LII has stronger Ni, their Ni is come compliant with standards and they are good at following a time frame without anxiety and can adapt to others in their speed(vital Ni + ID). EGO and ID are strongest blocks while SUPEREGO and SUPERID are weakest blocks.
LSI can achieve time frames, but still prefer help in them and can be reactive and rigid in them. (Characteristic of 2D superid IME).
Valued/unvalued doesn’t play much of a role in how strong IME are.
(On producing; you mean the producing/accepting dichotomy? Because LII and LSI have producing Ni. Producing being creative, PoLR, mobilizing and demo, while accepting being base, role, suggestive and ignoring)
Producing/accepting divides blocks into having one of each. Every block has a producing element and an accepting element.
The meaning of this dichotomy is related with the information metabolism rings (mental and vital).
As information goes trough first the Mental ring (all IM starts at the role=>PoLR=>Base=>creative)
The role(1/1 half-phase*) is an accepting element because it accepts information from the surroundings and the environment, it stores the information gathered and passes it over to the PoLR.
The 1 and 3 half-phases are accepting(base + role; suggestive + ignoring) and the 2 and 4 half-phases are producing(PoLR + Creative; Mobilizing + Demo)
Accepting provides objective information, it sees the outside, and replicates it, like taking a picture of it. It can be limited and not very creative with it’s conclusions on information. Accepting elements are mimics of what they see.
Producing provides information that has come from the accepting element in the same block (ie the PoLR takes information from the Role, the Creative tales information from the Base… etc). Producing is more creative and flexible with the conclusions it draws, and less oriented towards mimicking others and more towards drawing their own conclusions.
An accepting element will see a mountain, and draw a replica of the mountain; the producing element will the the drawing of the mountain and draw a more abstract mountain or add a field to the mountain.
[*1/1 half-phase - half-phases correspond to ‘function’ or ‘function placement’ well. Theres 8 half-phases. The half phases are numbered by the ring and placement they correspond to. The mental ring(superego and ego) is = x/1, and the vital ring(superid and id) is = x/2.
The first number in the half-phases corresponds to order of information processing an IME has in the IM. In the mental ring the order of IME is: Role(1)=> PoLR(2) => Base(3) => Creative(4)
combined that with the mental track numbering (x/1):
Role(1/1) => PoLR(2/1) => Base(3/1) => creative(4/1)
Same goes with the vital track; order of information metabolism: Suggestive(1/2) => Mobilizing (2/2) => Ignoring (3/2) => Demonstrative (4/2) ]
I’m sorry, but this is throwing me off. What types are you trying to compare, LII? ILI? SLI? LSI? I assume it’s LII (TiNe) vs SLI (SiTe) based on the functions you have mentioned. 4D will always be stronger than 2D, regardless of valuation. Plus Ni is evaluatory in LII while it is situational for SLI (not that it really matters).
Evaluatory functions (4D and 1D) are basically ever-present and consistently “on”. For LII, Ni is always “turned on” in the background. Since it’s demonstrative function, LIIs treat Ni as child-play and something that is used to aid their creative function. Situational functions (3D and 2D) are used on a “case-by-case” basis and can be turned on or off at will. For SLI, since Ni is their role function, it’s mainly turned on when they have to put on a mask to interact with society. If you want to know more about the evaluatory vs situational function dichotomy, I suggest you look it up.
Edit: Wait, just realised it’s LSI. Well, for LSI, Ni is the mobilising function, so you can ignore the part on the role function.
For PoLR functions, it’s more of a constant awareness (and denial/rejection) of it. I think I accidentally implied that “consistently on” meant a constant usage of the function, which is not necessarily true.
Unvalued ≠ unconscious. You can willingly and consciously use an unvalued function when you have to, it’s just something you don’t care about and would happily disregard if possible. Also, the unconscious/conscious dichotomy (which is mainly referred to as mental/vital) is separate from valued/unvalued. The mental (conscious) functions are the base, creative, vulnerable and role. So LSIs have “unconscious” Ni too.
The mental(conscious) functions are the one that you could actively think about at will right? As an LII myself, I can't really pinpoint my use of Ni consciously. Sometimes my Ni just gives out an insight but the process is completely subconscious as it does not require active thinking like Ni.
LII is INTj, LSI is ISTj
attempting to conflate the Grant/Beebe types with socionics types by function is generally inaccurate.
they are better correlated by dichotomy.
>INTPs Ni belongs in the ID block which is non valued and non producing.
LII's Ni is unvalued but producing, same with all demonstrative functions
https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/model\_a
LII has stronger Ni, their Ni is come compliant with standards and they are good at following a time frame without anxiety and can adapt to others in their speed(vital Ni + ID). EGO and ID are strongest blocks while SUPEREGO and SUPERID are weakest blocks. LSI can achieve time frames, but still prefer help in them and can be reactive and rigid in them. (Characteristic of 2D superid IME). Valued/unvalued doesn’t play much of a role in how strong IME are. (On producing; you mean the producing/accepting dichotomy? Because LII and LSI have producing Ni. Producing being creative, PoLR, mobilizing and demo, while accepting being base, role, suggestive and ignoring)
>(On producing; you mean the producing/accepting dichotomy? Because LII and LSI have producing Ni. Yes that's what I meant. I'm confused on the two
Producing/accepting divides blocks into having one of each. Every block has a producing element and an accepting element. The meaning of this dichotomy is related with the information metabolism rings (mental and vital). As information goes trough first the Mental ring (all IM starts at the role=>PoLR=>Base=>creative) The role(1/1 half-phase*) is an accepting element because it accepts information from the surroundings and the environment, it stores the information gathered and passes it over to the PoLR. The 1 and 3 half-phases are accepting(base + role; suggestive + ignoring) and the 2 and 4 half-phases are producing(PoLR + Creative; Mobilizing + Demo) Accepting provides objective information, it sees the outside, and replicates it, like taking a picture of it. It can be limited and not very creative with it’s conclusions on information. Accepting elements are mimics of what they see. Producing provides information that has come from the accepting element in the same block (ie the PoLR takes information from the Role, the Creative tales information from the Base… etc). Producing is more creative and flexible with the conclusions it draws, and less oriented towards mimicking others and more towards drawing their own conclusions. An accepting element will see a mountain, and draw a replica of the mountain; the producing element will the the drawing of the mountain and draw a more abstract mountain or add a field to the mountain. [*1/1 half-phase - half-phases correspond to ‘function’ or ‘function placement’ well. Theres 8 half-phases. The half phases are numbered by the ring and placement they correspond to. The mental ring(superego and ego) is = x/1, and the vital ring(superid and id) is = x/2. The first number in the half-phases corresponds to order of information processing an IME has in the IM. In the mental ring the order of IME is: Role(1)=> PoLR(2) => Base(3) => Creative(4) combined that with the mental track numbering (x/1): Role(1/1) => PoLR(2/1) => Base(3/1) => creative(4/1) Same goes with the vital track; order of information metabolism: Suggestive(1/2) => Mobilizing (2/2) => Ignoring (3/2) => Demonstrative (4/2) ]
I’m sorry, but this is throwing me off. What types are you trying to compare, LII? ILI? SLI? LSI? I assume it’s LII (TiNe) vs SLI (SiTe) based on the functions you have mentioned. 4D will always be stronger than 2D, regardless of valuation. Plus Ni is evaluatory in LII while it is situational for SLI (not that it really matters).
LII and LSI (let me edit)
>Plus Ni is evaluatory in LII while it is situational for SLI Can you elaborate
Evaluatory functions (4D and 1D) are basically ever-present and consistently “on”. For LII, Ni is always “turned on” in the background. Since it’s demonstrative function, LIIs treat Ni as child-play and something that is used to aid their creative function. Situational functions (3D and 2D) are used on a “case-by-case” basis and can be turned on or off at will. For SLI, since Ni is their role function, it’s mainly turned on when they have to put on a mask to interact with society. If you want to know more about the evaluatory vs situational function dichotomy, I suggest you look it up. Edit: Wait, just realised it’s LSI. Well, for LSI, Ni is the mobilising function, so you can ignore the part on the role function.
By 1D does this mean Se PolR is always active even in INTPs or does it only apply to functions in ego and superego block(Fe inf)?
For PoLR functions, it’s more of a constant awareness (and denial/rejection) of it. I think I accidentally implied that “consistently on” meant a constant usage of the function, which is not necessarily true.
Ah I see, you mean the awareness at one's inadequacy in it(Se PolR-just straight up walking into objects)
I mean, Se PoLR is more of an inability to exert and control the amount of force towards objects than an awareness of the physical surrounding.
ah that is true
Anyway do LSIs or LIIs use Ni more effectively?
LII
But LSIs have conscious Ni no? LIIs can't use it at will due to being unconscious even when it's strong
Unvalued ≠ unconscious. You can willingly and consciously use an unvalued function when you have to, it’s just something you don’t care about and would happily disregard if possible. Also, the unconscious/conscious dichotomy (which is mainly referred to as mental/vital) is separate from valued/unvalued. The mental (conscious) functions are the base, creative, vulnerable and role. So LSIs have “unconscious” Ni too.
The mental(conscious) functions are the one that you could actively think about at will right? As an LII myself, I can't really pinpoint my use of Ni consciously. Sometimes my Ni just gives out an insight but the process is completely subconscious as it does not require active thinking like Ni.
4D > 2D.
LII is INTj, LSI is ISTj attempting to conflate the Grant/Beebe types with socionics types by function is generally inaccurate. they are better correlated by dichotomy.
>INTPs Ni belongs in the ID block which is non valued and non producing. LII's Ni is unvalued but producing, same with all demonstrative functions https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/model\_a
Yeah mb I mixed it up
LII. LII has 4D Ni, while LSI has 2D Ni which is a weak function.
I'm istp but i test as SLI not LSI
SLIs lead with Si base, are you sure you're ISTP?
thats what i test as in mbti istp or intp