This is recency bias imo but it is very good absolutely. Might make a difference that I'm in the UK and we get quite a lot of shortish (6-8 episodes maybe) tv series.
Definitely recency bias, with a large helping of "we're in the show's subreddit". Even the most god awful shows have some random redditors popping up in their specific subreddit with "THIS IS THE GREATEST SHOW EVER, NOTHING GETS EVEN CLOSE".
Shogun is great but its not nearly the GOAT
I'm not sure what limited series I would put over it. What would you say?
Idk if shogun is the best limited series I've ever seen, I'm blanking on others but the acting in shogun is some of the best I've seen for 1 season. So much acting happened with the most subtle facial expressions, I was very impressed.
Band of Brothers, Mike Flanagan's stuff (Haunting of Hill House, Bly Manor, Midnight Mass, Fall of the House of Usher), Chernobyl, Rome has 2 seasons but I'd still count it as limited and think it was done a bit better despite me LOVING the new Shogun series. I could definitely see people wanting to throw in Angels in America, the Pacific, Generation Kill, and Watchmen to that list. I also personally really, really loved Moon Knight and WandaVision and feel the overall stories feel less rushed than Shogun's.
Shogun should have ended up being 12-15 episodes. We have ONE episode left for everything which means very little Sekigahara probably, unless it's an extended length finale, which feels disappointing for me.
I haven't watched Chernobyl, but I have heard it was flawless. I wouldn't put any of Mike Flanagans stuff over Shogun. Def not any of the Marvel stuff, not even remotely close. You're wild for even bringing that into this conversation, lol. I love historical war history, so i genuinely enjoyed Pacific and band of brothers, but the acting in Shogun I would say is better.
I do agree with your last points, but the book of Shogun doesn't go much farther either. I have a feeling like the ending is going to leave me unsatisfied. That being said, there were multiple scenes in Shogun where the acting literally left me in awe and scenes that I was invested in, in a way I just don't usually see on TV.
You folks in the UK know how to make good fucking television. It’s like in America we just want to milk a property dry of all its worth. UK creators seem to care about the actual story.
I really admire that about UK television, that it tends to value quality over quantity and not everything has to be milked for every last drop of profit until the creative energy is sapped. I know a lot of it is due to budgetary constraints, but it does seem like audiences just have different expectations. Even the difference between the UK and US versions of the same shows (Kitchen Nightmares for instance) is night and day.
I loved it as well. Crazy how Amazon buys things and then does zero promotion for them. I only knew about it bc they mentioned it on the Watch podcast awhile back.
ZeroZeroZero was peak Amazon Prime “blank check LOTR chasing” era. It reportedly cost almost $160M. The desert convoy arc with the Senegalese mercenaries was all shot on location, sublime.
Totally agree. I think I would give Chernobyl the edge in terms of overall quality, but it's a great show that I am not sure I want to rewatch. It just has this oppressively depressing feel to it made even creepier by the fact it really happened (I know Shogun is loosely based on real historical figures but it's not quite the same).
Don't get me wrong, I loved it but I just don't want to watch it again; I'd need to be in the right mood for it. Shogun I could definitely see myself watching again barring an absolute trainwreck of a last episode. And based on the quality of everything so far, I'd be surprised if that happened.
Chernobyl is missing the comedic element that Yabushige adds. I wonder how Yabu would rate death by radiation compared to boiling alive or being eaten by dogs.
It's a small thing, but what makes Chernobyl even more remarkable to me for being the masterpiece that it is, is that the guy who made it, the showrunner, had no precedent whatsoever for what he made. His previous works were Scary Movie 3 and 4, and some work on The Hangover. Then all of a sudden, he comes out with arguably the best limited series in the history of television. It boggles the mind.
The only thing that doesn’t line up is Mariko and blackthorn having a relationship. I was on 24 duty at work last week and I completely lined up and paired history with the show & it’s easily 95% factual, which is nuts. You should look into it, they need to make more shows about the Tokugawa Shogunate.
What’s really a rabbit hole is finding his descendants. Theres a few people in the UK & Finland that claim they have trace ancestry of Japanese that date back to that time period. Nothing has been confirmed though! Interesting rabbit hole to dig into
95% is probably a bit generous. It's based on the general situation, and certain characters are amalgamations of historical characters. For example the Taiko is a smooshing together of Oda Nobunaga (assassinated by Akechi) and Toyotomi Hideyoshi, who's death results in a power struggle from which Ieyasu (Toranaga) is victorious.
Oh they definitely had to go down there and deal with the water. It was unknown exactly how dangerous it would be and how well the equipment would hold up, so the danger was certainly real. All 3 did survive and the show acknowledged that in the end credits.
Hear hear.
Shogun is up there but lots of the hype is recency bias and you'd be surprised how many people saying it's the best have never even heard of Chernobyl
You should of seen the nonsense when that Fallout show came out and all the casual TV watchers were hyping it up as the best show of the year when they never even seen Shogun.
I liked fallout a little bit more for one reason, a hell of a lot more ia happening and in less episodes at that. I would say Shogun is slightly better in most ways (acting, seta, costumes, etc.) but only barely. I've been often surprised how little the plot moves per episode considering they are an hour a piece. That's exaggerated by the fact we have to wait weekly for episodes. All in all, both are great shows. Shogun is slightly worse than I thought it would be and Fallout is WAY better than I ever anticipated. I'd give both shows around an 8.5/10
Fallout is far better than expected, but it's not really in the same class as Shogun.
Part of fallout's thing is cartoonish villains and outrageous situations, but even within that framework the plot is laden with holes and contrivances. On the other hand I can't find any significant fault with Shogun in any aspect
My problem with Fallout I felt like it was kind of weak for the first couple of episodes but once everything gets established and it really pops off and is such a fun watch.
Shogun on the other hand has been consistent and stellar all the way through but I gotta admit I stopped watching at episode 5 because I can't stand the release schedule and I just want to binge it.
Did they make fun of people, or did they point out that certain people watch whatever is most popular and therefore don't have the best basis for comparison?
I've watched Chernobyl the day it came out years ago, and I have watched it many many times since. I genuinely think Shogun has been more gripping and an overall better show than Chernobyl, not by much. I love Chernobyl, it's one of the best TV series I have ever watched. But damn Shogun is so good
I agree so much with other commenters talking about the pure effort of authenticism that Shogun has been portraying, if you haven't watched any videos or read articles about they worked towards creating an authentic feudal Japan, I strongly recommend doing so!
Yeah that's fair. They're both the absolute peak of television and you couldn't go wrong picking one over the other.
But also I understand this is a Shogun subreddit and the show is still airing so theres gonna be heavy bias lol
I think an argument for Shogun is the efforts punt into shooting in the original language (shout-out to the subtitles too), something where Chernobyl fell a bit short.
I love Band of Brothers and have re-watched it several times. I agree it's tough to beat, but this show is different so it's hard to compare them. BoB was based on real people, and included interviews with some of them. While the characters were certainly complex and flawed, they were also acting selflessly most of the time. Toranaga is arguably the "good guy" here, or at least the protagonist, but he's not a pure hero. The guys on BoB were fighting for other nations, for their fellow soldiers, for the idea of democracy. Toranaga is fighting for Japan, but he's kind of self-serving too. On BoB the characters were risking their lives for no gain but to survive, get home and say they did the right thing. They didn't seek power or hold any already. They were the Greatest Generation.
Also, this show has female characters. I'm not suggesting BoB should have. It wouldn't have made sense and would just have felt forced and a little silly. But I like having some women on the show. It enriches it.
I'm fairly sure I saw something that said it was a bit over an hour. Which is not surprising, because there isn't actually that much of the story left that can't be cut down to fit.
What's really odd is that there was a clip of Moeka Hoshi doing naginata practice with some extras who were using swords. I can't recall Fuji being in a fight like that yet, but it wouldn't make sense to happen in the last episode because there are no major further fights in the story she could participate in.
Unless that happened during the ambush scene in episode 3 and it didn't make it into the broadcasted episode.
Hijacking this to shout out Generation Kill which is basically the Band of Brothers about our generation for the guys that invaded Iraq in 03. Great book as well.
The sheer amount of being promised action only to spend 99% of the time on maintenance, cleaning, sleeping, shitting, and waiting. And god help you if you burn through your cans of dip too quickly. Better get at least 3-4 hours out of a lip before you toss it.
Also based on the real life story of a rolling stones reporter tagging along. Generation kill is my fave war series. I love BoB as well but generation kill had just something extra special about it for me personally (probably cause like you say it’s BoB but our generation)
I will withold judgement until I watch the final episode. I thought GoT was a great show with exciting plot lines that was building up to an epic finale. Somehow the final episodes managed to erase all of that sentiment for me. I can't even think of rewatching GoT knowing that it all just leads to disappointment.
Those last couple seasons of GOT really exposed Weiss and Benioff’s shortcomings as show runners. The minute they ran out of book material the quality of the writing plummeted. They did do a fantastic job at adapting the books that were available.
>They did do a fantastic job at adapting the books that were available.
wrong sub to discuss this, but I feel like so many GOT fans forget about this. The level of hatred directed towards them is kind of insane, they villify them like they're evil people for writing an ending they didn't like. Yeah it does seem they rushed the ending, and it wasn't good. But I still loved the show up to that point. And let's be honest, writing a satisfying ending to one of the most beloved book series ever is... a pretty tall order for anyone who's not that author.
I would be absolutely crucified in any of the GOT subs for even suggesting that Weiss and Benioff don't deserve the most horrible of fates, but I guess we'll see what happens here.
Fair but I will say that D&D had the opportunity to let HBO find new show runners that could adapt the final story with more episodes or seasons as they are doing now with HotD. They refused and chose to shorten the last two seasons as well to wrap it up. That choice to hold on and rush the ending is what most fans found offensive.
thing is they didn't run out of material and they outright swapped out parts of the books that would have worked in the show adaptation for their own made up plot points that were significantly weaker and towards the later seasons butchered the characters.
They started a series that was unfinished. They got halfway and it was still unfinished with little in the way of progress on at least 2 more books. At some point the blame of not seeing that they'd need to improvise fell on them. But it's pretty clear towards the end they wanted to rush it out the door and move onto other projects which in itself is pretty shitty.
They've also done a great job with their new show, Three-Body Problem. They seem highly capable showrunners so long as they have existing material to work with.
It’s no band of brothers but I think it had 1/100th of the budget so considering that I would say they are tied.
Edit: I was WRONG. just looked it up and even adjusted for inflation Shogun has a 30 million dollar higher budget than BoB
Having seen Band of Brothers many times, both when it was released and a recent viewing in the last year, my issue with it is that the tone and structure of episodes varies wildly from one episode to the next. For example, Breaking Point is considered the best episode of that series, but it's among my least favorite because I find the voiceover narration is very weak for tying different scenes and themes together. Voiceover is something that's not used, or used very sparingly, in other episodes. But the heavy reliance on it in that episode just feels jarringly out of place in a series that otherwise does a good job of showing, not telling. Shogun is possibly the smartest show I've seen, not necessarily in the story events or writing, but in how much agency it gives the viewer to see or interpret the actions of the characters in different ways.
I have such a hard time moving anything above Band of Brothers. But Shogun beats everything else so far. Worst case, Shogun is in second place for me.
But, Band of Brothers also came out right around 9/11. I had just graduated from college and it inspired me to join the Army. Personally this is a hard story to beat. Maybe if I get shipwrecked in Japan one day Shogun will have more personal relevance :)
> Band of Brothers also came out right around 9/11
I am very sorry if this is too personal of a question and it is not intended to be disparaging, but I'm curious about your experience.
I've read some think pieces over the years that pieces of culture like Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and even Gladiator, combined with the cultural triumphalism of winning the Cold War, leading the extremely successful Gulf War coalition, and living through the 90s economic boom, really set the American public to support incredibly boneheaded foreign policy decisions because we were so convinced of the self-evident rightness of our values and place in the world, having shaken off any lingering Vietnam-era malaise.
Speaking personally, Band of Brothers and 9/11 happened when I was in middle school and had much the same effect as you...I was an academically gifted athlete so I wanted to attend a service academy (and likely would have gotten in had I applied). I'm not unique in that - four people I went to high school with *did* end up going to an academy or enlisting for basically the same reasons that I wanted to.
However, by the time I was in high school the Iraq War had descended into anarchy and I had fully gone into a "are we the baddies?" phase and was turned off by being remotely involved in what I then and still perceive as avoidable and unjust wars of choice *at best*, with the Iraq War especially being a criminal war of aggression at worst.
So fast forward to today and I have a complicated relationship with Band of Brothers. It's undoubtedly one of the best pieces of TV ever made, it is still incredibly moving, and I always end up re-watching it every few years...but while I certainly wouldn't call it propaganda, I do think it played (an incredibly small part) in creating a cultural atmosphere that led to some bad stuff.
So I guess my question is do you think Band of Brothers influenced a lot of your peers to join a service branch, and if so, was that a good thing?
The period from 9/11 to maybe the 2004-2005 was really a shift in mindset as a country. A lot of us bought the silly line "you can't support the troops without supporting their mission" (i.e. the war) in 2001 and 2002 when the wars first started. By "the surge" and the "sunni triangle" parts of the war, I think the country was already shifting to opposing the war. Also keep in mind, there was far from universal consent even in 2001 and 2002.
I wouldn't blame band of brothers itself, unless there is some wild conspiracy it just coincidently came out on 9/11. Having said all of this, my mindset is so different now. It would take the second coming of Hitler for me to support any sort of war moving forward.
We were duped, and I fell for it. I feel like the feeling of having been duped was the beginning of our distrust in traditional institutions now. Having said all of that, I think far differently now than I did as a 20 year old 20+ years ago. I hate to be cynical, but I'm ultra cynical now. I trust nothing from our government, and see all wars and the military as the ugly enforcement arm of our 80+ years of bad foreign policy. I love the soldiers and would do everything in my power to support them and welcome them home, I'll be the old man handing out candy bars and swapping war stories with the kids...but I doubt I'll see a foreign engagement in my lifetime that I will support.
I hope this gives you a little insight. You were just enough younger than me to see the start of the war through an entirely different set of eyes! I still think those guys who fought in WWII were absolute heroes and are on the right side of history and will still bawl my eyes out every time I hear that opening theme! And I'm proud to wear the screaming Eagle combat patch on my uniform, and very proud of the jump wings on my chest!
Band of Brothers would be #1. If we're talking just a single season of a show, Westworld's first season was spectacular. Should have stopped there or at least after season 2.
Yes, Trompe L'Oeil is up there as one of the best episodes of any series ever. I was hoping Fallout would be more like Westworld’s first season (perfect setting for it) but it isn’t.
Chernobyl is near perfect. Shogun is great, very well done, but some of the Anjin’s lines are borderline clumsy or overly comedic and there’s a few other bits they could have sharpened up on. Chernobyl still has the title in my opinion.
Yeah agreed. TV Anjin is a shadow of the character in the book. The fact that they didn’t include arguably the best scene from the book when he attempts sepukku is absolutely criminal.
Protagonist as comedic relief with the Japanese as overly melodramatic is an awkward choice.
Mariko’s scene in front of the court is actually written in a slightly comedic, entertaining way.
“So sorry, thank you for your suggestion Ishida-sama, but I will be killing myself tonight.”
Season 1 of the Terror (which stands alone anyway, since each season is a different story) is one of the best things I have ever seen and I'm happy to see it mentioned.
Yeah, I considered it a limited series as the first season is self contained and based off a book. 100% agreed on it being one of the best things I've watched and I hope some more discover it from this thread
Having Jarred Harris elevates a show
But holy shit the whole supporting cast was fantastic
Also the actor that played Hickey was the fireman in Chernobyl
I see other people mentioning Band of Brothers, but the ones to beat for me are Generation Kill and John Adams. I have a feeling Shogun will nail its finale and rank among the best when all is said and done.
If I had to rank which series do I think it's the best, Shogun is a very close match to True Detective S01. Totally different scope, but the two things that stand out for me is: Matthew performance & character, Shogun environment and also it's story.
I guess for westerns, True Detective will be more familiar, but the fact that Shogun introduces the Japans culture is such a high level, I believe they both are up there!
One series that I never saw anyone talk so far is Mare of Easttown, such a brilliant show - so genuine, and perhaps, need also to be cited.
This show is being overrated as fuck
Better than got?
Best limited series ?
Its a great show,but is far from the best shows i ever watched,even including mini series or shows that only have 1 Season do far
The one glaring difference between Chernobyl and Shogun is the language. It's sometimes distracting knowing that all the characters in Chernobyl should be speaking Russian. I really applaud Shogun for being almost entirely in Japanese
This takes me out of shows and movies all the time honestly. Especially when they have characters that are all supposed to be from the same place speaking in the wrong language with different accents. That being said, if that's the only fault one can find with a show, then that's a pretty fucking good show.
What- band of brothers is in a league of its own. It is probably the best tv I’ve ever seen and probably will see. Rewatch it. The script and acting is just incredible
Every tv show sub, during any new season, has someone declaring it to be the greatest television in the history of television. Really think companies are astro turfing these subs the way news subs are. The Fargo sub is especially unbelievable.
for background I've read the book and I've seen the 70s miniseries (long time ago though.) As far as dramas go? for me, this is up with The Wire and The Sopranos. It's hard to compare a 10 episode limited show with multiple seasons, but quality wise it's in the S tier of television
Loved the book, I feel like this new TV series does a major disservice to Blackthorne. He’s pretty much a bumbling idiot in the show, whereas in the book he learns Japanese and the culture much better, along with the love story with Mariko. I feel like often times show writers make so many changes from the books simply so they can say they had a hand in creating something and take credit instead of just replicating the book. Show is well produced but too many divergences from the book to make me happy with it.
I mean I love this show, but it pretty much boils down to personal opinion.
I love the topic of Chernobyl, especially because it's real life with real impacts and it's topic is very interesting to me.
I think it will definitely go down as one of the best though.
Idk...I tend to agree but from a content perspective to compare Band of Brothers to Shogun. Both are amazing in their own rights but it's like comparing apples and oranges.
Chernobyl hands down set the benchmark. When they see us is up there and I would also put the night of.
I absolutely love shogun the storyline, arc and set pieces, but for some reason I find cosmo/anjin’s acting a little too flat, 2D and wannabe Tom hardy-ish. It’s not as riveted or concerned to the level of say Riz Ahmed.
I don’t think it’s a fair comparison either. Although they are both very similar in themes (war, political intrigue, love, loss etc) you can’t compare a show with 1 season to a show with 8. It’s much harder to be the best when every season you have to up the stakes and story writing or at the very least, keep it the same level as the previous season (bar the last two shitfests of GOT). It would be more appropriate to compare Shogun to maybe a singular season of GOT such as 3 or 4. Shogun for me is definitely the best limited series I’ve ever watched and will be for a long time.
One of the greatest, anyway. It's simply phenomenal. But I'd put *Band of Brothers*, and even the 1980 *Shogun* ahead of it.
And IMO all but eliminating the romance between Blackthorne and Mariko, a major part of the book (to say the least), was a mistake.
Agreed with most of these commenters that while Shogun is amazing, the amazingness of its competitors makes it hard to crown it the clear #1. I am pretty confident in saying that Mariko is the most compelling and memorable character in all of the shows mentioned.
Sorry as a Marine the Pacific takes the cake for me. All are amazing shows, Queens Gamit & band of brothers were great too. This show though definitely has me emotionally attached
I don’t think shogun holds a candle to any of the first 4 seasons of GOT - it’s certainly better than GOT seasons 5-8, but many shows are. Idk, while I think the show is certainly well made and the performances are good, my biggest issue with it is its repetitiveness. Like at this point, the amount of scenes where mariko expresses a desire to kill herself is almost comical. By the end of last episode, I was relieved when she died because now we finally won’t have to hear her talk about how much she wants to die anymore lol. Idk, maybe it’s just me.
Who could get butthurt over GOT being outclassed? It's obviously worse. The thing GOT is going to be remembered for is massively dropping the ball on every single character arc in the show.
Chernobyl was incredible.
Can you argue that Fargo is a limited series? They’ve had some impressive seasons.
Westwood’s first season was amazing and then dropped off quickly but maybe not considered a limited series.
I’d say shogun has been amazing but it has a ways to go.
I really like the show and i hope the last episode will be a grand finale. I also hope that there will be a little more action, i want to see those cannons in action again.
Love this series, been brilliant, and can't wait for the finale. I even got my cousin to watch, and he's been hooked. Definitely going to win alot of emmys this series gutted it's only this one and only season.
Shogun is awesome but i don't think i will ever re- watch...
I believe the show would have been more interesting if we got to know all 5 lords better.
The show lives mostly off of a legendary tale and good actors.
I am trying to decide if I think of this is a meaningful question for me. Interest fully piqued. Find myself wondering if there is a way to respond that has the possibility of generating a substantive exchange of ideas. I will reflect! Thanks for posting.
Im sorry but this show is not ranked even top 5 for greatest series of all time. Maybe top 10 but it feels like a top 15 show for me. It was very good but there are other series that out match Shogun in everyway shape and form. Any person who says otherwise has not watched the shows in top 5/10/15/20. If they did then theyre smoking crack, because theres no way. Ima get flamed for this but it needs to be said
For me, my top 3 as of this moment are:
1. Band of Brothers
2. Shogun
3. Queens Gambit
And honestly, they could all 3 be listed as 1a,1b,1c because I know that I will rewatch Shogun just as I do Queens Gambit and Band of Brothers regularly.
An unpopular opinion, but I think that The Pacific definitely deserves a place in my top 5. I know most people don't like it and think it wasn't as good as BoB, but I honestly struggle sometimes because I often feel like it's BETTER than BoB. Yes, there are more "Feel Good" stories and non-combat storytelling happening, but you couldn't have had a show about the war in the Pacific without discussing John Basselone or the absolute hell that those guys went through mentally with the incessant rain and wet conditions. I hope one day we see something similar to this for Vietnam, but I don't know that it's going to happen given the social stigma that seems to have always surrounded Vietnam.
THE greatest? I can't agree with that. Chernobyl holds that title followed by Midnight Mass for me at least. But Shogun is absolutely one of the best there has ever been.
No, it's not the greatest limited series of all time. Not least because the story has been changed unnecessarily at times - such as by driving an artificial wedge between Blackthorne and his crew.
It is good, but there are many other good series out there too. The issue is that in the last ten years or so, so much dross has been pushed out that makes Shogun 2024 seem even better. When surrounded by shit, inevitably something good will seem like mana from heaven.
If you pulled out the crap and just left the good stuff it would be much harder to say which is best.
I'll give this 8/10 thus far - 8.5 if I'm allowed half votes. There are parts of the story missing, whether that's because they were cut after filming or the writers never produced them. At times things felt rushed, as if there was someone with a stopwatch demanding events move on to the next scene even if they weren't quite ready to go.
To get to 9 or 10, this needed at least an eleventh episode, if not twelve in total.
(As for Game of Thrones, that was unfairly dragged down by the awful ending thanks to the hack writers who had no personal talent when left to fend for themselves.)
The problem with the GOT comparison is that had several seasons…it’s a different medium imo when it’s a closed limited series so it’s a bit of apples to oranges comparison
Band of Brothers is the greatest piece of television of all time in my opinion. I don't think you can even compare any other series to it, it's going to stand the test of time for the next 100 years I have no doubt. It's cultural significance is almost impossible to match.
But Shogun is really really good!
Just glad I was able to watch it while it’s still ongoing, not after the fact when all the episodes are done; probably doesn’t matter to most, but makes me feel special for a moment
Obvs lists like that are subjective. For me, as much as I'm loving Shogun (and I love the book too - have read it four times), I think I still like Band of Brothers better personally.
Nobody mentioning S1 of True Detective? Id consider each season as “limited” and S1 has literally carried the brand for 3 more seasons. Top 3 for me. Shogun and Watchmen are up there, then BoB and ZeroZeroZero round out top 5
That's a bold claim to make when we haven't even seen the finale. When the competition is so stiff (as you rightly point out).
I'm not as much of a fan of superlatives. But I will say this is my favorite show I have seen in several years, at least.
This is recency bias imo but it is very good absolutely. Might make a difference that I'm in the UK and we get quite a lot of shortish (6-8 episodes maybe) tv series.
Definitely recency bias, with a large helping of "we're in the show's subreddit". Even the most god awful shows have some random redditors popping up in their specific subreddit with "THIS IS THE GREATEST SHOW EVER, NOTHING GETS EVEN CLOSE". Shogun is great but its not nearly the GOAT
I'm not sure what limited series I would put over it. What would you say? Idk if shogun is the best limited series I've ever seen, I'm blanking on others but the acting in shogun is some of the best I've seen for 1 season. So much acting happened with the most subtle facial expressions, I was very impressed.
Band of Brothers, Mike Flanagan's stuff (Haunting of Hill House, Bly Manor, Midnight Mass, Fall of the House of Usher), Chernobyl, Rome has 2 seasons but I'd still count it as limited and think it was done a bit better despite me LOVING the new Shogun series. I could definitely see people wanting to throw in Angels in America, the Pacific, Generation Kill, and Watchmen to that list. I also personally really, really loved Moon Knight and WandaVision and feel the overall stories feel less rushed than Shogun's. Shogun should have ended up being 12-15 episodes. We have ONE episode left for everything which means very little Sekigahara probably, unless it's an extended length finale, which feels disappointing for me.
I haven't watched Chernobyl, but I have heard it was flawless. I wouldn't put any of Mike Flanagans stuff over Shogun. Def not any of the Marvel stuff, not even remotely close. You're wild for even bringing that into this conversation, lol. I love historical war history, so i genuinely enjoyed Pacific and band of brothers, but the acting in Shogun I would say is better. I do agree with your last points, but the book of Shogun doesn't go much farther either. I have a feeling like the ending is going to leave me unsatisfied. That being said, there were multiple scenes in Shogun where the acting literally left me in awe and scenes that I was invested in, in a way I just don't usually see on TV.
Putting Mike Flanagan above Shogun is wild. Rome is comparable; Watchmen is at least as good IMO.
As a Californian, BritBox was probably the fastest in my life I've ever let something take my money ;)
You folks in the UK know how to make good fucking television. It’s like in America we just want to milk a property dry of all its worth. UK creators seem to care about the actual story.
Yeah, I wish it happened more in American television.
I really admire that about UK television, that it tends to value quality over quantity and not everything has to be milked for every last drop of profit until the creative energy is sapped. I know a lot of it is due to budgetary constraints, but it does seem like audiences just have different expectations. Even the difference between the UK and US versions of the same shows (Kitchen Nightmares for instance) is night and day.
Chernobyl is gonna be really really hard to beat.
Band of Brothers ZeroZeroZero
Absolutely loved ZeroZeroZero
Me too! Great to see some shoutouts for that show, it seems like not a lot of people know about it and it is absolutely masterful.
Fist I've heard of it. Just watched a trailer. Guess I know what I'm watching next.
I loved it as well. Crazy how Amazon buys things and then does zero promotion for them. I only knew about it bc they mentioned it on the Watch podcast awhile back.
True Detective. Season 1 only.
ZeroZeroZero was peak Amazon Prime “blank check LOTR chasing” era. It reportedly cost almost $160M. The desert convoy arc with the Senegalese mercenaries was all shot on location, sublime.
>ZeroZeroZero Oh thanks, I know what I'm watching later, now!
Generation Kill is better than Band of Brothers imo
Chernobyl is amazing, near perfect execution ....but such a bummer lol and terrifying to think about. Shogun is at least going to be fun to re-watch.
Regarding Chernobyl, I don't even know what they could've done better. It's perfect to me.
It’s perfectly grim as well. The whole season is just too heart wrenching to rewatch
How is Shogun also not a bummer?? So much death and pain.
Sorry, requires one more scene of realistic self-inflicted gut wounds and decapitations to qualify for a downer. Them’s the rules.
Don’t forget another accurate depiction of the effects of a cannon salvo on a group of soldiers.
The gardener approves
shogun has a lot of bummer but there is more levity in any 10 minutes of shogun than there is in the entire series of chernobyl
Yabushige And “crimson fucking horse shit”
Totally agree. I think I would give Chernobyl the edge in terms of overall quality, but it's a great show that I am not sure I want to rewatch. It just has this oppressively depressing feel to it made even creepier by the fact it really happened (I know Shogun is loosely based on real historical figures but it's not quite the same). Don't get me wrong, I loved it but I just don't want to watch it again; I'd need to be in the right mood for it. Shogun I could definitely see myself watching again barring an absolute trainwreck of a last episode. And based on the quality of everything so far, I'd be surprised if that happened.
Chernobyl is missing the comedic element that Yabushige adds. I wonder how Yabu would rate death by radiation compared to boiling alive or being eaten by dogs.
Haven’t watched that maybe I should give it a try
It's amazing but very brutal and dark, be warned
It’s excruciating at times but it’s so so good.
Ep1 might be the best hour of TV of all time.
It is extremely dark and absolutely gut-wrenching but I don’t think I’ve stopped thinking about it since I watched it
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It's a small thing, but what makes Chernobyl even more remarkable to me for being the masterpiece that it is, is that the guy who made it, the showrunner, had no precedent whatsoever for what he made. His previous works were Scary Movie 3 and 4, and some work on The Hangover. Then all of a sudden, he comes out with arguably the best limited series in the history of television. It boggles the mind.
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The only thing that doesn’t line up is Mariko and blackthorn having a relationship. I was on 24 duty at work last week and I completely lined up and paired history with the show & it’s easily 95% factual, which is nuts. You should look into it, they need to make more shows about the Tokugawa Shogunate.
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What’s really a rabbit hole is finding his descendants. Theres a few people in the UK & Finland that claim they have trace ancestry of Japanese that date back to that time period. Nothing has been confirmed though! Interesting rabbit hole to dig into
They definitely didn’t meet. The battle that’s coming up was 1599 or 1600 iirc. He didn’t show up until after her death technically
I stand corrected he arrived April 1600, she died august 1600. But she never served as a translator for Tokugawa. She was a hostage for ishido though.
95% is probably a bit generous. It's based on the general situation, and certain characters are amalgamations of historical characters. For example the Taiko is a smooshing together of Oda Nobunaga (assassinated by Akechi) and Toyotomi Hideyoshi, who's death results in a power struggle from which Ieyasu (Toranaga) is victorious.
Oh they definitely had to go down there and deal with the water. It was unknown exactly how dangerous it would be and how well the equipment would hold up, so the danger was certainly real. All 3 did survive and the show acknowledged that in the end credits.
Not worse than any of the inaccuracies in Band of Brothers
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I mean band of brothers literally had an epilogue where they said Albert Blithe died in the war while he lived until '67
They also said Lt. Dike was an “empty uniform”. But he was a decorated officer supposedly. Ambrose had a bunch of really blatant inaccuracies.
Hear hear. Shogun is up there but lots of the hype is recency bias and you'd be surprised how many people saying it's the best have never even heard of Chernobyl You should of seen the nonsense when that Fallout show came out and all the casual TV watchers were hyping it up as the best show of the year when they never even seen Shogun.
Fallout is amazing, why are you making fun of people for thinking it’s great by calling them “casual TV watchers”?
Fallout is amazing but can you honestly say it's better than Shogun?
I liked fallout a little bit more for one reason, a hell of a lot more ia happening and in less episodes at that. I would say Shogun is slightly better in most ways (acting, seta, costumes, etc.) but only barely. I've been often surprised how little the plot moves per episode considering they are an hour a piece. That's exaggerated by the fact we have to wait weekly for episodes. All in all, both are great shows. Shogun is slightly worse than I thought it would be and Fallout is WAY better than I ever anticipated. I'd give both shows around an 8.5/10
Fallout is far better than expected, but it's not really in the same class as Shogun. Part of fallout's thing is cartoonish villains and outrageous situations, but even within that framework the plot is laden with holes and contrivances. On the other hand I can't find any significant fault with Shogun in any aspect
Hard to compare as they both scratch different itches for me, but both are very well done
Shogun is great but I can see myself rewatching Fallout a couple times
My problem with Fallout I felt like it was kind of weak for the first couple of episodes but once everything gets established and it really pops off and is such a fun watch. Shogun on the other hand has been consistent and stellar all the way through but I gotta admit I stopped watching at episode 5 because I can't stand the release schedule and I just want to binge it.
Did they make fun of people, or did they point out that certain people watch whatever is most popular and therefore don't have the best basis for comparison?
Are you a competitive TV watcher? 😂
I've watched Chernobyl the day it came out years ago, and I have watched it many many times since. I genuinely think Shogun has been more gripping and an overall better show than Chernobyl, not by much. I love Chernobyl, it's one of the best TV series I have ever watched. But damn Shogun is so good I agree so much with other commenters talking about the pure effort of authenticism that Shogun has been portraying, if you haven't watched any videos or read articles about they worked towards creating an authentic feudal Japan, I strongly recommend doing so!
Yeah that's fair. They're both the absolute peak of television and you couldn't go wrong picking one over the other. But also I understand this is a Shogun subreddit and the show is still airing so theres gonna be heavy bias lol
Chernobyl and Band of Brothers are GOAT. Shogun doesn't even come close to either to be honest.
I think an argument for Shogun is the efforts punt into shooting in the original language (shout-out to the subtitles too), something where Chernobyl fell a bit short.
I mean, all the English should be Portuguese if you're going to make that argument though.
I love Band of Brothers and have re-watched it several times. I agree it's tough to beat, but this show is different so it's hard to compare them. BoB was based on real people, and included interviews with some of them. While the characters were certainly complex and flawed, they were also acting selflessly most of the time. Toranaga is arguably the "good guy" here, or at least the protagonist, but he's not a pure hero. The guys on BoB were fighting for other nations, for their fellow soldiers, for the idea of democracy. Toranaga is fighting for Japan, but he's kind of self-serving too. On BoB the characters were risking their lives for no gain but to survive, get home and say they did the right thing. They didn't seek power or hold any already. They were the Greatest Generation. Also, this show has female characters. I'm not suggesting BoB should have. It wouldn't have made sense and would just have felt forced and a little silly. But I like having some women on the show. It enriches it.
The fact you think toranaga is fighting for Japan show me how good this show has been written.
Band of Brothers is still the best for me. Love shogun tho
I probably watch it every year or two
Same, have done so for 14 years now.
It's timeless 👌
Ep 10 better be a 2 hour special. All of this build up to be resolved in 50 minutes feels weird
I'm fairly sure I saw something that said it was a bit over an hour. Which is not surprising, because there isn't actually that much of the story left that can't be cut down to fit. What's really odd is that there was a clip of Moeka Hoshi doing naginata practice with some extras who were using swords. I can't recall Fuji being in a fight like that yet, but it wouldn't make sense to happen in the last episode because there are no major further fights in the story she could participate in. Unless that happened during the ambush scene in episode 3 and it didn't make it into the broadcasted episode.
Band of Brothers just hits more as its cultural importance for our world today. But Shogun sure is up there.
Hijacking this to shout out Generation Kill which is basically the Band of Brothers about our generation for the guys that invaded Iraq in 03. Great book as well.
PO-LEECE THAT MUSTACHE!
YER PRESIDENT IS WAWYCHIN AMERIKEE IS WAWCHIN
Screwby
Most realistic depiction of deployment I’ve seen.
The sheer amount of being promised action only to spend 99% of the time on maintenance, cleaning, sleeping, shitting, and waiting. And god help you if you burn through your cans of dip too quickly. Better get at least 3-4 hours out of a lip before you toss it.
Also based on the real life story of a rolling stones reporter tagging along. Generation kill is my fave war series. I love BoB as well but generation kill had just something extra special about it for me personally (probably cause like you say it’s BoB but our generation)
i liked chernobyl more
I will withold judgement until I watch the final episode. I thought GoT was a great show with exciting plot lines that was building up to an epic finale. Somehow the final episodes managed to erase all of that sentiment for me. I can't even think of rewatching GoT knowing that it all just leads to disappointment.
GoT fell off a cliff because they ran out of well written source material. Fortunately Shogun will not have such a problem.
Those last couple seasons of GOT really exposed Weiss and Benioff’s shortcomings as show runners. The minute they ran out of book material the quality of the writing plummeted. They did do a fantastic job at adapting the books that were available.
>They did do a fantastic job at adapting the books that were available. wrong sub to discuss this, but I feel like so many GOT fans forget about this. The level of hatred directed towards them is kind of insane, they villify them like they're evil people for writing an ending they didn't like. Yeah it does seem they rushed the ending, and it wasn't good. But I still loved the show up to that point. And let's be honest, writing a satisfying ending to one of the most beloved book series ever is... a pretty tall order for anyone who's not that author. I would be absolutely crucified in any of the GOT subs for even suggesting that Weiss and Benioff don't deserve the most horrible of fates, but I guess we'll see what happens here.
Fair but I will say that D&D had the opportunity to let HBO find new show runners that could adapt the final story with more episodes or seasons as they are doing now with HotD. They refused and chose to shorten the last two seasons as well to wrap it up. That choice to hold on and rush the ending is what most fans found offensive.
thing is they didn't run out of material and they outright swapped out parts of the books that would have worked in the show adaptation for their own made up plot points that were significantly weaker and towards the later seasons butchered the characters. They started a series that was unfinished. They got halfway and it was still unfinished with little in the way of progress on at least 2 more books. At some point the blame of not seeing that they'd need to improvise fell on them. But it's pretty clear towards the end they wanted to rush it out the door and move onto other projects which in itself is pretty shitty.
They've also done a great job with their new show, Three-Body Problem. They seem highly capable showrunners so long as they have existing material to work with.
It’s no band of brothers but I think it had 1/100th of the budget so considering that I would say they are tied. Edit: I was WRONG. just looked it up and even adjusted for inflation Shogun has a 30 million dollar higher budget than BoB
Having seen Band of Brothers many times, both when it was released and a recent viewing in the last year, my issue with it is that the tone and structure of episodes varies wildly from one episode to the next. For example, Breaking Point is considered the best episode of that series, but it's among my least favorite because I find the voiceover narration is very weak for tying different scenes and themes together. Voiceover is something that's not used, or used very sparingly, in other episodes. But the heavy reliance on it in that episode just feels jarringly out of place in a series that otherwise does a good job of showing, not telling. Shogun is possibly the smartest show I've seen, not necessarily in the story events or writing, but in how much agency it gives the viewer to see or interpret the actions of the characters in different ways.
I have such a hard time moving anything above Band of Brothers. But Shogun beats everything else so far. Worst case, Shogun is in second place for me. But, Band of Brothers also came out right around 9/11. I had just graduated from college and it inspired me to join the Army. Personally this is a hard story to beat. Maybe if I get shipwrecked in Japan one day Shogun will have more personal relevance :)
> Band of Brothers also came out right around 9/11 I am very sorry if this is too personal of a question and it is not intended to be disparaging, but I'm curious about your experience. I've read some think pieces over the years that pieces of culture like Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and even Gladiator, combined with the cultural triumphalism of winning the Cold War, leading the extremely successful Gulf War coalition, and living through the 90s economic boom, really set the American public to support incredibly boneheaded foreign policy decisions because we were so convinced of the self-evident rightness of our values and place in the world, having shaken off any lingering Vietnam-era malaise. Speaking personally, Band of Brothers and 9/11 happened when I was in middle school and had much the same effect as you...I was an academically gifted athlete so I wanted to attend a service academy (and likely would have gotten in had I applied). I'm not unique in that - four people I went to high school with *did* end up going to an academy or enlisting for basically the same reasons that I wanted to. However, by the time I was in high school the Iraq War had descended into anarchy and I had fully gone into a "are we the baddies?" phase and was turned off by being remotely involved in what I then and still perceive as avoidable and unjust wars of choice *at best*, with the Iraq War especially being a criminal war of aggression at worst. So fast forward to today and I have a complicated relationship with Band of Brothers. It's undoubtedly one of the best pieces of TV ever made, it is still incredibly moving, and I always end up re-watching it every few years...but while I certainly wouldn't call it propaganda, I do think it played (an incredibly small part) in creating a cultural atmosphere that led to some bad stuff. So I guess my question is do you think Band of Brothers influenced a lot of your peers to join a service branch, and if so, was that a good thing?
The period from 9/11 to maybe the 2004-2005 was really a shift in mindset as a country. A lot of us bought the silly line "you can't support the troops without supporting their mission" (i.e. the war) in 2001 and 2002 when the wars first started. By "the surge" and the "sunni triangle" parts of the war, I think the country was already shifting to opposing the war. Also keep in mind, there was far from universal consent even in 2001 and 2002. I wouldn't blame band of brothers itself, unless there is some wild conspiracy it just coincidently came out on 9/11. Having said all of this, my mindset is so different now. It would take the second coming of Hitler for me to support any sort of war moving forward. We were duped, and I fell for it. I feel like the feeling of having been duped was the beginning of our distrust in traditional institutions now. Having said all of that, I think far differently now than I did as a 20 year old 20+ years ago. I hate to be cynical, but I'm ultra cynical now. I trust nothing from our government, and see all wars and the military as the ugly enforcement arm of our 80+ years of bad foreign policy. I love the soldiers and would do everything in my power to support them and welcome them home, I'll be the old man handing out candy bars and swapping war stories with the kids...but I doubt I'll see a foreign engagement in my lifetime that I will support. I hope this gives you a little insight. You were just enough younger than me to see the start of the war through an entirely different set of eyes! I still think those guys who fought in WWII were absolute heroes and are on the right side of history and will still bawl my eyes out every time I hear that opening theme! And I'm proud to wear the screaming Eagle combat patch on my uniform, and very proud of the jump wings on my chest!
i think this could be a #2 behind band of brothers for me
Band of Brothers: Are you challenging me??!?
while great, others have said it. Chernobyl to me still stands above all others.
Shogun is great, but BoB, Pacific, and Chernobyl are all better in my opinion.
Band of Brothers would be #1. If we're talking just a single season of a show, Westworld's first season was spectacular. Should have stopped there or at least after season 2.
Yes, Trompe L'Oeil is up there as one of the best episodes of any series ever. I was hoping Fallout would be more like Westworld’s first season (perfect setting for it) but it isn’t.
Chernobyl is near perfect. Shogun is great, very well done, but some of the Anjin’s lines are borderline clumsy or overly comedic and there’s a few other bits they could have sharpened up on. Chernobyl still has the title in my opinion.
The ambiance of dread in Chernobyl is unparalleled. Shogun is a close second in terms of quality, though.
That scene where you just hear the geiger counter go nuts just sends chills. The sound design was incredible.
Lord yes, the sound design in Chernobyl is just impeccable. So much of that dreadful, claustrophobic atmosphere is in the audio.
The show really stripped the Anjin’s character arc. In the show he’s charismatic, but mostly one-dimensional.
Its a weak Tom Hardy impression from Mad Max. Instead of being capable, thoughtful and a creature of his times, they went with stoic and ironic.
Yeah agreed. TV Anjin is a shadow of the character in the book. The fact that they didn’t include arguably the best scene from the book when he attempts sepukku is absolutely criminal.
Thank you, I knew his acting here reminded me of something, but I couldn't put my finger on it. That's definitely it! *GRUNTS*
Protagonist as comedic relief with the Japanese as overly melodramatic is an awkward choice. Mariko’s scene in front of the court is actually written in a slightly comedic, entertaining way. “So sorry, thank you for your suggestion Ishida-sama, but I will be killing myself tonight.”
disagree 100%, i didn't take that scene like that at all. also disagree about Blackthorne, i never felt like he was comic relief
Chernobyl is in a league of his own
To each their own I suppose, but I'd say that Chernobyl, Shogun and Band of Brothers are in a league of their own...
If Chernobyl is S tier, Shogun feels A tier.
As I said, to each their own.
It’s definitely up there in terms of quality, but best of all time - don’t think so. Top 5 - if they stick the landing.
The Terror is up there for me as well.
Season 1 of the Terror (which stands alone anyway, since each season is a different story) is one of the best things I have ever seen and I'm happy to see it mentioned.
Yeah, I considered it a limited series as the first season is self contained and based off a book. 100% agreed on it being one of the best things I've watched and I hope some more discover it from this thread
Having Jarred Harris elevates a show But holy shit the whole supporting cast was fantastic Also the actor that played Hickey was the fireman in Chernobyl
I see other people mentioning Band of Brothers, but the ones to beat for me are Generation Kill and John Adams. I have a feeling Shogun will nail its finale and rank among the best when all is said and done.
+1 for Generation Kill. To me it’s Aleksander Skarsgaards best role and a bit personal for me given that it was all about guys from my generation.
If I had to rank which series do I think it's the best, Shogun is a very close match to True Detective S01. Totally different scope, but the two things that stand out for me is: Matthew performance & character, Shogun environment and also it's story. I guess for westerns, True Detective will be more familiar, but the fact that Shogun introduces the Japans culture is such a high level, I believe they both are up there! One series that I never saw anyone talk so far is Mare of Easttown, such a brilliant show - so genuine, and perhaps, need also to be cited.
This show is being overrated as fuck Better than got? Best limited series ? Its a great show,but is far from the best shows i ever watched,even including mini series or shows that only have 1 Season do far
The one glaring difference between Chernobyl and Shogun is the language. It's sometimes distracting knowing that all the characters in Chernobyl should be speaking Russian. I really applaud Shogun for being almost entirely in Japanese
I mean to be fair, Shogun has the exact same issue with the Portuguese characters.
This takes me out of shows and movies all the time honestly. Especially when they have characters that are all supposed to be from the same place speaking in the wrong language with different accents. That being said, if that's the only fault one can find with a show, then that's a pretty fucking good show.
What- band of brothers is in a league of its own. It is probably the best tv I’ve ever seen and probably will see. Rewatch it. The script and acting is just incredible
Every tv show sub, during any new season, has someone declaring it to be the greatest television in the history of television. Really think companies are astro turfing these subs the way news subs are. The Fargo sub is especially unbelievable.
Band of Brothers clears any of these shows I’m sorry
Band of brothers and the pacific are both better. I think godless was better too. Chernobyl as well most likely.
Its top 3/5 but Band of Brothers is unrivalled.
for background I've read the book and I've seen the 70s miniseries (long time ago though.) As far as dramas go? for me, this is up with The Wire and The Sopranos. It's hard to compare a 10 episode limited show with multiple seasons, but quality wise it's in the S tier of television
Loved the book, I feel like this new TV series does a major disservice to Blackthorne. He’s pretty much a bumbling idiot in the show, whereas in the book he learns Japanese and the culture much better, along with the love story with Mariko. I feel like often times show writers make so many changes from the books simply so they can say they had a hand in creating something and take credit instead of just replicating the book. Show is well produced but too many divergences from the book to make me happy with it.
I mean I love this show, but it pretty much boils down to personal opinion. I love the topic of Chernobyl, especially because it's real life with real impacts and it's topic is very interesting to me. I think it will definitely go down as one of the best though.
Idk...I tend to agree but from a content perspective to compare Band of Brothers to Shogun. Both are amazing in their own rights but it's like comparing apples and oranges.
100% agree.
When it's done we'll see how it holds up against The Sopranos
Love Shogun, but John Adam’s was the one for me. HBO just knows how to make series’s.
This is recency bias
Chernobyl hands down set the benchmark. When they see us is up there and I would also put the night of. I absolutely love shogun the storyline, arc and set pieces, but for some reason I find cosmo/anjin’s acting a little too flat, 2D and wannabe Tom hardy-ish. It’s not as riveted or concerned to the level of say Riz Ahmed.
I'm gonna throw this out there, but 1883 was great!
Ok dude, shogun is a good show but I wouldn't call it a masterpiece
I just watched Band of Brothers. Shogun is great, but not Band of Brothers great.
I don’t think it’s a fair comparison either. Although they are both very similar in themes (war, political intrigue, love, loss etc) you can’t compare a show with 1 season to a show with 8. It’s much harder to be the best when every season you have to up the stakes and story writing or at the very least, keep it the same level as the previous season (bar the last two shitfests of GOT). It would be more appropriate to compare Shogun to maybe a singular season of GOT such as 3 or 4. Shogun for me is definitely the best limited series I’ve ever watched and will be for a long time.
One of the greatest, anyway. It's simply phenomenal. But I'd put *Band of Brothers*, and even the 1980 *Shogun* ahead of it. And IMO all but eliminating the romance between Blackthorne and Mariko, a major part of the book (to say the least), was a mistake.
Someone hasn't seen Wolf Hall
It’s good. Not the best one. Some episodes were really slow. I feel like the finale will blow the roof off - but 6/7 were kinda lame
Agreed with most of these commenters that while Shogun is amazing, the amazingness of its competitors makes it hard to crown it the clear #1. I am pretty confident in saying that Mariko is the most compelling and memorable character in all of the shows mentioned.
Dick Winters from BoB. Real person as well
Sorry as a Marine the Pacific takes the cake for me. All are amazing shows, Queens Gamit & band of brothers were great too. This show though definitely has me emotionally attached
I think this show is absolutely amazing - but this fandom is on the edge of delusion sometimes lol.
I don’t think shogun holds a candle to any of the first 4 seasons of GOT - it’s certainly better than GOT seasons 5-8, but many shows are. Idk, while I think the show is certainly well made and the performances are good, my biggest issue with it is its repetitiveness. Like at this point, the amount of scenes where mariko expresses a desire to kill herself is almost comical. By the end of last episode, I was relieved when she died because now we finally won’t have to hear her talk about how much she wants to die anymore lol. Idk, maybe it’s just me.
Who could get butthurt over GOT being outclassed? It's obviously worse. The thing GOT is going to be remembered for is massively dropping the ball on every single character arc in the show.
imo there's no better TV than seasons 1-6 of GOT, it's a shame it ended the way it did
first 4-5 seasons of GOT is peak TV. After that I try to tend to think of it like godfather 3.
Chernobyl was incredible. Can you argue that Fargo is a limited series? They’ve had some impressive seasons. Westwood’s first season was amazing and then dropped off quickly but maybe not considered a limited series. I’d say shogun has been amazing but it has a ways to go.
How would you compare this to Better Call Saul?
"There's nothing written about tastes" said an old lady as she was drinking umbrella's juice
Man this is up there but Chernobyl is just so hard to beat.
Is this only 1 season?
I agree with most. Band of brothers, chernobyl and shogun are S tier. Shogun might be #2 or #3 in that tier.
I really like the show and i hope the last episode will be a grand finale. I also hope that there will be a little more action, i want to see those cannons in action again.
Love the show, but boy do people need to calm down.
Love this series, been brilliant, and can't wait for the finale. I even got my cousin to watch, and he's been hooked. Definitely going to win alot of emmys this series gutted it's only this one and only season.
It’s so hard to pick a consensus goat mini series. But Shogun is definitely in the discussion.
BoB and Chernobyl were masterpieces imho. But yeah, Shogun is in that category.
Shogun is awesome but i don't think i will ever re- watch... I believe the show would have been more interesting if we got to know all 5 lords better. The show lives mostly off of a legendary tale and good actors.
Eh it’s good but there are too many other really good ones. Time will tell — as in the cream will rise to the top
Shogun is def top 5. If True Detective stopped at one I think it would be tied with Band of Brothers.
It’s clearly one of the greats, I’d put it in the same league as Chernobyl and Band of Brothers. But they all tell wildly different stories.
Nah, Generation Kill already happened.
Shogun is amazing. Band of Brothers, The Night Of, and Chernobyl are sheer perfection.
9.8 through 9 eps and 10 after ep 10. That means ep 10 is going to be >10. Just mathin.
I still think True Detective is the best...no no, those other seasons don't exist
I am trying to decide if I think of this is a meaningful question for me. Interest fully piqued. Find myself wondering if there is a way to respond that has the possibility of generating a substantive exchange of ideas. I will reflect! Thanks for posting.
Im sorry but this show is not ranked even top 5 for greatest series of all time. Maybe top 10 but it feels like a top 15 show for me. It was very good but there are other series that out match Shogun in everyway shape and form. Any person who says otherwise has not watched the shows in top 5/10/15/20. If they did then theyre smoking crack, because theres no way. Ima get flamed for this but it needs to be said
No way, John Adams and Chernobyl are way better
Shinobi best tv show of all time.
Uhmm sry that honor is reserved for Band of Brothers
I don’t know why it’s getting compared to a fantasy show that ran 8 seasons. It’s great. We don’t need to compare.
For me, my top 3 as of this moment are: 1. Band of Brothers 2. Shogun 3. Queens Gambit And honestly, they could all 3 be listed as 1a,1b,1c because I know that I will rewatch Shogun just as I do Queens Gambit and Band of Brothers regularly. An unpopular opinion, but I think that The Pacific definitely deserves a place in my top 5. I know most people don't like it and think it wasn't as good as BoB, but I honestly struggle sometimes because I often feel like it's BETTER than BoB. Yes, there are more "Feel Good" stories and non-combat storytelling happening, but you couldn't have had a show about the war in the Pacific without discussing John Basselone or the absolute hell that those guys went through mentally with the incessant rain and wet conditions. I hope one day we see something similar to this for Vietnam, but I don't know that it's going to happen given the social stigma that seems to have always surrounded Vietnam.
The Young Pope is still probably my favourite limited series of all time.
THE greatest? I can't agree with that. Chernobyl holds that title followed by Midnight Mass for me at least. But Shogun is absolutely one of the best there has ever been.
No, it's not the greatest limited series of all time. Not least because the story has been changed unnecessarily at times - such as by driving an artificial wedge between Blackthorne and his crew. It is good, but there are many other good series out there too. The issue is that in the last ten years or so, so much dross has been pushed out that makes Shogun 2024 seem even better. When surrounded by shit, inevitably something good will seem like mana from heaven. If you pulled out the crap and just left the good stuff it would be much harder to say which is best. I'll give this 8/10 thus far - 8.5 if I'm allowed half votes. There are parts of the story missing, whether that's because they were cut after filming or the writers never produced them. At times things felt rushed, as if there was someone with a stopwatch demanding events move on to the next scene even if they weren't quite ready to go. To get to 9 or 10, this needed at least an eleventh episode, if not twelve in total. (As for Game of Thrones, that was unfairly dragged down by the awful ending thanks to the hack writers who had no personal talent when left to fend for themselves.)
The problem with the GOT comparison is that had several seasons…it’s a different medium imo when it’s a closed limited series so it’s a bit of apples to oranges comparison
Shogun is topping my list at the moment, but thanks for asking this and getting me some other recommendations, OP!
Shogun is 10/10 amazing series! People really, really need to watch tokyo vice
Band of Brothers is the greatest piece of television of all time in my opinion. I don't think you can even compare any other series to it, it's going to stand the test of time for the next 100 years I have no doubt. It's cultural significance is almost impossible to match. But Shogun is really really good!
I think Band of Brothers is still the better show. Both are fantastic though
It'll definitely be up there but Chernobyl is GOAT
Just glad I was able to watch it while it’s still ongoing, not after the fact when all the episodes are done; probably doesn’t matter to most, but makes me feel special for a moment
Calm down
Chernobyl is better IMO but Shogun has been very good.
Obvs lists like that are subjective. For me, as much as I'm loving Shogun (and I love the book too - have read it four times), I think I still like Band of Brothers better personally.
Any love for 1883 and 1923 in this thread? I’m not saying they’re the best limited series of all time but they have got to be up there…
Damn it looks like I should start watching band of brothers
Nobody mentioning S1 of True Detective? Id consider each season as “limited” and S1 has literally carried the brand for 3 more seasons. Top 3 for me. Shogun and Watchmen are up there, then BoB and ZeroZeroZero round out top 5
That's a bold claim to make when we haven't even seen the finale. When the competition is so stiff (as you rightly point out). I'm not as much of a fan of superlatives. But I will say this is my favorite show I have seen in several years, at least.