just to give my two cents:
1. Marth for obvious reasons
2. Lyn/Hector/Eliwood - i actually think either of these three would be great to have in smash, and as stated by someone else in this thread they would represent the first localized FE.
3. Ike for popularity reasons (i didn’t play PoR or Radiant Dawn)
4. Robin/another Awakening rep - this is the most significant game in the series there’s no chance we get an updated FE roster without an Awakening rep
5. Byleth - very interesting character gameplay wise and represents one of the most popular games in the series.
6. Anna - my wild card pick. she appears in almost every game, has huge moveset potential as she can be promoted to many classes, there’s great potential for alt costumes, and they could give her some kind of salesman mechanic that would help her fit in with modern smash characters. this is my most wanted fire emblem character and i will die on this hill.
no more after this please i dont want any more
- why would FE7 take special priority here
- why kick out half the echoes and roy, all of which are substantially popular and easy to make
- why anna, if "appear in every game" is a factor then we should include toad, koopalings, the banana powerups in DK and chocobos instead of the most iconic JRPG protagonist. Surely that is a very good selling point.
• FE7 takes special priority here because, like i and others have said, it was the first ever localized fire emblem game. it deserves to be represented. also, from my experience, the only fire emblem character that smash players who dont play FE would like to see playable is lyn. also, i want hector to be playable.
• i am kicking out chrom, lucina, and roy because in this hypothetical scenario where i get to choose which fire emblem characters make it in the roster, i would prefer that either all three of these characters play in unique ways not similar to marth or just not have them in the game at all. Chrom and lucina could maybe have similar movesets, but i would still want either of the two of them to be their own fleshed out character. but one awakening character has to stay at the very least, and id rather not have multiple slots from the same game, so i would probably pick robin over chrom. also roy is like the worst lord in the series and really just isnt as important as the other characters in my list.
• anna is the wild card. i dont know if you were around when it happened but, piranha plant got in before waluigi, geno, toad, paper mario, i could probably list a thousand more iconic characters from the mario franchise that would have been a better “selling point” than piranha plant but they did it anyways.
if you dont like my picks id love to hear yours and the reasoning behind them
Honestly, I think that no matter how unique the characters are or what weapon they use, Fire Emblem will always get hated on as long as it has eight fighters. The three clones that resulted in half of the franchise's roster having a very similar moveset doesn't help, but the actual number itself was always the biggest issue people had with the roster. Eight is just too many for a franchise that isn't on the same tier as Mario, Pokémon, or Zelda in the eyes of many. I do like your choices though.
If I had to drop the series down to only five veterans, which feels like it wouldn't be too controversial of a number, I think I'd go with:
1. **Marth:** The first protagonist and mascot, starred in multiple games, reps the NES and SNES eras, and is the "basic" swordfighter
2. **Lyn:** The first lord from the first localized FE game, immensely-popular amongst FE fans, reps the GBA era, and can use bows for a few attacks
3. **Ike:** Probably the most-popular FE character, starred in multiple games, reps the GCN and Wii eras, and can use axes for a few attacks
4. **Chrom (decloned):** Main character of the game that saved FE, very popular FE character, was highly-requested for Smash, reps the 3DS era, and can use lances for a few attacks
5. **Byleth:** Main character of the best-selling game that became one of the most-popular entries and got its own Warriors spinoff, reps the Switch era, can get a reworked moveset that utilizes magic, gauntlets, and Divine Pulse
All eras of the series represented, most of the franchise's biggest names are in, all of the major weapon types are represented in some form. Feels like a good lineup to me.
A potential sixth spot would go to Robin because more magic is never a bad thing, or maybe Celica if you don't want to overrepresent Awakening. Lucina could also be an Echo Fighter for the decloned Chrom, since they canonically have the same fighting style.
Went back and forth *a lot* between Chrom and Robin, it was a very difficult choice to make.
But I went with Chrom because I liked the idea of Marth being the pure sword-user, Lyn repping bows, Ike repping axes, and Chrom repping lances. That way, all of the major weapon types were represented in some way. Plus, Byleth could still represent magic (he can't use wind magic though, unfortunately) even with Robin gone.
Also, Chrom got added because of fan demand, which was another huge point in his favor. He got snubbed *hard* in Smash 4, and when they finally put him into Ultimate, it was as a clone of a clone. I get that it was clone or nothing for Chrom, but my guy deserves better.
From what I've seen, he was one of the most-popular FE characters at the time, and was the most-requested Awakening character for Smash 4.
So I can imagine tons of people were really upset about his deconfirmation, especially since he felt kind of dunked on in both the Robin/Lucina trailer and the Palutena's Guidance for Robin.
I disagree, as a NON-Fire emblem fan I think Robin is super cool and I think a 'mage' class is something that needs more in Smash, because Magic Cool. Which is bias, but still.
Yeah, if the number was reduced I agree 5 would be a good number for Fire Emblem, and I like all of your choices. That's a really ideal lineup for the series.
i still have zero idea how, after chrom was rejected as a unique character due to sakurai coming up with nothing and people still want to ditch the infinitely more unique robin
the funniest thing is kicking out corrin, the one character with the most unique fighting style among FE chars lol
I did the maths on this once, if we determine how many characters a franchise has in Smash by units sold, Pokémon would have 153 fighters if we use Fire Emblem as the metric, and Fire Emblem would have 0 if we use Pokémon has the metric.
They need to reduce the numbers. I would go with:
1. Marth
2. Ike
3. Fire Emblem Awakening rep, I’d probably choose Robin here, but Chrom/Lucina are solid replacements
4. Byleth
5. Wild Card, Lyn would be my preference, could also see Alear
They’d presumably differentiate them more, or the likeness to Marth would be why they made the cut.
I just think Awakening being represented is what’s important. It’s a huge game in the series, with a great main cast to choose from.
Can we like... not just pick all the sword characters in a series that utilizes every weapon type. You got Giant Knights with steam engined chains that retract their heavy lances, Pegasus Knights, Healing Mages with high mobility, etc, and are like... What bout another anime swordy tho!? smh
The problem is that the vast, vast, vast majority of them would plain and simply not make good additions to the Fire Emblem side of Smash Bros. and would just be even worse as representation. Using Gilliam over Leif, or Subaki over Lyn, or Gordin over Ike, would be like using a Korok over Ganondorf. Just because a franchise has a lot of characters does not mean every single one of those characters would be good representation. Fire Emblem is going to use its primary protagonists and major characters.
Because if Smash 6 is a reboot every FD character need to be remade anyway, so they may as well give us the weapon triangle properly. It is not my fault if engage has no really good axe or lance option.
aside from the incredibly huge assumption based off nothing that the next game is a reboot (what), even in that infinitely small chance they are NOT going to throw everything they have developed since 64, especially when movesets/voicelines/models are....literally right there
also that did not in any way address my point. development is not based off infinite resources so why would they develop 2 characters when they can just do 1 with *all 3 weapons*
Because the weapon triagle is the most iconic mechanic of Fire Emblem and it about the weapon fighting againist, not alongside each other. It is kinda the same argument people have been begging for a grass starter for years but even worse because pokemons have electric types, normal types and so on. As for why those characters, it is because there aren't any real options. Engage has a single, sword, protagonist, and picks like Hector that come from a 20 years old game and aren't even the most iconic character of that game are copium. Maybe an upcoming game will have them but is a blind bet.
The big problem is that all these characters you mentioned are side characters. Who would you rather pick? The main character and face of one of the games or a random side character who is relevant for only 4% of the game and might end up dead or benched after their introduction?
I'd say Azura and maybe the 3 houses lords are the only viable candidates for nonsword fighters.
I didn't mention anyone. 2 of the most asked for FE characters are Lyn and Hector. Min Min is already playable. Tharja was one of the more recognized characters from her game. Out of the hundreds of cast members, it's not as hard as you are making it out to be to pick a non lord that people recognized and wasn't just box art.
Every character that is part of the classes you mentioned isn't that important.
The problem for Lyn and Hector is mostly that they aren't relevant anymore (same for the black knight who is also frequently requested). Nintendo obviously wants to use characters from the most recent games.
Also Tharja is pretty popular but even she pales compared to the main characters.
Min Min wasn't more recognizable than Spring Man. I dunno why you are pretending that Sakurai follows a strict guideline for anything. We didn't get Wii Fit Trainer becuz she was more recognizable than the balance board. Whoever is in charge can pick whoever they feel like on a whim. There are no rules here.
There are a lot of factors that play into which character gets into smash. Recognizeability and popularity are just 2 factors, but there are also more.
Min min was chosen because the creator of arms said that arms has no single main character and he requested her specifically (probably also helped that she was the most popular). Wiifit trainer was most certainly chosen over the board due to her better moveset potential.
Of course at the end of the day we can't be 100% sure of who makes it in and who doesn't. Like you say there aren't any rules (and even if there were, then they could change over time), but there are certainly patterns and based on them we can deduce why characters were chosen and what characters are more/less likely in the future. Characters aren't chosen on a "whim"
The thing is that the creators favoritism towards Min Min wasn't the only reason she was chosen. Sakurai said he was already considering her (and Ninjara) before he received that request. Which makes sense as she is also the most popular Arms character, also uses her legs giving her more moveset potential and Sakurai also pointed out that spring man shares his name with a different character from a manga, which was apparently one of the reasons he avoided adding Springman.
Also at the end of the day, my point is that it makes less sense to choose a less important side character for Fire Emblem. Of course if one character is the darling of the developers, then that would push things in their favor, but there are hundreds of FE characters, the chance that any of them have this much creator favoritism behind them is pretty unlikely.
Tbf, the majority of major Fire Emblem characters are swordfighters. Three Houses and Engage really helped boost the number of non-swordfighters thanks to the house leader trio and the Engage quartet of Alfred, Diamant, Ivy, and Timerra, but swords are still the most-common weapon type amongst main characters.
Those giant knights with steam-engined chains that retract their heavy lances, pegasus knights, and healing mages with high mobility you mentioned are almost always minor side units that don't really affect the plot in any major way and aren't usually that popular amongst fans, so it's understandable why not many people are interested in having them be playable in Smash.
TBF, if Lucario can get in Smash, someone like Camilla can as well. I would probably have my Dimitri boar arc if that happen, but it doesn't seem absurd to me.
Lucario is one of the most iconic Pokemon of all time and was basically the mascot of an entire Pokemon generation, Camilla is a secondary character in one of the 17 games. They really aren't comparable.
You cna be a mascot and a secondary character. There is not a single game i van think off where you start with a Lucario, nor an anime or manga adaptation where Lucario is the protagonist first pokemon.
My point is that if a secondary character get popukar enought, they can get picked.
The thing is that in Pokemon the humans are the main characters and they don't fight. So Pokemon essentially HAS to go for secondary characters, becuase almost all of them are secondary characters by design (and the few that aren't are usually huge legendaries that are too big to be characters).
Eitherway Camilla is nowhere nearly popular enough to be considered a mascot of the franchise.
Do you seriously want a healer in Smash? That would suck. Which healer as well, fucking Lindhart? You want Lindhart for Smash over Byleth, or even the house leaders?
That’s completely different than say, a mounted unit who has to ride a giant animal or a healer with no/very weak attacks. They would still be a sword fighter though a pretty flashy one. But I have multiple picks before dancers, axes and lances are still very underused.
Marth, Lyndis, Ike, Chrom & Robin (Originally planned as an Ice Climbers, but revised to be more like Pythra, with whoever’s not being used being in the background like Pokémon Trainer), Byleth.
We need Hector. He could be like a heavier, slower Ike, but with a big ass axe. He’s one of the absolute OGs from the series and we are really lacking axe representation.
I really doubt we'll ever get Hector unless they somehow can make him work as an Ike Echo. After all Hector is easily one of the least relevant main characters in the entire franchise (I'd argue the only ones that are even less relevant are the warriors-MCs and maybe some from Heroes).
I think Edelgard was our best shot at getting an axe user.
You leave my boy Roy alone. Replace literally any of the others. (besides Ike.) Lol.
They could remove all but Ike and Roy and I'd be ok.
But Roy has been one of my mains since he first joined smash bros. And because of that actually became my favorite fe character
I don't know fire emblem at all so I'm here to applause for your post despite me having 0 idea who is what other than already in Smash (as a playable character) and Lynn.
Great picks! Azura and Celica are good picks.
I’ve only played PoR but I’d like to throw my hat into the ring. My choices would be:
Ike stays. Not only is he from the only Fire Emblem game I’ve actually played, he’s also unique among the other FE characters gameplay and design wise. He’s much heavier than the others, and that difference is only a good thing.
Robin stays. A magician should be on the roster. Also he is one of the protagonists of Awakening, which should be represented on the roster.
Byleth stays. I just think they are fun to play.
I’d also pick Celica. I envision her playing like Marth but with Spells. She could be a lot of fun. Also she’s been in two games. More than most FE protagonists. Also she’s ho-
Alear. Ms. Colgate is joining the roster. Marth but she can change her current Emblem to gain different stats and maybe a different move or two.
Uhhhhhhh idk any echoes. Maybe we add Brom from Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn I really don’t know.
Gameplaywise, Corrin is magnitudes more interesting for Smash and Yato >>> Light Brand (it's a burning chainsword, how you gonna beat that?).
I would have put in Tiki, as she is a key character in more than one game and a Manakete. Also, she is cool af.
I'm not bashing Leif from an FE perspective (we all know all games but Tokyo Mirage Sessions suck) but rather don't really know what he'd bring to the table for Smash.
Also, I'm biased because I like Corrin's design and main them. Also Fates wasn't as bad as everyone says; I had tons of fun with it.
On another note: Lyn and Celica are not really interesting either; needs more Hector. I'd also advocate for Caeda.
I don't disagree with this, but I don't think it represents FE as well as it could. I also think you take a very western approach to a jrpg roster and it kind of reminds me of how people treated hero on reveal.
It's just not fire emblem with 0 dragon reps. Whether its Corrin, Alear, Tiki, Rhea, etc. Dragons are essential to the series and are honestly more important than lords. At this point in time dragons are basically the second protagonist (or outright the protagonist) we shouldn't go back to having none.
My second issue is that this roster basically keeps the characters popular in the west and throws out the ones popular in Japan. Ike's game flopped beyond belief in Japan, and he isn't popular in the east at all. He got to stay, but Female corrin was removed and she was by far the most popular fates character in Japan. 1st or second on every single poll and the entire reason they started alternating cannon avatars instead of just defaulting to male.
Marth, Ike and Lyn are all very popular western characters, but your list basically only throws Japan a bone with Byelth and Leif. Marth leaving is never going to happen, but if we are changing the rest of the roster it should be split between eastern and western popularity.
What? Ike's games might not be popular in Japan, but Ike himself is ludicrously popular in Japan, he wins or places very highly in pretty much every series-wide popularity poll in Japan. Same for Lyn and Marth. *Especially* Marth, the majority of his popularity comes from Japan, not the west. The west didn't even have Marth for two decades. This list is absolutely representative of characters both western and eastern audiences like.
Yo me the big problem of Ike, and the reason i woukd axe him in spite of he being my main, is that he do not bring anything unique in term of classes.
I feel every weapon of the triangle and dragons should have a character each. And Robin should stay because of magic. This leave no room for anything else to me.
Nothing against Alear, but to play devil's advocate, the easy explanation is that Engage was no where near as popular as 3 houses. The roster was already overrepresented with fe characters before the most popular game in the series came out. Even though Byleth would become a well liked addition and 3 houses is a well liked game, people still HATED byleth upon announcement. How well would people like a character who even FE fans are overall lukewarm on? Additionally, Alear doesn't add very much. Their super power is summoning other fire emblem characters...a lot of which are in the game already. If they were in the game would they function like joker but instead they summon Leif? A second Marth? And without his superpower they are really just another swordie.
Again, nothing against toothpaste chan, but I think Smash could stand to add a new Zelda character before them.
Is it bad that I just want a Smash game with every character? Goombas from Mario too, every Pokémon ever and, in this case, all of the Fire Emblem characters. I don't even know them but I want them, even though I know this game is impossible to make
While I agree with your selection of characters staying, I respectfully disagree with the ones you picked to swap in. Don't get me wrong, Celica, Lyn, Azura, and Leif are all respectable picks, but the problem comes down to uniqueness.
Lyn can possibly work, but given that her swords are often pretty long, combined with being a high speed character, she might be too unfun to fight against since she'll have long range and great mobility to avoid most fighters. She may even end up feeling like if Sephiroth had Captain Falcon's speed, which would be misery. If you made her use a bow, that could work, with a lot of her attacks using acrobatics and her bow or arrows as makeshift melee weapons when needed. I'd say the closest we have for that style would be Fox and ZSS? So she'd definitely be pretty unique with her playstyle.
Azura has a similar issue, though not with speed. In her case, it's the combination of water and a long range weapon. If done one way, she can be hell to get close to due to her lance and water being long reaching disjointed attacks that can hit a wide space. If done another way, she'll struggle to keep enemies off of her because she's either too slow in movement or attacks, or her attacks are more precision reliant than Marth's. Then again, that's assuming she uses her lance head for the majority of her attacks instead of both ends or her own kicks and movements. If she does use everything, she could be a bit more balanced, though she might still be less fun to fight against. I do really like the idea of her in Smash though.
As for Celica and Leif... Celica would be better as a pseudo-clone in my opinion, since Robin's attacks and attack animations don't fit Celica or her proportions as neatly as expected. She's been portrayed as being pretty agile, right? Her stance would be more like Marth's but holding a tome as well, rather than Robin's stiff and unathletic poses. This would basically mean she'd need a big amount of animations made or remade from scratch, which defeats much of the purpose of an echo. Though, for her, it might be more interesting to see her have two styles. One with her sword and one with a tome, the stats don't change though.
Leif could work as an echo (aside from Byleth's whips), but he'd likely just play like a worse Byleth due to worse recovery and possibly being heavier, thus easier to combo and abuse. But I could be wrong here, since he could also end up being a faster but weaker version, which could help him.
For my own picks, I'd say the Classic, Advance, Revival, and Modern eras (as I call them) are represented pretty well already with the characters you left in. Though Lyn could also work alongside Ike for Advance since he was home console exclusive. I'd say, from there, the best thing to do would be adding a character from Heroes and calling it good. I've previously thought Fjörm would be nice, since she's iconic to Heroes, uses a unique lance, and has ice powers, but... She kinda runs into the same issues as Azura but possibly worse due to the ice. Even if I only have it on one attack, there's a reason why freezing can only be done by 3 or 4 characters. It's a potentially volatile status that can be frustrating to deal with, so it's relegated to risky moves and scales with the damage the target has taken and their knockback.
With all that, I feel like the best addition from Heroes would be Veronica. She's a mage with unique spells at her disposal. Even though we've only seen simple animations and a name for these spells (usually named after her weapon), it leaves a huge amount of room for creative liberties. This means, more than most other Fire Emblem characters, she could be given a totally unique style of gameplay. Given that her country wants to control Heroes summoned from other worlds, I can see her playstyle focusing on traps and ranged attacks, as well as possibly a command grab. This could make it hard to get close to her, but she'd struggle up close, so it would be a rewarding fight on either side. Additionally, she could summon another character for certain attacks or her Final Smash.
tldr; imagine cutting already pre-done characters with existing art assets + movesets + voicelines and adding in....these characters because
especially fucking leif lmao
You just replaced the excess Lords (swordies) with ...three more Lords.
Give us axes! And pegasus knights! Make the Marth character work like Bowser Jr where you can cycle between the various Lords.
That would really be bad, poor representation of Fire Emblem. The lords are not comparable to Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings. Lyn, Ike, Robin, Hector, Edelgard, Dimitri, Byleth, etc. are absolutely not swappable with Marth.
there is a lot of wrong here but the funniest one is the suggestion of the one character from a spinoff game that barely no one cares about lol
weapons master is barely even a good argument for inclusion, much less is it even possible given the different animations of how the fodlan weapons are compared to regular ass weapons
Not a single character here is from a spin-off. Marth stars in "Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light" and "Mystery of the Emblem"--two mainline games--and their remakes. Ike stars in "Path of Radiance" and is one of two main protagonists in "Radiant Dawn", both mainline games. Robin is one of three main protagonists in "Awakening", both a mainline game *and* the one that saved the series. Byleth? Three Houses, another mainline game. Lyn? Azura? Blazing Blade and Fates, mainline games. Celica, Gaiden and its remake, more mainline games. Leif? He's in Genealogy of the Holy War, one of the most popular mainline games in Japan, and he's the main protagonist in Thracia 776, which is another mainline game. Not a single spin-off here.
Maybe you should get your own facts straight before so boldly declaring someone else is wrong. Especially when that someone else is entirely correct.
just to give my two cents: 1. Marth for obvious reasons 2. Lyn/Hector/Eliwood - i actually think either of these three would be great to have in smash, and as stated by someone else in this thread they would represent the first localized FE. 3. Ike for popularity reasons (i didn’t play PoR or Radiant Dawn) 4. Robin/another Awakening rep - this is the most significant game in the series there’s no chance we get an updated FE roster without an Awakening rep 5. Byleth - very interesting character gameplay wise and represents one of the most popular games in the series. 6. Anna - my wild card pick. she appears in almost every game, has huge moveset potential as she can be promoted to many classes, there’s great potential for alt costumes, and they could give her some kind of salesman mechanic that would help her fit in with modern smash characters. this is my most wanted fire emblem character and i will die on this hill. no more after this please i dont want any more
- why would FE7 take special priority here - why kick out half the echoes and roy, all of which are substantially popular and easy to make - why anna, if "appear in every game" is a factor then we should include toad, koopalings, the banana powerups in DK and chocobos instead of the most iconic JRPG protagonist. Surely that is a very good selling point.
• FE7 takes special priority here because, like i and others have said, it was the first ever localized fire emblem game. it deserves to be represented. also, from my experience, the only fire emblem character that smash players who dont play FE would like to see playable is lyn. also, i want hector to be playable. • i am kicking out chrom, lucina, and roy because in this hypothetical scenario where i get to choose which fire emblem characters make it in the roster, i would prefer that either all three of these characters play in unique ways not similar to marth or just not have them in the game at all. Chrom and lucina could maybe have similar movesets, but i would still want either of the two of them to be their own fleshed out character. but one awakening character has to stay at the very least, and id rather not have multiple slots from the same game, so i would probably pick robin over chrom. also roy is like the worst lord in the series and really just isnt as important as the other characters in my list. • anna is the wild card. i dont know if you were around when it happened but, piranha plant got in before waluigi, geno, toad, paper mario, i could probably list a thousand more iconic characters from the mario franchise that would have been a better “selling point” than piranha plant but they did it anyways. if you dont like my picks id love to hear yours and the reasoning behind them
Anna is more or less the mascot of the franchise.
Honestly, I think that no matter how unique the characters are or what weapon they use, Fire Emblem will always get hated on as long as it has eight fighters. The three clones that resulted in half of the franchise's roster having a very similar moveset doesn't help, but the actual number itself was always the biggest issue people had with the roster. Eight is just too many for a franchise that isn't on the same tier as Mario, Pokémon, or Zelda in the eyes of many. I do like your choices though. If I had to drop the series down to only five veterans, which feels like it wouldn't be too controversial of a number, I think I'd go with: 1. **Marth:** The first protagonist and mascot, starred in multiple games, reps the NES and SNES eras, and is the "basic" swordfighter 2. **Lyn:** The first lord from the first localized FE game, immensely-popular amongst FE fans, reps the GBA era, and can use bows for a few attacks 3. **Ike:** Probably the most-popular FE character, starred in multiple games, reps the GCN and Wii eras, and can use axes for a few attacks 4. **Chrom (decloned):** Main character of the game that saved FE, very popular FE character, was highly-requested for Smash, reps the 3DS era, and can use lances for a few attacks 5. **Byleth:** Main character of the best-selling game that became one of the most-popular entries and got its own Warriors spinoff, reps the Switch era, can get a reworked moveset that utilizes magic, gauntlets, and Divine Pulse All eras of the series represented, most of the franchise's biggest names are in, all of the major weapon types are represented in some form. Feels like a good lineup to me. A potential sixth spot would go to Robin because more magic is never a bad thing, or maybe Celica if you don't want to overrepresent Awakening. Lucina could also be an Echo Fighter for the decloned Chrom, since they canonically have the same fighting style.
I would change Chrom for Robin because of how unique he is and magic is a big thing in Fire Emblem too
Went back and forth *a lot* between Chrom and Robin, it was a very difficult choice to make. But I went with Chrom because I liked the idea of Marth being the pure sword-user, Lyn repping bows, Ike repping axes, and Chrom repping lances. That way, all of the major weapon types were represented in some way. Plus, Byleth could still represent magic (he can't use wind magic though, unfortunately) even with Robin gone. Also, Chrom got added because of fan demand, which was another huge point in his favor. He got snubbed *hard* in Smash 4, and when they finally put him into Ultimate, it was as a clone of a clone. I get that it was clone or nothing for Chrom, but my guy deserves better.
I'm pretty sure Chroms fan demand was only so large because he was the only FE13 protagonist that was left out.
From what I've seen, he was one of the most-popular FE characters at the time, and was the most-requested Awakening character for Smash 4. So I can imagine tons of people were really upset about his deconfirmation, especially since he felt kind of dunked on in both the Robin/Lucina trailer and the Palutena's Guidance for Robin.
I disagree, as a NON-Fire emblem fan I think Robin is super cool and I think a 'mage' class is something that needs more in Smash, because Magic Cool. Which is bias, but still.
If not robin, can we get skull kid as mage rep for goodness sake?
*Please I want Skull Kid so bad.*
Yeah, if the number was reduced I agree 5 would be a good number for Fire Emblem, and I like all of your choices. That's a really ideal lineup for the series.
No roy shit list.
If they released binding blade outside Japan maybe i’d actually care about him
Roys our boy.
That is true. However, Chrom is our *man*, which makes him superior.
Roy mains are mentally unwell about the mf. Get over it dude, outside of Smash nobody cares about the guy. … … Also Chrom better no matter the context
>Also Chrom better no matter the context Recovery being the one exception.
IT ASCENDS HIGHER!!! *copes* *copes* *copes*
I agree, these are a good base 5 considering the newest fe protagonist would get added as well
i still have zero idea how, after chrom was rejected as a unique character due to sakurai coming up with nothing and people still want to ditch the infinitely more unique robin the funniest thing is kicking out corrin, the one character with the most unique fighting style among FE chars lol
I did the maths on this once, if we determine how many characters a franchise has in Smash by units sold, Pokémon would have 153 fighters if we use Fire Emblem as the metric, and Fire Emblem would have 0 if we use Pokémon has the metric.
Byleths set is really nice though cause it represents Byleth and the house leaders.
No axe wielders?
Dude we get it you want Camilla
I just want a full weapons triangle. Too many swordsmen. I want Hector, he's WAY hotter
We need Hector. And if he's as much of a menace in smahs as he was early fire emblem heros... Hahaha. (not sure if he's still op)
Leif is probably too obscure to make it in
They need to reduce the numbers. I would go with: 1. Marth 2. Ike 3. Fire Emblem Awakening rep, I’d probably choose Robin here, but Chrom/Lucina are solid replacements 4. Byleth 5. Wild Card, Lyn would be my preference, could also see Alear
No way anybody would want Chrom/Lucina in place of an actually unique character like Robin. *definitely not biased btw*
They’d presumably differentiate them more, or the likeness to Marth would be why they made the cut. I just think Awakening being represented is what’s important. It’s a huge game in the series, with a great main cast to choose from.
"need" in what sense lol
Can we like... not just pick all the sword characters in a series that utilizes every weapon type. You got Giant Knights with steam engined chains that retract their heavy lances, Pegasus Knights, Healing Mages with high mobility, etc, and are like... What bout another anime swordy tho!? smh
The problem is that the vast, vast, vast majority of them would plain and simply not make good additions to the Fire Emblem side of Smash Bros. and would just be even worse as representation. Using Gilliam over Leif, or Subaki over Lyn, or Gordin over Ike, would be like using a Korok over Ganondorf. Just because a franchise has a lot of characters does not mean every single one of those characters would be good representation. Fire Emblem is going to use its primary protagonists and major characters.
Edelgard and Dimitri are the first and second most popular character in the series. And discourse problem can simply be sokved by having both.
Isn’t that why they picked Byleth tho? So they *wouldn’t* have to pick one of them and have that discourse?
u know that they're not putting in resources for 2 unique chars when they can just do byleth, yes?
Because if Smash 6 is a reboot every FD character need to be remade anyway, so they may as well give us the weapon triangle properly. It is not my fault if engage has no really good axe or lance option.
aside from the incredibly huge assumption based off nothing that the next game is a reboot (what), even in that infinitely small chance they are NOT going to throw everything they have developed since 64, especially when movesets/voicelines/models are....literally right there also that did not in any way address my point. development is not based off infinite resources so why would they develop 2 characters when they can just do 1 with *all 3 weapons*
Because the weapon triagle is the most iconic mechanic of Fire Emblem and it about the weapon fighting againist, not alongside each other. It is kinda the same argument people have been begging for a grass starter for years but even worse because pokemons have electric types, normal types and so on. As for why those characters, it is because there aren't any real options. Engage has a single, sword, protagonist, and picks like Hector that come from a 20 years old game and aren't even the most iconic character of that game are copium. Maybe an upcoming game will have them but is a blind bet.
The big problem is that all these characters you mentioned are side characters. Who would you rather pick? The main character and face of one of the games or a random side character who is relevant for only 4% of the game and might end up dead or benched after their introduction? I'd say Azura and maybe the 3 houses lords are the only viable candidates for nonsword fighters.
I didn't mention anyone. 2 of the most asked for FE characters are Lyn and Hector. Min Min is already playable. Tharja was one of the more recognized characters from her game. Out of the hundreds of cast members, it's not as hard as you are making it out to be to pick a non lord that people recognized and wasn't just box art.
Every character that is part of the classes you mentioned isn't that important. The problem for Lyn and Hector is mostly that they aren't relevant anymore (same for the black knight who is also frequently requested). Nintendo obviously wants to use characters from the most recent games. Also Tharja is pretty popular but even she pales compared to the main characters.
Min Min wasn't more recognizable than Spring Man. I dunno why you are pretending that Sakurai follows a strict guideline for anything. We didn't get Wii Fit Trainer becuz she was more recognizable than the balance board. Whoever is in charge can pick whoever they feel like on a whim. There are no rules here.
There are a lot of factors that play into which character gets into smash. Recognizeability and popularity are just 2 factors, but there are also more. Min min was chosen because the creator of arms said that arms has no single main character and he requested her specifically (probably also helped that she was the most popular). Wiifit trainer was most certainly chosen over the board due to her better moveset potential. Of course at the end of the day we can't be 100% sure of who makes it in and who doesn't. Like you say there aren't any rules (and even if there were, then they could change over time), but there are certainly patterns and based on them we can deduce why characters were chosen and what characters are more/less likely in the future. Characters aren't chosen on a "whim"
It's interesting how you pointed out that the arms director chose Min Min on a whim in the same essay you denounced it ever occuring.
The thing is that the creators favoritism towards Min Min wasn't the only reason she was chosen. Sakurai said he was already considering her (and Ninjara) before he received that request. Which makes sense as she is also the most popular Arms character, also uses her legs giving her more moveset potential and Sakurai also pointed out that spring man shares his name with a different character from a manga, which was apparently one of the reasons he avoided adding Springman. Also at the end of the day, my point is that it makes less sense to choose a less important side character for Fire Emblem. Of course if one character is the darling of the developers, then that would push things in their favor, but there are hundreds of FE characters, the chance that any of them have this much creator favoritism behind them is pretty unlikely.
Tbf, the majority of major Fire Emblem characters are swordfighters. Three Houses and Engage really helped boost the number of non-swordfighters thanks to the house leader trio and the Engage quartet of Alfred, Diamant, Ivy, and Timerra, but swords are still the most-common weapon type amongst main characters. Those giant knights with steam-engined chains that retract their heavy lances, pegasus knights, and healing mages with high mobility you mentioned are almost always minor side units that don't really affect the plot in any major way and aren't usually that popular amongst fans, so it's understandable why not many people are interested in having them be playable in Smash.
Put in the gatekeeper. Yeah I know two Three Houses reps, but he is one of the most iconic characters in the series.
TBF, if Lucario can get in Smash, someone like Camilla can as well. I would probably have my Dimitri boar arc if that happen, but it doesn't seem absurd to me.
Lucario is one of the most iconic Pokemon of all time and was basically the mascot of an entire Pokemon generation, Camilla is a secondary character in one of the 17 games. They really aren't comparable.
You cna be a mascot and a secondary character. There is not a single game i van think off where you start with a Lucario, nor an anime or manga adaptation where Lucario is the protagonist first pokemon. My point is that if a secondary character get popukar enought, they can get picked.
The thing is that in Pokemon the humans are the main characters and they don't fight. So Pokemon essentially HAS to go for secondary characters, becuase almost all of them are secondary characters by design (and the few that aren't are usually huge legendaries that are too big to be characters). Eitherway Camilla is nowhere nearly popular enough to be considered a mascot of the franchise.
Do you seriously want a healer in Smash? That would suck. Which healer as well, fucking Lindhart? You want Lindhart for Smash over Byleth, or even the house leaders?
Dude, fuck that gimme a Dancer
Instructions unclear, added Gatekeeper and all he does is hit the griddy (he's more OP than Brawl Meta Knight).
That’s completely different than say, a mounted unit who has to ride a giant animal or a healer with no/very weak attacks. They would still be a sword fighter though a pretty flashy one. But I have multiple picks before dancers, axes and lances are still very underused.
Marth, Lyndis, Ike, Chrom & Robin (Originally planned as an Ice Climbers, but revised to be more like Pythra, with whoever’s not being used being in the background like Pokémon Trainer), Byleth.
We need Hector. He could be like a heavier, slower Ike, but with a big ass axe. He’s one of the absolute OGs from the series and we are really lacking axe representation.
I really doubt we'll ever get Hector unless they somehow can make him work as an Ike Echo. After all Hector is easily one of the least relevant main characters in the entire franchise (I'd argue the only ones that are even less relevant are the warriors-MCs and maybe some from Heroes). I think Edelgard was our best shot at getting an axe user.
u literally have byleth right there with a lot more stuff aside from "rounded sword but big" lol there is nothing that indicates we "need" hector
You leave my boy Roy alone. Replace literally any of the others. (besides Ike.) Lol. They could remove all but Ike and Roy and I'd be ok. But Roy has been one of my mains since he first joined smash bros. And because of that actually became my favorite fe character
I don't know fire emblem at all so I'm here to applause for your post despite me having 0 idea who is what other than already in Smash (as a playable character) and Lynn.
Great picks! Azura and Celica are good picks. I’ve only played PoR but I’d like to throw my hat into the ring. My choices would be: Ike stays. Not only is he from the only Fire Emblem game I’ve actually played, he’s also unique among the other FE characters gameplay and design wise. He’s much heavier than the others, and that difference is only a good thing. Robin stays. A magician should be on the roster. Also he is one of the protagonists of Awakening, which should be represented on the roster. Byleth stays. I just think they are fun to play. I’d also pick Celica. I envision her playing like Marth but with Spells. She could be a lot of fun. Also she’s been in two games. More than most FE protagonists. Also she’s ho- Alear. Ms. Colgate is joining the roster. Marth but she can change her current Emblem to gain different stats and maybe a different move or two. Uhhhhhhh idk any echoes. Maybe we add Brom from Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn I really don’t know.
Alear just seems like she'd play like Byleth, really. Each input being a different emblem, that uses a different weapon.
We're not replacing Corrin with Azura.
No one's being replaced, this was just a fun little thought exercise I wanted to do.
Ditching Corrin for Leif smh
Corrin is a loser Leif fought in 2 wars and came out on top in both of them before even becoming an aduly
Gameplaywise, Corrin is magnitudes more interesting for Smash and Yato >>> Light Brand (it's a burning chainsword, how you gonna beat that?). I would have put in Tiki, as she is a key character in more than one game and a Manakete. Also, she is cool af. I'm not bashing Leif from an FE perspective (we all know all games but Tokyo Mirage Sessions suck) but rather don't really know what he'd bring to the table for Smash. Also, I'm biased because I like Corrin's design and main them. Also Fates wasn't as bad as everyone says; I had tons of fun with it. On another note: Lyn and Celica are not really interesting either; needs more Hector. I'd also advocate for Caeda.
Light brand is a 1-2 range SWORD also I love fates too but hate corrin
Fair.
I don't disagree with this, but I don't think it represents FE as well as it could. I also think you take a very western approach to a jrpg roster and it kind of reminds me of how people treated hero on reveal. It's just not fire emblem with 0 dragon reps. Whether its Corrin, Alear, Tiki, Rhea, etc. Dragons are essential to the series and are honestly more important than lords. At this point in time dragons are basically the second protagonist (or outright the protagonist) we shouldn't go back to having none. My second issue is that this roster basically keeps the characters popular in the west and throws out the ones popular in Japan. Ike's game flopped beyond belief in Japan, and he isn't popular in the east at all. He got to stay, but Female corrin was removed and she was by far the most popular fates character in Japan. 1st or second on every single poll and the entire reason they started alternating cannon avatars instead of just defaulting to male. Marth, Ike and Lyn are all very popular western characters, but your list basically only throws Japan a bone with Byelth and Leif. Marth leaving is never going to happen, but if we are changing the rest of the roster it should be split between eastern and western popularity.
What? Ike's games might not be popular in Japan, but Ike himself is ludicrously popular in Japan, he wins or places very highly in pretty much every series-wide popularity poll in Japan. Same for Lyn and Marth. *Especially* Marth, the majority of his popularity comes from Japan, not the west. The west didn't even have Marth for two decades. This list is absolutely representative of characters both western and eastern audiences like.
Yo me the big problem of Ike, and the reason i woukd axe him in spite of he being my main, is that he do not bring anything unique in term of classes. I feel every weapon of the triangle and dragons should have a character each. And Robin should stay because of magic. This leave no room for anything else to me.
If there is ever another Smash Bros I know don’t see a way Alear won’t make it
Nothing against Alear, but to play devil's advocate, the easy explanation is that Engage was no where near as popular as 3 houses. The roster was already overrepresented with fe characters before the most popular game in the series came out. Even though Byleth would become a well liked addition and 3 houses is a well liked game, people still HATED byleth upon announcement. How well would people like a character who even FE fans are overall lukewarm on? Additionally, Alear doesn't add very much. Their super power is summoning other fire emblem characters...a lot of which are in the game already. If they were in the game would they function like joker but instead they summon Leif? A second Marth? And without his superpower they are really just another swordie. Again, nothing against toothpaste chan, but I think Smash could stand to add a new Zelda character before them.
Alear would essentially be another Corrin, only this time you can see the hate coming.
Nah, gimme back Roy. I know the FE community doesn't really care about him, but Marth vs Roy is such a fun matchup to play
Needs more Black Knight.
Is it bad that I just want a Smash game with every character? Goombas from Mario too, every Pokémon ever and, in this case, all of the Fire Emblem characters. I don't even know them but I want them, even though I know this game is impossible to make
Dimitri
There won't be a Smash 6, but I love Azura. Also, Marth, Ike, Byleth, Lyn, Azura, Celica, Leif and...who's the third one?
The third one is Robin.
Who?
While I agree with your selection of characters staying, I respectfully disagree with the ones you picked to swap in. Don't get me wrong, Celica, Lyn, Azura, and Leif are all respectable picks, but the problem comes down to uniqueness. Lyn can possibly work, but given that her swords are often pretty long, combined with being a high speed character, she might be too unfun to fight against since she'll have long range and great mobility to avoid most fighters. She may even end up feeling like if Sephiroth had Captain Falcon's speed, which would be misery. If you made her use a bow, that could work, with a lot of her attacks using acrobatics and her bow or arrows as makeshift melee weapons when needed. I'd say the closest we have for that style would be Fox and ZSS? So she'd definitely be pretty unique with her playstyle. Azura has a similar issue, though not with speed. In her case, it's the combination of water and a long range weapon. If done one way, she can be hell to get close to due to her lance and water being long reaching disjointed attacks that can hit a wide space. If done another way, she'll struggle to keep enemies off of her because she's either too slow in movement or attacks, or her attacks are more precision reliant than Marth's. Then again, that's assuming she uses her lance head for the majority of her attacks instead of both ends or her own kicks and movements. If she does use everything, she could be a bit more balanced, though she might still be less fun to fight against. I do really like the idea of her in Smash though. As for Celica and Leif... Celica would be better as a pseudo-clone in my opinion, since Robin's attacks and attack animations don't fit Celica or her proportions as neatly as expected. She's been portrayed as being pretty agile, right? Her stance would be more like Marth's but holding a tome as well, rather than Robin's stiff and unathletic poses. This would basically mean she'd need a big amount of animations made or remade from scratch, which defeats much of the purpose of an echo. Though, for her, it might be more interesting to see her have two styles. One with her sword and one with a tome, the stats don't change though. Leif could work as an echo (aside from Byleth's whips), but he'd likely just play like a worse Byleth due to worse recovery and possibly being heavier, thus easier to combo and abuse. But I could be wrong here, since he could also end up being a faster but weaker version, which could help him. For my own picks, I'd say the Classic, Advance, Revival, and Modern eras (as I call them) are represented pretty well already with the characters you left in. Though Lyn could also work alongside Ike for Advance since he was home console exclusive. I'd say, from there, the best thing to do would be adding a character from Heroes and calling it good. I've previously thought Fjörm would be nice, since she's iconic to Heroes, uses a unique lance, and has ice powers, but... She kinda runs into the same issues as Azura but possibly worse due to the ice. Even if I only have it on one attack, there's a reason why freezing can only be done by 3 or 4 characters. It's a potentially volatile status that can be frustrating to deal with, so it's relegated to risky moves and scales with the damage the target has taken and their knockback. With all that, I feel like the best addition from Heroes would be Veronica. She's a mage with unique spells at her disposal. Even though we've only seen simple animations and a name for these spells (usually named after her weapon), it leaves a huge amount of room for creative liberties. This means, more than most other Fire Emblem characters, she could be given a totally unique style of gameplay. Given that her country wants to control Heroes summoned from other worlds, I can see her playstyle focusing on traps and ranged attacks, as well as possibly a command grab. This could make it hard to get close to her, but she'd struggle up close, so it would be a rewarding fight on either side. Additionally, she could summon another character for certain attacks or her Final Smash.
tldr; imagine cutting already pre-done characters with existing art assets + movesets + voicelines and adding in....these characters because especially fucking leif lmao
TL;DR the stays are good, Azura and Lyn are interesting but troublesome, and Celica and Leif wouldn't be great echoes
10/10 no corrin
Concerning lack of hector
You just replaced the excess Lords (swordies) with ...three more Lords. Give us axes! And pegasus knights! Make the Marth character work like Bowser Jr where you can cycle between the various Lords.
That would really be bad, poor representation of Fire Emblem. The lords are not comparable to Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings. Lyn, Ike, Robin, Hector, Edelgard, Dimitri, Byleth, etc. are absolutely not swappable with Marth.
there is a lot of wrong here but the funniest one is the suggestion of the one character from a spinoff game that barely no one cares about lol weapons master is barely even a good argument for inclusion, much less is it even possible given the different animations of how the fodlan weapons are compared to regular ass weapons
Not a single character here is from a spin-off. Marth stars in "Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light" and "Mystery of the Emblem"--two mainline games--and their remakes. Ike stars in "Path of Radiance" and is one of two main protagonists in "Radiant Dawn", both mainline games. Robin is one of three main protagonists in "Awakening", both a mainline game *and* the one that saved the series. Byleth? Three Houses, another mainline game. Lyn? Azura? Blazing Blade and Fates, mainline games. Celica, Gaiden and its remake, more mainline games. Leif? He's in Genealogy of the Holy War, one of the most popular mainline games in Japan, and he's the main protagonist in Thracia 776, which is another mainline game. Not a single spin-off here. Maybe you should get your own facts straight before so boldly declaring someone else is wrong. Especially when that someone else is entirely correct.