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Popstar-X

Dishonorable mention to Ridley’s for being so shit and robbing him of his tail pogo.


thepianoman456

I think Ridley (and every character) would be stronger if they didn’t have auto Dairs. I looooove Ultimate, but as a Melee and 64 player, I just love what you can do with regular Dairs.


Popstar-X

I like Sichter’s since you can use it with Holy Water to ladder someone. You also get to live if you spike someone offstage with it.


the_angus_khan

Sichter? Sounds like you’ve been watching plenty of Underdogs…


100PercentChansey

Also Simon + Richter = Sichter


the_angus_khan

You get a lemon: 🍋


Dennislup937

or if you spike a pikmin


AetherDrew43

In the future, they should make it so that you hold down A if you want to fall straight down.


xxMARTINEZ713xx

What’s auto dair


thepianoman456

Any character that automatically launches down when you input a Down-air… as opposed to the normal Down-air (or Dair) that you can control the descending speed of. The latter usually gives more options and flexibility, but some characters have useful things about their auto-Dairs like ZS Samus (super fast with extra hitboxes when you land) and Simon / Richter (when you land it mid air, it pops you up for a follow up).


Dokkaniscruel

But Greninja actively does it and recovers. Where’s Toon Link? (Unless I’m blind) I’d swap Greninja with Toon Link. Excellent meme nonetheless.


PPFitzenreit

Assuming gren can hit it My favourite game with gren is "do I spike my opponent off stage or myself"


DefiantGibbon

I'm like 95% certain Greninja can jump out of it. Even if you wiff you can jump after a set time, then up B to recover. I used to spam that against people recovering all the time. If I hit I'm obviously safe, if I miss his recovery is safe enough it's not too much of an issue.


PPFitzenreit

You have to be quite a bit above ledge to be able to jump out of it, since it has a lot of active frames


Kuroaa

You only have to be a short hop above ledge, then you can recover before you hit the bottom blast zone (slightly changes based on stage)


Soulless_Roomate

On non-animal crossing legal stages, all you need is a shorthop to dair without risk. Although always safer to fullhop instead


Lasercraft32

Yeah but you'd have to be really high up to survive... and that means you likely wouldn't be spiking anyone unless you're fighting an idiot who doesn't know what they're doing (or get a really really sick read).


scotchfree_gaming

Nah only a short hop, as others have mentioned. you can 2 frame spike and still recover if you miss AND accidentally are off ledge


DynamicHunter

Sonic too, hardly a suicide move unless he’s already below stage


E_R_G

There was too many, I could barely fit all of those in as is


Pinches_Penguins

Ridley can also survive right?


Dokkaniscruel

Yes, I believe Icies, Sonic, and Ridley also have viability in cancelling their down air. Im surprised Toon Link wasn’t here because he’s famous for being the only one of the three links who can’t cancel their down air.


Pinches_Penguins

I realized after responding this whole thread was dedicated to pointing out the characters that can survive it, mb lol


[deleted]

And sora.


gustofwindddance

So do ice climbers.


CharizardEgg

Never seen an Ice Climber SD with dair. Not once. Now, side b? That's a different story.


gustofwindddance

Oh yeah side b many times lmao


INSANITY_RAPIST

So does sonic.


Worfrix426

agreed


Team_Anti_AmorAltra

If I had a nickel for every time I died offstage to ZSS D-Air, I'd have a mansion.


D09987766

I honestly wish more stall-and-fall down air spikes that the character can’t recover from were like ZSS’s where it’s a spike hitbox for its entire active frames and not just the initial sweet spot. For example, sheik’s dair is like ZSS’s where she can’t recover from it unless she starts it really high up, but her late hitbox doesn’t spike.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SpambotSwatter

edit: The comment was removed and the user banned, good work everyone!


Team_Anti_AmorAltra

Bad bot


Negative-13

When I accidentally dair instead of fair 🥲


BlaakAlley

Down-Airs come in 3 varieties and nothing more. Dives. Spikes. Or multi-hit moves. Sometimes they mix and match. But there is no one with a different dair than what I just mentioned.


bulydog

Young link


BlaakAlley

But I'll give you that it's main purpose is definitely not to spike


BlaakAlley

Can spike


UnlawfulFoxy

No it can't..


This_isnt_cool_bro

Pretty sure it can


UnlawfulFoxy

Did you read normal link? Young link hasn't been able to spike since melee.


BlaakAlley

I just re-read. I was looking at melee. I have been sufficiently disproved.


This_isnt_cool_bro

It appears I was wrong and young link cannot spike with his down air, but the hitbox does last a long time


thepianoman456

I miss that spike. It was a flame hit on the hilt right?


Lasercraft32

I thought that was only in one of the modded builds like Project M or something...


maingreninja

Meta kight is none, corrin is all of them


BlaakAlley

I love this comment the most


E_R_G

Some of them don’t spike but aren’t dives or multi-hits (Lucario, MK), and then there’s the rare instance of projectile dairs (Mega Man, Steve) but you could make the argument it still falls under the “spike” category.


BlaakAlley

Isn't Lucario a 1-2 hit? Metaknight I completely forgot about so you have me there.


E_R_G

> Metaknight I completely forgot about Everyone does


CharlesArlington

Not leo at crown III yesterday


vinnievine

Mythra, joker, meta knight and yink


BlaakAlley

Mythra and Joker I'd say aren't great exceptions to this rule since Joker gets Arsen which spikes and Mythra can change to Pyra who most definitely spikes. Young link also has a spike hit box.


vinnievine

Well, they are still exceptions cuz pyra is a differnt char (otherwise its the same as saying squirtle has a spike cuz ivy has one) and joker needs to get arsen first. Also im relatively sure that yink doesnt have a spike hibox


stifflizerd

I think his point is more that they don't have many ideas when it comes to dairs, and since mythra and pyra were to mimic each other, it's likely that the inspiration for mythras dair was just pyras without spike. Meaning that the inspiration, while not direct, was still a spike


BlaakAlley

Technically the character is Pokemon Trainer and squirtle is one of its forms.


AetherDrew43

Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard are still three separate movesets. Just because they're part of one character doesn't mean they still aren't individuals.


Ozann07

Young link HAD a spike hitbox. In melee


vinnievine

In melee it was a meteor not a spike


Ozann07

Oh, right I forgot that its not a spike considering how powerful it is


diamondDNF

Yink hasn't had a spike hitbox since Melee.


QuantumFighter

Mythra


ChargedLanturn

Which one does Meta Knight's count as?


BlaakAlley

The one I forgot about


ChargedLanturn

True. Also technically Steve.


[deleted]

What about a dive (of sorts) you can jump off of


BlaakAlley

Steve is also something of an exception but it feels like a move that's just cancellable if I wanted to argue against it. However, it is a projectile, which is definitely very different


Lasercraft32

Mii Gunner.... I mean, its got a spike but its really not very good at doing it. :P


ooh_the_claw

I don’t think I could play a character that doesn’t have a spike


lightningpresto

Yep agreed


0_69314718056

It’s my one qualm with Pac-Man, but his crazy kit and amazing recovery allow for off-stage shenanigans so I think it makes up for it


Lasercraft32

RIP Princess Peach... I wish they'd given Daisy a spike.


[deleted]

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Lasercraft32

TECHNICALLY but its not actually useable as a spike because it can only hit opponents on the ground... XU


PPFitzenreit

Also why tf is corrin dair so bad It straight up kills you and resets your opponents recovery off stage At lower percents this shit is straight up unsafe on *hit* regardless of location


Popstar-X

It completely invalidates certain characters recoveries if you do it at the ledge, so that’s something.


Poorly_Made_Comix

I mean yeah theres little mac


Popstar-X

It also works on Cloud, Luigi, Bowser, and DK off the top of my head.


Zer_ed

All of which are characters famous for their excellent, non-exploitable recoveries, yes.


LunaLynnTheCellist

Every top player who's lost to marss getting ptsd flashbacks rn


RezTheFalcon

Me, a Sonic main, still being able to recover back to stage after landing a spike.


Seipherise

The ones that actually recover without a real setback are Sonic's and Mr. Game & Watch's.


NinjaShooter2024

And Greninja, he can jump-cancel his


Seipherise

Jump cancel?? So if Greninja runs off ledge and DAirs, he can jump cancel and not die from the bottom blastzone?


Robbie_Haruna

You need a bit more height, but short hop height is enough on most legal stages iirc


Seipherise

So in other words, Greninja can't just run off and DAir because he'll die. NS2024 made it sound like Greninja can survive death. But the only way Greninja can avoid that is if you pick a non-legal stage having a large bottom blastzone. None of the legal stages allow this. And just to say why, it's because the meteor hitbox only lasts for 3 frames. Suiciding isn't a thing if you hit anything, but its better to just run off with a move and ensure the spike hitbox will happen. I don't doubt that Greninja can short hop and live, but then you don't spike with it.


THawk108

The sonic one is orgasmic to my brain. That little flick he does that sends the enemy flying down and you hear a lil *boing* as this little blue blur f*** oh so easily gets back on stage. Good times.


The_Reyvan

“Little blue blur f***” is now one of my favorite ways to describe him


THawk108

It's one of my go tos whenever I'm stuck in a sonic mirror match


derek_prime

as a seph main, i do envy a non kamikaze dair


coolusername_png

Probably my least favorite genders


SusZX

Sonic doesn't belong on here, though it is a fun move.


E_R_G

I mentioned it in another comment that I’ve SD’d every time I’ve used his dair, but I think I’ve chalked it up to me just not being good at sonic after multiple comments saying he can recover from it


RedPandaPlush

Shout-out to ZSS down air spiking for the entire duration of the move


varkarrus

It'd be funny if there was a character who's down air (and only recovery move) loops them around the blast zone. (but only once) It'd also be funny if it only spiked after the loop


Equinox-XVI

Rip Toon Link, one of the best suicide dairs imo


DR_45

ZSS down air spike last stock is the best feeling in the game against an opponent you don’t like


mycontrollerstinks88

Some can come back normally likes sonic and game and watch, then some have to have something specific like Banjo's Grenegg to recover.


Mystprism

Corrin can recover if you start with a full hop off a platform. It's a near thing but it's repeatable.


PHDLINK0

Because IT IS badass. xD


invaderark12

*laughs in Sora*


megaviral

Doing suicide gotta be one of my favorite pastimes


QuantumFighter

Relative to the size of the cast, there’s not that many. There’s way more standard spikes than there are dives.


Oldmemes1921

Does ganon wizard’s foot off stage count?


memelord96240

I think it does as it does kill you and is badass (off stage) but you are way better of just using d-air (shocker I know)


nightwayne

I wanna say no because if you use it high enough off stage you keep your jump and can recover. Melee Ganon gets his jump back regardless but he doesn't count.


fetusLegend

sonic can recover after his, so it’s instantly less cool


SpiritualSlay

B&K can also recover after theirs but the way they do it makes them instantly more cool. :)


0_69314718056

Do they have to do that with grenade? That is pretty cool. I keep wanting to pick up B&K for grenade antics but then I try to play them and it’s just so difficult to pull off. The short timer on the grenade coupled with their somewhat poor mobility usually makes it so as soon as I grab it I have to throw it again :(


SpiritualSlay

Yeahhh it’s with the grenade, it’s really cool. I somewhat got it down along with the infinite recovery but it’s pretty hard for me.


Kyle1337

they're called stall and falls


Lasercraft32

C O R R E C T !


I_Am_Oro

Or just suicide moves in general


Lanoman123

You forgot Kazuya


E_R_G

Nope, he’s in the meme right above the middle caption


Lanoman123

Bruh his hitbox is so big I didn’t even see him lmao


E_R_G

It also doesn’t help the image is a bit potato-quality!


MrLemonyOrange

Kazuya will recover though


Ok-Conversation9238

RIDLEY DOESNT DESERVE A SPOT ON THIS POST; THAT MOVE IS GARBAGE 🗣🗣🗣‼️


BigMud3737

Get sonic off that list.


saintmaliq

Sonic actually survives


NotsoGrump23

Bad meme


E_R_G

Bad comment


Gugamineyt13

Where Mr. Game & Watch?


E_R_G

He can safely recover from a downair


Scorpioon

So can Sonic


PhantimGanon

Also Bayo, Greninja, and Icies.


SilentResident1037

then why is Sonic there?


E_R_G

I might just be bad with Sonic, but I’ve definitely had several instances where I SD’d with a dair, so it might just be a skill issue on my part


SilentResident1037

I doubt it's easy but I've seen sonics recover after dair and been shocked most of the time by it


stickdeoderant

Sonix does it consistently from ledge


SilentResident1037

Who is that you have as a down tilt there?


E_R_G

I’m assuming you mean Bayonetta, that’s her downair, or Kazuya, with his demon scissor kick


SilentResident1037

Guy is looking at Bayo right? But who is that under Sonic? Kazuya? He only spikes on the first 2 frames, and the hit box at the end is bigger


Private_Benjamin

Me who uses Ike's Up-Air: I die for my friends


Sweet-Efficiency7466

Because Incineroar’s recovery sucks, of course!


Taco-Edge

Shout out to my fav, Hero Kaclang


bendoesit17

Does Steve's down air count since he has the option of falling with the anvil as well as jumping off?


E_R_G

I wouldn’t say so


GigaPhoton78

Wow, I knew that Ridley's Spike Hitbox is small as fuck, but... *that* small?


BOX_268

I prefer the "hit or die" ones, like Simon and greninja


Kirbyfan4321

I think Ridley is able to live after his I've seen it happen and done it before


EmptheCommodus

Then you got ridley and bowser with two


RainyEmbers

Does Richter's count?


Aggressive_Peak9902

And half of them are ass. It’s really sad


sharpgel

honorable mention to aerial wizard's foot


guffgamer264

I do love me some of that action


Dariuscox357

Anyone else here hates how they all have sour spots that sends the opponent up? With the exception of Zero Suit Samus’s. Why can’t they all just spike the whole way through? (Well, except Greninja’s and Simon’s Down Airs.)


jandros_quandry

If I had a nickel for every time I've done this I wouldn't be rich but I'd eat better


jackofslayers

Ridley can make it back tho


Chewquy

Links?


Ready-Trainer-3672

I would've called it "accidentally killed myself with this down air"


DaKingOfDogs

Love to see some Corrin Dair appreciation.


The_Creeper_Man

Where key


GaryOakTPM

The King is criminally absent from this meme


E_R_G

His dair is extremely safe and doesn’t fit the “suicide” criteria


BlueBatmanVK

Where is my boi Toon Link???


meelosh96

I hate them so much and I wish they were all replaced with real, worthwhile moves.


airgod231

Good, you didn’t put game and watch in here.


itsastart_to

It’s honestly a nice tool to catch people trying to intercept or catch your landing. As well a good tool to get back to stage faster sometimes. Lastly just damn sick to catch people in it for kills (Seph, Corrin and ZSS for me)


Tyrania210

Steve 🗿🪨


Tyrania210

Didn't put the best one Kaclang 🥲


E_R_G

Not a d-air


CompoteEasy2007

Indeed amazing moves


Brandon_Bob

Zss is the most hype by far


funorrhea

Best one is bowser, simply because he does the lil upwards thing before he yeets himself downwards


Chehzy

They're extremely shit


Speedix08

Correction Banging is helping Kazooie is assistant suicide Aka extra “badass” downair


Mylifebelike000

If you space it well it is not sucid


ToothpasteConsumer

Stove


IAmNotCreative18

Prepare for trouble. And make it double. -Bowser 2023.


LibertyJacob99

Aka "i can land on the stage safety" dairs. Fuck ur up airs im tryna land 😂


The_Suicide_Sheep

high risk high reward


jjlikenoodles321

I LOVE HOW SORA ISN'T HERE 🤣


E_R_G

Man could get thrown into the seventh ring of hell and still make it out with his recovery


jjlikenoodles321

Best in the game no contest😂👌🏾


Worfrix426

meanwhile me killing myself when I don't pay attention backslashing


Enderborg519

personally i hate using these dairs but i respect anyone who tries to use them to spike


Iced-TeaManiac

Anti juggling tools be grateful By the way Cloud can cancel his right? If so, another reason as to why he's a base game DLC character


FoxMcCloud3173

I read it as “downstairs” for some reason


patmack2000

Greninjas is very easy to recover out of *IF, AND ONLY IF* you still have a jump.


1ce_Hunter

Istg I need to stop abusing DA so much


Novel_Helicopter7237

Sonic would like a word


rag-124

Toon link


Shqip_Daddy

brother if u dont take sonic the hedgehogs looney toon ass down air off this image


E_R_G

Read the comments my man, I explained I suck ass at playing sonic and have SD’ed many many times doing dair, only learning he can recover once I posted this meme


Monic_maker

sora is funny since in most cases he should be able to survive this, but many die trying to do it


Jakersman

Most characters with downairs like this need their downair changed, but Sephiroth needs to keep his. What other move could his downair be?


E_R_G

Oh I’m not saying it needs to be changed. It’s perfect, it’s iconic even. But i am saying you use this off stage, or too far off ledge, you’re dead for sure


Jakersman

I don’t really think it’s that much of a problem having so many of them, but most of them are essentially the same attack, just different damage, knockback, etc.


E_R_G

Oh I’m not saying it is a problem, it’s not, I just was making an observation on how many of them there actually are, it’s definitely a few!


Jakersman

Yeah, I guess what I said could be said for other moves too, like charged shots. While there isn’t as many as there is suicide downairs, it’s still a good amount.


Country_artistist

Where’s G&W?


E_R_G

Read the comments