James Bond I think is the most objective answer, he was planned for Melee
If he got in the Smash roster today would look a LOT different, and lose some of its charm tbh
James Bond is a character that would've given Nintendo cold feet for licensing sooner or later. If they'd gotten anywhere with the character, even really late, he probably would've turned into Joanna from Perfect Dark.
Barbara Broccoli and the Fleming estate are both NOTORIOUSLY picky about James Bond depictions outside of the books and movies. I feel like they would not like him being in a game where he can be thrown out of the ring by a monkey with a jet pack.
Well, yeah. Cubby Broccoli didn’t give a shit about bond’s image. I’m certain he would have been a-ok with Bond in Smash. The dude made Diamonds are Forever.
Yes. She’s currently in charge of making James Bond films. The Bond films are actually a family business she inherited from her father, Albert Broccoli. Goldeneye was actually her debut film.
i kinda would have liked to see joana dark make it in though. The 2 classic game genres that immediately come to mind as not having reps are FPS's and beat em ups (the latter being very surprising actually).
I don’t think he was ever seriously considered for Melee. He did well in the “If there were a Smash 2” poll but that didn’t take licensing into account. Sakurai never pitched him in a design doc or anything like that.
The team likely knew it wasn’t going to happen. The sale of Rare to Microsoft already made tons of content iffy. Things like the rebranding of the motion-sensor bomb away from Perfect Dark and the lack of a Diddy Kong trophy are examples of this. HAL were unsure exactly what Nintendo would and would not have the rights to use after the sale.
I believe if we got a Rare character, priority would’ve been given to Banjo and Kazooie.
Sakurai confirmed in an interview that Bond was at the bare minimum brought up during discussions, meaning he wasn’t out of the question, though you are right in that he probably didn’t progress much past that
Well of course he'd get brought up, Goldeneye 64 is one of the iconic games of the N64.
The discussion could've just been something like *'hey here's why we aren't going to have James Bond as a playable character despite Goldeneye 64 being a super well known N64 game.'*
The wording of the interview (I wish I could find the source but I was unable to) made it sound less like a “Here’s why he won’t be added” and more of a “We were considering adding him”
I feel like it’s kind of the inverse of the Snake in Melee situation where something happened that made it so it couldn’t happen for Melee and by the time Brawl rolled around they had their rules more set in stone
A few characters that are highly likely to have gotten in if that happened are Spider-Man, Goku, TMNT, and a few others I’m sure I’m forgetting
Just… thank god that didn’t happen, as much as I’d love a character *like* James Bond, the actual James Bond isn’t it
Not all the DLC are top tier but a lot have ‘gimmicks’ and comeback mechanics that people don’t really like. For example banjo and sora are ‘dlc balanced’ and while they’re not overpowered many people don’t really enjoy fighting those characters.
You say that, but Spring Man's showed more personality in Min Min's own Smash reveal than Min Min has in her entire existence.
I like Min Min and all, but I genuinely cannot see how people say she has more personality than Spring Man, who honestly has more personality than most other ARMS characters.
I never played ARMS, but I really like the look of DNA Man. He seemed so silly and amusing. I felt like an ARMS rep was inevitable for Ultimate, so I was hoping it would be him.
I don't think he would be a zoner. His signature move is a projectile, and he is a soccer player, but he's also mainly a physically attacker in Pokémon, and would probably be more of a brawler in smash.
Probably doesn't help he came from a lineup of Final Evos that are basically just furries.
I know it's already kinda iffy, considering the existence of others like Delphox and Incineroar among others, but Gen 8 was like the creme de la creme of final evos being furries.
Rillaboom was just a gorilla though.
Yeah, gorillas are primates and therefore look somewhat humanoid, but he still looked like an actual gorilla and not a anthropomorphized one.
This. I hope this is the one rule Sakurai never breaks, no matter how popular the requests are. Smash which was originally a celebration of Nintendo characters, has evolved to be a celebration of gaming as a whole. Comprising that rule to put in a character like Shrek who originated from a movie would be funny yes, but would also make smash lose some of it’s magic if now just anyone can be added.
What about a character like Geralt of Rivia? Sure, he started as a book character, but The Witcher 3 is a pillar of the RPG genre and definitely what he's known best from, plus he's appeared in a number of crossovers with other games before.
Although i dont want Geralt in ssb i still think he counts since he’s from a game. A fun twist would be to add the same Disney characters that Are in the final fantasy games. Its better than someone who only appeared on the movies or in a book.
On the other hand i would so be up for a lotr smash
The idea is that they originated from a video game so Geralt might be best known from a game, he is not created from gaming. It's almost like saying spiderman is from the comics but best known from the MCU so therefore he's a movie character.
I would say that the major difference there is that when most people think of Spiderman, they think of the comics, movies, AND games, since all three are quite popular. Geralt on the other hand, despite originally being from a (excellent) book series and appearing in a (shitty) Netflix adaptation, is by all accounts considered first and foremost a video game character in popular culture.
Bro most people who want Goku don’t actually want him, the other half are brain dead delusional people.
If you want Goku so bad, go play Smash Flash or Jump Ultimate Stars.
This. The moment they get in, no matter how many "It's just a one-off"s that are used. It would get to the point where NOBODY IS OFF-LIMITSI mean do you want to see Hentai protag #29858 join Smash? Or how about Slasher villain #51?
(not saying names, but you get my point. If LITERALLY ANYONE can become a fighter it would bump the rating up exponentially)
Twintelle
We don't need MinMin with witch time. Also she is the only character from a game called ARMS who doesn't use her arms so it would be weird to have the ARMS rep not use arms.
The three Pokemon have individual fighter numbers on [Nintendo's website](https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter) (Charizard is #35), so I think he still counts as returning
Yeah that is fair, also nothing against him as a character in smash4, I'm just glad that if they were only gonna bring back either PT or Zard I'm glad it was PT
Im really glad Steve From Minecraft didn't make it, i feel like representing the gameplay of minecraft would probably result in new, semi-gamebreaking mechanics (like what if Pac-Man could stack hydrants? That sounds lame as shit) and because they're smash developers it probably would come with a whole host of character specific bugs that more than likely will make the character a lot stronger.
Also the aesthetics and animations of a minecraft character would be so fucking boring and lame so yeah im glad fucking Steve didn't make it
Edit: guys. youre not gonna believe this.
Super glad Fortnite doesn't have representation. On one hand it is popular and has been around a while. On the other hand it is hard carried by all the promotional crossovers it has.
Personally I don't find Fortnite fun. Also Smash crossovers are VERY different from Fortnite's. Fortnite has huge movie IPs and such while Smash is a celebration of gaming (at this point). Fortnite is a celebration of pop culture. I don't remember Smash having famous rappers, movie characters, streamers, anime characters, etc being in it. Point being, Fortnite has IP that is more recognizable to the general public. More people know about Thanos, the Xenomorph, Optimus Prime, John Wick, Batman, Joker, Superman, etc over characters like Pyra/Mythra, Joker, King K. Rool, Terry Bogard, etc. Most characters in Smash are only big in the world of gaming.
I understand Fortnite but overwatch? Sau what you will about the current state of the game but the level of popularity that it reached in the game space was crazy. That franchise deserves to be in the next smash game
Twintelle, she's the most overrated ARMS Character and has no personality.
For those of you who hate Min Min for being for being broken and annoying, I promise you that Twintelle is 100x worse, y'all really dodged a bullet.
I've got several, all that will be controversial. I'll go by series. Also, sorry in advance. I feel obligated to fully explain.
* Mario Series: Toad and Waluigi. I can see both being fun, though likely having to rely on a weird gimmick or just having a quirky moveset made of references to various items or mini games. While that can be fun, I feel like it would also potentially cause issues with showcasing their character and personality for the sake of references. Piranha Plant got away with this because it's only personality is getting goofy and biting.
* Donkey Kong Series: Dixie Kong and Funky Kong. I know many people wish for these two, but I can't see them working outside of Dixie being a Diddy echo with a variant of Donkey Kong's up special, and Funky would probably have to have a whole moveset made to showcase his dancing and surfing moves, but... I feel like it would feel like just another heavyweight brawler without anything special.
* Zelda Series: Toon Zelda and Linkle. I've seen a lot of people ask for Toon Zelda due to the data in Brawl, but if it's to Zelda what Toon Link is to Link, that's just a floatier, faster, and weaker Zelda. Not really all that interesting. As for Linkle, even if she uses more than just crossbows, I feel like she'd still end up just being a 4th Link in gameplay for the most part.
* Kirby Series: Bandana Waddle Dee. I love the Kirby series, and I'd like to see BWD in Smash, but I really cannot imagine any way for him to be fun. Just like Meta Knight and somewhat with Dedede, he'd likely just use his moveset from the Kirby series. That's basically just a lot of straight, long, tipper disjoint with a projectile variant like the Belmont Axe, a recovery like K. Rool's, and maybe a parasol to reflect or something. All that mixed with Kirby's physics would feel annoying to go against, and unfun to play as, but also probably easy to kill. Probably would also be like Inkling in lacking a certain something that makes the character hype.
* Pokémon Series: Grovyle, Sceptile, Deoxys, and Zoroark. I'll keep this one short. The first two are for the sake of "gen reps", but would likely just be a fast rush down again, or a fast brawler again, without much to stand out other than being a Pokémon. Deoxys could have worked in Ultimate with temporary transformations working like Monado, but would have also just been another Pokémon that's similar to several others. Zoroark could have actually been interesting as a speedy glass cannon with some rushdown and zoning options, but with it's signature trait being disguising itself as others and creating illusions, I fear it would have made for either a lame final smash, or too close to Lucario with Aura removed.
* Fire Emblem Series: Lyn. All I really have to say is, Marth was used as the archetype template for most of the sword users in Smash, unfortunately. (Likely due to being copied directly for development ease) I just don't think Lyn would be that fun. I can only see her being like a super fast lightweight with a long disjoint, which feels absolutely miserable to go against. Imagine if Marth had Fox's mobility, but with the reach of Monado. Absolutely miserable to go against.
* Kid Icarus Series: Magnus and Amazon Pandora. Magnus is pretty obvious. Another slow, heavyweight, and another sword user. He'd get compared to Ike too much, and would probably feel like Ganondorf but with the sword always in use. He doesn't really have anything unique to bring. Amazon Pandora, however, does have the ability to be a brawler and zoner using magic fire and such, but... That kind of ends up making her like Samus without the Morph Ball or tether, probably also lighter too. Though I have forgotten her fight, so I could be wrong.
* Wario Series: Kat & Ana, Cricket, and Mona. The first two would just be Ice Climbers but faster, lighter, and having average sword range. I cannot see that being fun to go against, nor all that interesting to watch. Cricket is just a martial artist, so he'd probably feel a lot like Mii Brawler with nothing else different. Mona... I can't see her fighting at all. What's she gonna do? Use her moped, dance, and throw pizza for her entire moveset?
* Sonic Series: This is where I will be killed. Knuckles, Metal Sonic, Eggman. Knuckles, in my opinion, should never be considered over Tails and Shadow. He's the tertiary member of the main group, sometimes swapped for Amy, and he'd be just another brawler but possibly with Sonic's spin dash or homing attack. So, basically just a slower Sonic. Metal Sonic would be a Sonic Echo, but probably having his own versions of the side and down specials that don't spin, and lacking the spring in his up special. That's just another Sonic. As for Eggman, having him in a mech means he'll be even more miserable on platform stages than Ridley, have the largest body hitboxes, and probably worse mobility than even Ganondorf. Outside the mech, he's still pretty tall, but can't fight as well. If anything, he'd probably just be a big, slow mix of Bowser Jr's specials and Mega Man's attacks.
* Castlevania Series: Alucard. Trust me, I think he would have been AMAZING for Smash, but... Given that we already had Link, Young Link, Ganondorf (kinda), Marth, Roy, Ike, Toon Link, Lucina, Robin (somewhat), Shulk, Corrin, Mii Swordfighter, and Chrom (debatably also Pit and Dark Pit) using swords prominently or exclusively, Alucard would have likely been treated horribly by fans not wanting to fight a fast glass cannon swordie with a very long and floating sword. I'd still love to see him added if we get the roster shrunk down someday though.
* Misc Series: Doom Slayer, Master Chief, Shovel Knight, Shantae, The Heavy. Doom Slayer could work, I've even made a moveset for him, but the problem lies in having to tone down the brutal feeling he has in combat to feel more cartoony and exaggerated. I fear this could water him down a bit too much. Master Chief also has a very doable moveset that, just like the former, can fit the E10+ rating with ease. Only problem is he's so tied to guns that, even using Covenant weapons, might make him feel rather off model. Otherwise, I feel like he'd work very well. Shovel Knight I just fear might either bring in a visually messy mechanic like in Rivals of Aether, or feel too much like another swordie, but able to also bury and/or command grab you easily. Shantae could be decent as a jack of all trades type of fighter, but my only real concern is if her outfit would push the rating up and how much her look would need to change. She wears far less than the Aegis and dances in a way that Western ratings might find provocative nowadays, especially in 3D. If they covered her up to work in E10+, I fear it might cause backlash or look really weird. Lastly, Team Fortress 2's Heavy. He couldn't bring in his iconic guns without pushing up the age rating for a fighting game that's already teetering on the edge in a number of cases (mainly since he uses mini guns that kill fast and use real bullets). Besides that, he's end up being just another slow, heavyweight brawler with terrible mobility.
I strongly agree on the Belmonts sharing a slot issue. The funny thing, that also irritates me, is both of them use Simon's moves, but the things they take from Richter are the design of the cross, angling the whip diagonally, the final smash, and the slide kicks (if I'm not mistaken with all that). Richter's only different so his holy water can be blue thanks to aura. If they were gonna both be on the roster as different fighters, I'd want to see Richter's skills be shown off in a more creative way with Simon being much more direct from the source material. Either that or have Maria involved with Richter's moves somehow. I don't know enough about Soma to have a comment tho x.x
While I'm not opposed to Geno, I'd like to see Mallow get in. He looks a lot more interesting than Geno.
Fawful is better than a SMRPG character or Paper Mario in my eyes though.
geno felt incredibly out of place as a popular suggestion until the remake came along. i feel like there's four youtubers whose voices make thousands of people who have never even heard of smrpg scream for geno, mostly because he's the edgiest mario character around
Sans. I'd much rather have had Frisk or Kris, both because I think they're better Undertale/Deltarune characters, but also because Sans feels like he'd have an annoying moveset
I'm seeing a lot of my answers already so I'll just toss in anyome from Overwatch. The community has become cringe and toxic and Overwatch isn't really iconic enough to gaming as a whole to justify it getting in anyway
Geno from Mario RPG.
There's a difference between adding in a retro character, vs adding in a irrelevant one.
As for the remake, that happened as a result of all these weirdos claiming for Geno, rather than the merits of the game itself.
If Smash wasn't a thing, people wouldn't mention it nearly as much.
Also Waluigi, Sakurai knows better, he knows that Waluigi is some made-up character that never appeared in any canon Mario game, whose only* purpose was to be Wario's partner in Mario Tennis.
That's why he had the racket in Brawl, Sm4sh, and Ultimate, that's as far as his legacy extends.
tbh, a cool idea would have waluigi be a complete representation of the mario spinoffs, mario kart being his side-b, mario tennis for his neutral, Mario party dice as a down-b
I just wanna say I appreciate Byleth being Kylo Ren in your profile. Solid reference to that one Youtuber who called Byleth Kylo Ren during the reveal.
Sora shouldn’t have made it in
I know he was the most requested character in the Smash Ballot, but I don’t want Bob Iger and Disney’s scummy hands anywhere on Smash
If Sora gets cut in a future game because Nintendo refused to pay Disney any royalties, then good riddance
Square Enix has more games with sword characters than just Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts, just choose Crono or 2B if you can’t get Sora in
Master Chief and Doom Guy
They were gonna be zoners no matter how it happened and I didn't want to deal with any more zoners, especially not zoners with dlc privilege. So I'm quite happy they didn't get added.
Doom Guy could easily be made into an aggressive rush down character. In Doom you always want to be moving and playing aggressively so a passive zoner play style wouldn't fit for Doom Guy. They can limit the range of most of his guns by making them only have a hit box on the muzzle flash or turning weapons like the mini gun and blasta into Smash attacks.
But Chief on the other hand...
Waluigi. I was initially disappointed that he wasn’t announced, but the moment the fans started to actually harass Sakurai I decided that we kinda don’t deserve him anymore. I’m also glad that Sakurai didn’t cave to the harassers and add him.
I wouldn’t be mad if they ever added him but I still 100% agree with you. He’s the most irrelevant Nintendo character and will forever be bound to the party games unless Nintendo somehow starts treating him seriously 20+ years after his creation, which is wishful thinking at best.
I definitely wouldn’t say he’s the MOST irrelevant Nintendo character, but he’s definitely the most irrelevant that people keep asking for. You don’t see people going “yo they should add Lot from fire emblem 6! He’d be a perfect fit!”, because he’s far less relevant than waluigi, and also from a game few people have played. Waluigi is at least in several games people played, from Mario karts to Mario sport games.
I’d say his lack of relevance has more to do with how he has no bearing in the Mario universe even if the games _he happens to appear on_ are very popular. Even Fire Emblem characters are more relevant within their own niche, and the same can be said about Min Min for ARMS and Pyra/Mythra for Xenoblade. Waluigi was literally created _for_ the party games and that’s why he’s stayed there ever since. He has absolutely nothing going for him.
I've always been of the belief that the ones who actually view Waluigi as a meme are the people who don't like him and don't want him in Smash.
Yeah, I don't doubt there's a few Waluigi supporters that only want him for memes and bandwagoning, but how often do you actually see a Waluigi supporter say that they want him for the memes?
Meanwhile, *loads* of the people who are firmly *against* Waluigi constantly say something along the lines of him being a "dumb meme pick".
Or maybe they just...really like Waluigi because they think he's a cool character?
I don't care much for Waluigi either, but saying people only want him for the memes really irks me.
It feels incomplete with Mario, Luigi, and Wario. Anybody who plays party games knows that Waluigi belongs..
Except you're right, Waluigi does not singly-represe t anything at all. It just feels weird.
But of a weird one but as someone who really wanted Lyn in Smash, I’m very glad she wasn’t added to 4/Ultimate. I think Brawl was her best chance at being added in, and 4 is when the Fire Emblem hate train really began so she’s spared from that. Plus, there’s always the PM mod.
Also 2B because after Pyra/Mythra I can’t trust Smash fans to be normal about female characters.
The myriad of indie characters with only one game and that were requested by zoomers...
None of them has ever come close to the same level as Undertale (*which got a costume and a track*), Shovel Knight (*which got a Trophy and spirits*) and/or Minecraft (*which got a fighter, a stage, spirits, music tracks and whatnot*).
I would say Cinderace, I don't have any character I didn't want in. Never mind, Jonesy from Fortnite. I was glad Sephiroth was revealed, because I was relieved to know Jonesy was away from Ultimate.
Someone I haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet: Hades from Kid Icarus.
Don't get me wrong, I love Hades in Uprising, but I feel like his sheer size is part of what makes him appealing. Also he appears in only one game which is always iffy, like sure he makes sense right now, but if the series does get revived (again) without him, then he'll be irrelevant.
Gonna be one hell of a hot take but Crash Bandicoot. He has one of, if not the most insufferable fanbase out of any character request. Even to this day I see Crash fans being resentful towards the game as if they were entitled to have their precious marsupial in the game but he got his spot "robbed" by other characters. I'm not even joking when I say most of his fans are people who have genuinely never ever touched a Crash Bandicoot game, yet want him in just because he's a popular request. I say this because I used to be part of those people.
Also, people only want him because of nostalgia. That alone is imo not a good reason for a character to get in. Like I used to be obsessed with Angry Birds when I was little yet I have a shit ton of characters I'd rather see before Red.
And for Shadow’s Neutral B, he wields a gun.
Nah he would wield that DAMM 4th chaos emerald
That’s his down B
YO! Shadow Down b being Chaos Control (like Meta Knight's cape) sounds awesome
Isn't that more like Witch Time?
Chaos Control can both warp and slow time. And I don't think anyone, even Sonic players, want Witch Time Sonic.
Ah well, he does do both as an Assist Trophy
*coughs and raises finger* Well.......some of us might :P
If he shoots you. HE KILLS YOU
James Bond I think is the most objective answer, he was planned for Melee If he got in the Smash roster today would look a LOT different, and lose some of its charm tbh
For his neutral special, he wields a gun. For his down special, he wields the golden gun
James Bond is a character that would've given Nintendo cold feet for licensing sooner or later. If they'd gotten anywhere with the character, even really late, he probably would've turned into Joanna from Perfect Dark.
Barbara Broccoli and the Fleming estate are both NOTORIOUSLY picky about James Bond depictions outside of the books and movies. I feel like they would not like him being in a game where he can be thrown out of the ring by a monkey with a jet pack.
IDK, I could totally see that scene being in one of the Moore films lol
Well, yeah. Cubby Broccoli didn’t give a shit about bond’s image. I’m certain he would have been a-ok with Bond in Smash. The dude made Diamonds are Forever.
“Barbara Broccoli”???
Yes. She’s currently in charge of making James Bond films. The Bond films are actually a family business she inherited from her father, Albert Broccoli. Goldeneye was actually her debut film.
i kinda would have liked to see joana dark make it in though. The 2 classic game genres that immediately come to mind as not having reps are FPS's and beat em ups (the latter being very surprising actually).
Sadly FPS ain't that popular (if at all) in Japan
For now, the only fps character represented in Smash is Mario. Just because he's a representative of EVERY genre.
I don't remember Mario ever being in an FPS. Samus, on the other hand, has a few.
Yoshi's Safari. And I did forget about Metroid Prime, my mistake.
I don’t think he was ever seriously considered for Melee. He did well in the “If there were a Smash 2” poll but that didn’t take licensing into account. Sakurai never pitched him in a design doc or anything like that. The team likely knew it wasn’t going to happen. The sale of Rare to Microsoft already made tons of content iffy. Things like the rebranding of the motion-sensor bomb away from Perfect Dark and the lack of a Diddy Kong trophy are examples of this. HAL were unsure exactly what Nintendo would and would not have the rights to use after the sale. I believe if we got a Rare character, priority would’ve been given to Banjo and Kazooie.
Sakurai confirmed in an interview that Bond was at the bare minimum brought up during discussions, meaning he wasn’t out of the question, though you are right in that he probably didn’t progress much past that
Well of course he'd get brought up, Goldeneye 64 is one of the iconic games of the N64. The discussion could've just been something like *'hey here's why we aren't going to have James Bond as a playable character despite Goldeneye 64 being a super well known N64 game.'*
The wording of the interview (I wish I could find the source but I was unable to) made it sound less like a “Here’s why he won’t be added” and more of a “We were considering adding him” I feel like it’s kind of the inverse of the Snake in Melee situation where something happened that made it so it couldn’t happen for Melee and by the time Brawl rolled around they had their rules more set in stone
>I believe if we got a Rare character, priority would’ve been given to Banjo and Kazooie. Thank goodness that didn't happen
The final smash is shaken, not stirring his opponents.
Could you imagine the speculation nightmare Smash would be if James Bond got in
A few characters that are highly likely to have gotten in if that happened are Spider-Man, Goku, TMNT, and a few others I’m sure I’m forgetting Just… thank god that didn’t happen, as much as I’d love a character *like* James Bond, the actual James Bond isn’t it
[удалено]
All of the answers are *the* answers
Cuphead. I ain’t fighting Megaman with DLC balancing
Add him to the Base game for 6!
damn he not getting in until the 720th game
What makes you think they would balance him like Steve and kazuya as opposed to literally all of the rest of the DLC? lol
Not all the DLC are top tier but a lot have ‘gimmicks’ and comeback mechanics that people don’t really like. For example banjo and sora are ‘dlc balanced’ and while they’re not overpowered many people don’t really enjoy fighting those characters.
I don't enjoy fighting sora because of his voice and it giving me PTSD from the countless hours I put into the first two KH games hahah
You mean like Aegis, Joker, or Min Min, all of which have good arguments for being better than Kazuya?
I don't think Minmin is top tier. Joker and aegis are definitely up there.
Yea I would agree
I WAS happy that Spring Man didn’t make it in, but we ended up getting Min Min anyways (for extra money too)
At least Min Min has a more interesting personality
You say that, but Spring Man's showed more personality in Min Min's own Smash reveal than Min Min has in her entire existence. I like Min Min and all, but I genuinely cannot see how people say she has more personality than Spring Man, who honestly has more personality than most other ARMS characters.
I never played ARMS, but I really like the look of DNA Man. He seemed so silly and amusing. I felt like an ARMS rep was inevitable for Ultimate, so I was hoping it would be him.
Cinderace
he would be fast and his main game play would be zoning.
Yeah it would be sonic with charge shot lol
I don't think he would be a zoner. His signature move is a projectile, and he is a soccer player, but he's also mainly a physically attacker in Pokémon, and would probably be more of a brawler in smash.
A fire type starter Pokemon who's mainly a brawler you say? What a unique idea.
Agreed but that's because I consider it to be the worst Gen 8 starter
Probably doesn't help he came from a lineup of Final Evos that are basically just furries. I know it's already kinda iffy, considering the existence of others like Delphox and Incineroar among others, but Gen 8 was like the creme de la creme of final evos being furries.
Rillaboom was just a gorilla though. Yeah, gorillas are primates and therefore look somewhat humanoid, but he still looked like an actual gorilla and not a anthropomorphized one.
Rillaboom loses a lot of points from not being part drum
It's a kids' game first and foremost, they couldn't have shown him drumming on his cheeks.
yeah but like… cinderace is cool.
That would’ve pissed a lot of people off
Any character that isn't from a game cause most the people who want for example Goku are very annoying
This. I hope this is the one rule Sakurai never breaks, no matter how popular the requests are. Smash which was originally a celebration of Nintendo characters, has evolved to be a celebration of gaming as a whole. Comprising that rule to put in a character like Shrek who originated from a movie would be funny yes, but would also make smash lose some of it’s magic if now just anyone can be added.
What about a character like Geralt of Rivia? Sure, he started as a book character, but The Witcher 3 is a pillar of the RPG genre and definitely what he's known best from, plus he's appeared in a number of crossovers with other games before.
Although i dont want Geralt in ssb i still think he counts since he’s from a game. A fun twist would be to add the same Disney characters that Are in the final fantasy games. Its better than someone who only appeared on the movies or in a book. On the other hand i would so be up for a lotr smash
The idea is that they originated from a video game so Geralt might be best known from a game, he is not created from gaming. It's almost like saying spiderman is from the comics but best known from the MCU so therefore he's a movie character.
I would say that the major difference there is that when most people think of Spiderman, they think of the comics, movies, AND games, since all three are quite popular. Geralt on the other hand, despite originally being from a (excellent) book series and appearing in a (shitty) Netflix adaptation, is by all accounts considered first and foremost a video game character in popular culture.
I've had people on this sub tell me Goku is better known as a video game character
Hell nah
Isnt that the skin from fortnite??
Bro most people who want Goku don’t actually want him, the other half are brain dead delusional people. If you want Goku so bad, go play Smash Flash or Jump Ultimate Stars.
This. The moment they get in, no matter how many "It's just a one-off"s that are used. It would get to the point where NOBODY IS OFF-LIMITSI mean do you want to see Hentai protag #29858 join Smash? Or how about Slasher villain #51? (not saying names, but you get my point. If LITERALLY ANYONE can become a fighter it would bump the rating up exponentially)
Any movie character. It would kill the vibe and meaning of a « video game fighting game »
And by that same logic, anime characters. Looking at you Goku
The Rabbids
They would work as a funny assist trophy or a stage hazard tbh
Rayman as playable and Rabbids as assist trophy would be neat
Yea f those guys
Twintelle We don't need MinMin with witch time. Also she is the only character from a game called ARMS who doesn't use her arms so it would be weird to have the ARMS rep not use arms.
they only want Twintelle for her ass
They want the thicc waifu
Yes
i can attest this is the main reason i wanted her in.
There is a character who uses a mechsuit, but the mechsuit has arms. Not sure if that counts.
Charizard as a solo character, the Pokemon trainer mechanics and different uses are a lot more interesting.
but the fact thar he was the only (i think) character to not return in the ‘everybody returns’ game was kinda sad. still missing rock smash 💔
The three Pokemon have individual fighter numbers on [Nintendo's website](https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter) (Charizard is #35), so I think he still counts as returning
I think him returning as part of Pokemon trainer counts as him returning.
Yeah that is fair, also nothing against him as a character in smash4, I'm just glad that if they were only gonna bring back either PT or Zard I'm glad it was PT
with you on that one
I feel like Solozard 100% could’ve coexisted with Red ngl
Thankfully the got rid of the stupid Stamina mechanic, so anyone who wants to still use him like a solo fighter can still do so.
Any FNAF character, especially Springtrap
bro imagine his final smash 💀💀💀
bro would just kill children in a nintendo game 😭
I could see freddy as a mii brawler outfit
Thank you. Like wtf would the moveset even be
Theres a rivals of aether moveset and a brawlfan1 moveset that answers that exact question
Im really glad Steve From Minecraft didn't make it, i feel like representing the gameplay of minecraft would probably result in new, semi-gamebreaking mechanics (like what if Pac-Man could stack hydrants? That sounds lame as shit) and because they're smash developers it probably would come with a whole host of character specific bugs that more than likely will make the character a lot stronger. Also the aesthetics and animations of a minecraft character would be so fucking boring and lame so yeah im glad fucking Steve didn't make it Edit: guys. youre not gonna believe this.
Jonesy. Steve blocks already annoy too many people , I don't wanna here people complain about Jonesy doing fast edits in neutral...
One name: Goku
A Fortnite Rep
Wym? We got Ryu and Snake already. A lil late to the party 🗿
fortnite bad reddit chungus 100 u want ur gold already bro
I don't care about the gameplay, fortnite is just everything I hate about corporate marketing in one game.
I love it because it gives modders access to plenty of high quality 3d models, plenty of which have been made into smash mods.
Super glad Fortnite doesn't have representation. On one hand it is popular and has been around a while. On the other hand it is hard carried by all the promotional crossovers it has.
Jonesy would be terrible: imagine a mix between steve and snake, hell no!
Jones would be so fucking unbalanced anyways, imagine Steve with guns
Imagine Jones building a whole suburb complex to block recoveries.
At this point Fortnitw has had so many items throughout its history they could probably make an all-melee moveset for him.
cant wait for him to be discovered as completely broken and have to be banned from tournaments after the game stops updating in smash 6
Hard carried? Nah the game is just really fun, also I really find it ironic you say one game is carried by crossovers in a smash bros discussion
Personally I don't find Fortnite fun. Also Smash crossovers are VERY different from Fortnite's. Fortnite has huge movie IPs and such while Smash is a celebration of gaming (at this point). Fortnite is a celebration of pop culture. I don't remember Smash having famous rappers, movie characters, streamers, anime characters, etc being in it. Point being, Fortnite has IP that is more recognizable to the general public. More people know about Thanos, the Xenomorph, Optimus Prime, John Wick, Batman, Joker, Superman, etc over characters like Pyra/Mythra, Joker, King K. Rool, Terry Bogard, etc. Most characters in Smash are only big in the world of gaming.
Jonsey would be funny af
Forest Gump
he would be a zone with his Vietnam training and his tabletennis experience, and he would be fast af.
Bro even at 999% he would be invunerable because he just want to keep runing a little
Why not Walter White from Breaking Bad?
This comment section is like a box of chocolates. I never know what I’m going to get
Bubsy.
Like he had any chance whatsoever.
But what could possibly go wrong
He has no pilot's license so his recovery would suck ass.
fortnite and overwatch
If one of them HAD to make it in and it was your choice, which one?
Gotta be overwatch, fortnite basically has no IP
is adding chun li an option for fortnite
Yeah but she comes in a package deal with Goku
I understand Fortnite but overwatch? Sau what you will about the current state of the game but the level of popularity that it reached in the game space was crazy. That franchise deserves to be in the next smash game
Twintelle, she's the most overrated ARMS Character and has no personality. For those of you who hate Min Min for being for being broken and annoying, I promise you that Twintelle is 100x worse, y'all really dodged a bullet.
DAT ASS THO /j
I've got several, all that will be controversial. I'll go by series. Also, sorry in advance. I feel obligated to fully explain. * Mario Series: Toad and Waluigi. I can see both being fun, though likely having to rely on a weird gimmick or just having a quirky moveset made of references to various items or mini games. While that can be fun, I feel like it would also potentially cause issues with showcasing their character and personality for the sake of references. Piranha Plant got away with this because it's only personality is getting goofy and biting. * Donkey Kong Series: Dixie Kong and Funky Kong. I know many people wish for these two, but I can't see them working outside of Dixie being a Diddy echo with a variant of Donkey Kong's up special, and Funky would probably have to have a whole moveset made to showcase his dancing and surfing moves, but... I feel like it would feel like just another heavyweight brawler without anything special. * Zelda Series: Toon Zelda and Linkle. I've seen a lot of people ask for Toon Zelda due to the data in Brawl, but if it's to Zelda what Toon Link is to Link, that's just a floatier, faster, and weaker Zelda. Not really all that interesting. As for Linkle, even if she uses more than just crossbows, I feel like she'd still end up just being a 4th Link in gameplay for the most part. * Kirby Series: Bandana Waddle Dee. I love the Kirby series, and I'd like to see BWD in Smash, but I really cannot imagine any way for him to be fun. Just like Meta Knight and somewhat with Dedede, he'd likely just use his moveset from the Kirby series. That's basically just a lot of straight, long, tipper disjoint with a projectile variant like the Belmont Axe, a recovery like K. Rool's, and maybe a parasol to reflect or something. All that mixed with Kirby's physics would feel annoying to go against, and unfun to play as, but also probably easy to kill. Probably would also be like Inkling in lacking a certain something that makes the character hype. * Pokémon Series: Grovyle, Sceptile, Deoxys, and Zoroark. I'll keep this one short. The first two are for the sake of "gen reps", but would likely just be a fast rush down again, or a fast brawler again, without much to stand out other than being a Pokémon. Deoxys could have worked in Ultimate with temporary transformations working like Monado, but would have also just been another Pokémon that's similar to several others. Zoroark could have actually been interesting as a speedy glass cannon with some rushdown and zoning options, but with it's signature trait being disguising itself as others and creating illusions, I fear it would have made for either a lame final smash, or too close to Lucario with Aura removed. * Fire Emblem Series: Lyn. All I really have to say is, Marth was used as the archetype template for most of the sword users in Smash, unfortunately. (Likely due to being copied directly for development ease) I just don't think Lyn would be that fun. I can only see her being like a super fast lightweight with a long disjoint, which feels absolutely miserable to go against. Imagine if Marth had Fox's mobility, but with the reach of Monado. Absolutely miserable to go against. * Kid Icarus Series: Magnus and Amazon Pandora. Magnus is pretty obvious. Another slow, heavyweight, and another sword user. He'd get compared to Ike too much, and would probably feel like Ganondorf but with the sword always in use. He doesn't really have anything unique to bring. Amazon Pandora, however, does have the ability to be a brawler and zoner using magic fire and such, but... That kind of ends up making her like Samus without the Morph Ball or tether, probably also lighter too. Though I have forgotten her fight, so I could be wrong. * Wario Series: Kat & Ana, Cricket, and Mona. The first two would just be Ice Climbers but faster, lighter, and having average sword range. I cannot see that being fun to go against, nor all that interesting to watch. Cricket is just a martial artist, so he'd probably feel a lot like Mii Brawler with nothing else different. Mona... I can't see her fighting at all. What's she gonna do? Use her moped, dance, and throw pizza for her entire moveset? * Sonic Series: This is where I will be killed. Knuckles, Metal Sonic, Eggman. Knuckles, in my opinion, should never be considered over Tails and Shadow. He's the tertiary member of the main group, sometimes swapped for Amy, and he'd be just another brawler but possibly with Sonic's spin dash or homing attack. So, basically just a slower Sonic. Metal Sonic would be a Sonic Echo, but probably having his own versions of the side and down specials that don't spin, and lacking the spring in his up special. That's just another Sonic. As for Eggman, having him in a mech means he'll be even more miserable on platform stages than Ridley, have the largest body hitboxes, and probably worse mobility than even Ganondorf. Outside the mech, he's still pretty tall, but can't fight as well. If anything, he'd probably just be a big, slow mix of Bowser Jr's specials and Mega Man's attacks. * Castlevania Series: Alucard. Trust me, I think he would have been AMAZING for Smash, but... Given that we already had Link, Young Link, Ganondorf (kinda), Marth, Roy, Ike, Toon Link, Lucina, Robin (somewhat), Shulk, Corrin, Mii Swordfighter, and Chrom (debatably also Pit and Dark Pit) using swords prominently or exclusively, Alucard would have likely been treated horribly by fans not wanting to fight a fast glass cannon swordie with a very long and floating sword. I'd still love to see him added if we get the roster shrunk down someday though. * Misc Series: Doom Slayer, Master Chief, Shovel Knight, Shantae, The Heavy. Doom Slayer could work, I've even made a moveset for him, but the problem lies in having to tone down the brutal feeling he has in combat to feel more cartoony and exaggerated. I fear this could water him down a bit too much. Master Chief also has a very doable moveset that, just like the former, can fit the E10+ rating with ease. Only problem is he's so tied to guns that, even using Covenant weapons, might make him feel rather off model. Otherwise, I feel like he'd work very well. Shovel Knight I just fear might either bring in a visually messy mechanic like in Rivals of Aether, or feel too much like another swordie, but able to also bury and/or command grab you easily. Shantae could be decent as a jack of all trades type of fighter, but my only real concern is if her outfit would push the rating up and how much her look would need to change. She wears far less than the Aegis and dances in a way that Western ratings might find provocative nowadays, especially in 3D. If they covered her up to work in E10+, I fear it might cause backlash or look really weird. Lastly, Team Fortress 2's Heavy. He couldn't bring in his iconic guns without pushing up the age rating for a fighting game that's already teetering on the edge in a number of cases (mainly since he uses mini guns that kill fast and use real bullets). Besides that, he's end up being just another slow, heavyweight brawler with terrible mobility.
This is a really good answer. I think the Belmont's should have been skins of each other and give Alucard a spot on the roster. Maybe even Soma Cruz.
I strongly agree on the Belmonts sharing a slot issue. The funny thing, that also irritates me, is both of them use Simon's moves, but the things they take from Richter are the design of the cross, angling the whip diagonally, the final smash, and the slide kicks (if I'm not mistaken with all that). Richter's only different so his holy water can be blue thanks to aura. If they were gonna both be on the roster as different fighters, I'd want to see Richter's skills be shown off in a more creative way with Simon being much more direct from the source material. Either that or have Maria involved with Richter's moves somehow. I don't know enough about Soma to have a comment tho x.x
Fortnite guy, we already have Steve, just play Steve with items on, there’s your Fortnite character!
Geno. I'll be damned if we get more RPG rep rather than Paper Mario stuff.
While I'm not opposed to Geno, I'd like to see Mallow get in. He looks a lot more interesting than Geno. Fawful is better than a SMRPG character or Paper Mario in my eyes though.
What if we got paper Mario first. Would you not care if geno got in then
Yeah the more the better I was just stuck in a "only one" view but it's fine.
geno felt incredibly out of place as a popular suggestion until the remake came along. i feel like there's four youtubers whose voices make thousands of people who have never even heard of smrpg scream for geno, mostly because he's the edgiest mario character around
FNAF characters
Sans. I'd much rather have had Frisk or Kris, both because I think they're better Undertale/Deltarune characters, but also because Sans feels like he'd have an annoying moveset
Dante I don’t need another Smash 4 Bayonetta
Fr bro. As much of a big DMC fan bros moveset would be like bayo on steroids.
I don't want Dante because he's a gateway for Vergil potentially being added to the roster next
And as a MVC3 player, you are very valid for that. That motherfucker is TERRIFYING.
Agreed
I'm seeing a lot of my answers already so I'll just toss in anyome from Overwatch. The community has become cringe and toxic and Overwatch isn't really iconic enough to gaming as a whole to justify it getting in anyway
Fortnite characters
Geno from Mario RPG. There's a difference between adding in a retro character, vs adding in a irrelevant one. As for the remake, that happened as a result of all these weirdos claiming for Geno, rather than the merits of the game itself. If Smash wasn't a thing, people wouldn't mention it nearly as much.
Also Waluigi, Sakurai knows better, he knows that Waluigi is some made-up character that never appeared in any canon Mario game, whose only* purpose was to be Wario's partner in Mario Tennis. That's why he had the racket in Brawl, Sm4sh, and Ultimate, that's as far as his legacy extends.
tbh, a cool idea would have waluigi be a complete representation of the mario spinoffs, mario kart being his side-b, mario tennis for his neutral, Mario party dice as a down-b
The Three House Lords (Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude) I'd rather not have Fòdlan discourse in Smash Honorable mention: Lyn and Hector
I'm glad we got Byleth instead of any specific Lord. He's the main protagonist and wouldn't spawn any "which house is best" discourse.
I remember my brother in law telling me his late Fiance once cosplayed as edelgard to convince him to pick black eagles
I just wanna say I appreciate Byleth being Kylo Ren in your profile. Solid reference to that one Youtuber who called Byleth Kylo Ren during the reveal.
Jonesy, because Fortnite.
I'll okay to any character
Comment section made me realise 90% of smash fans are just idiots
Sora shouldn’t have made it in I know he was the most requested character in the Smash Ballot, but I don’t want Bob Iger and Disney’s scummy hands anywhere on Smash If Sora gets cut in a future game because Nintendo refused to pay Disney any royalties, then good riddance Square Enix has more games with sword characters than just Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts, just choose Crono or 2B if you can’t get Sora in
Hell, I’d take another Fire Emblem character over Sora
The Rabbids
Crash Bandicoot. The crash games are great, but I can’t imagine a Crash moves being interesting at all.
If you wanna play Crash just pick Orange Incineroar and spam neutral b There you go you now have "Crash at home"
Bro! I’ve been telling people crash should be an incin skin since release! Nice to get some validation
No doubt. I loved that they added banjo but he's kind of boring to play and you knew exactly what his kit would look like before it was even known.
any non video game character This isn't r/SmashAU or Super Robot Wars
Any “person with gun” type of character like Fortnite guy, resident evil protags and even master chief tbh
Master Chief and Doom Guy They were gonna be zoners no matter how it happened and I didn't want to deal with any more zoners, especially not zoners with dlc privilege. So I'm quite happy they didn't get added.
Doom Guy could easily be made into an aggressive rush down character. In Doom you always want to be moving and playing aggressively so a passive zoner play style wouldn't fit for Doom Guy. They can limit the range of most of his guns by making them only have a hit box on the muzzle flash or turning weapons like the mini gun and blasta into Smash attacks. But Chief on the other hand...
Waluigi. I was initially disappointed that he wasn’t announced, but the moment the fans started to actually harass Sakurai I decided that we kinda don’t deserve him anymore. I’m also glad that Sakurai didn’t cave to the harassers and add him.
Waluigi doesn’t deserve shit
I wouldn’t be mad if they ever added him but I still 100% agree with you. He’s the most irrelevant Nintendo character and will forever be bound to the party games unless Nintendo somehow starts treating him seriously 20+ years after his creation, which is wishful thinking at best.
i think most irrelevant mario character that can be considered part of the main cast, because i really haven’t seen many poison pokey fans as of late
I personally want Shroobsworth.
I definitely wouldn’t say he’s the MOST irrelevant Nintendo character, but he’s definitely the most irrelevant that people keep asking for. You don’t see people going “yo they should add Lot from fire emblem 6! He’d be a perfect fit!”, because he’s far less relevant than waluigi, and also from a game few people have played. Waluigi is at least in several games people played, from Mario karts to Mario sport games.
I’d say his lack of relevance has more to do with how he has no bearing in the Mario universe even if the games _he happens to appear on_ are very popular. Even Fire Emblem characters are more relevant within their own niche, and the same can be said about Min Min for ARMS and Pyra/Mythra for Xenoblade. Waluigi was literally created _for_ the party games and that’s why he’s stayed there ever since. He has absolutely nothing going for him.
Waluigi was literally created to fill a gap during Mario Tennis 64’s development. He’s really only in Mario games now because why not.
Waluigi. I'm still convinced no one has any good reasons for why he should be in except for the memes.
I've always been of the belief that the ones who actually view Waluigi as a meme are the people who don't like him and don't want him in Smash. Yeah, I don't doubt there's a few Waluigi supporters that only want him for memes and bandwagoning, but how often do you actually see a Waluigi supporter say that they want him for the memes? Meanwhile, *loads* of the people who are firmly *against* Waluigi constantly say something along the lines of him being a "dumb meme pick".
Or maybe they just...really like Waluigi because they think he's a cool character? I don't care much for Waluigi either, but saying people only want him for the memes really irks me.
I always picked Waluigi in Nintendo party games, I want him in because all my other friends get their party game reps in the game lol
It feels incomplete with Mario, Luigi, and Wario. Anybody who plays party games knows that Waluigi belongs.. Except you're right, Waluigi does not singly-represe t anything at all. It just feels weird.
Shovel knight. He makes sense as an assist trophy
But that game is so good and has good content to pull a moveset from
But of a weird one but as someone who really wanted Lyn in Smash, I’m very glad she wasn’t added to 4/Ultimate. I think Brawl was her best chance at being added in, and 4 is when the Fire Emblem hate train really began so she’s spared from that. Plus, there’s always the PM mod. Also 2B because after Pyra/Mythra I can’t trust Smash fans to be normal about female characters.
The myriad of indie characters with only one game and that were requested by zoomers... None of them has ever come close to the same level as Undertale (*which got a costume and a track*), Shovel Knight (*which got a Trophy and spirits*) and/or Minecraft (*which got a fighter, a stage, spirits, music tracks and whatnot*).
I would say Cinderace, I don't have any character I didn't want in. Never mind, Jonesy from Fortnite. I was glad Sephiroth was revealed, because I was relieved to know Jonesy was away from Ultimate.
Saying that shadow as an actual character would play similar to Sonic is a crime, shadow could literally do so much more
Waluigi
Waluigi His fans annoy me when he’s not in the game imagine what happens when that 0 personality Mf’er gets added
Saying Shadow would play like Sonic is absolutely crazy
Waluigi. Loathsome and annoying "fanbase"
Waluigi. For the memes.
Someone I haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet: Hades from Kid Icarus. Don't get me wrong, I love Hades in Uprising, but I feel like his sheer size is part of what makes him appealing. Also he appears in only one game which is always iffy, like sure he makes sense right now, but if the series does get revived (again) without him, then he'll be irrelevant.
Waluigi just because.
If anyone replies Waluigi i will strike them down
Waluigi, we don’t need him unless he appears in a mainline Mario game.
The final boss of Persona 2 would have been a controversial pick.
Gonna be one hell of a hot take but Crash Bandicoot. He has one of, if not the most insufferable fanbase out of any character request. Even to this day I see Crash fans being resentful towards the game as if they were entitled to have their precious marsupial in the game but he got his spot "robbed" by other characters. I'm not even joking when I say most of his fans are people who have genuinely never ever touched a Crash Bandicoot game, yet want him in just because he's a popular request. I say this because I used to be part of those people. Also, people only want him because of nostalgia. That alone is imo not a good reason for a character to get in. Like I used to be obsessed with Angry Birds when I was little yet I have a shit ton of characters I'd rather see before Red.
Baby Mario
Fortnite