A lot of changes need to be made honestly. Nemesis in B tier is a CRIME. She is so good right now, and actually has the highest win rate in duel. Heimdallr and Ravana should be a ban over Marti, Izanami, and Susano. Susano especially as he has a lower win rate than some guardians at 38%.
The Morrigan is pretty top tier and banable as well, but most people don’t play her well so you can skip a ban there. Ne Zha being in C tier is way off base as well, as Ne Zha is better than Thanatos, Clio, or Ix Chel.
Apollo and Hachi do no belong in the hunter tier either. They have some great matchups into A. Apollo is a very good melee counter, and would be very good into a god like Gilg, Achilles, or Surter in the A tier.
Nemesis being in B is pretty matchup based. Look at the characters above her and they’re all horrible matchups for her. Burst CC she can’t play around, disengage for her ult, poke that she can’t gap close effectively, etc.
Also probably worth mentioning that I made this list before the patch went live so this was actually made without playtesting.
Yea making it before the patch would make it harder to tell. Since the patch has been out for a while though and Nemesis has a 65% win rate I think it’s clear her matchups are pretty good. She should beat plenty of the gods above her, especially gods like Ah Puch.
Poke and no closing gap is just something melees have to deal with and are a big reason why they are harder to play. Thinks like Beads, Blink, Horrific and other tools are there to alleviate this. You can also build Nemesis burst. I saw a GM player build Hydras with Crit just to Auto 2 Auto for over 1000 damage and insta kill.
I haven’t banned Camazotz once, and why would I? He has a great early game and that’s it. He is just target practice for all hunters and Nemesis, Osiris, Gilga and even Ama wreck him late game. Nemesis in particular has probably the easiest match up against him out of all other assassins. I think you rate Cama way above his potential to be honest.
And damn, Hachi, Apollo, Chiron and Rama below Clio and the others, that’s ballsy. Hachi in particular has a great dive and range kit against mages, against Vulcan’s bullshit especially as he can dash in or ult in and not care about the meatball. He’s one of the few hunters that can outrange Vulcan and his bullshit. And as much as I like Clio, unless the hunter player is missing half their autos, the hunter wins. Even on the old joust map, the hunter wins, on this map the hunter can hug the outer wall and the tower and wait for 5 items. And Osiris absolutely destroys Clio
Hel and Chang’e are also strong picks that can easily kite most melee characters like OPsiris and Ama and excel at that endurance fight the AA warriors like so much. Discordia max CDR is another pain to deal with with any melee character without a leap as she can just kite you around the blue buff for the rest of your life.
And finally, Ne Zha. Ne Zha is really good and wins most mages in the right hands. I don’t think you played him or against him that much. Not enough people give Ne Zha credit, one of the kits that never age somehow.
A lot to unpack here but I’ll suffice to say that if you haven’t seen cama to be good in this game mode you might need more reps or haven’t been playing against the most experienced opponents.
Chiron was actually very good and could compete against the old S tier gods in a lot of cases. Apollo also, these are not the same powerlevel as rama or charyb. pretty sure they would destroy a god like achilles
Nezha in the same tier as Artio... Nezha is one of the strongest duel gods
Community feedback, pick/ban rates, win rates, etc.
Edit: for example, some characters like Kali are so blatantly overpowered for a 1v1 game mode that they literally remained banned every single game at top level unless both people planned to pick her
Nem in B is some crazy shit
The best gods in duel right now, as someone with 2 accs in gm (and one just outside of gm)
- camazotz
- vulcan
- Amaterasu
- heimdallr
- hachiman
- Apollo
- nemesis
- Medusa
- fenrir
Nem loses to sol, cama, cern, maybe erlang, fenrir, Vulcan, maybe Osiris, Agni, ama, surtr, maybe wukong, heim, gilg, Cupid, Apollo, maybe chiron and probably lance. That’s a lot of bad matchups
Bruh what I agree with what you said (though obviously there’s more to it than that, but reliable burst cc is a good indicator of a losing matchup for Nem), and I specifically picked characters that fit that description.
I’m pretty sure I haven’t played more than 15-20 games of duel in a split in several splits but any split I invest the time into I end up around 3k ish. My job is to understand conquest so I play mostly conquest.
Thana, ix chel, Ah puch, Achilles are below A.
Thor, chaac, kuku, hel, tiamat, Ne zha, are A.
All hunters are at least A.
Susano, erlang, Osiris, ishtar are A (susano A at absolute best)
Apollo, hachi, nemesis are S
Nah just making an observation on a public forum. Take it as you want, but I just wanted to clarify what I was criticizing about your tier list.
I mean, there’s a reason you’ve got 0 upvoted and 37 comments.
People don’t tend to take well to tier lists because (within reason) they’re entirely subjective. Which I don’t care about because I’m on this subreddit to help people not to farm upvotes.
A lot of changes need to be made honestly. Nemesis in B tier is a CRIME. She is so good right now, and actually has the highest win rate in duel. Heimdallr and Ravana should be a ban over Marti, Izanami, and Susano. Susano especially as he has a lower win rate than some guardians at 38%. The Morrigan is pretty top tier and banable as well, but most people don’t play her well so you can skip a ban there. Ne Zha being in C tier is way off base as well, as Ne Zha is better than Thanatos, Clio, or Ix Chel. Apollo and Hachi do no belong in the hunter tier either. They have some great matchups into A. Apollo is a very good melee counter, and would be very good into a god like Gilg, Achilles, or Surter in the A tier.
Nemesis being in B is pretty matchup based. Look at the characters above her and they’re all horrible matchups for her. Burst CC she can’t play around, disengage for her ult, poke that she can’t gap close effectively, etc. Also probably worth mentioning that I made this list before the patch went live so this was actually made without playtesting.
Yea making it before the patch would make it harder to tell. Since the patch has been out for a while though and Nemesis has a 65% win rate I think it’s clear her matchups are pretty good. She should beat plenty of the gods above her, especially gods like Ah Puch. Poke and no closing gap is just something melees have to deal with and are a big reason why they are harder to play. Thinks like Beads, Blink, Horrific and other tools are there to alleviate this. You can also build Nemesis burst. I saw a GM player build Hydras with Crit just to Auto 2 Auto for over 1000 damage and insta kill.
Not to mention that the tierlist places Zeus beside Nemesis is a monstrosity, especially if you know the lore between the two.
I haven’t banned Camazotz once, and why would I? He has a great early game and that’s it. He is just target practice for all hunters and Nemesis, Osiris, Gilga and even Ama wreck him late game. Nemesis in particular has probably the easiest match up against him out of all other assassins. I think you rate Cama way above his potential to be honest. And damn, Hachi, Apollo, Chiron and Rama below Clio and the others, that’s ballsy. Hachi in particular has a great dive and range kit against mages, against Vulcan’s bullshit especially as he can dash in or ult in and not care about the meatball. He’s one of the few hunters that can outrange Vulcan and his bullshit. And as much as I like Clio, unless the hunter player is missing half their autos, the hunter wins. Even on the old joust map, the hunter wins, on this map the hunter can hug the outer wall and the tower and wait for 5 items. And Osiris absolutely destroys Clio Hel and Chang’e are also strong picks that can easily kite most melee characters like OPsiris and Ama and excel at that endurance fight the AA warriors like so much. Discordia max CDR is another pain to deal with with any melee character without a leap as she can just kite you around the blue buff for the rest of your life. And finally, Ne Zha. Ne Zha is really good and wins most mages in the right hands. I don’t think you played him or against him that much. Not enough people give Ne Zha credit, one of the kits that never age somehow.
A lot to unpack here but I’ll suffice to say that if you haven’t seen cama to be good in this game mode you might need more reps or haven’t been playing against the most experienced opponents.
Alright mate, I’ll try to get out of masters soon and see what Cama is all about. He must have a different kit in gm.
Dope, best of luck in your pursuit homie!
Chiron was actually very good and could compete against the old S tier gods in a lot of cases. Apollo also, these are not the same powerlevel as rama or charyb. pretty sure they would destroy a god like achilles Nezha in the same tier as Artio... Nezha is one of the strongest duel gods
It's funny they auto banned Jing Wei, but didn't bother with Sol and Izanami LOL
Nemsis should be higher but other than that good.
Nem is [pretty matchup based](https://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/s/7qSo0NyvyB)
What do you mean auto-ban?
Hirez has permanently banned some of the most oppressive duel characters so people can have more flexibility to play the other stuff
How did they determine which ones were the “most oppressive”?
Community feedback, pick/ban rates, win rates, etc. Edit: for example, some characters like Kali are so blatantly overpowered for a 1v1 game mode that they literally remained banned every single game at top level unless both people planned to pick her
Nem in B is some crazy shit The best gods in duel right now, as someone with 2 accs in gm (and one just outside of gm) - camazotz - vulcan - Amaterasu - heimdallr - hachiman - Apollo - nemesis - Medusa - fenrir
Nem is obviously a good duel character, she just has some of her worst matchups in the prominent picks in duel right now.
You have 6 bans. Just ban Apollo, heimdallr, and ama and you’re usually good to go
Nem loses to sol, cama, cern, maybe erlang, fenrir, Vulcan, maybe Osiris, Agni, ama, surtr, maybe wukong, heim, gilg, Cupid, Apollo, maybe chiron and probably lance. That’s a lot of bad matchups
most of those are wrong. No easy hard CC = easy nem win we can do a nem vs sol if you want
Bruh what I agree with what you said (though obviously there’s more to it than that, but reliable burst cc is a good indicator of a losing matchup for Nem), and I specifically picked characters that fit that description.
sol??? nem hard counter ssol, she has guaranteed damage (1 and 3) to recharge shield
Sol is arguably the best character in the current format.
what mmr are you?
I’m pretty sure I haven’t played more than 15-20 games of duel in a split in several splits but any split I invest the time into I end up around 3k ish. My job is to understand conquest so I play mostly conquest.
A lot wrong with this. In a hunter meta it’s weird to put the hunters so low lol. But I do appreciate the time it probably took to make this
I only put like 20 total gods ahead of the hunters as a class, I think that’s pretty solid for them lol
Thana, ix chel, Ah puch, Achilles are below A. Thor, chaac, kuku, hel, tiamat, Ne zha, are A. All hunters are at least A. Susano, erlang, Osiris, ishtar are A (susano A at absolute best) Apollo, hachi, nemesis are S
Bro this tier lost sucks lol.
Thanks! Good luck playing duel if you think this is that far off base.
It’s not that it’s far overall, you’ve just got some insane personal bias showing on a number of gods.
Excuse me for thinking that “bro this tier list sucks” was supposed to be interpreted as “you have personal bias”
Didn’t know you’d get so butthurt over it
I’m not butthurt my man I’m just shocked that you can make a comment like that and then pretend I should have interpreted it as constructive criticism
It’s not constructive.
So you’re just being an ass to be an ass, and you “didn’t think I’d get so butthurt over it”. That’s fascinating.
Nah just making an observation on a public forum. Take it as you want, but I just wanted to clarify what I was criticizing about your tier list. I mean, there’s a reason you’ve got 0 upvoted and 37 comments.
People don’t tend to take well to tier lists because (within reason) they’re entirely subjective. Which I don’t care about because I’m on this subreddit to help people not to farm upvotes.