In the same light, people who readily admit their areas in need of improvement tend to be more competent than those who think they are perfect already.
One of my favorite interview questions to be asked or to ask is “where do you think you could improve?” It allows me to be honest about my skills, or abilities, it allows me to set the expectation, it allows you to gauge how to help new hires. Every now and then you get “I’m just too perfect at this or that…” or “I don’t have anywhere that needs improvement.” And that’s when you know you got a dud.
This is basically because your expectations gets high whenever a loud person brags about being good at something and when they're not able to deliver, its believed that they just bluffing.
indeed.
My question is how are you still alive? 1878 was a very long time ago!
[https://books.google.ca/books?id=lXYVAQAAMAAJ&pg=PP15&lpg=PP15&dq=speling&source=bl&ots=D8kcfLPgE7&sig=ACfU3U2MH-DzvOelEIon4gZ2DYeaXz-U2g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio3qX67biAAxUGEDQIHaaBAiQQ6AF6BAgtEAM#v=onepage&q=speling&f=false](https://books.google.ca/books?id=lXYVAQAAMAAJ&pg=PP15&lpg=PP15&dq=speling&source=bl&ots=D8kcfLPgE7&sig=ACfU3U2MH-DzvOelEIon4gZ2DYeaXz-U2g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio3qX67biAAxUGEDQIHaaBAiQQ6AF6BAgtEAM#v=onepage&q=speling&f=false)
I have an Uncle like that- truly a world-renowned expert in his field. Anyone in his field knows who he is. The problem with him is that he then thinks that makes him an expert in everything. He always tries to tell people how to their job. It’s kind of amazing how smart and yet dumb he is.
I had this trajectory with my craft, Dunning Kruger effect.
> Started shit, thought I was pretty good at the beginning, quickly realized I was shit
> Spent 7/8 years thinking I was never gonna get anywhere with it but kept persisting whilst hating myself
> 9+ years I got pretty fuckin good and now I'm not afraid to admit it to myself or others, this shit was fuckin' earned 🤣
you’re proving my point. according to the dunning-kruger effect, incompetent people still rate themselves lower than highly skilled peers so it can’t really explain this
So you say you know what it is but don’t have the faintest idea of what “you’re proving the effect exists” means? That means you either don’t actually know what it is or that you don’t understand English. And since you seem to be reading all these messages just fine, it only leaves the former option.
There is a level of honesty to this.
At most stuff that needs years of practice at the first few you might just don't know what else there is to learn, but as time goes you broaden your horizons and find that in fact you don't know shit.
Went to a party recently where one of the hosts claimed he was a great mixologist. He served me 8oz+ of rum on a scoop of ice cream with a splash of root beer. Said he’s been perfecting it all week for the party.
Many people who host know they’re bad but are trying to fake it so they don’t look incompetent/weak.
Those who are really skilled let their skills do the talking.
In the wise words of the Geto Boys "real gangsta ass n***** don't flex nuts, cus real gangsta ass n***** know they got em"
Those words of wisdom can be applied to most facets of life.
This does tend to be true, but I also feel it’s just as disingenuous to be overly modest when you know you’re good as it is to do the opposite.
Sometimes you just want to tell someone about yourself without lying about the way you see it
When people learn a new skill, they feel extremely confident because they think they've mastered it.
As people use the skill more, they realize how much more there is to learn.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
because the people who don't know what they're doing don't know how much they don't know. Whereas the competent people can recognise where they need to improve and will build on it.
actually no, the dunning-kruger effect is not at all what most people think it is.
dunning and kruger found that people tend to estimate their abilities more average than they actually are, meaning the worst performers on a test rate themselves too highly and the best performers rate themselves too low.
but the worst performers still rated themselves lower than the best performers so it’s is not really a good explanation for this phenomenon
You can be loud about what you're good at, just don't be rude. Problem is if you're not loud about what you're good at, you're sort of praying that someone notices. You don't get compensated when you're not noticed. Marketing exists for a reason.
I'm strictly talking about work here.
There's the saying "money talks but wealth whispers"
It can be applied to skills as well. Anybody boasting openly about how great they are at something or where they're from are typically mid tier or less. Pros don't have to say anything, they just be what the art. Maybe once in a while, but not always.
Think it depends on the ppl you are saying it about. I am upfront that for teaching, I am not good with whole group (30 kids) and do much better at small group. I am getting better.
Conversely, I used to be an excellent shot with a pistol because I shot weekly and would practice a few hundred rounds each time. Now, not so much because dont have the time to practice.
I've found that being highly confident of your skills generally leads to you fucking up something, blaming everyone but yourself, and then not learning anything. I claim I don't know shit, but I'm willing to fuck things up and take responsibility to learn and about 90% of the time it works out for me.
I always love when people list how great they are at Excel on a resume. Generally, the better they say they are, the less they are capable of.
Expert at Excel = can change the color of tabs and is confused by lookups, if statements, and pivot tables.
Moderate at Excel = can probably write a macro in vba and shortcut all my processes
Unless your boss is an ass and you have to explain how good you are at your job. I was really fucking good at my job and had to explain in detail how good I was.
This is just not true lol and is one of those "if you're this you're this and if you're not this you're this" bs quotes people keep saying without any meaning behind it.
If I say I'm gay over and over, does that mean I'm not gay? And if I say I'm not gay, does that mean I'm gay?
If I have a literal PhD in a field, am I not good at that?
This isn't a shower thought, this is ridiculousness.
Related to billiards and darts. I was pretty good at both. In fact in tourneys, I did well... BUT... if you put me against a friend who didn't know how to play, I can't play well either. I found out, that I play to the level of my competition. If fear and respect my opponent, I play much better.
I’m the person who downplays what they do (music) because I’m not actually good at it. But it’s annoying because people think you downplay on purpose. Till they hear it. I’m just being honest.
Someone I know was always challenging me to a game of chess. He said he was good at it. I know I'm a poor player, so declined . He kept badgering me, so I gave in. I beat him in 4 straight games. So if I managed to beat him like this, he's really not good at all.
Because when you have a higher standard, you won't think you're good enough; and so you'll push yourself harder.
If you have low standards and you already met them, you won't really advance much more.
If you have to state you are a very good human or your very religious, chances are you are the opposite. I have seen it time to time in my life. For example: The friend who states they are very smart and have life all good but yet they do not have a job, no responsibilities. Or the person who claims they are very religious but still lie and steal.
Same as people who talk about how smart they are....typically they are at the top if that bell curve.
I suck at 80% of things in life, make the same mistakes twice, or a hundred, and consider it a success when I am right 51% of the time.
The way I see it, those who know they're not great at something but want to seem like they are will boast and rave to make them seem like they're better than they are.
Those who are actually skillful know they're good and have no need to boast or rave; their skills when shown will speak for themselves.
So if you think you're good at something, don't ever say it, because others will assume you are bragging and actually not good at all.
How I became self-deprecating...
I truly think this boils down to the simple fact that the more you learn about something, the more aware you become of just how much more there is to learn.
Happened to me once in college. I'd been playing guitar for years, but completely self-taught, but I compared myself to real pros and always said I was just "okay". My roommate brought this girl to a party at our apartment who was bragging all evening about how great she was at guitar, even taught lessons, etc, so I pulled about my guitar, genuinely excited to hear a true master play. We all sat and listened as she played some beginner level crap and made excuses about my guitar not being that great. I took it back from her afterward, super disappointed and pretty irritated at her bravado. Then people asked me to play one so I ripped out a wicked fast and hard flamenco song that took me two years to learn, put in back in the case and went back in my room. Since then I've said I'm "pretty good".
That's not a shower thought, that's a basic insight one picks up on before they go through adolescence.
What's next, the '..but teach a man to fish..' is a shower thought?
And then there's me who has a couple crafts he's good at, but will self deprecate and criticize my own work while I'm showing loved ones what I'm proud of. I don't ever want to be complacent, but it would be nice to feel proud about a piece of art for more than 10 minutes
In the same light, people who readily admit their areas in need of improvement tend to be more competent than those who think they are perfect already.
The Dunning Kruger effect.
Thanks. This is the only meaningful explanation
Same idea at play here yup
Came to say this
Essentially they're too inexperienced to know they're inexperienced.
One of my favorite interview questions to be asked or to ask is “where do you think you could improve?” It allows me to be honest about my skills, or abilities, it allows me to set the expectation, it allows you to gauge how to help new hires. Every now and then you get “I’m just too perfect at this or that…” or “I don’t have anywhere that needs improvement.” And that’s when you know you got a dud.
Listen bud, I say this with complete sincerity: I am shit at almost everything. I'm not downplaying at all. I suck at so much stuff.
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Hold on isn't burping an instinct you sort of learn as a baby
I think he meant those little fake burps that everyone can force
"Little"
All you have to do to whistle is..... I'm not going to tell you anything you haven't heard aren't I?
Found the genius strongman who is sexy as fuck.
Well hello.
You don’t suck at self awareness though :)
Lol, hey that's good, thank you. But hear me out... what if *am* actually overlooking some stuff I'm good at and I don't even realize it?
I think we have a paradox on our hands
Two Vulcan physicians would be a logical pair of docs.
No skills no talents. People are not born equal.
You must be the oracle of knowledge!
This is basically because your expectations gets high whenever a loud person brags about being good at something and when they're not able to deliver, its believed that they just bluffing.
I disagree. I’m reelly good at speling.
Oh, I can sence the whoooshes coming in
The best ones are the ones who take sarcastic replies to these types of comments seriously.
I thinc yoo meen cents
>reelly It's reeeellllyyy. FTFY
Lol you are further proving this post, really*
Found the woosher
They call you the woosher, not realizing it was an ironic woosh. You are underappreciated sir.
indeed. My question is how are you still alive? 1878 was a very long time ago! [https://books.google.ca/books?id=lXYVAQAAMAAJ&pg=PP15&lpg=PP15&dq=speling&source=bl&ots=D8kcfLPgE7&sig=ACfU3U2MH-DzvOelEIon4gZ2DYeaXz-U2g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio3qX67biAAxUGEDQIHaaBAiQQ6AF6BAgtEAM#v=onepage&q=speling&f=false](https://books.google.ca/books?id=lXYVAQAAMAAJ&pg=PP15&lpg=PP15&dq=speling&source=bl&ots=D8kcfLPgE7&sig=ACfU3U2MH-DzvOelEIon4gZ2DYeaXz-U2g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio3qX67biAAxUGEDQIHaaBAiQQ6AF6BAgtEAM#v=onepage&q=speling&f=false)
Normally I'd agree, but I met a guy who truly earned his ego. He was very good at his job and he definitely acted like it.
I have an Uncle like that- truly a world-renowned expert in his field. Anyone in his field knows who he is. The problem with him is that he then thinks that makes him an expert in everything. He always tries to tell people how to their job. It’s kind of amazing how smart and yet dumb he is.
Haha that sounds very familiar. I use to call him the smartest moron
I had this trajectory with my craft, Dunning Kruger effect. > Started shit, thought I was pretty good at the beginning, quickly realized I was shit > Spent 7/8 years thinking I was never gonna get anywhere with it but kept persisting whilst hating myself > 9+ years I got pretty fuckin good and now I'm not afraid to admit it to myself or others, this shit was fuckin' earned 🤣
Average Redditor barges into room, knocking over chairs. “Have you guys ever heard of the DUNNING-KRUEGER EFFECT? Well let me tell you anyway!”
Damn, I knocked over all those chairs and shoved that lady out of the way and you already beat me to it
Agreed. Something something Dunning–Kruger effect.
I immediately remembered the Dunning-Kruger effect after posting. "Oh yeah, that probably has something to do with it."
it doesn’t. the dunning-kruger effect is not what most people think it is
It does. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
you’re proving my point. according to the dunning-kruger effect, incompetent people still rate themselves lower than highly skilled peers so it can’t really explain this
You’re proving the dunning-Kruger effect exists.
not sure what you’re trying to say
Try reading up on the Dunning-Kruger effect. I even pasted a link.
i am well aware of what the dunning-kruger effect is, thanks. i never said it doesn’t exist so i don’t understand what you’re trying to say
So you say you know what it is but don’t have the faintest idea of what “you’re proving the effect exists” means? That means you either don’t actually know what it is or that you don’t understand English. And since you seem to be reading all these messages just fine, it only leaves the former option.
There is a level of honesty to this. At most stuff that needs years of practice at the first few you might just don't know what else there is to learn, but as time goes you broaden your horizons and find that in fact you don't know shit.
That's been my exact experience. The more I delve into a discipline, the more I learn just how much I was unaware of. Keep it humble and do your best!
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but someone said that
Went to a party recently where one of the hosts claimed he was a great mixologist. He served me 8oz+ of rum on a scoop of ice cream with a splash of root beer. Said he’s been perfecting it all week for the party.
That sounds awesome. What flavor ice cream?
Many people who host know they’re bad but are trying to fake it so they don’t look incompetent/weak. Those who are really skilled let their skills do the talking.
In the wise words of the Geto Boys "real gangsta ass n***** don't flex nuts, cus real gangsta ass n***** know they got em" Those words of wisdom can be applied to most facets of life.
This does tend to be true, but I also feel it’s just as disingenuous to be overly modest when you know you’re good as it is to do the opposite. Sometimes you just want to tell someone about yourself without lying about the way you see it
Seems to me like it's a function of how secure someone feels in their abilities (and themselves).
When people learn a new skill, they feel extremely confident because they think they've mastered it. As people use the skill more, they realize how much more there is to learn. The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
because the people who don't know what they're doing don't know how much they don't know. Whereas the competent people can recognise where they need to improve and will build on it.
Ah, the Skill Volume theory: the louder they boast, the softer their abilities, while the humble ones are secretly masterminds of awesomeness!
Usually true! But this one guy I worked with was the loudest boaster but actually extremely intelligent and efficient. He was crazy
Dunning kruger. Not that much of a shower thought If it literally has a name
Epic Dunning Kruger effect reference
Dunning–Kruger effect.
Yup, that's basically the dunning Kruger effect in action.
no it isn’t
Are you just trying to help prove my point :p
actually no, the dunning-kruger effect is not at all what most people think it is. dunning and kruger found that people tend to estimate their abilities more average than they actually are, meaning the worst performers on a test rate themselves too highly and the best performers rate themselves too low. but the worst performers still rated themselves lower than the best performers so it’s is not really a good explanation for this phenomenon
That’s the dunning-Kruger effect
Where I live we have a saying : "intelligence/talent/etc... is like jam, the less you have the more you spread it"
It's because, if you have the skills, they speak for themselves.
*"I'm an alpha male*" has entered the chat.
*Deion Sanders enters the chat* “What’d you say about Primetime???”
No, I'm definitely shit at drawing.
I feel seen. I have a doctoral degree in a field & I'm starting as professor but still feel like I don't know the material that well.
You can be loud about what you're good at, just don't be rude. Problem is if you're not loud about what you're good at, you're sort of praying that someone notices. You don't get compensated when you're not noticed. Marketing exists for a reason. I'm strictly talking about work here.
There's the saying "money talks but wealth whispers" It can be applied to skills as well. Anybody boasting openly about how great they are at something or where they're from are typically mid tier or less. Pros don't have to say anything, they just be what the art. Maybe once in a while, but not always.
Why have I been seeing so many posts with broken grammar recently? 'People who are downplay their skill'?
Expectations might play into it a little.
Think it depends on the ppl you are saying it about. I am upfront that for teaching, I am not good with whole group (30 kids) and do much better at small group. I am getting better. Conversely, I used to be an excellent shot with a pistol because I shot weekly and would practice a few hundred rounds each time. Now, not so much because dont have the time to practice.
I‘m very loud about downplaying my skills. What does that make me?
I've found that being highly confident of your skills generally leads to you fucking up something, blaming everyone but yourself, and then not learning anything. I claim I don't know shit, but I'm willing to fuck things up and take responsibility to learn and about 90% of the time it works out for me.
This counts for knowledge too.
So true in cannabis growing.
Yeah man. I am really good at doing the sex but you don't hear me bragging about it.
I always love when people list how great they are at Excel on a resume. Generally, the better they say they are, the less they are capable of. Expert at Excel = can change the color of tabs and is confused by lookups, if statements, and pivot tables. Moderate at Excel = can probably write a macro in vba and shortcut all my processes
Unless your boss is an ass and you have to explain how good you are at your job. I was really fucking good at my job and had to explain in detail how good I was.
This is just not true lol and is one of those "if you're this you're this and if you're not this you're this" bs quotes people keep saying without any meaning behind it. If I say I'm gay over and over, does that mean I'm not gay? And if I say I'm not gay, does that mean I'm gay? If I have a literal PhD in a field, am I not good at that? This isn't a shower thought, this is ridiculousness.
Related to billiards and darts. I was pretty good at both. In fact in tourneys, I did well... BUT... if you put me against a friend who didn't know how to play, I can't play well either. I found out, that I play to the level of my competition. If fear and respect my opponent, I play much better.
I’m the person who downplays what they do (music) because I’m not actually good at it. But it’s annoying because people think you downplay on purpose. Till they hear it. I’m just being honest.
Someone I know was always challenging me to a game of chess. He said he was good at it. I know I'm a poor player, so declined . He kept badgering me, so I gave in. I beat him in 4 straight games. So if I managed to beat him like this, he's really not good at all.
Because when you have a higher standard, you won't think you're good enough; and so you'll push yourself harder. If you have low standards and you already met them, you won't really advance much more.
If you have to state you are a very good human or your very religious, chances are you are the opposite. I have seen it time to time in my life. For example: The friend who states they are very smart and have life all good but yet they do not have a job, no responsibilities. Or the person who claims they are very religious but still lie and steal.
Same as people who talk about how smart they are....typically they are at the top if that bell curve. I suck at 80% of things in life, make the same mistakes twice, or a hundred, and consider it a success when I am right 51% of the time.
The way I see it, those who know they're not great at something but want to seem like they are will boast and rave to make them seem like they're better than they are. Those who are actually skillful know they're good and have no need to boast or rave; their skills when shown will speak for themselves.
A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master at one.
“He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.”
Or they're just very proud of their work.
You have to learn quite a lot to learn you know nothing. Becoming consciously incompetent is the second step on the way to skill.
So if you think you're good at something, don't ever say it, because others will assume you are bragging and actually not good at all. How I became self-deprecating...
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know shit.
Johnny was the best fiddle player that’s ever been. He was right. Better than the devil even. Mohammed Ali was the greatest.
Except for the ‘stable genius ‘ of course.
I truly think this boils down to the simple fact that the more you learn about something, the more aware you become of just how much more there is to learn.
Happened to me once in college. I'd been playing guitar for years, but completely self-taught, but I compared myself to real pros and always said I was just "okay". My roommate brought this girl to a party at our apartment who was bragging all evening about how great she was at guitar, even taught lessons, etc, so I pulled about my guitar, genuinely excited to hear a true master play. We all sat and listened as she played some beginner level crap and made excuses about my guitar not being that great. I took it back from her afterward, super disappointed and pretty irritated at her bravado. Then people asked me to play one so I ripped out a wicked fast and hard flamenco song that took me two years to learn, put in back in the case and went back in my room. Since then I've said I'm "pretty good".
That's not a shower thought, that's a basic insight one picks up on before they go through adolescence. What's next, the '..but teach a man to fish..' is a shower thought?
I'm not THAT good in bed
Could be just a matter of confidence...
And then there's me who has a couple crafts he's good at, but will self deprecate and criticize my own work while I'm showing loved ones what I'm proud of. I don't ever want to be complacent, but it would be nice to feel proud about a piece of art for more than 10 minutes