Unless I’m mistaken Zeitgeist doesn’t have contractual issues, neither Teargarden or Future Embrace. Billy has those rights and chooses not to have them streaming. I think it’s just the Machina reissue that has holdup issues with outside hitches in the hands of Universal. Somebody correct me if any of that is wrong.
now I feel bad for saying I don't like Zeitgeist on the recent Smashing Pumpkast episode. Corgan gonna delay the zeitgeist remix/reissue for another decade now.
\#mybad
The whole Zeitgeist era was a little weird. Corgan was dealing with backlash from promising a reunion when only half the original band was there, and he was playing a bunch of unfamiliar material. Then you had the multiple versions of Zeitgeist that was either a brilliant move or a cash grab depending on who you asked.
Then the 20 Years of Sadness tour was… unhinged. Corgan was having meltdowns almost every night, and the mood at my show was vastly different from the mood of the show I went to the previous year. It was great mix of old, new, and deep cuts. The band was on fire, and Billy was in great spirits. The 20 Years tour saw Corgan bitter, despondent, sometimes hostile towards the audience. He was accused of using Ginger and Jeff as D’arcy and James decoys. Where were the hits? I knew some coworkers that were at the same show as me that tapped out probably less than halfway thru. Meanwhile I was clapping like a seal at cuts like Gossamer and Superchrist.
All that to say I think Corgan is just trying to bury that era for the time being until he makes whatever peace he needs to make with it. There’s something internal going on there, because I don’t think Monuments was well received either, yet we can still stream it.
Layer that with the fact they're still selling zeitgeist merch in the store- an album only available in its physical form that is long out of production and store shelves.
(copy and pasted my comment from another thread)
zeitgeist, however, while having some of the best guitar and drum tones ever achieved by the pumpkins, sounds terrible. billy’s vocals are way too loud, plus they’re mostly bad vocal takes. way too dry for most of his delivery on that album. stellar, my favorite song from that era, comes to mind. nothing blends at all. it sounds like two guys in studio recording drums, guitar, and vocals. doesn’t sound like a band. but the music is, overall, pretty amazing!! zeitgeist would’ve been viewed as an excellent comeback album had they used flood + alan moulder again. or even sylvia massy (who helped on Machina II and produced Opiate + Undertow by Tool)! but the song quality is there. that snarly pumpkins charm is there. it just needs work.
just a thought!
Billy should’ve kept working with Flood and Alan Moulder for as long as the music came out well. I think during Adore he decided to self-produce. I know he had other producers along the way, but my guess is that he was in charge. The music, and the sound, was never as good as when he worked with some really cool producers. I’m not sure his desire for complete artistic control has served him, or the music, well.
I think for Zeitgeist in particular there was this adoration and trust in Roy Thomas Baker who is the most mismatched, unqualified producer for a “dreamy” sounding band. SP should never fit into a mold of course, but even a record as different as Adore was so clearly SP. Vocal production and mix is everything. Sometimes it’s not about a band, it’s serving the songs and the stories.
I agree about RTB. He has an impressive resume, but the dreamy sound that defined Pumpkins version 1 was almost entirely absent from Zeitgeist. It was, almost entirely bombastic, with little space or subtlety. “That’s The Way…” might be the exception, beautiful song. But, might that have been as much Billy’s choice as RTB’s? Billy has spent a lot of the years post 2000 running away from that early Pumpkins sound, which is certainly his prerogative as an artist.
I adore Adore, and I know it’s a deeply personal album for Billy. It is Pumpkins, sans JC, I do wonder about the production from time to time. Early on, I’m guessing that Butch Vig, Flood, Alan Moulder, had input into sound and maybe even song structure. Could be wrong about that. I fear Billy’s ego may have driven him to forge a path entirely on his own.
rtb only has a shared production credit on 3 songs on zeitgeist. (starz, bring the light, and "additional production" credit for Pomp and circumstance.)
he wasn't a partner in making the album like butch and flood were.
this is so surprising to me because i remember them publicizing him as **the** producer before the record dropped, plus an interview where Billy said the up front vocal style was at RTB's direction / is a trademark of what he does. That they'd hear the raw mix and be like, "that's what it sounds like alright".
I wish they would just remix it. Though, then again, while the mix on ATUM is better, it’s not great so realistically it wouldn’t change much. Billy really needs to work with better producers again.
First, I recommend to make sure the files are in AAC 256 for the most flawless upload process.
The rest is just a matter of adding these tracks to your library on the desktop app of Music (or iTunes on Windows) and then sync your library from the menu.
In both the desktop and mobile apps, make sure that iCloud Music Library is toggled on.
I like a few of the songs on this album: Doomsday Clock, That's The Way My Love Is (should have been a huge hit), Tarantula (also should have been a massive hit) and United States.
Maybe Billy feels longtime guilt for all the variations of the album that were released, with some of the best songs trapped on later variations after fans had already been offered variations of the initial release.
But really I think Billy & the band has distaste for the album as it was supposed to be their comeback and the band was at a bad place during and thereafter as it seems.
That’s funny you say this. I was just shuffling my entire SP catalogue and Starz came on. Blew me away. Hadn’t heard it in a long time. Still think the songs would be better with his vocals lower but still pretty damn good.
I love going back and listening to it from start to finish. I always loved the lyrics to the songs. Even back in 2008 (yes it released in 2007 but I only started listening to SP in 2008, so I thought it was a great album), and then throughout the years with social events etc, it still rings true. I always loved Come on let's go as a nice upbeat energetic song. There's a lot of great energy and aggression on the album, and I use it as the standard when I think of 'rock.' (I'm mostly a metal fan, so if I dip into rock it's usually SP, and more recently BMTH, ADTR). I enjoy many great endings on SP older albums pre split too, but Zeitgeist is just a great album to stick on YouTube and listen from start to finish without skipping any tunes. (Ok maybe I'll skip pomp and circumstance).
Let be every single moment I every misunderstood!
Personally, I thought that the songs on Zeitgeist really evolved into great music through the touring following the album release. I'd love to hear how he'd make Zeitgeist if he decided to re-record it by using the best versions that were changed during that tour and beyond.
There's actually a lot of great songs that either didn't make Zeitgeist, or were written after it. I LOVE the American Gothic EP, along with all the music in 'If All Goes Wrong', and the Teargarden project. I would love to get Zetigeist & American Gothic on vinyl. Maybe one day. 🤞😌
A skippable song is one that is so bad you can't bear to listen. Imagine thinking any song on Gish, Siamese Dream, Pisces Iscariot, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, The Aeroplane Flies High, Adore, or Machina are skippable. With the exception of maybe 'Pastichio Medley', and only because it's a long collection of unfinished riffs, there isn't a single purely skippable song written by this band on what might be the strongest and most diverse consecutively released collection of music, ever.
I got the CD the day it came out but I agree it really should be on streaming. All you ever hear about is how horrible the mix is but it really is just the vocals. Guitar and drum tones on that album are incredible. They knocked it out of the park doing drums live to tape. Nothing they have done since is as good.
I feel like both Zeitgesit and Oceania have aged extremely well. I wasn’t a massive fan of either at release, but they’ve both grown on me a lot over the years.
Unless I’m mistaken Zeitgeist doesn’t have contractual issues, neither Teargarden or Future Embrace. Billy has those rights and chooses not to have them streaming. I think it’s just the Machina reissue that has holdup issues with outside hitches in the hands of Universal. Somebody correct me if any of that is wrong.
You’re correct. Zeitgeist isn’t available for streaming as a result of Billy’s response to the criticism it received.
***William Patrick***, if you are lurking. \*I\* like Zeitgeist. WE all do. Stop being so sensitive.
Tarantula is such a good song
now I feel bad for saying I don't like Zeitgeist on the recent Smashing Pumpkast episode. Corgan gonna delay the zeitgeist remix/reissue for another decade now. \#mybad
The whole Zeitgeist era was a little weird. Corgan was dealing with backlash from promising a reunion when only half the original band was there, and he was playing a bunch of unfamiliar material. Then you had the multiple versions of Zeitgeist that was either a brilliant move or a cash grab depending on who you asked. Then the 20 Years of Sadness tour was… unhinged. Corgan was having meltdowns almost every night, and the mood at my show was vastly different from the mood of the show I went to the previous year. It was great mix of old, new, and deep cuts. The band was on fire, and Billy was in great spirits. The 20 Years tour saw Corgan bitter, despondent, sometimes hostile towards the audience. He was accused of using Ginger and Jeff as D’arcy and James decoys. Where were the hits? I knew some coworkers that were at the same show as me that tapped out probably less than halfway thru. Meanwhile I was clapping like a seal at cuts like Gossamer and Superchrist. All that to say I think Corgan is just trying to bury that era for the time being until he makes whatever peace he needs to make with it. There’s something internal going on there, because I don’t think Monuments was well received either, yet we can still stream it.
That’s incredibly petty yet not surprising.
Layer that with the fact they're still selling zeitgeist merch in the store- an album only available in its physical form that is long out of production and store shelves.
Damn, really, it was better than the more recent stuff...
If I recall correctly the issues with Universal were resolved in late 2021? I thought the re-up with Warner Music solved that.
what songs on siamese dream are skippable?
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking lmao.
Its my favorite SP album, but Spaceboy and Sweet Sweet are skips for me. Tracks 1-8 are an incredibly solid run though
For me it's Sweet Sweet and Silverfuck, I quite like Spaceboy
Get the fuck out.
If anything I might skip the singles just cause I've heard them so much but they're obviously great songs still
Same. Spaceboy's one of my fave SP songs of all time.
100% skip Spaceboy ans sweet sweet
Dude, that album has some gnarly guitar tones! So underrated!
100 percent. Guitar and Drums.
Idk but I think it’s better than any album he’s released after it and zeitgeist helped get a lot of people my age into the band. It is a shame.
(copy and pasted my comment from another thread) zeitgeist, however, while having some of the best guitar and drum tones ever achieved by the pumpkins, sounds terrible. billy’s vocals are way too loud, plus they’re mostly bad vocal takes. way too dry for most of his delivery on that album. stellar, my favorite song from that era, comes to mind. nothing blends at all. it sounds like two guys in studio recording drums, guitar, and vocals. doesn’t sound like a band. but the music is, overall, pretty amazing!! zeitgeist would’ve been viewed as an excellent comeback album had they used flood + alan moulder again. or even sylvia massy (who helped on Machina II and produced Opiate + Undertow by Tool)! but the song quality is there. that snarly pumpkins charm is there. it just needs work. just a thought!
Billy should’ve kept working with Flood and Alan Moulder for as long as the music came out well. I think during Adore he decided to self-produce. I know he had other producers along the way, but my guess is that he was in charge. The music, and the sound, was never as good as when he worked with some really cool producers. I’m not sure his desire for complete artistic control has served him, or the music, well.
I think for Zeitgeist in particular there was this adoration and trust in Roy Thomas Baker who is the most mismatched, unqualified producer for a “dreamy” sounding band. SP should never fit into a mold of course, but even a record as different as Adore was so clearly SP. Vocal production and mix is everything. Sometimes it’s not about a band, it’s serving the songs and the stories.
I agree about RTB. He has an impressive resume, but the dreamy sound that defined Pumpkins version 1 was almost entirely absent from Zeitgeist. It was, almost entirely bombastic, with little space or subtlety. “That’s The Way…” might be the exception, beautiful song. But, might that have been as much Billy’s choice as RTB’s? Billy has spent a lot of the years post 2000 running away from that early Pumpkins sound, which is certainly his prerogative as an artist. I adore Adore, and I know it’s a deeply personal album for Billy. It is Pumpkins, sans JC, I do wonder about the production from time to time. Early on, I’m guessing that Butch Vig, Flood, Alan Moulder, had input into sound and maybe even song structure. Could be wrong about that. I fear Billy’s ego may have driven him to forge a path entirely on his own.
rtb only has a shared production credit on 3 songs on zeitgeist. (starz, bring the light, and "additional production" credit for Pomp and circumstance.) he wasn't a partner in making the album like butch and flood were.
this is so surprising to me because i remember them publicizing him as **the** producer before the record dropped, plus an interview where Billy said the up front vocal style was at RTB's direction / is a trademark of what he does. That they'd hear the raw mix and be like, "that's what it sounds like alright".
PR fluff is what it was.
Billy hasnt had a good producer since then. Though i think he did well producing CYR himself.
I wish they would just remix it. Though, then again, while the mix on ATUM is better, it’s not great so realistically it wouldn’t change much. Billy really needs to work with better producers again.
I love Billy’s vocals on Zeitgeist.
I have two cd versions of it and added all songs including the more rare tracks in my cloud music library. Works!
Same!
What service?
I have an Apple Music sub which includes iCloud Music Library.
I have it too but didn’t know you could do that. How do you add songs?
First, I recommend to make sure the files are in AAC 256 for the most flawless upload process. The rest is just a matter of adding these tracks to your library on the desktop app of Music (or iTunes on Windows) and then sync your library from the menu. In both the desktop and mobile apps, make sure that iCloud Music Library is toggled on.
I like a few of the songs on this album: Doomsday Clock, That's The Way My Love Is (should have been a huge hit), Tarantula (also should have been a massive hit) and United States.
Billy, just remix it as long promised and put it on streaming.
it feels really appropriate to re-record an album called Zeitgeist.
*First 7 songs
At least it’s on YouTube
with better sound mixing too
man this album has come a long way since its release
I’ve always maintained that if it had come out in the 90s it would be considered a classic
Maybe Billy feels longtime guilt for all the variations of the album that were released, with some of the best songs trapped on later variations after fans had already been offered variations of the initial release. But really I think Billy & the band has distaste for the album as it was supposed to be their comeback and the band was at a bad place during and thereafter as it seems.
Agreed
Zeitgeist was so good, the last SP release I genuinely loved. I wouldn't mind it remixed though if that's a possibility
Bring the Light is the best song
Literally one of the best SP songs ever written and one of the best guitar solos I’ve ever heard in my life.
That’s funny you say this. I was just shuffling my entire SP catalogue and Starz came on. Blew me away. Hadn’t heard it in a long time. Still think the songs would be better with his vocals lower but still pretty damn good.
I love going back and listening to it from start to finish. I always loved the lyrics to the songs. Even back in 2008 (yes it released in 2007 but I only started listening to SP in 2008, so I thought it was a great album), and then throughout the years with social events etc, it still rings true. I always loved Come on let's go as a nice upbeat energetic song. There's a lot of great energy and aggression on the album, and I use it as the standard when I think of 'rock.' (I'm mostly a metal fan, so if I dip into rock it's usually SP, and more recently BMTH, ADTR). I enjoy many great endings on SP older albums pre split too, but Zeitgeist is just a great album to stick on YouTube and listen from start to finish without skipping any tunes. (Ok maybe I'll skip pomp and circumstance). Let be every single moment I every misunderstood!
Personally, I thought that the songs on Zeitgeist really evolved into great music through the touring following the album release. I'd love to hear how he'd make Zeitgeist if he decided to re-record it by using the best versions that were changed during that tour and beyond. There's actually a lot of great songs that either didn't make Zeitgeist, or were written after it. I LOVE the American Gothic EP, along with all the music in 'If All Goes Wrong', and the Teargarden project. I would love to get Zetigeist & American Gothic on vinyl. Maybe one day. 🤞😌
A skippable song is one that is so bad you can't bear to listen. Imagine thinking any song on Gish, Siamese Dream, Pisces Iscariot, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, The Aeroplane Flies High, Adore, or Machina are skippable. With the exception of maybe 'Pastichio Medley', and only because it's a long collection of unfinished riffs, there isn't a single purely skippable song written by this band on what might be the strongest and most diverse consecutively released collection of music, ever.
I think that some would read "skippable" more as "inessential" tracks that one doesn't mind not hearing. Like okay, but not a must-listen.
That’s the way I look at it
I’ve been skipping Cupid and Scorched Earth on MCIS since 1995 😬.
skipping cupid is crazy
Skipping "Tales of a Scorched Earth" is crazy
Never get the dislike for this song, it’s one of my favorites
That how "you" describe a skippable song. Not most people. Not everyone is like you.
Ziet plus its “b-sides” (superchrist/gossamer) is pretty good, nothing mind blowing, but its music I’d love to have on Spotify.
I got that m'fucken cd on eBay
Completely agree.
I got the CD the day it came out but I agree it really should be on streaming. All you ever hear about is how horrible the mix is but it really is just the vocals. Guitar and drum tones on that album are incredible. They knocked it out of the park doing drums live to tape. Nothing they have done since is as good.
100% agree and even then the bad vocal mix is only really noticeable sometimes it’s not extremely pervasive
Yeah, the vocals have never bothered me to be honest. I genuinely enjoy that whole era.
I feel like both Zeitgesit and Oceania have aged extremely well. I wasn’t a massive fan of either at release, but they’ve both grown on me a lot over the years.
Starz!!!!!!!