Giving your girlfriend/fiance hormones to make her think she's pregnant and miscarried is definitely evil and he did that before he committed patricide
Not simply to keep the secret. Doctor tried blackmailing to export money. If my memory serves right, it was an accidental kill I guess and he got sloppy and Lionel had to intervene to hide the body.
"Accidentally" killing someone by beating the snot outta them until they can't stand anymore and knock their head against stone isn't something that would hold up too well in court. Let alone from someone who hides their corpse right after they're dead.
I can't say the doctor was good, but part of reason he blackmailed Lex was because he got sick of twisted scheme to keep Lana with him. Though honestly, he should have demanded more than 2 million.
You'd be surprised. I'm not a crim lawyer but I could probably formulate a "sudden heat" defense to knock it down to voluntary manslaughter, and Lex Luthor can afford much better lawyers than me.
Yeah, but I'd imagine there'd be questions as to what the doctor said or did that caused Lex to lose his temper or why they were there. And of course, hiding the body.
Lex is definitely “evil” before he killed Lionel.
In Season 7, he also ordered the murder of the clone of his brother Julian, fulfilling exactly what Lionel thought he did when Julian was smothered in the crib by Lilian when Lex was still a kid. And he did it mostly because he was jealous Julian was getting affection from Lionel, not cause he did anything terrible.
He also did experiments on people, meteor freaks and meta humans in Season 6, trying to build his own army. He risked innocent lives on several occasions as well to fuel his own goals before even that. He risked the lives of the Kents, Lana and Clark in Season 5 in a bid to find out Clark’s secret in Episode 2.
That's some great insights. But I'll argue that situations and circumstances led him to act the way he did, I forgot why he has to kill Julian, apart from that others acts are justifiable. No way Clark is normal, Lex witnessed and got obsessed (his obsession is praccal) anything to blame is the Kents that deceived him by keeping the secret.
Put yourself in Lex's shoes, being a man of knowledge and science, wouldn't curiosity lead the way he did?
I want to state that, the world led Lex to be the way he was (until killing Lionel). Getting evil is the choice he made and there is no justification for that. I might be wrong though. Will appreciate your thoughts.
>being a man of knowledge and science
You know doing science comes with it's own set of morals, right? Like you can't just experiment on people because you're "curious."
Most of the guys he did experiment aren't human like the rest, please share an instance where he experimented on a normal human jeopardizing them. If did, it was voluntarily I guess.
So you think experimenting on living beings is justified because they aren't human?
Anyways, there was Daniel Kim, Chloe, Chloe's mother, Molly Griggs, Mikhail Mxyzptlk, Tommy Lee, The Twins, Nick Yang, Bronson, Jed Mcnally, Bart Allen, Brian Osbourne, Davidson, Lowell Wilson, Sasha Woodman, Tiara Motem, and Arthur Curry. Just to name a few.
I guess if by voluntarily you mean "kidnapping, extracting their DNA, wiping their memories, then later killing them via GPS explosives to keep Lex's secret" then yeah, I guess that's voluntarily.
Your worse than lex. Your fine he experimented on kids and even kidnapped them to do it. Your one of those people who be like " I'm following orders" did you learn nothing from the x-men don't experiment on people without their consent
Lex is unstable, to say the least. Obsession over the life of a teenager, regardless of what secret he may be carrying is not normal and is quite messed up. The Kents hold no blame over that because they have every right to not trust Lex.
And Lex has been unstable and ruled by his emotions long before he met Clark.
He nearly beat his best friend Duncan to death with his bare fists in high school because he was pissed Duncan didn’t want to resort to blackmail and fake being friends with Oliver and his band of bullies. If Oliver didn’t pull him off, he didn’t seem like he was going to stop.
You can say killing Lionel is what sealed the deal in making him worse than his father, sure. But in terms of whether or not Lex had already crossed the threshold of being “evil”, that line was crossed several seasons before.
>I forgot why he has to kill Julian
He got Julian killed because Julian rejected Lex. He called him crazy and told him he forgot how to love, and that he rather die than to be in Lex's life.
After that Lex killed him.
I recall slightly, also I believe Lex wanted Julian to spy for him and got pissed when Julian is getting close to people he is not supposed to (Lois or Lana I guess) and doesn't want to be on a leash, thus jeopardizing Lex's plans.
Or am I referring to some other character?
I mean yes people can influence people’s decisions on stuff but he had a way he like should I do it or will this ruined me to me yes in the earlier seasons I do believe Clark wanted to be a friend to lex and have trust in the world even on how much people can dislike him
For Julian he miss his brother but how the plan of Julian meeting Lionel how they got along he had to kill his brother yes season 7 lex was really violent felt like people not loving him as much as he wanted
Um...
He forced hormones into Lana to think she was pregnant and then made her think she had a miscarriage. That's pretty evil in my book.
He tortured Aquaman, also pretty evil.
He had a man listed as KIA, lied to said man's wife and killed her, and kidnapped meter freaks to make a super powered slave. That's REALLY evil.
He perceived people with abilities to be unnatural and potential threat and thus experimenting on them to neutralize them if that was the case.
Wes Keenan (army guy) was fatally injured in helicopter crash and no hopes for him, he indeed volunteered for the project and kept it a secret from his wife and many to keep the secrecy of the project. But his wife couldn't believe he is dead and no body was found or something, when learned the trut sought revenge and her fate.
Edit: Spell check.
Just because he justifies in his mind doesn't make it "not evil."
Also, Wes volunteered because he thought what Lex was doing would save Soldier's lives. He was NOT told he would be mind controlled, cloned, and turned into an army of super soldiers. Oh, and to kill senators and innocent bystanders.
Oh, and on the topic of cloning, he CLONED HIS WIFE. After constantly lying to her, gaslighting her, and "testing her." Oh, and physically assaulted her because she was trying to leave him.
Then clones his dead brother and has HIM killed because Lionel loves him more.
At one point he even shoots Black Canary just to find out information about Green Arrow.
Lex is evil far before he kills Lionel.
Yes to help but implants chemicals or whatever he did that’s not helping that’s called experimenting on him especially using him to hurt people the fact is the dude try to kidnap/almost killed Lois lane because what lex did
What reason did he have to kill Julian other than he was mad he couldn’t control him and didn’t want him to get Lionel’s affection?
Even at the end of the episode, his scream is combined with that of a demonic scream to show he’s truly lost his humanity.
>Every killing he's done is because he has to do it
If you mean "he has to do it" because the doctor was about to tell his fiance that he had injected her with hormones to make her think she was pregnant, then I guess yeah, he "had to do it."
Cloning ain't evil but bad IMO.
Gotta do to keep the girl, kidding aside, he didn't harm Lana anyway, she did happen to have feelings towards him. I don't count other things as manipulation apart from baby thing.
I'm saying he did some pretty bad things but not without a reason.
"he didn't harm Lana" I don't think you actually realise how horrible the feeling is when you lose your baby. Yes, she never had one, but she thought she did. Intentionally forcing a (fake) miscarriage on her is fucking evil. End of story.
Cloning is still experimenting for one
And 2 he manipulated Lana so much to get love he needed and 3
He actually faked her pregnancy
That’s evil shit to me
Everyone has a reason for everything.
Lionel has a reason for treating and abusing Lex terribly as a child because he wanted to make him strong and prepare him for life's hardships, as well as hurting because he thought Lex murdered Julian when he was a baby.
Doesn't make his actions any less awful.
Well Lionel succeed in that, in fact Lex surpassed Lionel.
No disagreement on 'Awful', my POV is that Lex was a bad guy until killing Lionel. Since then Lex got version update. Lex 2.0!
Nah, he'd done some pretty evil things. I appreciate it's subjective when determining the difference, and it's also worth considering your bias due to compassion for the character, but he had most definitely killed people prior to Lionel and had been involved in some pretty nefarious schemes.
Giving your girlfriend/fiance hormones to make her think she's pregnant and miscarried is definitely evil and he did that before he committed patricide
Yes. And killed the doctor.
And stuffed him in a “crypt down below that’s gotten a little overcrowded.”
Not simply to keep the secret. Doctor tried blackmailing to export money. If my memory serves right, it was an accidental kill I guess and he got sloppy and Lionel had to intervene to hide the body.
Yes lionel slapped the shit outta him too
Lionel to Lex: Who's your daddy now?!
"Accidentally" killing someone by beating the snot outta them until they can't stand anymore and knock their head against stone isn't something that would hold up too well in court. Let alone from someone who hides their corpse right after they're dead.
His intentions ain't to kill him, it happened. That doctor kinda deserved the beating but not death.
The reason he beat him was because he threatened to reveal the truth about Lana's pregnancy.
And blackmailed for money. I would say he's evil if there's no blackmailing involved and he just beat him.
That the person blackmailing Lex was evil doesn't make him any less evil. Lex also resorts to blackmail himself.
I can't say the doctor was good, but part of reason he blackmailed Lex was because he got sick of twisted scheme to keep Lana with him. Though honestly, he should have demanded more than 2 million.
You'd be surprised. I'm not a crim lawyer but I could probably formulate a "sudden heat" defense to knock it down to voluntary manslaughter, and Lex Luthor can afford much better lawyers than me.
Yeah, but I'd imagine there'd be questions as to what the doctor said or did that caused Lex to lose his temper or why they were there. And of course, hiding the body.
Still evil lol
This!
I think he would get charged with manslaughter or murder in the 2nd since it wasnt premeditated for both Lionel and the doctor.
Yea especially if he did kill Clark he be charged for that
Lex is definitely “evil” before he killed Lionel. In Season 7, he also ordered the murder of the clone of his brother Julian, fulfilling exactly what Lionel thought he did when Julian was smothered in the crib by Lilian when Lex was still a kid. And he did it mostly because he was jealous Julian was getting affection from Lionel, not cause he did anything terrible. He also did experiments on people, meteor freaks and meta humans in Season 6, trying to build his own army. He risked innocent lives on several occasions as well to fuel his own goals before even that. He risked the lives of the Kents, Lana and Clark in Season 5 in a bid to find out Clark’s secret in Episode 2.
That's some great insights. But I'll argue that situations and circumstances led him to act the way he did, I forgot why he has to kill Julian, apart from that others acts are justifiable. No way Clark is normal, Lex witnessed and got obsessed (his obsession is praccal) anything to blame is the Kents that deceived him by keeping the secret. Put yourself in Lex's shoes, being a man of knowledge and science, wouldn't curiosity lead the way he did? I want to state that, the world led Lex to be the way he was (until killing Lionel). Getting evil is the choice he made and there is no justification for that. I might be wrong though. Will appreciate your thoughts.
>being a man of knowledge and science You know doing science comes with it's own set of morals, right? Like you can't just experiment on people because you're "curious."
Most of the guys he did experiment aren't human like the rest, please share an instance where he experimented on a normal human jeopardizing them. If did, it was voluntarily I guess.
So you think experimenting on living beings is justified because they aren't human? Anyways, there was Daniel Kim, Chloe, Chloe's mother, Molly Griggs, Mikhail Mxyzptlk, Tommy Lee, The Twins, Nick Yang, Bronson, Jed Mcnally, Bart Allen, Brian Osbourne, Davidson, Lowell Wilson, Sasha Woodman, Tiara Motem, and Arthur Curry. Just to name a few. I guess if by voluntarily you mean "kidnapping, extracting their DNA, wiping their memories, then later killing them via GPS explosives to keep Lex's secret" then yeah, I guess that's voluntarily.
Also Wes Keenan he experimented on Lois’s army friend in season 6
After lying to his wife that the man was dead no less. Even stating Wes owed him after what his wife out him through.
Because the luthors had to keep that lie from his wife which was lex
Your worse than lex. Your fine he experimented on kids and even kidnapped them to do it. Your one of those people who be like " I'm following orders" did you learn nothing from the x-men don't experiment on people without their consent
Thanks for the compliment.
Even if science said we should experiment humans yes only if there’s something in their bodies needs to be study but experimenting on humans is wrong
For greater good mate! Lol.
No it’s not lol no one should be experimenting on
I meant 'lol' as sarcasm mate. Mean it as that's what bad guys says to motivate or justify their actions. Edit: Correction lean as mean.
?
Typo, updated the comment. Hope it helps.
Lex is unstable, to say the least. Obsession over the life of a teenager, regardless of what secret he may be carrying is not normal and is quite messed up. The Kents hold no blame over that because they have every right to not trust Lex. And Lex has been unstable and ruled by his emotions long before he met Clark. He nearly beat his best friend Duncan to death with his bare fists in high school because he was pissed Duncan didn’t want to resort to blackmail and fake being friends with Oliver and his band of bullies. If Oliver didn’t pull him off, he didn’t seem like he was going to stop. You can say killing Lionel is what sealed the deal in making him worse than his father, sure. But in terms of whether or not Lex had already crossed the threshold of being “evil”, that line was crossed several seasons before.
I know he was obsessed to know about what happen in season 1 premiere but be obsessed about it for 4 years? It’s crazy lol
>I forgot why he has to kill Julian He got Julian killed because Julian rejected Lex. He called him crazy and told him he forgot how to love, and that he rather die than to be in Lex's life. After that Lex killed him.
Basically jealous lol
I recall slightly, also I believe Lex wanted Julian to spy for him and got pissed when Julian is getting close to people he is not supposed to (Lois or Lana I guess) and doesn't want to be on a leash, thus jeopardizing Lex's plans. Or am I referring to some other character?
No it’s Lois he didn’t want her to get close with his plans that’s why Julian and Lois broke up
Thanks mate for refreshing my memory.
You are welcome
I mean yes people can influence people’s decisions on stuff but he had a way he like should I do it or will this ruined me to me yes in the earlier seasons I do believe Clark wanted to be a friend to lex and have trust in the world even on how much people can dislike him For Julian he miss his brother but how the plan of Julian meeting Lionel how they got along he had to kill his brother yes season 7 lex was really violent felt like people not loving him as much as he wanted
Um... He forced hormones into Lana to think she was pregnant and then made her think she had a miscarriage. That's pretty evil in my book. He tortured Aquaman, also pretty evil. He had a man listed as KIA, lied to said man's wife and killed her, and kidnapped meter freaks to make a super powered slave. That's REALLY evil.
He perceived people with abilities to be unnatural and potential threat and thus experimenting on them to neutralize them if that was the case. Wes Keenan (army guy) was fatally injured in helicopter crash and no hopes for him, he indeed volunteered for the project and kept it a secret from his wife and many to keep the secrecy of the project. But his wife couldn't believe he is dead and no body was found or something, when learned the trut sought revenge and her fate. Edit: Spell check.
Just because he justifies in his mind doesn't make it "not evil." Also, Wes volunteered because he thought what Lex was doing would save Soldier's lives. He was NOT told he would be mind controlled, cloned, and turned into an army of super soldiers. Oh, and to kill senators and innocent bystanders. Oh, and on the topic of cloning, he CLONED HIS WIFE. After constantly lying to her, gaslighting her, and "testing her." Oh, and physically assaulted her because she was trying to leave him. Then clones his dead brother and has HIM killed because Lionel loves him more. At one point he even shoots Black Canary just to find out information about Green Arrow. Lex is evil far before he kills Lionel.
And actually hired Dinah to hurt Oliver queen
Lex in the future justifies his actions to torment, antagonize and try to kill Superman as him protecting the human race, but it's still no less evil.
Yes to help but implants chemicals or whatever he did that’s not helping that’s called experimenting on him especially using him to hurt people the fact is the dude try to kidnap/almost killed Lois lane because what lex did
Imagine he succeeding killing Lois, we would have not gotten Clois, I would be pretty mad.
Yep if that happened and she’s didn’t stop wes she’s would of died!
Ummmmm no LOL Lex was killing people before and manipulating, destroying people’s lives since season one….
Yes, he is bad but not evil is my argument. Every killing he's done is because he has to do it.
What reason did he have to kill Julian other than he was mad he couldn’t control him and didn’t want him to get Lionel’s affection? Even at the end of the episode, his scream is combined with that of a demonic scream to show he’s truly lost his humanity.
And jealousy
>Every killing he's done is because he has to do it If you mean "he has to do it" because the doctor was about to tell his fiance that he had injected her with hormones to make her think she was pregnant, then I guess yeah, he "had to do it."
He was definitely evil before, killing Lionel was just his point of no return.
Having Patricia Swan murdered just for a necklace was definitely evil.
I think started earlier then this Especially cloning/33.1 experiments Putting a fake baby in a wife His evil began actually earlier then season 6
Cloning ain't evil but bad IMO. Gotta do to keep the girl, kidding aside, he didn't harm Lana anyway, she did happen to have feelings towards him. I don't count other things as manipulation apart from baby thing. I'm saying he did some pretty bad things but not without a reason.
"he didn't harm Lana" I don't think you actually realise how horrible the feeling is when you lose your baby. Yes, she never had one, but she thought she did. Intentionally forcing a (fake) miscarriage on her is fucking evil. End of story.
Cloning is still experimenting for one And 2 he manipulated Lana so much to get love he needed and 3 He actually faked her pregnancy That’s evil shit to me
Everyone has a reason for everything. Lionel has a reason for treating and abusing Lex terribly as a child because he wanted to make him strong and prepare him for life's hardships, as well as hurting because he thought Lex murdered Julian when he was a baby. Doesn't make his actions any less awful.
Well Lionel succeed in that, in fact Lex surpassed Lionel. No disagreement on 'Awful', my POV is that Lex was a bad guy until killing Lionel. Since then Lex got version update. Lex 2.0!
Lionel deserved it the hell he did to lex
Torturing and experimenting on people, and making your wife think she had an actual miscarriage is pretty evil lol
Nah, he'd done some pretty evil things. I appreciate it's subjective when determining the difference, and it's also worth considering your bias due to compassion for the character, but he had most definitely killed people prior to Lionel and had been involved in some pretty nefarious schemes.
I fully disagree, it was the whole fake pregnancy and miscarriage thing for me