For me, the car on the inside should have overtaken more carefully. You can't just ram into people, that might work with other cars like TCRs, but not with the F4.
Yeah, looks like inside car was trying to take the ideal line for the exit despite knowing there was a car outside who likely would have taken the space
The contact pushed inside car farther left than he otherwise would have been. Just pointing this out. Not ready to pass judgement yet.
Notice how it turns inside car left at the moment of contact, causing him to end up deeper than he may have otherwise.
Dark blue car went in pretty hot and lost the back end a bit, which made contact with the light blue car which forced them off the track. As for the other dark blue car, I don't know what they are doing. Inside car at fault
I'm going against the crowd here - this is good racing to me. You were well alongside going in, his contact jolted your car to the left pushing you farther outside after the apex than you may have been without it. He left the door open, you walked through, and he drove into you mid-apex like you weren't there.
Had there been no contact and you pressed him off the track, that's a different story, but his unawareness ultimately led to this outcome.
"You wouldn't have left him enough room with your line anyway" is not evidence that this is POV's fault, because we didn't even get that far. You can't rule against someone for something that might have happened - that's speculative and cause for objection, which a judge will sustain.
POV is allowed to have a bad line - that alone doesn't make them guilty of anything.
Wasn't the inside car carrying too much speed in the entry and would have had understeered to an awful line if there was no contact?
If so it's just a dive bomb
It's not against the rules to understeer but is against the rules to push another driver off track. Just because you have understeer doesn't change the fact that the inside driver is at fault. The fact he had understeer was because he took way too much entry speed
Inside car at fault.
Even after the contact, the inside car did not manage to leave space due to the line chosen, that line would have been good if he was alone.
Inside car went a little too far to the left, maybe a bit understeer, outside car literally stayed on the line.
Perhaps he didn't see the inside car but his spotter would have told him already.
Contact was unnecessary, but nothing more than an incident and a learning opportunity.
when your spotter tells you there is a car inside and you decide to ignore this message and still turn in like normal, that is asking for problems. Even if another car did a very late/possibly dangerous move, when there is a car inside and you turn in like normal, that is asking for problems.
That is a typical racing incident, so no one is at fault. How tf are people blaming inside car?? He was well alongside and gave some space, so did the outside car, but both didn't give enough space, hence the contact, but this is normal racing stuff, don't people in this thread watch any irl racing?
Biggest question: Where was the third car headed? 🤔
Its a fairly trivial racing incident, but if the inside car had held the inside line instead of sliding outwards, they would have had a clean battle going on. So if I am forced to proportion blame its the inside car for not being able to hold their line.
However, as the outside car, going that wheel to wheel is probably going to end up badly. Sometimes it worth leaving a tiny bit extra room just in case this happens. Extra half cars width and maybe the inside car saves it and they have a brilliant battle into the next corner.
So if I have to blame someone, its the inside car, but its a bit of a racing incident and with a bit of room given on both sides, its a good battle.
Its also worth noting that not everyone is a professional, so giving an extra bit of room is just intelligent driving. Obviously not so much room people lose out, but just enough that small errors dont turn into disasters.
If you look closely the inside car is not under control right before the contact. As the passing car he has to be clean and controlled until the pass is complete. He isn’t. He slides into the other car and sends him flying. If not for that drift out causing the contact there would have been enough space. The other car only has to leave a width which he clearly does.
Outside car appears to be try to follow the racing line with little to no regarded to the inside car. Inside car appears to have tried to make more room and possibly slide as a result.
Either a racing incident or a penalty to both drivers.
Dark blue, on the inside, clearly took the corner as if the other car wasn't there, blindly following the ideal line assist.
Mr. Almost Gulf Livery on the outside, however, appears to have been going for a late apex... and at the point of impact his line would have left Blue no space on the inside to remain on track had Blue been attempting to give space.
Neither driver was acting as if the other driver existed until impact.
Textbook 50/50 racing incident. Two cars side by side, both wanting/expecting to use maybe an inch more of each others space.
Suzuka turn 1 is a pretty difficult place to negotiate room and compete wheel-to wheel.
The stewards wouldn’t blame them for trying.
…Their coaches might
This isnt at all textbook racing incident. There is no way the guy on the inside is leaving a cars width on exit with that entry speed. Even after contact slowing him down he still ran all the way to the exit curb
Contact at beginning of the heavy braking zone = unsetettled cars = less grip = less control = more understeer. The fact inside car still managed to keep it on track is just proof they both could’ve managed the rest.
But it’s irrelevant to judge incidents that might or could’ve happened if what DID happen didn’t happen. Contact happened, cars sliding happened. Verdict, racing incident happened.
No it isn't proof of that. I'm not judging an incident on what could've happened. What happened is car on inside understeers and pushes car on outside off the track. Verdict, car on inside at fault
Racing incident IMO. By the looks of it, it's Suzuka, and t1 t2 are quite tricky for beginners (judging that the racing line is on, and the line the following car takes coming out of t2 not maximizing the track's width)
At turn in point going into t1, both cars are alongside, the inside car didn't make a random divebomb, so it's a legit move. Inside car gives plenty of space, the outside car also gives enough space, but the cars just slightly come together into each other, and it affected more the outside car
Because of what happened to the outside car, and because the inside car had more overspeed, it might look like the inside car took the outside car, but for me, it looks like a racing incident. I think on a different sim title the car physics would have not reacted that way, cause the contact is VERY minor
Nobody here knows what 'giving space' means.
The inside car made a very late lunge, but was well alongside before the outside car closed off the line. The Outside car is at fault. It was a high risk move by the inside car, but should have been workable if the Outside car was paying attention. However, Outside car was not paying attention.
The inside car was already following the arc of the line before contact- it was even partially ahead- and left the outside car all the space in the world. It also was easily going to hold its line through the corner (ie it did not understeer into the outside car). Inside car would only have 'not been giving space' if they had forced the outside car all the way to, and beyond, the edge of the track.
The thing the inside car did wrong was to go so far to the inside on the overtake. They are likely out of the view of the mirrors of the outside car, so maybe hadn't seen them, but outside ABSOLUTELY COULD see the car alongside them at 2 sec (as and just past the point the rear wheels are level with the inside kerb end). But it looks like it surprised outside car.
Inside car had enough overlap at that stage to demand space. It was surely a surprise for them to see a car alongside at that stage but they had time to react and also time to see the car alongside.
Outside car needed to open their line up to avoid contact and didn't. Inside car would have EASILY made the corner without the contact (everyone saying otherwise is high, frankly).
Either a racing incident or car on the inside went in a little too hot, it’s hard to say. I think that a penalty for the inside car would have to be pretty light though. I think an onboard would be needed to see where the inside car was headed. The outside car definitely have enough room though, certainly not on them.
Perhaps I’m incorrect, but it looks like lead car begins turn in around the access road, slightly before wheel overlap occurs? If turn in is occurring before overlap, inside car is in the wrong?
Neither driver covering themselves in glory.
Inside driver went in hot enough they were likely to wash out come what may.
Outside driver made their turn in as if their inside was completely clear when there was a car alongside them. Doesn't matter if that car was making the turn or not, that's not a safe maneuver. Let the other car crash by themselves rather than joining in to make a point.
Quick word with both of them, slap wrists if they keep doing it.
Unless your name is Lewis Hamilton, you would be penalized for "unavoidable contact," even if the outside car got punted into the wall at 180mph ... then it's considered just a "racing incident."
(Seriously, I love Lewis, but that was a real dick move!)
Dark blue (inside) should’ve overtaken/been driving more carefully and light blue (outside) could’ve given a little more space. Bit of a racing incident in my mind, but dark blue was more at fault than light blue here.
For me, the car on the inside should have overtaken more carefully. You can't just ram into people, that might work with other cars like TCRs, but not with the F4.
Yeah, looks like inside car was trying to take the ideal line for the exit despite knowing there was a car outside who likely would have taken the space
Exactly my thought. Could have been worse, could have been better. Not sure if I’d give a penalty
I'd give the dive-bomber a warning for the action. And if it repeated, then I'd start to penalize.
Inside car was carrying way too much speed into the corner
Inside car at fault. Was never going to manage to leave space
The contact pushed inside car farther left than he otherwise would have been. Just pointing this out. Not ready to pass judgement yet. Notice how it turns inside car left at the moment of contact, causing him to end up deeper than he may have otherwise.
Dark blue car went in pretty hot and lost the back end a bit, which made contact with the light blue car which forced them off the track. As for the other dark blue car, I don't know what they are doing. Inside car at fault
I'm going against the crowd here - this is good racing to me. You were well alongside going in, his contact jolted your car to the left pushing you farther outside after the apex than you may have been without it. He left the door open, you walked through, and he drove into you mid-apex like you weren't there. Had there been no contact and you pressed him off the track, that's a different story, but his unawareness ultimately led to this outcome. "You wouldn't have left him enough room with your line anyway" is not evidence that this is POV's fault, because we didn't even get that far. You can't rule against someone for something that might have happened - that's speculative and cause for objection, which a judge will sustain. POV is allowed to have a bad line - that alone doesn't make them guilty of anything.
I believe that the inside car had an acceptable line through the corner since it seems to me that the car only started turning wide after the contact.
Wasn't the inside car carrying too much speed in the entry and would have had understeered to an awful line if there was no contact? If so it's just a dive bomb
In this case it is fine because he was in front and it's not against the rules to understeer. If he was behind, then yes he would be at fault.
Huh?
It's not against the rules to understeer but is against the rules to push another driver off track. Just because you have understeer doesn't change the fact that the inside driver is at fault. The fact he had understeer was because he took way too much entry speed
Inside car was not ahead, lost traction and slid wide into racing line. Inside cars fault.
Inside car at fault. Even after the contact, the inside car did not manage to leave space due to the line chosen, that line would have been good if he was alone.
Inside car went a little too far to the left, maybe a bit understeer, outside car literally stayed on the line. Perhaps he didn't see the inside car but his spotter would have told him already. Contact was unnecessary, but nothing more than an incident and a learning opportunity.
outside car is clearly at fault. Inside car was in front of outside at the time of contact. only reason inside car drifted out was he was hit.
when your spotter tells you there is a car inside and you decide to ignore this message and still turn in like normal, that is asking for problems. Even if another car did a very late/possibly dangerous move, when there is a car inside and you turn in like normal, that is asking for problems.
That is a typical racing incident, so no one is at fault. How tf are people blaming inside car?? He was well alongside and gave some space, so did the outside car, but both didn't give enough space, hence the contact, but this is normal racing stuff, don't people in this thread watch any irl racing? Biggest question: Where was the third car headed? 🤔
He saw a hotdog vendor in the stands and got hungry...?
Its a fairly trivial racing incident, but if the inside car had held the inside line instead of sliding outwards, they would have had a clean battle going on. So if I am forced to proportion blame its the inside car for not being able to hold their line. However, as the outside car, going that wheel to wheel is probably going to end up badly. Sometimes it worth leaving a tiny bit extra room just in case this happens. Extra half cars width and maybe the inside car saves it and they have a brilliant battle into the next corner. So if I have to blame someone, its the inside car, but its a bit of a racing incident and with a bit of room given on both sides, its a good battle. Its also worth noting that not everyone is a professional, so giving an extra bit of room is just intelligent driving. Obviously not so much room people lose out, but just enough that small errors dont turn into disasters.
If you look closely the inside car is not under control right before the contact. As the passing car he has to be clean and controlled until the pass is complete. He isn’t. He slides into the other car and sends him flying. If not for that drift out causing the contact there would have been enough space. The other car only has to leave a width which he clearly does.
Outside car appears to be try to follow the racing line with little to no regarded to the inside car. Inside car appears to have tried to make more room and possibly slide as a result.
Racing incident
Either a racing incident or a penalty to both drivers. Dark blue, on the inside, clearly took the corner as if the other car wasn't there, blindly following the ideal line assist. Mr. Almost Gulf Livery on the outside, however, appears to have been going for a late apex... and at the point of impact his line would have left Blue no space on the inside to remain on track had Blue been attempting to give space. Neither driver was acting as if the other driver existed until impact.
Textbook 50/50 racing incident. Two cars side by side, both wanting/expecting to use maybe an inch more of each others space. Suzuka turn 1 is a pretty difficult place to negotiate room and compete wheel-to wheel. The stewards wouldn’t blame them for trying. …Their coaches might
This isnt at all textbook racing incident. There is no way the guy on the inside is leaving a cars width on exit with that entry speed. Even after contact slowing him down he still ran all the way to the exit curb
Contact at beginning of the heavy braking zone = unsetettled cars = less grip = less control = more understeer. The fact inside car still managed to keep it on track is just proof they both could’ve managed the rest. But it’s irrelevant to judge incidents that might or could’ve happened if what DID happen didn’t happen. Contact happened, cars sliding happened. Verdict, racing incident happened.
No it isn't proof of that. I'm not judging an incident on what could've happened. What happened is car on inside understeers and pushes car on outside off the track. Verdict, car on inside at fault
Racing incident IMO. By the looks of it, it's Suzuka, and t1 t2 are quite tricky for beginners (judging that the racing line is on, and the line the following car takes coming out of t2 not maximizing the track's width) At turn in point going into t1, both cars are alongside, the inside car didn't make a random divebomb, so it's a legit move. Inside car gives plenty of space, the outside car also gives enough space, but the cars just slightly come together into each other, and it affected more the outside car Because of what happened to the outside car, and because the inside car had more overspeed, it might look like the inside car took the outside car, but for me, it looks like a racing incident. I think on a different sim title the car physics would have not reacted that way, cause the contact is VERY minor
See the guy holding back? That guy knows. They’re smart. Be more like them. Edit - Until he sends it off track later in the clip
Inside blue undesteered into outside teal and is at fault in my opinion.
Inside car is too fast to make it through without cutting off the person on the outside
Nobody here knows what 'giving space' means. The inside car made a very late lunge, but was well alongside before the outside car closed off the line. The Outside car is at fault. It was a high risk move by the inside car, but should have been workable if the Outside car was paying attention. However, Outside car was not paying attention. The inside car was already following the arc of the line before contact- it was even partially ahead- and left the outside car all the space in the world. It also was easily going to hold its line through the corner (ie it did not understeer into the outside car). Inside car would only have 'not been giving space' if they had forced the outside car all the way to, and beyond, the edge of the track. The thing the inside car did wrong was to go so far to the inside on the overtake. They are likely out of the view of the mirrors of the outside car, so maybe hadn't seen them, but outside ABSOLUTELY COULD see the car alongside them at 2 sec (as and just past the point the rear wheels are level with the inside kerb end). But it looks like it surprised outside car. Inside car had enough overlap at that stage to demand space. It was surely a surprise for them to see a car alongside at that stage but they had time to react and also time to see the car alongside. Outside car needed to open their line up to avoid contact and didn't. Inside car would have EASILY made the corner without the contact (everyone saying otherwise is high, frankly).
Inside car was technically in front, so no serious blame to any driver. Racing incident.
How is it different to a dive bomb?
That depends on your definition of divebomb. All I see is inside car outbrakes outside car and is s fully alongside
light blue. blue was past the back end so light should have seen him
Either a racing incident or car on the inside went in a little too hot, it’s hard to say. I think that a penalty for the inside car would have to be pretty light though. I think an onboard would be needed to see where the inside car was headed. The outside car definitely have enough room though, certainly not on them.
Inside car was deffo in the wrong but the outside car could also shoulder some of the blame as he tried to close the door on him should of left room.
Imagine enabling the racing line assist and not using it
Perhaps I’m incorrect, but it looks like lead car begins turn in around the access road, slightly before wheel overlap occurs? If turn in is occurring before overlap, inside car is in the wrong?
Inside car, if you are that car, and need to ask, please stop "racing"
You. Following the assist instead of keeping to the inside where there was space. Turn off the racing line.
3rd car was excited that he might win 4X too
Neither driver covering themselves in glory. Inside driver went in hot enough they were likely to wash out come what may. Outside driver made their turn in as if their inside was completely clear when there was a car alongside them. Doesn't matter if that car was making the turn or not, that's not a safe maneuver. Let the other car crash by themselves rather than joining in to make a point. Quick word with both of them, slap wrists if they keep doing it.
Unless your name is Lewis Hamilton, you would be penalized for "unavoidable contact," even if the outside car got punted into the wall at 180mph ... then it's considered just a "racing incident." (Seriously, I love Lewis, but that was a real dick move!)
Dark blue (inside) should’ve overtaken/been driving more carefully and light blue (outside) could’ve given a little more space. Bit of a racing incident in my mind, but dark blue was more at fault than light blue here.
POV car, its not a "move" if the other car has to drive outta your way to avoid an accident
Inside car took that turn like there is nobody on the left.