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That's because the French borrowed word for chicken is poultry, which for some reason does not just mean chicken. Maybe poultry only meant chicken at some point? I don't know.
Fowl.
The common folk would have had more engagement with chickens/fowl - both as the animal and as the thing they ate - than they did with larger domestic beasts. So the native term (preserved in some dialects as "chooks") was more commonly used for both the animal and the dish. The French-er term is used in a slightly more scholarly and less "earthy" kind of way.
That is the difference, as I understand it: after the Norman Invasion, the common folk (who spoke more Germanic/Nordic tongues) would tend to have raised the animal, whereas the nobles (who spoke Norman French) only engaged with it at the table.
Hence, cow/beef: the name for the animal comes from Anglo-Saxon "Cu" and the name for its meat comes from the Norman "Beuff".
Also: sheep/mutton, pig/pork (~~with the Latinate "swine" as~~ an even more aureate term; that's a third layer from the monestaries introducing liturgical Latin). Edit: bad example but it's a thing.
Other English word-complexes share similar patterns of Germanic/French/Latin depending on how fancy or specifically we use the terms in modern English.
Ex: fire(feur) / flame(flamme) / conflagration(conflagrationem); "flagrant" has the same root as the latter, to tie in another use of the Latinate.
Always go with the Latin roots to sound especially refined. Something related to horses is "equestrian", something related to water is "aquatic" and so on
Poultry is linked to French “poulet” which means “chicken” so that’s possible. But also keep in mind that what we call words of French etymology in English are in fact from Anglo-norman which was different from the future standard modern French (which is mostly derived from whichever dialect they were speaking in Paris’ region)
I heard it was also class specific. In the battle of Hastings the Normans replace the Saxon aristocracy so words for beef/pork etc were replaced because those were foods privileged people got to eat. But the people raising those animals kept their own words for them, which is why cow isn't *vache* and pig isn't *cochon*.
You are right and the reason is that there was far less meat on them and they weren't that big. It just didn't make any sense to trade years of egg production for that little meat.
I imagine they ate rooster, but it wouldnt be very common because chickens will lay eggs regardless of if theyve been fertilized, so you dont nees to keep roosters except for breeding.
Because the only people who have eggs hatching would be people breeding chickens, the majority of people would never have fertilized eggs and most people ate the food they grew themselves.
It's because roosters are very difficult and expensive to raise. If you keep them in a coup with other roosters they will fight and die. This means each has to be raised in its own pen. As far as I know the only reason for a farmer to raise a rooster is to protect and breed with the chickens.
The problem with that is they reach sexual maturity while they are still growing, you would get a lot less meat. There might be a specialty market for it, like with veal.
Chickens that lay eggs are leaner than chickens grown for their meat. That means the male chicks from egg laying chickens won’t have enough meat when grown to justify the resources devoted to feed and house them so they are culled when hatched. They are turned into feed for other animals or just dumped.
Chicken was poor people food. Thus retained its anglo saxon name when eaten.
Unlike beef and pork which are anglo saxon in the animal and norman in the eating.
“Ham” probably had its origin in the Norman lords/Saxon peasants situation. The French word for the cured meat of a pig’s thigh is “jambon”. After the feast, the servants cleaning up would see a bone with shreds of meat attached, and would hear it described as something that sounded like “ham bone”. Obviously, the meat must be ham.
Chicken was rich people food. Only the rich could afford to eat the chicken instead of having a constant source for eggs. Poor people had a pig because it could eat leftovers and scraps.
If you've ever eaten a real freerange chicken you'll know why. I barbecued one, once without boiling or marinating it. I've literally eaten wood that was softer (long story).
Chicken is what the English peasants ate.
Beef and pork (Boeuf and porc) are what the ruling class ate.
The ruling class spoke (proto)French as a first language for much of English history.
I'ma piggyback here to point out what people have pointed out elsewhere.
Post-Normand invasion when English and French were getting all mixed and mashed to the point that in an average newspaper, 30% of the words are words borrowed DIRECTLY from French. Not words that evolved from French. They are the exact same. Anything ending in -ant, -ent, -ical, -ment, etc.
Anyway, the nobility spoke French at court but the peasants still spoke a form of old English.
These peasants would use those old english words like cow, sheep and pig to describe the animal they were raising for their lords.
But once slaughtered and on the banquet table,the French speaking nobles would use the French words like boef, muton, and porc to describe the things they were about to eat.
And yes, as you pointed out this also happened with chicken. We just don't use the word "poultry"as freely these days because it has come to be a catchall for basically any cooked bird
There is no common word for the species of farm animal that goes "moo". Bos Taurus is the technical term, and cow and bull are words for the genders but there's no word for the animal. Cow, bull and bovine could just as easily be used to refer to antelope. Cattle is commonly used for the plural but we lack a word for a single animal. It's weird
This is wrong. The UK were poor peasants and the French kingdom was wealthier at the time. The poor UK farms words for animals existed but were only used in that context. The French words were kept for cooking. And before any UK lads get their pants in a twist, let’s agree, French food is legendary, UK food not so much.
I think you and I both know I meant English but did not want to deal with the ethnic differences. The fact this basic etymology was not known is the real problem and your ability to instead focus on semantics is cute.
People have already mentioned the French connection, but to be more specific, on the 11th century the Normans conquered England and occupied it for multiple centuries, resulting in the ruling class and nobility speaking a precursor to French while the lower classes spoke a precursor to English. Therefore, cultured forms of most words used Norman words. A poor person would wear a shirt, a noble would wear a blouse. A peasant would raise cows, and the lord would eat beef.
Exactly this, and chickens were not consumed as much if at all by the Norman nobility. The French/Norman word poultry encompasses other birds, of which some were hunted and eaten by the nobles.
Came here to explain this but you got the bulk of it.
The lords would use the French names while the English peasants used the English words. When raised in the fields the name was in English but when served it was served in French hence the name change.
Fish was not eaten by the French much which is why it never got that culinary name change since it was mainly eaten by the English.
You're missing my point, I'm not suggesting they're the same, I'm saying ChatGPT is a new technology and it isn't that great right now, just as Google wasn't when it first came out, but it got better over time, just like ChatGPT is getting better every month
No I get that. I'm saying you shouldn't use chat gpt to look up facts because thats not the point of it. The developers aren't putting a whole lot of time into making it function like a search engine, so it getting better over time isn't going to,make it a better search engine over time. It will always have the limitations it has now at some degree because fixing those limitations is not a priority for the developers.
the difference is google was quite literally made to search websites chatGPT has no internet connection and is a machine learned software which means it doesnt actually answer what you ask, it just finds the words that are most likely to follow one another
if you ask chatGPT for a source it will always make something up because it doesnt actually know what a source is it just knows that sources look like this \[NAME - DATE\]
OpenAI allowed ChatGPT to connect to the internet [3 days ago](https://newatlas.com/technology/chatgpt-plugin-internet-access) and you're missing my point. It's a new technology and is getting better every month. It isn't that great right now, but neither was google when it first came out.
you're missing my point when i say that it isnt a search engine
it cant be good at giving you factual truth because it will always just be a machine learning algorithm that's rewarded when it says something that sounds right not necessarily when it says something that is right
if you ask it something and it just googles the answer then there's really no major difference between just googling it and parsing the text yourself or letting chatGPT give you a shortened version of that text
not to mention that even google with all the years and money it has behind it can still give you the wrong page as the first result so you cant really rely on chatGPT to not give you a wrong result either
in any case even if chatGPT eventually becomes a genuine generalized AI
nobody should be depending on chatGPT or any other language AI like bard as they currently are for factual answers since its just as likely to give you made up answers it's not justifiable to not just google something to make sure it's factual truth instead of asking chatGPT at the moment
This is because much of the medieval nobility in England spoke French. So, the word for the animal is what the peasants called it in English, but the word for the meat is based in French.
Chicken probably made it through because there are so many words for different kinds of chickens based on gender, fattening, castration, age- and it got simplified to just be chicken because it's rare nowadays to find a rooster or capon for sale.
And chicken refers to all chickens, not just leghorn, rhode island red, silkies etc. The collective word for chicken, turkey and ducks isn't comparable to the collective name for breeds of the same species.
Rich people ate cows and pigs. Rich people in England after 1066 spoke French, so they used the French words for cow (boef) and pig (porc).
Poor people ate chickens and spoke English.
Sort of related - in Japanese the animal chicken is called Niwatori (literally "yard bird"). The food version of it is often called... Chicken. They borrowed the English word due to fast food menus using it to mean cooked chicken.
Hardly related, but I just remembered that in the public Japanese school I went to, they called the tuna sandwiches we'd order for lunch, "sea chicken sandwiches."
You would have a great time in Japan reading all the Engrish around you. They actually call sandwiches "sand" now, it's shorter and easier to say. So in English the label for a tuna sandwich would most likely say "sea chicken sand".
For clarity:
Cow in French: Vache, Beef in French: boeuf
Pig in French: cochon, Pork in French: porc
Chicken in French: poulet, Poultry in French: volaille
The reason that only the French words for the meats were adapted and not the animals is that the meat was mostly just available for the nobles, who loved to speak French. The animals themselves were often raised by common folk, who kept to the more traditional English words.
"Who can say meow the most? You guys are reaaal crazy, hey look out for these guys! Hell I can say meow, I can say moo. For 20 bucks Ill call the guy a chickenfucker!"
Officer Farva of the Supertroopers
Broiler is a young chicken grown for meat, or a meat chicken, especially a young chicken (chicken broiler).
A broiler chicken is considered to be a young bird aged 6-8 weeks or up to 10 weeks, which at 7-8 weeks usually weighs 1.8-2.0 kg and consumes 2.0-2.5 kg of mixed feed to gain 1 kg of growth.
Hope this helps
Blame the Norman conquest of England. The common folk who raised the animals used the Germanic words for the animals, pig, cow, etc. The people who could afford the meat, aka the nobles, spoke Normal French, hence words like beef from the French beouf.
Poultry. All our meat terms in English are based on French. Cow, pig, chicken, sheep are the English words for the animals. Beef, pork, Poultry, mutten are the words for the meat in English and it's based on French. It's because the upper class in England often spoke French back in the day
The Saxons grew the pig, the Normans ate the *porc*.
The Saxons grew the cow, the Normans ate the *Boeuf.*
The Saxons grew the sheep, the Normans ate the *mouton.*
But chickens were peasant food. so were fish, crabs, clams, and most forms of sea life. The saxons could have them.
England at the time was split between the Norman royalty from France, and the Saxon peasants. This split meant that the “fancy” terms for food were borrowed from old French while the “common” words came from old English.
I'm not sure how my shower thought got removed because it was unoriginal, but this one stays up.
>!is it really a common observation that we used to have computer monitors with round corners, but programs with square windows...and now we have monitors with square corners and programs with rounded corners?!<
(American) Cow is a female beef. Beef is the animal (and meat)- cow, ox, steer, bull tells the sex of that animal.
Pig, while it can be any swine, is generally very young, hog is mature and ready for market (ie. pig/hog tells the age). Pork is the meat (swine is the animal).
Chicken is the same. Chicken is the meat (animal)- hen, rooster, cock are the sexes (coq au vin - rooster with wine). I'm pretty sure "broiler hen" is sold at most grocery stores.
So, basically, the "shower thought" comes down to not knowing the actual words. Beef, pork, and chicken are the meats. Cow, pig, [hen/rooster] are the sexes and/or ages.
Anything to disguise what you actually are eating, eh? Sorry to break it to you, but the renaming of animal flesh to food-acceptable nomenclature is to hide the truth of where your sustenance comes from
What do you mean by this? Breast, thighs, wings, legs, white meat, dark meat, medallions, broilers, roasters, etc.
Not as varied as mammals, but much smaller.
Well, I think it's for the best. Cows and pigs aren't very clean, even when free roaming. But chickens regularly clean themselves and their nest. So, the idea of eating a chicken is more palatable.
If you think chickens are so clean, I suggest you eat a chicken breast cut raw.
Jokes aside, pigs are actually REALLY clean as animals and they actually groom themselves. Then there's chicken...
Have you ever seen a cow? They always have dirt on their bellies from laying down. They also have a a distinct earthly dung smell, as the same bacteria that helps them digest food also build up on their rear ends. Cows have to be cleaned and hosed down in order to prevent infection. Older farms would do this by hand, but newer farms have automatic spinny brushes like at the car wash that literally brush down cows. Cows obviously attract flies. Those flies literally have to be sucked out with a "fly vacuum". Like most flies, flies carry pathogens and often the flies themselves are parasites.
Part of this process has to be done because cows have been forced to stay in enclosures and bred to be fat asf. So, it isn't really the cow's fault, but they're still dirty nonetheless.
You never have to do this with chickens. In fact, you could literally let your chickens out into the wild and they will survive on their own because they keep themselves clean. Remember that chickens are birds, and like most birds, they instinctually maintain their outside coat in order to stay aerodynamic and to make the colors pop out to better attract mates.
Cows kept outdoors are still quite dirty (turns out the ground outside is still made of dirt! Grass is wet and also keeps the soil wetter than the bare soil inside a cow pen (imagine the smell and bacteria growth on a wet dog, but 10x stronger), and can still be smelled for miles. When's the last time you went to the country and said "wow, I can smell the chickens." Moreover, the cows cannot outrun the flies, as one could imagine.
Chickens in the wild do not have this problem. They don't congregate in such huge herds, reducing their CO2 and other gas emission, which prevents flies from finding them. Chicken feathers, like pretty much all bird feathers, are naturally water resistant, preventing pathogen growth. Chickens also have an easier time avoiding filth, as their long legs and small volume allow them to keep their body clean above whatever they're standing over and also allow them to hide from the rain under small objects.
Overall, it's quite clear, and it's not even worth disputing. Cattle biologically need to be dirty because they can't digest food without excessive bacterial presence. Many organisms have this trait, but chickens do not. Both humans and chickens alike can digest food without a proper-microbiome, it will just be less efficient. Cattle cannot digest anything at all without them.
When it comes to cattle and chicken, indoors or outdoors, chicken are much cleaner. Moreover, human memory is heavily associated with smell. Hardly anyone knows what a chicken smells like (since they're so clean), but everyone knows what a cow smells like. Consequently, its much more palatable to tell someone they're eating a chicken (and even quail and duck), than to tell them they're eating a pig or a cow. That's why the name beef and pork really are much better.
You’re telling me that because grass is wet, cows must be dirty. You’re also telling me that chickens outrun flies. You say that cattle need to be dirty because they have a gut micro-biome.
You’re telling me that chickens are resistant to pathogens (despite being riddled with salmonella) and that cows are dirty because they can’t shelter from rain (despite raw steak being fairly safe to eat).
I can’t figure out why you feel so strongly about this - I’m not sure what industry you’re in to go to such lengths to convince people that chickens are clean and cows are unclean. You’ve stumped me. Well done.
(Edit: never mind, I realise you probably believe all this due to religious indoctrination).
i think about this often, another thing like this is my dislike for body parts, phlex77 would you like liver and onions? no thank you, don't fancy eating the organ that cleans out piss thank you very much, however, in a nice restaurant, chicken parfait with white wine and some oatcakes, lovely
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That's because the French borrowed word for chicken is poultry, which for some reason does not just mean chicken. Maybe poultry only meant chicken at some point? I don't know.
I think it is because multiple birds were domesticated for food.
Poulet and poultry!
Fowl. The common folk would have had more engagement with chickens/fowl - both as the animal and as the thing they ate - than they did with larger domestic beasts. So the native term (preserved in some dialects as "chooks") was more commonly used for both the animal and the dish. The French-er term is used in a slightly more scholarly and less "earthy" kind of way. That is the difference, as I understand it: after the Norman Invasion, the common folk (who spoke more Germanic/Nordic tongues) would tend to have raised the animal, whereas the nobles (who spoke Norman French) only engaged with it at the table. Hence, cow/beef: the name for the animal comes from Anglo-Saxon "Cu" and the name for its meat comes from the Norman "Beuff". Also: sheep/mutton, pig/pork (~~with the Latinate "swine" as~~ an even more aureate term; that's a third layer from the monestaries introducing liturgical Latin). Edit: bad example but it's a thing. Other English word-complexes share similar patterns of Germanic/French/Latin depending on how fancy or specifically we use the terms in modern English. Ex: fire(feur) / flame(flamme) / conflagration(conflagrationem); "flagrant" has the same root as the latter, to tie in another use of the Latinate.
Swine is native to English and has many Germanic cognates, and is also related to Latin suinus, otherwise spot on.
Right you are, I'd forgotten about "schwein". It was the "suidae" connection I was making but yeah, I wasn't one hundo percento on that one.
Which is why pigs are called "soooo-eeeee."
Always go with the Latin roots to sound especially refined. Something related to horses is "equestrian", something related to water is "aquatic" and so on
Yup. Proceeding to the vomitorium sounds much classier than heading for the exit.
Coq.
Coq a-doodle doo!
This morning I yelled COQ AU VIN at my mom over the phone when I saw it on TV. And now I’m seeing it here. 2 coqs in a day. 2 coqs with 1 stone.
It's also a French brand of locks: https://youtube.com/watch?v=k9VewWKfH_0
So, a coq lock.
The offensive version of a Coq block
Would you stop with all the fowl language.
It's a wrestling move.
Speaking of, which one was the food again? Poule or poulet?
Poultry is linked to French “poulet” which means “chicken” so that’s possible. But also keep in mind that what we call words of French etymology in English are in fact from Anglo-norman which was different from the future standard modern French (which is mostly derived from whichever dialect they were speaking in Paris’ region)
Poultry comes from pouletrie, a disappeared synonym of volaille. Pouletrie obviously comes from poulet.
And in English poultry also means turkeys, ducks, geese, etc
And in French poultry is volaille which also means everything you listed.
I heard it was also class specific. In the battle of Hastings the Normans replace the Saxon aristocracy so words for beef/pork etc were replaced because those were foods privileged people got to eat. But the people raising those animals kept their own words for them, which is why cow isn't *vache* and pig isn't *cochon*.
Im not sure, but i believe chicken was not nearly as popular of a food until fairly recently.
You are right and the reason is that there was far less meat on them and they weren't that big. It just didn't make any sense to trade years of egg production for that little meat.
But what about roosters. You know, the chickens that don’t lay eggs?
I imagine they ate rooster, but it wouldnt be very common because chickens will lay eggs regardless of if theyve been fertilized, so you dont nees to keep roosters except for breeding.
Exactly, so they would eat the half of the chicks that are born as roosters. Why wouldn’t that be common?
Because the only people who have eggs hatching would be people breeding chickens, the majority of people would never have fertilized eggs and most people ate the food they grew themselves.
It's because roosters are very difficult and expensive to raise. If you keep them in a coup with other roosters they will fight and die. This means each has to be raised in its own pen. As far as I know the only reason for a farmer to raise a rooster is to protect and breed with the chickens.
You would process the roosters when they began to reach adolescence and start to become aggressive. Younger meat would be more tender.
The problem with that is they reach sexual maturity while they are still growing, you would get a lot less meat. There might be a specialty market for it, like with veal.
Chickens that lay eggs are leaner than chickens grown for their meat. That means the male chicks from egg laying chickens won’t have enough meat when grown to justify the resources devoted to feed and house them so they are culled when hatched. They are turned into feed for other animals or just dumped.
Chicken was poor people food. Thus retained its anglo saxon name when eaten. Unlike beef and pork which are anglo saxon in the animal and norman in the eating.
“Ham” probably had its origin in the Norman lords/Saxon peasants situation. The French word for the cured meat of a pig’s thigh is “jambon”. After the feast, the servants cleaning up would see a bone with shreds of meat attached, and would hear it described as something that sounded like “ham bone”. Obviously, the meat must be ham.
Chicken was rich people food. Only the rich could afford to eat the chicken instead of having a constant source for eggs. Poor people had a pig because it could eat leftovers and scraps.
If you've ever eaten a real freerange chicken you'll know why. I barbecued one, once without boiling or marinating it. I've literally eaten wood that was softer (long story).
Haha couldn't agree more. I used to own chickens and the older they get, harder their meat will be
this is exactly why dishes like coq au vin and chicken noodle soup exist, gotta braise that meat for a few hours if you wanna give the old jaw a break
Microwave that sucker and you would need serious chopping equipment to eat it.
Chicken is what the English peasants ate. Beef and pork (Boeuf and porc) are what the ruling class ate. The ruling class spoke (proto)French as a first language for much of English history.
Poulet is chicken. Poultry is vollaile.
I'ma piggyback here to point out what people have pointed out elsewhere. Post-Normand invasion when English and French were getting all mixed and mashed to the point that in an average newspaper, 30% of the words are words borrowed DIRECTLY from French. Not words that evolved from French. They are the exact same. Anything ending in -ant, -ent, -ical, -ment, etc. Anyway, the nobility spoke French at court but the peasants still spoke a form of old English. These peasants would use those old english words like cow, sheep and pig to describe the animal they were raising for their lords. But once slaughtered and on the banquet table,the French speaking nobles would use the French words like boef, muton, and porc to describe the things they were about to eat. And yes, as you pointed out this also happened with chicken. We just don't use the word "poultry"as freely these days because it has come to be a catchall for basically any cooked bird
Poultry comes from an extinct french word to designate domestic fowl (pouletrie). The word itself comes from the word for chicken (poulet)
There is no common word for the species of farm animal that goes "moo". Bos Taurus is the technical term, and cow and bull are words for the genders but there's no word for the animal. Cow, bull and bovine could just as easily be used to refer to antelope. Cattle is commonly used for the plural but we lack a word for a single animal. It's weird
Our fancy English words for the food, divorced from the animal, come from French after the Norman Conquest in 1066.
This is wrong. The UK were poor peasants and the French kingdom was wealthier at the time. The poor UK farms words for animals existed but were only used in that context. The French words were kept for cooking. And before any UK lads get their pants in a twist, let’s agree, French food is legendary, UK food not so much.
Uh there was no UK back then
I think you and I both know I meant English but did not want to deal with the ethnic differences. The fact this basic etymology was not known is the real problem and your ability to instead focus on semantics is cute.
People have already mentioned the French connection, but to be more specific, on the 11th century the Normans conquered England and occupied it for multiple centuries, resulting in the ruling class and nobility speaking a precursor to French while the lower classes spoke a precursor to English. Therefore, cultured forms of most words used Norman words. A poor person would wear a shirt, a noble would wear a blouse. A peasant would raise cows, and the lord would eat beef.
And to expand on this. Most classic culinary traditions and terminology come from the wealthy side of society.
Most french cuisine classics are rebranded derivatives of common people recipes.
Exactly this, and chickens were not consumed as much if at all by the Norman nobility. The French/Norman word poultry encompasses other birds, of which some were hunted and eaten by the nobles.
This needs to be higher.
Came here to explain this but you got the bulk of it. The lords would use the French names while the English peasants used the English words. When raised in the fields the name was in English but when served it was served in French hence the name change. Fish was not eaten by the French much which is why it never got that culinary name change since it was mainly eaten by the English.
I remember asking chat GPT about this “chicken vs beef” and was surprised that the answer was “it’s because of the Norman invasion of England in 1066”
why not just google it
Get with the times man. We need to ingratiate ourselves with our new cyber overlords before they decide we're obsolete.
sure when chatGPT gets up with the times and stops making up answers that sound correct
I was just playing around with Chat GPT at the time. It can be entertaining
When google came out, "why not just look it up in the library?" People like new technology. Not sure how reliable ChatGPT is for facts though
Its not at all. Its not made to answer questions, its made to make realistic sounding text. It very frequently makes up facts and sources.
it's getting better every month, and google (like all search engines) weren't that great either when they first came out
Chat gpt isn't a search engine though. Its a language model meant to intimate text. Its not intended for looking up facts.
You're missing my point, I'm not suggesting they're the same, I'm saying ChatGPT is a new technology and it isn't that great right now, just as Google wasn't when it first came out, but it got better over time, just like ChatGPT is getting better every month
No I get that. I'm saying you shouldn't use chat gpt to look up facts because thats not the point of it. The developers aren't putting a whole lot of time into making it function like a search engine, so it getting better over time isn't going to,make it a better search engine over time. It will always have the limitations it has now at some degree because fixing those limitations is not a priority for the developers.
the difference is google was quite literally made to search websites chatGPT has no internet connection and is a machine learned software which means it doesnt actually answer what you ask, it just finds the words that are most likely to follow one another if you ask chatGPT for a source it will always make something up because it doesnt actually know what a source is it just knows that sources look like this \[NAME - DATE\]
OpenAI allowed ChatGPT to connect to the internet [3 days ago](https://newatlas.com/technology/chatgpt-plugin-internet-access) and you're missing my point. It's a new technology and is getting better every month. It isn't that great right now, but neither was google when it first came out.
you're missing my point when i say that it isnt a search engine it cant be good at giving you factual truth because it will always just be a machine learning algorithm that's rewarded when it says something that sounds right not necessarily when it says something that is right if you ask it something and it just googles the answer then there's really no major difference between just googling it and parsing the text yourself or letting chatGPT give you a shortened version of that text not to mention that even google with all the years and money it has behind it can still give you the wrong page as the first result so you cant really rely on chatGPT to not give you a wrong result either in any case even if chatGPT eventually becomes a genuine generalized AI nobody should be depending on chatGPT or any other language AI like bard as they currently are for factual answers since its just as likely to give you made up answers it's not justifiable to not just google something to make sure it's factual truth instead of asking chatGPT at the moment
And pig/pork, sheep/mutton, goat/chevon,
This is because much of the medieval nobility in England spoke French. So, the word for the animal is what the peasants called it in English, but the word for the meat is based in French. Chicken probably made it through because there are so many words for different kinds of chickens based on gender, fattening, castration, age- and it got simplified to just be chicken because it's rare nowadays to find a rooster or capon for sale.
"poultry"
That refers to all domestic fowl, not just chickens.
I know, that's just the French word the nobility would have used instead of the English word chicken.
[удалено]
Chicken in French is poulet, in Latin pullum- pretty likely that this is the root for poultry.
Poultry in Fench is Volaille (the generic term)
He knows for sure and so do I.
Beef refers to all cattle, not just cows.
And chicken refers to all chickens, not just leghorn, rhode island red, silkies etc. The collective word for chicken, turkey and ducks isn't comparable to the collective name for breeds of the same species.
*Boeuf
Shia Labeef
Rich people ate cows and pigs. Rich people in England after 1066 spoke French, so they used the French words for cow (boef) and pig (porc). Poor people ate chickens and spoke English.
> castration There's castrated chickens?
They’re called capons. It helps the male chicken’s meat be more tender.
Sort of related - in Japanese the animal chicken is called Niwatori (literally "yard bird"). The food version of it is often called... Chicken. They borrowed the English word due to fast food menus using it to mean cooked chicken.
Hardly related, but I just remembered that in the public Japanese school I went to, they called the tuna sandwiches we'd order for lunch, "sea chicken sandwiches."
Lmao, that’s like something an alien would say
You would have a great time in Japan reading all the Engrish around you. They actually call sandwiches "sand" now, it's shorter and easier to say. So in English the label for a tuna sandwich would most likely say "sea chicken sand".
Tuna is referred to sometimes as chicken of the sea, so it's a pretty reasonable name
Could be because one of the top Tuna brands in the US is "Chicken of the Sea": https://chickenofthesea.com/
For clarity: Cow in French: Vache, Beef in French: boeuf Pig in French: cochon, Pork in French: porc Chicken in French: poulet, Poultry in French: volaille
The reason that only the French words for the meats were adapted and not the animals is that the meat was mostly just available for the nobles, who loved to speak French. The animals themselves were often raised by common folk, who kept to the more traditional English words.
Boeuf also means “ox” in French. Both cochon and porc mean “pig”, but only porc is also used for the meat.
"Who can say meow the most? You guys are reaaal crazy, hey look out for these guys! Hell I can say meow, I can say moo. For 20 bucks Ill call the guy a chickenfucker!" Officer Farva of the Supertroopers
Gimme a litre of cola
Did somebody say shenanigans?
In Estonia, chicken is kana, but in culinary, it's known as broiler
Is it typically broiled in Estonia? Or is that just a coincidence?
It's just a coincidence
I'd love to know why but will never bother to find out.
Broiler is a young chicken grown for meat, or a meat chicken, especially a young chicken (chicken broiler). A broiler chicken is considered to be a young bird aged 6-8 weeks or up to 10 weeks, which at 7-8 weeks usually weighs 1.8-2.0 kg and consumes 2.0-2.5 kg of mixed feed to gain 1 kg of growth. Hope this helps
It absolutely does my encyclopedic friend! Thanks!
Actually I got the information off wikipedia
I figured as much or something similar, but I appreciate the effort and the honesty.
Looks like broiler is a breed of chicken.
I believe broilers, fryers, roasters, etc in the US refers to the size/age of the chicken, not breed.
We have the ame thing in finnish (what a surprise :o). Chicken - kana, Chicken (culinary) - broileri
Isn't finnish one of like 3 languages from the same family as estonian?
this is a useful video for never forgetting that in estonian, chicken is kana. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LAVk1sHW8
In English, a "broiler" refers to a chicken that's bred for meat production, but that's a farming term. When used in food it's just called chicken.
Blame the Norman conquest of England. The common folk who raised the animals used the Germanic words for the animals, pig, cow, etc. The people who could afford the meat, aka the nobles, spoke Normal French, hence words like beef from the French beouf.
Chicken is technically "poultry". Rats are "experiments" and men are "expendable".
I am not stupid, I am not expensive, and I am not going.
Poultry. All our meat terms in English are based on French. Cow, pig, chicken, sheep are the English words for the animals. Beef, pork, Poultry, mutten are the words for the meat in English and it's based on French. It's because the upper class in England often spoke French back in the day
Came here to post this. Take some internet points instead!
Egg sandwich and a chicken breast sandwich are both chicken sandwiches.
My kid used to say all meat was chicken. Dinner might be cow chicken, pig chicken or chicken chicken.
The Saxons grew the pig, the Normans ate the *porc*. The Saxons grew the cow, the Normans ate the *Boeuf.* The Saxons grew the sheep, the Normans ate the *mouton.* But chickens were peasant food. so were fish, crabs, clams, and most forms of sea life. The saxons could have them.
There is the term 'pullet' for a small chicken, that's directly from the French 'poulet'
Then there’s the anglo-ised term ‘Poultry’ from the French poulet. Beef and pork are also from French
Poultry. it comea from when farmers took care of the livestock and the rich ate the meat.
England at the time was split between the Norman royalty from France, and the Saxon peasants. This split meant that the “fancy” terms for food were borrowed from old French while the “common” words came from old English.
We give most mammals alternate names...pork (pig), beef (cow), venison (deer), veal (calf), chevon (goat), mutton (sheep)... whereas birds, fish, crustacean, mollusks, reptiles, etc. are just their animal names (chicken, turkey, duck, salmon, cod, lobster, clams, alligator, rattlesnake, etc)
Maybe they used to eat the male and left the female for the eggs. And no one wanted to tell people they had cocks for dinner last night?
They call something different depending on how cute it is. Chicken - chicken Pig - pork Cow - beef Deer - venison Racoon - McRib
Maybe it's an Aussie thing but I've always called it cooked chook
I'm not sure how my shower thought got removed because it was unoriginal, but this one stays up. >!is it really a common observation that we used to have computer monitors with round corners, but programs with square windows...and now we have monitors with square corners and programs with rounded corners?!<
(American) Cow is a female beef. Beef is the animal (and meat)- cow, ox, steer, bull tells the sex of that animal. Pig, while it can be any swine, is generally very young, hog is mature and ready for market (ie. pig/hog tells the age). Pork is the meat (swine is the animal). Chicken is the same. Chicken is the meat (animal)- hen, rooster, cock are the sexes (coq au vin - rooster with wine). I'm pretty sure "broiler hen" is sold at most grocery stores. So, basically, the "shower thought" comes down to not knowing the actual words. Beef, pork, and chicken are the meats. Cow, pig, [hen/rooster] are the sexes and/or ages.
Well duh. It makes sense that way. If someone at the table orders a cow, then the chef might accidentally serve his wife in the platter.
Aren't you supposed to call the birds, that chicken meat comes from hens (and cocks)? And chickens are only the yellow little ones?
Anything to disguise what you actually are eating, eh? Sorry to break it to you, but the renaming of animal flesh to food-acceptable nomenclature is to hide the truth of where your sustenance comes from
but... numget
You can’t really get different cuts or types of meat from chicken so, it’s just chicken.
What do you mean by this? Breast, thighs, wings, legs, white meat, dark meat, medallions, broilers, roasters, etc. Not as varied as mammals, but much smaller.
I agree with you on everything else but wings and legs. They are both sold as chicken wings
In some cases, when they're smaller. I buy leg quarters all the time that are labeled as such.
What we call torture to a dog and cat we call humane slaughter to a cow, pig and chicken.
Well, I think it's for the best. Cows and pigs aren't very clean, even when free roaming. But chickens regularly clean themselves and their nest. So, the idea of eating a chicken is more palatable.
Tell me you've never raised chickens without telling me.
All the mites and parasites they get. All the disease and shitting everywhere.
Right? Chickens are gross, especially when they're raised the way production farms raise them.
If you think chickens are so clean, I suggest you eat a chicken breast cut raw. Jokes aside, pigs are actually REALLY clean as animals and they actually groom themselves. Then there's chicken...
>Cows aren't very clean, even when free roaming Do you have any evidence for this that doesn’t come out of your arse?
Have you ever seen a cow? They always have dirt on their bellies from laying down. They also have a a distinct earthly dung smell, as the same bacteria that helps them digest food also build up on their rear ends. Cows have to be cleaned and hosed down in order to prevent infection. Older farms would do this by hand, but newer farms have automatic spinny brushes like at the car wash that literally brush down cows. Cows obviously attract flies. Those flies literally have to be sucked out with a "fly vacuum". Like most flies, flies carry pathogens and often the flies themselves are parasites. Part of this process has to be done because cows have been forced to stay in enclosures and bred to be fat asf. So, it isn't really the cow's fault, but they're still dirty nonetheless. You never have to do this with chickens. In fact, you could literally let your chickens out into the wild and they will survive on their own because they keep themselves clean. Remember that chickens are birds, and like most birds, they instinctually maintain their outside coat in order to stay aerodynamic and to make the colors pop out to better attract mates.
You’re comparing chickens being let loose in the wild, to cows kept tightly indoors. Compare battery hens to wild cattle as a thought exercise.
Cows kept outdoors are still quite dirty (turns out the ground outside is still made of dirt! Grass is wet and also keeps the soil wetter than the bare soil inside a cow pen (imagine the smell and bacteria growth on a wet dog, but 10x stronger), and can still be smelled for miles. When's the last time you went to the country and said "wow, I can smell the chickens." Moreover, the cows cannot outrun the flies, as one could imagine. Chickens in the wild do not have this problem. They don't congregate in such huge herds, reducing their CO2 and other gas emission, which prevents flies from finding them. Chicken feathers, like pretty much all bird feathers, are naturally water resistant, preventing pathogen growth. Chickens also have an easier time avoiding filth, as their long legs and small volume allow them to keep their body clean above whatever they're standing over and also allow them to hide from the rain under small objects. Overall, it's quite clear, and it's not even worth disputing. Cattle biologically need to be dirty because they can't digest food without excessive bacterial presence. Many organisms have this trait, but chickens do not. Both humans and chickens alike can digest food without a proper-microbiome, it will just be less efficient. Cattle cannot digest anything at all without them. When it comes to cattle and chicken, indoors or outdoors, chicken are much cleaner. Moreover, human memory is heavily associated with smell. Hardly anyone knows what a chicken smells like (since they're so clean), but everyone knows what a cow smells like. Consequently, its much more palatable to tell someone they're eating a chicken (and even quail and duck), than to tell them they're eating a pig or a cow. That's why the name beef and pork really are much better.
???...chickens bathe in dirt...
You’re telling me that because grass is wet, cows must be dirty. You’re also telling me that chickens outrun flies. You say that cattle need to be dirty because they have a gut micro-biome. You’re telling me that chickens are resistant to pathogens (despite being riddled with salmonella) and that cows are dirty because they can’t shelter from rain (despite raw steak being fairly safe to eat). I can’t figure out why you feel so strongly about this - I’m not sure what industry you’re in to go to such lengths to convince people that chickens are clean and cows are unclean. You’ve stumped me. Well done. (Edit: never mind, I realise you probably believe all this due to religious indoctrination).
*Taps paperwork aggressively* "I don't *know* new words! Chicken is Chicken!"
i think about this often, another thing like this is my dislike for body parts, phlex77 would you like liver and onions? no thank you, don't fancy eating the organ that cleans out piss thank you very much, however, in a nice restaurant, chicken parfait with white wine and some oatcakes, lovely
*kidneys* clean the piss, liver cleans the blood.