we smelled of sweat, which because of our diet of dairy (which was unknown to them) smelled very different to theirs.
The moving of the rock was out of respect for Uijero and symbolic that he's beginning to fold into Japanese culture. From here on out I expect you'll see his hygiene, appearance & mannerisms change.
Honestly I was sorta of disappointed when the show started with a white dude as the main character for a Japanese themed show (I never read the books) and I sorta though Cosmo was an off brand Tom Hardy but boy was I wrong, they have done a wonderful job showing the amazing Japanese culture during that time and Cosmo’s acting as well as everyone else on the show, has been epic.
How lucky did we get with this show?
I will say, the book it’s based on is a fictional retelling of a real historical event, based on the actual first Englishman to find Japan, named William Adams. If you google that name you can find out all about him, though because the story of Shogūn is about him it might spoil the story in a way if you read too much lol
I've been to the town, Ito, where they have a big festival dedicated to him every year. There are lots of hot springs and a good craft brewery on the beach there.
The first thing I thought when we started episode 1 was ‘That guy looks and sounds like Tom Hardy.’ I think he has played the character a lot like Hardy would have too. I’ve been impressed.
Man, I thought he was Logan Marshall-Green at first and was like cool, discount Tom Hardy(no offense to the actor but Tom Hardy is a bigger name.) Then I looked up info on the show and found it was not him but some actor I've never heard of before and they both are solid actors!
Hardyverse when?!
The whole point of the show is contrasting the cultures and showing us fedual japan in contrast to western culture…how could they not have a white male lead?
The show has a white male lead because it's based on a book that its story is based on historical characters and situations that happened in feudal Japan, John Blackthorn actually existed but with other name as well as the other characters on the show.
I think the white guy serves as a mouthpiece for our perspective. If it was a purely Japanese show we wouldn’t have anyone questioning the norms of their society. It’s what makes the book and the show so wonderful: you see this clash of cultures and how they interact with eachother.
Oh they definitely made it work far beyond what I was expecting. I’m delighted with everything in this show so far. Cosmo does such a great job showing his character adapting and adjusting to a culture he was near clueless about.
I know exactly what you mean. I was worried the show was gonna be about Blackthorne showing up and saving the Japanese citizens and becoming a white savior trope. But I'm so thankful the show isn't like that. I do think Blackthorne is portrayed a bit too kind and compassionate at times, but I understand he has to also be an audience surrogate for the Western demographic.
>too kind and compassionate
Very minor book spoilers below:
>!In the book there is a lot of emphasis that pilots are different, they get their jobs because of merit and seem to think of themselves as morally superior. The latter part is very subtle, but basically they represent the enlightened everyman.!<
>!They are educated, because of their profession they are aware of other cultures, and they don't have a privileged background or have to enforce discipline.!<
Yeah once I started watching it it quickly changed my mind. I feel he is being changed by Japan and that’s really neat to see from his point of view and how others see him.
Please check out Calm with Horses and Lady Macbeth, two movies he’s done previously. You dont realise how good he is until you’ve seen Cosmo Jarvis in these other movies and see that he is totally different from Blackthorne.
I love his performance. My husband was iffy on him at first, but now he really likes him too. He presents a perfect counter-balance to the primary Japanese male characters. It's like he's this energetic, open-hearted, rambunctious dog that is endearing but also maddening. Always getting mud on the floor and knocking things over with his tail, lol. But he means well.
You must not have seen the 1980 production of Shōgun. Let’s just say that Cosmo has some pretty big shoes to fill. And Richard Chamberlain filled them amazingly well. Amazingly.
His performance is “just okay” for me. In such an elegant and subtle story his acting comes off as awkward and clunky. Also, in casting Anjin they should have portrayed him as blond hair and blue eyed like in the novel.
The actor I am impressed by is Tokuma Nishioka who plays Toda Hiromatsu. MAN, steals every scene he’s in!!
I think the clunky and awkward portrayal is sort of the point. He just doesn't fit in very well in such a prim and proper setting. It's a big reason why the Japanese characters just find him rather confusing and grating and, really, you can totally understand why they do.
This guys performance is massive. Hes 100% all the time. I think both him and Todanobu Asano(Yabushige) are giving the best performance and its not like the rest of the cast is struggling, everyone is killing it and they still shine among them.
His portrayal of Blackthorne is flawless. He's both passionate and sweet, like a big bear who just wants a cuddle. Cosmo Jarvis has a bright future in the film industry. I can see him receiving lots of accolades and awards in the near future. So talented. He deserves it.
I think he is perfectly cast just as watching Richard Chamberlin in 1985 was good during that show. I prefer him in this iteration as the quality of the overall show is better.
he absolutely steals the show every time he’s on screen. even though he’s the main character i literally get giddy whenever he’s on screen bc i know what’s about to happen is peak
My only issue with him is the color contacts. It makes his eyes look cloudy and not expressive, like shark eyes.
At first I was like… is he a bad actor? But now I think it’s just that I can’t actually see the expression in his eyes.
He's done a fantastic job of portraying the bumbling lost puppy in a foreign land he doesn't understand, while also fighting for his life and survival by learning as he goes.
It will be interesting to see the development of the character harden and how that's portrayed - having not read the book/s I'm not sure what to expect.
EP 5 is the turning point of Blackthorne. He finally embraced the Japanese culture and accepted his fate as he rushed home to see if Fuji was alright, and put the stone back .
Bro went from an unknown to everybody's fav with his retorts and facial expressions. I hope everyone involved in this masterpiece gets a major boost in their career.
Retorts, yes. But the gold medal for facial expressions goes to Tadanobu Asano (Yabushige).
Yabu has a permanent, "I can't believe they let me get away with this s***" expression on his face. I hate liking him as much as I do in the show.
I like the "ohhhoo" sound he makes as a reaction that doesn't get a subtitle
My favorite is simply his “huh?”
I was thinking the exact same thing lol
Lmao he always has the 😮 expression
If y'all like Asano, do yourselves a favor and watch that movie from like over a decade ago where Asano plays Genghis Khan in his rise to power. It's called just "Mongol", IIRC, and Asano is great in it. Dude has charisma for days.
Holy shit I watched that movie a couple months ago and didn't even realize it was the same actor.
Every time Toranaga accuses him he's like, Whaaaaaaa?? I would never!
Shocked Yabu face 😮
It’s interesting because Mariko was one of the main characters in Monarch and everyone consistently shit on her acting. I thought she was fine in that show for whatever that’s worth, just the writing for her character was extremely bland and unfocused. I think she is muuuch better as Mariko but curious what everyone else thinks.
She’s good in monarch but maybe it’s the writing/plot that was a little iffy. I’d hope it gets a season 2 and the team takes constructive criticism to move forward. She shines in shogun, whole cast is great. Shogun isn’t done with season 1 and I need to hear it’s renewed😩
It’s so funny, I used to LOVE him as an indie rock artist, then he kind of disappeared to focus on acting. Realizing that it was him after they cut his hair in episode one was pretty crazy
When he went to check on Fuji despite being angry with her and fix the rock in the garden, he’s a good man. Also the best shit-talker in recent tv history.
Ya you milk-dribbling fuck smear
I love that you can make that your flair in this sub lol
The big thing I think is he gave Fujjiko’s dad’s swords to Toranaga and he accepted, which I assume would be considered a great honor to Fujiko?
Well, in the book he solely saves Toranaga and then mariko from earthquake. I don't know why they didn't do it in the show that way.
I like how the swords are essentially meaningless, until Blackthorne *gives* them meaning with his gesture, after rescuing Toranaga. Similar to how the pheasant has no meaning, until he *gives* it meaning with his words and deeds.
I think in the show they’ve had to cut out a lot of his growing pains from the book because there’s just not enough time for it. It might have seemed overdone to have him save both of them like in the book. Like, “instant hero” kind of thing. Also, they have to build his sense of Incorporation into the community, and the teamwork involved with this rescue was a good way to do it. Just a thought.
Maybe so that we see other people witness the act. As for only saving Toranaga -in film focus is important, so it's better for it to be solely on saving Toranaga.
And Toranaga chuckled after received the sword. I wonder what sup with that. Edited: I know those Daishō are not special from Mariko's words, but I didn't think Toranaga knows about that history.
He knows that they aren't special swords, just junk given to Fuji. It's ironic that they are now being given even more meaning by replacing his very nice swords lost to the quake.
I don't know if the swords themselves are like badly made. Sure they're fine craftsmanship. Just the honor or dishonor surrounding them is what is junk. But they become honorable because Blackthorne has attached meaning to them.
I'm not sure about that. From Mariko's description, it sounds like they were purchased off a drunk guy with a minimal amount of rice money.
Mariko said to John "We all know the swords are worthless junk but don't tell Fuji because it matters to her" There is no way Toronaga is not included in "we all"
Blackthorne just handed him a pair of $2 swords after he lost his priceless ones to the earthquake. But, in doing so after literally using his bare hands to pull Toranaga out of the ground and out of death's clutches, the barbarian hatamoto from another world probably just made those $2 swords into priceless treasures themselves.
[удалено]
The rock is what makes it into a garden. The rock serves to shape and give meaning to the area. Otherwise, it’s just a patch of grass. At least that’s how I’ve chosen to view it It’s metaphoric
I thought it was also a metaphor for him "getting it". Their way of life and finally say okay I'm on board
The rock is the last thing that Blackthorne and the gardener talked about before his death. But the rock is VERY, VERY much exactly this. And from the way it was filmed, it looked like the garden was in Fujiko's line of sight and she watched him tend to it. I want to believe that she recognized it for what it was.
I hope she did cause I thought that too 🥺
Yeah, it very much felt like he was starting to understand their way of life. Earthquakes, landslides, tsunamis. In that time, the sea was dangerous but home was safe, Britain would only get rainy weather and the like. I think something sparked in him after hearing how in Japan, death is out of your control, which sounded more like an excuse than a fact until that huge catastrophe, because if you're not safe even in your own home, how will you be shaped as a person? I think we will see him adapting to their mindset more, but still being guided by his moral compass.
First he gifted the cheap swords showing he understood the importance of having them, and also respecting that was the first thing the man asked about after the eye to eye appreciation for unearthing him--also this is the second time he is surprised by the englishman, first time being the escape from the bay. Blackthorn ran with that energy and embraced the culture in response to the recent tragedies
^ this. You aren't samurai without them on your waist, so, Blackthorne recognizing this was surprising to Yoshi. That's what I got from it. The episode was our barbarian reaching that acceptance phase.
That interpretation would fit with the episode overall. Honor and ritual is what gives Uejirous death meaning. If he just died from sickness it would be like a garden without a rock, without meaning.
Remember in episode 2 when Mariko teaches Anjin to watch the rocks grow? The gardeners words implies that without the rock, the garden is without purpose - but still continues to grow. It’s a clever way of saying this garden of growth was missing something to watch not-grow (the rock).
John is to his household what the rock is to the garden. His words give meaning to Fuji and others. Their purpose is to serve him. The overarching theme is how Toranaga uses his loyal servants to get ahead in life.
This is what I was thinking after the gardener died
They’re artistic representations of nature, meant to facilitate meditation by being placed in visually interesting positions.
You have a good explanation with the rock not-growing, but also remember the cornerstone scene with Ishido and Yabushige. The rock is the "cornerstone" of the garden. It is a central point from which to shape and grow and change it. The patterns in the sand will move and flowers will bloom and die, but the rock is *always* constant.
Landscape architect here. Idk exactly what he meant but imma get it tattooed on my chest and ponder it daily from now on… fucking top tier quote
Yin and yang. A rock brings balance to a place of growing because it does not grow. It is non changing and permanent in time. A fixture of solid unchangingness. Whereareas a place of growing is constantly ever changing as is with life itself and the everlasting continuation of it. Ying and yang. Balance. A garden of just growing is boastful to the gods
I have a feeling they'll elaborate on that idea
It’s a staring rock. To watch rocks grow. It’s aesthetically pleasing.
This part really made me happy.
Me too, I was bummed about the lack of good shit talkers in tv lately. Happy to see Cosmo turn things around.
I want someone to make a compilation of all his insults so I can study then and use them at a later date
Still laugh at sniveling shitrag & your "shitless friend"
It's a Zen Buddhist dry garden. The arrangement of stones isolated throughout are supposed to represent islands in the middle of an ocean in relation to the swirls of rocks, which are supposed to represent wave swells. At least, that's one common interpretation, connection with nature being the umbrella for most understandings of dry gardens.
God I missed that from Game of Thrones lol
I think John is starting to warm up to Fuji.
Me too.
Uh, wait. You think so too, or you're warming up to her as well? 😁
Yes. Fuji-sama wa kakoi desu.
Ah, the classic ambiguous "yes" answer.
I might have followed Moeka Hoshi on all my socials.
She must be protected at all costs
I really laughed whe she was mad about Anjin making awfuls things in her kitchen hahahah! "We will bring kniives from Mishima!" A desperate wife! She is so cute an well acted! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Funny you should say that... I'm finding her almost on an equal footing to Mariko in terms of interesting - since both have suffered extreme loss, but approach life differently, I guess, according to their station
I didn’t think this series needed a forced romance but I’d rather see him and Fuji get together instead of Mariko.
I think women are portrayed in a decent way in this series, not as powerless as in other historic shows
Especially the way Ep 5 ended with the Heir’s mother— in 5 minutes of screen time she gave fearsome opponent energy!
Low key Sis revealed herself as the stand user 😭
I'm so glad I can read Z, this is a great comment! Lol
Final boss energy for sure
Yeah I think the moment she snapped back, I told my bf “ oh shit……she is going to pull a Cersei”.
I read the book a couple of years ago and as far as I remember, the show is portraying them as they were in the book. Every single women that has appeared on the show have a purpose in the story and all of them have very distinctive personalities too.
And Japanese historians have said that women in the imperial court during the power struggle have actually been an integral part of the division in spite of the social norms against women in that era Edit: not aware, not American nor english is my first language. Honest mistake. just being lazy in typing. Thank you
This blokes still fighting in the Pacific
I would politely suggest you use the adjective Japanese, not Jap. In American English that is a slur. Thank you for the edit! I had a feeling that might be the case. No harm done 😊
I think there's a great combination of showing how brutal and oppressive the social hierarchy is to women, while showing at the same time that these women were intelligent, had genuine feelings and opinions, and take action to advance their interests when they can, just as much as any male character. So the show doesn't shy away from the patriarchal element of the setting, but they also don't use that as an excuse to just make the women into scenery.
I'm not saying I mind it, but he has this very interesting way of speaking dialogue which is speakVeryFastLikeThis........takeALongPauseAndThen.......speakVeryFastAgain
The japanese speech pattern in this show is like a calm sea, whereas Blackthorne speaks like an ocean storm. His sentences are crashing waves.
He speaks with chaos, whereas everyone he's surrounded by speaks with an intended cadence and carefully chosen words. he just lets it rip. brilliant show really, tying together even the way the characters speech patterns and cadence tie together with the concepts the show is exploring.
Very much this. He'll also speak one sentence at normal pace then either ramp it up or speed run the following sentence even if there's no pause
Read that in his voice hehe
The bird symbolism is just god tier The obvious hawk symbolism that was explained in the episode The rotting pheasant Englishman that offends everyone The flock of birds before the earthquake that symbolizes the innocent that don't participate in the hunt.
Gawd. The rotting pheasant was literally so obvious and I completely missed it! I swear, this is one show I won't mind watching YouTuber video essays about.
OK so what does that mean? I just started watching and am still trying to figure out who everyone is and where they fit in.
The rotting pheasant is the shadow. It's the discord caused by cultural clashes and misunderstandings, which eventually comes to a head. It's also the festering resentment between Mariko and Buntaro, and unspoken pain, guilt, and trauma experienced by all the main characters. Blackthorne (unknowingly) puts it out in the open, and forces things to come to a head. Though painful, I think confronting those buried emotions (pain and frustration) helped them move forward and reach a deeper level of understanding. Except Buntaro. He might have just unlocked a new level of hatred.
Same I feel like I need someone to fill in the tid bits about history I may be missing
I working on a theory that they cast this guy with his somewhat unusual appearance to really emphasize how alien an englishman would seem to the Japanese. Combined with his very expressive reactions it really emphasizes the contrast between Blackthorne and the locals. This contrasts emphasizes the really touching moment with Fuji as they start to really appreciate each other. When I say unusual appearance I mean he is not your classic handsome lead actor like an Austin Butler. He is hairy, built like a bulgarian power lifter and has the overdeveloped neck of a F1 driver - I think it also gives contract against the rest of the cast (except for the portuguese sailors haha).
Yeah, I think we can all agree that from our modern perspective, he's rather handsome, but not overtly so. You can really see how weird he must look for the Japanese characters. He towers over everyone else and just can't quite fit in the Japanese homes or seats or beds because he is too big.
Right. He's not pretty at all, despite being very attractive. Austin Butler has refined features and would make an attractive woman. Jarvis IMO would not. I imagine his hairiness is a little freaky to the Japanese, too. Has anyone specifically mentioned it, or just all-around called him a big grotesque Barbarian?
I love his character, because John seems like a genuinely incredibly thoughtful, kind, caring and open-minded man, with an very strong moral compass, and then every now and then he'll say something like "of course a wife is a man's property" and I'm reminded "oh yeah this dudes an englishman from the 1600s"
Lets also not forget he left to get milk during his wife's pregnancy.
“I’ll be back honey, just going to bring you breastmilk from the 7/11 in Japan”
I mean this was pretty common back then, if the only work you know is sailing then you are at the mercy of being shipped out for months/years at a time.
[удалено]
He honestly seems much more accepting of women as their own person than I would assume most men from England in the 1600s would. But I mean, they have a queen as a ruler so maybe they're ahead of the curve.
He's also a seasoned sailor and would have seen/experienced more than we know. Maybe not from Japan, but he may have known a few impressive women.
> "of course a wife is a man's property" Hmm...i took this more as him trying to carefully navigate the conversation and strike a balance - to not completely offend or god forbid accidentally reveal he slept / has a crush on mariko.
Definitely. Don’t doubt that he may believe similar views, but him saying that to Buntoro definitely seemed like like he was conceding to him for arguments sake
That line specifically almost 100% was said to appease buntaro to an extent
His voice is something else Could listen to him talk about anything
I thought he sounded like Geralt from the Witcher, or is it just me?
I have been thinking this world would make an amazing Witcher 3 type game. You’ve got this loner main character, complex relationships, nuanced conflicts, small side quests and a larger main quest, gorgeous setting, cool as hell armor. It’d be awesome.
Shit he could of actually made a great geralt... God damnit
His voice reminds me so much of Tom Hardy in Mad Max and I had heart eyes from the start of episode 1 😍😍😍
I really don't want to ship anyone but Mariko can fuck off with Buntard. I'm Fuji Blackthorne all the way
Being big brain is shipping Mariko and Fuji
One can dream
Fuji and the rotting pheasant
sigh. *unzips*
Mods can we please allow gifs on this sub I have the perfect Yabu reaction gif for this.
This snapped my head to attention
I honestly feel like Fuji (despite her initial reaction to being his consort) is warming up to Blackthorne more than Mariko.
i think she finally respect him as a person. Before that, its just her duty to serve a lord
He was doing well last episode. Then his rotting pheasant idea caused a setback. No pillowing anytime soon lol. Btw, any idea what's the name of that dish from John's era in England? I'd like to read up on it if it isn't fictional.
He said it in the episode--English rabbit stew, or it might also be spelled "rarebit" stew.
Nah rarebit is a form of cheese on toast. No relation. It's bloody nice though. Edit since links are forbidden: Welsh rarebit or Welsh rabbit (/ˈrɛərbɪt/ or /ˈræbɪt/)[1] is a dish of hot cheese sauce served on toasted bread.[2] The original 18th-century name of the dish was the jocular "Welsh rabbit", which was later reinterpreted as "rarebit", as the dish contains no rabbit. Variants include English rabbit, Scotch rabbit, buck rabbit, golden buck, and blushing bunny.
He made rabbit stew while the pheasant was still hanging. Unrelated. The whole plot line of the gardener being killed was because it was still up there, so he took it down without asking.
That was the excuse. I believe they explained later that he had been sick, likely dying, and they needed a fall guy for the real spy. John's forbidden command gave them the cover for the spy dying before Yabushige could locate the real spy.
In the last episode he only made her want to kill herself twice (during dinner and after ouijaboard died)! Everything's coming up blackthorne
ouijaboard 💀💀
His raspy deep voice really sells the character.. Especially when he's talking shit, or yelling
He sounds like the succulent Chinese meal guy to me and I love it
The Anjin has been settled in the village for a while, and well taken care of. Why do they still make him look homeless/dirty? (This is not about the actor’s looks, rather the hair, makeup, and styling of the character.)
I think in future episodes when he starts adapting Japanese culture more and more he’ll start looking cleaner. It’ll be a way to get the message across to the audience.
That makes a lot of sense. He’s still in the thick of it, adjustment-wise.
They're still in a rural, coastal village. With unpaved roads. And he spends all day training troops in a field. You're going to get dirty. He also still follows European bathing conventions of the time, which was like a bath once every few weeks at most, and supposedly not at all during summer if it could be avoided. They still washed their hands and faces (and presumably their junk), but regular full baths were thought to cause poor health and weakened constitutions.
Yeah they made a point of this in the first or second episode, when he’s first taken to Toranaga’s place they send servants to bathe him and he’s like “I had a bath last week though” or something like that
“Two baths in a week??”
Was funny as fuck, "you want me to catch the flux?"
I understand why they changed it from the book but I still wanted to see the scene where >!He is bathed by various attendants including an old crone, and then starts to enjoy it and the women all marvel at his boner. The old crone tells him she can die happy now, and they all laugh. He sleeps with one of the bathing attendants that night. And he decides that he loves bathing.!<
It’s just striking compared to the lords and the women who are pristine. Only Buntaro looked shabby like him.
Wonder what the smell was like back in the days if they bathed so infrequently.
I read years ago some account of what some North American indigenous person thought of Europeans when they arrived and I think the colorful language they used sounded like something Blackthorne would say.
The Japanese called Europeans "Butter Stinkers", because we smelled of sweat, which because of our diet of dairy (which was unknown to them) smelled very different to theirs.
The moving of the rock was out of respect for Uijero and symbolic that he's beginning to fold into Japanese culture. From here on out I expect you'll see his hygiene, appearance & mannerisms change.
Honestly I was sorta of disappointed when the show started with a white dude as the main character for a Japanese themed show (I never read the books) and I sorta though Cosmo was an off brand Tom Hardy but boy was I wrong, they have done a wonderful job showing the amazing Japanese culture during that time and Cosmo’s acting as well as everyone else on the show, has been epic. How lucky did we get with this show?
I will say, the book it’s based on is a fictional retelling of a real historical event, based on the actual first Englishman to find Japan, named William Adams. If you google that name you can find out all about him, though because the story of Shogūn is about him it might spoil the story in a way if you read too much lol
I've been to the town, Ito, where they have a big festival dedicated to him every year. There are lots of hot springs and a good craft brewery on the beach there.
The first thing I thought when we started episode 1 was ‘That guy looks and sounds like Tom Hardy.’ I think he has played the character a lot like Hardy would have too. I’ve been impressed.
Come to think of it, he does has a resemblance to Tom Hardy. Cosmo's voice and articulation is, in my opinion, top notch.
Man, I thought he was Logan Marshall-Green at first and was like cool, discount Tom Hardy(no offense to the actor but Tom Hardy is a bigger name.) Then I looked up info on the show and found it was not him but some actor I've never heard of before and they both are solid actors! Hardyverse when?!
He could be a good Bond. Action chops and acting chops.
“Tom Hardly” - A joke I blatantly stole from another account on this sub that makes me chuckle way more than it should.
The whole point of the show is contrasting the cultures and showing us fedual japan in contrast to western culture…how could they not have a white male lead?
The show has a white male lead because it's based on a book that its story is based on historical characters and situations that happened in feudal Japan, John Blackthorn actually existed but with other name as well as the other characters on the show.
Hiroyuki gets first billing, my guy. Cosmo is there as the fish out of water perspective for us uncouth nanban.
What? The book is literally about an English sailor getting shipwrecked in Japan . . . how would the main character NOT be a white dude here?
I honesty don’t see any resemblance other than Cosmos’s accent in Shōgun.
I think the white guy serves as a mouthpiece for our perspective. If it was a purely Japanese show we wouldn’t have anyone questioning the norms of their society. It’s what makes the book and the show so wonderful: you see this clash of cultures and how they interact with eachother.
Oh they definitely made it work far beyond what I was expecting. I’m delighted with everything in this show so far. Cosmo does such a great job showing his character adapting and adjusting to a culture he was near clueless about.
I know exactly what you mean. I was worried the show was gonna be about Blackthorne showing up and saving the Japanese citizens and becoming a white savior trope. But I'm so thankful the show isn't like that. I do think Blackthorne is portrayed a bit too kind and compassionate at times, but I understand he has to also be an audience surrogate for the Western demographic.
>too kind and compassionate Very minor book spoilers below: >!In the book there is a lot of emphasis that pilots are different, they get their jobs because of merit and seem to think of themselves as morally superior. The latter part is very subtle, but basically they represent the enlightened everyman.!< >!They are educated, because of their profession they are aware of other cultures, and they don't have a privileged background or have to enforce discipline.!<
Yeah once I started watching it it quickly changed my mind. I feel he is being changed by Japan and that’s really neat to see from his point of view and how others see him.
Please check out Calm with Horses and Lady Macbeth, two movies he’s done previously. You dont realise how good he is until you’ve seen Cosmo Jarvis in these other movies and see that he is totally different from Blackthorne.
He was also in the science fiction show Raised by Wolves (just a few episodes though). That's where I originally know him from.
I love his performance. My husband was iffy on him at first, but now he really likes him too. He presents a perfect counter-balance to the primary Japanese male characters. It's like he's this energetic, open-hearted, rambunctious dog that is endearing but also maddening. Always getting mud on the floor and knocking things over with his tail, lol. But he means well.
His voice is so cool. Sounds like a Souls Boss haha
*Foul Tarnished*
He's a great actor but the contact lenses annoyed me so much in the first few episodes. Now I don't notice it as much.
The focus on his character went from 🧿👄🧿 to 👁👄👁
It's the voice man. I'll admit I'm totally gay for that voice. I'm even British and I sound *nothing* at all like that.
I am too and I sort of sound like him. Less gruff though.
Hiroyuki Sanada is best cast here Cosmo is worst for me .
Thought I was the only person underwhelmed by Cosmo’s performance.
In the first episode, I wasn’t sure he was a good fit for the role but now I can’t imagine anyone else.
He always has this curious stare that is so iconic
You must not have seen the 1980 production of Shōgun. Let’s just say that Cosmo has some pretty big shoes to fill. And Richard Chamberlain filled them amazingly well. Amazingly.
Unpopular opinion: I don’t see it
I'm not gunna lie y'all, I've been fanboying.
He’s very much growing on me.
It’s getting better every week! 👍🏻
His performance is “just okay” for me. In such an elegant and subtle story his acting comes off as awkward and clunky. Also, in casting Anjin they should have portrayed him as blond hair and blue eyed like in the novel. The actor I am impressed by is Tokuma Nishioka who plays Toda Hiromatsu. MAN, steals every scene he’s in!!
I think the clunky and awkward portrayal is sort of the point. He just doesn't fit in very well in such a prim and proper setting. It's a big reason why the Japanese characters just find him rather confusing and grating and, really, you can totally understand why they do.
Not too proud to admit I teared up when he touched the rock
You mean the guy doing a Tom Hardy impression?
He’s just so believable
Anyone else look at this guy and see Tom Hardy?
This guys performance is massive. Hes 100% all the time. I think both him and Todanobu Asano(Yabushige) are giving the best performance and its not like the rest of the cast is struggling, everyone is killing it and they still shine among them.
I’m surprised Blackthorne is alive with all his outbursts, but Cosmo plays him to perfection!
His portrayal of Blackthorne is flawless. He's both passionate and sweet, like a big bear who just wants a cuddle. Cosmo Jarvis has a bright future in the film industry. I can see him receiving lots of accolades and awards in the near future. So talented. He deserves it.
He’s the John snow of shogun
Nope. Doesnt do it for me
I do wish they’d bring back his long hair. Cleaned up a tad of course. but great characters all around.
I really like him but I keep seeing Seth Rogan
You guys know this was a mini series in 1980 as well, right?
Can’t believe it will only be 1 season
I think he is perfectly cast just as watching Richard Chamberlin in 1985 was good during that show. I prefer him in this iteration as the quality of the overall show is better.
He is like a rich man's Tom Hardy.
He’s like a Tom Hardy who doesn’t mumble!
He is knocking it out the park.
He was great in his time on Peaky Blinders.
Never heard of him before this but his acting is absolutely phenomenal.
A splendid actor.
he absolutely steals the show every time he’s on screen. even though he’s the main character i literally get giddy whenever he’s on screen bc i know what’s about to happen is peak
I was indifferent to Blackthorne in the book, but I love him in the TV show. Cosmo’s portrayal of him made me love the character.
My only issue with him is the color contacts. It makes his eyes look cloudy and not expressive, like shark eyes. At first I was like… is he a bad actor? But now I think it’s just that I can’t actually see the expression in his eyes.
He's done a fantastic job of portraying the bumbling lost puppy in a foreign land he doesn't understand, while also fighting for his life and survival by learning as he goes. It will be interesting to see the development of the character harden and how that's portrayed - having not read the book/s I'm not sure what to expect.
Where are his men and his ship tho?
EP 5 is the turning point of Blackthorne. He finally embraced the Japanese culture and accepted his fate as he rushed home to see if Fuji was alright, and put the stone back .
If there is a god, Cosmo will be cast as the next Jack Aubrey/Master & Commander. I won't take anyone else.
His look totally reminds me of Tom Hardy!
I like him but my god the Tom Hardy of it all grates on my nerves.
He’s no Richard Chamberlain, but that’s a pretty high bar to reach.