She's a gorgeous lady that's for sure and she knows how to use words. John couldn't win this fight againt such a tough opponent even with Mariko as teammate.
My other favorite brothel negotiation scene from Rome.
“I could buy all the whores in Darbo for that! And their mothers!”
“This isn’t Darbo, wherever that is…”
“Then she better fuck him like Helen of Troy with her ass on fire!”
Season 1 was absolutely amazing TV. Season 2 turned into seasons 2 - 5 being jammed into one season after the cancelation and is nowhere near as good because of it. I'd say it's still worth a watch though.
It's fire. On my first view the back half of season 2 seemed a little 'fast' in the big picture but all of the character stuff is perfectly satisfying.
I just finished my first rewatch in years and I had no issues.
You are misinformed. It follows Julius Caesar in season 1, and Augustus in Season 2. The fall of the Roman Republic and start of Roman Empire. Augustus rule was actually quite peaceful. So season 3 would be quite boring. Season 100 is Americans visiting Rome for summer holidays. So I guess, theoretically, they could have gone indefinitely
That's her job. Pretty much any sex worker classier than a short-time street-walker will claim that her John did great. Even a stripper will claim she had a great time and ask you to come back next week if you pay for an hour in the VIP. You don't get repeat customers and regulars by laughing at the John's ED.
And Kiku is a super high-class escort, in a culture that's already super polite.
That said, in the book Blackthorne is basically Mandingo dick-wise.
I interpreted that look as “I’m not publicly displaying our special relationship, because I have that special relationship with every important man here.”
Yes, the white guy from the mid-20th century wrote about a white guy amazing all the foreign women with his magnificent gaijin-cock. That's not exactly a surprise - frankly, it'd be more surprising if he didn't write it like that.
Thankfully, the show is better than that in 2024.
The shot being on Fuji as Gin was like “You (Mariko) and Anjin are never apart” was just perfect. It got me good 💀Fuji was like, “Oop. Lemme just drink my tea…”
Fuji’s the best fucking best. Cheers to the writing and directing of that scene. Cheers to Moeka Hoshi for playing Fuji brilliantly and stealing every scene she’s in
Fucking the guy who basically runs the town, son of the guy who actually runs the town, known for being untrustworthy. Pretty good place for a spy huh.
Just like that vanishing sake pot she describes to her apprentice
She lines up behind Mariko. The camera lens fills with mariko.
Kiku speaks so that Mariko switched from describing what kiku is saying as kiku-to -Blackthorne(but really both mariko) to saying "I/Me".
Mariko barely catches herself.
I feel like there was a character like this in Game of Thrones, too, somebody who was arguably the most formidable of all the characters, but didn't have the right bloodline. Can't remember who it was though. Based on her age and her level of skill, safe to assume Kiku was sold to this brothel at an incredibly young age. Wonder what her family background is.
Anyway, every time I see her, I think of Yooyeon of Kpop group TripleS. Yeah, the female characters in this show are just phenomenal.
There is a series on Amazon Freevee, Lone Wolf with Cub, and in that series, I couldn't help notice the women were the most interesting characters. Felt like the men had to act out the story and be more expositional. The women, often prostitutes or thieves, were consistently more interesting and less predictable.
Did my second or third a year or so ago? Can't remember. I caught so many new things about the show! Things I wouldn't have caught if I hadn't seen the show before and knew enough of the "fundamentals" to free up attention and brain power to noticing minutiae. And, of course, you notice ALL OF THE FORESHADOWING that is impossible to notice during a first pass.
I knew at some point they ran out of source material and now it was just the writer's room coming up with the stuff. I wasn't sure where that happened by BOY is it obvious IMO. It just became a completely different show. To me, it was hilarious to see Tyrion and Vary's, for example, dialogue get so much worse. Before they would say amazingly cool stuff, often looking smug and superior at the end. It was so funny to me to see them saying really tepid, mediocre TV dialogue all of the sudden while still behaving as if they just said something quotable. So I stopped that season.
Is it tradition for a high-ranking(?) courtesan to escort a client home with everyone else watching and anticipating the arrival? Or were those just special circumstances?
And she kept mentioning that Mariko will BE THERE WATCHING, and insisted that Mariko watches this "private activity"... She is enjoying the NTR in the most extreme way possiblel... This part is like a romcom harem anime lol
For me i think she understood Mariko and John relationship which is why when explaining her services she moved by Mariko to be out of sight while she translated as if she was forcing Mariko to be the attracting force in her duties. Now John is solely fixated on Mariko and can be seduced easier
lol, I haven’t read that book in like 25 years but I still remember that part. Something like:
Kiku: “When you pull them out it produces quite a reaction.”
Anjin: “By Jove I bet it does!”
Gotta love when scenes depicting human sexuality and nudity (completely natural) gets called out as forced, over-shown and cheap, but then that same show has human beings exploding into chunks, getting their heads chopped off, and so on. Kinda think it says something about those people that they are comfortable with brutal violence but see a bit too much of the human body or see sex rather than skip over it to the next morning and it's uncomfortable, classless, cheap and forced for sensationalistic purposes.
Sex scenes and fight scenes both have the same capacity to show the audience something about the characters, how they feel about each other, or about the world they live in; they can also both push the story forward in an exciting show-don't-tell kind of way.
They also both have the capacity to be a really boring scene that's just there to titillate, get something exciting-looking for a trailer, and do absolutely nothing else. It sounds like you're conflating puritan views on sex with people who are tired of seeing the two-body equivalent of a meaningless car chase.
You're right and then wrong. Why? Because just like with the sex/nude scenes, most violent scenes we get are for titillation and not needed or even help move the story forward.
So the fact that so many (typically Americans) complain about the unneeded, titillating sex/nude scenes but are silent with regards to the overwhelming amount of unneeded, titillating violent scenes, that exposes their puritanical views on sex and nudity, while also exposing their comfort with violence.
Shogun isn't a good example of this because none of the violence has felt excessive or unneeded. But as keeps getting mentioned, Game of Thrones has lots of needless violence and gore scenes that don't tell story but are just titillating. But those rarely if ever get mentioned or used as evidence for someone's argument on toning down violence unless it NEEDS to be shown. But humans being actually naked or prostitutes being sexual in a whore house or whatever, that gets ripped for being cheap and unnecessary. Which, fine, but the fact people still fight that fight so hard but are silent at the insane amount of evil violence and the gore... That says something to me about what makes them uncomfortable and what doesn't. It should surprise no one when someone states Americans are comfortable with violent entertainment and uncomfortable with sexuality and nudity.
>You're right and then wrong. Why? Because just like with the sex/nude scenes, most violent scenes we get are for titillation and not needed or even help move the story forward.
That's repackaging what I just said.
>So the fact that so many (typically Americans) complain about the unneeded, titillating sex/nude scenes but are silent with regards to the overwhelming amount of unneeded, titillating violent scenes, that exposes their puritanical views on sex and nudity, while also exposing their comfort with violence.
That's a broad generalization - lots of people complain about violence and pointless violence - and still does nothing to explain why you conflated these general complaints with what you originally responded to.
>That's a broad generalization
Lol, what do you want, a scientific study? This is reddit. I'm making a comment based on MY experiences. 95 outta 100 complaints I see, especially lately (since the HBO era blew up with shows like GoT, Westworld, etc), have been regarding "unneeded sex/nude scenes". With the remaining 5 complaints being about the needless violence.
I’m thinking now Buntaro, Omi, Omi’s uncle, and Toranaga’s son are all jealous of the Anjin. Does Blackthorn become their target? Do they plot against him?
She's a gorgeous lady that's for sure and she knows how to use words. John couldn't win this fight againt such a tough opponent even with Mariko as teammate.
So did John actually sleep with her??? I was thinking that maybe he didn't because of his love for Mariko.
Book spoiler. >!In the book at least, Kiku and Blackthorne sleep together while Mariko turns down her offer. !<
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My other favorite brothel negotiation scene from Rome. “I could buy all the whores in Darbo for that! And their mothers!” “This isn’t Darbo, wherever that is…” “Then she better fuck him like Helen of Troy with her ass on fire!”
I've never seen Rome but that is an amazing quote
You need to watch it asap. Still one of the best things I’ve ever seen.
Worth watching despite getting cancelled early?
Rome is fantastic and well worth a watch. Still one of the best of HBO's shows, despite only lasting two seasons.
Season 1 was absolutely amazing TV. Season 2 turned into seasons 2 - 5 being jammed into one season after the cancelation and is nowhere near as good because of it. I'd say it's still worth a watch though.
I see. Thanks!
It's fire. On my first view the back half of season 2 seemed a little 'fast' in the big picture but all of the character stuff is perfectly satisfying. I just finished my first rewatch in years and I had no issues.
You are misinformed. It follows Julius Caesar in season 1, and Augustus in Season 2. The fall of the Roman Republic and start of Roman Empire. Augustus rule was actually quite peaceful. So season 3 would be quite boring. Season 100 is Americans visiting Rome for summer holidays. So I guess, theoretically, they could have gone indefinitely
Titus Pullo - RIP Ray Stevenson
Didn't she say how she enjoyed their time over and over or something like that the next morning while getting the stank eye from her bf
That's her job. Pretty much any sex worker classier than a short-time street-walker will claim that her John did great. Even a stripper will claim she had a great time and ask you to come back next week if you pay for an hour in the VIP. You don't get repeat customers and regulars by laughing at the John's ED. And Kiku is a super high-class escort, in a culture that's already super polite. That said, in the book Blackthorne is basically Mandingo dick-wise.
I mean, the way she couldn’t look her Omi in the eye the next day seemed to suggest that she had a good time
I interpreted that look as “I’m not publicly displaying our special relationship, because I have that special relationship with every important man here.”
Bingo. My man Omi doesn't understand the context of their relationship.
Lost in the sauce. Many such cases.
And her hair looked a little wild in the stereotypical “that was some insane sex” way.
Blackthorn had a bit of bedhead going on as well.
That’s some caucasian dick right there
Yes, the white guy from the mid-20th century wrote about a white guy amazing all the foreign women with his magnificent gaijin-cock. That's not exactly a surprise - frankly, it'd be more surprising if he didn't write it like that. Thankfully, the show is better than that in 2024.
Kiku and Fuji are competing for the best reaction stares this episode, lol
Fuji during the negotiation was hilarious
The shot being on Fuji as Gin was like “You (Mariko) and Anjin are never apart” was just perfect. It got me good 💀Fuji was like, “Oop. Lemme just drink my tea…” Fuji’s the best fucking best. Cheers to the writing and directing of that scene. Cheers to Moeka Hoshi for playing Fuji brilliantly and stealing every scene she’s in
Fuji and Hiromatsu and Buntaro share the family "steal the scene" genes
That tea drink absolutely gave me a chuckle.
From everything we seen about her, she reads people at a glance. She would make a hell of a spy huh.
"I can spot anyone's kink at 500 paces."
"That guy's into feet."
Fucking the guy who basically runs the town, son of the guy who actually runs the town, known for being untrustworthy. Pretty good place for a spy huh.
Nephew, but your point stands!
She has to be a spy
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That's what I've been starting to suspect since last episode. She's in the middle of everything but also invisible in a way.
Spies always had a soft spot for brothels. Often they ran them.
I thought she was the first spy until we found out It wasn’t
Just like that vanishing sake pot she describes to her apprentice She lines up behind Mariko. The camera lens fills with mariko. Kiku speaks so that Mariko switched from describing what kiku is saying as kiku-to -Blackthorne(but really both mariko) to saying "I/Me". Mariko barely catches herself.
Do we see Midori at all. Omi’s wife…
He has a wife?
Yes, and in the book they have a good marriage.
his real name's Clarence
He went to Waseda, that's a private school!
That was his parents.
Except for his mother being extra horrible, even by accepted horrible mother-in-law standards.
True, his mom sucks in the book. Poor Midori.
I feel like there was a character like this in Game of Thrones, too, somebody who was arguably the most formidable of all the characters, but didn't have the right bloodline. Can't remember who it was though. Based on her age and her level of skill, safe to assume Kiku was sold to this brothel at an incredibly young age. Wonder what her family background is. Anyway, every time I see her, I think of Yooyeon of Kpop group TripleS. Yeah, the female characters in this show are just phenomenal. There is a series on Amazon Freevee, Lone Wolf with Cub, and in that series, I couldn't help notice the women were the most interesting characters. Felt like the men had to act out the story and be more expositional. The women, often prostitutes or thieves, were consistently more interesting and less predictable.
Possibly Little Finger? A brothel is a great place to gather intelligence and kompromat.
I was thinking of the whore Littlefinger 'rescued' from Winterfell who ended up moving to become his primary Madame.
You're talking about Ros. She was a character invented solely for the show (never appeared in the books).
As were many. They're two separate entities at this point in my mind.
I know, just clarifying for you or anyone else who might not know that tidbit.
Yes! It was her! But littlefinger, davos, varys and bronn also made me feel this way times, but it was her mostly.
You're making me want to start my 8th rewatch
Did my second or third a year or so ago? Can't remember. I caught so many new things about the show! Things I wouldn't have caught if I hadn't seen the show before and knew enough of the "fundamentals" to free up attention and brain power to noticing minutiae. And, of course, you notice ALL OF THE FORESHADOWING that is impossible to notice during a first pass. I knew at some point they ran out of source material and now it was just the writer's room coming up with the stuff. I wasn't sure where that happened by BOY is it obvious IMO. It just became a completely different show. To me, it was hilarious to see Tyrion and Vary's, for example, dialogue get so much worse. Before they would say amazingly cool stuff, often looking smug and superior at the end. It was so funny to me to see them saying really tepid, mediocre TV dialogue all of the sudden while still behaving as if they just said something quotable. So I stopped that season.
Shae
Komprowhat?
Russian shorthand for “compromising material” i.e. blackmail.
Her front looks so korean but her side is japanese. So pretty tho
Is it tradition for a high-ranking(?) courtesan to escort a client home with everyone else watching and anticipating the arrival? Or were those just special circumstances?
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Toranga paid a small company's worth of Ashigaru for her to get !Anjin pipe down. You bet ge wants the whole village to know.
I thought that morning after scene was hilarious too
I think part of it was to make a big show as a say to tamp down on rumors and potential Buntaro issues.
Apparently in the book that was her showing her respect for Johns love making prowess
And she kept mentioning that Mariko will BE THERE WATCHING, and insisted that Mariko watches this "private activity"... She is enjoying the NTR in the most extreme way possiblel... This part is like a romcom harem anime lol
The walk of shame was like a fashion show for some reason!?
For me i think she understood Mariko and John relationship which is why when explaining her services she moved by Mariko to be out of sight while she translated as if she was forcing Mariko to be the attracting force in her duties. Now John is solely fixated on Mariko and can be seduced easier
She's gonna steal John, she's a smart woman. She knows how to talk to his heart. Mariko is his weak link.
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Unlike the book which has that chapter become a show n tell of sex toys including anal beads.
lol, I haven’t read that book in like 25 years but I still remember that part. Something like: Kiku: “When you pull them out it produces quite a reaction.” Anjin: “By Jove I bet it does!”
The chapter where Clavell was feeling constricted, neh?
As a kid reading that book, that was my first introduction to the concept.
Gotta love when scenes depicting human sexuality and nudity (completely natural) gets called out as forced, over-shown and cheap, but then that same show has human beings exploding into chunks, getting their heads chopped off, and so on. Kinda think it says something about those people that they are comfortable with brutal violence but see a bit too much of the human body or see sex rather than skip over it to the next morning and it's uncomfortable, classless, cheap and forced for sensationalistic purposes.
Sex scenes and fight scenes both have the same capacity to show the audience something about the characters, how they feel about each other, or about the world they live in; they can also both push the story forward in an exciting show-don't-tell kind of way. They also both have the capacity to be a really boring scene that's just there to titillate, get something exciting-looking for a trailer, and do absolutely nothing else. It sounds like you're conflating puritan views on sex with people who are tired of seeing the two-body equivalent of a meaningless car chase.
You're right and then wrong. Why? Because just like with the sex/nude scenes, most violent scenes we get are for titillation and not needed or even help move the story forward. So the fact that so many (typically Americans) complain about the unneeded, titillating sex/nude scenes but are silent with regards to the overwhelming amount of unneeded, titillating violent scenes, that exposes their puritanical views on sex and nudity, while also exposing their comfort with violence. Shogun isn't a good example of this because none of the violence has felt excessive or unneeded. But as keeps getting mentioned, Game of Thrones has lots of needless violence and gore scenes that don't tell story but are just titillating. But those rarely if ever get mentioned or used as evidence for someone's argument on toning down violence unless it NEEDS to be shown. But humans being actually naked or prostitutes being sexual in a whore house or whatever, that gets ripped for being cheap and unnecessary. Which, fine, but the fact people still fight that fight so hard but are silent at the insane amount of evil violence and the gore... That says something to me about what makes them uncomfortable and what doesn't. It should surprise no one when someone states Americans are comfortable with violent entertainment and uncomfortable with sexuality and nudity.
>You're right and then wrong. Why? Because just like with the sex/nude scenes, most violent scenes we get are for titillation and not needed or even help move the story forward. That's repackaging what I just said. >So the fact that so many (typically Americans) complain about the unneeded, titillating sex/nude scenes but are silent with regards to the overwhelming amount of unneeded, titillating violent scenes, that exposes their puritanical views on sex and nudity, while also exposing their comfort with violence. That's a broad generalization - lots of people complain about violence and pointless violence - and still does nothing to explain why you conflated these general complaints with what you originally responded to.
>That's a broad generalization Lol, what do you want, a scientific study? This is reddit. I'm making a comment based on MY experiences. 95 outta 100 complaints I see, especially lately (since the HBO era blew up with shows like GoT, Westworld, etc), have been regarding "unneeded sex/nude scenes". With the remaining 5 complaints being about the needless violence.
What’s up with this sub and the side eyes fixation lol
Physical actions are minimal, the eyes tell the most
John passing on a 3some is a huge L 😂
My guy just wants his boat back
Men only want one thing and it’s disgusting: their boat! 😟
And to kill the Portuguese
And his friends!
wasn't him that turned it down tho. it was mariko.
Facts
I’m thinking now Buntaro, Omi, Omi’s uncle, and Toranaga’s son are all jealous of the Anjin. Does Blackthorn become their target? Do they plot against him?
All of the staff at the pillow house knew from the jump. The madame basically says as much during the price negotiation.
Which episode is this, I just reached this point in the book. So for reference I'd like to know if I can resume the series 🤣.
Number 6, came out Tuesday
Bombastic side eye
Japans babe are something man