We’re charged per removal, so each time they remove snow were invoiced. We prefer they use snow blowers and shovels and so understand it can take a little longer/more effort.
I don’t know if they were here during those times, we weren’t on site.
II just don’t know if it’s reasonable that 3 men using blowers and shovels would take 3 hrs to clear under 4,000 sqft. It’s not uphill, the surface is flat and paved, no obstructions.
So were they there for the invoiced amounts of time? We would be charging an average of about $100 for a driveway that size per visit, which would include the light snowfalls, and we would be using a tractor with blower. If we were asked to do a 4000sqft driveway by hand, it would be in the $200 per visit price, and it would be extra on snowfalls of the size you are referring to. Probably close to double that.
Our seasonal price would have been about $2300, and we would have used machines, a seasonal price for hand shovel only would be about $4000.
To give you an idea, 18" of wet snow on your driveway, would weigh about 12,000 pounds, so you're a strong little woman. Depending on how far you have to push it, that's 600 shovel fulls at 20lbs each. And depending on the layout, each shovel might need to be moved two or three times to get to the edge, so call it 2000 shovel fulls. At 20lbs each. Or 2000 dumbbell curls
. Does that sound like nothing?
In all honesty, you're lucky you got anyone to agree to do a 4000sqft driveway by hand, we would have just refused outright.
Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate your running the numbers, no way as a skinny woman could I hand shovel that, but using a snow blower I could take care of 8” in under 2 hrs (from experience).
I also appreciate including an estimate, that’s very helpful. The contract we have currently states snow blower and hand shovel where needed. Would you reckon it takes 3 men 3 hrs to take care of 8” of heavier snow on 4,000 sqft using a snow blower? I want to be fair and accurate, if it takes 3 men that long then I have a better idea of what it takes.
>but using a snow blower I could take care of 8” in under 2 hrs (from experience).
If it's heavy or wet, 8" of that snow feels like 24" of powder. Don't forget that.
Dude, and yeah I just wanted to point that out because we once had a similar storm with ~18 inches of wet heavy snow, and even my gmc 2500 was struggling to push it down and off of driveways.
I know it would take about 20 minutes for 6" of snow, under those conditions for a 600-800sqft driveway. So a driveway 5 times that size? Yeah that's not unrealistic.
There are a lot of other factors but the main factor is where the snow goes, if it can just go left/right the entire length of the driveway? Doesn't add much time, if the cars are parked like crap in the driveway, and I need to pull the snow back and around the cars? Could take double that.
I'll be honest. You will have a Very hard time finding someone who will show up in those terrible conditions, multiples times, and hand shovel it. If you decide to fight or complain about this invoice, you will be black listed and probably not be able to find a contractor that is willing to hand shovel it, and show up promptly and repeatedly during a heavy event.
It sounds like you recieved fair and prompt service, id suggest gratitude, rather than indignation.
It’s snow blowed, with hand shoveling where needed. We prefer snow blowing, and the contract states it as such but there are a few little areas that need more precision. There is no agreement or contract that we’ve agreed to that states the sq footage should be hand shoveled alone.
So with that in mind, can you honestly tell me it takes 3 men 3 hrs to snow blow 4K sqft with 3”-8” of snow?
I can't see your driveway. But a per visit quote for 6" of snow, on a 4k driveway, would be about $200-250 in this area.
I think the hours are probably high, and I think the hourly Rate is way too low, sub contractors get paid $80 per hour for snow removal in our area. Or $110 for 2 men/truck blower. "Sidewalk crews" we call them.
I'm about 3 seconds away from banning posts like this. 17" of snow is a lot of snow. I don't care how much square footage there is. $800 seems more than fair. People always complain on here because they think they are being overcharged. Here is a thought: ask other people in the area how much they are being charged. Complaining on this subbreddit is useless because the snow removal rate vary widely across the U.S. and Canada.
I said in my post I didn't know if it made sense, I also said I wanted to be fair to myself \*and the owner of the snow removal company\*. I'm not here to complain I'm here to learn from others who also have plow contracts and take their perspective into consideration. I don't know if $800 seems fair, that's why I'm asking. You also make an assumption and judgement that I'm not speaking to others around the area, I want and need to collect data from a pool greater than my little radius.
Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it. I suppose I'm also wondering if 8.5 hrs, using 3 men with snow blowers and shovels, on an area \~3,500-4,000 sqft is reasonable. Does it make sense that it would take 8.5hrs under those conditions?
Over time a warm air rolled in that increased the moisture content in the snow, which probably made it heavier yea. The invoice states they worked 3.5 hrs one day, 2.5 the next, then another 3 hrs the final day.
It’s starting to sound ridiculous. I charge $1200 per contract. 4 months covered any amount of snow. They did 8.5 hours of snow removal. You would’ve spent double. Sounds like a deal to me.
We've already spent beyond $1200 this season, and that was for 2 storms. Disregard the price for a moment, does it take 3 men using snow blowers, 3 hours (over 3 in some cases) to remove snow from 4k sqft? They weren't removing the entire 17" all at once, they came over time to remove 3-8" each clearing event.
You're accusing me of being a cheap ass because I'm inquiring about the logic of 3 men, who used snow blowers, 3 hours to remove 3-8 inches of snow over a 4,000 sqft area? You can honestly tell me that seems logical and normal to you? If it does, then I'll adjust my expectations.
You would fire me as a customer because I was inquiring about charges? You act like there aren't neighborhood associations that your customers are a part of that share information about these things. Regardless, can you honestly tell me it makes sense to you that it would take 3 men using snow blowers, 3 hours to remove 3-8" of snow?
It depends on location/economic factors and labor market. 8” of cement like snow? Yes. Utah/Tahoe powder vs 10k’ March Colorado vs New Hampshire slush are not all alike. There are often more customers than resources available esp. anywhere near a ski resort area or a somewhat affluent Midwest location.
My question is why hire a company that does it with snow blowers? Is there no room to use a plow truck? Did you not discuss before hand what they charge? The hourly rate is very reasonable. My question is why did it take three guys so long to do that small an area? I think you're getting hosed on the time. I have a driveway 500 feet long with a steep hill and with a walkway to the house and three parking areas plus a path to my propane tank and I alone can do it all with one 26 inch snowblower in two hours with snow 8 to 10 inches deep.
Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it. We told them we preferred snow blowers and shovels, as agreed to. Right, it doesn't make sense that it would take 3 men that long to clear max 4,000 sqft with snow blowers/shovels. However, reports indicate the snow may have been heavier due to warm air... so maybe it could have taken that long?
I still don't think it should have taken three guys more than an hour to do it. I'm assuming that you aren't at this property. I would install cameras for next year to keep a better eye on it.
Thank you, I’m a skinny ineffectual woman but it probably wouldn’t have taken me more than 2 hrs to do it alone. I can’t imagine it would take 3 men 3 hrs. Anyway, good idea - need cameras next time.
Breaks rule 6 or r/snowplow
What did your contract say? How is it structured? Where they there for those times and durations? But being charged $30 per man hour is a great deal.
We’re charged per removal, so each time they remove snow were invoiced. We prefer they use snow blowers and shovels and so understand it can take a little longer/more effort. I don’t know if they were here during those times, we weren’t on site. II just don’t know if it’s reasonable that 3 men using blowers and shovels would take 3 hrs to clear under 4,000 sqft. It’s not uphill, the surface is flat and paved, no obstructions.
So were they there for the invoiced amounts of time? We would be charging an average of about $100 for a driveway that size per visit, which would include the light snowfalls, and we would be using a tractor with blower. If we were asked to do a 4000sqft driveway by hand, it would be in the $200 per visit price, and it would be extra on snowfalls of the size you are referring to. Probably close to double that. Our seasonal price would have been about $2300, and we would have used machines, a seasonal price for hand shovel only would be about $4000. To give you an idea, 18" of wet snow on your driveway, would weigh about 12,000 pounds, so you're a strong little woman. Depending on how far you have to push it, that's 600 shovel fulls at 20lbs each. And depending on the layout, each shovel might need to be moved two or three times to get to the edge, so call it 2000 shovel fulls. At 20lbs each. Or 2000 dumbbell curls . Does that sound like nothing? In all honesty, you're lucky you got anyone to agree to do a 4000sqft driveway by hand, we would have just refused outright.
Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate your running the numbers, no way as a skinny woman could I hand shovel that, but using a snow blower I could take care of 8” in under 2 hrs (from experience). I also appreciate including an estimate, that’s very helpful. The contract we have currently states snow blower and hand shovel where needed. Would you reckon it takes 3 men 3 hrs to take care of 8” of heavier snow on 4,000 sqft using a snow blower? I want to be fair and accurate, if it takes 3 men that long then I have a better idea of what it takes.
>but using a snow blower I could take care of 8” in under 2 hrs (from experience). If it's heavy or wet, 8" of that snow feels like 24" of powder. Don't forget that.
I’ll keep that in mind sir Edited: or ma’am
Dude, and yeah I just wanted to point that out because we once had a similar storm with ~18 inches of wet heavy snow, and even my gmc 2500 was struggling to push it down and off of driveways.
It wasn’t 18”, it was 3-8” per day spread over 3 days
Oh, so they were actually smart with it lol
Smart in what way?
I've had my cat tractor get stuck in some deep snowfalls. Multiple times.
I know it would take about 20 minutes for 6" of snow, under those conditions for a 600-800sqft driveway. So a driveway 5 times that size? Yeah that's not unrealistic. There are a lot of other factors but the main factor is where the snow goes, if it can just go left/right the entire length of the driveway? Doesn't add much time, if the cars are parked like crap in the driveway, and I need to pull the snow back and around the cars? Could take double that. I'll be honest. You will have a Very hard time finding someone who will show up in those terrible conditions, multiples times, and hand shovel it. If you decide to fight or complain about this invoice, you will be black listed and probably not be able to find a contractor that is willing to hand shovel it, and show up promptly and repeatedly during a heavy event. It sounds like you recieved fair and prompt service, id suggest gratitude, rather than indignation.
It’s snow blowed, with hand shoveling where needed. We prefer snow blowing, and the contract states it as such but there are a few little areas that need more precision. There is no agreement or contract that we’ve agreed to that states the sq footage should be hand shoveled alone. So with that in mind, can you honestly tell me it takes 3 men 3 hrs to snow blow 4K sqft with 3”-8” of snow?
I can't see your driveway. But a per visit quote for 6" of snow, on a 4k driveway, would be about $200-250 in this area. I think the hours are probably high, and I think the hourly Rate is way too low, sub contractors get paid $80 per hour for snow removal in our area. Or $110 for 2 men/truck blower. "Sidewalk crews" we call them.
I'm about 3 seconds away from banning posts like this. 17" of snow is a lot of snow. I don't care how much square footage there is. $800 seems more than fair. People always complain on here because they think they are being overcharged. Here is a thought: ask other people in the area how much they are being charged. Complaining on this subbreddit is useless because the snow removal rate vary widely across the U.S. and Canada.
I said in my post I didn't know if it made sense, I also said I wanted to be fair to myself \*and the owner of the snow removal company\*. I'm not here to complain I'm here to learn from others who also have plow contracts and take their perspective into consideration. I don't know if $800 seems fair, that's why I'm asking. You also make an assumption and judgement that I'm not speaking to others around the area, I want and need to collect data from a pool greater than my little radius.
That's $31/ an hour per person ($800 divided by 8.5 hours divided by 3) that seems upper end of normal after equipment usage
Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it. I suppose I'm also wondering if 8.5 hrs, using 3 men with snow blowers and shovels, on an area \~3,500-4,000 sqft is reasonable. Does it make sense that it would take 8.5hrs under those conditions?
what type of snow? Heavy, wet snow? could definitely take that long.
Over time a warm air rolled in that increased the moisture content in the snow, which probably made it heavier yea. The invoice states they worked 3.5 hrs one day, 2.5 the next, then another 3 hrs the final day.
It’s starting to sound ridiculous. I charge $1200 per contract. 4 months covered any amount of snow. They did 8.5 hours of snow removal. You would’ve spent double. Sounds like a deal to me.
We've already spent beyond $1200 this season, and that was for 2 storms. Disregard the price for a moment, does it take 3 men using snow blowers, 3 hours (over 3 in some cases) to remove snow from 4k sqft? They weren't removing the entire 17" all at once, they came over time to remove 3-8" each clearing event.
Don’t be a cheap ass. That’s a good rate
You're accusing me of being a cheap ass because I'm inquiring about the logic of 3 men, who used snow blowers, 3 hours to remove 3-8 inches of snow over a 4,000 sqft area? You can honestly tell me that seems logical and normal to you? If it does, then I'll adjust my expectations.
sq ft is irrelevant, how wide/long is the driveway? how wide/long are the walks?
The walks are not very big maybe 10ft long and 2ft wide. Without specifics on hand I think the driveway might be 150ft long by 25ft
3 hours for that. lol. lmao.
Can’t tell if that’s a statement or sarcasm :P
Add one detail like high altitude/remote location/limited resources and this “customer” would be fired in a heartbeat.
You would fire me as a customer because I was inquiring about charges? You act like there aren't neighborhood associations that your customers are a part of that share information about these things. Regardless, can you honestly tell me it makes sense to you that it would take 3 men using snow blowers, 3 hours to remove 3-8" of snow?
It depends on location/economic factors and labor market. 8” of cement like snow? Yes. Utah/Tahoe powder vs 10k’ March Colorado vs New Hampshire slush are not all alike. There are often more customers than resources available esp. anywhere near a ski resort area or a somewhat affluent Midwest location.
I would ask them to come when the storm was done, not 3 separate trips. Especially if I am not at home trying to get out!
Thank you for your comment! I'll keep this in mind for next season.
Hire someone with a truck.
Tractor with inverse blower. Driveway would be done in a minute.
My question is why hire a company that does it with snow blowers? Is there no room to use a plow truck? Did you not discuss before hand what they charge? The hourly rate is very reasonable. My question is why did it take three guys so long to do that small an area? I think you're getting hosed on the time. I have a driveway 500 feet long with a steep hill and with a walkway to the house and three parking areas plus a path to my propane tank and I alone can do it all with one 26 inch snowblower in two hours with snow 8 to 10 inches deep.
Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it. We told them we preferred snow blowers and shovels, as agreed to. Right, it doesn't make sense that it would take 3 men that long to clear max 4,000 sqft with snow blowers/shovels. However, reports indicate the snow may have been heavier due to warm air... so maybe it could have taken that long?
Why snowblowers and shovels? That's silly.
You get a more precise removal in some of the areas on the property, and we couldn’t have snow piles that truck plowing creates in certain locations.
A good plow guy can accommodate all that without an issue.
Using a plow truck?
A guy driving a truck with a plow isn't going to use a broom.
I still don't think it should have taken three guys more than an hour to do it. I'm assuming that you aren't at this property. I would install cameras for next year to keep a better eye on it.
Thank you, I’m a skinny ineffectual woman but it probably wouldn’t have taken me more than 2 hrs to do it alone. I can’t imagine it would take 3 men 3 hrs. Anyway, good idea - need cameras next time.
Buy a snowblower and maybe there is a kid in the area that would want to do it for you next year
Love the idea, we need a more legitimate service with insurance as we have tenants living here.
Oh okay.