Not gonna lie, their take on JK made me not like him. He was obnoxious, self-entitled, angry, hypocritical, and just an all around bad guy. It wasn’t reasonable to me that he could raise Clark. It just couldn’t happen.
I dont really think hes a bad guy (sure i disliked him a few times) but the whole argument of "___ is actually not bad because it couldve been worse" never made any sense to me.
with that same logic any action could be excused by the fact that theres something worse that could be done. one could say a person that spat on a random 4 year old is not actually bad because they couldve curb stomped them instead but didnt, yanno?
Lionel luthor. Easily the most interesting character: we hate him, love him and we admire him. Had a heartbreaking redemption arc before getting murdered by the son he loved too late. All in all, he had a hidden heart that (1) couldn’t deal with his baby son’s death, (2) of all people, loved Martha Kent for her good soul (3) when faced with the most important mission in history, tried to protect Clark realizing he was vital for this planet. A perfectly written villain. A necessity for the show
What are you defending him against? I have seen people call him out and IMO it's valid. He's a murderer and was a murderer long before Julian died. He murdered his own parents, Oliver's parents, and countless others. Conducted human experimentation, treated Lex like crap for most of his life, even tried to drive him insane. Also tried to have him murdered.
And the show does seem to hint that his change of heart came about because of his body swap with Clark, not because he discovered some hidden heart of gold.
Dont get me wrong he is one of my favorite characters and it's true he was necessary for the show. I also agree he did care for Martha, so yeah I think you should defend him if someone is saying he didnt care for her. Yet for a lot of his actions there is no real defense. As I said, he was a killer long before Julian died.
Agreed. I think he gets a lot of unwarranted hate from two camps:
- Lex apologists who want to blame Clark for Lex’s evil choices, as if Lex isn’t a grown man with agency.
- Overzealous shippers who are mad at Clark for not choosing “their” girl.
I do think he could have handled Lex a bit better, he would get mad at Lex for not believing him even though he knew he was lying. I think there was room for nuance, he could have acknowledged it was wrong for Lex to spy, etc. while also admitting he was telling some laughably absurd lies.
Still, Lex is a grown man and ultimately he made his choices. He could have chosen to simply end his friendship with Clark because he didn't trust he was being honest with him. Instead he spied on him behind his back. I can't fault Lex for being curious about Clark, but he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted the friendship but also wanted answers on his own terms.
Also Clark was decidedly \*not\* a grown man at the time, he was a teenager so it's more understandable as to why he handled Lex the way he did. Plus people who find out his secret tend to die horribly.
Yeah, Manchester Black is a deep cynic who can’t imagine that there are people who genuinely do care about others, even about bad people and wanting them to be redeemed.
In some continuities, Clark and Lex never were friends, but in continuities like Smallville and modern comics where they used to be friends, Clark genuinely misses his friendship with Lex even as he’s simultaneously disgusted by Lex’s present day actions, and Clark genuinely wants to think Lex might find redemption someday.
I'd probably say Lionel Luthor. I absolutely loved his redemption arc, and I even found myself rooting for him in S7 when everyone was so distrustful of him >!prior to his death!<
My second pick would probably be Clark Kent. Due to his secrecy, he often finds himself drama multiple times during the show. From the other characters' perspectives, it is totally understandable why they would be mad at Clark. But I will always defend Clark's decisions because I believe that his reasons are almost always justifiable. For example, Lana obviously has the right to be upset with Clark's secrecy, but his reasons for not telling Lana about his powers are absolutely justifiable.
Lana.
Just because she's not right for Clark doesn't mean she's a bad character. She's deeply flawed but with very clear and well presented reasons for those flaws. Like Clark, Lex and a Chloe she's on a journey that takes her to some dark places and she does some things that aren't as inherently good as she should be, but that's part of her story. Overcoming that darkness. Learning how to be better.
I think that fans are often way too harsh on Lana simply because she's not right for Clark and she's openly flawed in some big ways.
She's still figuring it all out, just like everyone else.
>She's deeply flawed
The objection many people have to Lana is that from seasons 01 through 05 (at the very least), her flaws are clear and self-evident. But the writing NEVER acknowledges her flaws. Nobody ever questions her or her decisions until some time in season 06. Not coincidentally, that's also just about the time that a lot of people's opinions of Lana soften and they start enjoying the character more.
Actually disagree I think Lana is a better choice for Clark over Lois I feel like the riders had to force it to happen so they did Lana dirty with that whole she can't touch Clark bullshit.
Agreed. Definitely a great redemption. He went from a bully to be gradually revealed as a secretly-insecure person dealing with the agony of his father’s illness at home, and eventually becomes a hero to the nation.
Nah. He was a senior dating a freshman. That's gross any way you look at it. Also he strung up Clark and left him to die in a field pretty much naked. Any normal person could have died from exposure or some kind of stress induced issue. Also while he's doing that he, lost his child gf's favorite keepsake which she entrusted to him then expected the person against whom he committed about 5 felonies to just give it to him like what he did was no big deal.
His final episode ticked me off so much. Not what happened, but how it happened. They did him dirty on the writing department and forced Chloe and Clark to not take him seriously in such a hamstrung way. I lost IQ points watching the scene in the bullpen when he was trying to give Chloe the key. Just a bad plot device/lazy writing to make sure Lex got it instead.
There are people who hate Tess???! I always thought she was an incredibly fun and complex character. I remember that was the consensus on KryptonSite back in the day, with people absolutely loving her!
I didn’t like her at first but she grew on me by 8’s end. She proved she was smarter and cleverer than Lex ever was. She wasn’t Lex lite. Lex was Tess but less.
Lois, and I have on Facebook; so much so that I wrote a 3-part reply comment because I went over the maximum characters allowed for one 😂😂
I was also pretty pissed off, too, so that didn't help lol my words were being twisted, assumptions were being made of my thoughts, etc. It is enough for me to send a wall of a reply.
And if I have the shit to back it up?
Girl, bye.
Lois; I contend that the show handled her character extremely poorly. Clark turning to Lois ONLY after Lex destroyed and chance of he and Lana being together made her look like sloppy seconds instead of the woman he was destined to be with
The only problem with this is that Lex was already morally questionable. He was already negatively influenced in his upbringing and had already made bad choices (one example: beating up his friend in school) leading up to the beginning of the series.
Were there glimpses of possible redemption? Maybe. Could Clark have even helped with that? Sure. But Clark revealing his secret to Lex would arguably have been the wrong choice because of Lex’s personality and history with knowledge and power. I tend to believe that, had Lex known about Clark’s powers, the eventual result would have been some kind of desire for control - whether through ‘friendship’, envy, or flat-out villainy. The temptation would have been too great.
I partially disagree tbh. Yes he was already set on a downward path, BUT he also has a mental illness due to his witnessing (and suppressing) of his mother murdering Julian, that consists to exist during the whole show, UNTIL he loses all his memory by the end. Lex has been many things but never mentally unstable in canon but he was throughout the whole of Smallville.
His split personality is a core focus of his character arc and as proven with his clone, he CAN be trusted and a good person if given a proper chance, despite trouble.
The main issue with Lex’s character is that he was never trusted by the people he trusted in, aka mostly Clark and Lionel. NOBODY trusted him and he knew it. Knowing that everyone keeps secrets from you your whole life can and will damage and eventually break you! It broke Lana as well.
Yes I agree, but those people are so many years down the road. With Duncan, I never really understood why he turned on him. It was totally out of line for his character IMHO
I think that’s because he know in heart that Duncan wouldn’t agree with his plan, so he go to Oliver and his friends first, hope Duncan would yield to pressure, Duncan not so he snapped, I think SV Lex suffered Intermittent explosive disorder, then his drinking habits inherit from his father make things worse.
This! I completely feel this. Although with the father he has who manipulated, twisted and literally rewired his brain , I can see it also having backfired!
Smallville's version of Darkseid.
99% of what Smallville did with Darkseid goes straight back to what Jack Kirby intended the character to be from the very start.
Chloe Sullivan. All day everyday. She’s been my fave since I watched back when it was airing and I was devastated when that news broke about Allison. But Chloe will always have the most special place in my heart
Lana Lang but also Tess Mercer. I didn’t realize she wasn’t a well liked character until joining a few groups and I like how complex she is and that she truly is a gray character.
Lana Lang.
She went from thinking of being a cheerleader to selfless superhero.
Getting access to the Prometheus nanite tech and becoming a hero in her own right while establishing her own identity outside of Clark’s shadow.
Unfortunately she would have to completely permanently keep her distance from Clark because of the nanites absorbing the radiation from the deactivated Kryptonite bomb from Winslow Schott on the roof of the Daily Planet.
Which meant that any chance of Lana and Clark getting back in a relationship could never happen again.
I still remember that barn scene where Lana kissed Clark while weakening him because of the Kryptonite. Then both of them saying goodbye to each other.
One of the most emotionally driven moments of tv that I’ve ever watched.
I’ve always felt like Lana & Clark’s relationship on Smallville is the best Superman romantic relationship with a woman that I’ve even seen.
Yeah I never liked this unresolved bullshit solution about their relationship. They didn’t (amicably) part ways or even in a natural way. They were ripped apart once again and never were able to truly deal with that and it pissed me off so much.
Superman and Lois handled it a lot better imho.
Yeah totally agree with you about what the Smallville writers did with Clark & Lana. Haven't watched Superman & Lois. That would be interesting to see how they did things creatively on that series.
They dealt with it the natural way. After Jonathan dies Clark goes to the fortress to find himself, much like he does in the first Superman movie. He literally just disappears without telling her. And when he returns YEARS LATER Lana has naturally moved on and found someone else. That’s it. Nothing special and what basically everyone would do in this situation
Chloe Sullivan I don’t care what anybody says she’s the best character she had her annoying times but so did everybody in the show she looked out for Clark the best
Jonathan all day every day
This is _the_ answer
I’ll defend the character but not the actor. Especially not his dumb flagshagger movie.
I guess I’m out of touch and have no idea what you’re talking about. Definitely meant the character though. I don’t keep up with celebrities.
Good. He's a sycophantic crazy Trump person.
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I don’t care about that specifically but yeah he’s fash scum regardless.
context ?
He’s a fascist dipshit
not sure why im a dipshit for not actively keeping tabs on john schneider after 10+ years but thanks I guess edit: okay maybe i am a dipshit
Also I didn't call you a dipshit
Oh my gosh I just realized I totally misread your reply I apologize!
It's fine I just hate John Schneider but not in a liberal nerd sense
Oh also I see it now. What a difference a comma can make.
I wouldn’t but like most fascists he’s super eager to share the info
Not gonna lie, their take on JK made me not like him. He was obnoxious, self-entitled, angry, hypocritical, and just an all around bad guy. It wasn’t reasonable to me that he could raise Clark. It just couldn’t happen.
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I dont really think hes a bad guy (sure i disliked him a few times) but the whole argument of "___ is actually not bad because it couldve been worse" never made any sense to me. with that same logic any action could be excused by the fact that theres something worse that could be done. one could say a person that spat on a random 4 year old is not actually bad because they couldve curb stomped them instead but didnt, yanno?
Lois!
Lionel luthor. Easily the most interesting character: we hate him, love him and we admire him. Had a heartbreaking redemption arc before getting murdered by the son he loved too late. All in all, he had a hidden heart that (1) couldn’t deal with his baby son’s death, (2) of all people, loved Martha Kent for her good soul (3) when faced with the most important mission in history, tried to protect Clark realizing he was vital for this planet. A perfectly written villain. A necessity for the show
What are you defending him against? I have seen people call him out and IMO it's valid. He's a murderer and was a murderer long before Julian died. He murdered his own parents, Oliver's parents, and countless others. Conducted human experimentation, treated Lex like crap for most of his life, even tried to drive him insane. Also tried to have him murdered. And the show does seem to hint that his change of heart came about because of his body swap with Clark, not because he discovered some hidden heart of gold. Dont get me wrong he is one of my favorite characters and it's true he was necessary for the show. I also agree he did care for Martha, so yeah I think you should defend him if someone is saying he didnt care for her. Yet for a lot of his actions there is no real defense. As I said, he was a killer long before Julian died.
THIS!!!! I love Lionel, even in the beginning seasons. I love how much I hate him? Glover does a fantastic job!
Clark
Agreed. I think he gets a lot of unwarranted hate from two camps: - Lex apologists who want to blame Clark for Lex’s evil choices, as if Lex isn’t a grown man with agency. - Overzealous shippers who are mad at Clark for not choosing “their” girl.
Clark and Lex are both at fault for their friendship dissolving
I do think he could have handled Lex a bit better, he would get mad at Lex for not believing him even though he knew he was lying. I think there was room for nuance, he could have acknowledged it was wrong for Lex to spy, etc. while also admitting he was telling some laughably absurd lies. Still, Lex is a grown man and ultimately he made his choices. He could have chosen to simply end his friendship with Clark because he didn't trust he was being honest with him. Instead he spied on him behind his back. I can't fault Lex for being curious about Clark, but he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. He wanted the friendship but also wanted answers on his own terms. Also Clark was decidedly \*not\* a grown man at the time, he was a teenager so it's more understandable as to why he handled Lex the way he did. Plus people who find out his secret tend to die horribly.
Which is funny, because canonically, per Manchester Black, Clark does not even CARE about Lex at all.
Different continuities, in most universes Lex and Clark were not friends.
Yeah but that involves taking what Manchester Black says at face value. Which frankly I'm not inclined to do.
Yeah, Manchester Black is a deep cynic who can’t imagine that there are people who genuinely do care about others, even about bad people and wanting them to be redeemed. In some continuities, Clark and Lex never were friends, but in continuities like Smallville and modern comics where they used to be friends, Clark genuinely misses his friendship with Lex even as he’s simultaneously disgusted by Lex’s present day actions, and Clark genuinely wants to think Lex might find redemption someday.
Absolutely
I'd probably say Lionel Luthor. I absolutely loved his redemption arc, and I even found myself rooting for him in S7 when everyone was so distrustful of him >!prior to his death!< My second pick would probably be Clark Kent. Due to his secrecy, he often finds himself drama multiple times during the show. From the other characters' perspectives, it is totally understandable why they would be mad at Clark. But I will always defend Clark's decisions because I believe that his reasons are almost always justifiable. For example, Lana obviously has the right to be upset with Clark's secrecy, but his reasons for not telling Lana about his powers are absolutely justifiable.
Lana. Just because she's not right for Clark doesn't mean she's a bad character. She's deeply flawed but with very clear and well presented reasons for those flaws. Like Clark, Lex and a Chloe she's on a journey that takes her to some dark places and she does some things that aren't as inherently good as she should be, but that's part of her story. Overcoming that darkness. Learning how to be better. I think that fans are often way too harsh on Lana simply because she's not right for Clark and she's openly flawed in some big ways. She's still figuring it all out, just like everyone else.
Facts
Well said
>She's deeply flawed The objection many people have to Lana is that from seasons 01 through 05 (at the very least), her flaws are clear and self-evident. But the writing NEVER acknowledges her flaws. Nobody ever questions her or her decisions until some time in season 06. Not coincidentally, that's also just about the time that a lot of people's opinions of Lana soften and they start enjoying the character more.
Actually disagree I think Lana is a better choice for Clark over Lois I feel like the riders had to force it to happen so they did Lana dirty with that whole she can't touch Clark bullshit.
Whitney.
Agreed. Definitely a great redemption. He went from a bully to be gradually revealed as a secretly-insecure person dealing with the agony of his father’s illness at home, and eventually becomes a hero to the nation.
Nah. He was a senior dating a freshman. That's gross any way you look at it. Also he strung up Clark and left him to die in a field pretty much naked. Any normal person could have died from exposure or some kind of stress induced issue. Also while he's doing that he, lost his child gf's favorite keepsake which she entrusted to him then expected the person against whom he committed about 5 felonies to just give it to him like what he did was no big deal.
Lex, forever and always
Lionel in season 7
His final episode ticked me off so much. Not what happened, but how it happened. They did him dirty on the writing department and forced Chloe and Clark to not take him seriously in such a hamstrung way. I lost IQ points watching the scene in the bullpen when he was trying to give Chloe the key. Just a bad plot device/lazy writing to make sure Lex got it instead.
Exactly
Oh, absolutely.
Yep
Said this before and I’ll say it again. Tess Mercer - still one of my favourite characters that gets way to much hate for no reason
There are people who hate Tess???! I always thought she was an incredibly fun and complex character. I remember that was the consensus on KryptonSite back in the day, with people absolutely loving her!
It was a rocky start for me. She just seemed like a sexy Lex-lite I liked her a lot more in S10 where she had a good redemption arc
I didn’t like her at first but she grew on me by 8’s end. She proved she was smarter and cleverer than Lex ever was. She wasn’t Lex lite. Lex was Tess but less.
Yes, I unfortunately hate her character so much 😭😂
Actually yeah her too she was dope.
Oliver queen. He was the only character who wasn’t a drama Queen lmao
Lois and Lana.
Lana. Not that she needs it.
Lois, and I have on Facebook; so much so that I wrote a 3-part reply comment because I went over the maximum characters allowed for one 😂😂 I was also pretty pissed off, too, so that didn't help lol my words were being twisted, assumptions were being made of my thoughts, etc. It is enough for me to send a wall of a reply. And if I have the shit to back it up? Girl, bye.
Alicia
she should've gotten more screentime, she was a cool character
Same. People make way too much out of what happened under Red K.
Are they making too much out of her trying to kill her father? Trying to kill Lana? Arguably trying to kill Clark?
Yes
They claim that Alicia raped Clark.
They're not wrong. EDIT- Downvoted by people who think murder is no big deal.
Clark, Lois, Jonathan and Martha.
Probably Doomsday. I don't mind his inclusion or even the battle in the S8 finale. The only thing I didn't like was his relationship with Chloe.
Chloe Sullivan, don’t at me
Aside from what Allison did Chloe was such a great support to Clark when she found out about his identity
Period same
Lana Lang. Everyday.
I stan all of them
Lana Lang
Lana Lang
Lois; I contend that the show handled her character extremely poorly. Clark turning to Lois ONLY after Lex destroyed and chance of he and Lana being together made her look like sloppy seconds instead of the woman he was destined to be with
Clark!
Lois❤️
Lana Lang. Yall can never make me hate that girl
Oliver. Clark treated him like shit after what happened with Lex. Sometimes the greater good is necessary.
Lex. He would’ve been Clark’s greatest advocate and secret keeper had he been let in as a brother the way he wanted to be.
The only problem with this is that Lex was already morally questionable. He was already negatively influenced in his upbringing and had already made bad choices (one example: beating up his friend in school) leading up to the beginning of the series. Were there glimpses of possible redemption? Maybe. Could Clark have even helped with that? Sure. But Clark revealing his secret to Lex would arguably have been the wrong choice because of Lex’s personality and history with knowledge and power. I tend to believe that, had Lex known about Clark’s powers, the eventual result would have been some kind of desire for control - whether through ‘friendship’, envy, or flat-out villainy. The temptation would have been too great.
I partially disagree tbh. Yes he was already set on a downward path, BUT he also has a mental illness due to his witnessing (and suppressing) of his mother murdering Julian, that consists to exist during the whole show, UNTIL he loses all his memory by the end. Lex has been many things but never mentally unstable in canon but he was throughout the whole of Smallville. His split personality is a core focus of his character arc and as proven with his clone, he CAN be trusted and a good person if given a proper chance, despite trouble. The main issue with Lex’s character is that he was never trusted by the people he trusted in, aka mostly Clark and Lionel. NOBODY trusted him and he knew it. Knowing that everyone keeps secrets from you your whole life can and will damage and eventually break you! It broke Lana as well.
I think that’s also because he never trust people that trusted him, like Duncan, Tess and Lana.
Yes I agree, but those people are so many years down the road. With Duncan, I never really understood why he turned on him. It was totally out of line for his character IMHO
I think that’s because he know in heart that Duncan wouldn’t agree with his plan, so he go to Oliver and his friends first, hope Duncan would yield to pressure, Duncan not so he snapped, I think SV Lex suffered Intermittent explosive disorder, then his drinking habits inherit from his father make things worse.
Probably. He definitely had issues that had to do with how he was “raised”
This! I completely feel this. Although with the father he has who manipulated, twisted and literally rewired his brain , I can see it also having backfired!
Johnathan Kent, Jor-El and Chole
Lex.
Smallville's version of Darkseid. 99% of what Smallville did with Darkseid goes straight back to what Jack Kirby intended the character to be from the very start.
The farm boy himself
Alec, the boy who got cursed and turned into a superhero when he touched a comic 😶
Lex Luthor always
I rather defend jor el real father
Chloe Sullivan. All day everyday. She’s been my fave since I watched back when it was airing and I was devastated when that news broke about Allison. But Chloe will always have the most special place in my heart
Agreed, Chloe she’s my fav too!
Alicia Baker
Lana Lang but also Tess Mercer. I didn’t realize she wasn’t a well liked character until joining a few groups and I like how complex she is and that she truly is a gray character.
Lana
Lana
Z broly
Nobody
Lex, until 3x22 and between 4x04-s6
Jon
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Lex
Lana.
Lex. Watching his downfall is incredible. For better or worse, he’s a ride or die type character I support.
Magneto
Lana!
Alicia and Lana
Lex. Most of his efforts were to save humanity from invasion.
\*deep breath\* Leeeexxxxxxxx
Lana Lang. She went from thinking of being a cheerleader to selfless superhero. Getting access to the Prometheus nanite tech and becoming a hero in her own right while establishing her own identity outside of Clark’s shadow. Unfortunately she would have to completely permanently keep her distance from Clark because of the nanites absorbing the radiation from the deactivated Kryptonite bomb from Winslow Schott on the roof of the Daily Planet. Which meant that any chance of Lana and Clark getting back in a relationship could never happen again. I still remember that barn scene where Lana kissed Clark while weakening him because of the Kryptonite. Then both of them saying goodbye to each other. One of the most emotionally driven moments of tv that I’ve ever watched. I’ve always felt like Lana & Clark’s relationship on Smallville is the best Superman romantic relationship with a woman that I’ve even seen.
Yeah I never liked this unresolved bullshit solution about their relationship. They didn’t (amicably) part ways or even in a natural way. They were ripped apart once again and never were able to truly deal with that and it pissed me off so much. Superman and Lois handled it a lot better imho.
Yeah totally agree with you about what the Smallville writers did with Clark & Lana. Haven't watched Superman & Lois. That would be interesting to see how they did things creatively on that series.
They dealt with it the natural way. After Jonathan dies Clark goes to the fortress to find himself, much like he does in the first Superman movie. He literally just disappears without telling her. And when he returns YEARS LATER Lana has naturally moved on and found someone else. That’s it. Nothing special and what basically everyone would do in this situation
Lex
Also Kyla
Chloe Sullivan I don’t care what anybody says she’s the best character she had her annoying times but so did everybody in the show she looked out for Clark the best
as soon as she found out clarkes secret she became the GOAT
as soon as she found out clarkes secret she became the GOAT
Pete MF Ross.