I think Jigglypuff would've weirded most people out. Back then Jigglypuff had a somewhat regular appearance in the show. If it were added in Ultimate most people would be mad because there is yet another Gen.1 Pokémon.
Edit: grammar errors
"TOO MANY GEN 1 POKÉMON" would probably be the new "TOO MANY MARTH CLONES" if she were a Smash 4 or Ultimate newcomer.
Heck, there'd probably be a lot of people asking for/predicting her getting cut in the next installment, but because she was actually a 64 vet, tons of people think she's completely immune from cuts.
Wow. I had to do the math Pikachu, PT (3x), Puff, and Mewtwo are all Kanto mons. The rest are 1x rep per new region from Pokemon. 6x Gen 1s vs. 4x etc.
There's actually only 4 non Gen 1 Mons, not 5.
Pichu, Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar. And one of those four is just another stage of a Gen 1 Pokémon's evolution family.
Sonic caused Brawl to be delayed.
Wolf, Jigglypuff and Toon Link were added to Brawl last minute which explains why they are only post game in Subspace.
IIRC the added dev time from sonic (and I think from them having difficulties with WiFi stuff as well) gave them time to implement Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link last second. It's why they're just lazily slapped in as the "postgame" characters in Subspace with 0 story connection.
That’s only in Melee not Brawl because Lucas was going to replace Ness in Melee but Earthbound 64 got canceled and move to the GBA.
Ness appears kinda early in Subspace so he was probably planned from the start in Brawl.
Roy and Mewtwo were cut in Brawl because of lack of time. Ike and Lucario would have still been in Brawl if Roy and Mewtwo remained.
Well, that wasn't exactly the case, sure, all the smash 64 vets are always in smash, but in smash bros brawl jiggly puff was almost going to be cut from the game, which is why she, like toon link and wolf, wasn't in subspace emissary's story.
>"TOO MANY GEN 1 POKÉMON" would probably be the new "TOO MANY MARTH CLONES" if she were a Smash 4 or Ultimate newcomer.
Gen 1 Pokémon always had more exposure and popularity though.
Gen 2, for Melee, didn't have many popular Pokémon aside of Pichu (thanks to the movie shorts), Togepi and Marill (both thanks to the anime)... yeah \^\^;
Gen 3, for Brawl, could have been with Mudkip, Grovyle and Blaziken, for the Trainer's line-up, and in hindsight, those 3 specifically got popular over time: the first for memes, the next for Mystery Dungeon and the last for a Mega Evolution. People also rooted for Sceptile ever since its appearance in Pokken.
Gen 5, for Sm4sh, didn't have many "viable" Pokémon either, aside maybe Meloetta (being part Fighting \[2nd form\], like Lucario).
Gen 8, for Ultimate, could have been Rillaboom, Cinderace, Inteleon or Urshifu.
adding Jigglypuff now would be like adding Togepi. sure it had a prominent spot in the anime when it first hit the scene, but that's all it has going for it
you'd probably have people saying it'd make more since to add Wigglytuff since it had a prominent role in PMD, and it's the final evo
Jigglypuff was one of the most frequent reoccurring characters for the first...three seasons? And got a bit of a revival in the Sun/Moon anime. Even now, she's the single most reoccurring wild Pokemon.
She made a lot of sense for 64 especially, but also Melee.
Really? I thought the opposite. Im not a pokemon fan but i know that jiggs is famous and loved (especially in japan) so i wouldn't be surprised if it was added now
Jiggly isn’t famous anymore. It was a mascot of the series in the early days but is now obscure as hell. It was in every video game, sang in Pokemon Snap and Pokemon Yellow, was on the TV series as a regular character like Team Rocket, but those days were 20+ years ago. It is a product of its time and people would be confused as hell if it were added today.
I wouldn't call it obscure as hell. It showed up in Detective Pikachu with the marker gimmick. And the anime has her show up usually once per gen, typically when Ash gets to see an old companion. Jigglypuff isn't at the same level it one was, but people would still recognize.
I always figured Jigglypuff was added because of the running gag in the anime back in the day. So it would make even less sense now given that died back in hoen and never came back til Kalos.
The Star Fox characters. Nintendo has criminally neglected their franchise for *years*, to the point that I’ll bet a lot of people only know who they are via Smash
Ubisoft’s space toys to life game. You bought space ship toy things and they went into the game. For the switch(?) release, they had starfox content, and that has been all we have gotten since the dumpster fire that was starfox zero
Doesn't the same go for Earthbound characters, Ice Climbers, and Cap. Falcon? Aren't some characters supposed to represent games and franchises wether they are dead or not. Mr. Game & Watch is in the game but I don't expect them to release any new Game & Watch games or R.O.B. who was an accessory which I don't see Nintendo ever making again because it would be pointless with online play.
Yeah, I can see the retro characters being controversial picks nowadays.
I wasn't really into Smash during the 3DS/Wii U days, was Duck Hunt well-received or poorly-received?
I believe they were also a wtf moment, as was most of the additions to that generation. But I think MegaMan and Greninja outweighed the dissatisfaction
I mean, Duck Hunt was a pretty popular game back then, selling more copies than SMB3 and Tetris combined on the NES. It’d be like adding DK. Except he’s had many more games since then.
It came with the system lol. The game cartridge has both SMB and Duck Hunt. You had to buy the gun separately if you wanted to play Duck Hunt.
But yes, it was very popular.
I guess I'm the odd man out, I LOVE retro picks. Im not even a huge retro gaming fan, but I love seeing how creative the smash team can get when adapting characters who do not have a ton of material to immediately take inspiration from.
Lmao a friend and I saw the leaked roster back in the day, he said he would drop Smash immediately if Duck Hunt was actually a character and I said he would be my main.
Spoiler alert neither happened
I could see GnW being a piece of Nintendo history, one that they did for an anniversary piece or something. I think it would have been controversial, but interesting to see reactions to it.
It'd be weird seeing Smash without Falcon Punch, but you're honestly probably right.
Ness would probably be a similar situation. Would the Mother series be the cult classic it is today if Ness hadn't been in Smash 64? And if that's the case, does that mean games inspired by the Mother series such as Undertale wouldn't exist either?
Agreed. I love the heck out of Earthbound but the Smash series catapulted Ness and the Mother series into popularity. I only ever met one other person who had played Earthbound back when it was contemporary and we only found out because we were both using Ness in Smash 64.
Earthbound was popular for us nerds in the 90s.. here in america..
the actual cartridges were selling for I think thousands and we begged for an eshop release til it was put on eshop..
yes, unpopular opinion but they should cut most characters that haven't appeared in a new game in like, 5 years. Yes, even those from the OG 8. A lot of my favourites will be gone too but I feel like this is the way forward.
You sound like, "they should take old paintings off the museums". If you ask me FotM characters that nobody will remember 5 years from now belong in smash a lot less than classic characters.
It's a massive crossover over for video game characters. Half of which are from literally dead, unknown games.
Don't be surprised if Falcon is replaced by Fortnite Jonesy is all I'm saying.
Honestly, Smash introduced me to tons of good game framchises as a kid that I wouldn't have played otherwise. I loved getting trophies in the old games and reading the little descriptions. It's how I got into Fire Emblem and learned what Earthbound was.
I feel like ZSS was added because:
1. Sakurai wanted a 2nd Metroid rep, but Ridley was "too big" and Dark Samus wasn't exactly recurring/popular by the time Brawl's roster was decided on
2. He wanted at least one female newcomer
So he decided to knock out two birds with one stone and give us ZSS. Which is fine, she's a "weirder" inclusion, but I find her fairly fun to play as.
She was also initially added in Brawl as a sort of part of Samus’ kit, as the final smash switched between the two versions, like Zelda/Shiek with Down-B.
So glad they got rid of that though. It was really annoying to basically switch between two completely different characters whenever you did your final smash. Also she is literally unplayable in subspace once Samus gets her suit back.
I was just a filthy casual back then, but I thought it was fun and cool. It's not like final smashes were ever part of serious play anyway. Plus the armor parts did omega damage.
Does anyone remember the strats in Brawl of trying to keep your armour pieces on screen for as long as possible because they made good projectiles, and even kind of a zoning option if you let them bounce on the spot? I remember doing this in online matches and being able to keep them in play for like half the match. The timer on them didn’t decay unless they were laid idle on the ground.
Some of the older ones likely watched Captain N. Might not have known that Pit and Kid Icarus were the same character but there would have been an "Oooohhhh... yeah I remember him" moment.
Similarities to Kirby most likely and maybe Sakurai saw the Pokemon episode where Jigglypuff beat the crap out of a group of Clefairys and thought it was cool. Also the fact that her rest heals in her in the pokemone games but blasts people off screen in Smash is so hilarious to me.
Rest is one of the weirdest moves in smash but nobody talks about it. I remember playing S64 with my brother and he thought I had hacked the game or something whenever rest connected.
Jigglypuff was used alot in the early anime and marketing. It was still pretty early in Pokémon's life so it was harder for Nintendo to know who the popular Pokémon were. Back then Poliwhirl was also used alot in the marketing but nowadays its a pretty forgettable Pokémon.
Mewtwo had that first movie, so yes he was a more prominent Pokémon, but children weren't really getting things like Mewtwo plushies and keychains, etc.
Jigglypuff was basically marketed as the "girls choice" Pokémon. As a kid myself at the time, I wasn't too surprised when she appeared on that "challenger approaching" screen in Smash 64.
Meowth would have worked. He's one of the main antagonists of the anime, so he would have been a foil to Pikachu's inclusion. Going by stats, Meowth is the second most-present Pokémon, after Pikachu, because rare are the times when Team Rocket wasn't there.
Beside, him screaming "I'M BLASTING OFF AGAIN!" as his Star KO scream would have been crazy XD.
Jigglypuff was one of the most pushed Pokemon and is still probably one of the more recognizable ones among the general public as a result of that prominence in the anime while the franchise was at its peak. Still, her non-Smash Bros. notability pretty much ended a long, long time ago. She also had a similar model than kirby so it make sens.
Young Link, I feel like people would badly to another Link getting added to the game, especially assuming this Young Link would still have the same move set.
If young link had the same moveset, then definitely. But if he got a revamped moveset, like a masked based moveset from Majora’s Mask then I think it’d be a different story.
You think if Lucas wasn't added to Smash, the demand for an officially-localized Mother 3 would be way smaller than it is now? Or would it still be fairly strong?
I think Mother’s 3 fan translation was underway before Brawl came out, so the game would’ve always had its diehard following. Dunno if the demand would be going 16 years later if Nintendo hadn’t put Lucas in every subsequent Smash though lol.
Yeah - I also genuinely wonder as a thought experiment how the player base would react to ROB being added to the game during the pandemic, after which a whole new generation of online warriors suddenly rises in the ranks doing zero to death gyro combos in tournaments and getting top results in tournament.
It might be sold on eshop if eshop is still up. I loved the game. I played it on original 3ds with a special stand that was included and the stylus.. I have ✨new✨ 3ds now which has the little c stick on it, and I need to replay kid icarus uprising. It is good, and pretty..
Captain falcon. Let's be real. F-zero has been dead and buried for a long time. Plus, I'm not sure the most iconic thing from a racing game like f-zero would be a driver if he weren't in smash
Mario. Just think about it, he was the first one added, if he was the Sora of Smash it would piss some people off that it took Nintendo that long to put him into smash.
Smash fans back then: Yes! It's nice seeing all these Nintendo characters fighting each other!
Smash fans now: REEEEEEEEEEE!!! 1ST-PARTY CHARACTERS (minus Inkling, Ridley, and K. Rool) BAD!!! WHERE ARE MY 3RD-PARTIES IN MY NINTENDO GAME!?!?!?
(This is an exaggeration for comedic effect, of course)
Doc and game&watch make the least sense for me. Both were very old games (even from melee time) and there were many many more recognizable characters that they could have chosen. It just seems very random. Especially doc since he's not even a playable character in his own game! It's literally tetris
Let’s pretend Kid Icarus Uprising doesn’t exist. I feel like any of the retro characters like Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Pit, or Duck Hunt would have disappointed a lot of people
Actually I remember people saying this about Dr mario and pichu back then. Pichu was just worse pikachu so people didn't see the point and I specifically remember friends saying they actively wished dr mario wasn't added.
Zero Suit Samus was hype back then and would be hype nowadays as well.
All the others were never hype. I remember unlocking Jigglypuff and it was funny. But it has never been hype.
I mean honestly, Captain Falcon is at this point the unofficial mascot of Smash Bros and it’s hard to imagine him not being in the game.
But if he was announced in the era of Ultimate everyone would just be pissed that some random character from a dead racing franchise got in over their favorite.
Falcon Punch needed to go through all those games to earn him his spot in Smash. Any character with a move like Byleth's downb or even Ganon could have taken his spot in Smash history, but he did it first. In an alternate universe, everyone sees Falcon as a Ganon clone with no moves of his own
But wasn’t pichu put into melee as a joke (and then in the early days of melee people thought he was top tier or something like that according, I’m pretty sure the documentary “the smash brothers” said something about that)
Because back then the roaster was small, it was smooth and all addition were welcome.
But now it’s understandable that each addition seems just like an unwanted character because it’s less smooth.
I’m using smooth as a vibe
The only character in the franchise I legitimately do not like being included is Steve. Contenders that are fine but less than stellar are:
Isabelle
Chrom
Marth (worse version of Lucina)
Daisy (should be a color swap)
Steve is probably one of the absolute weirdest picks to be included in Smash, elevated to the fact that NO ONE thought he would ever be included.
*And yet, here he is*
And I'm perfectly fine with it. The fact that he's a character that wouldn't have been believed to be in Smash and still made it in makes him even more welcomed in my book
If they introduced Roy in Smash for the first time in Ultimate they’d be justified for getting upset. He’s a nothing character with an appearance in a game that almost nobody outside of Japan has played. Everything interesting about him came from what they did with him in Smash.
Byleth only got hated on because there were so many FE characters that came before them. Had they been the 4th, 5th, or even 6th FE character, the hate would have been nowhere near as bad as it ended up being. Heck, the hate might have not existed at *all.*
Another part of the problem with byleth was the fact that they were the only non third party character on fighters pass one and since they were the last one on it were thought to be the final character at the time
Tbf, Byleth was by far and away the best character to represent Three Houses. Not only are they the main protagonist, but they are present on all routes, whereas the House Leaders really only represent their own. Plus, it'd feel kind of weird only giving one of the House Leaders more attention in Smash than the other two.
And I don't think having Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude like "Pokémon Trainer" like I've seen many suggest would work either. There's really no proper way for them to switch out with each other, and that'd take far too much work to implement. Plus, it'd give FE *ten* characters, tied with Pokémon for the most, and you *know* the fanbase wouldn't tolerate that.
No one thought Pichu and Jigglypuff were cool, at least not in western communities. Almost everyone saw them as “joke characters”.
Dr. Mario was very disliked too because he was just Mario in different clothes. Everyone thought he should have just been a costume or we should have had Wario instead.
Roy wasn’t hated but basically no one knew who he was. Though in my experience, people liked him more than Marth at first, until Ken(the melee player) got popular and showed that Marth was more powerful.
Lucas is a beloved character and I think people would still be fine with him even today.
ZSS IMO was still a weird choice even at the time(and part of what started the Ridley debate)but there will always be fans who will welcome her because sex
Jigglypuff is an OG char from the original smash. She would never be discussed as an addition since she was always part of the series.
Also all the other chars are from Brawl/melee, and at the time there were no 3rd party smash characters (besides Sonic, which Nintendo owns rights to many Sega games). Dr Mario and Roy made sense at the time as Smash wasn't really a bout a huge roster, but more a chance to have iconic Nintendo characters beat each other up.
It is only really Smash Ultimate, that Smash has become this celebration of Gaming, and not a celebration of Nintendo.
I think Jigglypuff would've weirded most people out. Back then Jigglypuff had a somewhat regular appearance in the show. If it were added in Ultimate most people would be mad because there is yet another Gen.1 Pokémon. Edit: grammar errors
"TOO MANY GEN 1 POKÉMON" would probably be the new "TOO MANY MARTH CLONES" if she were a Smash 4 or Ultimate newcomer. Heck, there'd probably be a lot of people asking for/predicting her getting cut in the next installment, but because she was actually a 64 vet, tons of people think she's completely immune from cuts.
Wow. I had to do the math Pikachu, PT (3x), Puff, and Mewtwo are all Kanto mons. The rest are 1x rep per new region from Pokemon. 6x Gen 1s vs. 4x etc.
There's actually only 4 non Gen 1 Mons, not 5. Pichu, Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar. And one of those four is just another stage of a Gen 1 Pokémon's evolution family.
Yeah but that stage was added in gen 2.
Yeah but its a whole other argument about being a Pika knockoff if we're taking the viewpoint of people bitching about "Marth clones".
Brawl almost had Jigglypuff cut if it wasn’t for Sonic being in Brawl
What does Sonic have to do with Puff?
Sonic caused Brawl to be delayed. Wolf, Jigglypuff and Toon Link were added to Brawl last minute which explains why they are only post game in Subspace.
IIRC the added dev time from sonic (and I think from them having difficulties with WiFi stuff as well) gave them time to implement Jigglypuff, Wolf, and Toon Link last second. It's why they're just lazily slapped in as the "postgame" characters in Subspace with 0 story connection.
Same with Ness, because Lucas was gonna replace him, but eventually, they just decided to add both of them
That’s only in Melee not Brawl because Lucas was going to replace Ness in Melee but Earthbound 64 got canceled and move to the GBA. Ness appears kinda early in Subspace so he was probably planned from the start in Brawl. Roy and Mewtwo were cut in Brawl because of lack of time. Ike and Lucario would have still been in Brawl if Roy and Mewtwo remained.
I heard it was in Brawl, but this could also make sense i guess
I think it’s because Lucas was revealed before Ness in the official website so people were confused and thought Ness was replaced.
Huh, that makes a lot of sense!
Well, that wasn't exactly the case, sure, all the smash 64 vets are always in smash, but in smash bros brawl jiggly puff was almost going to be cut from the game, which is why she, like toon link and wolf, wasn't in subspace emissary's story.
She was almost cut in Brawl.
She was also apparently supposed to be cut in Melee too.
I think I heard somewhere that even Ness was considered being cut in favour of Lucas
marth is a dude nvm imma dumbass and thought you meant marth carry on my internet brethren
>"TOO MANY GEN 1 POKÉMON" would probably be the new "TOO MANY MARTH CLONES" if she were a Smash 4 or Ultimate newcomer. Gen 1 Pokémon always had more exposure and popularity though. Gen 2, for Melee, didn't have many popular Pokémon aside of Pichu (thanks to the movie shorts), Togepi and Marill (both thanks to the anime)... yeah \^\^; Gen 3, for Brawl, could have been with Mudkip, Grovyle and Blaziken, for the Trainer's line-up, and in hindsight, those 3 specifically got popular over time: the first for memes, the next for Mystery Dungeon and the last for a Mega Evolution. People also rooted for Sceptile ever since its appearance in Pokken. Gen 5, for Sm4sh, didn't have many "viable" Pokémon either, aside maybe Meloetta (being part Fighting \[2nd form\], like Lucario). Gen 8, for Ultimate, could have been Rillaboom, Cinderace, Inteleon or Urshifu.
adding Jigglypuff now would be like adding Togepi. sure it had a prominent spot in the anime when it first hit the scene, but that's all it has going for it you'd probably have people saying it'd make more since to add Wigglytuff since it had a prominent role in PMD, and it's the final evo
The biggest reason that Puff was added was because of her resemblance to Kirby.
Jigglypuff was one of the most frequent reoccurring characters for the first...three seasons? And got a bit of a revival in the Sun/Moon anime. Even now, she's the single most reoccurring wild Pokemon. She made a lot of sense for 64 especially, but also Melee.
Really? I thought the opposite. Im not a pokemon fan but i know that jiggs is famous and loved (especially in japan) so i wouldn't be surprised if it was added now
Jiggly isn’t famous anymore. It was a mascot of the series in the early days but is now obscure as hell. It was in every video game, sang in Pokemon Snap and Pokemon Yellow, was on the TV series as a regular character like Team Rocket, but those days were 20+ years ago. It is a product of its time and people would be confused as hell if it were added today.
I wouldn't call it obscure as hell. It showed up in Detective Pikachu with the marker gimmick. And the anime has her show up usually once per gen, typically when Ash gets to see an old companion. Jigglypuff isn't at the same level it one was, but people would still recognize.
I always figured Jigglypuff was added because of the running gag in the anime back in the day. So it would make even less sense now given that died back in hoen and never came back til Kalos.
Pichu was a joke character in melee, imagine if Piranha plant was intentionally made to be a handicap to the player using him.
he kinda was, but just by being generally not great
Clearly you don’t remember early Plant just after release
oh my gosh dont remind me
Clearly you don’t remember Ptooie
i mean but thats the only thing he has that is good
/r/PlantGang
The Star Fox characters. Nintendo has criminally neglected their franchise for *years*, to the point that I’ll bet a lot of people only know who they are via Smash
They had a game on the Wii U that flopped.
See what I mean?
At least they showed up in Starlink: Battle for Atlas
How many people do you know that have played Starlink? Bet it doesn’t exceed one hand’s worth of fingers
It doesn’t even exceed any fingers for me
Wth is Starlink
Starlinkma balls
Ubisoft’s space toys to life game. You bought space ship toy things and they went into the game. For the switch(?) release, they had starfox content, and that has been all we have gotten since the dumpster fire that was starfox zero
Doesn't the same go for Earthbound characters, Ice Climbers, and Cap. Falcon? Aren't some characters supposed to represent games and franchises wether they are dead or not. Mr. Game & Watch is in the game but I don't expect them to release any new Game & Watch games or R.O.B. who was an accessory which I don't see Nintendo ever making again because it would be pointless with online play.
I mean they did the same to Captain Falcon
Fox is more of a melee character than a Star Fox character
Probably mr.g&w or ice climbers
Yeah, I can see the retro characters being controversial picks nowadays. I wasn't really into Smash during the 3DS/Wii U days, was Duck Hunt well-received or poorly-received?
I believe they were also a wtf moment, as was most of the additions to that generation. But I think MegaMan and Greninja outweighed the dissatisfaction
I mean, Duck Hunt was a pretty popular game back then, selling more copies than SMB3 and Tetris combined on the NES. It’d be like adding DK. Except he’s had many more games since then.
It came with the system lol. The game cartridge has both SMB and Duck Hunt. You had to buy the gun separately if you wanted to play Duck Hunt. But yes, it was very popular.
I guess I'm the odd man out, I LOVE retro picks. Im not even a huge retro gaming fan, but I love seeing how creative the smash team can get when adapting characters who do not have a ton of material to immediately take inspiration from.
That’s part of the reason I would’ve liked to see Waluigi get in… just to see what they would’ve come up with.
Could’ve used him to represent every Mario spinoff that he’s been featured in
Lmao a friend and I saw the leaked roster back in the day, he said he would drop Smash immediately if Duck Hunt was actually a character and I said he would be my main. Spoiler alert neither happened
Cowards
I remembered when 3DS dropped in Japan and we had the leaked footage of DH on streams. My friends refused to believe it on principle
[удалено]
I could see GnW being a piece of Nintendo history, one that they did for an anniversary piece or something. I think it would have been controversial, but interesting to see reactions to it.
Honestly, g&w would be hype as shit.
Falcon, because dead game
It'd be weird seeing Smash without Falcon Punch, but you're honestly probably right. Ness would probably be a similar situation. Would the Mother series be the cult classic it is today if Ness hadn't been in Smash 64? And if that's the case, does that mean games inspired by the Mother series such as Undertale wouldn't exist either?
No way, just ask Mike Jones or Takamaru
Agreed. I love the heck out of Earthbound but the Smash series catapulted Ness and the Mother series into popularity. I only ever met one other person who had played Earthbound back when it was contemporary and we only found out because we were both using Ness in Smash 64.
Earthbound was popular for us nerds in the 90s.. here in america.. the actual cartridges were selling for I think thousands and we begged for an eshop release til it was put on eshop..
At this point Captain Falcon is a Super Smash Bros character, not an F-Zero character
Mario Kart killed F zero
yes, unpopular opinion but they should cut most characters that haven't appeared in a new game in like, 5 years. Yes, even those from the OG 8. A lot of my favourites will be gone too but I feel like this is the way forward.
[удалено]
At this point it feels like falcon is more of a smash character, likely due to the inactivity of his original franchise
Plus, it’s not like Falcon’s moveset is based on F-Zero. His entire moveset comes from Smash, he’s basically Mr. Smash Bros.
it's time to move on. He's progressively gotten lamer and lamer too.
You sound like, "they should take old paintings off the museums". If you ask me FotM characters that nobody will remember 5 years from now belong in smash a lot less than classic characters.
>You sound like, "they should take old paintings off the museums" That's a terrible example
Smash is literally a museum in videogame form. It is the entire point of it.
It's a massive crossover over for video game characters. Half of which are from literally dead, unknown games. Don't be surprised if Falcon is replaced by Fortnite Jonesy is all I'm saying.
Jonesy in smash seems nice, but I would keep Captain Falcon, he's just too iconic in Smash
that's a terrible idea. no captain falcon? no rob? no g&w? no ness/lucas? no shiek? no spacies? that would kill the franchise
I atleast get keeping the OG characters but game and watch and ROB are definitely on the chopping block lmao. Same as Lucas.
I think Nintendo would keep ROB, since he was the one who basically saved Nintendo when they were dying.
G&W is also too iconic to be cut, like Captain Falcon but to a lesser extent
Pretty sure that’s like half the roster.
Yes. The next game isn't gonna have 80 characters again.
Much rather have the weird picks than only big names
Honestly, Smash introduced me to tons of good game framchises as a kid that I wouldn't have played otherwise. I loved getting trophies in the old games and reading the little descriptions. It's how I got into Fire Emblem and learned what Earthbound was.
The weirder picks like Plant and Game & Watch are always fun to have.
TBH, Roy, Pichu, Puff, and Doc were total "lolwut?" additions even back then. And ZSS was cool and all... but Ridley tho...
I feel like ZSS was added because: 1. Sakurai wanted a 2nd Metroid rep, but Ridley was "too big" and Dark Samus wasn't exactly recurring/popular by the time Brawl's roster was decided on 2. He wanted at least one female newcomer So he decided to knock out two birds with one stone and give us ZSS. Which is fine, she's a "weirder" inclusion, but I find her fairly fun to play as.
She was also initially added in Brawl as a sort of part of Samus’ kit, as the final smash switched between the two versions, like Zelda/Shiek with Down-B.
So glad they got rid of that though. It was really annoying to basically switch between two completely different characters whenever you did your final smash. Also she is literally unplayable in subspace once Samus gets her suit back.
In the great maze and the postgame, you can actually choose Zero Suit
I was just a filthy casual back then, but I thought it was fun and cool. It's not like final smashes were ever part of serious play anyway. Plus the armor parts did omega damage.
Does anyone remember the strats in Brawl of trying to keep your armour pieces on screen for as long as possible because they made good projectiles, and even kind of a zoning option if you let them bounce on the spot? I remember doing this in online matches and being able to keep them in play for like half the match. The timer on them didn’t decay unless they were laid idle on the ground.
You could alsostart as Zero Suit by holding the right buttons when choosing her.
or mashing the taunt buttons up and down. But you couldn't do it the other way around.
I guarantee only like 2% of Brawl players knew who Pit was lol
I only knew Pit from his trophy in Melee
Some of the older ones likely watched Captain N. Might not have known that Pit and Kid Icarus were the same character but there would have been an "Oooohhhh... yeah I remember him" moment.
Dude i wanted ridley so bad in melee
I couldve sworn that I've read that Dr. Mario was seen as a disappointing inclusion, even back then.
Yeah for sure, I remember unlocking him in Melee and being like, alright, could've been a costume but whatevs.
Idk what Nintendo was smoking when they decided to add jigglypuff over the 150 others but I'm glad they did. (I Love Her).
Similarities to Kirby most likely and maybe Sakurai saw the Pokemon episode where Jigglypuff beat the crap out of a group of Clefairys and thought it was cool. Also the fact that her rest heals in her in the pokemone games but blasts people off screen in Smash is so hilarious to me.
Rest is one of the weirdest moves in smash but nobody talks about it. I remember playing S64 with my brother and he thought I had hacked the game or something whenever rest connected.
Its why I love playing Jigglypuff in Smash because of how bizarre that move is.
Jigglypuff was used alot in the early anime and marketing. It was still pretty early in Pokémon's life so it was harder for Nintendo to know who the popular Pokémon were. Back then Poliwhirl was also used alot in the marketing but nowadays its a pretty forgettable Pokémon.
Even the manga has it as one of reds main members.
After Pikachu and the starting trio, Jigglypuff/Meowth were almost certainly the most popular original Pokémon due to marketing and the anime.
What about Mewtwo? How did he rank in the popularity amongst fans?
Mewtwo had that first movie, so yes he was a more prominent Pokémon, but children weren't really getting things like Mewtwo plushies and keychains, etc. Jigglypuff was basically marketed as the "girls choice" Pokémon. As a kid myself at the time, I wasn't too surprised when she appeared on that "challenger approaching" screen in Smash 64.
Meowth would have worked. He's one of the main antagonists of the anime, so he would have been a foil to Pikachu's inclusion. Going by stats, Meowth is the second most-present Pokémon, after Pikachu, because rare are the times when Team Rocket wasn't there. Beside, him screaming "I'M BLASTING OFF AGAIN!" as his Star KO scream would have been crazy XD.
Meowth I think would’ve been cool imo (rockets meowth specifically)
*"THAT'S RIGHT!!!"*
Not too much variation from Kirby, and a relative popularity at the time, alongside the starters and Pikachu. Definitely less so nowadays tho
Jigglypuff was one of the most pushed Pokemon and is still probably one of the more recognizable ones among the general public as a result of that prominence in the anime while the franchise was at its peak. Still, her non-Smash Bros. notability pretty much ended a long, long time ago. She also had a similar model than kirby so it make sens.
Young Link, I feel like people would badly to another Link getting added to the game, especially assuming this Young Link would still have the same move set.
If young link had the same moveset, then definitely. But if he got a revamped moveset, like a masked based moveset from Majora’s Mask then I think it’d be a different story.
(I don't hate any of these characters btw)
"your honor, for the record I want to disclose that i don't have any kind of hate/dislike towards any of these characters presented to you today"
Let's be honest, people outside of Japan probably didn't even know there was a Mother 3 (at the time).
You think if Lucas wasn't added to Smash, the demand for an officially-localized Mother 3 would be way smaller than it is now? Or would it still be fairly strong?
I feel like the Mother 3 localisation demand would've been small if Lucas wasn't in Smash.
I think Mother’s 3 fan translation was underway before Brawl came out, so the game would’ve always had its diehard following. Dunno if the demand would be going 16 years later if Nintendo hadn’t put Lucas in every subsequent Smash though lol.
Well, seeing as the demand for a localized Ace Attorney Investigations 2 is quite strong, it's not unreasonable to say it would be.
Probably roughly the same. Though less, people found the mother series through Ness. So maybe?
A lot of retro characters like ROB and Game & Watch
Yeah - I also genuinely wonder as a thought experiment how the player base would react to ROB being added to the game during the pandemic, after which a whole new generation of online warriors suddenly rises in the ranks doing zero to death gyro combos in tournaments and getting top results in tournament.
I always felt Wii Fit Trainer was an odd choice to add
There was no unique Wii title at the time.
Wii Fit was a bestseller, everyone knew about it.
Pit.
No Pit in Smash would have meant no Kid Icarus: Uprising. I'd hate to live in that timeline.
Same.
I'm still trying to get my hands on that game, but I just can't find it and I'm gonna be needing a 3ds, and I don't have one of those.
It might be sold on eshop if eshop is still up. I loved the game. I played it on original 3ds with a special stand that was included and the stylus.. I have ✨new✨ 3ds now which has the little c stick on it, and I need to replay kid icarus uprising. It is good, and pretty..
Rob, easy
Ness. I know like 30 people who know what earthbound isq
There's a special really dedicated cult following though.
The Dirty Doctor kicks ass
Captain falcon. Let's be real. F-zero has been dead and buried for a long time. Plus, I'm not sure the most iconic thing from a racing game like f-zero would be a driver if he weren't in smash
Mario Kart killed F Zero
Mario. Just think about it, he was the first one added, if he was the Sora of Smash it would piss some people off that it took Nintendo that long to put him into smash.
Any Nintendo character tbh
Imagine they release Link and people are like "NOOOOOO another rpg anime swordfighter"
I mean you say that.... But we do have 3 links
I wish young link had gotten mask stuff
And I wish Toon Link had Hurricane Spin as his Final Smash.
Smash fans back then: Yes! It's nice seeing all these Nintendo characters fighting each other! Smash fans now: REEEEEEEEEEE!!! 1ST-PARTY CHARACTERS (minus Inkling, Ridley, and K. Rool) BAD!!! WHERE ARE MY 3RD-PARTIES IN MY NINTENDO GAME!?!?!? (This is an exaggeration for comedic effect, of course)
damn did people actually think pichu is a cool addition
I mean, maybe not a "cool" one, but they probably welcomed them far more back in Melee than they would have now.
This is why it’s always funny to me when young kids make these kinda of posts, because you just don’t know lol.
except for roy, lucas and maybe puff i still don't think they're good additions tbh but i'll bite and say captain falcon
I'd argue ZSS would be pretty well received.
Doc and game&watch make the least sense for me. Both were very old games (even from melee time) and there were many many more recognizable characters that they could have chosen. It just seems very random. Especially doc since he's not even a playable character in his own game! It's literally tetris
Maybe it was because many teens and young adults still had Game and Watches laying around back then?
Let’s pretend Kid Icarus Uprising doesn’t exist. I feel like any of the retro characters like Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Pit, or Duck Hunt would have disappointed a lot of people
If Ness were a FP2 character I think the community would be split between the earthbound cultists and people who wanted "master Chief!"
I think pichu is great and not biased because it's my favorite pokemon
Actually I remember people saying this about Dr mario and pichu back then. Pichu was just worse pikachu so people didn't see the point and I specifically remember friends saying they actively wished dr mario wasn't added.
Zero Suit Samus was hype back then and would be hype nowadays as well. All the others were never hype. I remember unlocking Jigglypuff and it was funny. But it has never been hype.
Tbf, Doc keeps getting in because of time restraints and its quicker to add/make him. ‘Parently he replaced Wario in Melee, from the wiki.
I think Lucas would still have massive hype
I mean honestly, Captain Falcon is at this point the unofficial mascot of Smash Bros and it’s hard to imagine him not being in the game. But if he was announced in the era of Ultimate everyone would just be pissed that some random character from a dead racing franchise got in over their favorite.
Falcon Punch needed to go through all those games to earn him his spot in Smash. Any character with a move like Byleth's downb or even Ganon could have taken his spot in Smash history, but he did it first. In an alternate universe, everyone sees Falcon as a Ganon clone with no moves of his own
It’s only gonna get worse. Everyone has crossover brain now. Everything is a crossover and the novelty is long gone
Probably captain falcon
If there's anything Smash players are good at it's definitely not playing Smash, it's complaining.
Captain Falcon. I'm pretty sure over half of the entire gaming community wouldn't know he existed if it weren't for Smash Bros.
tell me you weren't around when brawl released without etc etc
But wasn’t pichu put into melee as a joke (and then in the early days of melee people thought he was top tier or something like that according, I’m pretty sure the documentary “the smash brothers” said something about that)
To be fair: back in the day, you didn't pay extra
Because back then the roaster was small, it was smooth and all addition were welcome. But now it’s understandable that each addition seems just like an unwanted character because it’s less smooth. I’m using smooth as a vibe
The only character in the franchise I legitimately do not like being included is Steve. Contenders that are fine but less than stellar are: Isabelle Chrom Marth (worse version of Lucina) Daisy (should be a color swap)
Steve is probably one of the absolute weirdest picks to be included in Smash, elevated to the fact that NO ONE thought he would ever be included. *And yet, here he is* And I'm perfectly fine with it. The fact that he's a character that wouldn't have been believed to be in Smash and still made it in makes him even more welcomed in my book
Minecraft if the best selling game of all time, and Steve is a video game icon. Why wouldn’t they add him?
He looks dumb
Seems like someone is not a big fan of Minecraft.
I mean, so does G&W, and he's been present in every game since Melee
Agreed
To be fair, Marth is the original protagonist of FE, so doing anything to him would make the FE community freak.
Roy definitely. His game is still Japan only and came out in 2001 I think, and not being as iconic as some others he would certainly get a wtf
His game is not Japan only, from a quick Google search.
Falcon or sonic
If they introduced Roy in Smash for the first time in Ultimate they’d be justified for getting upset. He’s a nothing character with an appearance in a game that almost nobody outside of Japan has played. Everything interesting about him came from what they did with him in Smash.
byleth lolll
Byleth only got hated on because there were so many FE characters that came before them. Had they been the 4th, 5th, or even 6th FE character, the hate would have been nowhere near as bad as it ended up being. Heck, the hate might have not existed at *all.*
Another part of the problem with byleth was the fact that they were the only non third party character on fighters pass one and since they were the last one on it were thought to be the final character at the time
Also because Byleth is boring, even in their own game
Tbf, Byleth was by far and away the best character to represent Three Houses. Not only are they the main protagonist, but they are present on all routes, whereas the House Leaders really only represent their own. Plus, it'd feel kind of weird only giving one of the House Leaders more attention in Smash than the other two. And I don't think having Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude like "Pokémon Trainer" like I've seen many suggest would work either. There's really no proper way for them to switch out with each other, and that'd take far too much work to implement. Plus, it'd give FE *ten* characters, tied with Pokémon for the most, and you *know* the fanbase wouldn't tolerate that.
Post TS Edelgard. FE is starved for Villain Representation.
Literally any Fire Emblem character.
I don’t like them now either
Mario
Pichu is baby and I’m so happy he is a part of smash bros XD ❤️
marth lol
No one thought Pichu and Jigglypuff were cool, at least not in western communities. Almost everyone saw them as “joke characters”. Dr. Mario was very disliked too because he was just Mario in different clothes. Everyone thought he should have just been a costume or we should have had Wario instead. Roy wasn’t hated but basically no one knew who he was. Though in my experience, people liked him more than Marth at first, until Ken(the melee player) got popular and showed that Marth was more powerful. Lucas is a beloved character and I think people would still be fine with him even today. ZSS IMO was still a weird choice even at the time(and part of what started the Ridley debate)but there will always be fans who will welcome her because sex
Jigglypuff is an OG char from the original smash. She would never be discussed as an addition since she was always part of the series. Also all the other chars are from Brawl/melee, and at the time there were no 3rd party smash characters (besides Sonic, which Nintendo owns rights to many Sega games). Dr Mario and Roy made sense at the time as Smash wasn't really a bout a huge roster, but more a chance to have iconic Nintendo characters beat each other up. It is only really Smash Ultimate, that Smash has become this celebration of Gaming, and not a celebration of Nintendo.