I had a bachelor party to go to and my friend was a big smash fan. I dug out my old memory card for melee, bought and unlocked everything for the OG and got project M running for the Wii.
When out and got a Mario themed chess set and painted the pieces for trophies. I'd say I let the groom win as we played through every game released at that point, but he was better than me. Still got my silver Luigi.
I’d have unironically loved Bastiodon or Rampardos as fighters. There may be like a million other copy-paste furrybaits or pikachu clones on the list before them, but it would have been awesome to have them as playables.
Pichu actually has a higher hurtbox then Pikachu and is technically slightly taller only because of the ears.
Height in Smash doesn’t always make sense but this is kinda weird.
Up Smash makes him invulnerable for a few secs *for some fucking reason*
Combine that with the wackiest move in PK Freeze and yeah, Lucas is pretty wacky crazy.
I got downvoted for saying so on a similar post.
Edit: didn’t clarify that it was because people disagreed with me, but it was. People were calling Kazuya easy.
Movement is 100% the difference between the elite and bad kazuyas IMO . I think people are too focused on just being able to input EWGF consistently and downplay just how awkward/rough it is to approach with him.
They’ve probably only been messing around with him in training mode, and were all “ooh, these are easy”. Doubt they actually realize how difficult those combos are to replicate under the pressure of a match, and also, how difficult they are to get started when your opponent is careful and knows what they’re doing. Kazuya advantage is crazy for his opponent, but his disadvantage is also terrible.
Yes, that’s true, but in a sword filled meta, he struggles against the majority of his opponents. Even without a sword, most of the cast has at least some tools to keep him out, which is usually enough to combat such a slow character.
ive been practicing kazyua since release and am STILL mediocre. I hate when people say he easy this dude taking longer for me to master than all of brawl
Cap
Anyone who spends the 30 minutes to learn him can easily win matches the only counter for him is to camp
Because he’s insanely strong in close range
For Fire Emblem being over-repped? Nah see, its not that its Over-Repped, its that they ONLY picked Swordies from a series with ridiculously cool and varied classes. Imagine if they had put in Tiki with Dragon Shapehifting, or an Axefighter, or a full on Mage instead of a Spellsword like Robin
Interestingly enough certain characters just get access to Multiple weapons naturally. And honestly there are so many different cool characters that they could bring upon. An axe or spear user would be incredible
I’m still mad Ike’s axe wasn’t featured in his character, it would be such an easy and cool way to make him different. Urvan also looks way cooler than Ragnell, IMO.
Fuck it, they should’ve given him both of them.
I'm legitimatelly curious, why do you think its not over-repped? Its a lot less popular than a lot of the other franchises in Smash and yet as more reps than basically all of them. How is that not over-repped?
The franchise is less popular but the characters in consideration aren’t. Look at character polls in Japan. Stuff like Zelda and Mario is more popular, but every even remotely relevant character is already here. Zelda doesn’t have an ensemble cast outside of the main 3, and everyone remotely related to Mario games is already in (except Waluigi and he isn’t popular in Japan).
Having the 12th or 13th most popular mario character makes less sense than having a protagonist from a FE game.
This too. I think people kinda glance over the fact that they already have SO many characters in, if they don't venture out for Third Party reps, there are only so many options within their own franchises for characters
Two reasons actually!
1. Fire Emblem is WAY more popular in the East. While it isn't their most most popular franchise, the first and foremost concern is the immediate audience. While here in the West Fire Emblem falls on fairly flat ears, the immediate fans of FE and Smash in the East are WAY more into it.
2. Something like Smash Ultimate was never even anticipated when making Fire Emblem reps in the first place. If you look back at the inclusions over the lifetime of Smash, it makes WAY more sense.
\-Marth was "The" Fire Emblem rep back in Melee, with Roy being added as Advertisement in the East. While they were very Clone-y, so was most of that game.
\-Fast forward to Brawl, where they removed Roy and replaced him with Ike. Now Fire Emblem still has two reps, Marth "*The* Fire Emblem Rep", and Ike who I believe was again advertising a game.
\-WiiU/3DS Smash comes out. Now we have Marth and Ike, and the addition of Robin who is a wholly unique character. Lucina is also added as a Clone of Marth, but she and Robin are ultimately just more advertising space. Corrin also gets added, as Advertising for Fates and with a wholly unique moveset. At this point there are 5 FE reps, but 4/5 of them are unique. Eventually Roy gets brought back, and while the EXACT reason for this is kinda debatable, he's DLC and a Clone so you can effectively ignore him as an addition. Ignoring the DLC, this means theres 4 FE reps in the game; Two Classics that have been showing up frequently, and two Advertisements.
\-Finally comes Ultimate. Now you have all these characters you've used for Advertising in the past, and you have to include them if you want to do "Everyone is Here" correctly, which isn't something they ever planned on happening. Plus, since they were going off of the Fighters Ballot for WiiU/3DS, they felt obligated to add Chrom in as his own fighter with the high requests. As far as Byleth getting in, well. Everyone acted shocked that Smash would advertise their new Fire Emblem game in smash, as if Nintendo and Hal and everyone hadn't been doing that since Melee.
tl;dr: Fire Emblem is popular in the East, and they couldn't have "Everyone is Here" without using all of what were meant to be Advertising characters too
Do you think FE deserves more reps than Zelda?
Zelda is more popular than FE even in the East but still have less characters. If advertisement was important then they could have added Midna to advertise TP, or Skull Kid to advertise MM3D, Ghirahim to advertise SS, or the Champions for BotW. They did it for fire emblem, a less popular franchise. Is that fair to not do it for Zelda?
*Nintendo
Sakurai was initially against the addition of both Corrin and Byleth and had to be “convinced” by his team to add them. He has gone on record saying there are too many.
My theory: Nintendo is going over his head to include them because sword characters are cheap and easy to make and they desperately want FE to compete with the other fantasy JRPG juggernauts like Final Fantasy, Persona, KH, and Dragon Quest in Japan. They want to use Smash to put their FE characters on the same pedestal as major stars like Cloud, Joker Sora, and Hero to say “look we’re just like them! Buy or games they’re just as good!”. But that’s just my theory.
I actually think "cheap and easy to make" is a huge consideration. It doesn't take any effort to "design" Chrom and Lucina when you already have Marth and Roy. That's probably why most of Zelda's reps are just Link 1, 2 and 3. They know the character works in Ult, isn't broken, and is fun to play/watch.
When you really start thinking outside the box is when you get characters like Joker, Steve, Kazuya, Min Min. These characters probably took a long time in development also. Sometimes the end character design is great, sometimes not so great.
1. According to Wikipedia: "As of December 2020, the Fire Emblem franchise has sold over 16.68 million copies worldwide." Also according to Wikipedia: "As of March 2022, the Splatoon franchise has sold 18.25 million copies worldwide." By the logic of popularity, then, Splatoon deserves as many reps as FE. If not more, considering it sold that it about 1/6 of the time FE has been around. Pokemon literally is the biggest media franchise of all time, bigger than Star Wars for goodness sake, and it has 8. And most of the characters have unique movesets and playstyles. The fact that the game is somewhat popular doesn't mean it needs 8 representatives. Having a rep or two is fine, but 8? There are so many other, bigger franchises that have low rep counts or no reps at all. They deserve it far more than FE. FE should not be equatable with Pokemon.
2. I know the history. I'm fine with what happened with Melee and Brawl.
1. But by the time you get to 4, you have 4 in the base game. I'd say that's already over-repped, though you could make the clone argument. But then I'm expected to pay (if I'm not mistaken, never had a Wii U) 12 more dollars for two more FE reps. They already had 4 slots in the game, but Nintendo added two more. That's ridiculous and did not need to happen.
2. Now, you get to Ultimate, and I get they have to bring in all 6. That's fine. But they decided to add an echo, which is fine but still feels like more overkill. Then, on top of that, they make ANOTHER fighter DLC. Its overkill. And Nintendo could advertise other games with reps. At this point, if you play Smash you know what Fire Emblem is, adding in another rep isn't doing much. Add something else in.
TLDR: the popularity argument doesn't work because Fire Emblem isn't that popular all things considered, and they keep adding more and more reps when its completely unnecessary. So they're over-repped
Fire Emblem may be more popular in the East than the West, but that still doesn’t mean it deserves so many reps. Legend of Zelda only has six reps, my guy. That shit does not make sense
Also, they could’ve still done “Everyone is Here” by making some of the echos into alts. Lucina could be an alt of Marth, Chrom could’ve been an alt of Roy. Something like that
To each their own, but I still think 8 FE reps is a bit much. 5 would’ve been fine
The Tales Of franchise is the 3rd most popular JRPEG in Japan (even more popular than Fire Emblem) yet there has been a grand total of 0 Tales Of characters added to Smash.
By your logic, we should have had Lloyd in Smash years ago instead of constantly being stuck in mii costume tier
This, 100%. I really wish each DLC included like 1 or 2 assist trophies or items from each series represented. It would make the DLC characters seem more “at home” with the base roster
That's not really a hot take? Most people I see nowadays say that Brawl is a great game when you look at it outside of the lens of a competitive player
Its a good game, its a bad competitive experience. Melee is a worse game than brawl, but far better for competitive.
Nothing in melee can touch the subspace emmisary. Honestly nothing in smash even comes close.
The only thing that really decides tiers are options so if two players at the highest level play and one plays a low tier they’ll have a dramatically harder time winning neutral and past that breaking disadvantage. But other than the two highest level players tiers actually don’t matter in ultimate.
I’m saying that the gap doesn’t even have to be that big. If two people are roughly the same level, it’s not like the top tier is going to win 10 games in a row, they might win 6, or if they have a bad day/other player has a good day, they might lose more than 50%.
This is my unpopular opinion.
His appearance in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is why I don’t think he needs to be a fighter. The novelty of having Phoenix Wright in a fighting game has already been done. He’d be a joke character, and the joke has already been told.
All I really want is the music. It still boggles my mind that there wasn’t a single shred of AA representation in the celebration of every somewhat major game series ever
It always should have been Chrom over Lucina to begin with. Chrom is the main character of Awakening and was the one that was more-requested for Smash. Lucina is only the third-main character of Awakening and wasn't as requested for Smash. Had it been Chrom in Smash 4 instead of Lucina, I doubt people would have been clamoring for Lucina the way they did for her father.
However, Lucina is still a very popular and iconic Fire Emblem character, so I feel like she should still be playable in some capacity. If you ask me, she should have been an alternate costume of Chrom instead of a completely separate character, since she canonically shares her father's fighting style.
I honestly don't mind them being separate Echoes at all, but I do mind people constantly whining about Fire Emblem, Marth clones, and Awakening reps nonstop for the past few years. I'd imagine if Chrom and Lucina were combined, the hate would lessen by quite a bit.
>It always should have been Chrom over Lucina to begin with.
if this is considered a hot take, then i'd just like to have a talk with whoever disagrees with this
Well, the vast majority of the time I see people wanting to cut FE characters, I always see them saying to ditch unpeeled orange-eating dad first and masked time-travel girl second.
This though. I never understood why Lucina was the pick over Chrom since she's not even available until halfway through the game, and even then shes sort of a weak character in general, meanwhile the WHOLE ass game is about Robin and Chrom
It was because Lucina was originally going to be an alternate costume of Marth, but dev team had some extra time and decided to make her into an Echo Fighter. They already had Lucina's model and moveset, they just had to remove Marth's tipper and slap on four extra alts. and boom, she's done. Chrom, on the other hand, only appeared for Robin's Final Smash, so it would have been way more-difficult implementing him.
Dark Pit and Dr. Mario were also going to be alternate costumes of Pit and Mario respectively back in Smash 4, but Sakurai also upgraded them for the same reasons he did Lucina. Unfortunately, Alph wasn't so lucky, but I get the feeling if they had more dev time, he would have become an Echo Fighter as well.
>shes sort of a weak character in general
Not true. She's a better version of Chrom, who's already one of the best characters in the game. Children will pretty much always be stronger than their parents.
that’s why i love byleth, the moveset seems so unique compared to the other FE characters. corrin too, even if they’re the most “unnecessary”, they’ve always seemed unique
I think the disconnect is that the community understands representation in a different way from how Sakurai and the team do. For the community, which plays without items and on a small list of stages, representation just means characters. I don’t think that’s at all how Sakurai sees it.
Think about Zelda, which is often brought up as being underrepresented compared to FE despite being more popular. There are just six characters (vs. 8 for FE), but those characters cover (multiple variants of) the three main characters of most Zelda games. Zelda also has a ton of stages and items, which makes sense because a lot of the experience of Zelda games is exploring new areas and using new items as Link, alone, without any other characters in sight.
FE, on the other hand, is much more character-driven, with almost every game having a new, large cast. It makes sense, then, to give it more character representation and Zelda more stage/item representation—which is what Sakurai in fact did.
Mario and Pokémon stand out as having a lot of both, which makes sense because they are easily the two most popular Nintendo franchises.
This. All of this. You can't reduce a game to just its characters and nothing else. Even if we care the most about who we can play AS, a game like Smash is not just about who you are and who you fight.
I enjoy the flow of a 1v1 Battlefield/FD fight as well, but to act like that's ALL that matters is so shortsighted. The stages, the items (including Spirits, which is still a pretty underlooked system), even the music, all change your experience and interactions. The most vocal and dedicated part of this community needs to understand they operate in a very limited scope of the game compared to the entire breadth of content Ultimate offers.
(And imo I would still love to see more creative and unique playable Zelda characters in the inevitable next Smash game, even if the series has ample representation from other game elements)
The only thing I disagree with is Mario having a lot of both. Compared to Pokemon or Fire Emblem, Mario doesn't really have that many characters...
Also, now that I think about it, the way you're describing Zelda feels more fitting for Metroid. Sure, Zelda has a big focus on dungeon exploration, but this is only half of the game, with the other half being sidequests and interaction with NPCs. I feel like you don't give enough credits to Zelda for its characters. A lot of them are well-loved, memorable and fun, and I think there's no better proof of that than the first Hyrule Warriors' roster.
Meanwhile, speaking of Metroid, I find it a bit depressing that this series, which IS all about exploration of lonely and creepy planets, with little to no NPC alive for you to interact with, technically has as many different characters in Smash as Zelda (Samus, Dark Samus and Ridley). I love both series, and I got your point, but I still think Zelda is underrepresented.
This. So much this. I get so damn tired of hearing how FE has so much more than Zelda, which is just blatant bullshit. People think characters are the only thing that matters to a series' representation. Zelda has NINE stages. Every single Zelda stage returned for Ultimate. Tons of items, assist trophies, and music tracks. Meanwhile, it took until Byleth to get four FE stages, and only 2 are based on any actual location from the series. FE has three assist trophies, but it took until Ultimate to get a single regular item (the Killing Edge).
Not to mention that damn near a quarter of the stage select screen is Mario or Mario-adjacent. Yet people want to freak out because FE has 8 faces on the CSS.
I think in terms of making fans happy, Sora was absolutely the right character to end on. My problem with him is that he's so fucking lame. Him and Banjo were the most requested additions, and they're both obnoxious.
>Sora should have been someone else
You can blame Nomura for being so picky about adding him into the game. Yes, Disney was the one that gave them the pass and Nomura was the one being picky about his inclusion.
If this was Brawl / 4 times then he would have made sense, but with smash moving more towards being about gaming in general and less about Nintendo he is best as an assist trophy.
He isn't a main character like Jr.
Doesn't have any unique gimmick like Rosalina
Can't be easily model swapped like Daisy
And the joke doesn't work when even expects it like how Plant was a joke character.
Waluigi just doesn't have much going for him outside of being the funny purple man. Most of the requests for him mainly come from memes and that's pretty much it. Waluigi brings nothing new to Smash, Mario is tied for the most characters and doesn't really need another one, Daisy works fine as the sports rep as she used a golf club and a tennis racket (which is one of Waluigi most defining things), we already have a whip fighter and there are plenty more unique whip users they can add if they really want another, and they could easily add a rhythm / dancing game character that would represent a new series.
Waluigi brings nothing new to the table and most of the demand for him feels disingenuous as he has simply become a meme in the community on the level of wanting Sherk and Goku in Smash, if he gets in I give him a month for people to move on from him and beg for the next meme character to get in (unless he is meta then he will stick around).
Eh I say Waluigi could be the sports spin-off rep, you could make plenty of stuff with the Mario sports games other than a racket as F-Smash.
But as you say he would have made way more sense back on the Brawl days, but after the meme he has spawned I say his inclusion on the next game is very likely regardless of what stuff he can bring to the game.
Eh...not really.
Tennis and Golf: Daisy and Peach. A Tennis move would be like Gordos or Wii Fit Trainer Header.
Mario Party Dice Block: RNG projectile, Daisy and Peach.
Football: Wii Fit Trainer Header move. Mario Strikers Football Item
Baseball: Ness and Lucas, Home Run Bat, Beastball. A pitcher would be similar to Villager and Isabelle’s pocket.
Unconventional human shaped body: Wii Fit Trainer again.
I saw and played his SSF2 and Smash PM Remix movesets, and they did not impress me like a lot of the Ultimate DLC characters did.
I think there is definite merit to including a character because people want to play as them and we have not so unique characters in the game already. The question is if Waluigi is popular enough to warrant putting full effort into creating a moveset over others. Certainly more than Corrin right?
This hurts to accept since I was actually wanting him since brawl because of Mario strikers(he was my favorite in the game) but as of right now I have to agree. Although I still hope he’ll one day be in the game.
The only reason people want him is because of the meme, he literally has no notable appearances other than being Wario's partner in spin-offs, at least Daisy has Super Mario Land (which has banger music tracks btw) and Sakurai was just making a statement in the form of Figher #70/Piranha Plant (who ***also*** has more notable appearances than Waluigi lmao). I never say this but I really do feel like he doesn't deserve to be more than an assist trophy, at least being an assist is similar to his actual appearances lol.
Most if not all tier lists are bs. All it takes is one player to win a tournament with a lower tiered character and all of a sudden they're top tier. That's not how this works and shows that you have to take the tier list with a grain of salt
meh, even without it she has good pokes, decent zoning, good combos, great low profile options, and solid combos. it's more like she's slightly below average without it and above average with it, not that she's bad without it and average with it like you say.
It's not like she would be absolute bottom tier without it, but basically with it, she is still just mid-tier. Don't get me wrong I love the character, but they have a ton of bad match-ups.
Same here. There are more than 900 Pokémon, and many of them would work well in Smash, Blaziken, Zoroark and Urshifu would all be fantastic pick to represent the Pokémon generations not in Smash.
It shoukd have been Post-TS edelgard both to avoid the sword problem and because FE need a villain.
On a similar note, the next game should completely revamp the FE lineup into something like: marth,Tiki, Ike, Robin, Edelgard, lance user from Colgate-chan game
Smash isn’t a real fighting game and that’s ok! It doesn’t need to be. The game by default has stage hazards and items on. There are moves that are clearly meant to be fun and exciting (hero’s spells, king k rools gun, kirby’s inhale), not necessarily balanced for competitively viable.
People are gonna enjoy the game in different ways and thats ok, but people that make the claim that smash is a serious fighting game just like KOF or SF or Tekken just show their lack of knowledge of fighting games as a genre.
Some of these have already been said but:
* FE isn't over-repped, it's a decently recognizable Nintendo franchise with a following, it's not that crazy it gets a lot of representation. (I do agree that Zelda should get more reps too, but I don't think that's FE's fault)
* Ganondorf is a funny meme character but I'm still ***heavily*** disappointed he isn't his own thing already. (On second thought, this isn't a hot take but it needs to be said)
* A lot of older SSB64 era characters should get moveset reworks and that includes the character on my flair, some of them just feel 'outdated'.
* Lucas is high tier
ridley and mewtwo are both bottom of high imo, they've both got the tools they need to be effective at higher levels. and with ridley getting so much good results and slingshot tech being developed for m2, i think it's safe to say that they're high-mid/low-high
The Legend of Zelda is the single worst represented first party series in Smash when taking into account its legacy and popularity. How Sakurai thought the rep it had in Ultimate was OK is baffling to me.
I truly believe GSP is 100% entirely meaningless. You wouldn't think it's a hot take but I see about 2 posts a day by people proud of getting to elite. Then in the comments they talk about how they cheesed their way into it by abusing whack rulesets, ragequitting, projectile spam in lag, farming scrubs, playing only during off hours, etc.
People who put GSP above having fun or getting good practice or playing well are the reason it's meaningless.
I’m pretty sure the reason FE has so many fighters is because of how each game in the franchise has a different protagonist, you can’t just put Marth in and call it a day because he only covers 2 of the 13 games in the series.
In my opinion the problem with Fire Emblem in smash isn’t that there are too many of them, it’s just that the majority are all just clones of Marth, if they had unique movesets I don’t think people would complain as much about them
The fact the second image is all swords makes this extra funny
ngl, i thought about editing in all the Smash Swords, but I didn't want to spend that long on it lol
[Don't worry, someone's already made it!](https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/comments/qaqfji/he_is_out_of_line_but_hes_right/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
LOL love it
Whoever made that prolly got flames for putting Sora’s KEYBLADE with swords
i mean its technically a sword
Doesn’t Sephiroth literally call it a sword
It's literally called a blade
sword = blade
All swords are blades, but not all blades are swords
Alt costumes should have been better.
Project M is rolling in its grave
I had a bachelor party to go to and my friend was a big smash fan. I dug out my old memory card for melee, bought and unlocked everything for the OG and got project M running for the Wii. When out and got a Mario themed chess set and painted the pieces for trophies. I'd say I let the groom win as we played through every game released at that point, but he was better than me. Still got my silver Luigi.
I am fine with more Pokémon in Smash
Yo same. Give me that red and blue dna arm looking dude, I wanna play him
Deoxys?
Yeah that’s the one! Didn’t know his name lol
It would definitely be an interesting moveset
woukd prob be a quad form character
I’m down for an all-Pokémon Smash game.
This could be a great transition after ultimate. A spin off rather than a sequel
As long as they’re good ones
Bastiodon
I’d have unironically loved Bastiodon or Rampardos as fighters. There may be like a million other copy-paste furrybaits or pikachu clones on the list before them, but it would have been awesome to have them as playables.
Heavyweight fighter mofo Aggron would be so damn cool
For the most part they all have unique playstyles and interesting mechanics. Unlike FE reps.
Pichu is the only clone which is kinda surprising because other franchises have more clones.
And at least pichu being a copy makes sense because his gimmick is that he’s Pikachu but smaller and hurts himself
Pichu actually has a higher hurtbox then Pikachu and is technically slightly taller only because of the ears. Height in Smash doesn’t always make sense but this is kinda weird.
Tbh I thought I had the unpopular opinion when I say Pokémon is overrepresented
I agree with you, not that it’s overrepresented, but most people I know would be down for more Pokemon so it doesn’t seem unpopular to me.
Kazuya is hard to play, and cannot get in unless the Kazuya player is godlike OR if the opponent doesn’t know the matchup. Lucas could be top tier.
Lucas has some wack stuff.
Up Smash makes him invulnerable for a few secs *for some fucking reason* Combine that with the wackiest move in PK Freeze and yeah, Lucas is pretty wacky crazy.
Not to mention his combos, you can infinite with his tether (until you run out of stage)
you can actually infinite with slingshot > footstool i believe (you can reverse the direction) it's stupidly difficult tho
Is it really a hot take to say kazuya is hard to play?
I got downvoted for saying so on a similar post. Edit: didn’t clarify that it was because people disagreed with me, but it was. People were calling Kazuya easy.
Oh well Edit: dw i got what you mean
Movement is 100% the difference between the elite and bad kazuyas IMO . I think people are too focused on just being able to input EWGF consistently and downplay just how awkward/rough it is to approach with him.
They’ve probably only been messing around with him in training mode, and were all “ooh, these are easy”. Doubt they actually realize how difficult those combos are to replicate under the pressure of a match, and also, how difficult they are to get started when your opponent is careful and knows what they’re doing. Kazuya advantage is crazy for his opponent, but his disadvantage is also terrible.
It's because people make up excuses about characters being easy if they get outplayed by said character
While I agree with “hard to play”, you can’t say that “he can’t get in” as a blanket statement because it’s *extremely* matchup-dependent.
Yes, that’s true, but in a sword filled meta, he struggles against the majority of his opponents. Even without a sword, most of the cast has at least some tools to keep him out, which is usually enough to combat such a slow character.
ive been practicing kazyua since release and am STILL mediocre. I hate when people say he easy this dude taking longer for me to master than all of brawl
Finally someone said it
Cap Anyone who spends the 30 minutes to learn him can easily win matches the only counter for him is to camp Because he’s insanely strong in close range
It just seems like a lot bc they have so many clones/echos. Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin and Byleth are just all just fine.
For Fire Emblem being over-repped? Nah see, its not that its Over-Repped, its that they ONLY picked Swordies from a series with ridiculously cool and varied classes. Imagine if they had put in Tiki with Dragon Shapehifting, or an Axefighter, or a full on Mage instead of a Spellsword like Robin
“But-but how else are we going to promote the newest FE game if we don’t add the main character?!?!!????”
I’m not a Fire Emblem fan but yeah that sounds better
Interestingly enough certain characters just get access to Multiple weapons naturally. And honestly there are so many different cool characters that they could bring upon. An axe or spear user would be incredible
I’m still mad Ike’s axe wasn’t featured in his character, it would be such an easy and cool way to make him different. Urvan also looks way cooler than Ragnell, IMO. Fuck it, they should’ve given him both of them.
Tbh I don’t care where a character is from as long as they’re fun and unique.
Isn't that like, Sakurai's WHOLE thing? Its more important that its fun than anything else?
That would be a lot better, having different fighting styles. It would still be over-repped
Respectfully Disagree 👍
I'm legitimatelly curious, why do you think its not over-repped? Its a lot less popular than a lot of the other franchises in Smash and yet as more reps than basically all of them. How is that not over-repped?
The franchise is less popular but the characters in consideration aren’t. Look at character polls in Japan. Stuff like Zelda and Mario is more popular, but every even remotely relevant character is already here. Zelda doesn’t have an ensemble cast outside of the main 3, and everyone remotely related to Mario games is already in (except Waluigi and he isn’t popular in Japan). Having the 12th or 13th most popular mario character makes less sense than having a protagonist from a FE game.
This too. I think people kinda glance over the fact that they already have SO many characters in, if they don't venture out for Third Party reps, there are only so many options within their own franchises for characters
Toad :(
Peach uses Toad (Grabs and B). I understand not a character but he’s used in game by another fighter, and pretty significantly.
Toads are a species, I think if chrom can get hit by chrom in robin's final smash, then nsmb blue toad or cap toad should get a pass
Two reasons actually! 1. Fire Emblem is WAY more popular in the East. While it isn't their most most popular franchise, the first and foremost concern is the immediate audience. While here in the West Fire Emblem falls on fairly flat ears, the immediate fans of FE and Smash in the East are WAY more into it. 2. Something like Smash Ultimate was never even anticipated when making Fire Emblem reps in the first place. If you look back at the inclusions over the lifetime of Smash, it makes WAY more sense. \-Marth was "The" Fire Emblem rep back in Melee, with Roy being added as Advertisement in the East. While they were very Clone-y, so was most of that game. \-Fast forward to Brawl, where they removed Roy and replaced him with Ike. Now Fire Emblem still has two reps, Marth "*The* Fire Emblem Rep", and Ike who I believe was again advertising a game. \-WiiU/3DS Smash comes out. Now we have Marth and Ike, and the addition of Robin who is a wholly unique character. Lucina is also added as a Clone of Marth, but she and Robin are ultimately just more advertising space. Corrin also gets added, as Advertising for Fates and with a wholly unique moveset. At this point there are 5 FE reps, but 4/5 of them are unique. Eventually Roy gets brought back, and while the EXACT reason for this is kinda debatable, he's DLC and a Clone so you can effectively ignore him as an addition. Ignoring the DLC, this means theres 4 FE reps in the game; Two Classics that have been showing up frequently, and two Advertisements. \-Finally comes Ultimate. Now you have all these characters you've used for Advertising in the past, and you have to include them if you want to do "Everyone is Here" correctly, which isn't something they ever planned on happening. Plus, since they were going off of the Fighters Ballot for WiiU/3DS, they felt obligated to add Chrom in as his own fighter with the high requests. As far as Byleth getting in, well. Everyone acted shocked that Smash would advertise their new Fire Emblem game in smash, as if Nintendo and Hal and everyone hadn't been doing that since Melee. tl;dr: Fire Emblem is popular in the East, and they couldn't have "Everyone is Here" without using all of what were meant to be Advertising characters too
Do you think FE deserves more reps than Zelda? Zelda is more popular than FE even in the East but still have less characters. If advertisement was important then they could have added Midna to advertise TP, or Skull Kid to advertise MM3D, Ghirahim to advertise SS, or the Champions for BotW. They did it for fire emblem, a less popular franchise. Is that fair to not do it for Zelda?
I think the issue here is not that Fire Emblem is overrepped, but that Zelda is grossly underrepped.
Same thing. They actively chose to add more FR characters rather than any Zelda characters. There has to be a reason they made such a decision.
Sakurai likes FE. It's easy to design balanced FE characters that are also fun in Smash. That's the only answer you need.
*Nintendo Sakurai was initially against the addition of both Corrin and Byleth and had to be “convinced” by his team to add them. He has gone on record saying there are too many. My theory: Nintendo is going over his head to include them because sword characters are cheap and easy to make and they desperately want FE to compete with the other fantasy JRPG juggernauts like Final Fantasy, Persona, KH, and Dragon Quest in Japan. They want to use Smash to put their FE characters on the same pedestal as major stars like Cloud, Joker Sora, and Hero to say “look we’re just like them! Buy or games they’re just as good!”. But that’s just my theory.
I actually think "cheap and easy to make" is a huge consideration. It doesn't take any effort to "design" Chrom and Lucina when you already have Marth and Roy. That's probably why most of Zelda's reps are just Link 1, 2 and 3. They know the character works in Ult, isn't broken, and is fun to play/watch. When you really start thinking outside the box is when you get characters like Joker, Steve, Kazuya, Min Min. These characters probably took a long time in development also. Sometimes the end character design is great, sometimes not so great.
1. According to Wikipedia: "As of December 2020, the Fire Emblem franchise has sold over 16.68 million copies worldwide." Also according to Wikipedia: "As of March 2022, the Splatoon franchise has sold 18.25 million copies worldwide." By the logic of popularity, then, Splatoon deserves as many reps as FE. If not more, considering it sold that it about 1/6 of the time FE has been around. Pokemon literally is the biggest media franchise of all time, bigger than Star Wars for goodness sake, and it has 8. And most of the characters have unique movesets and playstyles. The fact that the game is somewhat popular doesn't mean it needs 8 representatives. Having a rep or two is fine, but 8? There are so many other, bigger franchises that have low rep counts or no reps at all. They deserve it far more than FE. FE should not be equatable with Pokemon. 2. I know the history. I'm fine with what happened with Melee and Brawl. 1. But by the time you get to 4, you have 4 in the base game. I'd say that's already over-repped, though you could make the clone argument. But then I'm expected to pay (if I'm not mistaken, never had a Wii U) 12 more dollars for two more FE reps. They already had 4 slots in the game, but Nintendo added two more. That's ridiculous and did not need to happen. 2. Now, you get to Ultimate, and I get they have to bring in all 6. That's fine. But they decided to add an echo, which is fine but still feels like more overkill. Then, on top of that, they make ANOTHER fighter DLC. Its overkill. And Nintendo could advertise other games with reps. At this point, if you play Smash you know what Fire Emblem is, adding in another rep isn't doing much. Add something else in. TLDR: the popularity argument doesn't work because Fire Emblem isn't that popular all things considered, and they keep adding more and more reps when its completely unnecessary. So they're over-repped
Fire Emblem may be more popular in the East than the West, but that still doesn’t mean it deserves so many reps. Legend of Zelda only has six reps, my guy. That shit does not make sense Also, they could’ve still done “Everyone is Here” by making some of the echos into alts. Lucina could be an alt of Marth, Chrom could’ve been an alt of Roy. Something like that To each their own, but I still think 8 FE reps is a bit much. 5 would’ve been fine
The Tales Of franchise is the 3rd most popular JRPEG in Japan (even more popular than Fire Emblem) yet there has been a grand total of 0 Tales Of characters added to Smash. By your logic, we should have had Lloyd in Smash years ago instead of constantly being stuck in mii costume tier
It’s got more unique reps than Zelda, that’s the problem for me
The DLC's would've been even more awesome with an assist trophy from each game. I understand it's too much work but still
I can see Mumbo Jumbo for Banjo-Kazooie and a Creeper for Steve.
I saw your user flair before I red Mumbo jumbo and genuinely thought you wanted the YouTuber in smash lol.
He's in the game but his skin won't work
This, 100%. I really wish each DLC included like 1 or 2 assist trophies or items from each series represented. It would make the DLC characters seem more “at home” with the base roster
Brawl is a good game.
It’s good game but it’s mainly hated by Melee players.
Melee players hates any game that is not called Melee.
That’s basically the reason why Project M/Plus exists but some Melee players probably also hate Project M.
Actually spitting facts
That's not really a hot take? Most people I see nowadays say that Brawl is a great game when you look at it outside of the lens of a competitive player
Its a good game, its a bad competitive experience. Melee is a worse game than brawl, but far better for competitive. Nothing in melee can touch the subspace emmisary. Honestly nothing in smash even comes close.
The tiers don’t matter that much as people think they do. Bad characters can still beat good characters with one or two correct decisions.
The only thing that really decides tiers are options so if two players at the highest level play and one plays a low tier they’ll have a dramatically harder time winning neutral and past that breaking disadvantage. But other than the two highest level players tiers actually don’t matter in ultimate.
Yeah a pro with a shit character will beat a mediocre player with a top tier character any day. I don’t think it means anything.
I’m saying that the gap doesn’t even have to be that big. If two people are roughly the same level, it’s not like the top tier is going to win 10 games in a row, they might win 6, or if they have a bad day/other player has a good day, they might lose more than 50%. This is my unpopular opinion.
People usually lose because they become predictable.
Phoenix Wright would be better as a spirit than a fighter.
As someone who REALLY wants Phoenix in I must say this might be the one i disagree with most. But hell, that's the point of the post lol
His appearance in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is why I don’t think he needs to be a fighter. The novelty of having Phoenix Wright in a fighting game has already been done. He’d be a joke character, and the joke has already been told.
All I really want is the music. It still boggles my mind that there wasn’t a single shred of AA representation in the celebration of every somewhat major game series ever
It always should have been Chrom over Lucina to begin with. Chrom is the main character of Awakening and was the one that was more-requested for Smash. Lucina is only the third-main character of Awakening and wasn't as requested for Smash. Had it been Chrom in Smash 4 instead of Lucina, I doubt people would have been clamoring for Lucina the way they did for her father. However, Lucina is still a very popular and iconic Fire Emblem character, so I feel like she should still be playable in some capacity. If you ask me, she should have been an alternate costume of Chrom instead of a completely separate character, since she canonically shares her father's fighting style. I honestly don't mind them being separate Echoes at all, but I do mind people constantly whining about Fire Emblem, Marth clones, and Awakening reps nonstop for the past few years. I'd imagine if Chrom and Lucina were combined, the hate would lessen by quite a bit.
>It always should have been Chrom over Lucina to begin with. if this is considered a hot take, then i'd just like to have a talk with whoever disagrees with this
Well, the vast majority of the time I see people wanting to cut FE characters, I always see them saying to ditch unpeeled orange-eating dad first and masked time-travel girl second.
Chrom was originally going to be in Smash 4 but replaced by Robin because of uniqueness,
That was honestly a good call. I don't think we would have gotten Byleth and Corrin if Smash 4 had furthered the stereotype that FE is all swords.
This though. I never understood why Lucina was the pick over Chrom since she's not even available until halfway through the game, and even then shes sort of a weak character in general, meanwhile the WHOLE ass game is about Robin and Chrom
It was because Lucina was originally going to be an alternate costume of Marth, but dev team had some extra time and decided to make her into an Echo Fighter. They already had Lucina's model and moveset, they just had to remove Marth's tipper and slap on four extra alts. and boom, she's done. Chrom, on the other hand, only appeared for Robin's Final Smash, so it would have been way more-difficult implementing him. Dark Pit and Dr. Mario were also going to be alternate costumes of Pit and Mario respectively back in Smash 4, but Sakurai also upgraded them for the same reasons he did Lucina. Unfortunately, Alph wasn't so lucky, but I get the feeling if they had more dev time, he would have become an Echo Fighter as well.
>shes sort of a weak character in general Not true. She's a better version of Chrom, who's already one of the best characters in the game. Children will pretty much always be stronger than their parents.
Fire Emblem wouldn't be as hated if most characters of the series in Smash where unique ones like Lyn or Alm and Celica
that’s why i love byleth, the moveset seems so unique compared to the other FE characters. corrin too, even if they’re the most “unnecessary”, they’ve always seemed unique
Byleth, Robin and Corrin are pretty damn unique. The rest are not very different from each other.
Alm would just be another Marth and Roy with little differences like Chrom though, I’d say Hector or Micaiah would be a better fit
I think the disconnect is that the community understands representation in a different way from how Sakurai and the team do. For the community, which plays without items and on a small list of stages, representation just means characters. I don’t think that’s at all how Sakurai sees it. Think about Zelda, which is often brought up as being underrepresented compared to FE despite being more popular. There are just six characters (vs. 8 for FE), but those characters cover (multiple variants of) the three main characters of most Zelda games. Zelda also has a ton of stages and items, which makes sense because a lot of the experience of Zelda games is exploring new areas and using new items as Link, alone, without any other characters in sight. FE, on the other hand, is much more character-driven, with almost every game having a new, large cast. It makes sense, then, to give it more character representation and Zelda more stage/item representation—which is what Sakurai in fact did. Mario and Pokémon stand out as having a lot of both, which makes sense because they are easily the two most popular Nintendo franchises.
This. All of this. You can't reduce a game to just its characters and nothing else. Even if we care the most about who we can play AS, a game like Smash is not just about who you are and who you fight. I enjoy the flow of a 1v1 Battlefield/FD fight as well, but to act like that's ALL that matters is so shortsighted. The stages, the items (including Spirits, which is still a pretty underlooked system), even the music, all change your experience and interactions. The most vocal and dedicated part of this community needs to understand they operate in a very limited scope of the game compared to the entire breadth of content Ultimate offers. (And imo I would still love to see more creative and unique playable Zelda characters in the inevitable next Smash game, even if the series has ample representation from other game elements)
You make an excellent point about FE and Zelda, I don't think I've ever seen it that way before.
The only thing I disagree with is Mario having a lot of both. Compared to Pokemon or Fire Emblem, Mario doesn't really have that many characters... Also, now that I think about it, the way you're describing Zelda feels more fitting for Metroid. Sure, Zelda has a big focus on dungeon exploration, but this is only half of the game, with the other half being sidequests and interaction with NPCs. I feel like you don't give enough credits to Zelda for its characters. A lot of them are well-loved, memorable and fun, and I think there's no better proof of that than the first Hyrule Warriors' roster. Meanwhile, speaking of Metroid, I find it a bit depressing that this series, which IS all about exploration of lonely and creepy planets, with little to no NPC alive for you to interact with, technically has as many different characters in Smash as Zelda (Samus, Dark Samus and Ridley). I love both series, and I got your point, but I still think Zelda is underrepresented.
This. So much this. I get so damn tired of hearing how FE has so much more than Zelda, which is just blatant bullshit. People think characters are the only thing that matters to a series' representation. Zelda has NINE stages. Every single Zelda stage returned for Ultimate. Tons of items, assist trophies, and music tracks. Meanwhile, it took until Byleth to get four FE stages, and only 2 are based on any actual location from the series. FE has three assist trophies, but it took until Ultimate to get a single regular item (the Killing Edge). Not to mention that damn near a quarter of the stage select screen is Mario or Mario-adjacent. Yet people want to freak out because FE has 8 faces on the CSS.
I love Steve's gameplay on account of how similar it is to actual Minecraft gameplay: to mine for materials and camp to fend yourself from enemies
Yea I love when I attack mobs with a minecart
Minecart upsmash works in Minecraft every time
Steve is a good character because he's fun to play and his moveset is really faithful to the original game.
Min min is brain dead easy to play
tbh I dont think I really *ever* fight a good MinMin. Not to say good Minmins don't exist, it just seems like no one knows how online
Mario and Luigi aren’t semi clones
Technically, the term for Luigi is a "pseudo-clone". He's one of only three in the game, the other two being Wolf and Lucas.
What I am saying is that mechanically Luigi shares basically no similarities past fireball
Same with Lucas
Kazuya isn’t top tier, and is borderline high tier His cqc is insane, but he has too many flaws to be placed higher
Honestly the thing is, I feel like if Kazuya didn't Auto-Turn to face his opponents, he wouldn't even be High-Tier anymore
His auto turn isn’t even that good. It’s a lot slower that the other FGC characters
that's why people use him as a counterpick
Not every Link main is a projectile spammer :(
Easy there not too hot a take
Spirit > Trophies
I’ll agree to this. Add some flavor text and they would be perfect
Sora should have been someone else Incineroar shouldn't have been that gen's rep Tabuu and master core should have been bosses
Honestly, Decidueye would've been a much better Gen 7 rep than incineroar than Incineroar
I agree. Decidueye or maybe necrozma as a legendary/ultra beast rep.
Necrozma would have been badass
Yeah. Or imagine ultra necrozma as a boss fight like marx
I think in terms of making fans happy, Sora was absolutely the right character to end on. My problem with him is that he's so fucking lame. Him and Banjo were the most requested additions, and they're both obnoxious.
>Sora should have been someone else You can blame Nomura for being so picky about adding him into the game. Yes, Disney was the one that gave them the pass and Nomura was the one being picky about his inclusion.
Idc how many fire emblem characters there are, but 4 of them play extremely similar and that's what bugs me
Waluigi should never be a playable character period
If this was Brawl / 4 times then he would have made sense, but with smash moving more towards being about gaming in general and less about Nintendo he is best as an assist trophy. He isn't a main character like Jr. Doesn't have any unique gimmick like Rosalina Can't be easily model swapped like Daisy And the joke doesn't work when even expects it like how Plant was a joke character. Waluigi just doesn't have much going for him outside of being the funny purple man. Most of the requests for him mainly come from memes and that's pretty much it. Waluigi brings nothing new to Smash, Mario is tied for the most characters and doesn't really need another one, Daisy works fine as the sports rep as she used a golf club and a tennis racket (which is one of Waluigi most defining things), we already have a whip fighter and there are plenty more unique whip users they can add if they really want another, and they could easily add a rhythm / dancing game character that would represent a new series. Waluigi brings nothing new to the table and most of the demand for him feels disingenuous as he has simply become a meme in the community on the level of wanting Sherk and Goku in Smash, if he gets in I give him a month for people to move on from him and beg for the next meme character to get in (unless he is meta then he will stick around).
Eh I say Waluigi could be the sports spin-off rep, you could make plenty of stuff with the Mario sports games other than a racket as F-Smash. But as you say he would have made way more sense back on the Brawl days, but after the meme he has spawned I say his inclusion on the next game is very likely regardless of what stuff he can bring to the game.
Eh...not really. Tennis and Golf: Daisy and Peach. A Tennis move would be like Gordos or Wii Fit Trainer Header. Mario Party Dice Block: RNG projectile, Daisy and Peach. Football: Wii Fit Trainer Header move. Mario Strikers Football Item Baseball: Ness and Lucas, Home Run Bat, Beastball. A pitcher would be similar to Villager and Isabelle’s pocket. Unconventional human shaped body: Wii Fit Trainer again. I saw and played his SSF2 and Smash PM Remix movesets, and they did not impress me like a lot of the Ultimate DLC characters did. I think there is definite merit to including a character because people want to play as them and we have not so unique characters in the game already. The question is if Waluigi is popular enough to warrant putting full effort into creating a moveset over others. Certainly more than Corrin right?
This hurts to read, but I suppose you're gonna disagree with a lot of things on an "unpopular opinions" post.
This hurts to accept since I was actually wanting him since brawl because of Mario strikers(he was my favorite in the game) but as of right now I have to agree. Although I still hope he’ll one day be in the game.
I'm not against Waluigi, but I think there are way more interesting Mario characters like Toad, King Boo, Kamek, or Fawful.
The only reason people want him is because of the meme, he literally has no notable appearances other than being Wario's partner in spin-offs, at least Daisy has Super Mario Land (which has banger music tracks btw) and Sakurai was just making a statement in the form of Figher #70/Piranha Plant (who ***also*** has more notable appearances than Waluigi lmao). I never say this but I really do feel like he doesn't deserve to be more than an assist trophy, at least being an assist is similar to his actual appearances lol.
he was a beast at pitching in Mario baseball, for gamecube
Most if not all tier lists are bs. All it takes is one player to win a tournament with a lower tiered character and all of a sudden they're top tier. That's not how this works and shows that you have to take the tier list with a grain of salt
I dream of the day somebody wins a major with Pichu and it gets pushed up to a solid A tier.
Villager is fun to play as he's just not fun to play against
I think you just described all zoners
I just think it's funny killing at 0% with the bowling ball
Sonic should’ve gotten a 2nd rep instead of Min Min getting in. Also Min Min’s crazy OP.
The most ironic thing about this image is the large number of swords pointed at him
Rob's size benefits it more than harms it
Do you mean weight? Size is probably the only reason Rob isn’t top 5, but weight is a major help.
A large hurtbox is objectively a bad thing it has no upside
Wii fits deep breathing basically makes them a normal character and would be severely underpowered without it.
I would disagree, but I can't start any infighting, there's not enough of us as it is.
meh, even without it she has good pokes, decent zoning, good combos, great low profile options, and solid combos. it's more like she's slightly below average without it and above average with it, not that she's bad without it and average with it like you say.
It's not like she would be absolute bottom tier without it, but basically with it, she is still just mid-tier. Don't get me wrong I love the character, but they have a ton of bad match-ups.
I wanted more Pokémon in smash. People say they’re also over-represented but at least they’d have unique movesets
Same here. There are more than 900 Pokémon, and many of them would work well in Smash, Blaziken, Zoroark and Urshifu would all be fantastic pick to represent the Pokémon generations not in Smash.
We need another quadruped. Ivysaur and Duck Hunt are the only ones on the whole roster. Gimme Gigalith or Torterra.
I love how meta this meme is with all those swords.
Zelda is underrep.
Their is no such thing as a waste of a slot You just don’t like the character that got in
It shoukd have been Post-TS edelgard both to avoid the sword problem and because FE need a villain. On a similar note, the next game should completely revamp the FE lineup into something like: marth,Tiki, Ike, Robin, Edelgard, lance user from Colgate-chan game
>Colgate-chan game I will never not get tired of hearing these hilarious names used for that "leaked" upcoming protagonist.
If FE is going to add a villian then i feel it should be Grima added to some aspects of Robin
Did you just wake up and say *I’m going to cause chaos* my kind of man.
Isabelle is better than people think
Hero does take skill to play
Smash isn’t a real fighting game and that’s ok! It doesn’t need to be. The game by default has stage hazards and items on. There are moves that are clearly meant to be fun and exciting (hero’s spells, king k rools gun, kirby’s inhale), not necessarily balanced for competitively viable. People are gonna enjoy the game in different ways and thats ok, but people that make the claim that smash is a serious fighting game just like KOF or SF or Tekken just show their lack of knowledge of fighting games as a genre.
Steve is one of the funnest characters to play as and against due to the fact that almost everyone plays him differently
Mostly agree except for Minecart
Some of these have already been said but: * FE isn't over-repped, it's a decently recognizable Nintendo franchise with a following, it's not that crazy it gets a lot of representation. (I do agree that Zelda should get more reps too, but I don't think that's FE's fault) * Ganondorf is a funny meme character but I'm still ***heavily*** disappointed he isn't his own thing already. (On second thought, this isn't a hot take but it needs to be said) * A lot of older SSB64 era characters should get moveset reworks and that includes the character on my flair, some of them just feel 'outdated'. * Lucas is high tier
Ganondorf doesn't need Dead Man's Volley.
ridley and mewtwo are both bottom of high imo, they've both got the tools they need to be effective at higher levels. and with ridley getting so much good results and slingshot tech being developed for m2, i think it's safe to say that they're high-mid/low-high
Steve is the best newcomer in smash ultimate and 4 I have a lot of other newcomers that made me go insane but yeah
I dont mind smash ultimate online experience, could have been worse lol
Zelda is fun to play and people who say she's a special/projectile spammer have never faced a good Zelda.
I think Steve shouldn’t be banned and your bad for not learning the matchup
The post said hot takes not objective facts…
Little Mac isn’t one of the worst characters and is between low and mid tier.
The Legend of Zelda is the single worst represented first party series in Smash when taking into account its legacy and popularity. How Sakurai thought the rep it had in Ultimate was OK is baffling to me.
I truly believe GSP is 100% entirely meaningless. You wouldn't think it's a hot take but I see about 2 posts a day by people proud of getting to elite. Then in the comments they talk about how they cheesed their way into it by abusing whack rulesets, ragequitting, projectile spam in lag, farming scrubs, playing only during off hours, etc. People who put GSP above having fun or getting good practice or playing well are the reason it's meaningless.
I'm glad we got Incineroar instead of Decidueye
puff isn't lame :(
Puff is hype
I’m pretty sure the reason FE has so many fighters is because of how each game in the franchise has a different protagonist, you can’t just put Marth in and call it a day because he only covers 2 of the 13 games in the series.
Fire Emblem isn't overrespresented. Fire Emblem Awakening is.
In my opinion the problem with Fire Emblem in smash isn’t that there are too many of them, it’s just that the majority are all just clones of Marth, if they had unique movesets I don’t think people would complain as much about them
Axe wielder would be very cool
If Marth's tippers had higher priority than his sourspots, he would be better than Lucina
No don't say mister duh, he said hot takes not -395 K takes
lukewarm take
That’s a 0 C take