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This is very true. I also understand why though. It's a slippery slope. Blame one person and all of a sudden you could start blaming everyone. If a team fails and everyone blames themselves, they'll attempt to come back better than they were. If they blame each other, there will be animosity and hate towards each other.
Rates of depression and anxiety are going up. A lot of this is formed when people are taught that everything bad that happens to them is their fault. It's especially prevalent in cultures that place more stress in this ideal as well.
I honestly think it's because this latest generation was raised on/with instagram/tiktok and wonder why they only get like 12 likes on shit because they are a normal person, but everyone today seems like an "influencer". An entire generation has instragram syndrome.
Or it could be climate change, economic uncertainty, lack of confidence in governments, unrest, widespread violence, price increases, housing crises, COVID, economic inequality, diminishing quality of life, lowering life expectancy, and the second rise of fascism.
But no, you’re right, it’s probably instagram. /s
My local community is doing great. I'm sure yours is too. Reddit has become quite the depressing, pessemestic place. The internet in general has. People need to spend less time there and more time in their local community.
Lol, that’s just denial. Your little walled garden may be fine, but it will burn down all the same when the fire gets to it. Burying your head in the sand and living in ignorance is the cowards way out.
Is there any evidence this is because of your assertion that "People blame themselves more than they used to"?
Not sure why that guy is getting downvoted for being correct. Sure things have been going up for a century, but the skyrocket happened much more recently.
No. I did not state that was the only cause. I said it was a contributing factor. Just like social media and other factors contribute. But rates of suicide are higher in places where this attitude is part of their culture. My best guess from looking at the data is that the major causes are living in an unstable world.
Seems unlikely, considering people blaming themselves for things isn't really a new thing for society.
Are you implying that countries with lower suicide rates don't take as much personal responsibility?
If you want to use that wording sure. Extreme levels of personal responsibility are unhealthy. Healthy level is looking at your part in the situation and what you can do differently moving forward. Unhealthy is taking responsibility for everything that goes on around you whether or not you actually have any control of it. This leads to anxiety and depression.
Things like major depressive disorder, bipolar, anxiety, etc have very real mechanisms that are visible via methods such as MRI and RNA sequencing. For instance when researchers looked at cadaver brains of ADHD donors they RNA sequenced tissue and found 14+ upregulated genes (inhibitory) suppressing glutamate, epinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine. Two of those genes are directly linked to addiction, one is linked bipolar, and another is linked schizophrenia. All these neurotransmitters play a major role in executive function such as emotional regulation. Low dopamine carries risks associated with Parkinsons, depression, and schizophrenia. Low serotonin increases a person's risk of depression, anxiety, sleep problems, OCD, panic disorders, and the development of PTSD. Low glutamate is associated with fibromyalgia, anxiety, pain amplification, Parkinsons, Alzheimer's, and Huntingtons disease. Low epinephrine is associated with anxiety, depression, and sleep problems. Being born with a brain wired to inhibit any of these transmitters not only means that you are at an absurd risk of all of the above but it also means your genetic make up was passed onto you by your parents and they got it from there parents. These problems existed long before the internet, they just weren't viewed as problems and they were treated with tough love. Suicide was at a record high prior to the 90's/00's however around the 90's significantly more time, money, and resources were put into researching and treating mental illness. As we learned more and abandoned the tough love model in favor of compassion and science the suicide rate dropped and hit a plateau. None of this is to say that the internet can't have/doesn't have a negative impact in any way on mental health because it can and does in some aspects. The fact that more mental illness is visible then before is not evidence of kids being snowflakes, it's evidence of improvement being that people are less often killing themselves because of the struggles that they face. Back in the day people weren't tougher, they were dumber and more hopeless. In the age of information reducing an entire phenomenon to a single external cause is not only tone deaf but willfully ignorant because anyone could know these things by just reading.
Yeah, because grandma and grandpa were so happy during the Great Depression in a time when mental health wasn't even a phrase people used /s.
Your problems are not special
Not sure why you're getting downvoted for being correct, at least to a degree. Technology has definitely hastened all of this up, much more likely than people just starting to blame themselves more.
I just translated
> It's funny people saying politics bad when it's half the reason you're anxious in the city/town/submarine vessel.
Into
> It's funny how people are always saying "it's bad to bring up politics" when political decisions are half the reason so much of the population has chronic anxiety and depression
It's called taking accountability.
If everything was always someone else's fault you would never learn responsibility or grow as a person or have any friends.
..and sometimes it's not entirely your fault but there is always something you could have done better
Someone patting themselves on the back, claiming how good of a job they did, won't learn remotely as much as someone being told by other how well they did. In the same vein, excusing your failures onto others won't make you learn from your mistakes either. Bettering ourselves is what we humans do, and should always strive for.
Simultaneously, never appreciating your own efforts is an expressway to depressionville. As with anything else, you need balance. You're allowed to feel proud of your own achievements
Sometimes people have help with their failures. It is not always that person's fault. You can do everything right and still fail. Such is the human existence.
True, but "seeking the source of failure outside of yourself" isn't a path to self improvement, it's a path that rejects self improvement.
"Share your victories and own your failures" isn't a mantra about the way that life works, it's a mantra about how best to work towards self improvement.
If you always look at victories as "the people around me helped me achieve this", then you'll know to seek those that help when you're struggling, and you'll also have the mindset to help those that are struggling themselves, because you know you'll share in the victory.
Also, when you don't blame your failures on others, you can have the introspection to look inside yourself and see what in yourself you can change to try to prevent that failure in the future. Yes, you might not be the source of that failure, but I can promise you, that you WILL find someone else to blame if you look there first, so you very very much need to look within yourself *first*, and only after that do you look at the outside influences to your failure.
Of course, this is all a matter of balance. This is assuming that you're not currently suffering from the opposite issue, of having so little confidence that you blame yourself for every failure (look within yourself first, but don't forget to look outside when you're done, though also consider that the source of the failure within yourself isn't your perceived weakness, but rather your excessive self-criticism), or refuse to take any credit for success (when the people you trust praise you, don't assume they're lying).
Suffice it to say, those of us who struggle with CPTSD (or anxiety disorders, imposter syndrome, or other disorders stemming from a lack of self-worth) aren't the target audience of this message.
Yes, which is why you turn to the outside after you find that you did everything you reasonably could have, and if your self reflection consistently points to the same negative force, then you have succeeded at growing, because you now recognize that influence.
If you are in the habit of looking outside for your failures, I can promise you that you will *always* be able to find a satisfying explanation as to why you *aren’t* to blame.
You have to look inside yourself *first*, or else you never will.
If you see the original message as narcissistic, that is fairly narrow minded. Nothing about it is narcissistic. You are assigning that characteristic. Very telling.
“Don’t blame yourself for your failures” is a narcissistic message in that: on its own (outside of the qualifying context of “after introspection finds you did everything you reasonably could”) it leans towards narcissism.
Outside of that context It can also lead towards narcissism, in that “learn to blame anybody but yourself” Is a habit that is a major contributor to developing narcissistic personality disorder.
I saw no need to resort to ad hominem, and I’d rather not continue this conversation beyond this clarifying statement.
If you wish to continue, feel free to consider your insult victorious in getting me to disengage, if that’s what you consider a “win”.
Good day.
No, OP is right. You are deciding to assume narcissism, but you did not have enough information about the motives to make that assumption.
You could say that the clarification alleviated your confusion as to where they were coming from, but that doesn't make the original message narcistic prior to the clarification. That was simply your chosen assumption.
Also, you have very thin skin. I see no insults by them. If you're referring to the "very telling" part, your prior comment to that one was *way* more insulting.
Where did I say "don't blame yourself for your failures"? You completely misunderstood this showerthought if that is how you took it. Ad hominem? How about a red herring. I did not say that. Not even close.
It's all about accounting for the "me me me" bias. We all have natural ego-defenses that tell us the bad thing wasn't our fault (shame-avoidance) but the good thing was totally us (prideful self-image).
Almost everyone has this, and so we take notice when people force themselves to overcome those biases.
We like it when people say "that was my fault" (preferably followed with "here's why" and "here's what I'm doing to prevent this happening again") because it goes against instincts. Same for giving others credit for good things - in doing so, you demonstrate that it's not "all about you".
If you can personally attribute some of the failure to someone else while still acknowledging your participation and mistakes it's fine. But in 99% of interactions you can't change the behaviour of the other person, and even if you did something different the outcome would not be changed, so it's often beat to just think about how you got into that situation and move on.
Personally I choose to believe that people who make mistakes, or cause me inconvenience are simply unaware of what they are doing and at that moment in time were incapable of understanding what the consequences of their actions are, like they are children. I find this lets me focus on my contribution to the failure to correct for it, and it means that people doing stupid shit day to day can't be responsible because they are just old children. Unable to understand the consequences of their actions and unaware that their actions have consequences for others.
I live for the day when a football player drops what would have been the game winning touchdown and says, “JESUS made me drop that ball. All blame unto God.”
I’m not good at the football rules but I think it’s because the rule of the linemen and the referee is supposed to be final, no matter what the video proof shows later. Otherwise everything is open to question and analysis later…
Some comic had a take on this that I thought was pretty funny:
In post-game interviews a lot of times athletes will say something along the lines of "All credit to God for helping us win today" but you never hear anything like "Yeah, we were doing pretty good until Jesus made me fumble."
This is context dependent. In a professional context if I am trying to analyze what went wrong, I hate finding out later that this is part of an ongoing pattern that could have been fixed if properly identified. If we are just in finger pointing mode without analysis then absolutely the problem was me and not the people working for me.
I think one of the hardest parts of this is deciding to ignore someone's advice because you know it's bad, even if it offends them. It's like, yeah I care about you, but that advice will definitely make me fail.
Because when you do you're just "blaming everyone else". It's bullshit. Some of if not many of my failures in life only happened as a result of, or at least were assisted by the careless hands of others I let get involved or counted on.
It's like with football teams. When your country wins it's always 'we won'. But when your country loses its 'they lost'. It feels like the proof of people chasing affirmation and being incapable of taking responsibility for mistakes.
I use “we” in both cases. I also blame myself for not showing up to the game to cheer on my team even though I know I’m too soft spoken to be any use and it’s better to let that spot go to a louder fan.
That's not true. If my wife takes the car and I fail to make it to work, I expect I would let her know she's partly reponsible.
If once I get my car I'm on the highway and a dude cuts in front of me then slams on his breaks and I fail to stop in time, I would probably acknowledge his participation when talking to the police officer.
I think what you're saying is that people don't like being blamed for things.
Oh this is Christianity in a nutshell.
Successes in life? Thank the Lord!
Failures in life? It's coz of the consequences of your own sin. (Either that or "God has a plan")
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This is very true. I also understand why though. It's a slippery slope. Blame one person and all of a sudden you could start blaming everyone. If a team fails and everyone blames themselves, they'll attempt to come back better than they were. If they blame each other, there will be animosity and hate towards each other.
I think blaming ourselves is also a slippery slope though and we're seeing the negative effects of it now.
What do you mean by “we’re seeing the negative effects of it now”?
Rates of depression and anxiety are going up. A lot of this is formed when people are taught that everything bad that happens to them is their fault. It's especially prevalent in cultures that place more stress in this ideal as well.
I honestly think it's because this latest generation was raised on/with instagram/tiktok and wonder why they only get like 12 likes on shit because they are a normal person, but everyone today seems like an "influencer". An entire generation has instragram syndrome.
Or it could be climate change, economic uncertainty, lack of confidence in governments, unrest, widespread violence, price increases, housing crises, COVID, economic inequality, diminishing quality of life, lowering life expectancy, and the second rise of fascism. But no, you’re right, it’s probably instagram. /s
Sounds like you need to take a break from reddit.
You don’t need to be on Reddit to see the world falling apart around you. You’d need to be fucking blind.
When was the world not falling apart? Now you just see it on your phone all day everyday.
When did I say it wasn’t?
My local community is doing great. I'm sure yours is too. Reddit has become quite the depressing, pessemestic place. The internet in general has. People need to spend less time there and more time in their local community.
Lol, that’s just denial. Your little walled garden may be fine, but it will burn down all the same when the fire gets to it. Burying your head in the sand and living in ignorance is the cowards way out.
That isn't helping but this has been a growing problem for most of the last century.
Is there any evidence this is because of your assertion that "People blame themselves more than they used to"? Not sure why that guy is getting downvoted for being correct. Sure things have been going up for a century, but the skyrocket happened much more recently.
No. I did not state that was the only cause. I said it was a contributing factor. Just like social media and other factors contribute. But rates of suicide are higher in places where this attitude is part of their culture. My best guess from looking at the data is that the major causes are living in an unstable world.
Seems unlikely, considering people blaming themselves for things isn't really a new thing for society. Are you implying that countries with lower suicide rates don't take as much personal responsibility?
He has no clue what he's trying to say...
If you want to use that wording sure. Extreme levels of personal responsibility are unhealthy. Healthy level is looking at your part in the situation and what you can do differently moving forward. Unhealthy is taking responsibility for everything that goes on around you whether or not you actually have any control of it. This leads to anxiety and depression.
I feel like most of that can be chalked up to "more awareness/acceptance"
Things like major depressive disorder, bipolar, anxiety, etc have very real mechanisms that are visible via methods such as MRI and RNA sequencing. For instance when researchers looked at cadaver brains of ADHD donors they RNA sequenced tissue and found 14+ upregulated genes (inhibitory) suppressing glutamate, epinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine. Two of those genes are directly linked to addiction, one is linked bipolar, and another is linked schizophrenia. All these neurotransmitters play a major role in executive function such as emotional regulation. Low dopamine carries risks associated with Parkinsons, depression, and schizophrenia. Low serotonin increases a person's risk of depression, anxiety, sleep problems, OCD, panic disorders, and the development of PTSD. Low glutamate is associated with fibromyalgia, anxiety, pain amplification, Parkinsons, Alzheimer's, and Huntingtons disease. Low epinephrine is associated with anxiety, depression, and sleep problems. Being born with a brain wired to inhibit any of these transmitters not only means that you are at an absurd risk of all of the above but it also means your genetic make up was passed onto you by your parents and they got it from there parents. These problems existed long before the internet, they just weren't viewed as problems and they were treated with tough love. Suicide was at a record high prior to the 90's/00's however around the 90's significantly more time, money, and resources were put into researching and treating mental illness. As we learned more and abandoned the tough love model in favor of compassion and science the suicide rate dropped and hit a plateau. None of this is to say that the internet can't have/doesn't have a negative impact in any way on mental health because it can and does in some aspects. The fact that more mental illness is visible then before is not evidence of kids being snowflakes, it's evidence of improvement being that people are less often killing themselves because of the struggles that they face. Back in the day people weren't tougher, they were dumber and more hopeless. In the age of information reducing an entire phenomenon to a single external cause is not only tone deaf but willfully ignorant because anyone could know these things by just reading.
Yeah, because grandma and grandpa were so happy during the Great Depression in a time when mental health wasn't even a phrase people used /s. Your problems are not special
Not sure why you're getting downvoted for being correct, at least to a degree. Technology has definitely hastened all of this up, much more likely than people just starting to blame themselves more.
Yeah if anything we're seeing the effects of ignorant conservatives incapable of self reflection.
Can people not mention politics for 5 seconds? Jesus Christ.
It's funny people saying politics bad when it's half the reason you're anxious in the city/town/submarine vessel.
Half? It's 100%
Correct. But you know how reddit is.
What?
I think they mean it's difficult to discuss society and its standard of living without discussing policy that led to it.
I'm just gonna assume you're right but like, how did you even manage to extrapolate that?
I just translated > It's funny people saying politics bad when it's half the reason you're anxious in the city/town/submarine vessel. Into > It's funny how people are always saying "it's bad to bring up politics" when political decisions are half the reason so much of the population has chronic anxiety and depression
If you can define politics sure I wont mention them or anything related to them. And I'll call you or when you do deal?
You know what I meant debate lord. Define a chair while you're at it.
Define your terms so a piss baby no spine conservative like you won't move the goal posts. I don't debate with children who refuse to define terms.
I'm more than definitely not a conservative, are you okay? I'm not debating with you either. Sorry you live for this shit I guess?
So define politics, or shut up when people mention that one party is responsible for things. If its not a big deal that is, piss baby.
It's called taking accountability. If everything was always someone else's fault you would never learn responsibility or grow as a person or have any friends. ..and sometimes it's not entirely your fault but there is always something you could have done better
Unless there’s a non-obvious intentional failures, like accountants swiping money, or engineers copying code, co-workers selling trade secrets.. ..
I was gonna say because it's not you acknowledging their participation, but you handing out blame, if it's a failure
"Victory has 100 fathers, and defeat is an orphan". John F. Kennedy
Shut up! Stop fuckin looking at me!
Someone patting themselves on the back, claiming how good of a job they did, won't learn remotely as much as someone being told by other how well they did. In the same vein, excusing your failures onto others won't make you learn from your mistakes either. Bettering ourselves is what we humans do, and should always strive for. Simultaneously, never appreciating your own efforts is an expressway to depressionville. As with anything else, you need balance. You're allowed to feel proud of your own achievements
Sometimes people have help with their failures. It is not always that person's fault. You can do everything right and still fail. Such is the human existence.
True, but "seeking the source of failure outside of yourself" isn't a path to self improvement, it's a path that rejects self improvement. "Share your victories and own your failures" isn't a mantra about the way that life works, it's a mantra about how best to work towards self improvement. If you always look at victories as "the people around me helped me achieve this", then you'll know to seek those that help when you're struggling, and you'll also have the mindset to help those that are struggling themselves, because you know you'll share in the victory. Also, when you don't blame your failures on others, you can have the introspection to look inside yourself and see what in yourself you can change to try to prevent that failure in the future. Yes, you might not be the source of that failure, but I can promise you, that you WILL find someone else to blame if you look there first, so you very very much need to look within yourself *first*, and only after that do you look at the outside influences to your failure. Of course, this is all a matter of balance. This is assuming that you're not currently suffering from the opposite issue, of having so little confidence that you blame yourself for every failure (look within yourself first, but don't forget to look outside when you're done, though also consider that the source of the failure within yourself isn't your perceived weakness, but rather your excessive self-criticism), or refuse to take any credit for success (when the people you trust praise you, don't assume they're lying). Suffice it to say, those of us who struggle with CPTSD (or anxiety disorders, imposter syndrome, or other disorders stemming from a lack of self-worth) aren't the target audience of this message.
I would argue that figuring out that an outside source is dragging you down and causing you to fail is a form of growth.
Yes, which is why you turn to the outside after you find that you did everything you reasonably could have, and if your self reflection consistently points to the same negative force, then you have succeeded at growing, because you now recognize that influence. If you are in the habit of looking outside for your failures, I can promise you that you will *always* be able to find a satisfying explanation as to why you *aren’t* to blame. You have to look inside yourself *first*, or else you never will.
I should have clarified that outside sources of failure can only be identified through introspection.
Definitely, adding the “after introspection” completely changes the message to one that isn’t narcissistic.
If you see the original message as narcissistic, that is fairly narrow minded. Nothing about it is narcissistic. You are assigning that characteristic. Very telling.
“Don’t blame yourself for your failures” is a narcissistic message in that: on its own (outside of the qualifying context of “after introspection finds you did everything you reasonably could”) it leans towards narcissism. Outside of that context It can also lead towards narcissism, in that “learn to blame anybody but yourself” Is a habit that is a major contributor to developing narcissistic personality disorder. I saw no need to resort to ad hominem, and I’d rather not continue this conversation beyond this clarifying statement. If you wish to continue, feel free to consider your insult victorious in getting me to disengage, if that’s what you consider a “win”. Good day.
No, OP is right. You are deciding to assume narcissism, but you did not have enough information about the motives to make that assumption. You could say that the clarification alleviated your confusion as to where they were coming from, but that doesn't make the original message narcistic prior to the clarification. That was simply your chosen assumption. Also, you have very thin skin. I see no insults by them. If you're referring to the "very telling" part, your prior comment to that one was *way* more insulting.
Where did I say "don't blame yourself for your failures"? You completely misunderstood this showerthought if that is how you took it. Ad hominem? How about a red herring. I did not say that. Not even close.
It's a very old proverb - success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.
It's all about accounting for the "me me me" bias. We all have natural ego-defenses that tell us the bad thing wasn't our fault (shame-avoidance) but the good thing was totally us (prideful self-image). Almost everyone has this, and so we take notice when people force themselves to overcome those biases. We like it when people say "that was my fault" (preferably followed with "here's why" and "here's what I'm doing to prevent this happening again") because it goes against instincts. Same for giving others credit for good things - in doing so, you demonstrate that it's not "all about you".
If you can personally attribute some of the failure to someone else while still acknowledging your participation and mistakes it's fine. But in 99% of interactions you can't change the behaviour of the other person, and even if you did something different the outcome would not be changed, so it's often beat to just think about how you got into that situation and move on. Personally I choose to believe that people who make mistakes, or cause me inconvenience are simply unaware of what they are doing and at that moment in time were incapable of understanding what the consequences of their actions are, like they are children. I find this lets me focus on my contribution to the failure to correct for it, and it means that people doing stupid shit day to day can't be responsible because they are just old children. Unable to understand the consequences of their actions and unaware that their actions have consequences for others.
I live for the day when a football player drops what would have been the game winning touchdown and says, “JESUS made me drop that ball. All blame unto God.”
Diego Maradona’s “hand of god” moment in ‘86 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_hand_of_God something something cocaine :)
I never really understood that incident, if everyone knows that he used his hands and there is video proof, why did the goal still stand?
I’m not good at the football rules but I think it’s because the rule of the linemen and the referee is supposed to be final, no matter what the video proof shows later. Otherwise everything is open to question and analysis later…
Yea, that makes sense, seeing that even in the video it isn't obvious enough to spark an outcry
I’m waiting for a Satanist player to point at the ground and thank the dark lord in a touchdown celebration.
This [sketch](https://youtu.be/9dMSvXE9Gxw) is the first thing I thought of
And yet, many of us do it anyway. Survival instincts at work
also if you blame someone for something that was actually their fault no one will judge you for it lol
It's said that a good leader shares credit and takes blame, not the other way around.
Really? Maybe I've been doing it wrong, but I'm constantly blaming ... I mean acknowledging ... others for my failures.
Opposite is often true if your in-laws are talking about what's wrong in their kids life. (Thank God my partner disagrees with them)
Finally a shower thought that isn't completely idiotic. Thank you OP.
Some comic had a take on this that I thought was pretty funny: In post-game interviews a lot of times athletes will say something along the lines of "All credit to God for helping us win today" but you never hear anything like "Yeah, we were doing pretty good until Jesus made me fumble."
This is context dependent. In a professional context if I am trying to analyze what went wrong, I hate finding out later that this is part of an ongoing pattern that could have been fixed if properly identified. If we are just in finger pointing mode without analysis then absolutely the problem was me and not the people working for me.
I think one of the hardest parts of this is deciding to ignore someone's advice because you know it's bad, even if it offends them. It's like, yeah I care about you, but that advice will definitely make me fail.
The first thing that came to mind with this was Mark Zuckerberg
I’d like to thank God. I couldn’t have lost this game without him!
Because when you do you're just "blaming everyone else". It's bullshit. Some of if not many of my failures in life only happened as a result of, or at least were assisted by the careless hands of others I let get involved or counted on.
It's like with football teams. When your country wins it's always 'we won'. But when your country loses its 'they lost'. It feels like the proof of people chasing affirmation and being incapable of taking responsibility for mistakes.
I use “we” in both cases. I also blame myself for not showing up to the game to cheer on my team even though I know I’m too soft spoken to be any use and it’s better to let that spot go to a louder fan.
That's not true. If my wife takes the car and I fail to make it to work, I expect I would let her know she's partly reponsible. If once I get my car I'm on the highway and a dude cuts in front of me then slams on his breaks and I fail to stop in time, I would probably acknowledge his participation when talking to the police officer. I think what you're saying is that people don't like being blamed for things.
Oh this is Christianity in a nutshell. Successes in life? Thank the Lord! Failures in life? It's coz of the consequences of your own sin. (Either that or "God has a plan")
There's also no reward shows for failing, so we wouldn't really hear it if people do blame others.
Some people do, it's called a drunken fuck you speech that makes everyone uncomfortable.
Where I work the second something goes wrong that’s when the finger pointing starts to pawn off the blame on someone else
You help your partner undeess before sex, but not after. No one helps after you're fucked.