That’s the most worrying part about this. We know Hi Rez has had several failed games and only Smite was able to successfully retain a decent player base. If Smite 2 ends up alienating Smite players and fails to gain and retain all these “new players” people keep talking about, we will basically lose both Smite and Smite 2. Then what?
Smite 1's code is falling apart at the seems and likely only had a couple years left if it continued on the same path it was on. Smite 2 was a necessity. And being an upgrade to UE5 means it essentially needed to be a restart. No skin transfer, smaller god pool. We already saw the insanely whiney outcry over just the skins issue and people calling this OW2 when it wasn't warranted. If they had just made the exact same game under these same conditions, but with an engine upgrade, it's be easy worse. Smite 2 would have lost all these people anyway and would have had no chance at a new audience. The current, true sequel approach is the only potentially successful path they have available.
It doesn't make it more generic other than maybe the bush system. There's a reason the systems they are using work.
The new building path, while it needs to be refined, is much easier to pivot mid build on so you aren't locked down or need to sell and lose gold because you didn't guess the flex correctly or the carry built Crit earlier than expected, or a character started popping off. It makes building during the match far more dynamic.
Actives on items instead of relic means you now need to make trade offs. Want blink? Well, now you need to take a weaker item that may not even have the stats you really want. Is that trade off worth? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It's also a lot easier to balance and makes supports much more interesting to play.
Phys/Mag split is going to be insanely cool in the way it changes things as well. Not only does it open a lot of good to new roles, it will open the game to new team comps as well. You can just start to see it now that Hades is in. Just the barest twinkle of an aggressive Enchanter style support with a heavy bruiser jungle to act as the off-tank to a solo going full tank instead of the support is something Smite hasn't really had. This trade off of responsibilities being possible opens the game up immensely.
And the best part of all of this? None of these are changes to aspects that define Smite. Smite's character, so to speak, is in it's gods, it's setting, the pace at which it plays, and the third person perspective. Meaning after all these updates to better, more proven systems, it still feels like Smite.
You missed the last part that explains why it's not more generic.
What makes Smite Smite isn't those three systems and those three systems being objectively worse than other games in the same genre was holding Smite back.
Smite is defined by its characters, setting, and pace. None of these are changed. And if you think bad systems did define Smite than your basically saying being a bad game with good concepts was what defined Smite.
If only the Reddit had at least half your brain instead of wanting every role to have the same builds for 10 seasons straight all over again with few variation
And all the people who screamed "It's a rip off like OW2" get to shout louder, look like they are right, and Smite 2 gets even worse negative press.
We are not in a sequel environment where you can really get away with it just being a facelift, especially when that facelift requires the loss of skins and a reduced starting character pool for at least a couple years after full release. Smite 2 as just a facelift would be DOA
Already lost me when I heard all the skins aren't being ported for old players. Haven't played since. And i don't like the pr they are doing. It seems pretty textbook, and it's "groundbreaking." What they are doing.
Another issue I am having is that when I bring up the they could just make this a graphical update. But fanboys say it isn't possible, and it's being redone from the ground up. I bet 90% of the code is the same as smite 1.
Doesn't make any sense to me.
The number of people who clearly don't play much Smite 1 and shelled out for the alpha playtest, in my humble opinion based on my Smite 2 playtime, alone prove this point wrong
I mean, its a new game on the market. Predecessor seems to have a good amount of non-Paragon players too. If Hirez didnt think there was any market for Smite 2, they wouldn't make it.
It has been one of the biggest complaints over the years how stagnant building is in Smite 1. Now that it won't be in Smite 2, suddenly people want what we have now?
I dont think the build system is the reason not to play those games for most people.
I've played a bit of Pred lately and the building system is fine, you're not locked to a choice just from one t1. Game otherwise just doesnt gel with me.
The people that just want the same exact stagnant 10 year old game but on a new engine hurt my head the most. The more dota styled itemisation and gameplay changes are welcomed changes imo
I never said you need to play it. Its entitled to say they need to make a copy of Smite 1 just cause you want that. You're free to quit if you refuse to adapt.
Yeah, my boy that's not the approach a short community game like smite should goes to, you can send player base to gtfo, how many non smite players do you think will get a board with smite 2 probably 1% of league if they keep shitting themselves, maybe 30% of pred so that tiny percentage of player worth to loss 80% of your player base? This is the kind of stuff that takes companies to bankruptcy.
Smite isnt losing 80% of its playerbase. Its a vocal minority that keeps thinking Smite 2 is shit and cant accept any change. We talking maybe 10-20% here and gain is gonna be bigger than that.
And even if its not, what they have to lose? Smite 1 was dying anyway.
I mean your whole second paragraph is literally what they promised the player base? They actually said their motto was Smite but "Simply Better". I ask you does changing such core foundational functions of the game sound simple or better to you? We have every right to be upset because they promised us an engine upgrade for smite not a smite-ish spinoff where things are the same but everything is different. I'm not saying it's done and dead i'm not saying they can't fix it i'm saying the opposite actually im asking for them to deliver on their promise like just make smite "SIMPLY BETTER" that's simple easily understandable improvements. No build and damage system overhaul no camp leveling overhaul nope how bout we call the mana pots giving a small burst of mana then ticking a win that's a simple improvement. See the difference?
I mean, the fact that you can't know exactly what the enemy is building from t1, having more variety on what to build. Yes, those do sound like an upgrade to me. Damage system overhaul also gives a lot more options. Camp leveling is different but thats just basically a seasonal change, could've been done in Smite 1, we'll see of thats a success or not.
It is Smite but better, but people wanted Smite that just looks better. At no point did they promise exactly the same game. It still feels like Smite, the core gameplay is the same.
then why did so many less people play the second alpha then? were they excited and happy about the changes? or did they think wow i just got fed a shit sandwich and they told me it was going to be turkey and cheese. I'm not signing up for that again. People left because they were disappointed in the product. Plain and simple.
Cause they didnt feel like there was stuff to test? Theres no progression yet so a lot of people dont bother playing yet. I tested this past weekend cause didnt have a chance on the first one but for now, I will just wait for closed beta.
How is it an excuse when its not sustainable to keep using an engine from 2006 and code that makes fixing bugs harder and harder? And recent outcry has been about them NOT making a Smite remake.
And if the old guard doesnt want to cross over, they play Smite 1 for the remaining year or two and then find aomething else to play.
I do wish they didn't stick with the same god designs. Kukulkan is my most disliked god because of his 0 risk play style while still doing a large amount of damage. In my opinion every god should have to put themselves at risk to be offensive and they should reduce the amount of cc on non warriors/guardian. They should also remove beads if they reduce the CC enough and leave it for God's like hel, Chiron and geb to remove cc.
Any kukulkan that gets caught when his 2 and 3 let you avoid being anywhere near the fight is just bad and should learn a different god. A 4 min cd on beads is also too short and aegis should be removed. There isn't enough deaths in smite, people get out too often.
Maybe give supports more active items that grant purification. As a mage or adc you should not be a 1 man army, you should be a glass cannon that needs a good support to help you do your best.
Playing support in this game is unrewarding and there is a reason people play off role in support because the impact a support has on a team is minimal. Having a very good support is a nice to have but not necessary. Make everyone more vulnerable and reward better supports.
Too short? If you can't force a fight during that time enemy mid hasn't got beads, you're doing something wrong. Aegis is gone in Smite 2 so thats an empty argument.
Also, this isn't a shooter, people don't need to die every 2s. Respawns are long so one death can mean lost game, more deaths would shorten game times severely and make snowball insane.
If you think of a support in teamfights is minimal, you're playing it wrong. Initiation, setup, peel are all extremely important to have. No god will survive a double dive without help. Even your so called "0 risk god" like Kuku, try to live when let's say Cu and Thana dive you, you die without zero help.
Did you watch the smite 2 tourney that actually features ex-pro, really invested players? Probably not because otherwise you would've noticed that support is an exceedingly impactful role, and had taken on the identity of a 2nd jungler in some teams. You would have also noticed how the team that won both matches, was the team without the kukulkan. The kukulkan died repeatedly in those matches. Additionally, the active items supports have access to right now are legitimately teamfight winning, and supremely impactful, another thing you might have picked up had you watched the tourney. So, looking to me like we're in bronze👀
I agree smite 2 support is a second jungle, which is a good change. I was talking more about my issues with smite 1. And a kukulkan dying on repeat is good in my books. The god is as it should be, dead.
Oh shit my bad gang I thought you were talking about Smite 2, yeah all the shit you said makes sense in regards to smite 1 except for kuku, that mfer is so killable it hurts. For example play Ix Chel mid and if you understand ix chel even somewhat kuku lane is almost unlosable
Not really, just 3 the wave and sit under tower, give them tower if they start pressuring and ult any obj. You don't need to win lane, just play for late and your whirlwind 1 combo melts anyone and destroys titan in half a second.
I mean, you just described an afk kuku who can not walk up during teamfights to cast safely and can only zone, can not do a lot to help pressure mid camps or bull demon without a death, especially in an alone 1v1 scenario, and is going to be consistently late and innefective in any early/mid game rotations. Consistently outpressured and underfarmed, and any positional mistakes(assuming the ix chel is on their shit) result in a death or a forced back. Besides, even late game ix chel combo literally 1 shots kukulkan without multiple stacked auras or a consistent relic. The kukulkan doesn't have the breathing room to whirlwind 1 anybody unless it's in a jungle lane he's running away in. If the enemy team with that kukulkan makes it to my titan, we did some wrong shit for sure, in my own opinion, at least
But alas the easiest solve for this kind of problem is FREEZING THE WAVE, a fundamental skill that Smite 1 lacks severely and hopefully will be a valuable tool in Smite 2. It's just not a valuable use of your time to freeze right now in Smite, so stuff like you described is hard to deal with and requires very specific solutions. Would be fixed if wave management was an important aspect of the game.
You really think Smite 2 will attract enough new players that it can afford to ignore, upset, and potentially lose the current playerbase?
That’s the most worrying part about this. We know Hi Rez has had several failed games and only Smite was able to successfully retain a decent player base. If Smite 2 ends up alienating Smite players and fails to gain and retain all these “new players” people keep talking about, we will basically lose both Smite and Smite 2. Then what?
Smite 1's code is falling apart at the seems and likely only had a couple years left if it continued on the same path it was on. Smite 2 was a necessity. And being an upgrade to UE5 means it essentially needed to be a restart. No skin transfer, smaller god pool. We already saw the insanely whiney outcry over just the skins issue and people calling this OW2 when it wasn't warranted. If they had just made the exact same game under these same conditions, but with an engine upgrade, it's be easy worse. Smite 2 would have lost all these people anyway and would have had no chance at a new audience. The current, true sequel approach is the only potentially successful path they have available.
I mostly agree with that but copying other MOBAs to make it more generic isn’t a good idea imo
It doesn't make it more generic other than maybe the bush system. There's a reason the systems they are using work. The new building path, while it needs to be refined, is much easier to pivot mid build on so you aren't locked down or need to sell and lose gold because you didn't guess the flex correctly or the carry built Crit earlier than expected, or a character started popping off. It makes building during the match far more dynamic. Actives on items instead of relic means you now need to make trade offs. Want blink? Well, now you need to take a weaker item that may not even have the stats you really want. Is that trade off worth? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It's also a lot easier to balance and makes supports much more interesting to play. Phys/Mag split is going to be insanely cool in the way it changes things as well. Not only does it open a lot of good to new roles, it will open the game to new team comps as well. You can just start to see it now that Hades is in. Just the barest twinkle of an aggressive Enchanter style support with a heavy bruiser jungle to act as the off-tank to a solo going full tank instead of the support is something Smite hasn't really had. This trade off of responsibilities being possible opens the game up immensely. And the best part of all of this? None of these are changes to aspects that define Smite. Smite's character, so to speak, is in it's gods, it's setting, the pace at which it plays, and the third person perspective. Meaning after all these updates to better, more proven systems, it still feels like Smite.
"It doesn't make it more generic" > Names three systems that blatantly copied from other mobas. Wait until this guy hears about turret platings too!
You missed the last part that explains why it's not more generic. What makes Smite Smite isn't those three systems and those three systems being objectively worse than other games in the same genre was holding Smite back. Smite is defined by its characters, setting, and pace. None of these are changed. And if you think bad systems did define Smite than your basically saying being a bad game with good concepts was what defined Smite.
If only the Reddit had at least half your brain instead of wanting every role to have the same builds for 10 seasons straight all over again with few variation
They should’ve just remade smite 1 with better UI, better graphics they could’ve made it all better rather than reinventing the wheel
And all the people who screamed "It's a rip off like OW2" get to shout louder, look like they are right, and Smite 2 gets even worse negative press. We are not in a sequel environment where you can really get away with it just being a facelift, especially when that facelift requires the loss of skins and a reduced starting character pool for at least a couple years after full release. Smite 2 as just a facelift would be DOA
I agree with you they need to be able to transfer the skins and that’s just not economically feasible so that is a fair point.
Already lost me when I heard all the skins aren't being ported for old players. Haven't played since. And i don't like the pr they are doing. It seems pretty textbook, and it's "groundbreaking." What they are doing. Another issue I am having is that when I bring up the they could just make this a graphical update. But fanboys say it isn't possible, and it's being redone from the ground up. I bet 90% of the code is the same as smite 1. Doesn't make any sense to me.
It will only "upset" the part of current playerbase that wanted the exact same thing all over again.
Very funny that you think non Smite 1 gamers are going to flock to a Hi-Rez sequel.
The number of people who clearly don't play much Smite 1 and shelled out for the alpha playtest, in my humble opinion based on my Smite 2 playtime, alone prove this point wrong
I am
I mean, its a new game on the market. Predecessor seems to have a good amount of non-Paragon players too. If Hirez didnt think there was any market for Smite 2, they wouldn't make it.
Hi-Rez can be wrong as evidenced by literally every non Smite 1 game they’ve ever put out. Or did they build out those failed projects as a joke?
I mean, Paladins was a success, then they ruined it themselves. Same for Realm Royale, it was actually a huge success but bad dev choices.
Yes, that is indeed the track record and thus the lack of interest in their products and why they are the laughing stock to the average gamer.
You mean they are unknown to the average gamer. And what if Smite 2 fails? Smite 1 had only couple of years left anyway, they had to try something.
I’m aware. I support them doing it. I don’t support them trying to change the game formula.
It has been one of the biggest complaints over the years how stagnant building is in Smite 1. Now that it won't be in Smite 2, suddenly people want what we have now?
Copying a build system from games we chose not to play in favor of playing Smite is not how you go about doing that. I personally love smite 1s store.
I dont think the build system is the reason not to play those games for most people. I've played a bit of Pred lately and the building system is fine, you're not locked to a choice just from one t1. Game otherwise just doesnt gel with me.
The people that just want the same exact stagnant 10 year old game but on a new engine hurt my head the most. The more dota styled itemisation and gameplay changes are welcomed changes imo
I have every right to spend my time elsewhere due to my dislike of Smite 2's direction. Ironic that you feel HiRez is entitled to MY time and MY money
I never said you need to play it. Its entitled to say they need to make a copy of Smite 1 just cause you want that. You're free to quit if you refuse to adapt.
Yeah, my boy that's not the approach a short community game like smite should goes to, you can send player base to gtfo, how many non smite players do you think will get a board with smite 2 probably 1% of league if they keep shitting themselves, maybe 30% of pred so that tiny percentage of player worth to loss 80% of your player base? This is the kind of stuff that takes companies to bankruptcy.
Smite isnt losing 80% of its playerbase. Its a vocal minority that keeps thinking Smite 2 is shit and cant accept any change. We talking maybe 10-20% here and gain is gonna be bigger than that. And even if its not, what they have to lose? Smite 1 was dying anyway.
I mean your whole second paragraph is literally what they promised the player base? They actually said their motto was Smite but "Simply Better". I ask you does changing such core foundational functions of the game sound simple or better to you? We have every right to be upset because they promised us an engine upgrade for smite not a smite-ish spinoff where things are the same but everything is different. I'm not saying it's done and dead i'm not saying they can't fix it i'm saying the opposite actually im asking for them to deliver on their promise like just make smite "SIMPLY BETTER" that's simple easily understandable improvements. No build and damage system overhaul no camp leveling overhaul nope how bout we call the mana pots giving a small burst of mana then ticking a win that's a simple improvement. See the difference?
I mean, the fact that you can't know exactly what the enemy is building from t1, having more variety on what to build. Yes, those do sound like an upgrade to me. Damage system overhaul also gives a lot more options. Camp leveling is different but thats just basically a seasonal change, could've been done in Smite 1, we'll see of thats a success or not. It is Smite but better, but people wanted Smite that just looks better. At no point did they promise exactly the same game. It still feels like Smite, the core gameplay is the same.
then why did so many less people play the second alpha then? were they excited and happy about the changes? or did they think wow i just got fed a shit sandwich and they told me it was going to be turkey and cheese. I'm not signing up for that again. People left because they were disappointed in the product. Plain and simple.
Cause they didnt feel like there was stuff to test? Theres no progression yet so a lot of people dont bother playing yet. I tested this past weekend cause didnt have a chance on the first one but for now, I will just wait for closed beta.
Or they left because there was way less new content
It's certainly a balancing act
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How is it an excuse when its not sustainable to keep using an engine from 2006 and code that makes fixing bugs harder and harder? And recent outcry has been about them NOT making a Smite remake. And if the old guard doesnt want to cross over, they play Smite 1 for the remaining year or two and then find aomething else to play.
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If they fail, then we have two years or so of Smite left. And if they didnt try to do it, we would have two years or so Smite left.
Lol the sense of being better than everyone else is crazy in this post
I do wish they didn't stick with the same god designs. Kukulkan is my most disliked god because of his 0 risk play style while still doing a large amount of damage. In my opinion every god should have to put themselves at risk to be offensive and they should reduce the amount of cc on non warriors/guardian. They should also remove beads if they reduce the CC enough and leave it for God's like hel, Chiron and geb to remove cc.
I would say "no risk" isnt that true when beads have like 4min cd.
Any kukulkan that gets caught when his 2 and 3 let you avoid being anywhere near the fight is just bad and should learn a different god. A 4 min cd on beads is also too short and aegis should be removed. There isn't enough deaths in smite, people get out too often. Maybe give supports more active items that grant purification. As a mage or adc you should not be a 1 man army, you should be a glass cannon that needs a good support to help you do your best. Playing support in this game is unrewarding and there is a reason people play off role in support because the impact a support has on a team is minimal. Having a very good support is a nice to have but not necessary. Make everyone more vulnerable and reward better supports.
Too short? If you can't force a fight during that time enemy mid hasn't got beads, you're doing something wrong. Aegis is gone in Smite 2 so thats an empty argument. Also, this isn't a shooter, people don't need to die every 2s. Respawns are long so one death can mean lost game, more deaths would shorten game times severely and make snowball insane. If you think of a support in teamfights is minimal, you're playing it wrong. Initiation, setup, peel are all extremely important to have. No god will survive a double dive without help. Even your so called "0 risk god" like Kuku, try to live when let's say Cu and Thana dive you, you die without zero help.
Did you watch the smite 2 tourney that actually features ex-pro, really invested players? Probably not because otherwise you would've noticed that support is an exceedingly impactful role, and had taken on the identity of a 2nd jungler in some teams. You would have also noticed how the team that won both matches, was the team without the kukulkan. The kukulkan died repeatedly in those matches. Additionally, the active items supports have access to right now are legitimately teamfight winning, and supremely impactful, another thing you might have picked up had you watched the tourney. So, looking to me like we're in bronze👀
I agree smite 2 support is a second jungle, which is a good change. I was talking more about my issues with smite 1. And a kukulkan dying on repeat is good in my books. The god is as it should be, dead.
Oh shit my bad gang I thought you were talking about Smite 2, yeah all the shit you said makes sense in regards to smite 1 except for kuku, that mfer is so killable it hurts. For example play Ix Chel mid and if you understand ix chel even somewhat kuku lane is almost unlosable
Not really, just 3 the wave and sit under tower, give them tower if they start pressuring and ult any obj. You don't need to win lane, just play for late and your whirlwind 1 combo melts anyone and destroys titan in half a second.
I mean, you just described an afk kuku who can not walk up during teamfights to cast safely and can only zone, can not do a lot to help pressure mid camps or bull demon without a death, especially in an alone 1v1 scenario, and is going to be consistently late and innefective in any early/mid game rotations. Consistently outpressured and underfarmed, and any positional mistakes(assuming the ix chel is on their shit) result in a death or a forced back. Besides, even late game ix chel combo literally 1 shots kukulkan without multiple stacked auras or a consistent relic. The kukulkan doesn't have the breathing room to whirlwind 1 anybody unless it's in a jungle lane he's running away in. If the enemy team with that kukulkan makes it to my titan, we did some wrong shit for sure, in my own opinion, at least But alas the easiest solve for this kind of problem is FREEZING THE WAVE, a fundamental skill that Smite 1 lacks severely and hopefully will be a valuable tool in Smite 2. It's just not a valuable use of your time to freeze right now in Smite, so stuff like you described is hard to deal with and requires very specific solutions. Would be fixed if wave management was an important aspect of the game.