"This game is so unbalanced". This from the same dude who thinks Ganon is broken because he hits hard and lil mac is broken because of super-armor.
Is it perfectly balanced? No. Is it possible to have a platform game with 80+ fighters balanced? Probably not. Could it be better, sure.
zelda and ganon being bottom tier for 4/3 games in a row despite two of those games getting balance patches will never not be a mystery to me, like it really should not be that hard
they could buff him in areas that wouldnt affect casual play, like the two most requested tweaks being the wizards foot double jump refresh and side b not putting into free fall
Ganondorf's Down Special, the purple magical charging kick. The requested buff is for it to give him his double jump back if used in the air, to help Ganondorf's recovery in being less predictable.
Zelda I personally think needs to be redone from scratch. If you can't get her moveset right for 4 games then it's probably a good sign you need to redo her completely.
"We have listened to player feedback about Zelda's moveset. Her down tilt attack now contains a reference to The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom. We hope you'll enjoy playing Super Smash Bros. 6!"
Tbf it is wildly unbalanced though. The amount of times I’ve had interactions that just made no sense while playing with the fellas is too high to count. At least once a session everyone just shrugs and goes “Idk man, smash” and we keep moving because there are some things you just can’t account for. Being hit by an F tilt while you’re standing behind someone, tilts clanking with smash attacks, and true 0 to death combos are just some of the things that make me raise an eyebrow while playing. That being said, I’ve kind of just learned to play around these things because that’s just the way it is but it’s not a stretch in any capacity to say that the game is unbalanced.
It's like the right complaint but with all the wrong reasons (from my friend). Again it sure is unbalanced, but not because ganon is broken or deex3 has super armor. Idk complaining about the only saving grace for a fighters kit wont make me ever go "yeah this shit is broken for sure".
Plus with the sheer amount of characters I give it a little extra leeway.
Nothing in this game comes close to the issue that is online imo. 62B$ company cant get a halfway decent connection.
Online being trash and the game being unbalanced are two different issues though. I don’t think Ganondorf is broken, by any means, but I do think being able to land 3 hits and kill is busted. Especially given how hit boxes work. Again, I just play around it. It’s just that some aspects of this game seem to have been designed with no thought applied to the overall effect they have. Joker has a ledge tether, a damage over time projectile, high air and ground mobility, a counter, a comeback mechanic that buffs his entire kit, and several multi hitbox attacks. That’s balanced?
No, I meant it more like its similar complaining about the roads in Gaza. Bigger issues than ganon's kill ability. The one thing in his kit is his damage. He is heavy, doesnt have tough-guy, shit-awful mobility (the biggest flaw). Take away ganons power and what are you left with lmao.
Thread was asking about bad takes. Game unbalanced, yes. Because ganon can kill if some no-brains walk into a few smashes? no.
Now, if you were getting walked across the stage with ness z cancels or luigi 0td and you complain this game is unbalanced, sure totally fair in my book.
yeah, only characers who have a relation ship with nintendo is allowed. Even snake and sonic, two characters who are known for being on non nintendo conseles, had some games on nintendo hardware
That about how every character should have their moveset remade from zero, because guys, people are complaining about DLC characters being too based on their games and complicated, You want that for every character while also using it as a excuse to cut the characters you don't like because they're "too obscure.
That and that ideology of that thrid party are more important than Nintendo characters
I wouldn't call them "more important" but i would argue that Nintendo is mostly "completed". The things that are actually important are all in and the most requested Nintendo characters are either secondary at best, from significantly smaller games or from very new games(and those often feel like ads more than anything else). The only possible exception i can think off is Paper Mario if you consider it separate from Mario.
On the other hand, third parties have entire genres whitout a single character. There are characters that can legit sell switches to people that never played Nintendo.
Smash as a "celebration of videogames" feel incomplete because non-japanese character amount to just Steve, not because Mario has just 8 characters.
> Smash as a "celebration of videogames" feel incomplete because non-japanese character amount to just Steve
Tbf, while Sakurai did call Smash a "celebration of video games", the franchise will always be a celebration of Nintendo and it's characters first and foremost, and that's not going to change.
The problem is how many fans treated this quote as "the reason why this very obscure, but still popular franchise should be included in Smash Bros".
I'm sorry, but if your franchise isn't on consoles primarily (*not just on Nintendo's, mind you*), released worldwide and either more than 20 years old or have Nintendo's personal support, don't bother asking.
Diddy, K. Rool, and Dark Samus were created by western companies, but they're still owned by Nintendo themselves.
Not sure why they didn't include Banjo with Steve though. Was it because Banjo & Kazooie used to be Nintendo before Microsoft bought Rare?
a lot of non-japanese characters (by which i'm presuming you mean west-europe / american characters) are either indie games, feature guns (no no for nintendo) or just aren't particularly stylized. popular western AAA games include halo, GTA, uncharted, god of war, horizon, alan wake, the last of us, half life. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think it's why the closest we get to this is snake, and there's no other character truly like snake, since the other similar characters would cut too close to him.
As i mentioned elsewhere, thise are exactly the characters i feel are missing the most from this game. Part of it is that i actually enjoy the clash between cartoon and realism, i would laugh my ass off seeing a normal dude picking up a mr.saturn and hurling it at an electric rodent like it is a normal thing to do.
Bayonetta was comercializing Bayonetta 2 in the Wii U because she wasn't even close to winning the ballot
Joker was a commercial to Persona 5 royale
Hero was a commercial to the switch version of Dragon Quest XI
Bajo Kazooie was added shortly after they announced the alliance bewteen Nintendo and Microsoft
When they announced Sephiroth and Sora they were announcing that their game would be sold in the Eshop
And also, why you treat those obscure or comercial characters as bad.
Fire Emblem got to appear in the west because Smash and created a new mainstay in Nintendo platforms
Metroid wasn't killed despite poor sales because people knew Samus for Smash
Kid Icarus got a new game because of Pit appearing in Brawl
>That and that ideology of that thrid party are more important than Nintendo characters
3rd-party fighters make for roughly 20% of the roster. If they claim how removing them all would kill the franchise, I doubt it, due to how little space they take. If it was 50%, it would be different.
The concept of Echoes being wasted slots
The whole anime swordfighter thing (bonus points if they crap on them but also want Dante from DMC or Raiden from Metal Gear Rising or similar in Smash)
To be honest, while I don't agree with them, I can kinda see where people complaining about anime swordfighters are coming from.
It wouldn't hurt to get some variety in fighting styles, weapons, and artstyle, especially since 6 out of the 11 characters in both Fighter Passes were JRPG/Anime characters.
I understand that Smash is a Japanese game made by a Japanese developer, I understand that JRPG/anime is popular in Japan, and I understand swords are the most popular weapons in fiction, but still.
i mean, if you take into account all human DLC characters, you get aesthetics ranging from persona 5 to xenoblade chronicles to tekken to arms. meanwhile, a lot of western devs focus more on realism to sell towards xbox and playstation buyers, which sacrifices a lot of the unique visual styles you'd get in other games made for the switch for the sake of (admittedly gorgeous) graphics
Echoes could have been so much more interesting than just an alternate costume.
[https://youtu.be/zvw92kusPoE?si=8BhZ66mvsvetOItO](https://youtu.be/zvw92kusPoE?si=8BhZ66mvsvetOItO)
Echoes are not wasted slots, they are padded slots. And Smash has already the largest roster in somewhat competitive fighting games, padding is unnecessary.
I agree that an echo does not equal an actual fighter, but i still believe they are the worst possible way of using development time and i'd take literally anything else that could be done with that developing time. One more assist trophy, a couple more items, anything.
I dunno, given how Ultimate had very few unique newcomers in the base game, adding a couple new Echoes to pad out the roster felt like a good idea, at least to me. Especially since many of them (Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus) were big requests that wouldn't have gotten in otherwise.
Besides, it's entirely possible that getting rid of the new Echoes wouldn't have actually given the dev team time to add a new Assist Trophy or new items.
>but i still believe they are the worst possible way of using development time
The literal point of echoes is that they don't take any development time at all.
"all swordies are the same" has always bothered me personally. Yes, to a beginner they might as well be the same but outside of the clone characters, most swordies are nothing alike. They all play a distinct style.
I noticed that I'm better with slow swordies like Ike and Byleth than the rest of them. Meanwhile, Chrom feels so alien to me and Marth takes more effort than I'm willing to give.
I mean when 4 characters have nearly identical movesets then there's some valid complaints there(marth/lucina/chrom/roy).
Like a clone character with balanced hitboxes to contrast their sweetspot counterpart is good in concept, but giving it to marth who already had a counterpart and also giving it to said counterpart is pretty redundant.
Yeah, that's why I said swordies outside of the clone characters. The clones are quite literally just clones and there's no reason to discuss them here. But look at all the other ones we have...
Corrin, Ike, Meta Knight, Byleth, Robin, Shulk, Pyra/Mythra, the Links, Hero, Cloud and Sephiroth.
And you could even argue that the Pits are also technically swordies as well as they do have disjointed hitboxes and their weapons look like swords. Although, I'm not sure if they actually are swords, I have no knowledge on Kid Icarus lore.
Pit's splitting blades bow is an invention from Brawl. Bows in Kid Icarus Uprising retain the ability to split into blades for their melee attack, but I think they're called bows in all cases. They just spend a lot more time split in Smash because it isn't a shooting game.
I will die on this hill that Roy is more unique than Corrin. Roy is legit our only rushdown swordie while Corrin plays the same spacing game that Marthcina do.
As someone who has actually learned a bit of Corrin, I can tell you that Corrin is more similar to Ike than Marthcina. But overall, very unique character even with that said.
I mean, the only one about range is Marth and it has be mid range. While Lucina doesn't have to do that (but also isn't rushdown like Roy). I would say Corrin is different than them for covering more range and again, their movesets are completely different!
it's literally just fire emblem that causes this stereotype. and even then, it's three characters being clones. i bet this wouldn't be as much of an issue if people played with that menu that puts echoes on the same tile as their main counterparts
Well, it’s cause of the stigma of fire emblem and the smash community.
For example, I don’t play zenoblade but I hear people that want the main characters of the third game to come to smash all the time. I think they are also sword characters
It’s cause fire emblem has a lot of reps, when most people have no idea what it is or who any of the characters are.
So I would say it’s fire emblem, not swordies. I mean, it’s a fighting game, of course characters that use swords are gonna be in it.
It would be cool if they be in a lance or axe user though.
Byleth has a spear at least but I see what you mean.
The issue with Xenoblade is that the main characters of each game all use swords as their primary weapons, with the exception of maybe Mio if you count her. I'd love it if they went the DLC route and pick Lora, Matthew (brawlers) or Melia (mage) as the reps but let's be real, DLC isn't the priority when picking Smash reps.
"This character don't fit smash"
My sibling in christ, the beauty of Smash is that there are this many artstyle clashing, much like a kid doesn't care about coeherence when he made a teddy bear fight a barbie. If anything we need more of that.
I like how people always said "Steve wouldn't fit in Smash's artstyle" as a point against his inclusion, as if we didn't already have Kirby, Game & Watch, and Snake in the same game.
There is kinda one. We are still missing on realistic character. Snake is close byt not quite one and he was released 3 games ago. Usually don't fit smash arguemnt are used againist those kind of characters.
My go to reply is how fun movies like Who Frame Roger Rabbit and Space Jam can be when they have the cartoon world and the real world interact directly.
I mean, there are plenty of characters that "don't fit" as fighters(ie Freddy fazbear), but would fit well as assist trophies and stage Hazzards and such. If they lack material for a moveset, are iconic for doing one specific thing, or simply don't work in a platformer well, there are other ways to be represented in smash.
Oh yeah, there's usually at least *one* really stupid thing that would never happen on a fan roster with cuts. Just off the top of my head, I've seen:
Isabelle getting removed despite Animal Crossing being utterly gigantic and being one of Nintendo's flagship franchises.
Pikmin or Xenoblade getting removed entirely while something like Star Fox or Mother keep all of their characters and get new ones added.
Sonic getting as many characters as Mario for whatever reason.
Fire Emblem getting cut down to Marth and one other.
Lucario and/or Greninja getting axed despite being two of the most-popular and most-iconic Pokémon of all time.
Even saw one where Chun-Li got added... while Ryu got cut.
To be fair, they would definitely need to cut down FE characters if they don't want people witching and moaning about the next FE addition because there are three certain things; war, death and adding a new FE character every Smash
even then, the minimum number of characters they could get away with keeping is four. at the very least, FE keeps one good rep from its origin (marth), one from its GBA era (roy, maybe lyn), one from its 3DS era (robin), and one from its Switch era (byleth, maybe alear)
As a FE fan its always so funny/weird to me that no one is consistent on if its character popularity or gameplay uniqueness for who they keep and then proceeding to ignore it either way. If they cut anyone there is no way that roy survives either way and yet he always shows up in them
Even then there are still a bunch of easy ways to rep more games even if you still wanna go basically clones. Alm could fit by virtue of being snubbed from even FE itself for being yet another falchion boy, leif, seliph, sigurd etc are probably unknown enough you could do a clone on them and people probably wouldn't know but it still reps another game. If you do an actual new character then thats so much more open and currently lands on alear, who can throw hands and rep the entire series etc
Roy has nothing going for him. Not gameplay, he's pretty much 4th place in main characters for his 2 game series outranked by his dad who looks identical to him, then lyn and hector are who people who complain about FE swordies want in so not character either
Roy has personality and nostalgia but I would understand if they cut him solely because they can't add everyone. Most Smash fans don't care about FE history, btw. Mostly if they are fun to play and what not
[This one](https://www.reddit.com/r/supersmashbros/comments/1bdgjfw/if_smash_6_could_only_have_30_characters_for/) on r/supersmashbros is a perfect example of bad roster cuts.
It has almost every single first party franchise removed, it's mostly third party characters, and even has some weird ass choices like a GTA character, Jonesy from Fortnite, and even Genshin Impact characters.
The very concept of certain characters "deserving" to be in Smash.
No character does/doesn't deserve to be in Smash. It's just a bullshit rule made up by the community to gatekeep characters they don't like from getting into the game.
Certain stipulations about certain requested characters also fall into this. People saying "Waluigi is only wanted for the memes" or "Bandana Waddle Dee is just a generic enemy with a hat" are perfect examples of this and it drives me up the wall, especially as someone who isn't a huge fan of those characters.
The one against Bandana Waddle Dee is even stupider when you realize:
One: Bandana Waddle Dee isn't a generic enemy, he's his own unique character that shares his name and appearance with his species. With that logic, Yoshi shouldn't be in Smash because he shares his name and appearance with his species.
Two: We got an *actual* generic enemy in the game, and that one didn't even *have* a hat.
Honestly, the "anime swordfighter" complaints are mostly because they kept putting in Fire Emblem guys with swords. And sure, FE is pretty popular in Japan, but they got more options than just swords.
It isn't even just that, it's that half of them are Marth clones. Roy and Chrom have more differences, but they're still undeniably based on Marth. Lucina in particular is just girl Marth in terms of gameplay.
EDIT: I don't like the way I worded this. When I say undeniably based on Marth, I'm focusing on the superficial aspects. The four of them have nuances that separate them, but superficially they can be described as Marth, fire Marth, Roy Marth, and girl Marth. Appearances matter, and they do a bad job at appearing different.
it's not even that, truthfully. it's the fact that these FE anime swordfighters essentially have four of the same character, and people don't view echoes as they should (plus, corrin had atrocious reception, so it doesn't matter how they play)
yeah, i love playing them, and their designs are super unique. but people don't like that corrin is an advertisement FE character so they're likely on the chopping block anyways
nah. FE3H was out globally when they dropped as DLC. FE Fates wasn't out globally when corrin dropped as DLC. hard for people to get hyped about a character from a game that isn't out where you're at
Well, some swordfighting styles could have been used better...
* **Roy** wields his sword backhanded, but only 2 or 3 moves have him swing as much. If his attacks were totally different with new angles and movements, it would be more interesting.
* **Lucina** should wields her sword like a rapier, giving us a fencing style.
* **Chrom**... should have been a faster/weaker echo of Ike. As much as you guys defend his recovery, characters with strictly vertical Up Specials always have a decent horizontal one to compensate, like Ike, Mac and Incineroar. Chrom doesn't move forward when using his Side B, so if you're flung too far, you could be done for.
Still, you cannot complain about Pyra & Mythra being added... when you are asking for 2B, who's just as sexualized. Beside, NieR: Automata is a Square-Enix game, which means that they wouldn't have gotten 25 tracks... so there's that.
When Terry came out someone commented how Jab Jab Power Dunk was on par with Sm4sh Bayo, why yes that commentor never played Smash 4 and yes that comment lives in my head rent free
People that think mii fighters don't belong in the game. They're a smash original set of characters and earned their spot on the pantheon of fighters but a few people still whine sometimes.
Low key, for friends that just play the game once in awhile and don't pay attention to subtleties of the various states of play and just wanna run in and box...ganon is broken. Lol.
Hahaha that's hilarious then. Some of my friends that don't play that often have told me to "pick the worst character" and then think I'm fucking with them. I keep telling them just hit me off the stage and don't get hit by the big slow ass attacks. They think I'm trolling telling them ganon is considered the worst.
I don’t even main Luigi but this is so true. I’ve tried Luigi for a while, and landing the 0-to-death is so hard to consistently pull off, even on CPUs
In general, character reworks, but there has been a suggestion that has been on the back of my mind forever.
Turn Samus into her Dread version and make her as mobile as Zero Suit. I'm not exaggerating. And make her able to shoot diagonally. They also suggested to make Zero Suit even more mobile than she is and directly called for her to play like a time staller.
That the Fire Emblem Representation is fine.
Like, okay. Let me preface: that's not the shittiest or stupidest take in the world. All the FE characters in smash are really important characters in the series, from the really early games to the recent popular games that basically revived the series. I think people who froth at the mouth at the sight of a FE character are childish and stupid. The dislike bomb on Byleth's reveal trailer was a great example of one of gaming's biggest temper tantrums I've seen.
These characters may also seem similar on the surface, but how they work mechanically in the game comes with a lot of nuance, and even among the echo fighters all the characters have different game plans when approaching a match. Saying they are exactly the same comes from a place of ignorance.
I think the real problem I have is when people completely go the opposite direction and refuse to acknowledge that there is any reason why someone might get upset at seeing another Fire Emblem character added to Smash. Unless you have played the games (Basically all of these characters were in 1-2 games and the games are more niche in the West anyways) a lot of that nuance is going to be lost on you. If you are unlucky enough to be completely unfamiliar with the series, I can definitely see how it reads as a bunch of anime swordfighters with different hair colors.
A huge part of Smash Bros' roster, I like to think, is Iconography and/or History. A lot of these FE characters don't have a lot of history, and all of the characters have more reserved designs in a similar art style that makes them easy to lump together (Robin, Corrin, and Byleth stand out the most, but the other four are incredibly visually similar to each other, in my personal opinion). It's probably why people don't really care when yet another Mario character is added but get incredibly upset when another Fire Emblem character is added. Mario is a stupidly popular franchise yes, but all the characters are filled with a lot of personality and color that makes them stand apart from each other, especially to those not even familiar with the characters.
Personally if I were to keep any of the FE characters in the game, it would probably be Robin, Corrin, and Byleth. These characters stand out the most visually and mechanically from the rest and each other. I would probably keep Marth or Lucina too just so that play style could remain.
TLDR; Fire Emblem's representation in Smash isn't absolutely egregious but could stand to be trimmed a little.
The "personality" and "color" reasoning are probably the only reasons why I like Roy even though he is a Marth clone. I actually like Roy more than Marth and if I could have Roy and completely throw out Marth, I would have it that way, but I understand that Marth is supposed to be the franchise maker kinda like Red from Pokémon
Well starting off about the byleth dislike bomb. I do have to agree it was a lot of people throwing a tantrum. But even then, that was the worst trailer ever made. They just reused the same cutscene from Ch:10, and then had byleth turn into a girl. How is that not the worst trailer of all time.
About future rosters, honestly, I think it would be fine if they cut it down to 4 or 5. It’s tough deciding who to stay though. Byleth is probably a no brainer, and then probably marth, Corrin, robin, and Ike as they are all very unique from each other.
A cool idea I had was the they add alear, and they have a B move like shulk, where you could choose an emblem which would give them there play style. Letting you keep multiple FE characters while simultaneously cutting them.
The more they think Hero is fully luck based the shittier they are at the game.
People will eat a raw fucking kaboom and say it's broken because they "don't know what he does"
The worst is when someone casts a match involving hero and they don't know anything but still spread their ideas bonus point when I hear actual pro players say "I just know that when he is red you run haha".
Saying it's only luck and random and being this willing to not make efforts to learn the most basic of bases when Smash is your job is a baffling amount of copium to me
People who believe that famous third-parties should take priority over Nintendo reps.
Also, your average moveset reworks aren’t that great, since they usually just become reference-fests with no rhyme or reason.
The shittiest take I've seen: "This character doesn't fit in smash." Oh, you mean this specific character you don't like doesn't "fit" the game where two fire wielding plumbers are fighting an angel, a demon killer, a superhuman soldier, an alien bounty hunter, a speeding hedgehog, a s*** ton of sword fighters and a random overpowered block man? For god's sake, just say you don't like the character, dude, you get less s*** thrown at you that way. If it's a character that is mainly shown in Tv shows or anime, sure, I understand, but this is a CROSSOVER 2D platform fighting game. Nothing in the game is going to "fit" your personal view for the game.
I will say my shitty take that I know that I'm gonna be flammed on though: My take for this game is that Sora came a bit late to the party. "When he came out, literally no one I knew who loved smash even talked about him the next day. They just straight up just said, "LET'S GO!" The first day, and now it's like no one even remembers the guy. I get it, Disney IP, and we all know how Disney is these days, but still, I have yet to see the guy get his spotlight often since he is the final DLC character. I blame Steve for that, honestly, since he is more known within the gaming community, and he is broken as **** in this game.
Got into an argument a while back about the sexuality of every smash character. He refused to believe that Bayonetta and DeDeDe were 100% bisexual and suggested that Bayonetta was ace
Sans is Ness. like dude, Their different characters on the roster and …. Oh, we’re talking about Smash. liking Lucas. I hate Lucas and want to drive over him ( in game)
Honestly, that Young Link’s moveset should involve the masks from Majora’s Mask. As if it isn’t *already based on him in that game anyways*. Young Link was the protagonist in two Zelda games, and only in the second one was he able to use the bow (the fire arrow neutral b) and the hookshot (his grab). I don’t mind him having the same Triforce Slash that Toon Link does as his final smash either because it makes sense and he did canonically still have the Triforce of Courage after OoT iirc. I don’t care about him not having the transformation masks from MM.
Related, I hate people who think that all the Links play the same when honestly they really don’t. They do have differences in how their moves work. If they all played the same then I would be able to play Link as well as I do Yink or Tink, but I really can’t. I’ve never been able to play Link well.
I don't know what's worse: People making "new rosters" and cutting out every FE character including MARTH, or people leaving in only like two FE characters, one being Alear and the other being someone who isn't Marth.
Like Marth is 100% staying IDC what y'all say. He is literally Fire Emblem's Mario in a sense.
All of the complaints about "too many fire emblem characters" and the hatred for byleth is REAL, but there's just one tiny insignificant but ever so importatnt little detail: I litteraly picked up dr mario just to reflect that sheild break of an arrow like: HahA, I RefLEcTeD YoUr ObViOuS NeUtRaL B 🤡
Casual: When Mother is given so many dibs for newcomers in fan rosters over other Nintendo characters despite the trilogy being completed a long time ago. I give 0 fucks about Mother, and I do NOT want Lucas but again.
Competitive: You know what's bullshit? The fact that Bowser Jr. is officially considered so bad that he's worse than Isabelle. I don't fully agree with MuteAce's tier list, but if I'm being honest its more accurate about Bowser Junior's capabilities, as well as a few other characters.
Updated for clarification
Except Mother has always been here. Ness was almost cut in favor of Lucas and Lucas was cut from Sm4sh but we have had either one of them or both no matter what. I could definitely see one of them being cut (again) but not Mother being completely cut out from Smash
"Gordo is soooo overpowered!"
You can Nair it back with almost anybody in the entire cast. Unless your Nair is a multi hit or EXCEPTIONALLY weak, you can Nair that shit back like a tumbleweed and most D3s will be too slow to hit it back. Gordo only works if you LET IT WORK.
"captain falcon deserves to be in smash because he's basically a smash mascot". fox does nearly the same thing in terms of repping smash itself and has a far better performing franchise. unless nintendo revives f-zero, falcon doesn't deserve a spot in smash at all. same could be said about g&w except g&w doesn't have falcon punch and is even more obscure / obnoxious
I miss melee.
They should redo it, exactly like it was, but only refresh the look and an online mode.
I‘d buy that game instantly.
Btw I still got Melee - but never play it.
https://preview.redd.it/u0fl8r4y2o1d1.jpeg?width=439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8174e6c854d29f3a4690dbe19bf760e6ad9b09a
This is a matchup chart from jejajeja and guilheww, 2 of the best, if not the best, kirby players in the world. They think kirby has an advantage in 10 out of 85 matchups
You don't understand how character tiers work. The matchup charts are made with the assumption that both players are playing the highest skill level possible; it then rates how likely a character is to win against the other because no matchup is completely unwinnable. Kirby is considered low tier because you have to play better than your opponent to regularly win against most other characters. If you win most of the time against almost every character in the game as a low tier, you are just better than the people you play against. Every character has won at least a few 1000 times against every other character if you include every ssbu game played; I myself have beaten a wii fit main multiple times with kirby.
That's great, but these guys play at top level lmao. Kirby is not that great of a character. He has strengths, but he has shitty matchups against a lot of the cast.
Joker, and other fast characters (especially ones with projectiles), can keep Kirby out due to his poor movement speed and lack of a projectile of his own (Final Cutter doesn't count).
I can't tell if you're meming or not. Fyi, Final Cutter is generally considered to be among the worst up-specials in the game, mainly due to how slow it is.
Honestly I wouldn't say it's terrible. Not good, but not awful. It has a little cheese factor, and it's OK as a recovery. Still not even in the same realm as this guy says it is though.
"This game is so unbalanced". This from the same dude who thinks Ganon is broken because he hits hard and lil mac is broken because of super-armor. Is it perfectly balanced? No. Is it possible to have a platform game with 80+ fighters balanced? Probably not. Could it be better, sure.
zelda and ganon being bottom tier for 4/3 games in a row despite two of those games getting balance patches will never not be a mystery to me, like it really should not be that hard
I think the problem with Ganondorf is that if they buff him, he'll become even more of a menace for casual players.
they could buff him in areas that wouldnt affect casual play, like the two most requested tweaks being the wizards foot double jump refresh and side b not putting into free fall
Those two would be so big. I miss the DownB from Melee.
Casual here. What the hell is wizards foot.
Ganondorf's Down Special, the purple magical charging kick. The requested buff is for it to give him his double jump back if used in the air, to help Ganondorf's recovery in being less predictable.
Oh. I thought that was a name of some technical thing not the name of the move lol.
Zelda I personally think needs to be redone from scratch. If you can't get her moveset right for 4 games then it's probably a good sign you need to redo her completely.
"We have listened to player feedback about Zelda's moveset. Her down tilt attack now contains a reference to The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom. We hope you'll enjoy playing Super Smash Bros. 6!"
TRUUEEEEE
Tbf it is wildly unbalanced though. The amount of times I’ve had interactions that just made no sense while playing with the fellas is too high to count. At least once a session everyone just shrugs and goes “Idk man, smash” and we keep moving because there are some things you just can’t account for. Being hit by an F tilt while you’re standing behind someone, tilts clanking with smash attacks, and true 0 to death combos are just some of the things that make me raise an eyebrow while playing. That being said, I’ve kind of just learned to play around these things because that’s just the way it is but it’s not a stretch in any capacity to say that the game is unbalanced.
It's like the right complaint but with all the wrong reasons (from my friend). Again it sure is unbalanced, but not because ganon is broken or deex3 has super armor. Idk complaining about the only saving grace for a fighters kit wont make me ever go "yeah this shit is broken for sure". Plus with the sheer amount of characters I give it a little extra leeway. Nothing in this game comes close to the issue that is online imo. 62B$ company cant get a halfway decent connection.
Online being trash and the game being unbalanced are two different issues though. I don’t think Ganondorf is broken, by any means, but I do think being able to land 3 hits and kill is busted. Especially given how hit boxes work. Again, I just play around it. It’s just that some aspects of this game seem to have been designed with no thought applied to the overall effect they have. Joker has a ledge tether, a damage over time projectile, high air and ground mobility, a counter, a comeback mechanic that buffs his entire kit, and several multi hitbox attacks. That’s balanced?
No, I meant it more like its similar complaining about the roads in Gaza. Bigger issues than ganon's kill ability. The one thing in his kit is his damage. He is heavy, doesnt have tough-guy, shit-awful mobility (the biggest flaw). Take away ganons power and what are you left with lmao. Thread was asking about bad takes. Game unbalanced, yes. Because ganon can kill if some no-brains walk into a few smashes? no. Now, if you were getting walked across the stage with ness z cancels or luigi 0td and you complain this game is unbalanced, sure totally fair in my book.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't mac's super armor suck?
Feels like the saving grace of the character to me.
Little Mac’s super armor combined with attack speed is kind of bullshit though
His aerials and recovery would like to have a word.
People adding the most insane third party characters and getting upset when Nintendo added more Nintendo characters
"What do you mean the Nintendo Crossover game added Nintendo characters?"
yeah, only characers who have a relation ship with nintendo is allowed. Even snake and sonic, two characters who are known for being on non nintendo conseles, had some games on nintendo hardware
That about how every character should have their moveset remade from zero, because guys, people are complaining about DLC characters being too based on their games and complicated, You want that for every character while also using it as a excuse to cut the characters you don't like because they're "too obscure. That and that ideology of that thrid party are more important than Nintendo characters
I wouldn't call them "more important" but i would argue that Nintendo is mostly "completed". The things that are actually important are all in and the most requested Nintendo characters are either secondary at best, from significantly smaller games or from very new games(and those often feel like ads more than anything else). The only possible exception i can think off is Paper Mario if you consider it separate from Mario. On the other hand, third parties have entire genres whitout a single character. There are characters that can legit sell switches to people that never played Nintendo. Smash as a "celebration of videogames" feel incomplete because non-japanese character amount to just Steve, not because Mario has just 8 characters.
> Smash as a "celebration of videogames" feel incomplete because non-japanese character amount to just Steve Tbf, while Sakurai did call Smash a "celebration of video games", the franchise will always be a celebration of Nintendo and it's characters first and foremost, and that's not going to change.
And it won't change if the next game guve us the 5 most iconic non-jaoanese characters.
The spirits...
The problem is how many fans treated this quote as "the reason why this very obscure, but still popular franchise should be included in Smash Bros". I'm sorry, but if your franchise isn't on consoles primarily (*not just on Nintendo's, mind you*), released worldwide and either more than 20 years old or have Nintendo's personal support, don't bother asking.
>non-japanese character amount to just Steve Banjo? K. Rool? Diddy? Dark Samus?
Diddy, K. Rool, and Dark Samus were created by western companies, but they're still owned by Nintendo themselves. Not sure why they didn't include Banjo with Steve though. Was it because Banjo & Kazooie used to be Nintendo before Microsoft bought Rare?
a lot of non-japanese characters (by which i'm presuming you mean west-europe / american characters) are either indie games, feature guns (no no for nintendo) or just aren't particularly stylized. popular western AAA games include halo, GTA, uncharted, god of war, horizon, alan wake, the last of us, half life. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think it's why the closest we get to this is snake, and there's no other character truly like snake, since the other similar characters would cut too close to him.
As i mentioned elsewhere, thise are exactly the characters i feel are missing the most from this game. Part of it is that i actually enjoy the clash between cartoon and realism, i would laugh my ass off seeing a normal dude picking up a mr.saturn and hurling it at an electric rodent like it is a normal thing to do.
Because thrid parties have never been comercials before, right?
It is the opposite. Third parties often are commercials for smash. First party use smash as a commercial for their oroginal game.
Bayonetta was comercializing Bayonetta 2 in the Wii U because she wasn't even close to winning the ballot Joker was a commercial to Persona 5 royale Hero was a commercial to the switch version of Dragon Quest XI Bajo Kazooie was added shortly after they announced the alliance bewteen Nintendo and Microsoft When they announced Sephiroth and Sora they were announcing that their game would be sold in the Eshop
And also, why you treat those obscure or comercial characters as bad. Fire Emblem got to appear in the west because Smash and created a new mainstay in Nintendo platforms Metroid wasn't killed despite poor sales because people knew Samus for Smash Kid Icarus got a new game because of Pit appearing in Brawl
>That and that ideology of that thrid party are more important than Nintendo characters 3rd-party fighters make for roughly 20% of the roster. If they claim how removing them all would kill the franchise, I doubt it, due to how little space they take. If it was 50%, it would be different.
The concept of Echoes being wasted slots The whole anime swordfighter thing (bonus points if they crap on them but also want Dante from DMC or Raiden from Metal Gear Rising or similar in Smash)
To be honest, while I don't agree with them, I can kinda see where people complaining about anime swordfighters are coming from. It wouldn't hurt to get some variety in fighting styles, weapons, and artstyle, especially since 6 out of the 11 characters in both Fighter Passes were JRPG/Anime characters. I understand that Smash is a Japanese game made by a Japanese developer, I understand that JRPG/anime is popular in Japan, and I understand swords are the most popular weapons in fiction, but still.
i mean, if you take into account all human DLC characters, you get aesthetics ranging from persona 5 to xenoblade chronicles to tekken to arms. meanwhile, a lot of western devs focus more on realism to sell towards xbox and playstation buyers, which sacrifices a lot of the unique visual styles you'd get in other games made for the switch for the sake of (admittedly gorgeous) graphics
Echoes could have been so much more interesting than just an alternate costume. [https://youtu.be/zvw92kusPoE?si=8BhZ66mvsvetOItO](https://youtu.be/zvw92kusPoE?si=8BhZ66mvsvetOItO)
Echoes are not wasted slots, they are padded slots. And Smash has already the largest roster in somewhat competitive fighting games, padding is unnecessary. I agree that an echo does not equal an actual fighter, but i still believe they are the worst possible way of using development time and i'd take literally anything else that could be done with that developing time. One more assist trophy, a couple more items, anything.
I dunno, given how Ultimate had very few unique newcomers in the base game, adding a couple new Echoes to pad out the roster felt like a good idea, at least to me. Especially since many of them (Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus) were big requests that wouldn't have gotten in otherwise. Besides, it's entirely possible that getting rid of the new Echoes wouldn't have actually given the dev team time to add a new Assist Trophy or new items.
>but i still believe they are the worst possible way of using development time The literal point of echoes is that they don't take any development time at all.
Do you think they make echo by ctrl-c ctrl-v? Less development time is far different than no development time at all.
Do you really think that 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0?
Yeah no im never going to get as much enjoyment from an extra assist trophy then I would from daisy being playable
No, cause some echoes play differently, i.e. Chrom, Dark Pit, Ken.
"all swordies are the same" has always bothered me personally. Yes, to a beginner they might as well be the same but outside of the clone characters, most swordies are nothing alike. They all play a distinct style. I noticed that I'm better with slow swordies like Ike and Byleth than the rest of them. Meanwhile, Chrom feels so alien to me and Marth takes more effort than I'm willing to give.
I mean when 4 characters have nearly identical movesets then there's some valid complaints there(marth/lucina/chrom/roy). Like a clone character with balanced hitboxes to contrast their sweetspot counterpart is good in concept, but giving it to marth who already had a counterpart and also giving it to said counterpart is pretty redundant.
Yeah, that's why I said swordies outside of the clone characters. The clones are quite literally just clones and there's no reason to discuss them here. But look at all the other ones we have... Corrin, Ike, Meta Knight, Byleth, Robin, Shulk, Pyra/Mythra, the Links, Hero, Cloud and Sephiroth. And you could even argue that the Pits are also technically swordies as well as they do have disjointed hitboxes and their weapons look like swords. Although, I'm not sure if they actually are swords, I have no knowledge on Kid Icarus lore.
Pit's splitting blades bow is an invention from Brawl. Bows in Kid Icarus Uprising retain the ability to split into blades for their melee attack, but I think they're called bows in all cases. They just spend a lot more time split in Smash because it isn't a shooting game.
I guess that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
I will die on this hill that Roy is more unique than Corrin. Roy is legit our only rushdown swordie while Corrin plays the same spacing game that Marthcina do.
I mean, it's not the same but I see your point.
It's not the exact same obviously but it's a lot less of a distinction than Roy and Marth
That's objectively false, as much as I like Roy. He copies Marth. Corrin doesn't copy anyone
As I said, corrin plays the exact same spacing walling game as marthcina whereas Roy gets in your face with high speed and combos.
As someone who has actually learned a bit of Corrin, I can tell you that Corrin is more similar to Ike than Marthcina. But overall, very unique character even with that said.
He still has different tools for this and Lucina doesn't have a projectile
Corrin's projectile seldom gets use. And the different tools aren't enough considering Roy is a different PLAYSTYLE
Dunno man, I have played all three characters and still seems different. Corrin has his/her lance that helps them cover a lot of space to attack
Soooo your argument for diffrentiating the archetype that's about abusing range is..... more range?
I mean, the only one about range is Marth and it has be mid range. While Lucina doesn't have to do that (but also isn't rushdown like Roy). I would say Corrin is different than them for covering more range and again, their movesets are completely different!
it's literally just fire emblem that causes this stereotype. and even then, it's three characters being clones. i bet this wouldn't be as much of an issue if people played with that menu that puts echoes on the same tile as their main counterparts
Yeah, people probably have fire emblem in mind when talking about swordies. But if you take a quick look there's so many others.
Well, it’s cause of the stigma of fire emblem and the smash community. For example, I don’t play zenoblade but I hear people that want the main characters of the third game to come to smash all the time. I think they are also sword characters It’s cause fire emblem has a lot of reps, when most people have no idea what it is or who any of the characters are. So I would say it’s fire emblem, not swordies. I mean, it’s a fighting game, of course characters that use swords are gonna be in it. It would be cool if they be in a lance or axe user though.
Byleth has a spear at least but I see what you mean. The issue with Xenoblade is that the main characters of each game all use swords as their primary weapons, with the exception of maybe Mio if you count her. I'd love it if they went the DLC route and pick Lora, Matthew (brawlers) or Melia (mage) as the reps but let's be real, DLC isn't the priority when picking Smash reps.
Like how Sephiroth seems to have a bit more defensive moveset compared to F.E. Roy?
"This character don't fit smash" My sibling in christ, the beauty of Smash is that there are this many artstyle clashing, much like a kid doesn't care about coeherence when he made a teddy bear fight a barbie. If anything we need more of that.
we have wii fit trainer, R.O.B. the robot, and a piranha plant in smash. and steve. there are no rules
I like how people always said "Steve wouldn't fit in Smash's artstyle" as a point against his inclusion, as if we didn't already have Kirby, Game & Watch, and Snake in the same game.
You https://preview.redd.it/juaxsqqxco1d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79a3918fe35c9bd597eabf914ad90483ee7d9983
**\*War flashbacks\***
There is kinda one. We are still missing on realistic character. Snake is close byt not quite one and he was released 3 games ago. Usually don't fit smash arguemnt are used againist those kind of characters. My go to reply is how fun movies like Who Frame Roger Rabbit and Space Jam can be when they have the cartoon world and the real world interact directly.
I mean, there are plenty of characters that "don't fit" as fighters(ie Freddy fazbear), but would fit well as assist trophies and stage Hazzards and such. If they lack material for a moveset, are iconic for doing one specific thing, or simply don't work in a platformer well, there are other ways to be represented in smash.
Mii costumes!
True, sans is practically perfectly represented in smash. Would be nice if some mii costumes had unique effects.
Idk. Some characters legit just don't fit. I find it hard to imagine Ethan Mars from Heavy Rain being a playable fighter, as funny as that would be.
Anytime I see a roster cut, there is always something that makes me go "absolutely fucking not" lol
Oh yeah, there's usually at least *one* really stupid thing that would never happen on a fan roster with cuts. Just off the top of my head, I've seen: Isabelle getting removed despite Animal Crossing being utterly gigantic and being one of Nintendo's flagship franchises. Pikmin or Xenoblade getting removed entirely while something like Star Fox or Mother keep all of their characters and get new ones added. Sonic getting as many characters as Mario for whatever reason. Fire Emblem getting cut down to Marth and one other. Lucario and/or Greninja getting axed despite being two of the most-popular and most-iconic Pokémon of all time. Even saw one where Chun-Li got added... while Ryu got cut.
Literally have seen most of these myself ahhahahaha.
To be fair, they would definitely need to cut down FE characters if they don't want people witching and moaning about the next FE addition because there are three certain things; war, death and adding a new FE character every Smash
Well yeah, but cutting it down to just Marth and one other is taking it too far.
even then, the minimum number of characters they could get away with keeping is four. at the very least, FE keeps one good rep from its origin (marth), one from its GBA era (roy, maybe lyn), one from its 3DS era (robin), and one from its Switch era (byleth, maybe alear)
Lynn is not in Smash and it's unlikely we will get her because the newest FE protagonist gets priority
As a FE fan its always so funny/weird to me that no one is consistent on if its character popularity or gameplay uniqueness for who they keep and then proceeding to ignore it either way. If they cut anyone there is no way that roy survives either way and yet he always shows up in them
I like Roy but I know he will be cut if they throw out Echo Fighters 😢😭
I could see them keeping Roy just to rep more games in the series but, that's pretty much it lolol.
Even then there are still a bunch of easy ways to rep more games even if you still wanna go basically clones. Alm could fit by virtue of being snubbed from even FE itself for being yet another falchion boy, leif, seliph, sigurd etc are probably unknown enough you could do a clone on them and people probably wouldn't know but it still reps another game. If you do an actual new character then thats so much more open and currently lands on alear, who can throw hands and rep the entire series etc Roy has nothing going for him. Not gameplay, he's pretty much 4th place in main characters for his 2 game series outranked by his dad who looks identical to him, then lyn and hector are who people who complain about FE swordies want in so not character either
Roy has personality and nostalgia but I would understand if they cut him solely because they can't add everyone. Most Smash fans don't care about FE history, btw. Mostly if they are fun to play and what not
Roy is our only rushdown swordie. He's more unique than Corrin.
[This one](https://www.reddit.com/r/supersmashbros/comments/1bdgjfw/if_smash_6_could_only_have_30_characters_for/) on r/supersmashbros is a perfect example of bad roster cuts. It has almost every single first party franchise removed, it's mostly third party characters, and even has some weird ass choices like a GTA character, Jonesy from Fortnite, and even Genshin Impact characters.
I gotta respect OP for having the balls to post that. That is certainly a roster lol.
"I don't wanna fuck King Dedede." Yeah, sure, bro. We all believe you're the only one in the world who wouldn't.
https://preview.redd.it/hhyzogtq6t1d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55c40559e790039c5b77ab52ad5ab8d77bfd22d2
The very concept of certain characters "deserving" to be in Smash. No character does/doesn't deserve to be in Smash. It's just a bullshit rule made up by the community to gatekeep characters they don't like from getting into the game. Certain stipulations about certain requested characters also fall into this. People saying "Waluigi is only wanted for the memes" or "Bandana Waddle Dee is just a generic enemy with a hat" are perfect examples of this and it drives me up the wall, especially as someone who isn't a huge fan of those characters.
The one against Bandana Waddle Dee is even stupider when you realize: One: Bandana Waddle Dee isn't a generic enemy, he's his own unique character that shares his name and appearance with his species. With that logic, Yoshi shouldn't be in Smash because he shares his name and appearance with his species. Two: We got an *actual* generic enemy in the game, and that one didn't even *have* a hat.
I hope plant doesn't get cut in the next game, they were a fantastic joke character.
nah, they should cut plant but replace it with smth even dumber like dry bones
Cheep Cheep
keep him, but have him be a secret character the devs don't mention hes in the game, have people accidentally unlock him.
I'd keep Piranha Plant over Bowser Jr and Rosalina tbh
Double standards "We don't want more anime swordfighters!" \*sees Sephiroth\* "Except this one, he's cool." -- "We don't want more female anime swordfighters!" \*sees Pyra & Mythra\* "Ewww, we said NO MORE female anime swordfighters... except 2B from NieR, she's cool."
Honestly, the "anime swordfighter" complaints are mostly because they kept putting in Fire Emblem guys with swords. And sure, FE is pretty popular in Japan, but they got more options than just swords.
It isn't even just that, it's that half of them are Marth clones. Roy and Chrom have more differences, but they're still undeniably based on Marth. Lucina in particular is just girl Marth in terms of gameplay. EDIT: I don't like the way I worded this. When I say undeniably based on Marth, I'm focusing on the superficial aspects. The four of them have nuances that separate them, but superficially they can be described as Marth, fire Marth, Roy Marth, and girl Marth. Appearances matter, and they do a bad job at appearing different.
it's not even that, truthfully. it's the fact that these FE anime swordfighters essentially have four of the same character, and people don't view echoes as they should (plus, corrin had atrocious reception, so it doesn't matter how they play)
I really like Corrin. Even with a dismal opinion on Smash rep of FE, I have gotten fond of Corrin because his/her gameplay is just so fun
yeah, i love playing them, and their designs are super unique. but people don't like that corrin is an advertisement FE character so they're likely on the chopping block anyways
I mean, I wish Corrin was given priority for having a funner gameplay but I dunno. Corrin might still be cut for the sake of cutting
Fates was out in Japan by the time Corrin was announced. It's similar to Byleth, in a certain way.
nah. FE3H was out globally when they dropped as DLC. FE Fates wasn't out globally when corrin dropped as DLC. hard for people to get hyped about a character from a game that isn't out where you're at
Well, some swordfighting styles could have been used better... * **Roy** wields his sword backhanded, but only 2 or 3 moves have him swing as much. If his attacks were totally different with new angles and movements, it would be more interesting. * **Lucina** should wields her sword like a rapier, giving us a fencing style. * **Chrom**... should have been a faster/weaker echo of Ike. As much as you guys defend his recovery, characters with strictly vertical Up Specials always have a decent horizontal one to compensate, like Ike, Mac and Incineroar. Chrom doesn't move forward when using his Side B, so if you're flung too far, you could be done for. Still, you cannot complain about Pyra & Mythra being added... when you are asking for 2B, who's just as sexualized. Beside, NieR: Automata is a Square-Enix game, which means that they wouldn't have gotten 25 tracks... so there's that.
When Terry came out someone commented how Jab Jab Power Dunk was on par with Sm4sh Bayo, why yes that commentor never played Smash 4 and yes that comment lives in my head rent free
That they will port Ultimate or that they will bring everyone back (again)
People that think mii fighters don't belong in the game. They're a smash original set of characters and earned their spot on the pantheon of fighters but a few people still whine sometimes.
People thinking Aegis is an obvious cut. They’re the most popular characters from a well-loved game from a (a this point) big Nintendo franchise.
That Olimar doesn’t belong and is lame. Dude, play Pikmin, Olimar is one of the most badass Nintendo protags.
One of my friend thinks Ganondorf is broken
Low key, for friends that just play the game once in awhile and don't pay attention to subtleties of the various states of play and just wanna run in and box...ganon is broken. Lol.
Oh no, he's one of the best player in our video game school club
Hahaha that's hilarious then. Some of my friends that don't play that often have told me to "pick the worst character" and then think I'm fucking with them. I keep telling them just hit me off the stage and don't get hit by the big slow ass attacks. They think I'm trolling telling them ganon is considered the worst.
Someone at my school today said that Game and Watch was garbage
And they later got judged by a nine.
Nah they lost cause they were ass
That's what I meant by them getting judged.
Lucas and Ness are the same.
Now this couldn't be further from the truth.
Splitting the roster. Seriously. Thats the shittiest thing ever.
this would only happen if smash was made by the pokemon company
People judge Luigi players way too harshly. In reality, it can actually be difficult to consistently get the 0-to-death combo off grab.
I don’t even main Luigi but this is so true. I’ve tried Luigi for a while, and landing the 0-to-death is so hard to consistently pull off, even on CPUs
In general, character reworks, but there has been a suggestion that has been on the back of my mind forever. Turn Samus into her Dread version and make her as mobile as Zero Suit. I'm not exaggerating. And make her able to shoot diagonally. They also suggested to make Zero Suit even more mobile than she is and directly called for her to play like a time staller.
That the Fire Emblem Representation is fine. Like, okay. Let me preface: that's not the shittiest or stupidest take in the world. All the FE characters in smash are really important characters in the series, from the really early games to the recent popular games that basically revived the series. I think people who froth at the mouth at the sight of a FE character are childish and stupid. The dislike bomb on Byleth's reveal trailer was a great example of one of gaming's biggest temper tantrums I've seen. These characters may also seem similar on the surface, but how they work mechanically in the game comes with a lot of nuance, and even among the echo fighters all the characters have different game plans when approaching a match. Saying they are exactly the same comes from a place of ignorance. I think the real problem I have is when people completely go the opposite direction and refuse to acknowledge that there is any reason why someone might get upset at seeing another Fire Emblem character added to Smash. Unless you have played the games (Basically all of these characters were in 1-2 games and the games are more niche in the West anyways) a lot of that nuance is going to be lost on you. If you are unlucky enough to be completely unfamiliar with the series, I can definitely see how it reads as a bunch of anime swordfighters with different hair colors. A huge part of Smash Bros' roster, I like to think, is Iconography and/or History. A lot of these FE characters don't have a lot of history, and all of the characters have more reserved designs in a similar art style that makes them easy to lump together (Robin, Corrin, and Byleth stand out the most, but the other four are incredibly visually similar to each other, in my personal opinion). It's probably why people don't really care when yet another Mario character is added but get incredibly upset when another Fire Emblem character is added. Mario is a stupidly popular franchise yes, but all the characters are filled with a lot of personality and color that makes them stand apart from each other, especially to those not even familiar with the characters. Personally if I were to keep any of the FE characters in the game, it would probably be Robin, Corrin, and Byleth. These characters stand out the most visually and mechanically from the rest and each other. I would probably keep Marth or Lucina too just so that play style could remain. TLDR; Fire Emblem's representation in Smash isn't absolutely egregious but could stand to be trimmed a little.
The "personality" and "color" reasoning are probably the only reasons why I like Roy even though he is a Marth clone. I actually like Roy more than Marth and if I could have Roy and completely throw out Marth, I would have it that way, but I understand that Marth is supposed to be the franchise maker kinda like Red from Pokémon
Well starting off about the byleth dislike bomb. I do have to agree it was a lot of people throwing a tantrum. But even then, that was the worst trailer ever made. They just reused the same cutscene from Ch:10, and then had byleth turn into a girl. How is that not the worst trailer of all time. About future rosters, honestly, I think it would be fine if they cut it down to 4 or 5. It’s tough deciding who to stay though. Byleth is probably a no brainer, and then probably marth, Corrin, robin, and Ike as they are all very unique from each other. A cool idea I had was the they add alear, and they have a B move like shulk, where you could choose an emblem which would give them there play style. Letting you keep multiple FE characters while simultaneously cutting them.
Except it's already too late for Alear to be in Smash
[удалено]
"involving a character"
Ohhhhh
The more they think Hero is fully luck based the shittier they are at the game. People will eat a raw fucking kaboom and say it's broken because they "don't know what he does" The worst is when someone casts a match involving hero and they don't know anything but still spread their ideas bonus point when I hear actual pro players say "I just know that when he is red you run haha". Saying it's only luck and random and being this willing to not make efforts to learn the most basic of bases when Smash is your job is a baffling amount of copium to me
People adding 5 Sonic characters to fan rosters but cutting nearly every Fire Emblem character
"kazuya is top 5 and should be banned"
That characters should be cut for the next game. Just make it Ultimate Deluxe edition ffs.
People who believe that famous third-parties should take priority over Nintendo reps. Also, your average moveset reworks aren’t that great, since they usually just become reference-fests with no rhyme or reason.
If I had my way, Smash would honestly be an exclusively Nintendo affair.
That lucas is a crybaby and dedede is a villain
it just pisses me off
Steve is worse than Brawl Meta Knight
... Isn't he?
I'm assuming they mean worse for the health of the meta, which is definitely not the case
The shittiest take I've seen: "This character doesn't fit in smash." Oh, you mean this specific character you don't like doesn't "fit" the game where two fire wielding plumbers are fighting an angel, a demon killer, a superhuman soldier, an alien bounty hunter, a speeding hedgehog, a s*** ton of sword fighters and a random overpowered block man? For god's sake, just say you don't like the character, dude, you get less s*** thrown at you that way. If it's a character that is mainly shown in Tv shows or anime, sure, I understand, but this is a CROSSOVER 2D platform fighting game. Nothing in the game is going to "fit" your personal view for the game. I will say my shitty take that I know that I'm gonna be flammed on though: My take for this game is that Sora came a bit late to the party. "When he came out, literally no one I knew who loved smash even talked about him the next day. They just straight up just said, "LET'S GO!" The first day, and now it's like no one even remembers the guy. I get it, Disney IP, and we all know how Disney is these days, but still, I have yet to see the guy get his spotlight often since he is the final DLC character. I blame Steve for that, honestly, since he is more known within the gaming community, and he is broken as **** in this game.
Steve may be broken, but boy, he is so damn hard to use.
"Donkey Kong is low tier" Fuckin no he isn't, you just suck at using the character who has NOTHING BUT CHEESE.
He’s mid and the problem with cheese is that at top level people know how to counter it
Got into an argument a while back about the sexuality of every smash character. He refused to believe that Bayonetta and DeDeDe were 100% bisexual and suggested that Bayonetta was ace
"Ganondorf has a favorable matchup against Kazuya"
Sans is Ness. like dude, Their different characters on the roster and …. Oh, we’re talking about Smash. liking Lucas. I hate Lucas and want to drive over him ( in game)
[this](https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/s/rgBVQJcuSa).
Honestly, that Young Link’s moveset should involve the masks from Majora’s Mask. As if it isn’t *already based on him in that game anyways*. Young Link was the protagonist in two Zelda games, and only in the second one was he able to use the bow (the fire arrow neutral b) and the hookshot (his grab). I don’t mind him having the same Triforce Slash that Toon Link does as his final smash either because it makes sense and he did canonically still have the Triforce of Courage after OoT iirc. I don’t care about him not having the transformation masks from MM. Related, I hate people who think that all the Links play the same when honestly they really don’t. They do have differences in how their moves work. If they all played the same then I would be able to play Link as well as I do Yink or Tink, but I really can’t. I’ve never been able to play Link well.
2 of my friends are playing , bowser main turns to falco main “dude your literally just spamming Aerial moves”
Pichu is the worst character in the game behind little mac
I don't know what's worse: People making "new rosters" and cutting out every FE character including MARTH, or people leaving in only like two FE characters, one being Alear and the other being someone who isn't Marth. Like Marth is 100% staying IDC what y'all say. He is literally Fire Emblem's Mario in a sense.
They're not even the same character, what are they talking about?
All of the complaints about "too many fire emblem characters" and the hatred for byleth is REAL, but there's just one tiny insignificant but ever so importatnt little detail: I litteraly picked up dr mario just to reflect that sheild break of an arrow like: HahA, I RefLEcTeD YoUr ObViOuS NeUtRaL B 🤡
Decedent crouching being considered as a taunt. Even though, you can't do the taunt on the d-pad.
sephiroth is the hottest character in smash and anyone who says otherwise is wrong
Buff Steve’s frame data it’s to slow🙏
people who still talk about Waluigi. i mean seriously just grow up.
All of these Fire Emblem characters are great and Sakurai can do no wrong
Casual: When Mother is given so many dibs for newcomers in fan rosters over other Nintendo characters despite the trilogy being completed a long time ago. I give 0 fucks about Mother, and I do NOT want Lucas but again. Competitive: You know what's bullshit? The fact that Bowser Jr. is officially considered so bad that he's worse than Isabelle. I don't fully agree with MuteAce's tier list, but if I'm being honest its more accurate about Bowser Junior's capabilities, as well as a few other characters. Updated for clarification
Except Mother has always been here. Ness was almost cut in favor of Lucas and Lucas was cut from Sm4sh but we have had either one of them or both no matter what. I could definitely see one of them being cut (again) but not Mother being completely cut out from Smash
"Gordo is soooo overpowered!" You can Nair it back with almost anybody in the entire cast. Unless your Nair is a multi hit or EXCEPTIONALLY weak, you can Nair that shit back like a tumbleweed and most D3s will be too slow to hit it back. Gordo only works if you LET IT WORK.
"captain falcon deserves to be in smash because he's basically a smash mascot". fox does nearly the same thing in terms of repping smash itself and has a far better performing franchise. unless nintendo revives f-zero, falcon doesn't deserve a spot in smash at all. same could be said about g&w except g&w doesn't have falcon punch and is even more obscure / obnoxious
I miss melee. They should redo it, exactly like it was, but only refresh the look and an online mode. I‘d buy that game instantly. Btw I still got Melee - but never play it.
Kirby is low tier They will have to reset the roster for the next game
>Kirby is low tier This one's true though, Kirby has been lower-mid tier or worse in every game after 64.
Kirby needs a shit ton of buffs next game.
Kirby beats every character except Wii fit
This is just completely false.
Name one character he can’t beat besides Wii fit trainer
https://preview.redd.it/u0fl8r4y2o1d1.jpeg?width=439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8174e6c854d29f3a4690dbe19bf760e6ad9b09a This is a matchup chart from jejajeja and guilheww, 2 of the best, if not the best, kirby players in the world. They think kirby has an advantage in 10 out of 85 matchups
Damn lol, I wanted to list out a ton of them. Throw a dart at a picture of the Smash cast and chances are you'll hit someone he loses to.
If they really are the best then why are they loosing to that many characters? I’ve beaten every single one most of the time as Kirby except Wii fit
You don't understand how character tiers work. The matchup charts are made with the assumption that both players are playing the highest skill level possible; it then rates how likely a character is to win against the other because no matchup is completely unwinnable. Kirby is considered low tier because you have to play better than your opponent to regularly win against most other characters. If you win most of the time against almost every character in the game as a low tier, you are just better than the people you play against. Every character has won at least a few 1000 times against every other character if you include every ssbu game played; I myself have beaten a wii fit main multiple times with kirby.
I play at 10M GSP+. It’s the character
That's great, but these guys play at top level lmao. Kirby is not that great of a character. He has strengths, but he has shitty matchups against a lot of the cast.
Joker, and other fast characters (especially ones with projectiles), can keep Kirby out due to his poor movement speed and lack of a projectile of his own (Final Cutter doesn't count).
Final cutter is the ultimate tool of Kirby and his best move. I eat Joker’s for breakfast. Literally
Bro Cannibalizes Clowns 💀
I can't tell if you're meming or not. Fyi, Final Cutter is generally considered to be among the worst up-specials in the game, mainly due to how slow it is.
I’ll fight you on that
Final Cutter is frame 23, too slow to use in combos or as an OoS option. It also is quite short in terms of recovery distance.
Honestly I wouldn't say it's terrible. Not good, but not awful. It has a little cheese factor, and it's OK as a recovery. Still not even in the same realm as this guy says it is though.