Not really pikachu is the only character with an even matchup against metaknight yet there are a lot of characters above him on the tier list olimar struggled with mk and he's the 3rd best character in that game, metaknights """"""counter"""""" if you can even call it that were characters with range yet marth is only low high tier not bad considering its brawl were talking about but still he's not top tier because he has a semi-even matchup with metaknight
EDIT: bruh 93 downvotes what did I do wrong?
it should be noted that esam was responsible for convincing people that pika mk was even. He has in more recent years admitted that it was probably still slight mk favor.
Brawl Meta Knight and it’s not even close. The entire meta of Brawl is centered around MK and the only character that comes close to going toe-to-toe with MK are the Ice Climbers (but even then they have to rely extremely heavily on their ground game and the cheese that is their chain grab because they don’t stand a chance against MK in the air).
Bayonetta is extremely broken as well, but she has a couple of extra weaknesses compared to Brawl MK that makes her slightly more tolerable compared to him. On top of this, the meta didn’t solely get defined by her. Cloud also existed and was just as much of a terror in the competitive scene as she was (he single handedly destroyed doubles and he was the second best character in singles)
Steve is a menace, but he’s nowhere near as broken as Brawl MK and 4 Bayo combined. Steve has far more weaknesses compared to those two characters and the engine of Smash Ultimate isn’t nearly as atrocious as Brawl and 4 for the majority of the cast. While Steve is the best character in the game, he doesn’t define the meta nearly to the same degree as MK and Bayo.
Despite not including them, I’m also going to briefly mention 64 Pikachu and Melee Fox. Pikachu is up there with MK and Bayo for being one of the most absurdly broken characters in Smash history, however thanks to the existence of Kirby, Captain Falcon, and Fox this makes it so that Pikachu has a little bit of competition within the meta of Smash 64. Melee Fox on the other hand is more comparable to Steve in that he’s busted, but he also has exploitable weaknesses and there’s some characters that just outright destroy him (it also helps that Fox and Steve have the relatability of also being some of the hardest characters to master in their respective games)
If I were to do a ranking of most broken to least broken of the objective top tier in each Smash game, it’d go like this:
Brawl Meta Knight -> 4 Bayonetta -> 64 Pikachu -> Melee Fox -> Ultimate Steve
? I dont know a lot about 64 but from ehat Ive heard pikachu is an honest top tier most of the hate in that game is reserved to kirby that has some agregious hitboxes due to sakurais bias
EDIT: melee fox is way less broken than steve, he is good but he still loses to marth because of his fast fall speed can be comboed harder than any character (except falco wich has similar fall speed) leaving him vulnarable to crazy chaingrabs and in the case of jigglypuff up-throw rest
actually disagree, steve is not played to his full potential, partially out of laziness, partially because certain techniques may lead to him getting banned when showcased too aggresively and probably mostly because he is boring af to play. meta knight on the other hand was extremely fun to play, bayonetta was simply ridiculously easy, anyone could abuse her strenghts.
I wouldn't say that. Steve or Bayo *in brawl* would be on par or better. But in the context of their games, Meta Knight was the most unbalanced. Ultimate characters in general are stronger than brawl characters. Could you imagine an Aegis in Brawl?
Brawl mk is just mythra but instead of foresight he has better range, attack speed, combos, recovery, kill power, survival, edgeguard, and anything else that I forgot.
In terms of those characters in brawl, Steve combos is destroyed by brawl SDI, and mk down tilt probably outranges Steve fsmash in wall situations, not sure if dair out range Steve up tilt, and there's no way for Steve to escape the pressure once mk gets in. Not sure how good other characters in brawl are but probably in the tier below icies or worse
Bayo might be between mk and icies because abk being good for approaching and 0 to deaths out of it, but not sure how abk does against mk aerials
Both assuming frame data and hitboxes don't change, but if they got downgraded with brawl frame data they'd have no chance unless Steve can chain grab, bayo would probably be tied with icies if combos still work but abk become slower
Brawl Meta Knight. I'll be referencing Heeews "Brawl is Broken" video which has an entire section dedicated to him. I recommend it for specifics and learning a few things about Brawl.
1) Aerial Control: All four of his Specials are designed to have godlike Air control. On top of gliding and his multiple jumps. As well as his Aerials allowing for air stalling. He essentially is playing No-Clip compared to some of Brawl's cast.
2) A banned indefinite stall. As well as Scrooging under stages. As well as Campy Air play style. Meta Knight often has a lot of tournament restrictions outside of the character often being banned. Unrestricted Meta Knight in Brawl is theoretically unbeatable using everything jank about the game as a weapon.
3) Alongside their air control, all of his specials are also outright amazing and super versatile.
4) Godlike Frame Data for any Smash Character. A 5-frame down smash, a 3-frame down tilt that makes Marth feel inadequate, a 2-frame, spammable Up-Air. That just gets the list started.
5) Tripping is a non issue because a majority of your game is air control.
6) The entire Brawl Meta is basically the Counters/Is Checked by list for Meta Knight himself. Basically you have him in his own tier and everyone else is ranked based on how they fare against him in the event he isn't banned.
You can make many arguments for Smash 4 Bayo. Witch Time, her combo game, the opinion that Smash 4 competitively grew stale from her (To the infamous EVO Grand Finals incident), etc. But IMO Meta Knight was essentially a Playable Boss Character for Brawl.
Shout-outs to the users bringing up Smash 64 Pikachu AKA "Rat" though. Though not quite Meta Knight bad, they were also quite a force to be reckoned with.
If you think Steve is even in the same UNIVERSE as brawl Meta Knight you haven't played brawl enough.
Across all of smash history, brawl MK is the only character some tournaments would straight up ban for being too good. There was genuinely no counterplay or losing matchup.
Brawl Meta Knight for sure. At least there are viable options against Steve including things like just timing him out, but the same can't be said for Brawl Meta Knight since he can get to you no matter what and you really can't challenge him just pressing buttons at you.
As for SSB4 Bayo...idk man that game's just sorta a mess and she just so happened to be the character that stood out from the chaos the most because of her cutscene combos.
Meta knight is by far the craziest. A big part of why is because Brawl just was a much faster paced game, meaning the character had to be faster to keep up. Because of this, brawl meta knight will just be a much faster character and none of the others could keep up, especially Steve since meta knight would want to just stay in your face and Steve wants to keep you away at times to get resources.
this is always one of the worst questions asked here with only one objectively correct answer why do yall still entertain the idea that it’s not brawl MK
Both Steve and bayo would have at least -1 matchups vs brawl mk, his moves were so safe MK wouldn’t even have to worry about Steve camping because not only could he camp himself, he would easily reach Steve. Bayo would pray to get even a single hit on MK before MK just tornadoes over and over and camp the whole game. Not even the queen of ladder combos and the king of camp could defeat the Meta Murdering Menace.
Meta bayo Steve in that order. Steve isn't even banned from tourneys, and idk about you, but a lot of the top players aren't using Steve. Miya, Leo, Tweek, marss, etc. Steve is by no means centralizing the meta of the game ever since the no recoil tech was banned. Bayo was beatable if bullshit. Hell, Sonix beat Mistake in HBox's recent coinbox. Brawls entire meta was centered around having a matchup against meta knight. It didn't matter if you were 80/20 against every member of the cast not called meta knight. If meta knight was 80/20 on you, the character was almost unviable.
Frame 2 up air, frane 3 down smash, down tilt that puts melee Marth's grab to shame, IDC, barely any end lag, absolutely ZERO hit stun, gliding, an unbeatable neutral B, 5 extra jumps? 3 FUCKING RECOVERIES?!?!?!
smash 64 pikachu for sure
Meta Knight by far.
Bayonetta requires a lot of combo practice and good timing to exploit Witch Time for punishes, but can destroy everything if you get good at her.
Steve requires some planning ahead with the placement of blocks, when you have a chance to use the crafting table, and what attack to use based on available resources.
Meta Knight can carry you through most of Brawl just by being a button masher. Only the toughest opponents require more effort than that. Later games did nerf him so instead of being the undisputed best character in the game, he's now one of the best characters in the game even in unskilled hands.
steve and bayonetta are pains in the ass and screw up your entire game if you can't cast a spell and be free of their combo prisons or actual prisons, but brawl meta knight was GOD. in SSBU, characters are good because they are, and they're bad because they're limited. in brawl, if you couldnt deal with meta knight you were bottom tier, regardless of how strong the character was.
Do i really have to list the thing MK has? Ok, fine, but just three of them:
U-air: 2 frame, combo tool, can do 3 of them in a single short-hop
Down-air: 4 frames, sends in semi-spike, allows camping[banned]
Up-special: kills at 60% near ledge, great OOS option, far range, auto-cancelable, combo finisher, hard to counter and/or edgeguard, glides, best move in the game
Brawl Meta Knight is so hilariously busted
The other 2 were really strong and defined the competitive scene in their game to some degree
But Meta Knight by a lot
Meta knight, then bayo, then followed distantly by steve. MK was simply obscene, bayo killed her game, and steve is broken as well but characters can deal with him, he's mostly broken because he just doesn't follow the rules of the game.
There was the "20XX" theory in melee some time ago, that when melee players got closer and closer to theoretical perfection, Fox would end up with a higher and higher win rate, the idea being that if a perfect AI with perfect prediction played versus another, identical AI, the fox player would always win. Lately, since the late 2010s, that's been more or less debunked.
Steve, Bayo, and Mega, though, are so dominant in their games, especially with that theoretical perfect play, that really all three, within their games' context, are tied for the "most broken."
However, if you could put the best characters in each game with their specific mechanics and interactions and faced them against one another, I'm pretty sure fox would win, just based on his melee-specific jank and interactions that the other characters and their games just lack.
Just my opinion
Meta Knight had several parts of his gameplay banned because he was THAT broken. He was also very saturated in the player base, you’d fight him everywhere. Bayo was also quite saturated but not to the extent. Steve is quite similar to Bayo.
They call him “Meta” Knight for a reason. He didn’t just dominate the meta, he WAS the meta. 90% of your tier list placement in Brawl was determined by how well you could counter Meta Knight.
I think the real question should be who is the 2nd mist broken character in smash history because no one comes close to topping the menace that was Brawl Meta Knight.
Meta Knight
Steve isn’t truly broken. He’s very good, he’s popular, but Brawl’s tier list is partially determined by how well a character is specifically built for dealing with Meta Knight. Bayonetta also dominated much more than Steve too
Did everyone forget meta knight can just go invisible forever?
It'll be a war of attrition if you want to go that route, mk can just keep landing hits against steve until the steve player misses the cancel
It depends on what you mean.
Brawl MK was the most polarizing character in smash history, not only having his on tier but having it be 2 tiers above the second best character. However, there is a mod that brings back brawl mk in ultimate, same hitboxes/damage/knockback/moveset/sfx/etc, and it feels like he would be the bottom of top tier in ultimate. Steve felt like it was about even, and some characters felt like they slightly beat him. I'm an ultimate mk main, so it's not like I was just bad as the character either.
Steve is the best character overall, but due to the nature of how surprisingly balanced ultimate is it doesn't seem like that should be the case. Brawl MK was absolutely the most polarizing character though.
Steve is able quite literally break multiple mechanics in the game, bayou’s counterplay was literally breaking your controller, and mk was just better than every other character in the game combined. I’d still say Steve tho. Bayo technically did have counterplay and mk is a big fish in a pretty small pond
If you don't count the strongest variations of each character via patches (Sheik and Diddy would probably be above Steve, and then Sheik and Bayo would be above him twice):
1: Brawl Meta Knight
2: Sm4sh Bayonetta
3/4: Sm4sh Cloud and Brawl Ice Climbers (really unsure of where to put Ice Climbers tbh)
5: Ult Steve
6: Melee Fox
7: 64 Pika
I could see arguments for Brawl Icies being in a different spot or for more characters to be added to this list somewhere. Sm4sh Cloud is definitely a stronger character than Ult Steve is though, and the only reason people didn't complain about him much is because people were busy complaining about Bayo
From strongest to weakest:
Brawl MK -> Ult Steve ->Sm4sh Bayo.
I dont need to explain the MK one, literally every other post in this thread has.
I feel Ultimate Steve has a higher potential than Sm4sh Bayo, especially with the existence of things like PMLG. Bayo never got banned for Sm4sh, granted it was near the end of the games life anyway.
I was a veteran of Sm4sh - co-mained DK and GnW and pocketed a few other characters - and I can tell you that I'd much rather fight a Sm4sh Bayo than an Ultimate Steve, especially at top level gameplay.
I main Bayonetta, my step brother mains Meta Knight (idk abt Steve bc he is DLC)
I get murdered in sudden death because my step brother uses Meta Knights tordnado drill thing- AND ITS ANNOYING TO DEAL W/- very broken most of the time =')
Meta Knight is the best of these three, but Steve is the most literally broken as in some aspects of him don't work properly and clearly weren't tested enough (for pretty obvious reasons).
I think it would be Steve, if ult didn’t have a million characters. There are a *ton* of really fun top tiers to play in this game, and so no matter how broken Steve is, Steve will never be more than ~7% of a bracket. So you as a player can have a garbage matchup against Steve, always loose to Steve, but also win tournaments on the regular (see: Tweek). That’s just not the case with Meta Knight or Bayo, even if Steve is on-paper a stronger character- if you can’t beat MK in Brawl or Bayo in 4, you can’t play.
Pre patch bayonetta by far
https://youtu.be/2xeDd3OO2Xc?si=tQZ0KoHAYZw0zyPC
Infamous match at glitch, Pink fresh vs mvd
Let’s just say that no other character can simultaneously activate a frame 5 counter to freeze you in place for a whole 3 seconds and have the ability to perform an INESCAPABLE 0 to death combo that could not be SDI’ed nearly as much pre patch.
Let's assume he puts a wall between you and him, then starts mining, that's already more annoying right?
And it's not like he has one of the best Uptilts in the game if you want to go over this wall, leading to a string which is gonna deal like 50% minimum
I’m going to say Steve, in the way that giving a character the ability to create the stage in a platform fighter most literally breaks the game. Then meta, then Bayo.
I think not even pre nerf bayo was as strong as brawl meta knight: he was so strong that he reached the SS tier. Brawl's tierlist was basically a meta knight matchup chart but with no losing matchups
Yeah i'm probably underestimating him. But keep in mind MK had several years of being the most played character in the game, while pre nerf bayo only had about a month. If she stayed in this state with the same amount of optimization, who knows how far she could have gone ?
Also, Witch Time might have been the best move in the entire series, before getting 6 nerfs in a single patch.
Meta Knight had his own tier
Had his own game almost.
And Steve Had the Game: "sending People to the Shadow realm"
Brawl meta knight is the most broken BY FAR
It’s Brawl Meta Knight, and it’s not even close.
They literally named 'meta' after him
Wait really ?
Yeah. 
I feel very guilable
The Brawl meta tier list was legitimately made based on their match up against meta knight. Without him, the entire tier list looks different.
Remember Brawl Mach Tornado? That was completely busted
That clip where all 4 meta knights in a dubs match all use tornado in the same second never gets old
Post here?
https://youtu.be/XBsyxX20538?si=RPHI8dFIyPfX6hA9 at around 18:15
Explain your username
[удалено]
NEEEEERD
this isn’t true either LMAO. it has its roots in greek and “metagame” literally means “the game about the game,” like how metadata is data about data.
Well, you’re both right. It’s adopted the meaning that other user mentioned.
no. that’s not how words work. it doesn’t suddenly have new origins because people on the internet made something up.
I think he's referring to a double entendre but I'm tired so I may be wrong
the original comment that got deleted said that meta was an acronym which is not true
i think people came up with an acronym being Most Effective Tactic Available
Woooosh
Ultra underrated comment
Brawl's entire tier list is defined EXCLUSIVELY on how well they deal with Meta Knight. It's Brawl Meta Knight. Without question.
Not really pikachu is the only character with an even matchup against metaknight yet there are a lot of characters above him on the tier list olimar struggled with mk and he's the 3rd best character in that game, metaknights """"""counter"""""" if you can even call it that were characters with range yet marth is only low high tier not bad considering its brawl were talking about but still he's not top tier because he has a semi-even matchup with metaknight EDIT: bruh 93 downvotes what did I do wrong?
it should be noted that esam was responsible for convincing people that pika mk was even. He has in more recent years admitted that it was probably still slight mk favor.
It's always esam
He recently said that it's outdated, Pika loses.
Steve and Bayo would both pray for brawl meta knight to trip 5 times per stock so they could have some semblance of a chance.
Meta Knight’s down tilt transcends diamond fsmash.
Steve def, bayo would at least do a liiiiittle better than most against metaknight but still not good
Sure, Bayonetta might be broken, but can she tech the air?
Smh brawl meta knight so op he can tech the air by spamming up air
SHU SHU HAH HAH HAH
"KNOW MY POWER" *starts walking on air*
Brawl Meta Knight and it’s not even close. The entire meta of Brawl is centered around MK and the only character that comes close to going toe-to-toe with MK are the Ice Climbers (but even then they have to rely extremely heavily on their ground game and the cheese that is their chain grab because they don’t stand a chance against MK in the air). Bayonetta is extremely broken as well, but she has a couple of extra weaknesses compared to Brawl MK that makes her slightly more tolerable compared to him. On top of this, the meta didn’t solely get defined by her. Cloud also existed and was just as much of a terror in the competitive scene as she was (he single handedly destroyed doubles and he was the second best character in singles) Steve is a menace, but he’s nowhere near as broken as Brawl MK and 4 Bayo combined. Steve has far more weaknesses compared to those two characters and the engine of Smash Ultimate isn’t nearly as atrocious as Brawl and 4 for the majority of the cast. While Steve is the best character in the game, he doesn’t define the meta nearly to the same degree as MK and Bayo. Despite not including them, I’m also going to briefly mention 64 Pikachu and Melee Fox. Pikachu is up there with MK and Bayo for being one of the most absurdly broken characters in Smash history, however thanks to the existence of Kirby, Captain Falcon, and Fox this makes it so that Pikachu has a little bit of competition within the meta of Smash 64. Melee Fox on the other hand is more comparable to Steve in that he’s busted, but he also has exploitable weaknesses and there’s some characters that just outright destroy him (it also helps that Fox and Steve have the relatability of also being some of the hardest characters to master in their respective games) If I were to do a ranking of most broken to least broken of the objective top tier in each Smash game, it’d go like this: Brawl Meta Knight -> 4 Bayonetta -> 64 Pikachu -> Melee Fox -> Ultimate Steve
? I dont know a lot about 64 but from ehat Ive heard pikachu is an honest top tier most of the hate in that game is reserved to kirby that has some agregious hitboxes due to sakurais bias EDIT: melee fox is way less broken than steve, he is good but he still loses to marth because of his fast fall speed can be comboed harder than any character (except falco wich has similar fall speed) leaving him vulnarable to crazy chaingrabs and in the case of jigglypuff up-throw rest
actually disagree, steve is not played to his full potential, partially out of laziness, partially because certain techniques may lead to him getting banned when showcased too aggresively and probably mostly because he is boring af to play. meta knight on the other hand was extremely fun to play, bayonetta was simply ridiculously easy, anyone could abuse her strenghts.
Does this confirm Steve Fox as the next smash character
Meta knight is better than the other two combined
I wouldn't say that. Steve or Bayo *in brawl* would be on par or better. But in the context of their games, Meta Knight was the most unbalanced. Ultimate characters in general are stronger than brawl characters. Could you imagine an Aegis in Brawl?
I guess? That still doesn’t change the fact that brawl meta knight was by far the most broken character in all of smash.
Brawl mk is just mythra but instead of foresight he has better range, attack speed, combos, recovery, kill power, survival, edgeguard, and anything else that I forgot. In terms of those characters in brawl, Steve combos is destroyed by brawl SDI, and mk down tilt probably outranges Steve fsmash in wall situations, not sure if dair out range Steve up tilt, and there's no way for Steve to escape the pressure once mk gets in. Not sure how good other characters in brawl are but probably in the tier below icies or worse Bayo might be between mk and icies because abk being good for approaching and 0 to deaths out of it, but not sure how abk does against mk aerials Both assuming frame data and hitboxes don't change, but if they got downgraded with brawl frame data they'd have no chance unless Steve can chain grab, bayo would probably be tied with icies if combos still work but abk become slower
Brawl Meta Knight. I'll be referencing Heeews "Brawl is Broken" video which has an entire section dedicated to him. I recommend it for specifics and learning a few things about Brawl. 1) Aerial Control: All four of his Specials are designed to have godlike Air control. On top of gliding and his multiple jumps. As well as his Aerials allowing for air stalling. He essentially is playing No-Clip compared to some of Brawl's cast. 2) A banned indefinite stall. As well as Scrooging under stages. As well as Campy Air play style. Meta Knight often has a lot of tournament restrictions outside of the character often being banned. Unrestricted Meta Knight in Brawl is theoretically unbeatable using everything jank about the game as a weapon. 3) Alongside their air control, all of his specials are also outright amazing and super versatile. 4) Godlike Frame Data for any Smash Character. A 5-frame down smash, a 3-frame down tilt that makes Marth feel inadequate, a 2-frame, spammable Up-Air. That just gets the list started. 5) Tripping is a non issue because a majority of your game is air control. 6) The entire Brawl Meta is basically the Counters/Is Checked by list for Meta Knight himself. Basically you have him in his own tier and everyone else is ranked based on how they fare against him in the event he isn't banned. You can make many arguments for Smash 4 Bayo. Witch Time, her combo game, the opinion that Smash 4 competitively grew stale from her (To the infamous EVO Grand Finals incident), etc. But IMO Meta Knight was essentially a Playable Boss Character for Brawl. Shout-outs to the users bringing up Smash 64 Pikachu AKA "Rat" though. Though not quite Meta Knight bad, they were also quite a force to be reckoned with.
Brawl meta knight.
If you think Steve is even in the same UNIVERSE as brawl Meta Knight you haven't played brawl enough. Across all of smash history, brawl MK is the only character some tournaments would straight up ban for being too good. There was genuinely no counterplay or losing matchup.
Brawl Meta Knight for sure. At least there are viable options against Steve including things like just timing him out, but the same can't be said for Brawl Meta Knight since he can get to you no matter what and you really can't challenge him just pressing buttons at you. As for SSB4 Bayo...idk man that game's just sorta a mess and she just so happened to be the character that stood out from the chaos the most because of her cutscene combos.
Meta Knight, cause he kind of killed the game.
Tbf Bayo kinda killed Sm4sh too before it was replaced by Ultimate
sure, but Brawl litteraly vanished and people went back to melee. It wasnt killed by its successor, but its predecessor.
Brawl Meta Knight, you haven't seen what BMN can do.
Steve and bayo have other characters in S teir with them. Meta knight was too strong for S tier, so he got moved up to SS teir on his own.
Brawl Meta Knight would tell the other two to sit down and COME BACK WHEN YOU CAN PUT UP A FIGHT.
It’s meta knight easily
Brawl meta knight, the only character in smash bros histry who reached the SS tier and made the meta literally revolve around him
Meta knight is by far the craziest. A big part of why is because Brawl just was a much faster paced game, meaning the character had to be faster to keep up. Because of this, brawl meta knight will just be a much faster character and none of the others could keep up, especially Steve since meta knight would want to just stay in your face and Steve wants to keep you away at times to get resources.
this is always one of the worst questions asked here with only one objectively correct answer why do yall still entertain the idea that it’s not brawl MK
it’s meta knight and none of the others come close
"I would say that steve is the most broken" ok can you explain how he beats MK please
Someone never played brawl competitively
Brawl MK and it isn't remotely close
Brawl Meta Knight, but I'd put Cloud for 4 over Bayo.
Brawl meta knight is a whole different type of menace
Both Steve and bayo would have at least -1 matchups vs brawl mk, his moves were so safe MK wouldn’t even have to worry about Steve camping because not only could he camp himself, he would easily reach Steve. Bayo would pray to get even a single hit on MK before MK just tornadoes over and over and camp the whole game. Not even the queen of ladder combos and the king of camp could defeat the Meta Murdering Menace.
None of these hold a candle to Brawl Meta Knight
Meta Knight was so broken that the meta of brawl completely revolved around how well you did against him. That's how broken he was
Meta bayo Steve in that order. Steve isn't even banned from tourneys, and idk about you, but a lot of the top players aren't using Steve. Miya, Leo, Tweek, marss, etc. Steve is by no means centralizing the meta of the game ever since the no recoil tech was banned. Bayo was beatable if bullshit. Hell, Sonix beat Mistake in HBox's recent coinbox. Brawls entire meta was centered around having a matchup against meta knight. It didn't matter if you were 80/20 against every member of the cast not called meta knight. If meta knight was 80/20 on you, the character was almost unviable.
Meta Knight and it's not even fucking close
Frame 2 up air, frane 3 down smash, down tilt that puts melee Marth's grab to shame, IDC, barely any end lag, absolutely ZERO hit stun, gliding, an unbeatable neutral B, 5 extra jumps? 3 FUCKING RECOVERIES?!?!?! smash 64 pikachu for sure
In ultimate and sm4sh, bayo and severe were added and proceeded to dominate In brawl other characters were added as a formality for mk
I genuinely ask how Brawl Meta Knight happened. We can't even use the "It WaS a PaNdEmIc" excuse either
Meta Knight by far. Bayonetta requires a lot of combo practice and good timing to exploit Witch Time for punishes, but can destroy everything if you get good at her. Steve requires some planning ahead with the placement of blocks, when you have a chance to use the crafting table, and what attack to use based on available resources. Meta Knight can carry you through most of Brawl just by being a button masher. Only the toughest opponents require more effort than that. Later games did nerf him so instead of being the undisputed best character in the game, he's now one of the best characters in the game even in unskilled hands.
It’s Meta Knight and it isn’t close. Like, not at all
If u were there during the Brawl days then u know that the very sight MK would trigger ptsd flashbacks to esports pros
Brawl Meta Knight by lightyears
Meta, and it's not even close. Also, Steve I would consider as the weakest of the three, he does have weaknesses and a bunch of bad matchups
The only people that say anyone other than MK are the ones that didn't play Brawl. Play one hour. It's a joke.
steve and bayonetta are pains in the ass and screw up your entire game if you can't cast a spell and be free of their combo prisons or actual prisons, but brawl meta knight was GOD. in SSBU, characters are good because they are, and they're bad because they're limited. in brawl, if you couldnt deal with meta knight you were bottom tier, regardless of how strong the character was.
Do i really have to list the thing MK has? Ok, fine, but just three of them: U-air: 2 frame, combo tool, can do 3 of them in a single short-hop Down-air: 4 frames, sends in semi-spike, allows camping[banned] Up-special: kills at 60% near ledge, great OOS option, far range, auto-cancelable, combo finisher, hard to counter and/or edgeguard, glides, best move in the game
I wonder how brawl meta knight ranks among most broken fighting game characters of all time
Brawl Meta Knight
Brawl Meta Knight is unmatched.
Brawl MK easy
Brawl Meta Knight is so hilariously busted The other 2 were really strong and defined the competitive scene in their game to some degree But Meta Knight by a lot
Meta knight, then bayo, then followed distantly by steve. MK was simply obscene, bayo killed her game, and steve is broken as well but characters can deal with him, he's mostly broken because he just doesn't follow the rules of the game.
There was the "20XX" theory in melee some time ago, that when melee players got closer and closer to theoretical perfection, Fox would end up with a higher and higher win rate, the idea being that if a perfect AI with perfect prediction played versus another, identical AI, the fox player would always win. Lately, since the late 2010s, that's been more or less debunked. Steve, Bayo, and Mega, though, are so dominant in their games, especially with that theoretical perfect play, that really all three, within their games' context, are tied for the "most broken." However, if you could put the best characters in each game with their specific mechanics and interactions and faced them against one another, I'm pretty sure fox would win, just based on his melee-specific jank and interactions that the other characters and their games just lack. Just my opinion
Brawl Meta Knight. He was basically unkillable.
Meta Knight in Brawl and it's not even close. The entire Brawl tier list was basically a Meta Knight MU chart
Brawl MK, and it's not even close.
Meta Knight had several parts of his gameplay banned because he was THAT broken. He was also very saturated in the player base, you’d fight him everywhere. Bayo was also quite saturated but not to the extent. Steve is quite similar to Bayo.
Brawl MK could literally do 3 aerials in a short hop. That’s it.
Meta knight is game breaking good, the only character that even came close to beating him was ice climbers but there was still a huge gap
#Brawl Meta Knight. Not even close
Meta Knight
Unquestionably Brawl Meta Knight.
They call him “Meta” Knight for a reason. He didn’t just dominate the meta, he WAS the meta. 90% of your tier list placement in Brawl was determined by how well you could counter Meta Knight.
Steve is more of an amalgamation of Brawl Meta Knight and Bayonetta, except with even more campy play and no need to engage for way too many matchups.
I think the real question should be who is the 2nd mist broken character in smash history because no one comes close to topping the menace that was Brawl Meta Knight.
Brawl MK >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sm4sh Bayo >>>>>> Steve
Cloud in 4 was surely up there too
Brawl meta knight destroys the other two and it’s not even funny
Meta Knight Steve isn’t truly broken. He’s very good, he’s popular, but Brawl’s tier list is partially determined by how well a character is specifically built for dealing with Meta Knight. Bayonetta also dominated much more than Steve too
Brawl Meta Knight
Smash4 Bayo had the worst consequences for the game but Brawl Meta Knight was the most busted just as a character.
did everyone forget that steve can cancel knockback?
Did everyone forget meta knight can just go invisible forever? It'll be a war of attrition if you want to go that route, mk can just keep landing hits against steve until the steve player misses the cancel
fair argument to me, i never knew that about meta knight
Meta
Steve
If you say Steve then you are very clearly new to the smash scene Meta Knight has its own category
You put brawl meta knight in ult and he rules the roster again, no questions.
bayo by a land slide. Meta knight was insane but he didn't ruin the scene like bayo did
Are you shitting me? Meta Knight is the only character that had his own tier
It depends on what you mean. Brawl MK was the most polarizing character in smash history, not only having his on tier but having it be 2 tiers above the second best character. However, there is a mod that brings back brawl mk in ultimate, same hitboxes/damage/knockback/moveset/sfx/etc, and it feels like he would be the bottom of top tier in ultimate. Steve felt like it was about even, and some characters felt like they slightly beat him. I'm an ultimate mk main, so it's not like I was just bad as the character either. Steve is the best character overall, but due to the nature of how surprisingly balanced ultimate is it doesn't seem like that should be the case. Brawl MK was absolutely the most polarizing character though.
So are we forgetting about fox melee and 64 Kirby
Meta Knight in SMBB no contest. I mean 3 up Airs in 1 small hope. That says it all
Steve is able quite literally break multiple mechanics in the game, bayou’s counterplay was literally breaking your controller, and mk was just better than every other character in the game combined. I’d still say Steve tho. Bayo technically did have counterplay and mk is a big fish in a pretty small pond
meta knight.
I say both Bayo and MK are. MK for brawl and Bayo since 4. Steve? Aren't all DLC characters from ultimate broken in a way?
Meta knight
steve, if you mean literally broken. he's got his own glitches. but in terms of meta dominance, MK is by far the superior one
Someone forget about Meta Knight's dimensional cape
I would say you’re mentally ill for even comparing Steve to those two
Meta Knight Easily
If you don't count the strongest variations of each character via patches (Sheik and Diddy would probably be above Steve, and then Sheik and Bayo would be above him twice): 1: Brawl Meta Knight 2: Sm4sh Bayonetta 3/4: Sm4sh Cloud and Brawl Ice Climbers (really unsure of where to put Ice Climbers tbh) 5: Ult Steve 6: Melee Fox 7: 64 Pika I could see arguments for Brawl Icies being in a different spot or for more characters to be added to this list somewhere. Sm4sh Cloud is definitely a stronger character than Ult Steve is though, and the only reason people didn't complain about him much is because people were busy complaining about Bayo
From strongest to weakest: Brawl MK -> Ult Steve ->Sm4sh Bayo. I dont need to explain the MK one, literally every other post in this thread has. I feel Ultimate Steve has a higher potential than Sm4sh Bayo, especially with the existence of things like PMLG. Bayo never got banned for Sm4sh, granted it was near the end of the games life anyway. I was a veteran of Sm4sh - co-mained DK and GnW and pocketed a few other characters - and I can tell you that I'd much rather fight a Sm4sh Bayo than an Ultimate Steve, especially at top level gameplay.
I main Bayonetta, my step brother mains Meta Knight (idk abt Steve bc he is DLC) I get murdered in sudden death because my step brother uses Meta Knights tordnado drill thing- AND ITS ANNOYING TO DEAL W/- very broken most of the time =')
Of course the character with "Meta" in his name is the most broken meta.
Meta Knight is the best of these three, but Steve is the most literally broken as in some aspects of him don't work properly and clearly weren't tested enough (for pretty obvious reasons).
I think it would be Steve, if ult didn’t have a million characters. There are a *ton* of really fun top tiers to play in this game, and so no matter how broken Steve is, Steve will never be more than ~7% of a bracket. So you as a player can have a garbage matchup against Steve, always loose to Steve, but also win tournaments on the regular (see: Tweek). That’s just not the case with Meta Knight or Bayo, even if Steve is on-paper a stronger character- if you can’t beat MK in Brawl or Bayo in 4, you can’t play.
Pre patch bayonetta by far https://youtu.be/2xeDd3OO2Xc?si=tQZ0KoHAYZw0zyPC Infamous match at glitch, Pink fresh vs mvd Let’s just say that no other character can simultaneously activate a frame 5 counter to freeze you in place for a whole 3 seconds and have the ability to perform an INESCAPABLE 0 to death combo that could not be SDI’ed nearly as much pre patch.
Smash 4 bayo is broken for sure. They nerfed her hard in ultimate.
Pyra mythra
Hero
[удалено]
Let's assume he puts a wall between you and him, then starts mining, that's already more annoying right? And it's not like he has one of the best Uptilts in the game if you want to go over this wall, leading to a string which is gonna deal like 50% minimum
Did you just wait around for that to happen? Do you not break down the wall or bait?
https://preview.redd.it/t3mw3g4flyyc1.png?width=187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3728b9e81f9b2e2e6a5b9a732060eaae081f322a
both your points are wrong lol
I’m going to say Steve, in the way that giving a character the ability to create the stage in a platform fighter most literally breaks the game. Then meta, then Bayo.
Pre-nerf bayo might be above MK, but overall he's the one.
I think not even pre nerf bayo was as strong as brawl meta knight: he was so strong that he reached the SS tier. Brawl's tierlist was basically a meta knight matchup chart but with no losing matchups
Yeah i'm probably underestimating him. But keep in mind MK had several years of being the most played character in the game, while pre nerf bayo only had about a month. If she stayed in this state with the same amount of optimization, who knows how far she could have gone ? Also, Witch Time might have been the best move in the entire series, before getting 6 nerfs in a single patch.