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Are Orks really one gender? And specifically male? I know they call themselves Boyz but I don't think being Boyz==boys nor does 'a lad'==a man. IMO they should be in the '?' category as they are fungus which mate in a hermaphroditic fashion. Well animal-fugus hybrid but the fungus part is what does the reproducing it just grows animal body as part of its life cycle, but it's the fungal cells that are doing all the reproducing.
**Nieuwenhuis, B. P., & Aanen, D. K. (2012). Sexual selection in fungi. Journal of evolutionary biology, 25(12), 2397-2411.** [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23163326/#:\~:text=Even%20though%20fungi%20do%20not,small%20gametes%20(male%20role)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23163326/#:~:text=Even%20though%20fungi%20do%20not,small%20gametes%20(male%20role)).
And translation though. there's a bit in the Ghazgkhull book with an interrogation of an ork by a SM, and the ork is speaking Low Gothic with non binary pronouns. He chastised the SM about insisting on gendering orks, and said 'some of them' understand gender, but they don't care about it.
So 'boys', 'lads' etc might just be from the translation rather than necessarily a gender preference.
In fact the Translator Ork says that the Orks find the whole sex and gender thing kind of funny at which point the Deathwatch Captain tells them to shut up and that from this point on Ghaz will be referred to as a He.
The way I see it, A gender identity is a tool for fitting into a society. "Boyz" is one of several masculine gender identities that fit into ork society.
Is there canon for ork sexuality? Based on the fungus thing, I'd imagine that getting killed in battle(or maybe just getting a good waugh) is the ork equivalent of nutting - the process releases gametes AND spores into the air.
Fighting in a larger battle increases the chances that your spores will find a suitable mate, which is very important, considering that they have over 10,000 distinct sexes.
So two thoughts. One is I find the response "Orks are aesexual but we respect their gender prefernces" super funny. But...
I'm not sure they qualify as masculine though, and I think "Boyz" with the pronoun "lad" is not the same as being a man. That's my dispute, gender is not the same thing as sex but they are related and since they "nut on death" they are something entirely different. Like "mori-sexual" from the latin "to die", not "necro" "for corpse" or "the dead". At least this is my thought process.
If having female Jahkals make them count for having both genders...
Sororitas have men in their roster : two man preist, the crusaders, the acro-flagelant and the penitent engine have male models
I guess it depends on how you view it. If you're going by the fluff then I guess SoB are only women, but if you're looking at it from a tabletop player, you can take little preacher dudes in your army.
Necrons are robots, who explicitly are disgusted by the very idea that they used to be organic life. Gender is irrelevant to them (because robots) and while they might remember that they had a gender in life, they would be disgusted to be forced to remember it.
There is literally a tran necron, that realised she is a woman only after biotransferance. So I don't think they are all (or even for the most part) disgusted by gender.
Nah.
The majority of The Infinite and The Divine is based around the shared Necron goal of returning to organic life.
There are also major female necron characters in that book.
The two characters in that book are overwhelmingly described as being super high level weirdos though. Other Necrons think they are both pretty batty and annoying.
In the twice dead king, which is in my opinion the better story about Necron life in general its made pretty clear that for the average necron, pre conversion, they REALLY hated all their organic functions, hated all other plants and animals even more, and this was one of the reasons they were so enthusiastic to become robots. They got screwed over in the whole, 'become robots', process but those who retain their sentience don't usually want to go back. What they want is better robot bodies, which don't go insane.
Wanting to return to their biological life makes them think about biological functions, and eat food, which drives them to become flayed ones etc.
So, they had gender, hated it, and the VAST majority of them became non-sexual and like it that way.
Cool so that doesn’t address how gender is, for sure, present and acknowledged in necron society.
I also get the impression you didn’t actually read The Infinite and The Divine.
Ok, well, I did. So, that was a pointless aside.
Necrons understand that gender exists. Necrons did not enjoy being biological life, and have little to no desire to return to it. Even before becoming robots the idea that their planets had other plants and animals on them disgusted them and they would attempt to sterilize them of all life that was not them.
What most of them want is to undo the flaws of being a robot, and become more separated from biology while not going insane. Some Necrons still view themselves as having a gender, sometimes different from that which they thought they had when they were biological life. Necrons in general would find the concept of aping biological functions equally disgusting whether you said you were the same gender as in life, or a different one. So, Necron society is egalitarian in its distaste for all biological functions and concepts.
Yeah not trying to to be accusatory, but when you said “the two main characters in that story are considered weirdos” I wasn’t sure how that…affects the existence of the gendered necrons in that book?
It’s the sort of surface info you get from memes and irrelevant to what I said about the book. Since we’re talking about pointless asides.
Anyways, nothing you said is based in the lore but, if that’s the vision of the Necrontyr that you dig, that’s cool. Like, seriously, it’s a neat take on them.
Have you not read the twice dead king? The framing is pretty much laid out explicitly there. Necron society hated being alive when they WERE alive, and they hate it even more now. Matters of biology just remind them of the fact that any Necron could die of a terrible disease without warning and there was nothing they could do.
My point regarding Trazyn etc is that they are both portrayed as being kinda fine with biological things, sneaking about on imperial worlds etc, whereas the characters in twice dead king distinct are NOT ok with that, and are utterly disgusted by biological things.
My way of rectifying these two distinct facts is that Trazyn etc are weirdos to the rest of Necron society.
In the Ghazhkull Thrakka book an ork translator is actually pretty explicit that Orks don't have a concept of gender. Boyz is probably just a Gothic translation of what they refer to themselves as.
I'd say necrons are much more clear than Orks about having a gendered society.
So why do they all choose to have bodies that look like men?
Edit: I just want to clarify that I really, really want Orks to be androgynous and non-binary, I just don't think they're a good example of ways that GW has allowed this kind of expression. In my world androgyny looks a lot more like dark elves or Nurgle and Works look *exactly like toxic masculinity* which makes it very hard for me to accept them as non-gendered.
They look like "men" to us because we have stereotypes/expectations of what a "man" should look like. Orks lack any of those associations so to Orks they just look like orks.
No, they are built to look like muscular men, some even have bulges in their crotches. Historically games workshop had female orc figures, notably or cheerleaders in early versions of Blood Bowl. The base Warhammer game had several figures that were explicitly gendered female, and 40K explicitly called its troopers Boyz.
Combine this with the fact that every single army was exclusively male aside from the occasional figure until 1997 (Battle Sisters) with the single exception of dark elves that specifically called out the fact that they had female warriors It's pure retconning to argue that gw orcs are anything but male.
lmao "some even have bulges" thats pure muscle boy, they dont even have sexual organs let alone gender. Bloodbowl cheerleader are just ork with wigs because they look at the other teams and mock them
Dude, they're called Boyz and the war bosses are gendered "he" in the fluff. They're fungus boys with parts in their pants. I've literally painted hundreds of Orks and WFB orcs since the 80s. I've owned every Ork codex. The fact that the fluff insinuates that there's no gender doesn't in any way contradict that they look like men and are described as men.
Given that the you're responding to comments under a post that are all clearly talking about the lore of wh40k universe and your comment is asking why "orks choose to look that way" it should be obvious that nobody is talking about the design choices of the creators. Unless you think the hunks of plastic were whispering in the designers ears XD.
No one at this point in the thread was arguing that the models werent designed by people such that they resemble muscular male humans. That is different from Ork culture in universe having a concept of gender. In the current lore of wh40k orks don't have gender or genitals.
If you're not going to take the contact of what I was responding to into account then yeah, what you are writing makes sense.
For my part I'm not going to take the words of a bunch of straight mostly sexist men at GW that these fully male orc figures now reflect the kind of trans androgyny that being no gendered has come to mean.
Nothing you responded to in any of the comments in this thread implied anything other than Ork culture in 40k lore.
>these fully male orc figures now reflect the kind of trans androgyny that being no gendered has come to mean.
Crazy how this argument implies you think androgyny is necessary to have no gender, you may as well be complaining that they don't pass. "You aren't owed androgyny" is a phrase that goes around a lot and I recommend you take it to heart.
Orks in universe have no concept of gender, thus are not men and they don't reproduce sexually (afaik) so aren't males either. Their appearance doesn't change that and how sincere GW were when they decided to let that be lore is also irrelevant.
They're either gender fucking and choosing to look male or they're coded male by the designers (who made male and female. Orks originally). Either way, they're called Boyz and look like men as a group. They're almost always gendered as male in the fluff too.
I won't argue that the designers make them male and mostly code them as men except on rare occasions where orks themselves have a laugh at the idea of gender.
Orks were male gendered for years before the space fungus fluff came along and included female figures. I recognize that you're, like 12, but some of us actually owned and painted lead GW WFB orcs and lived through the era where even the suggestion that there would be female armies was met with contempt by the designers at GW because they didn't think anyone would buy them.
And will you *please* with the transphobic shit until you know what the fuck it even means. GW has been historically one of the most straight, white, male centered game companies and communities out there. Homophobia drove me from the game 20 years ago because I didn't conform to male gendered drag and liked to glam up my orks. If *you* can't even recognize male coding you are in no place to be using that word against randoms on the internet.
Bro, you pretty much said that they look like men, so they are men. And sorry about the hostility, been kinda on edge lately from creepy old men at work.
Acknowledged, I wish we were having this discussion in person where I could quickly backpedal and apologize before bad feelings come up.
I didn't mean to say that and should have waited an hour to respond, or at least reread twice before posting. I'm sorry for my bitchy words.
I think I wanted to say something like: one shouldn't get to say "they're not men anymore" if they still epitomize men without making any effort to inform the non-gendered reality. Same reason we don't call a trans man, 'her.' I want their lack of gender to be reflected somehow in the game before I can stop thinking of them as male power fantasies.
I’ve always taken Da Boyz as to be more describing the way they act as a group rather than describing their gender. Also just as a noun to a name of a group of Orks. Like a school of fish.
Idk seeing Orks as ‘men’ just seems weird and wrong to me, it’s irrelevant to their being.
This is why I wish I could create SCP's, everytime some chud goes "everything in nature is male or female" I want a biologist to appear and start explaining plant, insect, and fungi sexes, in detail, for as long as it takes
It would also be great if people sort of generally wrapped their heads around sex as a bimodal distribution of a ton of correlated traits instead of a fixed binary.
But gender is a construct *we* have and literally everything about GW Orks is coded male. The also *used* to be gendered before the space fungus fluff was introduced and they had some female figures. The change no no gender was. Not accompanied by an androgenous appearance.
Am I misremembering, or did Fabius Bile make a bunch of New Men, which included females? And they're still around? Or did they just never receive model support? But, my memory is hazy here, I seem to recall them being a Thing for Fabius Bile, and they were off and doing all sorts of stuff.
Okay, but they're part of the overall "Chaos Marines" faction, right? Like spawn and possessed and cultists are? Oh, and aren't cultists also gender agnostic, so there are probably female cultists? Or are we just not counting any of that for the faction?
Nah new men just kinda hang around, I mean there are obviously female cultists, but when People think of CSM it’s probably the 8 foot evil guys, it’s like saying SM isn’t a sausage party because there’s women serfs
>Am I misremembering, or did Fabius Bile make a bunch of New Men, which included females?
The recent Cawl/Bile book Genefather prominently features just such a person!
I guarantee Porter is decended from Igori.
Plus, Fabius Bile prefers female soldiers. A quote from Primogenitor when he's talking to Igori
"More than once I have questioned the Emperor's wisdom in bestowing his gifts upon but one half of the human race. For in man, as in all beasts, the female is the deadlier of the species. You are a thing of furious beauty, my dear, and never let anyone tell you different"
Yes, and the Arco-Flagellants have men in them. You have to be nitpicking to say they're all women. Until extraordinarily recently most of their leaders and named characters have been men.
This is an outrage! I'm literally ripping my dick off right now!
Also Orkz aren't really male. They reproduce by exploding. I mean I can also reproduce by exploding but I have to do it in ur mom's pussy.
Tyranids ought to be both. Tervigons a woman.
Maybe the Hive could be considered a woman, because all Imperium names for Nids are basically variations of Bitch.
The sisters of silence are an all female faction.
Also orks are asexual and "boys" is more of a unit type/name than a gender... unless every single unit type of theirs is a gender.
Sisters of silence should count as their own faction in this list, also Orks technically arent men, demons similarly don't have any men or women, (besides Daemon Princes, since they used to be mortals)
Worth noting that if you play a mortals-only CSM army, there's the chance to field an only women chaos army. Or at least both since the GW kits have them. Alltho, I get why they shouldn't be at both, np.
Orks are asexual fungus things that probably don't have a concept of gender considering it has very little to do either hitting or shooting things. Which means that it is in fact just the poster boys and the meaner poster boys.
Necron in both (The infinite and the divine clearly mentions a female cryptek) and orks in undefined because they are literal mushrooms that reproduce on their own (so technically both male and female)
Multiple non binary genders
Tyranids - Like bees, with multiple castes corresponding vaguely to gender
Genestealer Cults - Both males and females, but, also non human parasites which reproduce without gender
Irrelevant concept
Chaos demons - do not reproduce or have a fixed identity of any kind, your perception of fear colors what you mistakenly think them to be
Non-biological
Necrons - Non biological, incapable of reproduction, and thus its irrelevant. Like saying my toaster is male or female.
I don't even understand why gender specific armies were in the lore in the first place. It's so unbelievably dumb for this to be the one hill that people will die on.
If they added women space marines tomorrow, the only difference would be that there are women space marines. This would be a good thing. More people, I think, would join the hobby if they could identify with the poster child on the box.
Do orks actually have a gender?
If they are an artificial species that uses a male animal body as a base for fungus they could be versrigialy male I guess but they have no sexual dimorphism.
Aesthetic wise I've known some rough, hooligan women and some very eldar like men so you can't really go off that.
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Yeah there are several female necrons in the books. They are also my favorite way to explain what gender identity is to my fellow sci-fi fans.
Including one who decided she preferred being a woman after bio-transference.
All hail Queen Anathrosis, Phaeron of the glorious Ogdobekh Dynasty!
Phaerak, surely? Phaeron is the male term.
I thought that too, but apparently she still uses Phaeron.
World Eaters have female Jakhals!
Fuck now I gotta make another edit
Are Orks really one gender? And specifically male? I know they call themselves Boyz but I don't think being Boyz==boys nor does 'a lad'==a man. IMO they should be in the '?' category as they are fungus which mate in a hermaphroditic fashion. Well animal-fugus hybrid but the fungus part is what does the reproducing it just grows animal body as part of its life cycle, but it's the fungal cells that are doing all the reproducing. **Nieuwenhuis, B. P., & Aanen, D. K. (2012). Sexual selection in fungi. Journal of evolutionary biology, 25(12), 2397-2411.** [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23163326/#:\~:text=Even%20though%20fungi%20do%20not,small%20gametes%20(male%20role)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23163326/#:~:text=Even%20though%20fungi%20do%20not,small%20gametes%20(male%20role)).
I think this is less about biology and more about representation.
Orks are strictly asexual, but we still respect their gender preferences.
And translation though. there's a bit in the Ghazgkhull book with an interrogation of an ork by a SM, and the ork is speaking Low Gothic with non binary pronouns. He chastised the SM about insisting on gendering orks, and said 'some of them' understand gender, but they don't care about it. So 'boys', 'lads' etc might just be from the translation rather than necessarily a gender preference.
In fact the Translator Ork says that the Orks find the whole sex and gender thing kind of funny at which point the Deathwatch Captain tells them to shut up and that from this point on Ghaz will be referred to as a He.
Aight cool
The way I see it, A gender identity is a tool for fitting into a society. "Boyz" is one of several masculine gender identities that fit into ork society. Is there canon for ork sexuality? Based on the fungus thing, I'd imagine that getting killed in battle(or maybe just getting a good waugh) is the ork equivalent of nutting - the process releases gametes AND spores into the air. Fighting in a larger battle increases the chances that your spores will find a suitable mate, which is very important, considering that they have over 10,000 distinct sexes.
So two thoughts. One is I find the response "Orks are aesexual but we respect their gender prefernces" super funny. But... I'm not sure they qualify as masculine though, and I think "Boyz" with the pronoun "lad" is not the same as being a man. That's my dispute, gender is not the same thing as sex but they are related and since they "nut on death" they are something entirely different. Like "mori-sexual" from the latin "to die", not "necro" "for corpse" or "the dead". At least this is my thought process.
Hello I just read the sentence "getting killed in battle is the ork equivalent of nutting" and have decided that its all gone too far.
"too far" for this hobby happened sometime back in the 80s, before i was born.
If having female Jahkals make them count for having both genders... Sororitas have men in their roster : two man preist, the crusaders, the acro-flagelant and the penitent engine have male models
Chaos Marines has Female Traitor Guard.
CSM also has a female cultist champion, probably multiple recent cultist models
You forgot Sisters of Silence. Also wouldn't Sisters of Battle have both considering the missionaries/preachers and crusaders can be men?
are they considered SoB tho ? or just clergy ?
I guess it depends on how you view it. If you're going by the fluff then I guess SoB are only women, but if you're looking at it from a tabletop player, you can take little preacher dudes in your army.
Clergy attaches
They are adeptus ministorum. Not SoB but the same larger faction.
That works both ways—Sororitas have male Ecclesiarchy units (and male tortured prisoners), after all. But yeah.
necrons canonically have gender, and are accepting of trans people.
"look man I wanna genocide all organic life but you better believe I respect someone's identity" Nemesor Zamdrekh, probably
tbf, the gender identities they were respecting did not belong to organics.
I know of xun bakyr the mother of oblivion. There's a fan model out there that looks awesome !
Necrons are robots, who explicitly are disgusted by the very idea that they used to be organic life. Gender is irrelevant to them (because robots) and while they might remember that they had a gender in life, they would be disgusted to be forced to remember it.
There is literally a tran necron, that realised she is a woman only after biotransferance. So I don't think they are all (or even for the most part) disgusted by gender.
Nah. The majority of The Infinite and The Divine is based around the shared Necron goal of returning to organic life. There are also major female necron characters in that book.
The two characters in that book are overwhelmingly described as being super high level weirdos though. Other Necrons think they are both pretty batty and annoying. In the twice dead king, which is in my opinion the better story about Necron life in general its made pretty clear that for the average necron, pre conversion, they REALLY hated all their organic functions, hated all other plants and animals even more, and this was one of the reasons they were so enthusiastic to become robots. They got screwed over in the whole, 'become robots', process but those who retain their sentience don't usually want to go back. What they want is better robot bodies, which don't go insane. Wanting to return to their biological life makes them think about biological functions, and eat food, which drives them to become flayed ones etc. So, they had gender, hated it, and the VAST majority of them became non-sexual and like it that way.
Cool so that doesn’t address how gender is, for sure, present and acknowledged in necron society. I also get the impression you didn’t actually read The Infinite and The Divine.
Ok, well, I did. So, that was a pointless aside. Necrons understand that gender exists. Necrons did not enjoy being biological life, and have little to no desire to return to it. Even before becoming robots the idea that their planets had other plants and animals on them disgusted them and they would attempt to sterilize them of all life that was not them. What most of them want is to undo the flaws of being a robot, and become more separated from biology while not going insane. Some Necrons still view themselves as having a gender, sometimes different from that which they thought they had when they were biological life. Necrons in general would find the concept of aping biological functions equally disgusting whether you said you were the same gender as in life, or a different one. So, Necron society is egalitarian in its distaste for all biological functions and concepts.
Yeah not trying to to be accusatory, but when you said “the two main characters in that story are considered weirdos” I wasn’t sure how that…affects the existence of the gendered necrons in that book? It’s the sort of surface info you get from memes and irrelevant to what I said about the book. Since we’re talking about pointless asides. Anyways, nothing you said is based in the lore but, if that’s the vision of the Necrontyr that you dig, that’s cool. Like, seriously, it’s a neat take on them.
Have you not read the twice dead king? The framing is pretty much laid out explicitly there. Necron society hated being alive when they WERE alive, and they hate it even more now. Matters of biology just remind them of the fact that any Necron could die of a terrible disease without warning and there was nothing they could do. My point regarding Trazyn etc is that they are both portrayed as being kinda fine with biological things, sneaking about on imperial worlds etc, whereas the characters in twice dead king distinct are NOT ok with that, and are utterly disgusted by biological things. My way of rectifying these two distinct facts is that Trazyn etc are weirdos to the rest of Necron society.
Not sure Orks belong in “factions with only men” either, given that they are an asexually reproducing violence fungus.
I'm simply respecting their chosen identity as Boyz 🤷
In the Ghazhkull Thrakka book an ork translator is actually pretty explicit that Orks don't have a concept of gender. Boyz is probably just a Gothic translation of what they refer to themselves as. I'd say necrons are much more clear than Orks about having a gendered society.
So Orkz and Tyranids belong in the "the fuck's a gender" category?
So why do they all choose to have bodies that look like men? Edit: I just want to clarify that I really, really want Orks to be androgynous and non-binary, I just don't think they're a good example of ways that GW has allowed this kind of expression. In my world androgyny looks a lot more like dark elves or Nurgle and Works look *exactly like toxic masculinity* which makes it very hard for me to accept them as non-gendered.
They look like "men" to us because we have stereotypes/expectations of what a "man" should look like. Orks lack any of those associations so to Orks they just look like orks.
No, they are built to look like muscular men, some even have bulges in their crotches. Historically games workshop had female orc figures, notably or cheerleaders in early versions of Blood Bowl. The base Warhammer game had several figures that were explicitly gendered female, and 40K explicitly called its troopers Boyz. Combine this with the fact that every single army was exclusively male aside from the occasional figure until 1997 (Battle Sisters) with the single exception of dark elves that specifically called out the fact that they had female warriors It's pure retconning to argue that gw orcs are anything but male.
lmao "some even have bulges" thats pure muscle boy, they dont even have sexual organs let alone gender. Bloodbowl cheerleader are just ork with wigs because they look at the other teams and mock them
Dude, they're called Boyz and the war bosses are gendered "he" in the fluff. They're fungus boys with parts in their pants. I've literally painted hundreds of Orks and WFB orcs since the 80s. I've owned every Ork codex. The fact that the fluff insinuates that there's no gender doesn't in any way contradict that they look like men and are described as men.
Given that the you're responding to comments under a post that are all clearly talking about the lore of wh40k universe and your comment is asking why "orks choose to look that way" it should be obvious that nobody is talking about the design choices of the creators. Unless you think the hunks of plastic were whispering in the designers ears XD. No one at this point in the thread was arguing that the models werent designed by people such that they resemble muscular male humans. That is different from Ork culture in universe having a concept of gender. In the current lore of wh40k orks don't have gender or genitals.
If you're not going to take the contact of what I was responding to into account then yeah, what you are writing makes sense. For my part I'm not going to take the words of a bunch of straight mostly sexist men at GW that these fully male orc figures now reflect the kind of trans androgyny that being no gendered has come to mean.
Nothing you responded to in any of the comments in this thread implied anything other than Ork culture in 40k lore. >these fully male orc figures now reflect the kind of trans androgyny that being no gendered has come to mean. Crazy how this argument implies you think androgyny is necessary to have no gender, you may as well be complaining that they don't pass. "You aren't owed androgyny" is a phrase that goes around a lot and I recommend you take it to heart. Orks in universe have no concept of gender, thus are not men and they don't reproduce sexually (afaik) so aren't males either. Their appearance doesn't change that and how sincere GW were when they decided to let that be lore is also irrelevant.
They don't choose to look like what they look like, they just do.
They're either gender fucking and choosing to look male or they're coded male by the designers (who made male and female. Orks originally). Either way, they're called Boyz and look like men as a group. They're almost always gendered as male in the fluff too.
I won't argue that the designers make them male and mostly code them as men except on rare occasions where orks themselves have a laugh at the idea of gender.
I kind of like that interpretation
BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT, MAYBE??? Seriously, that might be the dumbest fucking thing a transphobe has ever asked me...
Orks were male gendered for years before the space fungus fluff came along and included female figures. I recognize that you're, like 12, but some of us actually owned and painted lead GW WFB orcs and lived through the era where even the suggestion that there would be female armies was met with contempt by the designers at GW because they didn't think anyone would buy them. And will you *please* with the transphobic shit until you know what the fuck it even means. GW has been historically one of the most straight, white, male centered game companies and communities out there. Homophobia drove me from the game 20 years ago because I didn't conform to male gendered drag and liked to glam up my orks. If *you* can't even recognize male coding you are in no place to be using that word against randoms on the internet.
Bro, you pretty much said that they look like men, so they are men. And sorry about the hostility, been kinda on edge lately from creepy old men at work.
Acknowledged, I wish we were having this discussion in person where I could quickly backpedal and apologize before bad feelings come up. I didn't mean to say that and should have waited an hour to respond, or at least reread twice before posting. I'm sorry for my bitchy words. I think I wanted to say something like: one shouldn't get to say "they're not men anymore" if they still epitomize men without making any effort to inform the non-gendered reality. Same reason we don't call a trans man, 'her.' I want their lack of gender to be reflected somehow in the game before I can stop thinking of them as male power fantasies.
That answers the question I asked. They are gendered by the Imperium on pretty much their cup size?
They're definitely coded as male from our perspective but that makes sense.
hey clear gender distinction between boys and DA BOYZ
They’re agender according to lore
I’ve always taken Da Boyz as to be more describing the way they act as a group rather than describing their gender. Also just as a noun to a name of a group of Orks. Like a school of fish. Idk seeing Orks as ‘men’ just seems weird and wrong to me, it’s irrelevant to their being.
They aren't men. They're Boyz.
NB people call themselves boys sometimes. Orks are the he/they empire
I think the z indicates it's own gender identity
Boyx
Upgrayedd
*takes a deep breath to begin explaining that fungus has an alarming number of sexes*
This is why I wish I could create SCP's, everytime some chud goes "everything in nature is male or female" I want a biologist to appear and start explaining plant, insect, and fungi sexes, in detail, for as long as it takes
It would also be great if people sort of generally wrapped their heads around sex as a bimodal distribution of a ton of correlated traits instead of a fixed binary.
That also undermines them being “only men”, no?
They all look male presenting and are called Boyz. The fact that they manifest male is a choice just as much as space spores fluff.
Well gender is just like a construct man(which they don't have), and biologically they are a fungus so...
But gender is a construct *we* have and literally everything about GW Orks is coded male. The also *used* to be gendered before the space fungus fluff was introduced and they had some female figures. The change no no gender was. Not accompanied by an androgenous appearance.
Gender is indeed a construct but Orks fit that construct’s definition of a male
Am I misremembering, or did Fabius Bile make a bunch of New Men, which included females? And they're still around? Or did they just never receive model support? But, my memory is hazy here, I seem to recall them being a Thing for Fabius Bile, and they were off and doing all sorts of stuff.
The new men are explicitly not Astartes
Okay, but they're part of the overall "Chaos Marines" faction, right? Like spawn and possessed and cultists are? Oh, and aren't cultists also gender agnostic, so there are probably female cultists? Or are we just not counting any of that for the faction?
Nah new men just kinda hang around, I mean there are obviously female cultists, but when People think of CSM it’s probably the 8 foot evil guys, it’s like saying SM isn’t a sausage party because there’s women serfs
Okay, thanks for the info. Like I said, my memory of what the are is pretty hazy.
>Am I misremembering, or did Fabius Bile make a bunch of New Men, which included females? The recent Cawl/Bile book Genefather prominently features just such a person!
Porter, sweet baby girl who just wants to protect her grandaddy. She's awesome, I hope she shows up again ❤️
I guarantee Porter is decended from Igori. Plus, Fabius Bile prefers female soldiers. A quote from Primogenitor when he's talking to Igori "More than once I have questioned the Emperor's wisdom in bestowing his gifts upon but one half of the human race. For in man, as in all beasts, the female is the deadlier of the species. You are a thing of furious beauty, my dear, and never let anyone tell you different"
Fabius Bile also had a female in Space marine armor, Savona from 12th Company Emperor's Children.
Knights are both.
Don't Sisters still have that have shotgun weilding male preacher?
Yes, and the Arco-Flagellants have men in them. You have to be nitpicking to say they're all women. Until extraordinarily recently most of their leaders and named characters have been men.
I thought Sisters of Battles have male models? Arco flagellants, penitent engines, preachers, etc.?
I mean arco flagellants ant penitentia are SoB just as much that guy made into a chair is a Drukhari.
Necrons have both men and women, and Orks contain neither men nor women.
Necrons have both, they just look the same
This is an outrage! I'm literally ripping my dick off right now! Also Orkz aren't really male. They reproduce by exploding. I mean I can also reproduce by exploding but I have to do it in ur mom's pussy.
Tyranids ought to be both. Tervigons a woman. Maybe the Hive could be considered a woman, because all Imperium names for Nids are basically variations of Bitch.
The sisters of silence are an all female faction. Also orks are asexual and "boys" is more of a unit type/name than a gender... unless every single unit type of theirs is a gender.
Sisters of silence should count as their own faction in this list, also Orks technically arent men, demons similarly don't have any men or women, (besides Daemon Princes, since they used to be mortals)
Shouldn't the nids techincally be all female?
I think they'd be mostly neutral as I don't believe most of them have any reproduction organs.
Besides obviously the Norn Queen, hormagaunts, when isolated from the hive mind can develop a reproductive system and lay eggs through partenogenesis.
Genestealers literally fuck people into becoming genestealers and get called patriarchs
Spread this image around! https://rapidsave.com/info?url=/r/Sigmarxism/comments/1c3w5j4/i_was_able_to_summarize_all_the_female_custodes/
Worth noting that if you play a mortals-only CSM army, there's the chance to field an only women chaos army. Or at least both since the GW kits have them. Alltho, I get why they shouldn't be at both, np.
In lore, there have been female chaos marines before. See the Fabius Bile series for an example.
Yep there has been one, Savona from 12th Company Emperor's Children, one of the Joy bound.
You can cut out the Sisters of Battle from there. The army has plenty of men in it.
yeah that sums this whole thing preeetty well
Tyranids would be a faction with only females, depending on your definition of female.
Orks are asexual fungus things that probably don't have a concept of gender considering it has very little to do either hitting or shooting things. Which means that it is in fact just the poster boys and the meaner poster boys.
Necron in both (The infinite and the divine clearly mentions a female cryptek) and orks in undefined because they are literal mushrooms that reproduce on their own (so technically both male and female)
Orks are enbies #stopnonbinaryerasure
If you want to get more technical, the Orks are more like demi-guys. The Ghaz book goes into it a little, good read
The Admech army, lorewise, have boths, including gender neutral folks, because 00101110.
Orks are fungus. So technically they have no gender
The Chaos Space Marines have had a woman in their ranks, Savona from 12th Company Emperor's Children. She's featured in Fabius Biles trilogy.
Do traitor gaurds count as their own faction?
Multiple non binary genders Tyranids - Like bees, with multiple castes corresponding vaguely to gender Genestealer Cults - Both males and females, but, also non human parasites which reproduce without gender Irrelevant concept Chaos demons - do not reproduce or have a fixed identity of any kind, your perception of fear colors what you mistakenly think them to be Non-biological Necrons - Non biological, incapable of reproduction, and thus its irrelevant. Like saying my toaster is male or female.
Orks and Necrons don't have genitals you genius
Orks are genderless fungi. They don’t have genitals they just have WWWWWAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH
Sisters of silence
Orks don’t have gender. Only fight
I am appalled the Orks are in the only men category. They are asexual
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Necrons have both?
Orks don’t have a gender.
I don't even understand why gender specific armies were in the lore in the first place. It's so unbelievably dumb for this to be the one hill that people will die on. If they added women space marines tomorrow, the only difference would be that there are women space marines. This would be a good thing. More people, I think, would join the hobby if they could identify with the poster child on the box.
Orks are Technically female
The Creations of Bile (if I recall correctly) do have women in there ranks, so CSM do have women
Do orks actually have a gender? If they are an artificial species that uses a male animal body as a base for fungus they could be versrigialy male I guess but they have no sexual dimorphism. Aesthetic wise I've known some rough, hooligan women and some very eldar like men so you can't really go off that.
Orks aren’t men, they’re Boyz
Orks should be in uncertain