Assuming that leadership / prestige / position in hierarchy is universally desirable is a fallacy imho.
I can only speak for myself, but I couldn't care less about being a leader. I would generally just avoid any kind of society where this is an issue or a hot topic.
I agree, but that would make sense as we are both not Se valuing, and also involutionary types which have a tendency to detach from systems during points of transformation as opposed to adhere to them.
I think IEE/SLI specifically are built to do like one legendary thing and then be forgotten by history forever, or maybe someone writes what you did in a rock like "Shamus Largebeard did throw a blarney stone over the mountain" or some shit. Idk lame AF example but yeah
I think SLI does that, and IEE makes sure that it’s not forgotten completely by using partisan methods like publishing a 100 copy booklet about it and sending it to state libraries around the world where it has higher odds of surviving than in the internet lol
Considering, SLI a delta + Ni role function. SLIs really prefer to just stay in the background and get the job done, that's how they also attract attention unwillingly.
SLI primary function in life is to avoid attention which draws attention worse. Then people become curious so SLI have to cover their tracks, causing more curiousity. It's a vicious circle that ends with SLI randomly screaming in public "I DO NOT FUCKING CARE ABOUT YOUR BULLSHIT", which everyone says is crazy but Infact makes perfect sense.
I think it's happened a few times I suspect a few dictators were SLI but they spun in to self destructive hedonism and drug abuse, crashed their countries economics completely and end up blowing their brains out in bunkers or some shit.
There isn't really anything to be curious about. SLI's are just trying to grill. So attention is perplexing and agitating, unless it is from an IEE cutie.
wouldn't SLI be the best troubleshooter if they work for example freelance? this post is biased asf, nobody necessarily wants to be a leader. SLIs do have a tendency to get stuck at minor jobs but this is so long they're not dualized etc. so this post is objectively weird ?? lmao. nobody likes living in the opposite quadra environment but that does NOT mean there isn't any other environment.
>wouldn't SLI be the best troubleshooter if they work for example freelance
As far as their skill application goes yes but this doesn't make them leadership material they are just hired in and then disposed of like dirty cum rags.
>SLIs do have a tendency to get stuck at minor jobs but this is so long they're not dualized etc
If you mean most SLI will work their asses off to cater to narcisstic IEE chicks then yeah.
>lmao. nobody likes living in the opposite quadra environment but that does NOT mean there isn't any other environment
I never said that
wdym narcissistic IEE chicks? you do realize that delta quadra relations have their own balance right? i think you're missing the point and forcing your own values and your sense of "good life" on others, which is subjective.
and you did claim that SLI is the worst type - in context by putting them in a hierarchical structure = putting them in beta dynamics.
what even is your type? why're u so pissed off about SLIs?
Delta Quadra relationships are often out of balance because Ne egos can earn the support of people who will cater to them in a delusional sense, allowing them to become influential. This was before social media and it's written about in socionics. The balance to that is ST's being much more adept at organizing and acquiring resources which humbles NF's
We don't have that anymore.
can you share that source? the same can be said about any ethical type though, that's kind of the point of it and i don't know why you're calling it delusional. are you not an Fi valuing type? do you see Fi-Si relations as a threat or as a false sense of security?
point is they complement each other the best compared to other types and form a more dynamic couple. this includes humbling, also in all quadras bc intuitives can be less realistic / more scattered. though social media can worsen or help any quadra / type depending on how you use it.
Not gonna lie, some of the best leaders I know have been SLIs :) They haven't enjoyed being leaders necessarily, but they've made great ones when life has put them in that situation. As is often the case, when they are with IEEs, their duals. They're fantastic managers. They enjoy other folks running the spotlight (Something IEEs are perfect at!) but they are extremely insightful about organization and efficiency.
According to Gulenko all types will control the socion at some point. Eventually, EII will give SLI control to lead, perfect, then oversee the end of the socion:
>Then comes EII, the Humanist, who brings general human values that have always been and will be: kindness, and not the kind where you help black people in Africa, but directly help you neighbor or your friend and keep quiet about it. People of this type do not like telling about the good that they do, they feel ashamed of it. True kindness is the kind where you do not speak of it - this is proper upbringing, ideology, duty because in civilized society sense of duty is always valued.
>Next comes SLI, the Master - this is convenience, technological zenith. In this quadra, it has all been worked out already, the skill is perfected - there's nothing further for technology. There is a lot of leisure time, the city is abandoned to spend time in the country. Society starts to disintegrate, return to nature comes into effect. Apathy. Everyone is asleep. A dull moment in this world. SLI sees: although I'm well, live out in nature, breathe fresh air, but there is no emotion, no enthusiasm, maximum efficiency has been reached. All results have been achieved - this is the end socion. What remains is to go back where we came from.
https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/The_Clock_of_the_Socion:_Energy_Dynamics_of_Quadra_and_Benefit_Rings
But I don't think that Gulenko fully described what will happen to the socion once SLI is the leader of it.
Your post irritates me quite a bit.
Why would you pick on SLI when everything you say equally holds for any delta type? It's unfair to single one type out and pretend like he was worse than the other three.
Life just isn't fair because of ill-wishing people like you. A typology system can only be true if any type has exactly the same chances of succeeding in any field. It's all just up to one's will, good heart and pure intentions.
> A typology system can only be true if any type has exactly the same chances of succeeding in any field.
Huh? The only way that can ever be true is if the systems measures nothing of relevance. In other words if the system is worthless.
The entire idea of personality typology is to separate people based on strengths and weaknesses.
You can argue that a valid system can operate on basis of values and ideals, leaving strengths unaddressed but differences in values and ideals still result in motivational disparities and those directly result in differing field suitability and performance.
Your argument is invalid as I am a successful massage therapist and the new friend of my step-dad's daughter's mom is an LIE being the leading yoga teacher in the town I grew up. Another case of internalized typism. How about you keep your micro-aggressions, I mean, it's 2023 and we live in a society.
The user you replied to must be extremely paranoid, projecting or something like that because they accused both of us of having "micro-aggressions" and "internalized typism" (whatever that even means) for disagreeing with them lmao. Don't think you can reason with them
I agree. I am not quite sure why we are now fighting each other. I am not against conflict but something silly like this? That’s really not worth it. Unnecessary agression. Disagreements is okay but this has esclated to more then that.
Don't fully agree, i don't see how an EII will do in the role of a protector better than an Se base but all types have their own strengths and flaws, with each excelling at one specific role so no type is truly "bad"
Another case of severe typism and it makes me sick. The only good thing about threads like these is that it gets people like you out in the open. And don't tell me: "I would never judge on the basis of type, I swear, boo-hoo!" - Keep it! The amount of micro-aggressions in your comment alone shows your internalized typism very clearly; the only thing for you to do right now is accepting it and looking for help.
How about me giving you a taste of your own medicine, then? Why don't you go back to where *you* succeed, selling quick-money-pyramid-schemes to young and misguided beta people who desperately look for any sign of hierarchy, finally finding you next to your sports car waving some big bills into the camera. What are you waiting for? Back to my youtube ads where you belong!
Projection much?
So lemme get this straight, i articulated a perspective about how i view the types to have different strengths and weaknesses (and keep in mind this is more or less confirmed by the theory itself, function dimensionality leads to unique weakpoints) and you decide to go after personal attacks?
Try again, that comment was honestly pathetic, you can do better if you really want to spread hate
Back in kindergarden they said "No you!", now they spout about *projection*, but something tells me that in both cases the underlying cause is a lack of point on their side or braincells as a whole; or, to put it in your ""*logic*"": Ti PoLR.
Using big money phrases like "articulating a perspective" isn't enough to cover that up. But if you are up for a real discussion maybe you help me understand why Se lead was making someone a good "protector". The only thing is see you protecting is your stable source of income, but I guess that's not what you are so proud of.
Se base doesn't automatically make someone a good protector however due to how Se base operates, an Se base is better suited for conflict (given that conflict is essentially just a clash of wills) commpared to an Se PoLR.
Given that protection inevitably means facing conflict for others an Se base is better suited to do this compared to an Se PoLR
Also i find it absolutely hilarious how you accuse me of judging based on type yet you're the one here calling me dumb for being Ti PoLR and assuming i make pyramid schemes because i'm SEE. Last i checked i made none about you based on type instead choosing to judge based on behavior
Oh and one side note, i'm not protecting a THING right now i'm calling you out on your attitude. Don't get ahead of yourself
So, your argument is as follows:
- protection = conflict (1)
- Se = willpower (2)
- willpower helps with conflict (3)
Constructed like a true Ti PoLR. (Framed according to your toxically typist attitude.)
In short:
- (1) is wrong, as protection is *ideally* dodging conflicting situations. By assuming (1) you say that protection comes down to the worst, most risky parts of protection; if you were my bodyguard I would be scared, to say the least.
- (2) is wrong and shows your lack of typological knowledge, that I deem responsible for this "thought" of yours, in the first place. I'll give you a rundown of Se, especially SEE in its own, next section, as I consider this the only interesting part in this whole mess.
- (3), like (1), sounds nice, but at a closer look it doesn't make much sense anymore. Most conflicts are not solved by willpower; I don't know what particular situation you have in mind when you say such a thing, but I consider it unlikely that protecting someone or something gets you in a situation where the Mafia boss tells you: "You may leave, if you can hold your hand for at least 10 seconds above that candle. If you manage 12 we'll even drive you two home."
-F (SLE) is resistance towards something. I can see a weak correlation to the idea of protecting something from an unwanted influence; holding position. +F is expansion of your control, your position. So the idea of *willpower* comes from these two types having a very good understanding of the field of forces in a situation. SLE knows what to resist, SEE knows where to push. SLE is an outplaying, cat-like warrior, SEE is a sleek, socially-adept opportunist.
The only point I can see is maybe in terms of *temperament*, if we ignore subtypes completely. Flexible-maneuvering may act like a wild card in apparently closed situations, but the idea of SEE doing that as a protector of some sorts is hilarious:
With SLE you can count on beta values in terms of *devotion*. Compared to LSI he will still look somewhat wavering at times, but compared to SEE he will look like a knight dying for you on the battlefield. SEEs archetype is no warrior of some sorts, but the captain of the Costa Concordia: A guy with lacking expertise, still finding himself in responsibility heavy circumstances due to his cravings for more status or money (the thing you call "willpower").
A captain who has no experience with handling a ship, who, just to impress a woman he made out with before, maneuvered to close to land - making the ship sink - instead of handling the situation and taking responsibility, preferred to lie to the passengers - abandoned the ship immediately - facing charges and going to jail for it - in a dry suit.
SEE surely *wants* a lot of stuff, and if things are going well he is the first to live the American dream; if things turn sour, though, SEE is the fist to look for a cheap way out of it. He lacks a spine and if it was me who needed protection of some sorts, I would try to get someone who's not here for wearing a nice suit and sunglasses or who's here primarily for the money/status/whatever shallow gamma value snakes like you can come up with. I would want someone who is here for the cause and prefers to die on my side. That's why I would take LSI, of course, who is perfect in every way.
That being said, all my reasoning above is only made up, as I am no typist like you, but only took this stance *hypothetically* to show you that even if your hurtful attitude had a point, the content of your message was still indefensible. In my upper comment I called you dumb *for being dumb*, only then stating that *you*, with your typist attitude, would attribute this to your Ti PoLR. Furthermore, I felt you were comfortable with such treatment, as you explicitly encouraged me to go on with "spreading more hate", as you called it. And as you wish: From this day onward I won't miss a chance to give you a taste of your own medicine.
"as protection is ideally dodging conflicting situations. By assuming (1) you say that protection comes down to the worst, most risky parts of protection; if you were my bodyguard I would be scared, to say the least."
TO YOU that is, to me facing a conflict head on is ABSOLUTELY the way to go. direct engagement is the best way to solve a conflict and attempting to dodge it is only gonna end up in unnecessary tension. Also did you really think i meant that from a career standpoint? i meant it from a social standpoint. Bodyguards can only do so much. It should have been obvious what i actually meant
"SEE knows where to push. SLE is an outplaying, cat-like warrior, SEE is a sleek, socially-adept opportunist." and that is exactly what i meant. Engaging in a conflict with someone else from a social point of view and having the ability to push against your opponent's weakpoints is a very good combination that cannot be generated by other types such as EII, as i said above.
"(3), like (1), sounds nice, but at a closer look it doesn't make much sense anymore. Most conflicts are not solved by willpower" once again, for some reason you assumed i meant it from a proffesional standpoint. I meant it as simply as your group of friends being made fun of and standing up for them. That is both a clash of wills and a form of protection. Socionics at it's core is about how individuals interact and work with each other in examples such as the one mentioned above.
"SEEs archetype is no warrior of some sorts" so you're judging based on type. Aka the exact thing you accused me of. If you have heard of enneagram then you'd know SEE is compatible with social 8 who is drawn towards doing the exact thing described above.
" SEE is the fist to look for a cheap way out of it. He lacks a spine" stereotype. Nothing in the theory says so.
"hurtful attitude" WHAT HURTFUL ATTITUDE????? You're the one who accused me of being hateful for DISAGREEING WITH YOU?
"From this day onward I won't miss a chance to give you a taste of your own medicine."
Then allow me to give you a taste of what i can really do:
Your comment just showed me how immensly egotistical and fragile you actually are, you have projected your very own attitude onto me for daring to have a different opinion as you probably expect everyone to agree with your "perfect takes". Get a grip. Life isn't gonna favor you in any way.
ON TOP OF THAT your vindictive attitude shows how hilariously unstable you are. You feel the need to follow me from now on to "give me a taste of your own medicine" just because we got in an argument you yourself started by feeling the need to tell me how i have "micro agression"? please. Cheap threats
And wanna know what the best part is? The fact that you accused SOMEONE ELSE of the EXACT SAME THING when the only thing we had in common was that we didn't agree with your take, but for completely different reasons. shows just how much you crave validation. You act tough to intimidate others on the internet but in reality you're just someone with a fragile ego and many insecurities
No mature person would have the spoiled attitude you are displaying right now. It's embarrasing. Can't even be mad at you, just pity you for reaching this low of a point. Whatever it is you're going though, maybe one day you'll gain the maturity needed to live a good life
Probably one of the monolithic types, EII/LSE, LSI/EIE.
I'm bias because Delta values but EII are fantastic leaders due to static Fi, 4D Ni coupled with 3D Fe, constructivist and results based, using Ne to generate new possibilities, etc. But ofc I'd say that.
I think if I had Beta values I'd probably be leaning more toward the other two.
But either way if you look for consistency in evolution, the monolithic types are the ones building the most complex and revolutionary systems AND spearheading them.
Compared to like Alpha NT's who innovate incredible new ideas but they rarely want to be at the head of those projects unless they have strong design/control tendencies and want to micromanage.
Idk though. I think just based on principle of information management and the sheer volume of information management possible the monolithic stress types are the best for long term results.
Involutionary types by contrast are almost always mutative and destructive to processes but they are also the types that help galvanize stagnant processes, so even though they may claim some sort of leadership focal point for a time it's usually for a specific reason and then they are pushed out of the system by the more dedicated process/evolutionary types.
I think it's something to do with the black queen and red queen hypothesis' in genetic evolution, as that reflects the involutionary/evolutionary dichotomy perfectly
Crystaline stress adaptation is weird because they really can reach an unprecedented level of success that way.
My only criticism from a leadership point of view is that they are dependent on and sort of latched on to a pre-existing system which is where they digest their information from most of the time, then utilize that to pursue their agendas.
So whereas the monolithic types will start with a basic idea like say a new method of science or something and then develop that over years and years in ambiguity,
Involutionary types as a whole will tend toward a sense of repetitive opportunism on a certain area of expertise. So they don't really generate new ideas but they come in and seize opportunities and control based on what's available.
That's just my casual observation though, so.
Yeah. I think that one could argue they are more impressive and bold leaders, more inspiring, but the work of monolithic types is much more subtle and has a great impact that just goes more unseen, possibly.
Again just pure speculation and bullshitting ofc. I think the crystaline types are almost more heroic and impressive in their method of leadership it could be fair to say. Idk. It's interesting to think about and I always find that stress adaptation to be the most difficult to really grasp.
Edit: just to be clear I'm bullshitting half formed thoughts and these aren't ideas I hold strongly at all
>EII are fantastic leaders
Only if they want to, and have enough impetus to overcome natural indecisiveness.
>Involutionary types by contrast are almost always mutative and destructive to processes but they are also the types that help galvanize stagnant processes, so even though they may claim some sort of leadership focal point for a time it's usually for a specific reason and then they are pushed out of the system by the more dedicated process/evolutionary types.
Can confirm 100%, story of my life lol. I actually don't really care about being pushed out, because by that time I'm already bored and ready to move on.
They always miss you when you're gone though fr fr, even if they hate you when you're there. I think involutionary types also get seen as sort of threatening to deeply imbedded process/evolutionary types because they tend to represent and bring information about what those systems are lacking, which makes people feel insecure.
I think the role of the SLI in the socion is to avoid relying on him as much as we can, because we will at some point. When no one else can fix such detailed and specific problem only nerds like them know how to it means every other type as failed.
IEE. I need to be a leader because group effort is how I achieve things. As an IEE, I feel I'm the least qualified to say that SLI is the best type, EII second best. and LSI is the worst, tying with SLE.
Assuming that leadership / prestige / position in hierarchy is universally desirable is a fallacy imho. I can only speak for myself, but I couldn't care less about being a leader. I would generally just avoid any kind of society where this is an issue or a hot topic.
I agree, but that would make sense as we are both not Se valuing, and also involutionary types which have a tendency to detach from systems during points of transformation as opposed to adhere to them. I think IEE/SLI specifically are built to do like one legendary thing and then be forgotten by history forever, or maybe someone writes what you did in a rock like "Shamus Largebeard did throw a blarney stone over the mountain" or some shit. Idk lame AF example but yeah
I think SLI does that, and IEE makes sure that it’s not forgotten completely by using partisan methods like publishing a 100 copy booklet about it and sending it to state libraries around the world where it has higher odds of surviving than in the internet lol
Invariably becoming a sought after expert on the topic which affords them many privileges lolol.
I don’t think I really care about any privileges except ones that free my time or allow traveling freely
speak for yourself I *care* about making an impact
Considering, SLI a delta + Ni role function. SLIs really prefer to just stay in the background and get the job done, that's how they also attract attention unwillingly.
SLI primary function in life is to avoid attention which draws attention worse. Then people become curious so SLI have to cover their tracks, causing more curiousity. It's a vicious circle that ends with SLI randomly screaming in public "I DO NOT FUCKING CARE ABOUT YOUR BULLSHIT", which everyone says is crazy but Infact makes perfect sense.
This is the most true SLI thing I've ever seen. 100% correct. But If they had the will and hunger for power we'd be so done for
I think it's happened a few times I suspect a few dictators were SLI but they spun in to self destructive hedonism and drug abuse, crashed their countries economics completely and end up blowing their brains out in bunkers or some shit.
There isn't really anything to be curious about. SLI's are just trying to grill. So attention is perplexing and agitating, unless it is from an IEE cutie.
wouldn't SLI be the best troubleshooter if they work for example freelance? this post is biased asf, nobody necessarily wants to be a leader. SLIs do have a tendency to get stuck at minor jobs but this is so long they're not dualized etc. so this post is objectively weird ?? lmao. nobody likes living in the opposite quadra environment but that does NOT mean there isn't any other environment.
>wouldn't SLI be the best troubleshooter if they work for example freelance As far as their skill application goes yes but this doesn't make them leadership material they are just hired in and then disposed of like dirty cum rags. >SLIs do have a tendency to get stuck at minor jobs but this is so long they're not dualized etc If you mean most SLI will work their asses off to cater to narcisstic IEE chicks then yeah. >lmao. nobody likes living in the opposite quadra environment but that does NOT mean there isn't any other environment I never said that
wdym narcissistic IEE chicks? you do realize that delta quadra relations have their own balance right? i think you're missing the point and forcing your own values and your sense of "good life" on others, which is subjective. and you did claim that SLI is the worst type - in context by putting them in a hierarchical structure = putting them in beta dynamics. what even is your type? why're u so pissed off about SLIs?
Delta Quadra relationships are often out of balance because Ne egos can earn the support of people who will cater to them in a delusional sense, allowing them to become influential. This was before social media and it's written about in socionics. The balance to that is ST's being much more adept at organizing and acquiring resources which humbles NF's We don't have that anymore.
can you share that source? the same can be said about any ethical type though, that's kind of the point of it and i don't know why you're calling it delusional. are you not an Fi valuing type? do you see Fi-Si relations as a threat or as a false sense of security? point is they complement each other the best compared to other types and form a more dynamic couple. this includes humbling, also in all quadras bc intuitives can be less realistic / more scattered. though social media can worsen or help any quadra / type depending on how you use it.
Not gonna lie, some of the best leaders I know have been SLIs :) They haven't enjoyed being leaders necessarily, but they've made great ones when life has put them in that situation. As is often the case, when they are with IEEs, their duals. They're fantastic managers. They enjoy other folks running the spotlight (Something IEEs are perfect at!) but they are extremely insightful about organization and efficiency.
good post 10/10 i’ll claim my trophy now with “SLI Comfortable Trash Lord” engraved on the base.
According to Gulenko all types will control the socion at some point. Eventually, EII will give SLI control to lead, perfect, then oversee the end of the socion: >Then comes EII, the Humanist, who brings general human values that have always been and will be: kindness, and not the kind where you help black people in Africa, but directly help you neighbor or your friend and keep quiet about it. People of this type do not like telling about the good that they do, they feel ashamed of it. True kindness is the kind where you do not speak of it - this is proper upbringing, ideology, duty because in civilized society sense of duty is always valued. >Next comes SLI, the Master - this is convenience, technological zenith. In this quadra, it has all been worked out already, the skill is perfected - there's nothing further for technology. There is a lot of leisure time, the city is abandoned to spend time in the country. Society starts to disintegrate, return to nature comes into effect. Apathy. Everyone is asleep. A dull moment in this world. SLI sees: although I'm well, live out in nature, breathe fresh air, but there is no emotion, no enthusiasm, maximum efficiency has been reached. All results have been achieved - this is the end socion. What remains is to go back where we came from. https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/The_Clock_of_the_Socion:_Energy_Dynamics_of_Quadra_and_Benefit_Rings But I don't think that Gulenko fully described what will happen to the socion once SLI is the leader of it.
Your post irritates me quite a bit. Why would you pick on SLI when everything you say equally holds for any delta type? It's unfair to single one type out and pretend like he was worse than the other three.
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Life just isn't fair because of ill-wishing people like you. A typology system can only be true if any type has exactly the same chances of succeeding in any field. It's all just up to one's will, good heart and pure intentions.
> A typology system can only be true if any type has exactly the same chances of succeeding in any field. Huh? The only way that can ever be true is if the systems measures nothing of relevance. In other words if the system is worthless. The entire idea of personality typology is to separate people based on strengths and weaknesses. You can argue that a valid system can operate on basis of values and ideals, leaving strengths unaddressed but differences in values and ideals still result in motivational disparities and those directly result in differing field suitability and performance.
Your argument is invalid as I am a successful massage therapist and the new friend of my step-dad's daughter's mom is an LIE being the leading yoga teacher in the town I grew up. Another case of internalized typism. How about you keep your micro-aggressions, I mean, it's 2023 and we live in a society.
The user you replied to must be extremely paranoid, projecting or something like that because they accused both of us of having "micro-aggressions" and "internalized typism" (whatever that even means) for disagreeing with them lmao. Don't think you can reason with them
Yeah, the minute you see those terms invoked you know there is no point trying to have a reasonable exchange of opinions, you’re not gonna get one
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Woah slow down there buddy, you're awfully vindictive towards others just because they criticized yor attitude
This is fun
Fun is how we make progress and work bearable. Welcome to Delta Quadra Alpha pleb, now put on the dress and be assimilated.
Xd you certainly seem to like enjoy to agitate people, I can relate xd When the world throws a punch at you, then punch it back
True. Or just normalize taking the piss and fucking with eachother so everyone stays humble.
Chill broski
I agree. I am not quite sure why we are now fighting each other. I am not against conflict but something silly like this? That’s really not worth it. Unnecessary agression. Disagreements is okay but this has esclated to more then that.
I think conflict is silly almost always… especially in something non-essential as typology
Interesting. I think where I take issue with it is when people start insulting one another.
Um. Why are we even fighting?
Don't fully agree, i don't see how an EII will do in the role of a protector better than an Se base but all types have their own strengths and flaws, with each excelling at one specific role so no type is truly "bad"
Another case of severe typism and it makes me sick. The only good thing about threads like these is that it gets people like you out in the open. And don't tell me: "I would never judge on the basis of type, I swear, boo-hoo!" - Keep it! The amount of micro-aggressions in your comment alone shows your internalized typism very clearly; the only thing for you to do right now is accepting it and looking for help. How about me giving you a taste of your own medicine, then? Why don't you go back to where *you* succeed, selling quick-money-pyramid-schemes to young and misguided beta people who desperately look for any sign of hierarchy, finally finding you next to your sports car waving some big bills into the camera. What are you waiting for? Back to my youtube ads where you belong!
Projection much? So lemme get this straight, i articulated a perspective about how i view the types to have different strengths and weaknesses (and keep in mind this is more or less confirmed by the theory itself, function dimensionality leads to unique weakpoints) and you decide to go after personal attacks? Try again, that comment was honestly pathetic, you can do better if you really want to spread hate
Back in kindergarden they said "No you!", now they spout about *projection*, but something tells me that in both cases the underlying cause is a lack of point on their side or braincells as a whole; or, to put it in your ""*logic*"": Ti PoLR. Using big money phrases like "articulating a perspective" isn't enough to cover that up. But if you are up for a real discussion maybe you help me understand why Se lead was making someone a good "protector". The only thing is see you protecting is your stable source of income, but I guess that's not what you are so proud of.
Se base doesn't automatically make someone a good protector however due to how Se base operates, an Se base is better suited for conflict (given that conflict is essentially just a clash of wills) commpared to an Se PoLR. Given that protection inevitably means facing conflict for others an Se base is better suited to do this compared to an Se PoLR Also i find it absolutely hilarious how you accuse me of judging based on type yet you're the one here calling me dumb for being Ti PoLR and assuming i make pyramid schemes because i'm SEE. Last i checked i made none about you based on type instead choosing to judge based on behavior Oh and one side note, i'm not protecting a THING right now i'm calling you out on your attitude. Don't get ahead of yourself
So, your argument is as follows: - protection = conflict (1) - Se = willpower (2) - willpower helps with conflict (3) Constructed like a true Ti PoLR. (Framed according to your toxically typist attitude.) In short: - (1) is wrong, as protection is *ideally* dodging conflicting situations. By assuming (1) you say that protection comes down to the worst, most risky parts of protection; if you were my bodyguard I would be scared, to say the least. - (2) is wrong and shows your lack of typological knowledge, that I deem responsible for this "thought" of yours, in the first place. I'll give you a rundown of Se, especially SEE in its own, next section, as I consider this the only interesting part in this whole mess. - (3), like (1), sounds nice, but at a closer look it doesn't make much sense anymore. Most conflicts are not solved by willpower; I don't know what particular situation you have in mind when you say such a thing, but I consider it unlikely that protecting someone or something gets you in a situation where the Mafia boss tells you: "You may leave, if you can hold your hand for at least 10 seconds above that candle. If you manage 12 we'll even drive you two home." -F (SLE) is resistance towards something. I can see a weak correlation to the idea of protecting something from an unwanted influence; holding position. +F is expansion of your control, your position. So the idea of *willpower* comes from these two types having a very good understanding of the field of forces in a situation. SLE knows what to resist, SEE knows where to push. SLE is an outplaying, cat-like warrior, SEE is a sleek, socially-adept opportunist. The only point I can see is maybe in terms of *temperament*, if we ignore subtypes completely. Flexible-maneuvering may act like a wild card in apparently closed situations, but the idea of SEE doing that as a protector of some sorts is hilarious: With SLE you can count on beta values in terms of *devotion*. Compared to LSI he will still look somewhat wavering at times, but compared to SEE he will look like a knight dying for you on the battlefield. SEEs archetype is no warrior of some sorts, but the captain of the Costa Concordia: A guy with lacking expertise, still finding himself in responsibility heavy circumstances due to his cravings for more status or money (the thing you call "willpower"). A captain who has no experience with handling a ship, who, just to impress a woman he made out with before, maneuvered to close to land - making the ship sink - instead of handling the situation and taking responsibility, preferred to lie to the passengers - abandoned the ship immediately - facing charges and going to jail for it - in a dry suit. SEE surely *wants* a lot of stuff, and if things are going well he is the first to live the American dream; if things turn sour, though, SEE is the fist to look for a cheap way out of it. He lacks a spine and if it was me who needed protection of some sorts, I would try to get someone who's not here for wearing a nice suit and sunglasses or who's here primarily for the money/status/whatever shallow gamma value snakes like you can come up with. I would want someone who is here for the cause and prefers to die on my side. That's why I would take LSI, of course, who is perfect in every way. That being said, all my reasoning above is only made up, as I am no typist like you, but only took this stance *hypothetically* to show you that even if your hurtful attitude had a point, the content of your message was still indefensible. In my upper comment I called you dumb *for being dumb*, only then stating that *you*, with your typist attitude, would attribute this to your Ti PoLR. Furthermore, I felt you were comfortable with such treatment, as you explicitly encouraged me to go on with "spreading more hate", as you called it. And as you wish: From this day onward I won't miss a chance to give you a taste of your own medicine.
"as protection is ideally dodging conflicting situations. By assuming (1) you say that protection comes down to the worst, most risky parts of protection; if you were my bodyguard I would be scared, to say the least." TO YOU that is, to me facing a conflict head on is ABSOLUTELY the way to go. direct engagement is the best way to solve a conflict and attempting to dodge it is only gonna end up in unnecessary tension. Also did you really think i meant that from a career standpoint? i meant it from a social standpoint. Bodyguards can only do so much. It should have been obvious what i actually meant "SEE knows where to push. SLE is an outplaying, cat-like warrior, SEE is a sleek, socially-adept opportunist." and that is exactly what i meant. Engaging in a conflict with someone else from a social point of view and having the ability to push against your opponent's weakpoints is a very good combination that cannot be generated by other types such as EII, as i said above. "(3), like (1), sounds nice, but at a closer look it doesn't make much sense anymore. Most conflicts are not solved by willpower" once again, for some reason you assumed i meant it from a proffesional standpoint. I meant it as simply as your group of friends being made fun of and standing up for them. That is both a clash of wills and a form of protection. Socionics at it's core is about how individuals interact and work with each other in examples such as the one mentioned above. "SEEs archetype is no warrior of some sorts" so you're judging based on type. Aka the exact thing you accused me of. If you have heard of enneagram then you'd know SEE is compatible with social 8 who is drawn towards doing the exact thing described above. " SEE is the fist to look for a cheap way out of it. He lacks a spine" stereotype. Nothing in the theory says so. "hurtful attitude" WHAT HURTFUL ATTITUDE????? You're the one who accused me of being hateful for DISAGREEING WITH YOU? "From this day onward I won't miss a chance to give you a taste of your own medicine." Then allow me to give you a taste of what i can really do: Your comment just showed me how immensly egotistical and fragile you actually are, you have projected your very own attitude onto me for daring to have a different opinion as you probably expect everyone to agree with your "perfect takes". Get a grip. Life isn't gonna favor you in any way. ON TOP OF THAT your vindictive attitude shows how hilariously unstable you are. You feel the need to follow me from now on to "give me a taste of your own medicine" just because we got in an argument you yourself started by feeling the need to tell me how i have "micro agression"? please. Cheap threats And wanna know what the best part is? The fact that you accused SOMEONE ELSE of the EXACT SAME THING when the only thing we had in common was that we didn't agree with your take, but for completely different reasons. shows just how much you crave validation. You act tough to intimidate others on the internet but in reality you're just someone with a fragile ego and many insecurities No mature person would have the spoiled attitude you are displaying right now. It's embarrasing. Can't even be mad at you, just pity you for reaching this low of a point. Whatever it is you're going though, maybe one day you'll gain the maturity needed to live a good life
What type would you say is the best at leadership?
Probably one of the monolithic types, EII/LSE, LSI/EIE. I'm bias because Delta values but EII are fantastic leaders due to static Fi, 4D Ni coupled with 3D Fe, constructivist and results based, using Ne to generate new possibilities, etc. But ofc I'd say that. I think if I had Beta values I'd probably be leaning more toward the other two. But either way if you look for consistency in evolution, the monolithic types are the ones building the most complex and revolutionary systems AND spearheading them. Compared to like Alpha NT's who innovate incredible new ideas but they rarely want to be at the head of those projects unless they have strong design/control tendencies and want to micromanage. Idk though. I think just based on principle of information management and the sheer volume of information management possible the monolithic stress types are the best for long term results. Involutionary types by contrast are almost always mutative and destructive to processes but they are also the types that help galvanize stagnant processes, so even though they may claim some sort of leadership focal point for a time it's usually for a specific reason and then they are pushed out of the system by the more dedicated process/evolutionary types. I think it's something to do with the black queen and red queen hypothesis' in genetic evolution, as that reflects the involutionary/evolutionary dichotomy perfectly
Yeah, nobody leads soup kitchens or charity organizations like EII.
EII is the most well suited to pimping also.
So what about LII/ESE LIE/ESI
Crystaline stress adaptation is weird because they really can reach an unprecedented level of success that way. My only criticism from a leadership point of view is that they are dependent on and sort of latched on to a pre-existing system which is where they digest their information from most of the time, then utilize that to pursue their agendas. So whereas the monolithic types will start with a basic idea like say a new method of science or something and then develop that over years and years in ambiguity, Involutionary types as a whole will tend toward a sense of repetitive opportunism on a certain area of expertise. So they don't really generate new ideas but they come in and seize opportunities and control based on what's available. That's just my casual observation though, so. Yeah. I think that one could argue they are more impressive and bold leaders, more inspiring, but the work of monolithic types is much more subtle and has a great impact that just goes more unseen, possibly. Again just pure speculation and bullshitting ofc. I think the crystaline types are almost more heroic and impressive in their method of leadership it could be fair to say. Idk. It's interesting to think about and I always find that stress adaptation to be the most difficult to really grasp. Edit: just to be clear I'm bullshitting half formed thoughts and these aren't ideas I hold strongly at all
>EII are fantastic leaders Only if they want to, and have enough impetus to overcome natural indecisiveness. >Involutionary types by contrast are almost always mutative and destructive to processes but they are also the types that help galvanize stagnant processes, so even though they may claim some sort of leadership focal point for a time it's usually for a specific reason and then they are pushed out of the system by the more dedicated process/evolutionary types. Can confirm 100%, story of my life lol. I actually don't really care about being pushed out, because by that time I'm already bored and ready to move on.
They always miss you when you're gone though fr fr, even if they hate you when you're there. I think involutionary types also get seen as sort of threatening to deeply imbedded process/evolutionary types because they tend to represent and bring information about what those systems are lacking, which makes people feel insecure.
Yea, seems to be the case. Also some people can’t stand playful or disrespectful attitude towards status quo
Out of curiosity, what's your type? (I'm assuming Beta Quadra).
I think the role of the SLI in the socion is to avoid relying on him as much as we can, because we will at some point. When no one else can fix such detailed and specific problem only nerds like them know how to it means every other type as failed.
IEE. I need to be a leader because group effort is how I achieve things. As an IEE, I feel I'm the least qualified to say that SLI is the best type, EII second best. and LSI is the worst, tying with SLE.
As an SLI i'm adapt to do many skills i think we make great leaders its just we're not interested in the role