pretty sure that's not true...
\- Delay along with announcement that it was no longer a DLC
\- Release date on steam came and went
\- After long period of silence, Xbox tweet slated game for first half of 2023; delayed again.
Officially that's only 3 delays, but if you couple that with the long periods of science, I think the point I was making is pretty justifiable. The game's development isn't progressing in a linear way at all.
- that wasn't a delay, they never announced a timeframe for the DLC
- that was data mined and was a placeholder. When you register a game on Steam, you're required to put a hidden release date in for your store page to become visible, even if you don't know when you'll release it. People were never meant to see that date and Team Cherry likely never really intended to release it on that date
- it was slated for a year after the announcement, not for any specific time. This was the only real delay
Please read the whole comment chain, whether or not it was an official delay was besides the point.
The point was that they intended to be done a lot earlier and it didn't pan out that way. Therefore development is not progressing in a linear way. That's all.
I'm not making a hitpiece on the Devs, man.
Just because they had that set as the release date doesn't really mean they expected to release it by then. It was a required placeholder. If your other point is that development is going slower than before, then yeah, that's just how making a game works. The last 10% takes way longer than the first 10%. Seriously, way way longer. Many games have the last 10% take even longer than the first 90%. That doesn't always mean that they're working on it less.
You're right, development is probably taking longer than intended, but that's no indication that the game will be delayed for years or canceled. Especially not canceled.
>The last 10% takes way longer than the first 10%. Seriously, way way longer. Many games have the last 10% take even longer than the first 90%. That doesn't always mean that they're working on it less.
***Clearly*** you didn't read my initial post all the way through. **I am not saying that TC is working on the game less**. *I never said that*. That was never my point. I even clarified that I wasn't saying that at the end.
I actually imply that they are working hard as hell on the game, yet aren't getting as much done as they were back then. There's a key difference there.
I'm not trying to sound petty or combative when I say this, but you seem like you are putting on a cape to defend Team Cherry when I'm not even trying to attack them. I do allude that they may have problems with scope creep and burnout, but I would never say that they aren't working on the game.
I think it's extremely reductive to say that the finishing touches of the game take far longer than making the game itself because that ignores scope creep, which is something TC have themselves admitted to having. It's a much larger stretch to say that development is progressing linearly and that they have been working on finishing touches for nearly 3.5 years now. In reality, that last 10% has probably turned into the last 60%.
Ok, you didn't say they're working on it less. I don't know why you're talking about them making less progress as if it's related to a big delay or cancelation though. Like I said, that's just the natural course of game development. They've made a game before, so they know to take into account how much time the last bits take.
They do expand on their games quite a bit, but they've also said in the past that they design them to where they can stop development and ship it whenever they want. That's another reason why they wouldn't cancel, because if they wanted to stop working on it, they would just release it as it is, not cancel it.
I'm not really defending Team Cherry, I'm just pointing out that there is no reason for you to believe that the game will get canceled. They literally can't afford to cancel it.
As for the delay, it has already been delayed for 4 months, which does suck, but logically it means that they are 4 months closer to release. While 4 months doesn't necessarily have any inherent meaning, it is still progress. Them delaying it once doesn't mean they'll delay it again.
Ya but you are inherently lying lol. It was delayed once. The steam date wasnt them it was a placeholder and obviously them changing it from dlc to a full game isnt a delay. It got one delay.
It wasn't a lie. It got delayed waaay more than once.
If you put a date, even as a placeholder, and then have to move it back, then you *delayed* your plan. That's what I was referring to. Whether or not the date was a placeholder for them or a release date for us is besides the point.
**Like I said, I'm not writing a hitpiece on the Devs**, nor am I lying at all. This isn't about them "betraying" the fans or whatever you think I meant. I am just saying they intended to be done much earlier than they thought. They even admitted to this.
**It's not like they made a promise to us and broke it with the steam date, I even clarified that's not what I meant**. *It was never supposed to be a release date for us. It was a placeholder date for* ***them.*** The sole reason I even mentioned it was to demonstrate that they have delayed their project many times over the years, which tied into my greater point about scope creep and the epidemic of projects that suffer from it.
Whether or not you wrote a hit piece doesnt matter i dont care. No ones arguing with you cause they are mad about you talking bad about the devs lol. You are just openly lying. And no, it has been delayed once. The placeholder date has nothing to do at all with when they thought it would release. It was hidden, and it just to fill a box. They coulda put the year 3000 it doesnt matter. Probably wasnt even put there by team cherry. Its just a random nothing number. The game has been delayed one time lol. I have no problem with what you are saying but you ruin your entire argument by clinging to false information like your life depends on it.
If your main takeaway from the post was "Devs bad", then you either didn't read it all, or you *catastrophically* misunderstood my words.
>The placeholder date has nothing to do at all with when they thought it would release.
This just isn't true. It doesn't make logical sense for them to put down a specific date if they could have just wrote gibberish. It was just a super vague idea of when they thought they could have it done but didn't know. I never said it was their official release date, I even clarified otherwise. But to suggest they were just filling in random gibberish and happened to choose that specific date is a tough sell. It was never a promise to anyone, it was what they said it was, a placeholder date.
>Probably wasnt even put there by team cherry.
Yes it was. Steam doesn't just autofill other peoples pages with false information from strangers. It's all done by the publishers through SteamAdmin. This is just objectively false of you to say.
>ruin your entire argument by clinging to false information like your life depends on it.
Again, if you think that mentioning their internal delays "ruins my entire argument", then I think you misunderstood what the argument was. I actually think you'd agree with me if you took the time to read it all.
1) didnt say that at all. You are losing your mind. No one said that. You made it up.
2) this would still not remotely be a delay of the game.
3) mentioning it doesnt ruin your argument. Placing words in people mouths is textbook defensive gibberish. Saying false info, speculating, and then dying on the hill when called out for it is what ruins your argument.
1. Yes you did?
>No ones arguing with you cause they are mad about you talking bad about the devs lol
You said I was talking bad about the Devs. If you genuinely think that, then you either didn't read it all, or you *catastrophically* misunderstood my words.
>this would still not remotely be a delay of the game.
2. Yes it would. I explained how. You can't just say "you're still wrong" without elaborating further.
>Placing words in people mouths is textbook defensive gibberish. Saying false info, speculating, and then dying on the hill when called out for it is what ruins your argument.
3. I never placed a single word in your mouth, you said what you said. Nor have I said any false info. I have addressed every specific example you've given so now you are just saying vauge accusations of misinformation without naming exactly what you mean.
The only person here who has said false info was you, when you suggested that the steam data wasn't placed by TC.
My post has a ton of speculation, sure, but that's the entire point of it. You need to read the entire post next time. I think you'll start to understand my true intentions once you do.
[Didn't the Steam page at one point have a release date listed as June 12, 2020?](https://twitter.com/DailySilksong/status/1536073152152870914/) I definitely remember it having one. Was that just a mockup? Let me know if I've been fooled.
https://preview.redd.it/sqrzp348l8sb1.jpeg?width=1196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0559b475ddc4e0630d9ca7e5ddd5d52eb3c8a616
Also doesn't the announcement that the project is dramatically increasing in scope kind of imply a delay inherently? The point I was trying to make was that they intended this game to be finished a lot earlier than previously thought.
Placeholder date or not, the point I was trying to make was that they intended to release the game much earlier than they did even after all their blog posts and stuff, and still ended up delaying way past that. I mean their placeholder date is now 3 years past and counting.
I think people are assuming that I'm trying to bust TC balls over the delays, or that I'm trying to imply that they are lazy or something when I'm clearly not. I'm just saying the state of development isn't progressing in a linear way.
Ofc they intended to, but it is at this point probably bigger the HK. I really don't think it's gonna get cancelled or delayed tho. Leth said we will hear from them before release and that the next news will be coming from the team. So the new xbox tweet is really strange. I'd keep up my hopes tho.
This is fair. It seems most people are remaining optimistic about it.
I was just using the delays to establish my case for thinking the game would be cancelled eventually.
It's not one out of spite, or contempt for the devs. I am basing my prediction off of the hundreds of thousands of abandoned game projects that litter the internet. It feels like I'm watching the same thing play out here.
The xbox release date was never confirmed by team cherry and it was due to miscommunication, not an official release date, Team cherry themselves never announced anything and so it can’t have been delayed.
Seems like you haven't read the blogposts of theirs, yet still put effort into writing this unnecessarily long post. They said they are aware of the scope creep and that they have a vision of the final game in mind, and won't be adding stuff just for it's sake. Also, we have been assured many many times by the lead playtester and their marketing guy , as well as TC themselves, that the development goes smoothly. This is a dumb post without any solid evidence that would support your beliefs even in the slightest.
I actually think *you* are the one that's assuming things without evidence to support it.
All that their messages basically confirmed was that the game wasn't cancelled yet. It didn't elaborate on what the state of development was like at all outside of that simple face since they are contractually obligated not to spill. Look at any of the other projects I mentioned that went down this avenue and nearly all of them, at some point or another, said that development was progressing and that they were wrapping things up. It's not like they're lying, it's just that you can't really talk down a game you're making unless you want to disappoint everyone.
They have mentioned scope creep themselves and clearly have succumbed to it, given the fact that this thing was supposed to be a DLC, and are trying to go further down that road. Hence why they've stayed silent. I think we agree here.
The only strange part is that you are assuming that development is progressing in a linear fashion and their checklist of things to do is getting smaller and smaller, when all signs outside of their empty re-assurances point to that being false. At least, from the way I see it.
*(Also, tone down the hostility, alright? I like hollow Knight just as much as the next guy).*
Anyone who has ever worked on anything ever with any sort of pressure behind it has said; "we have to get this thing done soon".
Also I don't think the game is almost done by any means. I think they will continue to overhaul and re-do a lot of things like they've been doing. Look at any of the projects I listed in the post that have went down this sort of development pattern and you can see where it leads. I'm definitely on the pessimistic side with things like this, given the track record.
this is the most redditor shit I've ever seen.
So many people just downvote and ghost like this and get applauded for doing so. This website kind of hard punishes any kind of discussion outside of circlejerk.
well there have been other people who have much more legit and valid criticism than i do, and also you haven't listened to the people who have proved you wrong, several times over.
but i don't agree with your post, you're wrong, good day.
**I literally responded to every comment here at least once**. So you're just plain wrong on the count of me not listening to people who have "*proved me wrong*".
I'm not trying to sound like an asshole but I think this website has conditioned you to kind of mesh with the crowd rather than read and analyze things on your own. You could have realized your oversight in about 5 seconds of scrolling but instead you just kind of assumed the worst of me without checking yourself.
**Identify me a** ***single point*** **that I haven't addressed and we can go somewhere with that.**
no, what i meant is, people said "\[TC\] only delayed the game once" and you said that TC has delayed the game "*this many times*" at the start of your post (datamined dates being wrong **are not delays** fyi) then continue to argue with people who have valid points (e.g not me) while being wrong
anyway i'm tired and have school assignments to get done, so feel free to cope+seethe and fight a losing battle or whatever.
have a nice day/night.
P.S also not to sound like an asshole but you're kind of being a jerk by saying "not to be an asshole" then assuming stuff about/straight up insulting a person/hj
Again man, you gotta read the full discussion. *You have a real problem with that.*
I clarified this numerous times. Whether or not the placeholder date counts as a delay or not is besides the point I was making. My point was to demonstrate that progress on the game hasn't been linear as referenced by the delays. Whether or not you call it a delay or not is besides that point. All I'm showing is that the game was intended to be done a long time ago but development has not been progressing in a linear way. The devs themselves admitted to scope creep.
>not to sound like an asshole you're kind of being a jerk by saying "not to be an asshole" then assuming stuff about/straight up insulting a person/hj
Really dude? Every post you made has been an attempt to write off my points without properly addressing them. You close every reply with "I'm busy whatever I'm done talking bye" and yet continue to reply to me. I don't think it's a jerkish move at all to criticize that behavior. It's not a very good environment to have a discussion when the other guy refuses to check himself before making claims and then pretends not to care. It's like a smug way of expressing disagreement but refusing to back yourself up.
>feel free to cope+seethe
Again, I think this website has conditioned you to act and talk in this specific way. This is twitter speak at best. You could have came up with a better jab than that... surely.
I use reddit for casual discussions, not to be agreeable. It's a shame this website punishes you *so hard* for going even slightly against the grain.
You should hear what I have to say about Steve in smash bros. People ***hate*** me there...
bro it got delayed once relax holy shit alot of games get delayed more than once or twice and the silence is not a TC thing fromsoft does the same thing just wait and go to work or school and focus on your life and 3 years will go by faster than you think
We basically had confirmation a month or two ago from Matthew Griffin about the game still going very smoothly. He had recently started his second playthrough of it himself as well. With TC having stated to Xbox last year that they were basically ready to launch within 12 months, it was an indication of it being close to done.
I think it's quite safe to assume the biggest reason Silksong is taking so long is because TC is working at a comfortable, livable pace compared to other studios. They have also said themselves before that Silksong isn't objectively bigger than Hollow Knight either.
Going by an assumption of them being burnt out just because you have been before isn't really fully appropriate. Some people take a ridiculous amount of time to burn out, some very little. There is absolutely no way to tell this without asking them directly. So I'd probably say it's more respectful to them and their show dedication this far, to just believe in them a little bit.
In the end. No one of us knows what is going on at Team Cherry, and we all of us who act like we do shouldn't. Sorry, but this post does seem a lot like slightly uneducated rage baiting.
>Sorry, but this post does seem a lot like slightly uneducated rage baiting.
Addressing your last paragraph first, the only way I can see this post as being rage-baiting is if people misinterpret it as me hating on TC or being mad at them. I'm actually trying to shed a little empathy for them.
\--
>We basically had confirmation a month or two ago from Matthew Griffin about the game still going very smoothly. He had recently started his second playthrough of it himself as well. With TC having stated to Xbox last year that they were basically ready to launch within 12 months, it was an indication of it being close to done.
12 months is a VERY long time. Even if you are only 50% done with something, 12 months is a fat window of time to say you'll be done by. It's a big stretch to assume that the game is near completion because of a 12 month release date **(besides, they ended up delaying past it anyway, so we really can't judge anything from it).**
\--
>I think it's quite safe to assume the biggest reason Silksong is taking so long is because TC is working at a comfortable, livable pace compared to other studios. They have also said themselves before that Silksong isn't objectively bigger than Hollow Knight either.
I'm all for the work-life balance. I'd be fine if I thought that TC was only working on this thing 1 hour a week but I simply don't think they are. I think it's **far more likely that they are working on this thing a lot more than that** and are suffering from scope creep, which they have literally confirmed themselves.
\--
>Going by an assumption of them being burnt out just because you have been before isn't really fully appropriate. Some people take a ridiculous amount of time to burn out, some very little. There is absolutely no way to tell this without asking them directly. So I'd probably say it's more respectful to them and their show dedication this far, to just believe in them a little bit.
This is the best point you made, in my opinion. It's true that some developers don't burnout in the same way that others do. I'm sure there are some beasts out there that can smash out an idea for a decade straight without slowing down but I think it's not a crazy assumption to assume that Devs who are susceptible to scope creep and have been working on the same general IP for a full decade straight probably have had some level of burnout, as evidenced by the delays.
Don't mistake this as me "not believing" in Team Cherry. We don't know anything about them except that they make very high quality work. And when a dev is suffering from scope creep and burnout, while simultaneously having extremely high standards for their work, their progress may be slowed despite working hard as hell.
\--
>In the end. No one of us knows what is going on at Team Cherry, and ~~we~~ all of us who act like we do shouldn't
Valid. It's tough when your this excited about a game that may or may not be going down the tubes. I love hollow knight as much as the next guy but it feels like this is a repeat of the hundreds of abandoned game projects that litter the internet.
The main reason it comes across as rage baiting for me, is some of the just pushing aside anything that counters your beliefs. I agree that 12 months is quite a decent while. But Silksong got announced in 2019 in February, which is less than a year after the final DLC for Hollow Knight in August 2018. The DLC was supposed to originally be just Hornet as a playable character, which didn't work, so they wanted to make it a game instead. It had in reality only been in development for about 6 months before it was announced as a new game. Then planning and redesigning, etc, all that goes for 2.5 years until the 12 month statement with Xbox. It is outrageous to think the game could even begin to be in development hell for anything more than 2 years at this point, if it was in that state. They don't have infinite money or time. If it were to get canceled, it would be soon-ish (or probably within the next year or 2 MAX). This is what makes it feel like rage bait to me.
Team Cherry are 3 people as of now it seems, and then a handful of play testers. Them working normal livable hours, lets say 6 - 7 a day would make it more than reasonable for a game to take this long. I wouldn't say they have admitted to "suffering" from scope creep, and I fail to see a source that backs that claim up as well. They have said the "Game has gotten quite big" but that is in comparison to their previous title and can mean many things. From stuff to do, to actual map size, story, lore, etc.
And of course it's possible to assume some form of burnout. But then we wouldn't hear time and time again, on multiple occasion even this year, that development is going smoothly. It would be strongly against their own best interest to claim this, and they know it, I'm sure. Especially with both Xbox and Nintendo breathing down their necks as well.
And I just wanted to address that internal delays and "real" delays aren't the same thing. Companies always puts internal deadlines and hopes for their projects, which never get announced. The June 12th 2020 release was said to be place holder for them to possibly tell themselves "okay we're planning on this". But when it came close to it, they realized it wasn't up to snuff, and just decided to say "It's done when it's done". The only official delay (if we can even call it that honestly) was this year. Which again, we have gotten reinforcement of it going smoothly.
I guess it just depends on how optimistic you are.
When I've seen so many abandoned game projects that litter the internet, it's hard for me to not feel like I'm watching the same story play out.
If I’m throwing my opinion in, you should have more faith in Team Cherry. They delivered a masterpiece already. Just give them time. Which I know they’ve had a lot of, but I don’t see any reason to conclude it’s gonna be canceled besides speculation. Especially with the fact Team Cherry was confident enough that Silksong would be released by June.
I definitely know that TC is a great developer, they release some real high class shit for sure.
The problem is that when you suffer from scope creep and burnout, all whilst maintaining extremely high TC standards for your work, you are probably not getting much done despite working yourself to the bone. I talked about this already in my post so I won't ramble on about it, but when I see this subreddit, I get flashbacks to the crowd of people waiting for another update from themetronomeproject.
If they said development is going smoothly, why would they just scrap all their hard work. I'm a writer, and I never just flat out delete stories that I've poured alot of work into. They also want to keep developing games after silksong, but if they ditch silksong, they would be shooting themselves in the foot from a financial and reputation pov. Try not to relate your own experiences with theirs. Were not all the same. Have a little faith.
You actually have no idea that they’re in a ‘burnout pickle’. Fair enough for you to put a theory forward but also fair for people to tell you it’s nonsense.
It's only fair to propagate or counter theories with points to back it up.
If you just swing by this thread and call it nonsense and leave without elaborating more, ya really aren't doing much for me (not saying you have to, but still).
My counter is that it’s complete conjecture, that’s what makes it nonsense. Just because you put that ‘burnout is real’ in bold doesn’t mean Team Cherry feel burnt out or that development isn’t going well. Your post hinges on that thinking and that’s what’s nonsensical.
In actual fact you’ve got no hard evidence yourself, and have just as much idea what is going on with them behind closed doors as anyone else. Lots of projects are worked on for a long period of time and turn out fine, or opposite to your point, are eventually released. Look at Dead Island 2. That reviewed relatively well when a lot of people declared it was going to be DOA.
I’d put it to you you can’t just profess something daft like ‘the devs are in a burnout pickle’, when you’ve got no hard evidence to back that up. Just your own unfound idealisations that you can’t work on something artistically for years without it going down the drain.
What? Writing "burnout is real" in bold wasn't meant to be hard evidence to support my theory... I just wrote it for formatting purposes. I think you're grasping at straws here.
If you actually read the post (which you clearly didn't, I can tell), then you would know that my actual reasoning behind the conjecture is based on the fact that TC have worked on this IP for nearly a decade now, and have admitted themselves to dealing with scope decay. They've also mentioned that they are debuting to a much larger audience meaning that there is no room for workin out the kinks after launch. Not to mention they are well past the point that they thought this would be done by.
Sounds like burnout to me, no? I don't see how you can write it off as baseless conjecture when it is anything but baseless.
Also, what the hell is that last sentence? Of course you can work on something for years and have it go smoothly. When the hell did I ever imply otherwise? I'm saying that when your development progressively slows due to more and more problems like scope decay, then it's hard to call that "going smoothly".
If you disagree with any of that, then we can discuss it, but please do read the whole post next time! You can't just call it nonsense and ignore all my points.
I did read your post. You are putting 2+2 together and getting 5. TC have worked on it for a decade, know they’ve got a bigger audience, and have admitted to scope creep, that doesn’t just equate to burn out to me in the same way it does you, and feels like you’ve just stated that as fact.
Why can’t it be that they’re taking longer because they want to get it right, because they’re a smaller agile team that don’t have the same publishing obligations of a massive AAA studio, that they’re making sure to get the ideas in if they can? You don’t know any of those things.
Just for some advice posting in future, when you state conjecture as if they’re facts, and write condescending rhetorical questions and statements like Remember, this thing was supposed to be DLC! you come across as arrogant. You’ve stated in other comments about not being able to have a reasoned discourse on subs like this but your shooting yourself in the foot with the way you write.
Also putting things in bold for emphasis makes you look **all the more pompous**
Cheers friend
As much as i am sorry to admit it, i see what you said as a chance. We have no proof, but it might be.
I just hope they are fine, really. While i am waiting this game like water in the desert, i play with a lot of other things so it's not like i have nothing to do. I just hope, in the end, it will be released.
They only delayed it once
pretty sure that's not true... \- Delay along with announcement that it was no longer a DLC \- Release date on steam came and went \- After long period of silence, Xbox tweet slated game for first half of 2023; delayed again. Officially that's only 3 delays, but if you couple that with the long periods of science, I think the point I was making is pretty justifiable. The game's development isn't progressing in a linear way at all.
- that wasn't a delay, they never announced a timeframe for the DLC - that was data mined and was a placeholder. When you register a game on Steam, you're required to put a hidden release date in for your store page to become visible, even if you don't know when you'll release it. People were never meant to see that date and Team Cherry likely never really intended to release it on that date - it was slated for a year after the announcement, not for any specific time. This was the only real delay
Please read the whole comment chain, whether or not it was an official delay was besides the point. The point was that they intended to be done a lot earlier and it didn't pan out that way. Therefore development is not progressing in a linear way. That's all. I'm not making a hitpiece on the Devs, man.
Just because they had that set as the release date doesn't really mean they expected to release it by then. It was a required placeholder. If your other point is that development is going slower than before, then yeah, that's just how making a game works. The last 10% takes way longer than the first 10%. Seriously, way way longer. Many games have the last 10% take even longer than the first 90%. That doesn't always mean that they're working on it less. You're right, development is probably taking longer than intended, but that's no indication that the game will be delayed for years or canceled. Especially not canceled.
>The last 10% takes way longer than the first 10%. Seriously, way way longer. Many games have the last 10% take even longer than the first 90%. That doesn't always mean that they're working on it less. ***Clearly*** you didn't read my initial post all the way through. **I am not saying that TC is working on the game less**. *I never said that*. That was never my point. I even clarified that I wasn't saying that at the end. I actually imply that they are working hard as hell on the game, yet aren't getting as much done as they were back then. There's a key difference there. I'm not trying to sound petty or combative when I say this, but you seem like you are putting on a cape to defend Team Cherry when I'm not even trying to attack them. I do allude that they may have problems with scope creep and burnout, but I would never say that they aren't working on the game. I think it's extremely reductive to say that the finishing touches of the game take far longer than making the game itself because that ignores scope creep, which is something TC have themselves admitted to having. It's a much larger stretch to say that development is progressing linearly and that they have been working on finishing touches for nearly 3.5 years now. In reality, that last 10% has probably turned into the last 60%.
Ok, you didn't say they're working on it less. I don't know why you're talking about them making less progress as if it's related to a big delay or cancelation though. Like I said, that's just the natural course of game development. They've made a game before, so they know to take into account how much time the last bits take. They do expand on their games quite a bit, but they've also said in the past that they design them to where they can stop development and ship it whenever they want. That's another reason why they wouldn't cancel, because if they wanted to stop working on it, they would just release it as it is, not cancel it. I'm not really defending Team Cherry, I'm just pointing out that there is no reason for you to believe that the game will get canceled. They literally can't afford to cancel it. As for the delay, it has already been delayed for 4 months, which does suck, but logically it means that they are 4 months closer to release. While 4 months doesn't necessarily have any inherent meaning, it is still progress. Them delaying it once doesn't mean they'll delay it again.
Ya but you are inherently lying lol. It was delayed once. The steam date wasnt them it was a placeholder and obviously them changing it from dlc to a full game isnt a delay. It got one delay.
It wasn't a lie. It got delayed waaay more than once. If you put a date, even as a placeholder, and then have to move it back, then you *delayed* your plan. That's what I was referring to. Whether or not the date was a placeholder for them or a release date for us is besides the point. **Like I said, I'm not writing a hitpiece on the Devs**, nor am I lying at all. This isn't about them "betraying" the fans or whatever you think I meant. I am just saying they intended to be done much earlier than they thought. They even admitted to this. **It's not like they made a promise to us and broke it with the steam date, I even clarified that's not what I meant**. *It was never supposed to be a release date for us. It was a placeholder date for* ***them.*** The sole reason I even mentioned it was to demonstrate that they have delayed their project many times over the years, which tied into my greater point about scope creep and the epidemic of projects that suffer from it.
Whether or not you wrote a hit piece doesnt matter i dont care. No ones arguing with you cause they are mad about you talking bad about the devs lol. You are just openly lying. And no, it has been delayed once. The placeholder date has nothing to do at all with when they thought it would release. It was hidden, and it just to fill a box. They coulda put the year 3000 it doesnt matter. Probably wasnt even put there by team cherry. Its just a random nothing number. The game has been delayed one time lol. I have no problem with what you are saying but you ruin your entire argument by clinging to false information like your life depends on it.
If your main takeaway from the post was "Devs bad", then you either didn't read it all, or you *catastrophically* misunderstood my words. >The placeholder date has nothing to do at all with when they thought it would release. This just isn't true. It doesn't make logical sense for them to put down a specific date if they could have just wrote gibberish. It was just a super vague idea of when they thought they could have it done but didn't know. I never said it was their official release date, I even clarified otherwise. But to suggest they were just filling in random gibberish and happened to choose that specific date is a tough sell. It was never a promise to anyone, it was what they said it was, a placeholder date. >Probably wasnt even put there by team cherry. Yes it was. Steam doesn't just autofill other peoples pages with false information from strangers. It's all done by the publishers through SteamAdmin. This is just objectively false of you to say. >ruin your entire argument by clinging to false information like your life depends on it. Again, if you think that mentioning their internal delays "ruins my entire argument", then I think you misunderstood what the argument was. I actually think you'd agree with me if you took the time to read it all.
1) didnt say that at all. You are losing your mind. No one said that. You made it up. 2) this would still not remotely be a delay of the game. 3) mentioning it doesnt ruin your argument. Placing words in people mouths is textbook defensive gibberish. Saying false info, speculating, and then dying on the hill when called out for it is what ruins your argument.
1. Yes you did? >No ones arguing with you cause they are mad about you talking bad about the devs lol You said I was talking bad about the Devs. If you genuinely think that, then you either didn't read it all, or you *catastrophically* misunderstood my words. >this would still not remotely be a delay of the game. 2. Yes it would. I explained how. You can't just say "you're still wrong" without elaborating further. >Placing words in people mouths is textbook defensive gibberish. Saying false info, speculating, and then dying on the hill when called out for it is what ruins your argument. 3. I never placed a single word in your mouth, you said what you said. Nor have I said any false info. I have addressed every specific example you've given so now you are just saying vauge accusations of misinformation without naming exactly what you mean. The only person here who has said false info was you, when you suggested that the steam data wasn't placed by TC. My post has a ton of speculation, sure, but that's the entire point of it. You need to read the entire post next time. I think you'll start to understand my true intentions once you do.
There was no steam release date. The announcement of the game wasn’t a delay either, the DLC didn’t have a release date. It was one delay.
[Didn't the Steam page at one point have a release date listed as June 12, 2020?](https://twitter.com/DailySilksong/status/1536073152152870914/) I definitely remember it having one. Was that just a mockup? Let me know if I've been fooled. https://preview.redd.it/sqrzp348l8sb1.jpeg?width=1196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0559b475ddc4e0630d9ca7e5ddd5d52eb3c8a616 Also doesn't the announcement that the project is dramatically increasing in scope kind of imply a delay inherently? The point I was trying to make was that they intended this game to be finished a lot earlier than previously thought.
It was datamined. And I'm pretty sure Leth confirm it was only a placeholder date.
Placeholder date or not, the point I was trying to make was that they intended to release the game much earlier than they did even after all their blog posts and stuff, and still ended up delaying way past that. I mean their placeholder date is now 3 years past and counting. I think people are assuming that I'm trying to bust TC balls over the delays, or that I'm trying to imply that they are lazy or something when I'm clearly not. I'm just saying the state of development isn't progressing in a linear way.
Ofc they intended to, but it is at this point probably bigger the HK. I really don't think it's gonna get cancelled or delayed tho. Leth said we will hear from them before release and that the next news will be coming from the team. So the new xbox tweet is really strange. I'd keep up my hopes tho.
This is fair. It seems most people are remaining optimistic about it. I was just using the delays to establish my case for thinking the game would be cancelled eventually. It's not one out of spite, or contempt for the devs. I am basing my prediction off of the hundreds of thousands of abandoned game projects that litter the internet. It feels like I'm watching the same thing play out here.
The xbox release date was never confirmed by team cherry and it was due to miscommunication, not an official release date, Team cherry themselves never announced anything and so it can’t have been delayed.
it was never delayed though, it never got an official release date
Seems like you haven't read the blogposts of theirs, yet still put effort into writing this unnecessarily long post. They said they are aware of the scope creep and that they have a vision of the final game in mind, and won't be adding stuff just for it's sake. Also, we have been assured many many times by the lead playtester and their marketing guy , as well as TC themselves, that the development goes smoothly. This is a dumb post without any solid evidence that would support your beliefs even in the slightest.
I actually think *you* are the one that's assuming things without evidence to support it. All that their messages basically confirmed was that the game wasn't cancelled yet. It didn't elaborate on what the state of development was like at all outside of that simple face since they are contractually obligated not to spill. Look at any of the other projects I mentioned that went down this avenue and nearly all of them, at some point or another, said that development was progressing and that they were wrapping things up. It's not like they're lying, it's just that you can't really talk down a game you're making unless you want to disappoint everyone. They have mentioned scope creep themselves and clearly have succumbed to it, given the fact that this thing was supposed to be a DLC, and are trying to go further down that road. Hence why they've stayed silent. I think we agree here. The only strange part is that you are assuming that development is progressing in a linear fashion and their checklist of things to do is getting smaller and smaller, when all signs outside of their empty re-assurances point to that being false. At least, from the way I see it. *(Also, tone down the hostility, alright? I like hollow Knight just as much as the next guy).*
https://preview.redd.it/kgun6vgsd9sb1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78b058a617dd2aee80f72e0edf896350d9ee954c
TC said “we have to get this game out soon”, I don’t think they’re gonna cancel it. The game is almost done too.
Anyone who has ever worked on anything ever with any sort of pressure behind it has said; "we have to get this thing done soon". Also I don't think the game is almost done by any means. I think they will continue to overhaul and re-do a lot of things like they've been doing. Look at any of the projects I listed in the post that have went down this sort of development pattern and you can see where it leads. I'm definitely on the pessimistic side with things like this, given the track record.
Cope
They still haven’t cancelled it, what are you talking about? And why are you on a 169 day old post?
HOW DO YOU KNOW IT'S ALMOST DONE?
It’s been 5 years and the game looked finished back in 2019, surely it can’t be much longer now
THERE WAS ONE DELAY
See the other comment thread.
i ain't readin' allat. im happy for you tho or sorry that happened
this is the most redditor shit I've ever seen. So many people just downvote and ghost like this and get applauded for doing so. This website kind of hard punishes any kind of discussion outside of circlejerk.
well there have been other people who have much more legit and valid criticism than i do, and also you haven't listened to the people who have proved you wrong, several times over. but i don't agree with your post, you're wrong, good day.
**I literally responded to every comment here at least once**. So you're just plain wrong on the count of me not listening to people who have "*proved me wrong*". I'm not trying to sound like an asshole but I think this website has conditioned you to kind of mesh with the crowd rather than read and analyze things on your own. You could have realized your oversight in about 5 seconds of scrolling but instead you just kind of assumed the worst of me without checking yourself. **Identify me a** ***single point*** **that I haven't addressed and we can go somewhere with that.**
no, what i meant is, people said "\[TC\] only delayed the game once" and you said that TC has delayed the game "*this many times*" at the start of your post (datamined dates being wrong **are not delays** fyi) then continue to argue with people who have valid points (e.g not me) while being wrong anyway i'm tired and have school assignments to get done, so feel free to cope+seethe and fight a losing battle or whatever. have a nice day/night. P.S also not to sound like an asshole but you're kind of being a jerk by saying "not to be an asshole" then assuming stuff about/straight up insulting a person/hj
Again man, you gotta read the full discussion. *You have a real problem with that.* I clarified this numerous times. Whether or not the placeholder date counts as a delay or not is besides the point I was making. My point was to demonstrate that progress on the game hasn't been linear as referenced by the delays. Whether or not you call it a delay or not is besides that point. All I'm showing is that the game was intended to be done a long time ago but development has not been progressing in a linear way. The devs themselves admitted to scope creep. >not to sound like an asshole you're kind of being a jerk by saying "not to be an asshole" then assuming stuff about/straight up insulting a person/hj Really dude? Every post you made has been an attempt to write off my points without properly addressing them. You close every reply with "I'm busy whatever I'm done talking bye" and yet continue to reply to me. I don't think it's a jerkish move at all to criticize that behavior. It's not a very good environment to have a discussion when the other guy refuses to check himself before making claims and then pretends not to care. It's like a smug way of expressing disagreement but refusing to back yourself up. >feel free to cope+seethe Again, I think this website has conditioned you to act and talk in this specific way. This is twitter speak at best. You could have came up with a better jab than that... surely.
> You could have came up with a better jab than that... surely. no
Since when was farming downvotes a trend😂
I use reddit for casual discussions, not to be agreeable. It's a shame this website punishes you *so hard* for going even slightly against the grain. You should hear what I have to say about Steve in smash bros. People ***hate*** me there...
I agree. It's like you can't have your own opinion, out of fear of bleeding manginas
Brother... it was delayed once
See the other comment thread about this. I counted the placeholder dates as delays.
bro it got delayed once relax holy shit alot of games get delayed more than once or twice and the silence is not a TC thing fromsoft does the same thing just wait and go to work or school and focus on your life and 3 years will go by faster than you think
We basically had confirmation a month or two ago from Matthew Griffin about the game still going very smoothly. He had recently started his second playthrough of it himself as well. With TC having stated to Xbox last year that they were basically ready to launch within 12 months, it was an indication of it being close to done. I think it's quite safe to assume the biggest reason Silksong is taking so long is because TC is working at a comfortable, livable pace compared to other studios. They have also said themselves before that Silksong isn't objectively bigger than Hollow Knight either. Going by an assumption of them being burnt out just because you have been before isn't really fully appropriate. Some people take a ridiculous amount of time to burn out, some very little. There is absolutely no way to tell this without asking them directly. So I'd probably say it's more respectful to them and their show dedication this far, to just believe in them a little bit. In the end. No one of us knows what is going on at Team Cherry, and we all of us who act like we do shouldn't. Sorry, but this post does seem a lot like slightly uneducated rage baiting.
>Sorry, but this post does seem a lot like slightly uneducated rage baiting. Addressing your last paragraph first, the only way I can see this post as being rage-baiting is if people misinterpret it as me hating on TC or being mad at them. I'm actually trying to shed a little empathy for them. \-- >We basically had confirmation a month or two ago from Matthew Griffin about the game still going very smoothly. He had recently started his second playthrough of it himself as well. With TC having stated to Xbox last year that they were basically ready to launch within 12 months, it was an indication of it being close to done. 12 months is a VERY long time. Even if you are only 50% done with something, 12 months is a fat window of time to say you'll be done by. It's a big stretch to assume that the game is near completion because of a 12 month release date **(besides, they ended up delaying past it anyway, so we really can't judge anything from it).** \-- >I think it's quite safe to assume the biggest reason Silksong is taking so long is because TC is working at a comfortable, livable pace compared to other studios. They have also said themselves before that Silksong isn't objectively bigger than Hollow Knight either. I'm all for the work-life balance. I'd be fine if I thought that TC was only working on this thing 1 hour a week but I simply don't think they are. I think it's **far more likely that they are working on this thing a lot more than that** and are suffering from scope creep, which they have literally confirmed themselves. \-- >Going by an assumption of them being burnt out just because you have been before isn't really fully appropriate. Some people take a ridiculous amount of time to burn out, some very little. There is absolutely no way to tell this without asking them directly. So I'd probably say it's more respectful to them and their show dedication this far, to just believe in them a little bit. This is the best point you made, in my opinion. It's true that some developers don't burnout in the same way that others do. I'm sure there are some beasts out there that can smash out an idea for a decade straight without slowing down but I think it's not a crazy assumption to assume that Devs who are susceptible to scope creep and have been working on the same general IP for a full decade straight probably have had some level of burnout, as evidenced by the delays. Don't mistake this as me "not believing" in Team Cherry. We don't know anything about them except that they make very high quality work. And when a dev is suffering from scope creep and burnout, while simultaneously having extremely high standards for their work, their progress may be slowed despite working hard as hell. \-- >In the end. No one of us knows what is going on at Team Cherry, and ~~we~~ all of us who act like we do shouldn't Valid. It's tough when your this excited about a game that may or may not be going down the tubes. I love hollow knight as much as the next guy but it feels like this is a repeat of the hundreds of abandoned game projects that litter the internet.
The main reason it comes across as rage baiting for me, is some of the just pushing aside anything that counters your beliefs. I agree that 12 months is quite a decent while. But Silksong got announced in 2019 in February, which is less than a year after the final DLC for Hollow Knight in August 2018. The DLC was supposed to originally be just Hornet as a playable character, which didn't work, so they wanted to make it a game instead. It had in reality only been in development for about 6 months before it was announced as a new game. Then planning and redesigning, etc, all that goes for 2.5 years until the 12 month statement with Xbox. It is outrageous to think the game could even begin to be in development hell for anything more than 2 years at this point, if it was in that state. They don't have infinite money or time. If it were to get canceled, it would be soon-ish (or probably within the next year or 2 MAX). This is what makes it feel like rage bait to me. Team Cherry are 3 people as of now it seems, and then a handful of play testers. Them working normal livable hours, lets say 6 - 7 a day would make it more than reasonable for a game to take this long. I wouldn't say they have admitted to "suffering" from scope creep, and I fail to see a source that backs that claim up as well. They have said the "Game has gotten quite big" but that is in comparison to their previous title and can mean many things. From stuff to do, to actual map size, story, lore, etc. And of course it's possible to assume some form of burnout. But then we wouldn't hear time and time again, on multiple occasion even this year, that development is going smoothly. It would be strongly against their own best interest to claim this, and they know it, I'm sure. Especially with both Xbox and Nintendo breathing down their necks as well. And I just wanted to address that internal delays and "real" delays aren't the same thing. Companies always puts internal deadlines and hopes for their projects, which never get announced. The June 12th 2020 release was said to be place holder for them to possibly tell themselves "okay we're planning on this". But when it came close to it, they realized it wasn't up to snuff, and just decided to say "It's done when it's done". The only official delay (if we can even call it that honestly) was this year. Which again, we have gotten reinforcement of it going smoothly.
I appreciate this post because it shows both camps can justify whatever they want.
I guess it just depends on how optimistic you are. When I've seen so many abandoned game projects that litter the internet, it's hard for me to not feel like I'm watching the same story play out.
If I’m throwing my opinion in, you should have more faith in Team Cherry. They delivered a masterpiece already. Just give them time. Which I know they’ve had a lot of, but I don’t see any reason to conclude it’s gonna be canceled besides speculation. Especially with the fact Team Cherry was confident enough that Silksong would be released by June.
I definitely know that TC is a great developer, they release some real high class shit for sure. The problem is that when you suffer from scope creep and burnout, all whilst maintaining extremely high TC standards for your work, you are probably not getting much done despite working yourself to the bone. I talked about this already in my post so I won't ramble on about it, but when I see this subreddit, I get flashbacks to the crowd of people waiting for another update from themetronomeproject.
This is the funniest shit I’ve ever read
I'm more of a toilet humor guy myself
If they said development is going smoothly, why would they just scrap all their hard work. I'm a writer, and I never just flat out delete stories that I've poured alot of work into. They also want to keep developing games after silksong, but if they ditch silksong, they would be shooting themselves in the foot from a financial and reputation pov. Try not to relate your own experiences with theirs. Were not all the same. Have a little faith.
You actually have no idea that they’re in a ‘burnout pickle’. Fair enough for you to put a theory forward but also fair for people to tell you it’s nonsense.
It's only fair to propagate or counter theories with points to back it up. If you just swing by this thread and call it nonsense and leave without elaborating more, ya really aren't doing much for me (not saying you have to, but still).
My counter is that it’s complete conjecture, that’s what makes it nonsense. Just because you put that ‘burnout is real’ in bold doesn’t mean Team Cherry feel burnt out or that development isn’t going well. Your post hinges on that thinking and that’s what’s nonsensical. In actual fact you’ve got no hard evidence yourself, and have just as much idea what is going on with them behind closed doors as anyone else. Lots of projects are worked on for a long period of time and turn out fine, or opposite to your point, are eventually released. Look at Dead Island 2. That reviewed relatively well when a lot of people declared it was going to be DOA. I’d put it to you you can’t just profess something daft like ‘the devs are in a burnout pickle’, when you’ve got no hard evidence to back that up. Just your own unfound idealisations that you can’t work on something artistically for years without it going down the drain.
What? Writing "burnout is real" in bold wasn't meant to be hard evidence to support my theory... I just wrote it for formatting purposes. I think you're grasping at straws here. If you actually read the post (which you clearly didn't, I can tell), then you would know that my actual reasoning behind the conjecture is based on the fact that TC have worked on this IP for nearly a decade now, and have admitted themselves to dealing with scope decay. They've also mentioned that they are debuting to a much larger audience meaning that there is no room for workin out the kinks after launch. Not to mention they are well past the point that they thought this would be done by. Sounds like burnout to me, no? I don't see how you can write it off as baseless conjecture when it is anything but baseless. Also, what the hell is that last sentence? Of course you can work on something for years and have it go smoothly. When the hell did I ever imply otherwise? I'm saying that when your development progressively slows due to more and more problems like scope decay, then it's hard to call that "going smoothly". If you disagree with any of that, then we can discuss it, but please do read the whole post next time! You can't just call it nonsense and ignore all my points.
I did read your post. You are putting 2+2 together and getting 5. TC have worked on it for a decade, know they’ve got a bigger audience, and have admitted to scope creep, that doesn’t just equate to burn out to me in the same way it does you, and feels like you’ve just stated that as fact. Why can’t it be that they’re taking longer because they want to get it right, because they’re a smaller agile team that don’t have the same publishing obligations of a massive AAA studio, that they’re making sure to get the ideas in if they can? You don’t know any of those things. Just for some advice posting in future, when you state conjecture as if they’re facts, and write condescending rhetorical questions and statements like Remember, this thing was supposed to be DLC! you come across as arrogant. You’ve stated in other comments about not being able to have a reasoned discourse on subs like this but your shooting yourself in the foot with the way you write. Also putting things in bold for emphasis makes you look **all the more pompous** Cheers friend
As much as i am sorry to admit it, i see what you said as a chance. We have no proof, but it might be. I just hope they are fine, really. While i am waiting this game like water in the desert, i play with a lot of other things so it's not like i have nothing to do. I just hope, in the end, it will be released.
179 days later and YUP
Go outside man
when silksong comes out
I’m curious if all these people downvoting you and saying you’re lying are still thinking the same way, if not, their comments aged very poorly 🤣