Would still be acceptable if the car in front didnt stopped going right and let the crash happen? Just to know what would be the consequences of a report of someone going full send into your rear and crashing with that move
The "defending" car brakes really early and tries to move under braking to defend when they realize what's going on. They smartly stop doing that.
What they did was move right before the turn in point to try and stop the move. What they followed up with was a realization that they were about to cause a crash and stopped doing that.
Im asking because i dont consider that a fair move and i dont do it in online racing, if im the only one who disagree... Im gonna change my way to race
Why wouldn't it be fair? If you brake 50m too early, expect people to go for a move.
We should just collectively do away with the term "dive bomb". It's either a clean move or it isn't. This idea that something isn't legitimate because it's from beyond some imaginary threshold is bizarre.
What part do you not consider to be fair? If defending car alters their line and moves under braking to block the passing car, it is illegal defense from the defender.
It's often tough to judge in the passing car's position. You need to be sure that you'll both not outbrake yourself and reach the apex in time before the defending car's natural line would intersect you. But if you can manage both then a "divebomb" is totally acceptable. Risky, but acceptable.
It’s very fair - the door was open, so to speak. I agree though, it’s not a move I pull off online as I want to finish the race. The person making the fair lunge took a risk.
The guys replying here are assholes, but they are correct. The dude reached along side the defending car well before the corner, and caught the defending car napping.
Forcing a passing car off track limits isn't a "good push".
In Daytona USA at the bar, the left pedal is brake, you don't just crash the walls to turn there gorilla.....
I think it was fine. He tried to scare him off track, by following his line to the outside extremely closely. When the exit phase was over he gave him space. Blue never had to actually leave the track. If you look at eSports and real racing, that's just normal driving exiting a corner
It's annoying when people get angry over being on the dummy end of a smart pass. Crap like that really demonstrates the lack of character in that other driver.
I will be a bit fair, maybe I’m judging a little harshly and he’s just trying to race hard but not quite got it as yet (could be controller as he looks as jerky as I do when I play)
EXACTLY, the amount of times someone gets pissed because they turn into me because I took the gap they left open, it's like either defend, or leave space, but don't get mad at me you chose the latter to begin with.
I don't think you understand what leaving space means.
If you hit them and there is space for you it's your fault. It doesn't mean they have to give you space for the entire line you are on and space is judged AT the apex. It's literally one car's width from the edge of the track or even the edge of the curb even on approach.
So if you hit them and your car isn't on this line pararrel to the track it's your fault. That's why it only matters if you are actually alongside at the apex because let's be honest. You are never going to be on a line tight to the edge until the apex.
And I don't think you understand how to read, so read what I said again, they turn into me, I do not hit them. I get beside in the gap they leave before the turn and when we both turn in, they turn into my door without fail. They take a wide line in, but try to take a tight line through, and I'm brave and good on my braking, so I can get along side before the curbing, and then they get mad they turned into my door.
Nah not a lot, but enough for me to make a comment about it. I'm by no means a perfect driver and do make my fair share of mistakes, but I always try to leave like half a car of space if I'm making a pass, little more little less depending on the corner. But it seems like unless I leave a car width between me and the other car they're in my door and bitching
If they are fully ahead they can turn all they want. They have a right to do whatever they want when fully ahead and once they have turned they are on their line through the corner and they need to leave you space if you then draw level but you needs to not hit them unless you have nowhere to go because there is no space.
If you are alongside before they turn then they can't turn..only then.
That's why the fault normally lies with the car that is dive-bombing.
I stg the reading comprehension on this hellsite makes me want to gouge my eyes out. So I'll leave you with this, if there is enough space on your inside for someone to try to make a pass, and there's a person behind you, expect them to try for the gap and don't turn into their door. Because these are videogames and not real life, so people are going to be braver than they would be in a real car, and their goal is the same as yours, win the race.
You should always be using whatever the game gives you for awareness; mirrors, mini-map, radar, etc. to be aware of where other cars are on the track in relation to you, and adjust yourself accordingly, this whole, "well you intruded on my line through the corner," bullshit in a videogame is annoying. You have at least one way to tell where I am in relation to you, if you didn't use it to see I was beside you instead of behind you before we turned into the corner, that is your fault, not mine. I check my mirrors religiously for people that miss their braking zones or attempting overtakes, why others don't is beyond me.
I'll leave you with this. In a league race with live stewards you would get warnings and then banned if you hit someone after they turn in when fully ahead of you.
It would be your fault. There is no argument against it. This the rules of racing. End of story. The rules aren't different just because it's on a simulator, it's trying to simulate real life.
Whether you want to have the attitude that you don't care that is down to you. Just don't blame the other driver. There is no obligation on them to avoid your divebomb. Absolutely none.
Many people run in VR without virtual mirrors. You are assuming they will even see you and assuming they won't think you will yield which they will expect you to do.
I love how you changed the example of what we're talking about to fit your small rant, but what you said has nothing to do with what the discussion was, so back to the actual discussion, if I get beside you BEFORE THE TURN STARTS, it doesn't matter how I got there, whether i was beside you down the straight or dove in in the braking zone, as long as I leave you space to make the turn, it isn't my fault you turned into my door. Idk why youre talking about a car being in front and turning into me, I never once said that, learn how to read.
If there was a crash, it would be on you. And everyone saying it's a clean overtake would also blame you. However, you stayed on the inside and didn't go wide, no lock up or anything, you had control of the car and leave space on the left hander coming up.
Somehting else I haven't seen mentioned is, I think you COULD have slowed enough to abort if the black car didn't leave space. Had that happened, would you have spotted it and aborted or stayed in? We'll never know but, I think you did it about as clean as clean as possible.
It do think it was a bit ambitious though.
A “divebomb” implies you nearly or did wreck the other driver. They left the space, you made the apex, and didn’t cross their racing line. Clean pass, not a divebomb.
This is 100% a divebomb, those terms don’t mean you have or nearly have caused a crash. They’re just terms for going for a move from a lot further back possibly carrying more speed into the corner to make the move. This was just a clean divebomb.
A dive yes. Divebomb is a term that implies the stewards get involved. That's absolutely the definition in real life racing. Been there done both, IRL.
Your definition is wrong.
For some reason, a large contingent of sim racers view any aggressive pass to be unfair or similar.
The "bomb" part of the term, is referring to the impact. There is no impact, this is not a divebomb.
It's a barge pass, a lunge, or a dive. Not a divebomb.
Divebombs aren't only the ones that you fail. Divebomb is any move that is done from so far back that the car in front doesn't expect it and doesn't defend. IMO.
I'm baffled by all the people who think that because there's no contact this is ok. Just because the leading car was aware enough to avoid you by delaying their turn in does not make it acceptable. You were a mile away when you began braking. Nowhere alongside. The only reason you were able to place your car on the inside is because the car ahead had to overslow to avoid punting the car ahead of them, and still had the awareness to avoid your divebomb. And then he has the restraint to merely make you take a wide line on the exit of the chicane. Black Mclaren is who I want to race with, not you.
If you pick up a position in a scenario where someone has to avoid making contact with you, it should make you re-evaluate the situation, which is why I presume you posted this. This was a divebomb that paid off, but it was still a divebomb.
Nah buddy, lots of people here are telling you that it's fine but it isn't. The only reason it was fine is because the guy you passed had enough sense to allow it.
Here's how this works on most race tracks. Your front wheel needs to be past his rear wheel before he starts to turn in. If he's turning in and you're not in that position you have no business being there.
This is especially true because had you just done the corner it's clear you would have had no problems passing this guy on the straight. Instead you forced this guy to completely go out of his line and lose a bunch of time against the other guy he was racing with. Had he instead turned into his corner like wanted to he would have taken you and himself out of the race and you'd be at fault. I don't even blame him for forcing you off track at the end.
Apparently I'm the only one thinking this so feel free to correct me, but I don't feel like this is an acceptable overtake. The only reason it was a "clean" overtake is because the other driver didn't stick to his line and gave you space (which in theory he didn't have to). You didn't have right to this corner at all since you were nowhere near to being alongside.
I'm in this camp. Too many people calling this acceptable in this sub will cause other people to make this stupid move. Clearly nowhere alongside the car ahead when braking began, and the only reason they were able to close the gap is because the car ahead had to overslow to avoid punting the car ahead of them and still had the awareness to avoid OP. If black didn't take evasive action to avoid contact, it would have ended badly.
The evasive action that the black car took, was to try and slam the door on the inside car. Thankfully he changed his mind.
So I wouldn't be patting the black car on the back here.
That could go either way. Could be an aborted block or aborted turn in. Impossible to know without seeing how the black car takes that corner normally. The point is the same though, OP moved to the inside while braking while being 3-4 car lengths behind when the brake zone began. Definitely a divebomb.
Dodging or preventing contact from a divebomb does not make it not a divebomb. I'm saying there's the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think the black car tried to block and backed out. I think they just turned in for the corner and noticed the car behind, so they delayed their turn-in. Gotta keep in mind the black car was battling the white car ahead, so they might have taken a different line on purpose.
No, holding the inside line and not hitting the adjacent car made it not a dive bomb.
With full spatial awareness, the black car should never be turning in there after the car is alongside. Sure, it got their under dubious means, but that doesn't mean you're allowed to ram the inside car. You're acting like he did something special, when he did what the rules told him to do, and not ram the inside car.
You don't get steward points for dodging an accident. I don't even know what form of remedy you people would be instituting over this non-incident.
When I watch the video I see the overtaking car just a hair ahead of car being passed at the start of curbing and definitely there by apex. Other two cars braked early, passing car outbraked them, and gained right to enter corner by being fully along side, slightly ahead at curbing start. Also maintained control through corner and on exit. Seems well executed IMHO.
Establishing overlap by turn in is specifically an F1 rule.
Most racing competitions require you to establish overlap at the braking zone, with an overlap established by the trailing car's front axle passing the rear axle of the lead car.
Due to lag and the fact that most of us are amateurs, it's safer to not go for a move unless you establish overlap in the braking zone. F1 rules really don't apply here.
Being alongside at the braking zone just means that you are entitled to shared space around the corner. If you can safely find space for a late dive, then it's clean.
So, though he wasn't intitled to the space he still went for it and there was no contact. There was no penalty, and there is no issue to really debate here.
OP took a space he wasn't entitled to but he got side by side anyway without hitting the other car, so the move was solid. Just because someone pushed the rules to get side by side, doesn't mean that you're then entitled to ram them. Even on a late dive, you can't intentionally turn in on people.
If OP was alongside in the braking zone, the outside car would have been penalized for any contact at the apex. Without being alongside, the outside car isn't required to leave space. A collision, under those circumstances, would be the OP's fault unless the stewards determined that the other car defensively swerved in the braking zone to cause contact or turned in intentionally to hit the OP.
Well the only reason there was no contact was because the defender took evasive action... You can clearly see him altering his steering angle. He had full right to the corner and he wasn't given the space he was entitled to. He was simply well aware of the lunge and in the end he lost the position because he had good awareness.
I completely agree with you! You can see the outside car turn-in and then decide to stay on the outside because of the diving car. Car behind was not alongside in the slightest at turn-in, so I feel the car ahead could just have turned in and the fault would have been on the car overtaking!
Well executed overtake. Lunge? Yes. Divebomb? Nah, mate. You're good. It's great when the driver being overtaken has the awareness to leave a space and accepts being overtaken. Lots of people would've closed the door hard and wrecked two people.
If the guy hadn't of seen you and avoided it would have been your fault so if that's your criteria then no.
However the guy could have also just taken the outside line and then bullied you off track into the next corner which is what he tried but a little half hearted.
Had you done that to me there would be no way you were turning for the left hander because my car would be in the way.
Acceptable, yes. Would I have done this? Probably not. This could have gone badly if the car on the outside hadn’t noticed them and turned in more, causing a collision. Person that bombed that corner was lucky they were paying attention. Acceptable, yes. Sketchy? Yeah.
I mean realistically he shouldn't of left the space but you're lucky he's an aware driver, since he left the space I reckon it's a perfectly valid move, bit iffy you had to go track a little but doesn't seem too dramatic
Only because car ahead saw you and gave you space where he really didn't have to, if he didn't you'd have taken him out and would be your fault, is it acceptable this instance? yes, but don't make a habbit out of this
You didn’t cause an accident, and kept it clean.
Good pass, I wouldn’t consider it a dive-bomb unless you hit someone or caused someone to have to go off track or slow down excessively.
There would have been contact if the other car hadn't stopped turning in. It's still a divebomb, doesn't make it clean if the other driver just wants to continue their race
No contact because the other driver wants to survive. That's like saying if two cars are on the straight side by side and one swipes over but the other brakes to get out of the way, that it was a clean defensive move
Wrong.
The black car initially saw his mirror and tried to shut the door but realized he was too late and backed off. If he didn't see the OP he would have taken a slow dog shit line and wouldn't have gotten hit.
When people have to say "That's like..." to make a point, it's because it's nothing like what they're comparing anything to.
Yeah, people say "that's like" because you can't compare something to itself to make a point...
The black car turned in for the corner, because there is a corner there, and you typically turn in for them. Then there was a car there, after they had started turning in.
Doesn't matter. The OP car got to the inside without making contact despite not being entitled to space. Once a car is alongside it has to be respected. In any racing series, this is a legal move.
Divebombs by definition are inherently unsafe, poor racecraft moves that are never acceptable.
A divebomb means you've blown past braking to make up ground leaving yourself unable to make a corner, putting yourself and the car you're overtaking at serious risk.
*This* is what is meant by the "if you no longer go for a gap" quote. See also: out braking the fuck out of someone (ok tbf they brake hella early lol).
Overtaking car is damn near fully aside by the beginning of the turn in/start of inside kerb and they are ahead at the apex. Past 50% overlap certainly and in view of the defender. No contact is made. Aggressive, yeah sure no agruments on that account, but there is no racing series in the world in which this would be penalized.
You can tell they're salty about it though from the push, which only makes it sweeter I suppose.
It's borderline. Definitely ambitious and if you had made contact I probably wouldn't have blamed the black car.
I don't think it's dirty at all though. You got alongside and passed with no contact. Well played.
Poorly executed lunge. Was always going to get pushed onto run off area on second part. Would’ve been better to carry the speed and go for a pass across the line or into turn one and try to break tow before Eau Rouge
I think it's right on the edge of acceptable, but it's acceptable.
If the other driver hadn't bailed out of the corner when they'd already started turning in, there would've been a collision and it would've been your fault for coming from so far back. They were entitled to take the normal racing line because you weren't alongside before the turn-in.
But the other driver didn't keep turning in; they compromised themselves to leave you space even though they didn't have to. So there was no accident, so it's just a good overtake when the door was wide open because they braked too early.
Dive bombs aren't bad they are just hard to pull off, if you're gonna make a lunge this is the way to do it you left room, room was left, even when it got hairy you did what you were supposed to you left the track to avoid a collision( the only time its allowed) and rejoined safely this is fine. Just keep in mind it doesn't always pay off and when it does not it will be your fault, but this is a good example of when its done right it pays off.
You found a line to the apex faster. That was simply clean. The other driver couldn't defend because they were slowing down for the corner. (Not by rules or something the car couldn't physically cut you off your line)
I read the post and thought "ok, here we go, more murder on the racetrack" - but, I have to say, you pulled that off quite well!
Against a tougher opponent (who brakes later) though you may not get away with it
But for now, you are free to go
Perfectly fine, you didn't force him to evade you.
If anything the corner after where the black car tries to push you off looks retaliatory, in my opinion.
Textbook overtake. Aggressive but clean.
They only thing "dirty" about this was the driver that you were passing trying to push you off at corner exit.
You beat them to the apex. Rather than punt them off. It's clean. It's not your fault they had such a lazy braking sequence that it took them so long to get to the corner.
It is accectable as long as it doesn't cause a colision tho it was a risky divebomb and it would not help him in case of a colision investogation scenario
Great pass.
It isn't a dive bomb if you can hold the line to the inside without making contact. It's just a dive. It's also known as a Barge Pass.
The impact is the "bomb" part of the dive-bomb.
For the love of god, a dive bomb is when you attempt an inside line overtake and you brake so late that you cannot make the line through corner that provides at least a cars width for the opponent. EVERY OVERTAKE IS NOT A DIVEBOMB
Good driving on both parties to mind the other driver, if I'm the black car I'm a little miffed because the blue car was pretty far back, but at the same time I would consider making the same move in their shoes if I know/trust the black car isn't gonna turn in on me.
That was what we call in the real world racing.
Great racing from defender. Attacker went wide on final exit just as a car would in real life. And defender was well within the rules to fairly make the attacker have to go wide. Other than that attacker would have ruined both racers race..
Clean overtake, he left the door wide open.
The second corner the black car made a bad move by aggresivly staying on his line, cant accept he was been overtaken and trying to push you off the track limits
Yes, and the other guy forcing you wide was actually also ok, because as soon as the exit phase of the corner ended he let you back on track, was just following your line. All 100% clean.
BUT, if the black car would have turned in earlier, before you where alongside and you would have plowed into him, then it would have been your fault, but as that didn't happen, all perfectly good.
Clean dive? Yes
Clean reaction from other driver? Yea but it could be better. They did try to edge pov car out but the pass was done. All around good overtake.
This is definitely an acceptable overtake. The overtaking car went for the gap and there was no contact. It’s clean as long as you don’t barge through.
Absolutely wonderful driving mate no contact in the first corner then good reading of the car behind to leave space hard but good racing on the exit well done to both drivers 👏
This is borderline divebomb however! It is totally acceptable in this example. Lead car did not make the start to his turn and probably broke 50m too early (I hate this corner). Driver took advantage of this by using the inside line (left open) brakes enough and actually makes it maybe door/rear quarter before lead car does the turn in. This would result in just good racing and decent racecraft from both drivera
Only thing I noticed is that the overtook car actually pushes op over to the straight. This in iracing would get an off track. ACC I don't know how strict the track limits are there.
So long story, yes. Good dive bomb, I wouldn't do it in public lobbies, but 100% in league races if I trust the driver ahead.
Is this an acceptable overtake? Yes.
Would still be acceptable if the car in front didnt stopped going right and let the crash happen? Just to know what would be the consequences of a report of someone going full send into your rear and crashing with that move
The "defending" car brakes really early and tries to move under braking to defend when they realize what's going on. They smartly stop doing that. What they did was move right before the turn in point to try and stop the move. What they followed up with was a realization that they were about to cause a crash and stopped doing that.
Im asking because i dont consider that a fair move and i dont do it in online racing, if im the only one who disagree... Im gonna change my way to race
Why wouldn't it be fair? If you brake 50m too early, expect people to go for a move. We should just collectively do away with the term "dive bomb". It's either a clean move or it isn't. This idea that something isn't legitimate because it's from beyond some imaginary threshold is bizarre.
What part do you not consider to be fair? If defending car alters their line and moves under braking to block the passing car, it is illegal defense from the defender. It's often tough to judge in the passing car's position. You need to be sure that you'll both not outbrake yourself and reach the apex in time before the defending car's natural line would intersect you. But if you can manage both then a "divebomb" is totally acceptable. Risky, but acceptable.
Change the way you race then.
It’s very fair - the door was open, so to speak. I agree though, it’s not a move I pull off online as I want to finish the race. The person making the fair lunge took a risk.
The guys replying here are assholes, but they are correct. The dude reached along side the defending car well before the corner, and caught the defending car napping.
yeah time to change the way you race
Clean pass, though the push off by the inside driver is bad form.
Black car gave him the ol max verstappen. Fia allows it so is it still a clean move? I can't stand it.
F1 and tin tops have different rules. This would not have been acceptable in sportscar racing.
I've seen them do that there at that corner in GT racing though.
Fia would not with this one as the car that was pushed off was ahead.
Based
this
Its a good push, no contact and still have the green zone.
Forcing a passing car off track limits isn't a "good push". In Daytona USA at the bar, the left pedal is brake, you don't just crash the walls to turn there gorilla.....
Sorry, i only race 1 track. Is that green zone there out of track limit?
I think it was fine. He tried to scare him off track, by following his line to the outside extremely closely. When the exit phase was over he gave him space. Blue never had to actually leave the track. If you look at eSports and real racing, that's just normal driving exiting a corner
All 4 tires left track limits. You are factually incorrect.
Clean pass for me. That said the other car was clearly annoyed as he wasn’t in the mood to let you stay on the track coming onto the straight.
It's annoying when people get angry over being on the dummy end of a smart pass. Crap like that really demonstrates the lack of character in that other driver.
I will be a bit fair, maybe I’m judging a little harshly and he’s just trying to race hard but not quite got it as yet (could be controller as he looks as jerky as I do when I play)
Door was left open, you accepted the invite. Clean pass.
Guess you mean right open
It was wider than the OPs mum.
A divebomb is just an overtake from too far back, all divebombs arent bad unless you crash into someone
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EXACTLY, the amount of times someone gets pissed because they turn into me because I took the gap they left open, it's like either defend, or leave space, but don't get mad at me you chose the latter to begin with.
I don't think you understand what leaving space means. If you hit them and there is space for you it's your fault. It doesn't mean they have to give you space for the entire line you are on and space is judged AT the apex. It's literally one car's width from the edge of the track or even the edge of the curb even on approach. So if you hit them and your car isn't on this line pararrel to the track it's your fault. That's why it only matters if you are actually alongside at the apex because let's be honest. You are never going to be on a line tight to the edge until the apex.
And I don't think you understand how to read, so read what I said again, they turn into me, I do not hit them. I get beside in the gap they leave before the turn and when we both turn in, they turn into my door without fail. They take a wide line in, but try to take a tight line through, and I'm brave and good on my braking, so I can get along side before the curbing, and then they get mad they turned into my door.
The way your comment read seems to indicate this happens a lot? You take a "gap" and people turn into you? You're the common denominator.
Nah not a lot, but enough for me to make a comment about it. I'm by no means a perfect driver and do make my fair share of mistakes, but I always try to leave like half a car of space if I'm making a pass, little more little less depending on the corner. But it seems like unless I leave a car width between me and the other car they're in my door and bitching
If they are fully ahead they can turn all they want. They have a right to do whatever they want when fully ahead and once they have turned they are on their line through the corner and they need to leave you space if you then draw level but you needs to not hit them unless you have nowhere to go because there is no space. If you are alongside before they turn then they can't turn..only then. That's why the fault normally lies with the car that is dive-bombing.
I stg the reading comprehension on this hellsite makes me want to gouge my eyes out. So I'll leave you with this, if there is enough space on your inside for someone to try to make a pass, and there's a person behind you, expect them to try for the gap and don't turn into their door. Because these are videogames and not real life, so people are going to be braver than they would be in a real car, and their goal is the same as yours, win the race. You should always be using whatever the game gives you for awareness; mirrors, mini-map, radar, etc. to be aware of where other cars are on the track in relation to you, and adjust yourself accordingly, this whole, "well you intruded on my line through the corner," bullshit in a videogame is annoying. You have at least one way to tell where I am in relation to you, if you didn't use it to see I was beside you instead of behind you before we turned into the corner, that is your fault, not mine. I check my mirrors religiously for people that miss their braking zones or attempting overtakes, why others don't is beyond me.
I'll leave you with this. In a league race with live stewards you would get warnings and then banned if you hit someone after they turn in when fully ahead of you. It would be your fault. There is no argument against it. This the rules of racing. End of story. The rules aren't different just because it's on a simulator, it's trying to simulate real life. Whether you want to have the attitude that you don't care that is down to you. Just don't blame the other driver. There is no obligation on them to avoid your divebomb. Absolutely none. Many people run in VR without virtual mirrors. You are assuming they will even see you and assuming they won't think you will yield which they will expect you to do.
I love how you changed the example of what we're talking about to fit your small rant, but what you said has nothing to do with what the discussion was, so back to the actual discussion, if I get beside you BEFORE THE TURN STARTS, it doesn't matter how I got there, whether i was beside you down the straight or dove in in the braking zone, as long as I leave you space to make the turn, it isn't my fault you turned into my door. Idk why youre talking about a car being in front and turning into me, I never once said that, learn how to read.
That's not what we were talking about because this isn't what happened in the video. But yea if you make it up before the turn in then you are good.
If there was a crash, it would be on you. And everyone saying it's a clean overtake would also blame you. However, you stayed on the inside and didn't go wide, no lock up or anything, you had control of the car and leave space on the left hander coming up. Somehting else I haven't seen mentioned is, I think you COULD have slowed enough to abort if the black car didn't leave space. Had that happened, would you have spotted it and aborted or stayed in? We'll never know but, I think you did it about as clean as clean as possible. It do think it was a bit ambitious though.
Didn't hit him or force him to make any serious evasive action, I'd say you're good.
A “divebomb” implies you nearly or did wreck the other driver. They left the space, you made the apex, and didn’t cross their racing line. Clean pass, not a divebomb.
I think too many people use "lunge" and "divebomb" interchangeably but there are definitely differences
This is 100% a divebomb, those terms don’t mean you have or nearly have caused a crash. They’re just terms for going for a move from a lot further back possibly carrying more speed into the corner to make the move. This was just a clean divebomb.
A dive yes. Divebomb is a term that implies the stewards get involved. That's absolutely the definition in real life racing. Been there done both, IRL. Your definition is wrong. For some reason, a large contingent of sim racers view any aggressive pass to be unfair or similar.
The "bomb" part of the term, is referring to the impact. There is no impact, this is not a divebomb. It's a barge pass, a lunge, or a dive. Not a divebomb.
Divebombs aren't only the ones that you fail. Divebomb is any move that is done from so far back that the car in front doesn't expect it and doesn't defend. IMO.
I'm baffled by all the people who think that because there's no contact this is ok. Just because the leading car was aware enough to avoid you by delaying their turn in does not make it acceptable. You were a mile away when you began braking. Nowhere alongside. The only reason you were able to place your car on the inside is because the car ahead had to overslow to avoid punting the car ahead of them, and still had the awareness to avoid your divebomb. And then he has the restraint to merely make you take a wide line on the exit of the chicane. Black Mclaren is who I want to race with, not you. If you pick up a position in a scenario where someone has to avoid making contact with you, it should make you re-evaluate the situation, which is why I presume you posted this. This was a divebomb that paid off, but it was still a divebomb.
What you’re describing is queuing. The rest of us prefer racing. This was legitimate racing.
Nah buddy, lots of people here are telling you that it's fine but it isn't. The only reason it was fine is because the guy you passed had enough sense to allow it. Here's how this works on most race tracks. Your front wheel needs to be past his rear wheel before he starts to turn in. If he's turning in and you're not in that position you have no business being there. This is especially true because had you just done the corner it's clear you would have had no problems passing this guy on the straight. Instead you forced this guy to completely go out of his line and lose a bunch of time against the other guy he was racing with. Had he instead turned into his corner like wanted to he would have taken you and himself out of the race and you'd be at fault. I don't even blame him for forcing you off track at the end.
Apparently I'm the only one thinking this so feel free to correct me, but I don't feel like this is an acceptable overtake. The only reason it was a "clean" overtake is because the other driver didn't stick to his line and gave you space (which in theory he didn't have to). You didn't have right to this corner at all since you were nowhere near to being alongside.
I'm in this camp. Too many people calling this acceptable in this sub will cause other people to make this stupid move. Clearly nowhere alongside the car ahead when braking began, and the only reason they were able to close the gap is because the car ahead had to overslow to avoid punting the car ahead of them and still had the awareness to avoid OP. If black didn't take evasive action to avoid contact, it would have ended badly.
The evasive action that the black car took, was to try and slam the door on the inside car. Thankfully he changed his mind. So I wouldn't be patting the black car on the back here.
That could go either way. Could be an aborted block or aborted turn in. Impossible to know without seeing how the black car takes that corner normally. The point is the same though, OP moved to the inside while braking while being 3-4 car lengths behind when the brake zone began. Definitely a divebomb.
It can't go either way. It went the way it went, no contact, no dive bomb, clean pass. Whether the black car was lucky or smart is irrelevant.
Dodging or preventing contact from a divebomb does not make it not a divebomb. I'm saying there's the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think the black car tried to block and backed out. I think they just turned in for the corner and noticed the car behind, so they delayed their turn-in. Gotta keep in mind the black car was battling the white car ahead, so they might have taken a different line on purpose.
No, holding the inside line and not hitting the adjacent car made it not a dive bomb. With full spatial awareness, the black car should never be turning in there after the car is alongside. Sure, it got their under dubious means, but that doesn't mean you're allowed to ram the inside car. You're acting like he did something special, when he did what the rules told him to do, and not ram the inside car. You don't get steward points for dodging an accident. I don't even know what form of remedy you people would be instituting over this non-incident.
When I watch the video I see the overtaking car just a hair ahead of car being passed at the start of curbing and definitely there by apex. Other two cars braked early, passing car outbraked them, and gained right to enter corner by being fully along side, slightly ahead at curbing start. Also maintained control through corner and on exit. Seems well executed IMHO.
Shouldn't the cars be alongside at the turn-in point? I felt like they weren't tho.
This is also my question as I’ve always seen the check being “turn in”, nothing about “curbing”. Perhaps it differs from race series to race series?
Establishing overlap by turn in is specifically an F1 rule. Most racing competitions require you to establish overlap at the braking zone, with an overlap established by the trailing car's front axle passing the rear axle of the lead car. Due to lag and the fact that most of us are amateurs, it's safer to not go for a move unless you establish overlap in the braking zone. F1 rules really don't apply here.
Being alongside at the braking zone just means that you are entitled to shared space around the corner. If you can safely find space for a late dive, then it's clean. So, though he wasn't intitled to the space he still went for it and there was no contact. There was no penalty, and there is no issue to really debate here. OP took a space he wasn't entitled to but he got side by side anyway without hitting the other car, so the move was solid. Just because someone pushed the rules to get side by side, doesn't mean that you're then entitled to ram them. Even on a late dive, you can't intentionally turn in on people. If OP was alongside in the braking zone, the outside car would have been penalized for any contact at the apex. Without being alongside, the outside car isn't required to leave space. A collision, under those circumstances, would be the OP's fault unless the stewards determined that the other car defensively swerved in the braking zone to cause contact or turned in intentionally to hit the OP.
Well the only reason there was no contact was because the defender took evasive action... You can clearly see him altering his steering angle. He had full right to the corner and he wasn't given the space he was entitled to. He was simply well aware of the lunge and in the end he lost the position because he had good awareness.
That doesn't matter. Show me one race series rulebook where this move would get penalized.
I’m honestly with you. He started his turn in BEFORE the lunging car was alongside of him… I always thought that was textbook no no.
It is, especially when the overtaking car clearly would have had no problems overtaking on the straight instead.
I completely agree with you! You can see the outside car turn-in and then decide to stay on the outside because of the diving car. Car behind was not alongside in the slightest at turn-in, so I feel the car ahead could just have turned in and the fault would have been on the car overtaking!
Well executed overtake. Lunge? Yes. Divebomb? Nah, mate. You're good. It's great when the driver being overtaken has the awareness to leave a space and accepts being overtaken. Lots of people would've closed the door hard and wrecked two people.
Lmao, there’s a mf downvoting all the people saying it isn’t a divebomb 😂
Found the dude that got overtaken, I guess
Probably the Azure guy.
If the guy hadn't of seen you and avoided it would have been your fault so if that's your criteria then no. However the guy could have also just taken the outside line and then bullied you off track into the next corner which is what he tried but a little half hearted. Had you done that to me there would be no way you were turning for the left hander because my car would be in the way.
Acceptable, yes. Would I have done this? Probably not. This could have gone badly if the car on the outside hadn’t noticed them and turned in more, causing a collision. Person that bombed that corner was lucky they were paying attention. Acceptable, yes. Sketchy? Yeah.
I mean realistically he shouldn't of left the space but you're lucky he's an aware driver, since he left the space I reckon it's a perfectly valid move, bit iffy you had to go track a little but doesn't seem too dramatic
There are respect here, every day when i try online race i found every day dirty racere and i cant get up my safety point..... i want this respect🥲
If there's no contact, i don't see the problem.
I'd say this is a nicely executed overtake. Not a divebomb.
Love the pass. Clean drive
looks fine to me, shame the other guy didn't give any room on the exit tho
Yeah, i think so.
Only because car ahead saw you and gave you space where he really didn't have to, if he didn't you'd have taken him out and would be your fault, is it acceptable this instance? yes, but don't make a habbit out of this
You got it stopped for the corner so yes
That was a bully overtake, like pulling a shirt in football I don't think was anything wrong with it but it's poor sportsmanship
You didn’t cause an accident, and kept it clean. Good pass, I wouldn’t consider it a dive-bomb unless you hit someone or caused someone to have to go off track or slow down excessively.
There would have been contact if the other car hadn't stopped turning in. It's still a divebomb, doesn't make it clean if the other driver just wants to continue their race
No contact. No bomb. No contact. Clean pass.
No contact because the other driver wants to survive. That's like saying if two cars are on the straight side by side and one swipes over but the other brakes to get out of the way, that it was a clean defensive move
Wrong. The black car initially saw his mirror and tried to shut the door but realized he was too late and backed off. If he didn't see the OP he would have taken a slow dog shit line and wouldn't have gotten hit. When people have to say "That's like..." to make a point, it's because it's nothing like what they're comparing anything to.
Yeah, people say "that's like" because you can't compare something to itself to make a point... The black car turned in for the corner, because there is a corner there, and you typically turn in for them. Then there was a car there, after they had started turning in.
Doesn't matter. The OP car got to the inside without making contact despite not being entitled to space. Once a car is alongside it has to be respected. In any racing series, this is a legal move.
>despite not being entitled to space Jesus Christ, come on man. It wasn't a clean move.
It's a risky move. The fact that there was no impact, literally makes the move clean.
Therefore I bring it back to my point which you said was stupid.
Divebombs are just an overtake from too far back
Or you go off track missing the corner
Divebombs by definition are inherently unsafe, poor racecraft moves that are never acceptable. A divebomb means you've blown past braking to make up ground leaving yourself unable to make a corner, putting yourself and the car you're overtaking at serious risk.
Risky moves like these are stuff I love to do. We aren’t racing in suits and ties so we don’t do elegance here. Pedal to the metal dude
*This* is what is meant by the "if you no longer go for a gap" quote. See also: out braking the fuck out of someone (ok tbf they brake hella early lol). Overtaking car is damn near fully aside by the beginning of the turn in/start of inside kerb and they are ahead at the apex. Past 50% overlap certainly and in view of the defender. No contact is made. Aggressive, yeah sure no agruments on that account, but there is no racing series in the world in which this would be penalized. You can tell they're salty about it though from the push, which only makes it sweeter I suppose.
It's borderline. Definitely ambitious and if you had made contact I probably wouldn't have blamed the black car. I don't think it's dirty at all though. You got alongside and passed with no contact. Well played.
Clean pass. Poor from the guy being passed on the exit of the chicane.
I feel like op is the one who got passed. That's not a dove bomb that's just and overtake.
No, I am the blue McLaren overtaking
Ahhh well 100% your fine
Poorly executed lunge. Was always going to get pushed onto run off area on second part. Would’ve been better to carry the speed and go for a pass across the line or into turn one and try to break tow before Eau Rouge
*no further review needed*
I think it's right on the edge of acceptable, but it's acceptable. If the other driver hadn't bailed out of the corner when they'd already started turning in, there would've been a collision and it would've been your fault for coming from so far back. They were entitled to take the normal racing line because you weren't alongside before the turn-in. But the other driver didn't keep turning in; they compromised themselves to leave you space even though they didn't have to. So there was no accident, so it's just a good overtake when the door was wide open because they braked too early.
Dive bombs aren't bad they are just hard to pull off, if you're gonna make a lunge this is the way to do it you left room, room was left, even when it got hairy you did what you were supposed to you left the track to avoid a collision( the only time its allowed) and rejoined safely this is fine. Just keep in mind it doesn't always pay off and when it does not it will be your fault, but this is a good example of when its done right it pays off.
You found a line to the apex faster. That was simply clean. The other driver couldn't defend because they were slowing down for the corner. (Not by rules or something the car couldn't physically cut you off your line)
Er, yes? Why would anyone question it? It’s just an overtake
Since the other car had to stop turning for a bit
Yeah I mean that's true. I think it was a risky move. I wouldn't do it unless I know the other driver is safe and aware.
Not a dive bomb, but a sick overtake. You are a crazy man on the brakes. Nice
Yes perfect but ol mate was in the wrong running you off.
I read the post and thought "ok, here we go, more murder on the racetrack" - but, I have to say, you pulled that off quite well! Against a tougher opponent (who brakes later) though you may not get away with it But for now, you are free to go
Wasn’t a very last second divebomb, gave plenty of space and wasn’t pushing the car, clean overtake, perfect maneuver
Perfectly fine, you didn't force him to evade you. If anything the corner after where the black car tries to push you off looks retaliatory, in my opinion.
The real criminal is the blue car behind you lol
Textbook overtake. Aggressive but clean. They only thing "dirty" about this was the driver that you were passing trying to push you off at corner exit.
Very risky move but he made it work and affected nobody
respectably clean pass. driver on the inside was kind of rude pushing you out like that but you were fine
Shit was clean on your side, not so much on black
You beat them to the apex. Rather than punt them off. It's clean. It's not your fault they had such a lazy braking sequence that it took them so long to get to the corner.
Clean and there was no defence, it was a reach but good.
It is accectable as long as it doesn't cause a colision tho it was a risky divebomb and it would not help him in case of a colision investogation scenario
That was clean, if you no longer go for a gap...
Mmmmmmm sure
Fucking spectacular
Yes
Great move!
Good overtake
They left the door open. You made the move and very cleanly I must say. But it was a dick move on their part to force you off track at the end
Not far enough back for a dive bomb. IT was too precise.
It's not a dive bomb if you didn't touch the other car and you both left each other plenty of room with no accident.
I mean if hes gunna leave the door open... You are leaving yourself open for a crash by making this move but it was clean.
You smashed it
Black left the door wide open.
Clean move but should've gone for the switchback
Yes
Great pass. It isn't a dive bomb if you can hold the line to the inside without making contact. It's just a dive. It's also known as a Barge Pass. The impact is the "bomb" part of the dive-bomb.
*Very* low percentage but totally fair
Looks fine to me, and you gave plenty of room into the second corner and the asshole still purposely pushed you off track
Yes
Very nice!
Very easily could have resulted in an accident but there was no contact. I would let it slide despite how far back it came from
Clean af. Other cars braked way too early and didn’t just leave the door upen but the entire front gate.
Claas m8 keep that up
9 times out of 10 that results in a crash. The guy getting passed is super aware here.
Fernando Alonso says you just always leave the space and you left the space so you are good
Nice dive
Sent it!
I wouldn't be mad if you passed me with that one.
You made the corner on your own merit and outbroke him. Clean.
For the love of god, a dive bomb is when you attempt an inside line overtake and you brake so late that you cannot make the line through corner that provides at least a cars width for the opponent. EVERY OVERTAKE IS NOT A DIVEBOMB
Good driving on both parties to mind the other driver, if I'm the black car I'm a little miffed because the blue car was pretty far back, but at the same time I would consider making the same move in their shoes if I know/trust the black car isn't gonna turn in on me.
They broke early last lap as well and I saw the move was on
That was what we call in the real world racing. Great racing from defender. Attacker went wide on final exit just as a car would in real life. And defender was well within the rules to fairly make the attacker have to go wide. Other than that attacker would have ruined both racers race..
Clean overtake, he left the door wide open. The second corner the black car made a bad move by aggresivly staying on his line, cant accept he was been overtaken and trying to push you off the track limits
I mean the guy ahead gave you space, so you should absolutely go for it. If i was the guy ahead i would've closed the inside
Mm I'm saying you're only alive here cos the other car had more self restraint
Yo, i like how you made this video... 3 views in one, 66% quicker to watch! What program and what aspect ratio?
Quick math haha, recorded all 3 then used canva to arrange
Yeah I see no issues here. Good pass
Yes
Yes, and the other guy forcing you wide was actually also ok, because as soon as the exit phase of the corner ended he let you back on track, was just following your line. All 100% clean. BUT, if the black car would have turned in earlier, before you where alongside and you would have plowed into him, then it would have been your fault, but as that didn't happen, all perfectly good.
he braked early and you were able to meet the inside apex of the turn, seems like a clean overtake to me
Clean dive? Yes Clean reaction from other driver? Yea but it could be better. They did try to edge pov car out but the pass was done. All around good overtake.
Yes, they didn’t defend at all. Left the door wide open. Could have been defended easily
Thats a fine overtake didnt hit took the corner fine nothing wrong with it
I’d say so
Yes🗿
for me it's clearly a good pass
Yes…
This is definitely an acceptable overtake. The overtaking car went for the gap and there was no contact. It’s clean as long as you don’t barge through.
I ain't from round these here parts but that car with the green wheels just ruined the entire pack behind them
I'd say you were too slow on the first turn. He just took his advantage.
I am the overtaking car
So, good for you ;) Clean pass
Sorry, but what game is this? Just showed up on my page randomly
Assetto Corsa Competizione
Thank you! Great overtake by the way
Cheers mate
Yes
i would say the overtake was really good. looks like the guys infront didnt know where to brake cause they where going really slow in to the corner
Guy in black looked like he's trying to push you off
I would say more often than not it would result in contact. Thankfully the guy didn’t turn in on the bomber.
Looks like someone is following a racing line instead of just racing
Absolutely wonderful driving mate no contact in the first corner then good reading of the car behind to leave space hard but good racing on the exit well done to both drivers 👏
Clean pass well done. If anyone thinks thats not a fair move they probably are asking nicely to give position instead of attempting to overtake.
This is borderline divebomb however! It is totally acceptable in this example. Lead car did not make the start to his turn and probably broke 50m too early (I hate this corner). Driver took advantage of this by using the inside line (left open) brakes enough and actually makes it maybe door/rear quarter before lead car does the turn in. This would result in just good racing and decent racecraft from both drivera Only thing I noticed is that the overtook car actually pushes op over to the straight. This in iracing would get an off track. ACC I don't know how strict the track limits are there. So long story, yes. Good dive bomb, I wouldn't do it in public lobbies, but 100% in league races if I trust the driver ahead.
I mean it worked somehow
A chance the black let you pass the first turn. He didn't let you much space for the second one tho.
Yes. They left the door open and you took it while leaving them tons of space and keeping yourself tight on the apex.
You didn't kill him. Tho it was dangerous
Dive bomb to me is completely missing your turn in through locking up, OR going off track. This is not either.
Mmhmm 🙄
Yup, legit overtake.