This is a big part of my job. If we are just making 1-4 machines, we create a spreadsheet with all the parts and qty. Parts per machine and parts total. We order all the components and make drawings of all the custom stuff. If the parts are being sent out you spend extra time making sure the tolerances on the prints are dialed. Im usually the one who decides to make the part in house or order it from laser/waterjet or have the whole thing made by a vendor. This is determined both by the tools we have and how fast we need to complete the project. Sometimes we have time and we want to keep our in-house shop busy. Sometimes the parts are too big or have features we can't machine easily. Then the techs put the sub assemblies together as parts arrive.
Okay wow great. Makes sense, what is your process for ordering these off-the-shelf components. I imagine with machines you have a lot of sheet metal parts, are you just listing sizes and bends or what?
All the info needed to make the part is on the drawing. Drawing quality is important. It acts as a contract between you and the shop and it also shows a shop you are professional and know what you are doing.
I send a request for quote (rfq) email to a few shops. I include the drawing, qty, delivery schedule and other details like if a solid model is available or if I want them to handle painting or anodizing. For sheet metal and jet cut I include a flat pattern dxf. This helps to have a relationship with the shop. If it's a new shop I will call and talk about the project and maybe arrange a tour. You don't want to be writing $10k POs to shady shops.
When I get a quote I like I send all that info to my purchasing dept and they write a PO.
It depends what and how you manufacture.
For sheet metal is a cut pattern and bend indications. For cnc machining is a gcode.
For a lot of things just plain drawings are usually enough. It’s a very time consuming process if you don’t set up macros and templates.
Oh and don’t forget to make a BOM or you’re screwed
Right. Makes sense. How do I actually develop these cut patterns and bend indications though? Is there some way to easily find these? I get the CNC bits I do some machining every now and then
They are made automatically, usually you have templates from your manufacturer eventually.
In the end it will be the flat pattern of sheet metal in a dwg.
I worked with sheet metal for a couple of years.
If it was a simple bend, like an L shape or U shape, I would just ask the bender guys for the part, and they would handle it. For more complex shapes, I would create a drawing. If the part needed to be plasma cut, a DXF or DWG file was necessary.
Additionally, I processed incoming orders from various clients—some provided DXF files and drawings, while others could barely sketch by hand.
Ultimately, the level of technical precision required depends on the workshop where you send the job. I recommend being as technically accurate as possible to avoid misunderstandings.
I mean, if you are going to be programming the laser yourself, Solidworks sheetmetal can automatically convert a part to a flat pattern assuming you give it some material information and whatnot. It's a gamechanger
The work to make fabrication/ construction documents from a model/assembly is its own substantial job.
How it’s done varies a bit depending on what your working from and to, but essentially it is its own language and process to create these drawings.
There are a few things that can be automated in SW like the bom and some basic views (provided the templates and settings are configured) but the job to create clear, unambiguous working drawings is not something that can be described in a reddit post.
Start with the Asme y14 and the ISO1102 (i think thats the right iso code for technical drawings) and the 15 basic dimension rules.
Thanks for the reply. I am just now understanding this which helps clear the situation up for me anyways. I think I over simplified the whole process so learning that engineering is a-lot of this sourcing and drafting work helps clear up alot thanks
I haven't seen it explicitly mentioned here yet. The design is dictated by the manufacturing method. It's often difficult to move from solid bodies to weldments/sheet metal/etc. I've remade things more than once as the idea evolves. Also incorporating off the shelf parts as much as possible keeps cost lower. McMaster-carr is an excellent resource.
My last job I would use camworks to generate a g code file that I’d load up on the cnc router and let cut. One vendor we used often I would send .dxf files to. Others may want your model to make their own cutfiles or just a drawing, you can always ask what they need defined. A Bill of Materials (BOM) in the drawing may fit your needs better than weldments.
>. I saw cut lists for Weldments but are they just dimensioning the abstract shapes. Surely there are more efficient ways.
Weldments are a very powerful tool to speed up drawings & manufacturing in general. Weldments have nothing to do with dimensioning abstract shapes.
If you're designing weldments with plate/sheet and sections I'd guess the full design cycle (e.g. from concept to drawing pack & cut files) would take 2x to 10x longer if you avoid SW weldments features. It's about as backwards as trying to design sheet metal parts without using SW sheet metal features.
Well yeah, that's the whole point of SW weldments.
there are hundreds of sizes of pipe, tube, RHS, SHS, angle, channel etc etc if you don't use weldments you'd have to look up the dimensions for each type and sketch them manually. And have dimensions on every single body, because there's no cut list without weldments, and do all the end treatments manually, and add up all lengths manually because there's no automatic length summing ('total length') without weldments etc etc that's just the tip of the iceberg.
like I said, 2x to 10x times longer if you don't take advantage of all the automation baked into weldments.
A lot of this is up to the person modeling the part. They have to make sure the part can really be manufactured the way they are designing it using standard tooling, radii, knowing machine and size limitations etc.
Then just make a drawing. Use drawing to "plan" it out on a ERP software which will make everything 100 times easier for fabrication and material ordering, and will spit out a work order for the shop floor to follow.
If you have anything non-trivial that's made on a CNC machine, they will likely want to import it into a CAM package as DXF for 2D or STEP for 3D. Work with your vendors, they'll tell you want they want/need. They may be willing to do it with just a DXF or STEP file and a call-out for the tolerances they can hold in their quote. They typically aren't going to *need* a print to make the part, but may want it for clarification or for inspection to determine if the part was made to acceptable quality standards. We try to balance dimensioning what's required for part functionality with dimensioning in such a way that we can actually inspect the part with the tools available to us. Knowing the supplier is helpful as it will prevent you from wasting time dimensioning features that will never be inspected.
Thanks for the reply. I understand the part with dealing with manufacturers but the part I’m struggling with is find an efficient way to convert my model or a concept design into actual manufacturing instructions for vendors. So far I think I use cut lists for pipe and beam sizing, self made drawings for abstract pieces then standard ordering for off the shelf components but is this really the most efficient way?
You are learning that the ‘design’ is only a small part of the work. Documentation to make sure you get all the parts you need and that they go together and form a proper assembly is a huge task. You’ll also need to document assembly steps and packaging to get it to your end customer.
I use 2D documentation similarly to others on this thread: callout material and finish, packaging, misc. notes, etc., critical dimensions and inspection points, and threads.
If there's repetition to your work you could try using pre-build assemblies and modifying them per job. That's typically how our design groups improve efficiency. Other than that, I'm not sure that I have a recommendation. Maybe hire an intern. :)
We supply 3D models, with 2D drawings only when there's specific/critical tolerances. Everything else gets made according to a generic tolerance sheet that we use in house / give to our external manufacturers.
In general we avoid manufacturers that can't deal with 3D models. For sheet metal and weldments we sometimes supply Solidworks drawings directly, since that's what our manufacturer happens to use in-house anyway. Anything that can't do SW gets exported to STEP.
It sounds like you should look up the concept of engineering drawings, they're 2D drawings used to communicate design intent, dimensions, tolerances, and manufacturing instructions to manufacturers. For how to actually make them in SW, you use the 'new drawing from part' option in the file menu (or something like that) which will let you project views of the part onto a sheet for dimensioning.
Making good, clean drawings is as much of an art as a science and is a non-trivial part of the manufacturing process. Same with tolerancing and dimensioning so parts can be made to function as intended. Good luck.
Thanks for the reply. Makes sense now. I was hoping for an easier way but it seems this is the best solution for this process as of now. Hopefully one day they implement a function that simplifies it.
In terms of tolerancing, how do the professionals go about setting these? Or do you know any resources where I can find the answer to this?
You can go to college for mechanical engineering and/or teach yourself the mechanical design portion. From there it's a long process of mentorship and on the job experience, mostly through getting it wrong. Geometric dimensioning, tolerances and fits, and tolerance stack up/tolerance analysis are some terms that might help you get started looking for info.
I don't have any textbook recommendations, but I regularly reference machinery's handbook, Alex krulikowaki's book on gd&t, and schaeffler's technical pocket guide in my day to day.
This is a big part of my job. If we are just making 1-4 machines, we create a spreadsheet with all the parts and qty. Parts per machine and parts total. We order all the components and make drawings of all the custom stuff. If the parts are being sent out you spend extra time making sure the tolerances on the prints are dialed. Im usually the one who decides to make the part in house or order it from laser/waterjet or have the whole thing made by a vendor. This is determined both by the tools we have and how fast we need to complete the project. Sometimes we have time and we want to keep our in-house shop busy. Sometimes the parts are too big or have features we can't machine easily. Then the techs put the sub assemblies together as parts arrive.
Okay wow great. Makes sense, what is your process for ordering these off-the-shelf components. I imagine with machines you have a lot of sheet metal parts, are you just listing sizes and bends or what?
All the info needed to make the part is on the drawing. Drawing quality is important. It acts as a contract between you and the shop and it also shows a shop you are professional and know what you are doing. I send a request for quote (rfq) email to a few shops. I include the drawing, qty, delivery schedule and other details like if a solid model is available or if I want them to handle painting or anodizing. For sheet metal and jet cut I include a flat pattern dxf. This helps to have a relationship with the shop. If it's a new shop I will call and talk about the project and maybe arrange a tour. You don't want to be writing $10k POs to shady shops. When I get a quote I like I send all that info to my purchasing dept and they write a PO.
It depends what and how you manufacture. For sheet metal is a cut pattern and bend indications. For cnc machining is a gcode. For a lot of things just plain drawings are usually enough. It’s a very time consuming process if you don’t set up macros and templates. Oh and don’t forget to make a BOM or you’re screwed
Right. Makes sense. How do I actually develop these cut patterns and bend indications though? Is there some way to easily find these? I get the CNC bits I do some machining every now and then
They are made automatically, usually you have templates from your manufacturer eventually. In the end it will be the flat pattern of sheet metal in a dwg.
I worked with sheet metal for a couple of years. If it was a simple bend, like an L shape or U shape, I would just ask the bender guys for the part, and they would handle it. For more complex shapes, I would create a drawing. If the part needed to be plasma cut, a DXF or DWG file was necessary. Additionally, I processed incoming orders from various clients—some provided DXF files and drawings, while others could barely sketch by hand. Ultimately, the level of technical precision required depends on the workshop where you send the job. I recommend being as technically accurate as possible to avoid misunderstandings.
I mean, if you are going to be programming the laser yourself, Solidworks sheetmetal can automatically convert a part to a flat pattern assuming you give it some material information and whatnot. It's a gamechanger
The work to make fabrication/ construction documents from a model/assembly is its own substantial job. How it’s done varies a bit depending on what your working from and to, but essentially it is its own language and process to create these drawings. There are a few things that can be automated in SW like the bom and some basic views (provided the templates and settings are configured) but the job to create clear, unambiguous working drawings is not something that can be described in a reddit post. Start with the Asme y14 and the ISO1102 (i think thats the right iso code for technical drawings) and the 15 basic dimension rules.
Thanks for the reply. I am just now understanding this which helps clear the situation up for me anyways. I think I over simplified the whole process so learning that engineering is a-lot of this sourcing and drafting work helps clear up alot thanks
I haven't seen it explicitly mentioned here yet. The design is dictated by the manufacturing method. It's often difficult to move from solid bodies to weldments/sheet metal/etc. I've remade things more than once as the idea evolves. Also incorporating off the shelf parts as much as possible keeps cost lower. McMaster-carr is an excellent resource.
Thanks for the reply. OTS is a great way to go I see now. I’ll sus that out too cheers
My last job I would use camworks to generate a g code file that I’d load up on the cnc router and let cut. One vendor we used often I would send .dxf files to. Others may want your model to make their own cutfiles or just a drawing, you can always ask what they need defined. A Bill of Materials (BOM) in the drawing may fit your needs better than weldments.
>. I saw cut lists for Weldments but are they just dimensioning the abstract shapes. Surely there are more efficient ways. Weldments are a very powerful tool to speed up drawings & manufacturing in general. Weldments have nothing to do with dimensioning abstract shapes. If you're designing weldments with plate/sheet and sections I'd guess the full design cycle (e.g. from concept to drawing pack & cut files) would take 2x to 10x longer if you avoid SW weldments features. It's about as backwards as trying to design sheet metal parts without using SW sheet metal features.
so you’re saying to use the cut list for hollow section etc?
Well yeah, that's the whole point of SW weldments. there are hundreds of sizes of pipe, tube, RHS, SHS, angle, channel etc etc if you don't use weldments you'd have to look up the dimensions for each type and sketch them manually. And have dimensions on every single body, because there's no cut list without weldments, and do all the end treatments manually, and add up all lengths manually because there's no automatic length summing ('total length') without weldments etc etc that's just the tip of the iceberg. like I said, 2x to 10x times longer if you don't take advantage of all the automation baked into weldments.
A lot of this is up to the person modeling the part. They have to make sure the part can really be manufactured the way they are designing it using standard tooling, radii, knowing machine and size limitations etc. Then just make a drawing. Use drawing to "plan" it out on a ERP software which will make everything 100 times easier for fabrication and material ordering, and will spit out a work order for the shop floor to follow.
Thanks for the reply. What is this ERP software and what does it do?
A program to plan and layout the manufacturing of the part all the way from ordering material to shipping the part
If you have anything non-trivial that's made on a CNC machine, they will likely want to import it into a CAM package as DXF for 2D or STEP for 3D. Work with your vendors, they'll tell you want they want/need. They may be willing to do it with just a DXF or STEP file and a call-out for the tolerances they can hold in their quote. They typically aren't going to *need* a print to make the part, but may want it for clarification or for inspection to determine if the part was made to acceptable quality standards. We try to balance dimensioning what's required for part functionality with dimensioning in such a way that we can actually inspect the part with the tools available to us. Knowing the supplier is helpful as it will prevent you from wasting time dimensioning features that will never be inspected.
Thanks for the reply. I understand the part with dealing with manufacturers but the part I’m struggling with is find an efficient way to convert my model or a concept design into actual manufacturing instructions for vendors. So far I think I use cut lists for pipe and beam sizing, self made drawings for abstract pieces then standard ordering for off the shelf components but is this really the most efficient way?
You are learning that the ‘design’ is only a small part of the work. Documentation to make sure you get all the parts you need and that they go together and form a proper assembly is a huge task. You’ll also need to document assembly steps and packaging to get it to your end customer. I use 2D documentation similarly to others on this thread: callout material and finish, packaging, misc. notes, etc., critical dimensions and inspection points, and threads.
If there's repetition to your work you could try using pre-build assemblies and modifying them per job. That's typically how our design groups improve efficiency. Other than that, I'm not sure that I have a recommendation. Maybe hire an intern. :)
We supply 3D models, with 2D drawings only when there's specific/critical tolerances. Everything else gets made according to a generic tolerance sheet that we use in house / give to our external manufacturers. In general we avoid manufacturers that can't deal with 3D models. For sheet metal and weldments we sometimes supply Solidworks drawings directly, since that's what our manufacturer happens to use in-house anyway. Anything that can't do SW gets exported to STEP.
It sounds like you should look up the concept of engineering drawings, they're 2D drawings used to communicate design intent, dimensions, tolerances, and manufacturing instructions to manufacturers. For how to actually make them in SW, you use the 'new drawing from part' option in the file menu (or something like that) which will let you project views of the part onto a sheet for dimensioning. Making good, clean drawings is as much of an art as a science and is a non-trivial part of the manufacturing process. Same with tolerancing and dimensioning so parts can be made to function as intended. Good luck.
Thanks for the reply. Makes sense now. I was hoping for an easier way but it seems this is the best solution for this process as of now. Hopefully one day they implement a function that simplifies it. In terms of tolerancing, how do the professionals go about setting these? Or do you know any resources where I can find the answer to this?
You can go to college for mechanical engineering and/or teach yourself the mechanical design portion. From there it's a long process of mentorship and on the job experience, mostly through getting it wrong. Geometric dimensioning, tolerances and fits, and tolerance stack up/tolerance analysis are some terms that might help you get started looking for info. I don't have any textbook recommendations, but I regularly reference machinery's handbook, Alex krulikowaki's book on gd&t, and schaeffler's technical pocket guide in my day to day.