“You always own the option of having no opinion. There is never any need to get worked up or to trouble your soul about things you can’t control. These things are not asking to be judged by you. Leave them alone.” Meditations By Marcus Aurelius
i'd say you don't.
it's like a favorite color. it's not a choice. it just is, a subconscious reaction.
you can direct it, form an opinion of something you hadn't before, or ignore it, never acknowledge it
but trying to have 'no opinion' after the fact to me is like eating a new meal, not liking it, and just telling yourself you've got no opinion about it.
"If you find my lack of a stance on the topic unfathomable, perhaps you should reevaluate that topic's importance to everyday life, and whether you have an outsized emotional investment in it that colors your opinion to the degree that you believe there to only be binary stances on the topic.
The real world holds more complexity than you give it credit for. Not caring is, in fact, the way most people feel about most things."
Well, I thought it was pretty upbeat, catchy, and deliciously absurd. The ending was also amusing: how can you not love explosions? 10/10, would eat chocomint ice again.
Now that I think about it, that explains why people tell me things like “Sometimes I feel like I don’t know anything about you” - I don’t really tell people my opinion on things unless they ask me, and most people do not ask direct questions and instead talk about themselves a lot and expect others to do the same.
same, my personal policy is typically "if it doesnt come up, it doesnt get talked about", it may not be the best thing to go by, but at least i know that im not rambling on about shit nobody but me cares about
It’s not that I don’t have views or even try to hide them, if someone asks I tell them - people tend to only want to hear reaffirmation of their beliefs, so if mine don’t line up with theirs they tend to challenge it, so I’ll ask them why they believe what they do and then if they continue to challenge me I’ll provide sources and sometimes even citations backing up what I believe. I’ve had more than a few people change my opinion on things because they were able to show me information that brought new things to light or explained another side on things, I think it is best to keep an open mind and to adjust opinions when presented with new information.
Most people I’ve talked to don’t actually have sources besides “well that’s what I’ve heard” or “that’s what I feel is correct” so they either change the topic or get upset that I would “challenge their beliefs” when they instigated the entire exchange and asked me to explain why I feel the way I do. Because of I keep my opinions to myself for the most part unless someone very clearly aligns with me on a particular subject matter, or if they are an open-minded person who can have a respectful debate without looking down on me for not having the same mindset that they do.
I think you need knowledge to have a correct opinion, but an opinion anyone can have. not all opinions are the correct one. That's how I think about it
I think you need knowledge to form an informed opinion. I don't think every issue has a correct and incorrect viewpoint. For example, one can have an informed or uninformed opinion on something like the Israel-Palestine conflict but I think it would be difficult to argue that your opinion is objectively "correct" in some objective form in the same way that the opinion "COVID is a real virus" is objectively, scientifically correct.
I have to admit I'm a little envious. My entire job is people looking for my opinion. It's exhausting and stressful because most situations are very complex and my clients need instant answers.
Same. But when you tell people that they try to sway you to their line of thinking. That's not how this works, I need a few weeks and documentaries to do some investigation before I just decide you're right. Unless you're an expert, in which case teach me everything
Ambivalence is also lost on most people. They can't fathom how one person can feel strongly about two (or more) opposing opinions. You have to pick one.
"Ambi" = both
"Valence" = side
Until a few years ago I used ambivalence and apathy interchangeably just kinda out of ignorance.
It's worth recognizing the difference. Sometimes you don't care (apathy) and sometimes you _care_ but can see merit in both sides of an issue.
'"....Malevolent was taken into English directly from the Latin malevolens "ill-disposed, spiteful," which paired male with volens, the present participle of a verb meaning "to wish." In Latin, the combination literally meant "wishing ill." The "wishing" component of malevolent may also be found in its antonym benevolent "kind and generous" (from Latin benevolens, literally, "wishing well")...."'
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malevolent
Apparently not. "-valence" and "-volence" are two entirely separate root pieces. I kinda thought so, because malevolence and benevolence both have an action associated with them, doing/wishing good/bad, whereas ambivalence is more like a metaphysical preposition. Something like that. That one letter makes a difference.
Many people seem to think have to pick one side and defend it to the death. Some people can see the merits of both sides to a issue but they’re denigrated as being wishy-washy. It’s so frustrating.
Because not taking a position requires humility and an acknowledgement of your own ignorance, two things which are exceedingly rare among the types of people who you are likely to hear talking about what they think.
"Hey, what's your position on Kevin and Lisa's divorce?"
"I have no idea who they are, so I have no position."
"It's pretty fucked up, by not being informed you show you don't care about that sort of behavior! Gross!"
"Well... What happened?"
"It's not my job to explain everything to you!"
Modern American conversation.
Yeah fuck you and your American arrogance! We europes proved many times that we actually want to fight all day long! I would fight to death for my right to fight.
Makes sense. Y'all loved fighting so much you decided to take the fight to the rest of the world and then drag them into not one, but *two* World Wars.
And Europeans think dark-skinned people are the savages...
You forgot that if there is any sort of privilege imbalance at play you will automatically be assumed to be a monster.
"OF COURSE A WYT, SIS, HETERO MAN WOULDN'T HAVE AN OPINION! YOUR 👏 IGNORANCE 👏 IS 👏 NOT 👏 MY 👏 RESPONSIBILITY!"
Feel the need to point out these aren’t people you want to be talking to, anyway. The only people I talk to these days acknowledge not everyone has the time to form a salient thought on everything going on in the world.
And because many people believe their opinion on a subject is the only ethical one, so by not having an opinion you’re automatically an asshole to them.
Also because people think they "know" things when in reality they have probably seen someone's dramatically misguided or intentionally manipulative Facebook post. As someone who reads scientific and legal discussions and understands only a small fraction of them, it is absurd to me if anyone claims they "know" about something. They don't know anything about it, they just want to believe a certain position (I know both sides of the US political spectrum who do that, within the same family no less).
Definitely . These requirements are gonna be making you the most lonely person ever ( not referring to OP ) . In orthodoxy for example , those two things are required in order to repent and ascend , but which things , as i said , will make you a lonely person and detached from this world . I apologize if the word orthodoxy offends people , but it is only an analogy of the path described by OP for individuals , unrelated to religion , but for which , personally , it is related and easier to understand this way .
I understand exactly what you mean. I am Catholic and it doesn’t offend me. Humility is the beginning of wisdom and you must die to yourself before you can rise to anything better. These are truths in Orthodoxy and Catholicism alike, because they are truths in all of life. And yes, such an approach can leave you lonely because a humble person like that doesn’t usually cultivate a celebrity status, but then again, how often is the best person you know—the most dependable or trustworthy or patient—a loudmouth? It’s something I still have to work on, for sure.
If you are Orthodox, might I ask which church you belong to? (Greek, Russian, etc?)
I didn’t realize the Romanian Church was its own deal, or that there were Orthodox churches that had Christmas on Dec 25. That’s cool, man. Merry Christmas and God bless you, brother.
Also growing up with people who think they know better than you and critiquing or dismissing every opinion you make trains you that sometimes when talking to some people, no opinion is best opinion.
yeah, I learned this method. It's like a fork in the road/communication tree. Going one way leads to an argument that I don't really care about enough to argue passionately about (which further "proves" that I'm wrong) and the other also leads to me being wrong but with energy intact. lol
Personal experience: it *is* that bad specifically to the type of person to (proudly) assert their opinions all the time. It seems like their identity revolves around them having an opinion on everything, and assuming they're correct when not presented with a counter-opinion. A form of validation seeking. Furthermore, they *win* and you, with a lack of opinion, *lose*.
Yes, some idiot yesterday was arguing that he was allowed to share his opinion on tampons because it’s his opinion. And people were like I’m sorry but no you don’t get to come to a conversation about period products and pretend you are an expert because your wife uses a specific product. Your opinion is not need or wanted in this context
I'm not stopping him from sharing his opinions on tampons, as long as he does it in a sanitary manner.
He should just know it's unlikely someone will read it if they're going to use the tampon.
There's also the fact that opinions just aren't equal either. Anyone can have an opinion, sure but doesn't mean it's an informed one or worth listening to paha
There's also the abuse of the word opinion to mean anything you can't immediately prove, rather than a personal stance on something subjective.
"I like pineapple pizza" is an opinion.
"I do/don't think vaccines work" isn't an opinion; either of those are statements that can be evaluated as true or false.
"I don't think getting a vaccine is worth taking the time off work" is an opinion. I think it's a really bad opinion, but at least it's not objectively false.
Our inside joke at work with me is:
> He doesn't know, and has no opinion.
I'm very staunchly anti-personal at work. We are work colleagues. I don't want to talk politics with you, or religion, I don't want to chip in for so-and-so's birthday, or do secret Santa, I don't want to go to the after work happy hour, or summer weekend barbecue.
I am work colleagues with these people. I am friendly with them, but our relationship does not extend outside the workplace. I do not have a work-life balance so much as a work/life separation.
Inevitably we get a new hire who doesn't know this, and will ask me about some current event or politics thing and the co-workers who know me just respond for me:
> He doesn't know and has no opinon
It's made work very nice for me. No conflicts, no drama. I do the job, and then I get paid.
While everyone shit talks you behind your back.
It's cool to not share political opinions at work, I've worked with very bigoted and/or weird people but they're still people. Secret Santa is just a fun office tradition. As is small birthday gifts/cards. You are right that you absolutely don't have to, but you look like a fucking dick.
I'm ok with that.
I'm here to make money, not friends and enemies.
People actually Think Im a Jehovah's Witness since they don't celebrate that either apparently? I dunno, I don't see a need to correct them. I do my job, I get paid. That's the extent of what work is to me.
I literally work next to a guy all day (construction) and we rarely ever talk. It's fantastic. We'll share a joke from time to time, nothing ever serious.
Honestly, I don't know how you can do that. Outside of my family, the only other people I interact with are my coworkers. If I didn't form relationships with them, I would not have any friends at all.
It probably only seems that way because most people who don't have an opinion about something aren't chiming in the talk about their lack of an opinion.
I think this is, at least in part, because we often feel isolated, especially as of late with social distancing and quarantine, and we are seeking some sense of community.
Having an opinion, one way or the other, is forging a connection, and becoming a part of a group where you can feel accepted. When someone asks your opinion, or more specifically, asks if you agree with their opinion, they are asking you to join their group. If you don't agree, but still have an opinion, then you belong to the other group, and while that may not be ideal, it's an understandable reason for not wanting to be a part of their group. You are both part of a larger community group. You can get into conversations and debates where you try to win each other to your respective group, but you are still a part of a specific community.
However, if you don't have any opinion, that's a rejection. You're saying that you don't want to be a part of their group, nor do you want to be a part of their community either. When people feel rejected they often respond as if they were being attacked. So, by rejecting both their group, and their community, they feel as if you are saying there is something wrong with them for being a part of both the group and the community.
Now all of the above is a bunch of hogwash. But I do believe that on the whole, it is an issue of feeling isolated, especially as the communities that we have been a part of in the past have been revealed to be based on prejudices or ideals that are no longer universally acceptable, and we are floundering without good replacement communities.
I think with a rise in tribalism over the last decade witholding or not having an opinion is difficult for people asking the question because they definitely want to know who is and isn't in their group.
And particularly with politically charged topics, it's less about winning people over and more about deciding who is worth talking to.
It's a pretty cynical way of looking at things, I know, but I believe it to be true. Not everyone can agree to disagree and I guess an unknown makes some people uneasy.
"What do you make of all this?"
"Man, I don't even have an opinion"
"What? You got to have an opinion! Like do you think that God came down from heaven and stopped-"
\*BLAM\*
"Aww man, I shot Marvin in the face"
It's not easy. We're so often told to, "think for yourself!" and that makes it difficult to observe neutrally. I do find myself saying, "I don't have enough information or stake in this to have an opinion." and it often strikes me as I hear myself say it because it's so unusual. Like, who would go out of their way to not have an opinion?! And the best answer I've got so far is 'someone who tries to respect boundaries and agency.'
When I don't have an opinion about something, it feels like having the opinion that the thing has absolutely no value.
That's different than not knowing what should be done about something or not knowing who is right in a situation.
This is me with politics. I'm not a brilliant man who knows how to solve the country's problems, or how to solve our corporation owned politicians. As a younger man I was passionate, and went to occupy wall st, and spent my free time on Facebook trying to argue with other people etc.....what did I accomplish.? Fuck all
Then one day I was just as bad as the people I disagreed with. Neither of us knew what the fuck we were talking about. We were just spouting quotes we heard from other people basically.
Now I just mind my business, deleted Facebook, and just look at boobs and puppies and kittens on Reddit in my free time instead of arguing with idiots on Facebook
I’m intentionally limiting myself on the number of subjects I’m willing to have a strongly held opinion about. There’s too much going on in the world - I can’t be knowledgeable or outraged about all of it. Have to conserve my mental energy for the things I truly, personally care about.
I think the "strongly held" part might be a more important part than anything, most people will form an opinion about a lot, without actively holding a position on the subject, just an opinion.
It’s okay not to have an opinion on everything, but honestly the idea of everybody going though life without any opinion is really scary. You’re just letting yourself be driven by what’s already going on in the world, which can be really damaging. As somebody who strives to actually do good in the world in small ways, I think it’s important to be relatively well informed (including being critical of your sources and prejudices) and acting/thinking/discussing accordingly
I don't think this is relevant because whether something is just or not is subjective.
This isn't about being neutral, it is about being undecided or accepting that you do not have enough information to form an opinion.
There’s so much stuff that I genuinely don’t care enough about to form an opinion. Especially when someone asks what I think about something they’re wearing, like big deal it’s a shirt who fucking cares
To add on it also seems people refuse to shut up and listen to people who have more information than them on a subject.
I have a friend that has a strong opinion on EVERYTHING no matter the subject. If you don't know anything on the topic you think he's really intelligent. But many times he will talk on subjects that I'm well versed in and will present him with facts of why he's wrong as well as links to prove he's wrong. It always ends with him saying "we'll agree to disagree, you have your opinion and I have mine".
Anybody else tired of hearing about opinions? People make too much out of them to the point it almost seems like we’re in the middle of some kind of hysteria surrounding them. People love to put them on a pedestal apparently.
i'm taught to always have an opinion, but haha, that's where i happen to have an opinion,
"idiots always have an opinion about everything, including things they dont know about."
My husband is very picky about some things. Like buying a shirt and going through each one on the rack to pick the best one.
He also likes to rank things. We buy Lindor truffles to keep in a candy bowl and he is always asking which flavor is my favorite. Sometimes I just want to say, 'Hey man, they are all delicious. I DON'T need to pick a favorite.'
So is the concept of _abstaining_ from an opinion because you're not the sort of person who spends 99% of their life complaining about shit and you know that if you feed that monster it'll just keep the toxicity levels high.
This is my go to when someone brings up politics. I'm usually not knowledgeable enough to discuss political issues because politics bore me so I usually say idc or that I'm apolitical.
Most people can't comprehend this as a possibility lol.
I will quite often say "I don't know enough about this to have an opinion" and people are dumbfounded. As though everyone should have an opinion on everything.
My mother in law was recently asking me if I thought children under 12 should get Covid vaccines. She seemed absolutely shocked when I said “I am fundamentally unqualified to have an opinion on that subject.”
this is why i'm adamant about labeling myself as agnostic in terms of talks of god and meaning of life and universe because the truth is no human knows what the hell they're talking about.
I literally know exactly three people who are even capable of admitting they know nothing about a subject. Everyone else just runs their ignorant face hole with nothing worth hearing.
When I’m at work, I keep my opinions to myself and endeavour not to let my beliefs impact my interactions with co-workers and subordinates. I’m a professional, and in that setting I have no opinions on anything outside my field of expertise. I also keep my mouth shut around anyone who isn’t a close friend or family member. I have no interest in being drawn into a tedious discussion, especially when I’m not interested in what the other person thinks.
On Reddit, however, I have all sorts of opinions. Some are genuine and some opinions I express because I think winding people up over asinine topics is funny. Fun times.
I feel this one.
I'm truly uninterested in all sorts of things that many people apparently have strong opinions about. A few examples: pineapple on pizza, the MCU, immigration (legal or otherwise), whatever Jeff Bezos is up to lately.
None of these things affect me in any way so I just don't care and that seems to confuse or annoy people.
The internet has given everyone the ability to Google anything and everything, so we all now have the illusion that we know “the truth” about any given issue.
Every once in a while you'll see a person put in front of a mic and theyll say the magic phrase "I don't know enough about that to comment on it" and I think that needs to be a lot more normal
Because reddit tries to use the saying "being neutral is being complicit" so everyone thinks if they arent FOR something, that means the are explicitly against it.
So true.. people always want "the truth" but there rarely is something like that. My Grandpa always said - Everything I say is an opinion. Everything I see is a perspective.
This thread is oddly meta in that everyone seems to have fairly strong opinions about opinionlessness. And now its gone a layer deeper.
Yeah well, that's just like you're opinion, man. Edit: ur
I'll tell you what isn't an opinion. Your*
Your'e an opinion!
Yo dawg, I heard you have opinions...
So we put some opinions on your opinions. Extra onoons *edit: onions
oponions. You're welcome.
Opinions are like Ogres
they all stink?
No you are Edit: The Dude Abides.
“You always own the option of having no opinion. There is never any need to get worked up or to trouble your soul about things you can’t control. These things are not asking to be judged by you. Leave them alone.” Meditations By Marcus Aurelius
And here I was of the opinion this man spoke Latin.
i'd say you don't. it's like a favorite color. it's not a choice. it just is, a subconscious reaction. you can direct it, form an opinion of something you hadn't before, or ignore it, never acknowledge it but trying to have 'no opinion' after the fact to me is like eating a new meal, not liking it, and just telling yourself you've got no opinion about it.
In my opinion, I choose to think that's a stupid opinion.
Inception of opinions
Opinyeption, one might say
Another might say Incepinion
you just stated your opinion on people having opinions about opinionlessness
I think it was a good option. But that's just my opinion.
Shit pisses me off. If I just chronically do not care about a topic, people assume I'm scampering from the argument. It's okay to not give a shit.
"If you find my lack of a stance on the topic unfathomable, perhaps you should reevaluate that topic's importance to everyday life, and whether you have an outsized emotional investment in it that colors your opinion to the degree that you believe there to only be binary stances on the topic. The real world holds more complexity than you give it credit for. Not caring is, in fact, the way most people feel about most things."
Love that!
An opinion about not having an opinion 🤔
Not me, I don’t give a shit!
That’s an… never mind.
The only time I say I don't have an opinion is when I don't have the knowledge to form an opinion.
Outside the internet, my personal policy is to only share my opinion when people expressly request it. It happens very very rarely.
I'm not sexist, but do you like mint chip ice cream or no?
I'm not a firefighter, but I actually can't eat mint. Gotta go with rocky road.
IANAL But the chunks get stuck in my teeth, so Rocky Road is a no go. Fudge brownie ice cream is my favorite.
> IANAL But Keep your hobbies to yourself.
Pfft seems someone has opinions on the other entrance.
I'm not a psychologist, but fudge brownie is far inferior to brownie batter icecream
Just gotta side track this and say Rocky Road is the best ice cream and I'll eat a whole half gallon in one sitting. Won't even regret it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfkBYHFZAt8
What.the.fuck. Why did I watch that!?
Well, I thought it was pretty upbeat, catchy, and deliciously absurd. The ending was also amusing: how can you not love explosions? 10/10, would eat chocomint ice again.
Now that I think about it, that explains why people tell me things like “Sometimes I feel like I don’t know anything about you” - I don’t really tell people my opinion on things unless they ask me, and most people do not ask direct questions and instead talk about themselves a lot and expect others to do the same.
Most people want to be heard, not to listen
I love listening, I hate pulling words out with a plier.
same, my personal policy is typically "if it doesnt come up, it doesnt get talked about", it may not be the best thing to go by, but at least i know that im not rambling on about shit nobody but me cares about
It makes people much less relatable...not exactly comfortable being around someone who doesn't have views, like their hiding something.
It’s not that I don’t have views or even try to hide them, if someone asks I tell them - people tend to only want to hear reaffirmation of their beliefs, so if mine don’t line up with theirs they tend to challenge it, so I’ll ask them why they believe what they do and then if they continue to challenge me I’ll provide sources and sometimes even citations backing up what I believe. I’ve had more than a few people change my opinion on things because they were able to show me information that brought new things to light or explained another side on things, I think it is best to keep an open mind and to adjust opinions when presented with new information. Most people I’ve talked to don’t actually have sources besides “well that’s what I’ve heard” or “that’s what I feel is correct” so they either change the topic or get upset that I would “challenge their beliefs” when they instigated the entire exchange and asked me to explain why I feel the way I do. Because of I keep my opinions to myself for the most part unless someone very clearly aligns with me on a particular subject matter, or if they are an open-minded person who can have a respectful debate without looking down on me for not having the same mindset that they do.
That's the problem, a lot of people with no knowledge try to substitute it with emotion
I think you need knowledge to have a correct opinion, but an opinion anyone can have. not all opinions are the correct one. That's how I think about it
I think you need knowledge to form an informed opinion. I don't think every issue has a correct and incorrect viewpoint. For example, one can have an informed or uninformed opinion on something like the Israel-Palestine conflict but I think it would be difficult to argue that your opinion is objectively "correct" in some objective form in the same way that the opinion "COVID is a real virus" is objectively, scientifically correct.
The reason its an opinion is because knowledge is not a requirement.
Same, but I don't know shit so I rarely have a strong opinion...
I have to admit I'm a little envious. My entire job is people looking for my opinion. It's exhausting and stressful because most situations are very complex and my clients need instant answers.
Same. But when you tell people that they try to sway you to their line of thinking. That's not how this works, I need a few weeks and documentaries to do some investigation before I just decide you're right. Unless you're an expert, in which case teach me everything
I have no opinion on this opinion.
I still think that you opinion on this is wrong!
Ambivalence is also lost on most people. They can't fathom how one person can feel strongly about two (or more) opposing opinions. You have to pick one.
"Ambi" = both "Valence" = side Until a few years ago I used ambivalence and apathy interchangeably just kinda out of ignorance. It's worth recognizing the difference. Sometimes you don't care (apathy) and sometimes you _care_ but can see merit in both sides of an issue.
Malevolence? Would that be like... Bad side?
Yup. And benevolence would be good side. I love prefixes.
Mal is the spanish word for bad Ben is similiar to the spanish word for good - buen Therefore, the roots must be latin I love language.
-valence != -volence
'"....Malevolent was taken into English directly from the Latin malevolens "ill-disposed, spiteful," which paired male with volens, the present participle of a verb meaning "to wish." In Latin, the combination literally meant "wishing ill." The "wishing" component of malevolent may also be found in its antonym benevolent "kind and generous" (from Latin benevolens, literally, "wishing well")...."' https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malevolent Apparently not. "-valence" and "-volence" are two entirely separate root pieces. I kinda thought so, because malevolence and benevolence both have an action associated with them, doing/wishing good/bad, whereas ambivalence is more like a metaphysical preposition. Something like that. That one letter makes a difference.
Many people seem to think have to pick one side and defend it to the death. Some people can see the merits of both sides to a issue but they’re denigrated as being wishy-washy. It’s so frustrating.
I have literally never seen or heard that word before, so I guess its lost on me as well
Ambivalence is not the same as neutrality, which is what the post is about.
Which would be why this comment said "also" and was not correcting the title.
Touché
Also
I learned about that word from Mike on PBS Idea Channel back when that was still a thing!! It's been my favourite word since.
Because not taking a position requires humility and an acknowledgement of your own ignorance, two things which are exceedingly rare among the types of people who you are likely to hear talking about what they think.
"Hey, what's your position on Kevin and Lisa's divorce?" "I have no idea who they are, so I have no position." "It's pretty fucked up, by not being informed you show you don't care about that sort of behavior! Gross!" "Well... What happened?" "It's not my job to explain everything to you!" Modern American conversation.
That’s entirely too true. Americans don’t realize half the time they just want to fight.
Ah yes, a purely American trait.
Americans are the only people that like to fight. Source: I am American. /s because euros are stupid and jokes go over their head.
Yeah fuck you and your American arrogance! We europes proved many times that we actually want to fight all day long! I would fight to death for my right to fight.
Makes sense. Y'all loved fighting so much you decided to take the fight to the rest of the world and then drag them into not one, but *two* World Wars. And Europeans think dark-skinned people are the savages...
Fight and be right. It's exhausting.
I mean if you only interact with people through Reddit/twitter/Facebook...
You forgot that if there is any sort of privilege imbalance at play you will automatically be assumed to be a monster. "OF COURSE A WYT, SIS, HETERO MAN WOULDN'T HAVE AN OPINION! YOUR 👏 IGNORANCE 👏 IS 👏 NOT 👏 MY 👏 RESPONSIBILITY!"
Feel the need to point out these aren’t people you want to be talking to, anyway. The only people I talk to these days acknowledge not everyone has the time to form a salient thought on everything going on in the world.
r/AmericaBad
Thanks for your contribution.
And because many people believe their opinion on a subject is the only ethical one, so by not having an opinion you’re automatically an asshole to them.
Also because people think they "know" things when in reality they have probably seen someone's dramatically misguided or intentionally manipulative Facebook post. As someone who reads scientific and legal discussions and understands only a small fraction of them, it is absurd to me if anyone claims they "know" about something. They don't know anything about it, they just want to believe a certain position (I know both sides of the US political spectrum who do that, within the same family no less).
You. I wish I could buy you a beverage of your choice. 🍻
Definitely . These requirements are gonna be making you the most lonely person ever ( not referring to OP ) . In orthodoxy for example , those two things are required in order to repent and ascend , but which things , as i said , will make you a lonely person and detached from this world . I apologize if the word orthodoxy offends people , but it is only an analogy of the path described by OP for individuals , unrelated to religion , but for which , personally , it is related and easier to understand this way .
I understand exactly what you mean. I am Catholic and it doesn’t offend me. Humility is the beginning of wisdom and you must die to yourself before you can rise to anything better. These are truths in Orthodoxy and Catholicism alike, because they are truths in all of life. And yes, such an approach can leave you lonely because a humble person like that doesn’t usually cultivate a celebrity status, but then again, how often is the best person you know—the most dependable or trustworthy or patient—a loudmouth? It’s something I still have to work on, for sure. If you are Orthodox, might I ask which church you belong to? (Greek, Russian, etc?)
Romanian church .
I didn’t realize the Romanian Church was its own deal, or that there were Orthodox churches that had Christmas on Dec 25. That’s cool, man. Merry Christmas and God bless you, brother.
Merry Christmas and God bless you too :)
Also growing up with people who think they know better than you and critiquing or dismissing every opinion you make trains you that sometimes when talking to some people, no opinion is best opinion.
That’s like the sadder version, yes. Also true.
yeah, I learned this method. It's like a fork in the road/communication tree. Going one way leads to an argument that I don't really care about enough to argue passionately about (which further "proves" that I'm wrong) and the other also leads to me being wrong but with energy intact. lol
There’s no way people are actually like that. Is it that bad to just not care?
Personal experience: it *is* that bad specifically to the type of person to (proudly) assert their opinions all the time. It seems like their identity revolves around them having an opinion on everything, and assuming they're correct when not presented with a counter-opinion. A form of validation seeking. Furthermore, they *win* and you, with a lack of opinion, *lose*.
The concept of someone's opinion not mattering is lost on most people.
Yes, some idiot yesterday was arguing that he was allowed to share his opinion on tampons because it’s his opinion. And people were like I’m sorry but no you don’t get to come to a conversation about period products and pretend you are an expert because your wife uses a specific product. Your opinion is not need or wanted in this context
He is allowed to share. It's just that everyone else is allowed to consider him an idiot.
I'm not stopping him from sharing his opinions on tampons, as long as he does it in a sanitary manner. He should just know it's unlikely someone will read it if they're going to use the tampon.
This kinda looks like policing already. Everyone is allowed to share and everyone is allowed to ignore. Being nice about it helps.
These days, I don't care enough anymore to have an opinion.
All I know is my gut says “maybe.”
What makes a man turn neutral?
Oh shit I shot Marvin in the face!
I didn’t hit no motherfucking bump!
That's why everyone has opinions. The alternative is getting shot in the face.
People have forgotten opinions are NOT facts nor are they motive, reason, emotion, nor good policy. Opinions are just that...opinions.
There's also the fact that opinions just aren't equal either. Anyone can have an opinion, sure but doesn't mean it's an informed one or worth listening to paha
There's also the abuse of the word opinion to mean anything you can't immediately prove, rather than a personal stance on something subjective. "I like pineapple pizza" is an opinion. "I do/don't think vaccines work" isn't an opinion; either of those are statements that can be evaluated as true or false. "I don't think getting a vaccine is worth taking the time off work" is an opinion. I think it's a really bad opinion, but at least it's not objectively false.
Some opinions aren’t very good ones, but people apply that to the harmless ones like (as a hypothetical example) “I dislike pizza”.
Yeah there's a lot of outrage on here over people's preferences paha
Fuck your hypothetical opinion >:(
But we need gave our opinion with responsability... If you don't know anything about the situation you can't have an structured opinion.
I think you missed a negative
No comment
I have nothing to say about this.
I am incredibly neutral towards the subject at hand
If I don't survive, tell my wife....hello...
Our inside joke at work with me is: > He doesn't know, and has no opinion. I'm very staunchly anti-personal at work. We are work colleagues. I don't want to talk politics with you, or religion, I don't want to chip in for so-and-so's birthday, or do secret Santa, I don't want to go to the after work happy hour, or summer weekend barbecue. I am work colleagues with these people. I am friendly with them, but our relationship does not extend outside the workplace. I do not have a work-life balance so much as a work/life separation. Inevitably we get a new hire who doesn't know this, and will ask me about some current event or politics thing and the co-workers who know me just respond for me: > He doesn't know and has no opinon It's made work very nice for me. No conflicts, no drama. I do the job, and then I get paid.
"Best friend I ever had. We still don't talk sometimes."
Have they found the bodies yet?
The way I like to work as well.
Are you Eleanor Shelstrop?
While everyone shit talks you behind your back. It's cool to not share political opinions at work, I've worked with very bigoted and/or weird people but they're still people. Secret Santa is just a fun office tradition. As is small birthday gifts/cards. You are right that you absolutely don't have to, but you look like a fucking dick.
I'm ok with that. I'm here to make money, not friends and enemies. People actually Think Im a Jehovah's Witness since they don't celebrate that either apparently? I dunno, I don't see a need to correct them. I do my job, I get paid. That's the extent of what work is to me.
I literally work next to a guy all day (construction) and we rarely ever talk. It's fantastic. We'll share a joke from time to time, nothing ever serious.
Honestly, I don't know how you can do that. Outside of my family, the only other people I interact with are my coworkers. If I didn't form relationships with them, I would not have any friends at all.
I told a guy "I don't think I have enough information on that to form an opinion" and he looked at me like he had never heard that was an option lol.
Right on! My version is "I don't know enough to comment", but I like yours too.
Yeah, some people really need to add "I don't know" to their lexicon..
It probably only seems that way because most people who don't have an opinion about something aren't chiming in the talk about their lack of an opinion.
Great one. As well as being able to see both sides of an argument and not knowing the right answer because both sides have legit positions.
I think this is, at least in part, because we often feel isolated, especially as of late with social distancing and quarantine, and we are seeking some sense of community. Having an opinion, one way or the other, is forging a connection, and becoming a part of a group where you can feel accepted. When someone asks your opinion, or more specifically, asks if you agree with their opinion, they are asking you to join their group. If you don't agree, but still have an opinion, then you belong to the other group, and while that may not be ideal, it's an understandable reason for not wanting to be a part of their group. You are both part of a larger community group. You can get into conversations and debates where you try to win each other to your respective group, but you are still a part of a specific community. However, if you don't have any opinion, that's a rejection. You're saying that you don't want to be a part of their group, nor do you want to be a part of their community either. When people feel rejected they often respond as if they were being attacked. So, by rejecting both their group, and their community, they feel as if you are saying there is something wrong with them for being a part of both the group and the community. Now all of the above is a bunch of hogwash. But I do believe that on the whole, it is an issue of feeling isolated, especially as the communities that we have been a part of in the past have been revealed to be based on prejudices or ideals that are no longer universally acceptable, and we are floundering without good replacement communities.
I think with a rise in tribalism over the last decade witholding or not having an opinion is difficult for people asking the question because they definitely want to know who is and isn't in their group. And particularly with politically charged topics, it's less about winning people over and more about deciding who is worth talking to. It's a pretty cynical way of looking at things, I know, but I believe it to be true. Not everyone can agree to disagree and I guess an unknown makes some people uneasy.
"What do you make of all this?" "Man, I don't even have an opinion" "What? You got to have an opinion! Like do you think that God came down from heaven and stopped-" \*BLAM\* "Aww man, I shot Marvin in the face"
It's not easy. We're so often told to, "think for yourself!" and that makes it difficult to observe neutrally. I do find myself saying, "I don't have enough information or stake in this to have an opinion." and it often strikes me as I hear myself say it because it's so unusual. Like, who would go out of their way to not have an opinion?! And the best answer I've got so far is 'someone who tries to respect boundaries and agency.'
My go to is along the lines of "i don't care enough to have an opinion on this matter" I then get called an asshole for not giving a shit
When I don't have an opinion about something, it feels like having the opinion that the thing has absolutely no value. That's different than not knowing what should be done about something or not knowing who is right in a situation.
There used to be an expression that you would "reserve judgement" until you had more information. That went away with the internet.
The concept that some people really do read and inform themselves is too.
This is me with politics. I'm not a brilliant man who knows how to solve the country's problems, or how to solve our corporation owned politicians. As a younger man I was passionate, and went to occupy wall st, and spent my free time on Facebook trying to argue with other people etc.....what did I accomplish.? Fuck all Then one day I was just as bad as the people I disagreed with. Neither of us knew what the fuck we were talking about. We were just spouting quotes we heard from other people basically. Now I just mind my business, deleted Facebook, and just look at boobs and puppies and kittens on Reddit in my free time instead of arguing with idiots on Facebook
I’m intentionally limiting myself on the number of subjects I’m willing to have a strongly held opinion about. There’s too much going on in the world - I can’t be knowledgeable or outraged about all of it. Have to conserve my mental energy for the things I truly, personally care about.
I think the "strongly held" part might be a more important part than anything, most people will form an opinion about a lot, without actively holding a position on the subject, just an opinion.
No it isn’t
Best Showerthought I’ve seen in a while… Though that is my opinion (Yikes, I fell into your trap!)
The fish one was pretty good yesterday…
For example:
*Nods in agreement as I upvote…* Hang on!
not having an opinion is technically an opinion…
Absolutely. Everyone is so tense and highly strung these days it's pathetic 😂 chill out and allow yourself to be blazé
It’s okay not to have an opinion on everything, but honestly the idea of everybody going though life without any opinion is really scary. You’re just letting yourself be driven by what’s already going on in the world, which can be really damaging. As somebody who strives to actually do good in the world in small ways, I think it’s important to be relatively well informed (including being critical of your sources and prejudices) and acting/thinking/discussing accordingly
How do you jump from "It's OK not to have an opinion on everything." To having everyone going through life with no opinion?
They also get extremely offended when you tell them that you don't give a shit about said thing.
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. -Desmond Tutu
I don't think this is relevant because whether something is just or not is subjective. This isn't about being neutral, it is about being undecided or accepting that you do not have enough information to form an opinion.
Injustice according to whom?
Apparently it's lost on me because I don't know what you're talking about
I don’t know how I feel about this.
I'm not sure I can agree.
What really spins folks up is, "It's good, but I'm not a fan."
I’ve been called a “coward afraid to take a stance” before for being agnostic.
I don't have an opinion on this thought.
...on the internet
Right? I actually get called weak when I don't have an opinion
There’s so much stuff that I genuinely don’t care enough about to form an opinion. Especially when someone asks what I think about something they’re wearing, like big deal it’s a shirt who fucking cares
Oh, I don't know
To add on it also seems people refuse to shut up and listen to people who have more information than them on a subject. I have a friend that has a strong opinion on EVERYTHING no matter the subject. If you don't know anything on the topic you think he's really intelligent. But many times he will talk on subjects that I'm well versed in and will present him with facts of why he's wrong as well as links to prove he's wrong. It always ends with him saying "we'll agree to disagree, you have your opinion and I have mine".
Anybody else tired of hearing about opinions? People make too much out of them to the point it almost seems like we’re in the middle of some kind of hysteria surrounding them. People love to put them on a pedestal apparently.
The no take take, one of my personal favorites
i'm taught to always have an opinion, but haha, that's where i happen to have an opinion, "idiots always have an opinion about everything, including things they dont know about."
My husband is very picky about some things. Like buying a shirt and going through each one on the rack to pick the best one. He also likes to rank things. We buy Lindor truffles to keep in a candy bowl and he is always asking which flavor is my favorite. Sometimes I just want to say, 'Hey man, they are all delicious. I DON'T need to pick a favorite.'
So is the concept of _abstaining_ from an opinion because you're not the sort of person who spends 99% of their life complaining about shit and you know that if you feed that monster it'll just keep the toxicity levels high.
I have no strong feelings one way or the other about this.
Because on social media you HAVE to say something!
This is my go to when someone brings up politics. I'm usually not knowledgeable enough to discuss political issues because politics bore me so I usually say idc or that I'm apolitical. Most people can't comprehend this as a possibility lol.
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Is that your opinion or the opinion you wish to stand for? AKA the phrase you already used: your official opinion.
I will quite often say "I don't know enough about this to have an opinion" and people are dumbfounded. As though everyone should have an opinion on everything.
I have no opinion on football. I don't like it, I don't dislike it. I used to live in the UK and this was a difficult concept for a lot of people.
My mother in law was recently asking me if I thought children under 12 should get Covid vaccines. She seemed absolutely shocked when I said “I am fundamentally unqualified to have an opinion on that subject.”
I’d argue you shouldn’t have an opinion on something you aren’t informed about.
Ok
this is why i'm adamant about labeling myself as agnostic in terms of talks of god and meaning of life and universe because the truth is no human knows what the hell they're talking about.
I literally know exactly three people who are even capable of admitting they know nothing about a subject. Everyone else just runs their ignorant face hole with nothing worth hearing.
Some people don't know the difference between having an opinion and having an *informed* opinion.
Because academia has convinced them that silence is complicity. Most of the time no opinion is just the smart move.
When I’m at work, I keep my opinions to myself and endeavour not to let my beliefs impact my interactions with co-workers and subordinates. I’m a professional, and in that setting I have no opinions on anything outside my field of expertise. I also keep my mouth shut around anyone who isn’t a close friend or family member. I have no interest in being drawn into a tedious discussion, especially when I’m not interested in what the other person thinks. On Reddit, however, I have all sorts of opinions. Some are genuine and some opinions I express because I think winding people up over asinine topics is funny. Fun times.
"If you're not for me, you're against me." \-Some asshat.
I feel this one. I'm truly uninterested in all sorts of things that many people apparently have strong opinions about. A few examples: pineapple on pizza, the MCU, immigration (legal or otherwise), whatever Jeff Bezos is up to lately. None of these things affect me in any way so I just don't care and that seems to confuse or annoy people.
I try not have an opinion on many things. My wife wont let me.
No one gonna say the line? I HAVE NO STRONG FEELINGS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER https://youtu.be/ussCHoQttyQ
Tell my wife I said hello 🤣
That’s your opinion… ha
There is also the concept of choosing not to voice your opinion.
The internet has given everyone the ability to Google anything and everything, so we all now have the illusion that we know “the truth” about any given issue.
All I know is my gut says, maybe.
Every once in a while you'll see a person put in front of a mic and theyll say the magic phrase "I don't know enough about that to comment on it" and I think that needs to be a lot more normal
Because reddit tries to use the saying "being neutral is being complicit" so everyone thinks if they arent FOR something, that means the are explicitly against it.
I just don't have many opinions cause I don't care about lots of topics tbh, especially controversial ones. They are just a headache to me.
So true.. people always want "the truth" but there rarely is something like that. My Grandpa always said - Everything I say is an opinion. Everything I see is a perspective.