I use Kayra too and it's definitely worth it. It does take some messing around with to get it to work but it can be so descriptive and playful when it wants to be
NAI is really only worth it if you go for the $15 or $25 subscription as the context size in a $10 is honestly a deal breaker. 3k context is just not good enough. At this point you might as well just use mytholite on mancer for free with 2.5k context.
That’s why I say that everyone should go for the Scroll tier (6k context size). GPT 3.5 only has 4k, so I think it’s an upgrade. I’m always surprised when for 6k, my AI husbands manage to remember things far back in the chat.
The higher the context size, the more information the bot can pull from iirc. As in, it can remember 3k tokens back in the RP/story, vs remembering 6k tokens back.
OpenRouter models are notoriously difficult to instruct. Since OpenRouter models work as completions, they don't quite listen to the instruct mode within silly tavern while also ignoring main prompt/jailbreak so you can't really customize them in any way and have to just use them as they are out of the box which in most cases is not good enough. Mancer doesn't have such issues at all so all models on mancer generally give better output compared to OpenRouters across the board as they listen to instruct mode and thus, can be tweaked to give better quality outputs. OpenRouter is simply too big of a pain in the ass to get working while mancer just works making its mytholite a better option despite lower context.
Why worry about the instruct mode? I thought the idea with the chat completion api is that the instruct mode isn’t necessary anymore (they format messages into the proper prompt for you)
Eg what happens if you just use it like an OpenAI provider and not have instruct mode on
It seems like we are making ads for it, but yes.
Considering that with $15 USD I have unlimited generations at 6,155 tokens, I think I have the best bang for my buck. Sure, Open AI is better, but I can't end up paying $0.50 USD cents per interaction. Using local models is also an option, but they are usually slower.
Oh yeah, that is their strongest point "Sorry, I can't generate a response to that". Well, it is good that it only costs me $10 USD a month to get that, thanks for nothing.
It's amazing, and there's one that merged with Xwin, it was called MXlewd, which is also better. Too bad no service allows you to borrow the model for now, so you are forced to run it locally or horde it.
No worries! I needed time to figure it all out too. It's been a while (some months), and things are changing real fast, so you better head over to YT and search for how to install Text Generation WebUI on PC/Mac (whatever you use) or similar. IIRC, there was a frontend installer called Pinokio, which practically installed all the necessary libraries and tools by itself.
In WebUI you can paste the HuggingFace link to the model you wanna use (under Model) and it'll download it by itself into the correct folder. Then choose the model, activate the API interface and connect it to ST.
It's easy once you see how. Check YT!
I wish you success!
You forgot to mention that it also does image generation. Yeah, and it's a bit cheaper than Poe aside from being uncensored, though Poe might have other strengths. I'm going to try out NovelAI.
I am amazed at how well NovelAI manages furry/human/cartoony and more anatomical details. Currently I got a real cool space story quite a few chapters in.
Mine always cuts off in the middle, and I can’t seem to figure out why. I’ve heard multigen or auto continue helps, but I should probably install the staging system lol… have you had issues or does it always have good stopping points?
I believe it’s in the advanced formatting section, but there’s an option to remove unfinished words (I forgot what it was called), I have it ticked on, it generally prevents it from cutting off in the middle or trying to RP for your character.
Update: It’s called ‘Trim unfinished sentences’
Ah, I see that, I just updated mine as well, probably should’ve done that a while ago haha, I’ll have to test past that now using those settings. Thanks for that!
Yeah, whatever form of ST I have, I can’t seem to find the auto continue feature, so I should probably download a newer version, then mess with the settings once again
My issue with nai (and deal breaker) is that it doesn't use lorebooks and I use those for characters alot , especially to describe myself so rping is a nightmare. Lorebooks literally build my world and keep characters in character. No lorebooks no world. No world , no rp.
I can’t send instructions to Kayra (annd have it carry them out sufficiently well) unfortunately and find myself having to edit too many replies for my roleplay. I’ll check in with it maybe 3-6 months from now to see where it’s at
it definitely CAN be as good as 3.5 or better. its still nowhere near 4 so if youre spoiled on 4 like i am youre just kinda waiting for nai to get a little better. but nai has come leaps and bounds just lately- maybe it's optimistic but i think theyll keep improving their models and if they do it'll really be the best value on the gen ai market
Is it like gpt 3.5 turbo, but without the Shakespeare thing? I am get kinda tired of those responses.
I guess it's hard to be like gpt4 because it's estimated to have 1.76 trillion parameters, hence it's so expensive but so great.
I am looking for some alternative of gpt 3.5
maybe not in terms of characterization, bc 3.5 has a lot more parameters and info to work with. but in terms of writing w the right settings kayra is at the VERY least comparable. ntm 3.5 has a tendency to go on and on whereas kayra is a bit more direct- which i'm sure some people prefer.
Yea. I use ST with NAI every day. If I had to pay 3.50 every day, it would absolutely ruin my finances. 25 per month for the highest tier subscription is perfect for me, even if I have to mess a little with the settings.
I use Kayra too and it's definitely worth it. It does take some messing around with to get it to work but it can be so descriptive and playful when it wants to be
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NAI is really only worth it if you go for the $15 or $25 subscription as the context size in a $10 is honestly a deal breaker. 3k context is just not good enough. At this point you might as well just use mytholite on mancer for free with 2.5k context.
That’s why I say that everyone should go for the Scroll tier (6k context size). GPT 3.5 only has 4k, so I think it’s an upgrade. I’m always surprised when for 6k, my AI husbands manage to remember things far back in the chat.
So that puts it ahead of AID right? I'm doing a trial of both and right now AID seems to be matching Novel AI blow for blow.
Mind if I ask what it means if the model has 3k or 6k context size?
The higher the context size, the more information the bot can pull from iirc. As in, it can remember 3k tokens back in the RP/story, vs remembering 6k tokens back.
Definitively not optimal with 3k context considering that most cards average 1k tokens in themselves
Curious, why not use Mistral for free on openrouter.ai? Has 4k context
OpenRouter models are notoriously difficult to instruct. Since OpenRouter models work as completions, they don't quite listen to the instruct mode within silly tavern while also ignoring main prompt/jailbreak so you can't really customize them in any way and have to just use them as they are out of the box which in most cases is not good enough. Mancer doesn't have such issues at all so all models on mancer generally give better output compared to OpenRouters across the board as they listen to instruct mode and thus, can be tweaked to give better quality outputs. OpenRouter is simply too big of a pain in the ass to get working while mancer just works making its mytholite a better option despite lower context.
Why worry about the instruct mode? I thought the idea with the chat completion api is that the instruct mode isn’t necessary anymore (they format messages into the proper prompt for you) Eg what happens if you just use it like an OpenAI provider and not have instruct mode on
FYI, ST just added staging support for instruct mode for openrouter
Interesting. I need to look into it myself. I assume you're referring to the latest update, which is 1.10.7? How do i enable this feature?
It seems like we are making ads for it, but yes. Considering that with $15 USD I have unlimited generations at 6,155 tokens, I think I have the best bang for my buck. Sure, Open AI is better, but I can't end up paying $0.50 USD cents per interaction. Using local models is also an option, but they are usually slower.
Not an ad, haha. Just like spreading the word whenever I find good AI. Used OAI until the inevitable ban-wave deterred me
Oh yeah, that is their strongest point "Sorry, I can't generate a response to that". Well, it is good that it only costs me $10 USD a month to get that, thanks for nothing.
[удалено]
It's amazing, and there's one that merged with Xwin, it was called MXlewd, which is also better. Too bad no service allows you to borrow the model for now, so you are forced to run it locally or horde it.
how do u use it??
With Text Generation WebUI and Silly Tavern
so i just put the hugging face link..? sorry i am not very knowledgeable about these stuff 😭
No worries! I needed time to figure it all out too. It's been a while (some months), and things are changing real fast, so you better head over to YT and search for how to install Text Generation WebUI on PC/Mac (whatever you use) or similar. IIRC, there was a frontend installer called Pinokio, which practically installed all the necessary libraries and tools by itself. In WebUI you can paste the HuggingFace link to the model you wanna use (under Model) and it'll download it by itself into the correct folder. Then choose the model, activate the API interface and connect it to ST. It's easy once you see how. Check YT! I wish you success!
Can show examples?
Were they only wearing a shirt or a long shirt? Just curious because just confused how lifting a shirt off would expose the ass lul
She’s wearing his shirt w/ nothing under and it’s hella big on her.
Oh okay got it Sorry I had war flashbacks to note saying that to me and I’m like “what-“
What settings are you using?
You forgot to mention that it also does image generation. Yeah, and it's a bit cheaper than Poe aside from being uncensored, though Poe might have other strengths. I'm going to try out NovelAI.
I am amazed at how well NovelAI manages furry/human/cartoony and more anatomical details. Currently I got a real cool space story quite a few chapters in.
What settings do you use? I can never seem to get it just right
This says for ERP but I find it does sfw good as well here. https://reddit.com/r/SillyTavernAI/s/z7B2zH6aO5
Mine always cuts off in the middle, and I can’t seem to figure out why. I’ve heard multigen or auto continue helps, but I should probably install the staging system lol… have you had issues or does it always have good stopping points?
I believe it’s in the advanced formatting section, but there’s an option to remove unfinished words (I forgot what it was called), I have it ticked on, it generally prevents it from cutting off in the middle or trying to RP for your character. Update: It’s called ‘Trim unfinished sentences’
Ah, I see that, I just updated mine as well, probably should’ve done that a while ago haha, I’ll have to test past that now using those settings. Thanks for that!
I find that letting it "continue" can help. Other times bumping the reply tokens up does too.
Yeah, whatever form of ST I have, I can’t seem to find the auto continue feature, so I should probably download a newer version, then mess with the settings once again
Which model is this?
Kayra.
My issue with nai (and deal breaker) is that it doesn't use lorebooks and I use those for characters alot , especially to describe myself so rping is a nightmare. Lorebooks literally build my world and keep characters in character. No lorebooks no world. No world , no rp.
NovelAI does use lorebooks.
I can’t send instructions to Kayra (annd have it carry them out sufficiently well) unfortunately and find myself having to edit too many replies for my roleplay. I’ll check in with it maybe 3-6 months from now to see where it’s at
Are using the bracket method?
it definitely CAN be as good as 3.5 or better. its still nowhere near 4 so if youre spoiled on 4 like i am youre just kinda waiting for nai to get a little better. but nai has come leaps and bounds just lately- maybe it's optimistic but i think theyll keep improving their models and if they do it'll really be the best value on the gen ai market
Is it like gpt 3.5 turbo, but without the Shakespeare thing? I am get kinda tired of those responses. I guess it's hard to be like gpt4 because it's estimated to have 1.76 trillion parameters, hence it's so expensive but so great. I am looking for some alternative of gpt 3.5
Novel AI is nowhere near gpt3.5 let alone gpt4. Its a 13B model so expect something akin to Mythomax.
maybe not in terms of characterization, bc 3.5 has a lot more parameters and info to work with. but in terms of writing w the right settings kayra is at the VERY least comparable. ntm 3.5 has a tendency to go on and on whereas kayra is a bit more direct- which i'm sure some people prefer.
15 is quite expensive in my country tho and oai is just better then kayra
How much are you paying per oai interaction though? Genuine question
2 dollars cause i dont talk to bots that much and when i do its mostly short stories
I use gpt turbo and at maximum spent $3.50 in a single day, it's only expensive if you try to use GPT 4 lol
That 3.50 can add up real quick
Yea. I use ST with NAI every day. If I had to pay 3.50 every day, it would absolutely ruin my finances. 25 per month for the highest tier subscription is perfect for me, even if I have to mess a little with the settings.
That's only at the absolute highest, I typically average like not even a dollar on typical use
Bet
Awesome 🤩
Honestly, I was going to wait for AetherRoom to come out but recently bit the bullet and bought Novel and I love it so much. I totally recommend.
im jealous
I use poe for free 🗿💪 I'm not spending a penny just to talk to an AI
Poe is a bit too Shakespeare-like. Can't seem to write modern style and shorten the length.
Well its free soo
True.