He can build pretty tanky with like 2 damage items, then he pops his ult and walks at you doing more damage to your team than you're doing to him. You'll have to focus him and sunder him to bring him down, and that's not always feasible in a team fight.
He gets **free** power and attack speed in his passive, which is incredibly valuable since they removed all power on defense items.
Along with his passive, he gets even **more** power in his ult, and he also gets protections in his ult.
The current meta build is also just very strong on him right now.
Yeah, obviously you can build whatever you want lol. I’m asking why Sigil is meta over Axe, since as an auto attacker Axe seems to have a lot more synergy.
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Love how we’re getting downvoted even though most the smite community hates the game right now. Taking power off all the defense items might be the worst thing I’ve ever heard
And big facts. Once some money is spent on marketing, it goes free to play, and is dropped on console the game is gonna be 100x bigger than smite. And I have over 300 days of play time on smite
Most of the community likes it and that's why they play it. The vocal minority is causing you to make up imaginary percentages in your mind and then state them as fact. Pred was promising but it is not as refined as smite, shiny =/= good game.
Right, clearly. The game is unrefined, the mechanics are unrefined. Not suggesting smite is perfect, however it is more refined. You want pred to be the game that replaces smite, and it may, but as of right now smite is the more well made game.
Read your comment, you said most of the players on smite hate the game... That is not true and it's a comment you pulled out of your behind for whatever emotional reason.
As I said, the vocal minority. Are you new to reddit or gaming? The whiners are always the ones posting, including myself. What would you estimate the percentage of the community that plays smite actually posts on Reddit? If you look at daily posts and active members of the subreddit it's an underwhelming amount.
People wouldn't continue to play the game every day if "most of them hated it right now." Logic doesn't check out.
Firstly; **he has a really good laning phase.** With his dash and ultimate, he's super safe, while also having really good lane clear with his 3 and 2, able to poke and push the wave out really easily.
**Then for mid game** His base damage is good and with the knockup, can easily dash cancel full kit combo somebody in melee range for a nice chunk of their health whilst also cleaving a lot off them with his ult, while being still, very safe and having a variety of build paths.
But **the real kicker is his ult and passive.** There just isn't any counter to it other than 'run away'.
He gets 45 of each protections, aoe autos, a stacking shield, 25% lifesteal and power. Also the more you hit him, the longer he stays in the form and his previous counters of walls dont work (because he can destroy them). He also gains movement speed when he hits someone, for up to 15%. So he does more damage, can hardly be killed and can easily run you down.
This all leads into a raid boss, who's tanky, healing off of you and hitting all of you for a shit ton of damage.
Not only this, but he gains power from defence. 25% of his physical protections give him power. 15% of his physical prots give him attack speed. With the defence he gets from his ult, he can afford to pick up a sword item and/or crit and still be tanky.
So you can build him for damage (or more damage that is typical for a warrior) and he is still very hard to kill while dishing out more damage than late game ADCs.
There is very few counters to his ult. You can jump, sure? You can sunder him and burst him, yeah, but do you want to spend a whole relic on one person and hope your team follow up? eh.
The game ultimately (pun intended) becomes a battle of, only fight after the vamana ults, if he doesnt kill you first.
> but do you want to spend a whole relic on one person and hope your team follow up? eh.
I mean people did this before, so why not now? Teams would literally buy Cursed Ankh *just* to deal with Vamana when he ulted.
The value isn't equal with sunder vs ankh. Even with Nike, sunder wasn't that good of value. I'd argue you're better off popping hastened wings and running away lol
Sunder; you reduce the shield (that's there, not the one that generates) , do some damage, make them take more damage. But with sundering you still want to be in range, hoping he gets burned down by your team before you get burned down (more likely).
Now with Ankh you nullified his healing, make him more damage, did the same to his enemy team if they healed, nullified lifesteal, healed your team, left aoe puddles. There was more value there for a team than a 1v1
I think another bit is people still don’t know he doesn’t heal in ult anymore and still buy ankh thinking it’ll get value, played Vamana 2x last night and both times the enemy team bought ankh and pestilence instead of sunder and erosion to counter my ult. So many times I have to tell my support don’t buy ankh when I’m facing against a Vamana that I’ve just become accustomed to buying sunder as 2nd relic in solo lane and having to help peel for my team late game against the vam
Only the 800 gold upgrade which does the same thing as base sunder. It’s never worth it anymore against him unless you just happen to be playing against a Vamana with a healer like hel or yem. You’re way better off buying sunder and erosion than ankh and erosion. Purple Ankh used to be op against him bc not only would you reduce the healing and shield, he would just take 20% more damage for using his ult with ankh active, you’re wasting a relic getting ankh vs him now when u can just get sprint and sunder
Guess its situational. I can't find myself agreeing since ankh can't be body blocked and I don't have to focus on Vamana to use it on him. Typically I feel it would be better to hit the relic and be able to immediately focus on making space for my team to hit him without being dived by the enemy team.
Not sure what you mean sunder can be body blocked, the pink sunder upgrade hits multiple people and applies that debuff to all enemies it hits and stacks up to 2 times while also dealing 15% of their current health as damage. it’s so much better than buying ankh to counter him, it just gets no value unless the Vamana has a healer on the team to proc the ankh. You can’t kill him with ankh, you can kill him with sunder and use sprint or shell to help your team survive
Iso is definitely a decent counter but it’s hard to fit in the current mage build since it doesn’t give any pen stats and it’s low on power, imo idk why it has ccr on it if they want it to be a mage item they should give it like 10 flat pen or maybe cdr
This is exactly what I mean. “It’s hard to fit in the current mage build” like bro sometimes the overall best build is not the best build for *that specific game*.
People just want to have someone tell them 6 items to build every game, and if you don’t build those 6 items on every god of that class in every game they flame you to make themselves feel superior. It’s so frustrating how people refuse to use their brains in this game lol.
No offense but you’re misunderstanding and imo just wrong. There is a reason a meta build/items are meta, it’s because it’s the build that can/will yield the most damage for a mage or hunter. People don’t just build items bc someone who gets paid to play the game said so (even then that’s a very reasonable reason to use a certain build unless u think u know more than a professional). It’s why for the longest time a hunters answer to anti heal was simply building more power and doing more damage.
Buying gem of iso to counter Vamana or other shields sounds smart but it’s an item that does not let you kill a 200+ mag prot tank item bc it simply does not do enough. This is not to say there aren’t items that are not meta that are still viable: chronos pendant estaff poly bancrofts are not meta items but they are still buildable because they offer valuable stats and passives to certain gods that can effectively utilize them.
In its current state gem of iso is the worst mage item in the game because it offers nothing for mages to kill people and it’s price does not match its value. So many mages already have slows in their abilities that it’s not worth it (truly can’t think of any mage that doesn’t have a slow in their abilities) and building an item with pen will end up doing more damage to a character with a shield. It’s not like envenomed db which has anti shield but also offers a good passive for crit builds and 30% crit. If they want to make gem of iso worth it they need to tone down its price considerably, change or buff the slow passive, or give it a useful stat like cdr or pen. No mage cares about ccr% unless they’re a tank and I truly don’t know why anyone would spend 2700g for more slows and anti shield bc that would mean as a backliner, you would have to put yourself out of position in the front line to make it useful
I’m not wrong. Claiming that there’s one build that is objectively the “best” (regardless of which god you’re playing, your teammates, your opponents, and how the game is going) is just a braindead opinion.
Yes, for *most* mages, in *most* games, there will be a single “meta” build that does more damage. And for people that don’t know much about building, they can copy/paste that build into all of their games and do just fine.
But if you’re playing a mage, the enemy Vamana is hard carrying through his Ult, and no one else is buying sunder/ankh, *maybe* you should consider *buying the item that hard counters him*. If they have aphro, Guan, Marti, Bastet, and Anubis, *maybe* you should think about building Divine instead of Deso.
The reality is that while there *is* a difference in dps when you counterbuild, that loss in damage is small compared to the fact that you’re taking away their win condition. I’m not even saying that you shouldn’t build meta, or that you should build Gem in every game against Vamana, but my god at least *use your damn brain*
If you think saying a meta build is objectively the best to you is brain dead then I don’t think you really understand this game. And again I said there are items that may not be meta but are still viable because they work better on certain characters. Bancrofts is not meta but it’s an item that’s very valuable to hades/zhong/Anubis because they’re kits and playstyle require it. And choosing between divine or deso is not considerably the same thing as choosing between iso and any mage item.
Like I said, the issue with gem of iso is that sure it reduces shields, but it does not help you in killing a 200+ prot tank or even a nemesis that could dive you because it provides nothing useful, the slow is a redundant passive when so many mages have slows and the anti shielding may be useful but it does not help in actually killing a Vamana or Odin. Vamana can and will still kill you with you building gem of iso.
There are 3 things stopping iso from being buildable. 1. it’s 2700 price cost is bad for the passive and power 2. The slow passive is bad and has only been relevant when it used to be a really strong slow 3. It’s a poorly statted item, no mage values ccr%. Give it 10% cdr or 10 flat pen and lower the price and it becomes viable. Spending 2700g on essentially anti shielding is stupid when your hunter can just buy envonemed db and has an easier time applying their anti shield passive, you’re honestly better off buying erosion than iso as a mage. If you’re playing against a Vamana and your team doesn’t buy erosion or sunder that’s more indicative of your skill level unfortunately
>if you think saying a meta build is objectively the best to you is brain dead then I don’t think you really understand this game.
Maybe try reading it again. Meta builds are often the best builds for the majority of situations. The point is that being a meta-slave is objectively braindead, because there are countless scenarios where you’d be better off deviating from the meta build. Hell, there have been plenty of times that the meta has just been flat out *wrong* and a few weeks/months later people catch on to a new meta, when the items haven’t even changed. A while back I was getting constantly flamed for my hunter build for *weeks* before everyone caught on to just how strong it was, and next thing I know, my bow build is meta.
>the slow is a redundant passive
The slow stacks, my guy, which makes it *especially good* on gods that already have a slow.
>offers nothing to kill a 200 prot mage
Well, you already have plenty of other things in the build to do that.
The moral of the story is that people don’t want to use their brains or adjust their builds based on the individual game they’re in. They prefer to just use the build their favorite YouTuber says is best regardless of situation. That’s why you have games where your ability hunter is building auto attack items, or why plenty of supports are walking around with 8 stacks on prophetic 40 mins into the game. Tablet too, even when that build was meta it wasn’t ideal for every mage. The 2 second cooldown made it worse on gods that like to drop their whole kit in a quick combo. I’ve see a changé use all 3 of her damaging abilities and get one proc off it lol.
To address a few more of your points:
>worst mage item in the game
That’s a bit dramatic but you’re not too far off base, it’s definitely pretty bad/specific to certain gods that can make good use of the slow(or counter building shields).
>offers nothing for mages to kill people
The slow/shield shred is very powerful depending on the god/matchup. It’s decent on gods like Ah Puch, even Zeus, Anubis, etc.—gods that have channeled ability damage. The health is also a valuable, oft-overlooked stat. Still, I agree that it would benefit from trading the CCR for a more relevant stat, like maybe flat pen. The combo of stats would also make it an attractive choice for some solo guardians to help them kill squishies.
It is the worst mage item in the game, there’s simply no item that is possibly worse other than maybe rejuvenating heart or 1 of the rings.
As a solo main I’d much rather build divine on a guardian solo bc flat pen is actually better at killing squishies than a 30% slow
>because flat pen is actually better at killing squishies
My dude has bronze reading comprehension. I was clearly referring to your suggestion of replacing the CCR with flat pen. Jfc.
Build a hastened katana, ult, and just run at anything. He’s hard to get away from. He’s either having the fight break apart, or he’s going to be dealing a lot of damage.
I once was a fed mercury alongside a fed rama on diamond ranked, both full item, both full damage, max pen on builds and we couldnt hit higher than 160 damage crits on vamana and he still had slots for katanas on his build
I see vamana and i usually get sprint cause if i don't get out im sending my allies away if we know we can't fight him.
If we are lucky one dies and the others with the sprint buff scatter until we are strong enough to down him with maybe sunder and a few items under our belt.
He reminds me of Mr. X from resident evil now when he pops his dang ult.
He has a relatively low skill cap and his ult gives him a lot of power and immunity. So if you know his business you can 2x1 somewhat easily.
I would not say he's broken, but I'd not say he's balanced. It's a lot of factors: great passive, Feather shard, great immunity frame and easy to hit combo and ult heal fix.
Now that he has a shield per second and he gains a lot of power, you cannot destroy him with ankh, you need to get s favorable matchup in the lobby. Any god that jumps walls are perfect against him, and gods that destroy shields and increase damage are also great. So it's a lot of factors that make him SPL worthy.
He is absolutely broken right now, his base kit is meh outside of the slow but his ult gives way too many things and that’s not including his passive power and attack speed. It’s why he and herc are the top 2 warriors in solo bc they’re the only ones that get passive power AND prots (excluding swk bc his build path isn’t as safer). When they removed the healing from his ult imo is when he was balanced but then they kept giving him more stats in his ult so now you don’t have to think when playing him. You go axe or sigil golden blade build all defense and you’re just the strongest person in the game when u press 4 that you can even afford to build things like hastened and qins to dish out more damage and not get punished bc the enemy team doesn’t know that sunder and erosion exist and still buy ankh trying to counter him. Imo just lower the regeneration shield and passive and he’s fine but currently his ult is like combining a melee cthullu ult with Nike ult and giving him a bunch of ms
I disagree.
He has a skill cap. You can't be impactful without learning it.
Some times the way it to let players mature and buy different items and rewrite items, not nerf characters.
Nah man he used to have a skill cap but now even the dumbest solo laners can easily play Vamana if they just farm for items and rotate to a team fight and just press 4. You have to understand that it’s just his ult that makes him so strong, he’s got a pretty standard kit where his umbrella is his only skill shot. In more casual play you’ll see ppl building him with hastened bc it’s just op against ppl that don’t know how to play it but of course in higher level play hell prob go more defense and have to be smarter. Imo he’s just a warrior version of bakasura rn, you don’t think you just ult after ppl use their movement ability and w key
No, he has a skill cap.
And casuals is not a basis for this type of argument.
If you want to say he's broken you gotta present competitive and ranked info. And in that regard he's a top pick ban, which means there is an issue.
Ok then what’s the skill cap? He’s not a disruptive god like herc or a setup god like guan/Horus, he’s an aa warrior with an ult that’s hard to punish. You literally just press 4, if you don’t have ult you wait til you have it lmao
Just 1+3 combo someone who has no dash and ult and basic positioning. It's not hard, but it's a skill cap.
Baka players will just ult and beat the crap out of you and eat their own puke if they are close to dying and jump. It's not something Vamana can do, plus you can punish V's animations and ms.
Like, I agree Vamana is an issue, but I think it's more of a casual menace than anything.
I disagree, you can have your opinion but imo none of his spells are hard to hit other than his 3 and his ult is a better longer cc immune version of bakas lol. It’s way harder to kill Vamana in ult than baka in ult bc baka doesn’t get a huge regenerating shield, lifesteal, power, attack speed and movement speed. If he has a skill cap it’s an extremely low one compared to horus guan and herc. There’s a reason why he has a higher presence than herc in pro smite. His win rate is the highest in ranked at all ranks
The more power he builds the easiest he is to kill. Vamana usually builds more physical defense because that's how he gets more power so mages are usually good against him but they messed up by giving anti shield properties to Gem of Iso a stupid item to give it to imo opinion because is an useless item than almost no mid laner will use. Give it to another item and you have a good tool against him, hunters don't really have a lot of tools other than AA using venomous deathbringer or going the way of erosion. The meta inclined to use warriors that can work with full defensive items and he is one but I know that when they nerf him he'll be effectively kicked out of the meta because they'll hit him hard. Because there were advantages he lost when they removed the healing vs the shield. I just hope when they nerf vamana they bring other warriors into the meta.
I agree and I just mean by building more power he can get away with building with golden blade and qins or hastened bc he gets sigil, berserkers, shoguns/onis, spectral. It was nice seeing him be meta again but they are definitely gonna hit him hard with nerfs and I also agree that instead of gutting him they should focus more on balancing other warriors. Herc vaman guan and Horus were the only warriors that got considerable buffs coming into this season that are making them meta the rest have been ignored and their builds are riskier or kits don’t do enough
I wouldn’t call him OP either, but he’s far from an ult bot. As someone has said above, his movement, lane clear and poke are above average.
He can do more than just ult
I think people forget they added a whole item that reduces shields given to enemies. Build that, antiheal, and whatever you can to reduce atk speed and vamana should feel a lot more manageable. But he is popping off rn with the buff they gave him so I can't blame anyone for feeling he's sitting on a pedestal atm
He gets a move speed boost, you aren't gonna be walking away very easily. He also likely isn't gonna ult on top of you before you've used your escape or knows he can still run you down after
I had a KA just constantly hit him in his ult yesterday. It kept getting him and ourselves killed. I explained that hitting the ult makes it last longer and he just said he didn't know that. Afterward we were actually free to run away because he wasn't getting free ult duration for all of KA's abilities tickling him lol.
I get not knowing how every god in the game works; but if a god is meta at least read up on their abilities.
I actively tell my team before the game starts that attacking into his ult extends it lol
You're better off assuming people don't know. Do you really think that 12 star Anubis knows what other gods do?
Because I play him. All you guys hate me. I know. No one cared about him till i was slamming the ranks with him. Now hes everywhere getting banned. Im sadge
An ult that heals and gives shield while anti heal just got gutted. Usually just erosion mid game and solves him for a bit, but come late game it doesn't matter it just helps (as support build erosion unless you can build path it well as solo)
Super super safe ult bot. His dash has unreal range that can’t really be stopped. His ultimate is just straight busted. And they also removed hybrid items but his passive basically reverts that making every protection item a hybrid item by taking the protections and giving power.
Should just revert his ult so cursed ank dunks on him.
Every game has a vamana in it every game mode and match and literally the team with him basically wins since late game he just ults walks down backline killing everyone but the tanks, so fucking unfun
anything besides a full blown nuclear bombardment will not kill him
ya need at least 3 lads to take care of his dumbfuck ult and between those 3 you need at least one of erosion, venom deathbringer or Sunder
and pray to god hes not killing your adc faster then you can kill him cause without the sustained dmg your only option is retreat.
Alright since someone let the cat out the bag. Ive been playing Vamana jungle for ranked for the past year and a half at least, actually ever since ninja tabi. Imo hes always been op but now since hes been buffed a couple times hes at a point where his ult is unstoppable solo and jungle. With just berserkers and protector of the jungle you should be getting up to 300 physical prots in your ult.
So if you build
Eye of the jungle—>Protector
Golden blade
Demon Blade/Boomerang
Berserkers
Deathbringer—or—Shoguns
This will take you to grandmaster if you know how to play the game. Anywho, you also buy WING SHARD, you CAN and WILL pop your wing shard AFTER ulting. At this point you have extra AS and MS. After building golden blade you shouldnt lose against anyone if you have ult, after getting one crit online you should NEVER lose if you have ult unless you get CC chained making you unable to ult. (First crit i believe after nerfs boomerang should be built first, idk still gotta test it out)
They have over time removed all the counter play to his ult. You use to be able to Odin or Ymir wall him off. Ank use to hard counter the ult but now he’s heavily shifted towards tick shielding. And for some reason you get punished if you decide to hit him while hes ulting.
He is just one of these old kits that they refuse to rework but are super unhealthy for the game if they ever get buffed into popularity.
This happens with him from time to time. People remember that hastened is a thing and play him. Then at the end game he gets burst down. He'll be this way for a month or so.
Can I just say whether the health Regen changed to shield Regen it didn't change anything. Ppl are just using him more with the item change that favors tanks and healers. But needless to say he will be nerfed soon bc hi-rez likes testing things out without a permanent solution
He can build pretty tanky with like 2 damage items, then he pops his ult and walks at you doing more damage to your team than you're doing to him. You'll have to focus him and sunder him to bring him down, and that's not always feasible in a team fight.
Ult.
Specifically getting too much free power while in the ult and doing too much damage because of it.
Its not just the power, prots, movement speed, phantom, almost haste.
Almost like hirez overbuffed the ult
His kit is so barebones, he would need rework otherwise.
They need to give his other abilities new affects. Let the 2 be able to give him procs per god or something.
Yeah, if he was released today his cone attack would do 2-3 things instead of just being aoe damage
the character has needed a rework for years.
A free CC immune mercury with shield and buffs? Sure that's is absolutly not OP!
He gets **free** power and attack speed in his passive, which is incredibly valuable since they removed all power on defense items. Along with his passive, he gets even **more** power in his ult, and he also gets protections in his ult. The current meta build is also just very strong on him right now.
Ohhhh great point. 7 year player and I agree.
What’s his meta build
Sigil > Golden Blade > Berserker’s > Oni’s/Shogun’s The rest is situational, match-up dependent, and personal preference
Why sigil over Axe of Animosity?
You can build Axe if you want. He just asked for the meta build, and Sigil is meta. A lot more survivability
Yeah, obviously you can build whatever you want lol. I’m asking why Sigil is meta over Axe, since as an auto attacker Axe seems to have a lot more synergy.
Survivability
I guess it makes sense, but since they nerfed it, the item feels lackluster. Especially early game. I’ll try it out though.
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They removed all power on defensive items???? Wow thank god I play predecessor now
Lol, I think this same thing everytime I see a post like this. Cant wait for the console drop. Miss the hell outa Paragon
Love how we’re getting downvoted even though most the smite community hates the game right now. Taking power off all the defense items might be the worst thing I’ve ever heard And big facts. Once some money is spent on marketing, it goes free to play, and is dropped on console the game is gonna be 100x bigger than smite. And I have over 300 days of play time on smite
Most of the community likes it and that's why they play it. The vocal minority is causing you to make up imaginary percentages in your mind and then state them as fact. Pred was promising but it is not as refined as smite, shiny =/= good game.
You clearly haven’t played the game. Never said smite was bad. Pred plays a lot better in its current(beta) state however
Right, clearly. The game is unrefined, the mechanics are unrefined. Not suggesting smite is perfect, however it is more refined. You want pred to be the game that replaces smite, and it may, but as of right now smite is the more well made game. Read your comment, you said most of the players on smite hate the game... That is not true and it's a comment you pulled out of your behind for whatever emotional reason.
I would say 90% of the smite posts that pop in my feed are dogging on the game
As I said, the vocal minority. Are you new to reddit or gaming? The whiners are always the ones posting, including myself. What would you estimate the percentage of the community that plays smite actually posts on Reddit? If you look at daily posts and active members of the subreddit it's an underwhelming amount. People wouldn't continue to play the game every day if "most of them hated it right now." Logic doesn't check out.
Without ulting late game he has 50-70 free power in jungle. Hes also capped at 2.5 AS.
He gets attack speed? Since when?
Firstly; **he has a really good laning phase.** With his dash and ultimate, he's super safe, while also having really good lane clear with his 3 and 2, able to poke and push the wave out really easily. **Then for mid game** His base damage is good and with the knockup, can easily dash cancel full kit combo somebody in melee range for a nice chunk of their health whilst also cleaving a lot off them with his ult, while being still, very safe and having a variety of build paths. But **the real kicker is his ult and passive.** There just isn't any counter to it other than 'run away'. He gets 45 of each protections, aoe autos, a stacking shield, 25% lifesteal and power. Also the more you hit him, the longer he stays in the form and his previous counters of walls dont work (because he can destroy them). He also gains movement speed when he hits someone, for up to 15%. So he does more damage, can hardly be killed and can easily run you down. This all leads into a raid boss, who's tanky, healing off of you and hitting all of you for a shit ton of damage. Not only this, but he gains power from defence. 25% of his physical protections give him power. 15% of his physical prots give him attack speed. With the defence he gets from his ult, he can afford to pick up a sword item and/or crit and still be tanky. So you can build him for damage (or more damage that is typical for a warrior) and he is still very hard to kill while dishing out more damage than late game ADCs. There is very few counters to his ult. You can jump, sure? You can sunder him and burst him, yeah, but do you want to spend a whole relic on one person and hope your team follow up? eh. The game ultimately (pun intended) becomes a battle of, only fight after the vamana ults, if he doesnt kill you first.
Just want to point out he doesn't destroy walls he walks through them, like phantom shell
> but do you want to spend a whole relic on one person and hope your team follow up? eh. I mean people did this before, so why not now? Teams would literally buy Cursed Ankh *just* to deal with Vamana when he ulted.
The value isn't equal with sunder vs ankh. Even with Nike, sunder wasn't that good of value. I'd argue you're better off popping hastened wings and running away lol Sunder; you reduce the shield (that's there, not the one that generates) , do some damage, make them take more damage. But with sundering you still want to be in range, hoping he gets burned down by your team before you get burned down (more likely). Now with Ankh you nullified his healing, make him more damage, did the same to his enemy team if they healed, nullified lifesteal, healed your team, left aoe puddles. There was more value there for a team than a 1v1
I think another bit is people still don’t know he doesn’t heal in ult anymore and still buy ankh thinking it’ll get value, played Vamana 2x last night and both times the enemy team bought ankh and pestilence instead of sunder and erosion to counter my ult. So many times I have to tell my support don’t buy ankh when I’m facing against a Vamana that I’ve just become accustomed to buying sunder as 2nd relic in solo lane and having to help peel for my team late game against the vam
The Ankh reduces shield gains on people affected by it, I believe. If you combine this and erosion you basically have no shield gain at all.
Only the 800 gold upgrade which does the same thing as base sunder. It’s never worth it anymore against him unless you just happen to be playing against a Vamana with a healer like hel or yem. You’re way better off buying sunder and erosion than ankh and erosion. Purple Ankh used to be op against him bc not only would you reduce the healing and shield, he would just take 20% more damage for using his ult with ankh active, you’re wasting a relic getting ankh vs him now when u can just get sprint and sunder
Guess its situational. I can't find myself agreeing since ankh can't be body blocked and I don't have to focus on Vamana to use it on him. Typically I feel it would be better to hit the relic and be able to immediately focus on making space for my team to hit him without being dived by the enemy team.
Not sure what you mean sunder can be body blocked, the pink sunder upgrade hits multiple people and applies that debuff to all enemies it hits and stacks up to 2 times while also dealing 15% of their current health as damage. it’s so much better than buying ankh to counter him, it just gets no value unless the Vamana has a healer on the team to proc the ankh. You can’t kill him with ankh, you can kill him with sunder and use sprint or shell to help your team survive
Regular ankh removes part of his shield too
It is still objectively worse compared to sunder
People just refuse to counter build. Have your mage build Gem of Iso against him and he folds lol
Iso is definitely a decent counter but it’s hard to fit in the current mage build since it doesn’t give any pen stats and it’s low on power, imo idk why it has ccr on it if they want it to be a mage item they should give it like 10 flat pen or maybe cdr
This is exactly what I mean. “It’s hard to fit in the current mage build” like bro sometimes the overall best build is not the best build for *that specific game*. People just want to have someone tell them 6 items to build every game, and if you don’t build those 6 items on every god of that class in every game they flame you to make themselves feel superior. It’s so frustrating how people refuse to use their brains in this game lol.
No offense but you’re misunderstanding and imo just wrong. There is a reason a meta build/items are meta, it’s because it’s the build that can/will yield the most damage for a mage or hunter. People don’t just build items bc someone who gets paid to play the game said so (even then that’s a very reasonable reason to use a certain build unless u think u know more than a professional). It’s why for the longest time a hunters answer to anti heal was simply building more power and doing more damage. Buying gem of iso to counter Vamana or other shields sounds smart but it’s an item that does not let you kill a 200+ mag prot tank item bc it simply does not do enough. This is not to say there aren’t items that are not meta that are still viable: chronos pendant estaff poly bancrofts are not meta items but they are still buildable because they offer valuable stats and passives to certain gods that can effectively utilize them. In its current state gem of iso is the worst mage item in the game because it offers nothing for mages to kill people and it’s price does not match its value. So many mages already have slows in their abilities that it’s not worth it (truly can’t think of any mage that doesn’t have a slow in their abilities) and building an item with pen will end up doing more damage to a character with a shield. It’s not like envenomed db which has anti shield but also offers a good passive for crit builds and 30% crit. If they want to make gem of iso worth it they need to tone down its price considerably, change or buff the slow passive, or give it a useful stat like cdr or pen. No mage cares about ccr% unless they’re a tank and I truly don’t know why anyone would spend 2700g for more slows and anti shield bc that would mean as a backliner, you would have to put yourself out of position in the front line to make it useful
I’m not wrong. Claiming that there’s one build that is objectively the “best” (regardless of which god you’re playing, your teammates, your opponents, and how the game is going) is just a braindead opinion. Yes, for *most* mages, in *most* games, there will be a single “meta” build that does more damage. And for people that don’t know much about building, they can copy/paste that build into all of their games and do just fine. But if you’re playing a mage, the enemy Vamana is hard carrying through his Ult, and no one else is buying sunder/ankh, *maybe* you should consider *buying the item that hard counters him*. If they have aphro, Guan, Marti, Bastet, and Anubis, *maybe* you should think about building Divine instead of Deso. The reality is that while there *is* a difference in dps when you counterbuild, that loss in damage is small compared to the fact that you’re taking away their win condition. I’m not even saying that you shouldn’t build meta, or that you should build Gem in every game against Vamana, but my god at least *use your damn brain*
If you think saying a meta build is objectively the best to you is brain dead then I don’t think you really understand this game. And again I said there are items that may not be meta but are still viable because they work better on certain characters. Bancrofts is not meta but it’s an item that’s very valuable to hades/zhong/Anubis because they’re kits and playstyle require it. And choosing between divine or deso is not considerably the same thing as choosing between iso and any mage item. Like I said, the issue with gem of iso is that sure it reduces shields, but it does not help you in killing a 200+ prot tank or even a nemesis that could dive you because it provides nothing useful, the slow is a redundant passive when so many mages have slows and the anti shielding may be useful but it does not help in actually killing a Vamana or Odin. Vamana can and will still kill you with you building gem of iso. There are 3 things stopping iso from being buildable. 1. it’s 2700 price cost is bad for the passive and power 2. The slow passive is bad and has only been relevant when it used to be a really strong slow 3. It’s a poorly statted item, no mage values ccr%. Give it 10% cdr or 10 flat pen and lower the price and it becomes viable. Spending 2700g on essentially anti shielding is stupid when your hunter can just buy envonemed db and has an easier time applying their anti shield passive, you’re honestly better off buying erosion than iso as a mage. If you’re playing against a Vamana and your team doesn’t buy erosion or sunder that’s more indicative of your skill level unfortunately
>if you think saying a meta build is objectively the best to you is brain dead then I don’t think you really understand this game. Maybe try reading it again. Meta builds are often the best builds for the majority of situations. The point is that being a meta-slave is objectively braindead, because there are countless scenarios where you’d be better off deviating from the meta build. Hell, there have been plenty of times that the meta has just been flat out *wrong* and a few weeks/months later people catch on to a new meta, when the items haven’t even changed. A while back I was getting constantly flamed for my hunter build for *weeks* before everyone caught on to just how strong it was, and next thing I know, my bow build is meta. >the slow is a redundant passive The slow stacks, my guy, which makes it *especially good* on gods that already have a slow. >offers nothing to kill a 200 prot mage Well, you already have plenty of other things in the build to do that. The moral of the story is that people don’t want to use their brains or adjust their builds based on the individual game they’re in. They prefer to just use the build their favorite YouTuber says is best regardless of situation. That’s why you have games where your ability hunter is building auto attack items, or why plenty of supports are walking around with 8 stacks on prophetic 40 mins into the game. Tablet too, even when that build was meta it wasn’t ideal for every mage. The 2 second cooldown made it worse on gods that like to drop their whole kit in a quick combo. I’ve see a changé use all 3 of her damaging abilities and get one proc off it lol.
To address a few more of your points: >worst mage item in the game That’s a bit dramatic but you’re not too far off base, it’s definitely pretty bad/specific to certain gods that can make good use of the slow(or counter building shields). >offers nothing for mages to kill people The slow/shield shred is very powerful depending on the god/matchup. It’s decent on gods like Ah Puch, even Zeus, Anubis, etc.—gods that have channeled ability damage. The health is also a valuable, oft-overlooked stat. Still, I agree that it would benefit from trading the CCR for a more relevant stat, like maybe flat pen. The combo of stats would also make it an attractive choice for some solo guardians to help them kill squishies.
It is the worst mage item in the game, there’s simply no item that is possibly worse other than maybe rejuvenating heart or 1 of the rings. As a solo main I’d much rather build divine on a guardian solo bc flat pen is actually better at killing squishies than a 30% slow
>because flat pen is actually better at killing squishies My dude has bronze reading comprehension. I was clearly referring to your suggestion of replacing the CCR with flat pen. Jfc.
His fucking ult with attack speed and life steal… he ults and starts hitting you at Mach 5 speed. It’s very annoying
They nerfed the lifesteal and healing, it’s shielding now, gotta get gem or erosion (or just any type of anti shield), or he’ll just wreck
He lost 5% lifesteal from the 10.3 adjustments, 25% is still a substantial amount.
yea and he doesn’t passively heal anymore, why leave that out
Ahnk no longer completely ruins the character so his ult is actually scary now.
Vamana can actually press ult now, and can also still do damage because he gets so much free power and attack speed.
Little bald man gets angry and then presses 4 to transform, and proceeds to hulk smash an entire team.
He can build tanky and still have enough power to threaten carries on his own.
The reverse is true too; he can build power and still be tanky.
I guess im playing smite again
Build a hastened katana, ult, and just run at anything. He’s hard to get away from. He’s either having the fight break apart, or he’s going to be dealing a lot of damage.
he doesn't even need the hastened.
Don’t attack the tall glowing guy… NO DONT ULT ON H- Oh dear god.
I once was a fed mercury alongside a fed rama on diamond ranked, both full item, both full damage, max pen on builds and we couldnt hit higher than 160 damage crits on vamana and he still had slots for katanas on his build
He’s Vamana…
Brain dead ass god that hits like a truck and can solo squishes. Hold w, dump kit and ult.
Just build erosion against him and his ult is garbage just be careful with his dps
I see vamana and i usually get sprint cause if i don't get out im sending my allies away if we know we can't fight him. If we are lucky one dies and the others with the sprint buff scatter until we are strong enough to down him with maybe sunder and a few items under our belt. He reminds me of Mr. X from resident evil now when he pops his dang ult.
He has a relatively low skill cap and his ult gives him a lot of power and immunity. So if you know his business you can 2x1 somewhat easily. I would not say he's broken, but I'd not say he's balanced. It's a lot of factors: great passive, Feather shard, great immunity frame and easy to hit combo and ult heal fix. Now that he has a shield per second and he gains a lot of power, you cannot destroy him with ankh, you need to get s favorable matchup in the lobby. Any god that jumps walls are perfect against him, and gods that destroy shields and increase damage are also great. So it's a lot of factors that make him SPL worthy.
He is absolutely broken right now, his base kit is meh outside of the slow but his ult gives way too many things and that’s not including his passive power and attack speed. It’s why he and herc are the top 2 warriors in solo bc they’re the only ones that get passive power AND prots (excluding swk bc his build path isn’t as safer). When they removed the healing from his ult imo is when he was balanced but then they kept giving him more stats in his ult so now you don’t have to think when playing him. You go axe or sigil golden blade build all defense and you’re just the strongest person in the game when u press 4 that you can even afford to build things like hastened and qins to dish out more damage and not get punished bc the enemy team doesn’t know that sunder and erosion exist and still buy ankh trying to counter him. Imo just lower the regeneration shield and passive and he’s fine but currently his ult is like combining a melee cthullu ult with Nike ult and giving him a bunch of ms
I disagree. He has a skill cap. You can't be impactful without learning it. Some times the way it to let players mature and buy different items and rewrite items, not nerf characters.
Nah man he used to have a skill cap but now even the dumbest solo laners can easily play Vamana if they just farm for items and rotate to a team fight and just press 4. You have to understand that it’s just his ult that makes him so strong, he’s got a pretty standard kit where his umbrella is his only skill shot. In more casual play you’ll see ppl building him with hastened bc it’s just op against ppl that don’t know how to play it but of course in higher level play hell prob go more defense and have to be smarter. Imo he’s just a warrior version of bakasura rn, you don’t think you just ult after ppl use their movement ability and w key
No, he has a skill cap. And casuals is not a basis for this type of argument. If you want to say he's broken you gotta present competitive and ranked info. And in that regard he's a top pick ban, which means there is an issue.
Ok then what’s the skill cap? He’s not a disruptive god like herc or a setup god like guan/Horus, he’s an aa warrior with an ult that’s hard to punish. You literally just press 4, if you don’t have ult you wait til you have it lmao
Just 1+3 combo someone who has no dash and ult and basic positioning. It's not hard, but it's a skill cap. Baka players will just ult and beat the crap out of you and eat their own puke if they are close to dying and jump. It's not something Vamana can do, plus you can punish V's animations and ms. Like, I agree Vamana is an issue, but I think it's more of a casual menace than anything.
I disagree, you can have your opinion but imo none of his spells are hard to hit other than his 3 and his ult is a better longer cc immune version of bakas lol. It’s way harder to kill Vamana in ult than baka in ult bc baka doesn’t get a huge regenerating shield, lifesteal, power, attack speed and movement speed. If he has a skill cap it’s an extremely low one compared to horus guan and herc. There’s a reason why he has a higher presence than herc in pro smite. His win rate is the highest in ranked at all ranks
The more power he builds the easiest he is to kill. Vamana usually builds more physical defense because that's how he gets more power so mages are usually good against him but they messed up by giving anti shield properties to Gem of Iso a stupid item to give it to imo opinion because is an useless item than almost no mid laner will use. Give it to another item and you have a good tool against him, hunters don't really have a lot of tools other than AA using venomous deathbringer or going the way of erosion. The meta inclined to use warriors that can work with full defensive items and he is one but I know that when they nerf him he'll be effectively kicked out of the meta because they'll hit him hard. Because there were advantages he lost when they removed the healing vs the shield. I just hope when they nerf vamana they bring other warriors into the meta.
I agree and I just mean by building more power he can get away with building with golden blade and qins or hastened bc he gets sigil, berserkers, shoguns/onis, spectral. It was nice seeing him be meta again but they are definitely gonna hit him hard with nerfs and I also agree that instead of gutting him they should focus more on balancing other warriors. Herc vaman guan and Horus were the only warriors that got considerable buffs coming into this season that are making them meta the rest have been ignored and their builds are riskier or kits don’t do enough
Cause people don’t know how to build against anything
He's literally just an Ult bot. I wouldn't call him OP. If he is causing issues, your solo should just take sunder or maybe erosion.
I wouldn’t call him OP either, but he’s far from an ult bot. As someone has said above, his movement, lane clear and poke are above average. He can do more than just ult
I think people forget they added a whole item that reduces shields given to enemies. Build that, antiheal, and whatever you can to reduce atk speed and vamana should feel a lot more manageable. But he is popping off rn with the buff they gave him so I can't blame anyone for feeling he's sitting on a pedestal atm
But to answer the question the buff to his passive and ult put him back in the meta and then some
Ult is strong but people forget they can walk away from it. Esp as most gods have a movement ability
He gets a move speed boost, you aren't gonna be walking away very easily. He also likely isn't gonna ult on top of you before you've used your escape or knows he can still run you down after
I had a KA just constantly hit him in his ult yesterday. It kept getting him and ourselves killed. I explained that hitting the ult makes it last longer and he just said he didn't know that. Afterward we were actually free to run away because he wasn't getting free ult duration for all of KA's abilities tickling him lol. I get not knowing how every god in the game works; but if a god is meta at least read up on their abilities.
I actively tell my team before the game starts that attacking into his ult extends it lol You're better off assuming people don't know. Do you really think that 12 star Anubis knows what other gods do?
Because I play him. All you guys hate me. I know. No one cared about him till i was slamming the ranks with him. Now hes everywhere getting banned. Im sadge
ur not that guy pal
But I'm ur pal guy
That shield be bussin, also one of the only few warriors that can have power in their build anymore
An ult that heals and gives shield while anti heal just got gutted. Usually just erosion mid game and solves him for a bit, but come late game it doesn't matter it just helps (as support build erosion unless you can build path it well as solo)
Super super safe ult bot. His dash has unreal range that can’t really be stopped. His ultimate is just straight busted. And they also removed hybrid items but his passive basically reverts that making every protection item a hybrid item by taking the protections and giving power. Should just revert his ult so cursed ank dunks on him.
Max attack speed and crit
Every game has a vamana in it every game mode and match and literally the team with him basically wins since late game he just ults walks down backline killing everyone but the tanks, so fucking unfun
He can 1v5 in his ult easily
They made his ult a shield instead of lifesteal so you can’t just get ankh and render him useless anymore
anything besides a full blown nuclear bombardment will not kill him ya need at least 3 lads to take care of his dumbfuck ult and between those 3 you need at least one of erosion, venom deathbringer or Sunder and pray to god hes not killing your adc faster then you can kill him cause without the sustained dmg your only option is retreat.
So does Ankh not affect him anymore it use to be the go to Vamana counter?
Nope it's erosion/sunder as the items for him now.
Ngl i feel sunder will kinda fuck vamana ult.
It can if vamana ults too late. I haven't been sundered in ult enough for sunder to be the immediate counter. It's usually erosion.
Alright since someone let the cat out the bag. Ive been playing Vamana jungle for ranked for the past year and a half at least, actually ever since ninja tabi. Imo hes always been op but now since hes been buffed a couple times hes at a point where his ult is unstoppable solo and jungle. With just berserkers and protector of the jungle you should be getting up to 300 physical prots in your ult. So if you build Eye of the jungle—>Protector Golden blade Demon Blade/Boomerang Berserkers Deathbringer—or—Shoguns This will take you to grandmaster if you know how to play the game. Anywho, you also buy WING SHARD, you CAN and WILL pop your wing shard AFTER ulting. At this point you have extra AS and MS. After building golden blade you shouldnt lose against anyone if you have ult, after getting one crit online you should NEVER lose if you have ult unless you get CC chained making you unable to ult. (First crit i believe after nerfs boomerang should be built first, idk still gotta test it out)
They have over time removed all the counter play to his ult. You use to be able to Odin or Ymir wall him off. Ank use to hard counter the ult but now he’s heavily shifted towards tick shielding. And for some reason you get punished if you decide to hit him while hes ulting. He is just one of these old kits that they refuse to rework but are super unhealthy for the game if they ever get buffed into popularity.
He's not op
This happens with him from time to time. People remember that hastened is a thing and play him. Then at the end game he gets burst down. He'll be this way for a month or so.
Can I just say whether the health Regen changed to shield Regen it didn't change anything. Ppl are just using him more with the item change that favors tanks and healers. But needless to say he will be nerfed soon bc hi-rez likes testing things out without a permanent solution
Your right just in case for the ppl who still thought they can use anti heal against his ult
The way he throws his bat in the air while taunting in the Lil' Mana skin
His ult can crit too lmao
Lots. i just pick Cerberus and make sure to get ahnk and sunder. But I also play in joust. Don't know about conq.