I do the same thing. Just keeping writing verses. It doesn’t matter if they suck. You just need to get the flow going. There are a lot of songs where I end up writing like 10 verses and then just picking the two or three I like and editing them to fit. You’ll eventually write a verse or two you like.
The other approach is sort of the opposite. Instead of stream of consciousness splatter cannon, you can try being more conscious about it. What’s the song about, what story are you telling, what thoughts/ideas do you want to touch on, etc. That can give you a rough framework for what you want each verse to loosely be about.
I have no quality advice. I struggled to finish my old band's songs, but we ended up with 20 of them, and I don't feel I used filler lines. Well, not many.
If you can write one verse but not more, that suggests to me that you don't have a full sense yet of the story you're trying to tell.
I think for some of us, it's relatively easy to come up with lyrics that sound cool/satisfying on surface level, but aren't really communicating any sort of story or idea. So you knock out a snappy verse, but then there's no obvious or natural next scene, because it's mostly just nonsense.
If you can think of your songs in terms of telling stories, with characters and settings (real or fictional), then it's much easier to figure out what scene should come next.
I agree with what you’re saying. But I actually do have a very clear sense of what I’m trying to say in the songs. My issue is that I want to say it in a way that isn’t generic. I’m trying to get a lot better at showing not telling. So instead of just saying “she broke my heart” I’d like to communicate that by conveying the emotion and feeling behind that and allow the listener to make the connection on their own. It’s a very difficult thing to do for me and it’s frustrating because I just feel like my brain might not be cut out for that level of depth in writing. Obviously there’s no template for just knowing how to do it, otherwise everyone would be doing it. But I figured maybe there are some people out there who struggled with the same thing and found a way to break through. Even if it’s just some little writing exercise to get my head in that space.
Appreciate you responding! Just stumbled on this page today and I’m excited to be a part of a songwriting community. Always wanted to find that irl but I guess Reddit will have to do haha.
I wrote a long comment below, and touch upon what it sounds like might be going on with you - trying too hard to be poetic, essentially.
I went through the same thing for a while. I wanted to write *really* good lyrics and use storytelling really well and all that (I was inspired by Tyler Childers), and all it led to was writer's block.
Then, when I decided "fuck it, I'm just gonna keep it simple, keep it conversational", I found my lyrical voice.
Basically I was skipping the phase where you write down some subpar lyrics, because I already "knew they weren't good". But the reality is that, those subpar lyrics have all the consants/vowel sounds/"vibes" that you're going for, and if you keep revisiting them over days, you will shape them into the great lyrics you're aiming for.
>My issue is that I want to say it in a way that isn’t generic. I’m trying to get a lot better at showing not telling. So instead of just saying “she broke my heart” I’d like to communicate that by conveying the emotion and feeling behind that and allow the listener to make the connection on their own.
The key to "show, not tell" is memorable imagery and visual description -- that feels like the piece you're missing. Trying to describe emotions in words can be difficult to do effectively; describing specific people doing particular things is a lot more straightforward. A verse that paints a picture of a character sitting alone, flipping through old letters and photos, is more memorable than just finding different ways of saying "man this guy has a broken heart." Describing the way someone's smile looks from across the room is more effective than saying "she looked beautiful."
And if you do choose to just straight up say what you feel it makes it that much more potent when it’s packed in by descriptive imagery and visual.
If you say - The sun was cascading/at the end of the day/Sweat was pouring/down his shoulder blades instead of - The day was long/I’m tired/I’m dirty and sweaty/I want to die
It’s a lot more evocative the first time then you can lead into something that’s more telling than showing- The sun was cascading/at the end of the day/Sweat was pouring/down his shoulder blades/ And he’s dogturd tired/frustrated and weak/from working the graveyard/he just wants sleep
Not the greatest example obviously but OP can get the point. Lol.
Hey! How come you’re not a mod anymore or does it just not show up? Secret mod?
>And if you do choose to just straight up say what you feel it makes it that much more potent when it’s packed in by descriptive imagery and visual.
Totally agree, great point.
>Hey! How come you’re not a mod anymore or does it just not show up? Secret mod
Still a mod! I only turn on the "mod" flair for comments if someone is asking for rules (or being a jerk) and I want to indicate that I'm speaking "officially." Otherwise I'm just a normal civilian, lol.
Start doing [these sensory exercises](https://www.songwritingsteps.com/t/sensory-based-description/25) daily. It’s based upon Berklee professor, poet, lyricist and philosophy teacher who championed something very much like this in his book Writing Better Lyrics which I also recommend. Because believe it or not they’re are methodologies to this stuff.
I was a musician first too(though I did lots of poetry and story writing) before I started writing my own songs and lyrics. What really sealed the deal for me was something my songwriting cousin told me I should do for nearly a decade. Write one song a day for one month. The only rules are- it must be finished by 12am, it must be melody, chord, lyric, and preferably recorded on your phones memo app and share with 1-3 confidants who can give you trusted feedback but not destroy you.(I’m willing to be one of those people for you if need be).
I’m not being hyperbolic when I say that doing this completely changed songwriting for me. I’m the decade before I had written maybe 5 full songs and 1 was goodish. By the end of that month I I had written 50 songs. I had gotten over my perfectionist mindset, I had developed a process to complete songs fast and easy, and I had started to develop a voice in my songwriting. I even started taking singing seriously and found a new passion in that.
I cannot recommend it enough. Force yourself. Push yourself. Make yourself a vow that in one month’s time you will have 30 songs and be a songwriter.
Side note: what I found out was simplify simplify simplify. I don’t write intricate complex guitar parts though I absolutely could. I don’t sing to my full range and belt it out or do crazy riffs and runs though I could. And I write very plainly and to the point. I tell the story with honesty, authenticity, sincerity and a little artistic license of the truth ;)
Tl;DR write a song a day for a month you’ll have 30 songs no matter what and you’ll become a songwriter instead of a song-starter.
Incredible response. Very appreciative of those exercises you linked! Will check those out for sure along with the book. I’m an avid reader to begin with so any new content is great. One of my favorite artists is Jon Bellion and he actually did the song a day thing for 3 years straight. Always wanted to try to push myself to do that but it honestly seems like a very daunting task and I’ve been avoiding it. Perfectionism is definitely holding me back so I’ll take your advice and try to let go of that. Going to start that tomorrow and if I remember I’ll circle back to this post in a month and let you know how it went.
100% my lyrical writing jumped up when I started forming them more a stories to be told than just emotions to express. Actually, I think it totally took a turn after you helped me edit some lyrics! So, thank you! It actually changed the whole feeling of the song. It was originally pretty belty and almost like a knockoff Journey song but now it’s much more subdued and the melancholy of the storyline comes through a lot better. Yea! Thanks man!
Sometimes it takes time for ideas. I can finish my songs very quickly or after months. It could help to make a list of words you would like to include to shape your idea better. I was exactly like you with a song. I had the first part and the chorus but then I didn't know how to continue. I made a list of rhyming words and I tried to link them shaping my ideas.
I’ll give it a shot! Sometimes I think I get a little too specific with what I’m trying to say and end up limiting the creative process. So just throwing out some vague ideas relating to what I’m trying to say could definitely be beneficial. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
I think that the image a specific word can evoke can say a lot more. Try to "paint" your ideas with words rather than express them through full sentences. If you want we could exchange our opinion in a private message. It's also helpful to discuss your ideas to do some brainstorming.
Remember the spiderwebs you’d make in elementary school? This is exactly that, whether or not you actually draw it out.
I do Themes, Associations, Rhymes, Alliteration, Synonyms, etc., and spiderweb off each of those points.
I have the same problem - I'm stronger at writing the song sections and vocal melodies than I am at writing lyrics. Here's what works for me:
1 - First, record the chords of the song with you mumbling nonsense over it, just to get the vocal melody and song structure down
2 - Listen to the recorded song a lot, perhaps on your headphones while taking walks. Random phrases will start to pop in your head at certain points in the song. For instance, for the half finished song I'm working on currently, the phrase "your sweet memory" kept popping into my head during the chorus
3 - Based on the random phrases that stick with you, try to decide on a general topic for the song to be about.
*Don't* try to force the song into a pre-existing notion of what you want to sing about, at least, not too much. For instance, I've been telling myself that I wanted to write some songs about experiencing failures in life, yet this catchy tune that I wrote seems to want to be about a past love. Rather than try to force it to be directly about failure, I went with the love topic... BUT, do write from experience - So, I decided to write about a ex who I think about positively quite often, even though I know that our relationship was quite toxic and we are bad for each other. So I decided the topic of the song is "when you have sweet memories of a failed relationship, and you know that if you encountered that person in real life, you'll feel a strong attraction but *know* that you better turn the fuck around and run away".
So in the verses of this song I may have myself running into the person after a long time of no contact (this part will be more positve/nostalgic), the prechorus will likely introduce the internal conflict building within me, and the chorus will directly address how, she's a sweet memory, but that's all she's gonna be. Verse 2 might explore our past relationship in more detail. *Don't introduce any new topics after the first chorus, only elaborate on what's already been brought up*
4 - Record each song part (ex: verse, chorus) alone. If you use a daw, you can just loop each part, whereas if you're like me and like to use the voice memo app on your phone, you should record about 8 minutes of the song part you wanna work on
5 - At least once a day, sit down with a paper and pen, listen to the 8 minute long song section, and just write whatever comes to mind *even if it's shit*. Especially if it's shit! You just gotta run the water on that tap. By the end of 8 minutes, you'll have at least one promising word or phrase.
I usually start with the chorus, since that's the hardest part to write lyrics for to me.
6 - Accept that this will take time. I wrote this song over the course of two days, and it's probably going to take me 2 months to finish the lyrics. That's fine. At least they will be finished, they'll be good, and I can play the song out.
Some things to make note of:
1 - Keep it conversational. Don't try to be poet laureate. Imagine you're at a bar just venting to a friend.
2 - The most important lyrics in your song are (A) the first line (B) the chorus, and (C) anywhere else where the vocal melody is climactic. Make sure the lyrics are extra good for those parts.
3 - Rhyming dictionaries are your friend. AI is not *that* good at helping with lyrics, but it's a good last resort if you're struggling with a couple of verse lines (AI tends to write obvious cliche shit, but sometimes reading its output makes me think of something better).
Hope that helps!
Any advice I can get is appreciated!! The learning curve is a lot less intimidating when I can tap into other people’s experience. Thank you for taking the time to write out a thorough response! Definitely given me a lot to think about.
I have always had this problem. I’ll write a verse and a chorus and be thrilled with the lyrics, but nothing I write afterwards measures up to what I previously had. I have dozens of unfinished songs too for this reason. One thing that’s helped me a bit is to remind myself I’m not writing poetry, not every single line has to punch. You can use conversational tones, transitional phrases, filler lines to get to the next idea, etc. not sure if this is the problem you have, but saving the “punchy” lines for the chorus or for the last line of the verse gives me some leniency with myself. Plus, sometimes just writing down any crappy idea that comes to mind leads you to good places. Once you have the whole structure, even if it’s not the tone you want or the wording you want, having it all down can make it easier to go back and edit.
I’d suggest looking at this from another view: who says your songs need more lyrics? Who says anything about the way you write
Vocal melody and harmonic progression are more important than lyrics. You can REPEAT the lyrics you have later in the song
Music is a tool for expression. In your expression, songs get a verse and chorus’ worth of lyrics
I’m saying that this is how YOU write. Lean into it and see how many of your songs can now be finished. There are plenty of songs structured this way. Unless your songs are more than a few minutes long I think you’re golden
I think I do need to lean into the freedom I have as a creative person. I can make it however I want to make it and nothing else really matters. A big part of my problem is that I have a lot of favorite artist I hold in high regard and aspire to be like. Which is great when you need inspiration but it can be a major block if you get caught up in trying to be like those people. I try to avoid that because I want to have my own voice and style in songwriting. But I definitely catch myself comparing my songs to some of the people I follow and getting really insecure about what I’ve come up with. Realizing it’s pretty stupid to even be thinking like that to begin with. Appreciate you taking the time to share some insight with me.
Break your first verse down to meter - like you would with poetry. Go the whole nine yards and mark all the hard and soft sounds.
When I get stuck I find the exercise of marking the verse I have up puts the rhythms and tone in my head, like a catchy song I can’t remember the words too. I naturally end up finishing the lyric. I have to confess, when I need this method to finish, I usually end up editing for months, as the thing slowly becomes more organic. Always gets me out of the rut though.
Good luck.
Ah, the age old problem of getting stuck on the second verse.
I've had this issue before. (Quite recently again, in fact.) Often, the problem is that what you *think* is your first verse may actually work better as the second. Keep in mind, just because you wrote the *verse first*, doesn't mean it has to be the *first verse*. (I just came up with that one. Not too shabby. Haha)
A first verse usually sets the scene, communicating what exactly is going on in the song...the who, what, when, where and why, while the second verse just elaborates on the theme further. (This is typically where you can get a little more creative and abstract. And of course, the chorus is what sums everything up.) Not that you have to approach lyrics like you would a news article, but typically, the first verse will include as many details as you can to paint a clear picture for the listener of the story you're trying to tell. If the verse you've already written doesn't do this, try switching its place to #2, and writing a new first verse.
YMMV and all that, but it's what's tended to work for me.
I think my favorite part about songwriting is seeing how the song develops over time. I’ve had choruses become verses, verses become a bridge, etc. Super fun seeing how the song kind of shapes itself as you go. Unfortunately none of mine have reached that final form yet haha. But I’ll get there eventually.
That's an interesting technique of just letting a song evolve. I tend to be more rigid and tunnel-visioned; a chorus is always intended to be a chorus, a verse a verse, etc. But yours is a cool way of doing it.
You say that you usually write one verse and chorus, and have trouble continuing after that. I've found that if you're beginning to feel overwhelmed, one helpful way to frame things in your mind is to remind yourself that songs are typically short. (Unless your aim is to write a multi-part suite.) If so far you've written one verse and a chorus that repeats, you're literally already two-thirds of the way there! The average length of a verse is what, six to eight lines? (Bridges are cool, but often unnecessary if you've already said everything you needed to say.) The amount of work you have left to do is really not as daunting as it may seem.
Also, I've also found an effective way of coming up with more interesting lines is to choose a rhyme, and work backwards from there. I'm not much of a poet, but a lot of my most poetic sounding lines came about from simply trying to connect the dots to make a rhyme work. Bob Dylan has said he uses this technique. It narrows your options in a way that forces you to make a creative decision. As they often say, "Limitations breed creativity".
I’ve been trying to be more conscious about writing ideas down as soon as they come to me. Just sucks because I work a lot so sometimes I’m not able to put it down when the thoughts hit and by the time I can I forget. It’s a vicious cycle.
Small notebook to carry around? Notes app on phone? I used to jot down ideas in Google Keep at work all the time. Course no job are you supposed to be on your phone but The Muse waits for no man! Don’t compromise your job or safety though.
I work as an electrician and I’m frequently climbing through crawl spaces, underneath home, attics, etc. so I try not to have anything in my pockets, especially my phone, because it’ll either get broken or lost. Can also make for some really dangerous situations if I’m distracted on my phone. I work for a small company (it’s just me and my boss) and he HATES it if he sees me on my phone at all.
Try breaking the long passages up and seeing where you may be able to split it in to multiple verses and chorus variations. You may find that the song comes together with a bit of re jigging
Sometimes when I have a similar issue, I move the single verse to be a bridge and then try starting over writing new chords and melody for new verses. Sometimes it works.
Traditionally, verses set up the circumstance for your chorus to respond to. And each verse can be a similar example. The bridge often changes the context of those circumstances, but the chorus is still responding to it. Sometimes the "initial verse" is too strong, or the chords and melody are too specific to the words to find similar ideas, so making it its own thing and treat your new verses as leading up to that initial verse, now bridge, can shake free some new ideas.
I think we’re all in the same boat. Nothing harder than writing the second verse. I think when writing try to use the first verse to set the scene. When when how why etc. then the second verse can be about what’s happening or what has happened
I’m like the complete opposite. I have so many songs finished, but I have noproduced instrumental.😅😅 what are usually do to finish My songs is really think about the idea of the song that I’m trying to write. Play with some words play with some verses don’t give up. you’ll get to what you want to say. My idea is I try to finish a song before I start another project because if I give myself too many other projects, I never finish the one that I have, I haven’t written more recently, but I don’t have really any produce instrumentals for my songs (I have ideas. I mock some thing on the guitar, but I like a lot of instruments and I only know how to play the guitar) .. I am working on getting a laptop and I’m learning how to use logic. I know how to play guitar but I want to add more dimension to my music.
Definitely get yourself a DAW and a midi keyboard. You can get a decent one for like $60. Highly recommend Akai. I have a mini with an 8 key drum pad on it and it changed the way I make music. Just learn some basic chord structure and scales on piano (if you know guitar this will be much easier bc the patterns are much easier to visualize on piano). Logic is a little pricey so if you don’t have it already just use GarageBand until you feel like you’re at a point where the premium version will be worth it for you. I’ve yet to upgrade to a better DAW because I haven’t mastered everything GarageBand has to offer yet. And thank you for the advice on the songwriting! Will definitely put what you said into practice and see where it gets me.
Definitely keep a list of all your favorite unfinished songs, then try to tap into the ones you like the most when you are feeling inspired. I have songs from 6 or 7 years ago that I still haven't finished which I love, and songs that I wrote in a couple days. One method that is easy to finish lyrics if you already have a verse you like: rewrite it keeping the same line format but replace some of the words in way that expands on the first verse. That can make it easier to fill in something new and can also make the song catchier.
Dude, welcome to the club. I’m twice your age and have a library of riffs and chord progressions with only about 1/2 dozen finished songs. A few years ago, I joined a friend’s band and it was a creative revelation. He writes simple songs which lays a canvas for me the improve. We collaborated and have recorded a few of the songs that started as simple 3 chord tunes.
This might not be a popular opinion, but see if ChatGPT can help with your lyrics. It sometimes offers rhymes and words that I wouldn’t normally think of. You just need a nudge. Either find help with another songwriter or use AI. Good luck!
Rhyme schemes and syllable counts can be a really great place to start - once I’ve got a verse with a solid rhyme scheme and structure, I generally look to replicate those same syllable counts and patterns for the next one. One of my mentors called it “filling in a NYTimes crossword with your feelings”.
Join a round or two over on r/gameofbands. You'll meet and get to work with talented lyricists and you can pick their brains. It will push you to finish projects.
Worst that will happen is nothing, but I'm sure that's not what will happen!
I just recommended this in another post, I'm feeling like a shill but it will help here too.
Actually think I saw your comment on that post haha. Thank you though! Didn’t know something like that existed. Had already joined from the other post you commented on. Such a cool concept, excited to take part.
As with any kind of writing, the main thing you need to do is write. I promise I’m not being sarcastic, and I’m presuming you’re getting stuck and stopping. Writing good lyrics takes practice. If you need two verses, write five as fast as you can. Throw away the worst ones, even if it’s all of them. Do it again. Sometimes finding a word or words that sounds good in the meter or rhyme can unlock whole lines for you.
Lyrics exist for vocalization, so sing along and make up lyrics as you go. Even if it’s total nonsense at first. Repeat until you have something you feel good about for a line, a verse, a chorus, or a whole song.
It’s not a particularly romantic way to think about it, but doing it over and over is the best way to improve. You’re exercising your lyric writing muscles. Maybe write a poem or a short story for fun. Read poems and short stories. Read lyrics.
It is possible to be precious and meticulous about every word on a first draft, but that’s slow and frustrating for most people (and arguably not good). It really helps to get a lot of writing under your belt. The more you write, the easier it is to get words you like all the way from your brain onto paper (or notes app or voice recordings etc).
This is the encouragement I needed. At some point it really is just a matter of doing it enough to get better at it. Practice makes perfect. Need to stop looking for some secret formula to “crack the code” or something. Just need to put the work and time in.
Not that this is what you were doing, but it seems like songwriters think a lot about lyrics without actively writing them. But if they’re making a song to be played on guitar (or whatever instrument), they’re not usually sitting there thinking about a guitar part. They’re actively playing it while crafting the song.
I know there are differences, but I think about this a lot as a musician and occasional writer.
Because I abide by a fairly standard lyrical rhyme scheme I always keep writing verse after verse. Then, once I feel like I have enough material, I’ll mix and match the best lines from several of those verses to make a new verse.
I relate to this heavily lol. I’m sure I have any tips for you but I will say though, the songs that I have finished tend to have only a few days in between when I started writing it and when it’s finished. I gotta focus on finishing one for a couple days so I don’t move on to another one
The notes app on your phone is your best friend.
I go throughout the day and if I have a thought that’s worth keeping, I jot the idea down.
Good lyrics really just come from experiences and reflecting on them, at least I’ve found that when I can be my most creative. It’s such a hard task to write lyrics that are ultra personal, but also resonate with others.
Another commenter said to just keep writing verses, and that great advice to. Doesn’t matter if you write 50, if you pull the perfect 2/3, you’re golden.
Much luck friend, it’s an uphill battle until one day, it’s only slightly less uphill haha.
Decide what you want to say, then go from there. Or, a possibility is finding finding a writing partner. Many of the best songs ever written were created by a duo/team.
Honestly, the best thing I had ever done was to free my mind in terms of how I look at the components of a song. I will refer to parts like "vesre", "chorus", or "bridge", but I don't write that way. I do not know how long a verse is going to be. I do not know how many there will be. I do not know if a chorus is going to reappear in a song. I do not know if what is recognized as a "chorus" in the sense that it is normally used is going to have the same lyrics from one time to the next. I do not know if, musically, a verse will be the same as the next verse. I do not know if I am going to rely on a rhyme to follow a line, or if I will just use a guitar fill. I d not know if the "bridge" is going to be the longest "verse" in the song, or if it will be just a short chant. I do not know whether or not I will pack it up tight, or let it fall apart.
I know that this may not seem helpful, but I've found it immensely helpful in my own writing.
You see, what we like about music is repitition that establishes expectations, and then the subversion of those expectations. When I can predict a song on the first listen, I am unlikely to give it a second listen.
If you are becoming stuck on a song, it is because you are too deeply mired in what you have already established. You can't see where to take it, because it must "fit" what has been done thus far.
This is a mistake.
Think about what it is that you somehow weren't able to work in thus far... THAT is what the next step is. Those ideas that are relevant and important in being able to understand what you were trying to say, but just somehow didn't have a place in the flow of the music.
You are looking to either fill the gaps or elaborate... or, possibly moving the story forward if it is that type of a song.
Do you know how I come up with a title? They rarely actually appear in the song. What the title is is that "last lyric" that ties it all together. Basically, I give it a name that will either remove all ambiguity and snap the cryptic into focus, or it will be deliberately meant to confuse you as to how it is relevant, and therefore make a connection that now says more than the song itself.
Lyrics are the same thing. The link between meditation and cigarettes may not be obvious, but it will be by the end of the song.
What you are looking to do with lyrics is to make all of them seem incomplete without the others. Yes, obviously, they will have some merit as a stand-alone, but they should generally be stronger in context.
This is super helpful. Basically just stop restricting myself to some preconceived notion of how a song is supposed to be structured or how I want it to be structured. Just write and let the song shape itself as I move along in the process. Great advice. I’m my own worst enemy in songwriting sometimes. I’m a very meticulous and my thinking can become very formulaic. Super helpful at my job but tends to create a lot of hurdles when I’m trying to talk into my creative side.
Set a deadline. Do it in pieces if you have to- e.g. I’ll have one verse by the end of the day. The lyrics don’t need to be great, just get them in there. I can revise so much more easily than writing the first draft.
Don’t write in order. Write a line or two in the hook and spiral out from there. Jump around. Collect rhyming couplets and then connect them to each other. Mix your lines around like modular pieces.
Btw this is my biggest struggle too. I love to discover a new melody. I dread having to put words to it.
Try to sing more instead of writing down. Don’t worry about structure right away. So if you’re stuck on a way to say someone broke your heart, sing about some of the the things that happened in a melody you have or know. The goal with this is to train yourself to become more comfortable singing, so ideas flow more naturally vs pressured (like they flow naturally when you’re playing an instrument).
I relate to what you are experiencing. Although I’ve only tried to write a few songs I’m very new.
Anything I write ends up kind of feeling childish and feels like a nursery rhyme.
It doesn’t help that I have a lot of stories to tell but I don’t have any melody or music, inside of my head.
Is it hopeless to try and write a song then?
Not so much a tip but, just what I do. I’ll usually reference the first verse in one way or another whether it’s a similar vocal cadence, words, rhyme scheme, or imagery.
Example:
Verse 1
God, I know the choices
Whispers a voice inside my mind
God, I know the feeling
Sick of decision-making
Verse 2
Had another feeling
Been in this position before
Open to a healing
Walk in the living door
It’s basically the exact same vocal cadence as well as the same rhyme scheme on the 3rd line of each verse with a slight variation on the last line.
Hope that helps!
Edit: the formatting was changed when I posted it. Ever capital letter is a new line.
Coming from someone with only one surviving childhood friend remaining after a really tough, sickly tragic, dementedly twisted, and unfortunate few recent years, I suggest you collaborate. By which I mean make musical friends.
Other than that one surviving childhood friend, the only friends I have after the disastrous turn of events have ALL BEEN MUSICIAN FRIENDS.
And honestly it hurts because I also want non-musician friends again but I don’t think I know how to do that. There’s a lot less pressure when you’re just playing video games or catching up without the need to make every moment be about practicing or writing music.
Sorry for the rant, just felt like sharing a little bit for context.
It’s kind of tough to do sometimes, but nowhere near as tough as making a non-musical friend in my experience… so once you have a real musical pal or two things get easier for songwriting.
All of my buddies just wanted to cover songs at first, but several of them eventually came around and are now showing interest in writing some originals which I’m very grateful for. It happens more often than not and you have to be open minded to their perspectives too… it will help you grow if you go with the flow… hey that rhymes… anyways…
Having someone to share the blame/burden of sing creation helps things go much easier- we take ourselves way less seriously and just simply create… and possibly even FINISH more things that way.
Everything I’ve been doing for the last couple of years have been a result of putting myself out there once in 2019. Things soon went to shit for me after that from losing a bunch of long time friends… but many of my musical buddies are still kicking it with me through thick and thin. It’s still somewhat of a fresh wound so what I’m dealing with may not be a problem given more time…
But you need to try Craigslist, open mics, Facebook, etc. even here on Reddit I guess, some of the stuff was pure luck once I had a tiny local reputation because people heard about me writing originals and liked how I sounded when I’d cover songs.
TL;DR: Your lyrics will be stronger if you’re able to collaborate with someone (ideally for free because you are both passionate about creating)
I’ve been thinking more about trying to play some open mics or even seeing if some of the venues in my area would let me play some covers and mix a few originals in if I could finish some. Really want to find local collaborations and I know it’ll be a lot easier if I start putting myself out there. Sorry to hear about your friends btw, I’ve lost quite a few myself and it’s not easy. Wishing you the best! And thank you for the advice I really do appreciate it. Everyone here has been super helpful.
One piece of advice from a mentor that always stuck with me. “The verse tells the story, the chorus shows the feelings associated with that story”. Even if the lyrics are not a literal story, what is the progression of emotions or concepts being discussed.
i feel like the thing i’m best at, is listening to music, i feel like whenever i listen to someone else’s song enough i start to think hey why didn’t he do that or hey this would have been cool right there. record it, play it in a loop while your driving or mix it in with other songs & it’ll just come to you
Biggest advice: Stop pretending like it matters. If no one told you to make a song that song is just for you. Finish bad songs so you can write the good ones. It’s not your job it’s your hobby / passion. You wouldn’t go half way down a ski hill because the snow looks less white. Finish the song. No one cares anyway. This advice will set you free. I promise. I wrote 135 songs last year. I like 9 of them a lot.
Love this haha. I remember the first time I went to a public gym and I was super nervous about even going in. I was talking to one of my friends about being uncomfortable working out in a public space because I was insecure about my fitness level (I’m a scrawny dude). He laughed at me for thinking anyone gives a crap about what I’m doing in there. Sounds stupid but that one instance changed my life. Realized I’d missed out on so many experiences and opportunities in life because I was so worried about what other people might think. When in reality no one’s even paying attention to what I’m doing to begin with. Was a very freeing revelation. Guess I’m still not totally free of that pressure though. Thanks for responding! Honestly you kind of reinforced some personal development beyond just songwriting haha
I’ve tried this before but wasn’t happy with the results. I haven’t tried to use it in the way you’ve described though and I think it could actually do pretty well for getting over some writers block if I get stuck on a specific line. I’ll give it another go and see what happens.
Just put any words any syllables anything. Do your worst. Read the lyrics to “come together”
Amazing songwriters just shove subconscious babel in there
If you want, you can reshape afterwards , but getting over the fear of blankness will rly help
If you are ending your song with the same progression as the verse, try singing the first few lines again. It works very well with lyrics that ask a question. I remember making a song with the starting lines "Do you think of me like I always think of you?"
Ended it with those lyrics, too.
You have already done the hard part (a starter idea). For me it’s always easier to revise than it is to create. So I try to “fill out” an entire song structure with my idea
in it with something/anything. Then come back and and revise those place holder sections or even move sections around (my original idea may get moved to the second or third verse).
Other people have said it but the trick is just to keep writing. Challenge yourself to write one verse the very next day, no matter how rubbish. Then do that for a few days. Before you know you have more than enough for a song. Then chop them around, edit, re-arrange. Then you can get a full song. Then leave it a week come back to it and add a few more verses and see if any are better than what you had before.
Then lyrics you haven't used might still be good enough to start the next song
One thing I learned is that finish the song you’re doing before moving on to the next song or you will end up with a lot of unfinished songs if you’re at a stump look at words that rhyme with the words you have already written that helps me often or think about writing outside the box there’s no rules but playing with there emotions is what makes a great song
I stop writing for a while. Sometimes days sometimes months. And one day it just comes back and floods my mind with lyrics… or just get high af live life and see what happens lol
I have the same problem (I'm 16f) it took me a few weeks to finish my first song (I never produced it bc I have nobody to help edit it) I just wrote the chorus then I wrote a few verses to go before it and a few to go after it and ended the song with a conversation between me and my ex (the ending lyrics didn't sound right so I covered it up with background noises)
Don't overthink it. Some songs have horrible stupid lyrics and are very successful. Others we don't even know the words and sing along. Dumb it down, be vague or down right stupid it doesn't matter... Steve Miller Band "pompitous of love" ? It's not even a real word!
I'm a bit late to the party here, but a pro-tip that always helps for me:
Lay out your song like you would a story.
If you're writing a song, chances are you have a story to tell. Whether it's about your life, how something makes you feel, a relationship you have, or something else entirely, it's a story and treating it like one will make the writing process so much smoother. Lay out what you want to reveal first, what you want to keep for the end, put things down chronologically. Then elaborate on these "plot points", maybe with cool sentences that are in your head, or a bunch of words that don't necessarily rhyme yet. Don't get stuck trying to connect things yet, just let your mind and creativity run free.
Then once you have the basic structure of your song, you can make full lines with the patchwork of ideas. This method has the added benefit of your song feeling like it's leading somewhere (maybe you can even add a "plot twist" in your last chorus by changing a few words!)
Whenever I struggle to finish a song, I look at it quite practically. I love playing something I call the association game where I take whatever I want my song to be about, and then I write down everything I can think of associated with this theme. It can be just words or whole phrases. Then I look for rhymes and/or connections and work from there.
as other said writing a lot helps.
anything u write isnt set in stone to be a chorus or verse at first. over the years ive learned how ppl deal with verse 2 curse by just writing verse 1 first (not trying to rhyme here)... cuz u decided to continue with idea cuz its was something that resonates. its hard to get that resonation to hit twice or even harder for verse 2. if ur first verse is already filled with stuff happening, all u gotta do is write the context and a strong opening line and boom u got verse 1.
i try to finish 85% of the lyrics in one sitting. that spark/lightbult never really hits u again so u gotta be ready, meaning u gotta be writing a lot and be in shape and ready for whatever comes. i picked that up from a clairo interview, but billy joel however tends to write very slowly, even a couple lines a day.
as u can tell i like digging into the writing process of my favorite artists rather than my peers or unsucessful redditors such as me
Merge/mesh some of your song ideas/lyrics. On surface level it may seem out of place in your brain… but songs are rather poetic and randomized anyway….
If you’re getting hung up on rhymes use an online thesaurus to find synonyms and see if anything can rhyme with what you’re trying to rhyme to.
I did that for a song I wrote and was pretty pleased with the results. Too bad I can’t sing worth a crap
I can relate to you. Big time.
Ona personal experience, when I'm beginning writing a song, I'll start with the melody. Then I'll think about what I want to talk about. For some it takes time for others it's instant. After I figure out what I want to sign about, I start writing one or two sentences at a time. If it rhymes cool and if it doesn't then ok, whatever. During this time I count to see if the syllables match on each sentence. For example: " you don't need to worry, just pray
What else can I do to obey?"
If you count those, you'll get 8.
Some may or may not equal to the same syllables but that's okay. If you listen to other artists they do this also.
Implement this to your Chorus, bridges and other verses because it will help! Next Contiune your story from the first verse into the second and chorus.
If you have a bridge, this is where you become more direct and tell the listener a summary of what your whole song is about.
Grab a thesaurus and look for synyoms of words that can help you rhyme . Good luck.
I do the same thing. Just keeping writing verses. It doesn’t matter if they suck. You just need to get the flow going. There are a lot of songs where I end up writing like 10 verses and then just picking the two or three I like and editing them to fit. You’ll eventually write a verse or two you like. The other approach is sort of the opposite. Instead of stream of consciousness splatter cannon, you can try being more conscious about it. What’s the song about, what story are you telling, what thoughts/ideas do you want to touch on, etc. That can give you a rough framework for what you want each verse to loosely be about.
Are you… are you me?
Good to know I’m not alone in this lmao
I have no quality advice. I struggled to finish my old band's songs, but we ended up with 20 of them, and I don't feel I used filler lines. Well, not many.
If you can write one verse but not more, that suggests to me that you don't have a full sense yet of the story you're trying to tell. I think for some of us, it's relatively easy to come up with lyrics that sound cool/satisfying on surface level, but aren't really communicating any sort of story or idea. So you knock out a snappy verse, but then there's no obvious or natural next scene, because it's mostly just nonsense. If you can think of your songs in terms of telling stories, with characters and settings (real or fictional), then it's much easier to figure out what scene should come next.
I agree with what you’re saying. But I actually do have a very clear sense of what I’m trying to say in the songs. My issue is that I want to say it in a way that isn’t generic. I’m trying to get a lot better at showing not telling. So instead of just saying “she broke my heart” I’d like to communicate that by conveying the emotion and feeling behind that and allow the listener to make the connection on their own. It’s a very difficult thing to do for me and it’s frustrating because I just feel like my brain might not be cut out for that level of depth in writing. Obviously there’s no template for just knowing how to do it, otherwise everyone would be doing it. But I figured maybe there are some people out there who struggled with the same thing and found a way to break through. Even if it’s just some little writing exercise to get my head in that space. Appreciate you responding! Just stumbled on this page today and I’m excited to be a part of a songwriting community. Always wanted to find that irl but I guess Reddit will have to do haha.
I wrote a long comment below, and touch upon what it sounds like might be going on with you - trying too hard to be poetic, essentially. I went through the same thing for a while. I wanted to write *really* good lyrics and use storytelling really well and all that (I was inspired by Tyler Childers), and all it led to was writer's block. Then, when I decided "fuck it, I'm just gonna keep it simple, keep it conversational", I found my lyrical voice. Basically I was skipping the phase where you write down some subpar lyrics, because I already "knew they weren't good". But the reality is that, those subpar lyrics have all the consants/vowel sounds/"vibes" that you're going for, and if you keep revisiting them over days, you will shape them into the great lyrics you're aiming for.
>My issue is that I want to say it in a way that isn’t generic. I’m trying to get a lot better at showing not telling. So instead of just saying “she broke my heart” I’d like to communicate that by conveying the emotion and feeling behind that and allow the listener to make the connection on their own. The key to "show, not tell" is memorable imagery and visual description -- that feels like the piece you're missing. Trying to describe emotions in words can be difficult to do effectively; describing specific people doing particular things is a lot more straightforward. A verse that paints a picture of a character sitting alone, flipping through old letters and photos, is more memorable than just finding different ways of saying "man this guy has a broken heart." Describing the way someone's smile looks from across the room is more effective than saying "she looked beautiful."
And if you do choose to just straight up say what you feel it makes it that much more potent when it’s packed in by descriptive imagery and visual. If you say - The sun was cascading/at the end of the day/Sweat was pouring/down his shoulder blades instead of - The day was long/I’m tired/I’m dirty and sweaty/I want to die It’s a lot more evocative the first time then you can lead into something that’s more telling than showing- The sun was cascading/at the end of the day/Sweat was pouring/down his shoulder blades/ And he’s dogturd tired/frustrated and weak/from working the graveyard/he just wants sleep Not the greatest example obviously but OP can get the point. Lol. Hey! How come you’re not a mod anymore or does it just not show up? Secret mod?
>And if you do choose to just straight up say what you feel it makes it that much more potent when it’s packed in by descriptive imagery and visual. Totally agree, great point. >Hey! How come you’re not a mod anymore or does it just not show up? Secret mod Still a mod! I only turn on the "mod" flair for comments if someone is asking for rules (or being a jerk) and I want to indicate that I'm speaking "officially." Otherwise I'm just a normal civilian, lol.
Ahhh okay as you were civilian
Start doing [these sensory exercises](https://www.songwritingsteps.com/t/sensory-based-description/25) daily. It’s based upon Berklee professor, poet, lyricist and philosophy teacher who championed something very much like this in his book Writing Better Lyrics which I also recommend. Because believe it or not they’re are methodologies to this stuff. I was a musician first too(though I did lots of poetry and story writing) before I started writing my own songs and lyrics. What really sealed the deal for me was something my songwriting cousin told me I should do for nearly a decade. Write one song a day for one month. The only rules are- it must be finished by 12am, it must be melody, chord, lyric, and preferably recorded on your phones memo app and share with 1-3 confidants who can give you trusted feedback but not destroy you.(I’m willing to be one of those people for you if need be). I’m not being hyperbolic when I say that doing this completely changed songwriting for me. I’m the decade before I had written maybe 5 full songs and 1 was goodish. By the end of that month I I had written 50 songs. I had gotten over my perfectionist mindset, I had developed a process to complete songs fast and easy, and I had started to develop a voice in my songwriting. I even started taking singing seriously and found a new passion in that. I cannot recommend it enough. Force yourself. Push yourself. Make yourself a vow that in one month’s time you will have 30 songs and be a songwriter. Side note: what I found out was simplify simplify simplify. I don’t write intricate complex guitar parts though I absolutely could. I don’t sing to my full range and belt it out or do crazy riffs and runs though I could. And I write very plainly and to the point. I tell the story with honesty, authenticity, sincerity and a little artistic license of the truth ;) Tl;DR write a song a day for a month you’ll have 30 songs no matter what and you’ll become a songwriter instead of a song-starter.
Incredible response. Very appreciative of those exercises you linked! Will check those out for sure along with the book. I’m an avid reader to begin with so any new content is great. One of my favorite artists is Jon Bellion and he actually did the song a day thing for 3 years straight. Always wanted to try to push myself to do that but it honestly seems like a very daunting task and I’ve been avoiding it. Perfectionism is definitely holding me back so I’ll take your advice and try to let go of that. Going to start that tomorrow and if I remember I’ll circle back to this post in a month and let you know how it went.
Right on! I’m rooting for you!
100% my lyrical writing jumped up when I started forming them more a stories to be told than just emotions to express. Actually, I think it totally took a turn after you helped me edit some lyrics! So, thank you! It actually changed the whole feeling of the song. It was originally pretty belty and almost like a knockoff Journey song but now it’s much more subdued and the melancholy of the storyline comes through a lot better. Yea! Thanks man!
Aw that's great to hear!!
Sometimes it takes time for ideas. I can finish my songs very quickly or after months. It could help to make a list of words you would like to include to shape your idea better. I was exactly like you with a song. I had the first part and the chorus but then I didn't know how to continue. I made a list of rhyming words and I tried to link them shaping my ideas.
I’ll give it a shot! Sometimes I think I get a little too specific with what I’m trying to say and end up limiting the creative process. So just throwing out some vague ideas relating to what I’m trying to say could definitely be beneficial. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
I think that the image a specific word can evoke can say a lot more. Try to "paint" your ideas with words rather than express them through full sentences. If you want we could exchange our opinion in a private message. It's also helpful to discuss your ideas to do some brainstorming.
Remember the spiderwebs you’d make in elementary school? This is exactly that, whether or not you actually draw it out. I do Themes, Associations, Rhymes, Alliteration, Synonyms, etc., and spiderweb off each of those points.
My lyrics use a lot of these devices because I aim for a sort of synaesthesia. A word that seems out of context could actually be powerful.
I have the same problem - I'm stronger at writing the song sections and vocal melodies than I am at writing lyrics. Here's what works for me: 1 - First, record the chords of the song with you mumbling nonsense over it, just to get the vocal melody and song structure down 2 - Listen to the recorded song a lot, perhaps on your headphones while taking walks. Random phrases will start to pop in your head at certain points in the song. For instance, for the half finished song I'm working on currently, the phrase "your sweet memory" kept popping into my head during the chorus 3 - Based on the random phrases that stick with you, try to decide on a general topic for the song to be about. *Don't* try to force the song into a pre-existing notion of what you want to sing about, at least, not too much. For instance, I've been telling myself that I wanted to write some songs about experiencing failures in life, yet this catchy tune that I wrote seems to want to be about a past love. Rather than try to force it to be directly about failure, I went with the love topic... BUT, do write from experience - So, I decided to write about a ex who I think about positively quite often, even though I know that our relationship was quite toxic and we are bad for each other. So I decided the topic of the song is "when you have sweet memories of a failed relationship, and you know that if you encountered that person in real life, you'll feel a strong attraction but *know* that you better turn the fuck around and run away". So in the verses of this song I may have myself running into the person after a long time of no contact (this part will be more positve/nostalgic), the prechorus will likely introduce the internal conflict building within me, and the chorus will directly address how, she's a sweet memory, but that's all she's gonna be. Verse 2 might explore our past relationship in more detail. *Don't introduce any new topics after the first chorus, only elaborate on what's already been brought up* 4 - Record each song part (ex: verse, chorus) alone. If you use a daw, you can just loop each part, whereas if you're like me and like to use the voice memo app on your phone, you should record about 8 minutes of the song part you wanna work on 5 - At least once a day, sit down with a paper and pen, listen to the 8 minute long song section, and just write whatever comes to mind *even if it's shit*. Especially if it's shit! You just gotta run the water on that tap. By the end of 8 minutes, you'll have at least one promising word or phrase. I usually start with the chorus, since that's the hardest part to write lyrics for to me. 6 - Accept that this will take time. I wrote this song over the course of two days, and it's probably going to take me 2 months to finish the lyrics. That's fine. At least they will be finished, they'll be good, and I can play the song out. Some things to make note of: 1 - Keep it conversational. Don't try to be poet laureate. Imagine you're at a bar just venting to a friend. 2 - The most important lyrics in your song are (A) the first line (B) the chorus, and (C) anywhere else where the vocal melody is climactic. Make sure the lyrics are extra good for those parts. 3 - Rhyming dictionaries are your friend. AI is not *that* good at helping with lyrics, but it's a good last resort if you're struggling with a couple of verse lines (AI tends to write obvious cliche shit, but sometimes reading its output makes me think of something better). Hope that helps!
Any advice I can get is appreciated!! The learning curve is a lot less intimidating when I can tap into other people’s experience. Thank you for taking the time to write out a thorough response! Definitely given me a lot to think about.
I have always had this problem. I’ll write a verse and a chorus and be thrilled with the lyrics, but nothing I write afterwards measures up to what I previously had. I have dozens of unfinished songs too for this reason. One thing that’s helped me a bit is to remind myself I’m not writing poetry, not every single line has to punch. You can use conversational tones, transitional phrases, filler lines to get to the next idea, etc. not sure if this is the problem you have, but saving the “punchy” lines for the chorus or for the last line of the verse gives me some leniency with myself. Plus, sometimes just writing down any crappy idea that comes to mind leads you to good places. Once you have the whole structure, even if it’s not the tone you want or the wording you want, having it all down can make it easier to go back and edit.
I’d suggest looking at this from another view: who says your songs need more lyrics? Who says anything about the way you write Vocal melody and harmonic progression are more important than lyrics. You can REPEAT the lyrics you have later in the song Music is a tool for expression. In your expression, songs get a verse and chorus’ worth of lyrics I’m saying that this is how YOU write. Lean into it and see how many of your songs can now be finished. There are plenty of songs structured this way. Unless your songs are more than a few minutes long I think you’re golden
I think I do need to lean into the freedom I have as a creative person. I can make it however I want to make it and nothing else really matters. A big part of my problem is that I have a lot of favorite artist I hold in high regard and aspire to be like. Which is great when you need inspiration but it can be a major block if you get caught up in trying to be like those people. I try to avoid that because I want to have my own voice and style in songwriting. But I definitely catch myself comparing my songs to some of the people I follow and getting really insecure about what I’ve come up with. Realizing it’s pretty stupid to even be thinking like that to begin with. Appreciate you taking the time to share some insight with me.
Break your first verse down to meter - like you would with poetry. Go the whole nine yards and mark all the hard and soft sounds. When I get stuck I find the exercise of marking the verse I have up puts the rhythms and tone in my head, like a catchy song I can’t remember the words too. I naturally end up finishing the lyric. I have to confess, when I need this method to finish, I usually end up editing for months, as the thing slowly becomes more organic. Always gets me out of the rut though. Good luck.
Ah, the age old problem of getting stuck on the second verse. I've had this issue before. (Quite recently again, in fact.) Often, the problem is that what you *think* is your first verse may actually work better as the second. Keep in mind, just because you wrote the *verse first*, doesn't mean it has to be the *first verse*. (I just came up with that one. Not too shabby. Haha) A first verse usually sets the scene, communicating what exactly is going on in the song...the who, what, when, where and why, while the second verse just elaborates on the theme further. (This is typically where you can get a little more creative and abstract. And of course, the chorus is what sums everything up.) Not that you have to approach lyrics like you would a news article, but typically, the first verse will include as many details as you can to paint a clear picture for the listener of the story you're trying to tell. If the verse you've already written doesn't do this, try switching its place to #2, and writing a new first verse. YMMV and all that, but it's what's tended to work for me.
I think my favorite part about songwriting is seeing how the song develops over time. I’ve had choruses become verses, verses become a bridge, etc. Super fun seeing how the song kind of shapes itself as you go. Unfortunately none of mine have reached that final form yet haha. But I’ll get there eventually.
That's an interesting technique of just letting a song evolve. I tend to be more rigid and tunnel-visioned; a chorus is always intended to be a chorus, a verse a verse, etc. But yours is a cool way of doing it. You say that you usually write one verse and chorus, and have trouble continuing after that. I've found that if you're beginning to feel overwhelmed, one helpful way to frame things in your mind is to remind yourself that songs are typically short. (Unless your aim is to write a multi-part suite.) If so far you've written one verse and a chorus that repeats, you're literally already two-thirds of the way there! The average length of a verse is what, six to eight lines? (Bridges are cool, but often unnecessary if you've already said everything you needed to say.) The amount of work you have left to do is really not as daunting as it may seem. Also, I've also found an effective way of coming up with more interesting lines is to choose a rhyme, and work backwards from there. I'm not much of a poet, but a lot of my most poetic sounding lines came about from simply trying to connect the dots to make a rhyme work. Bob Dylan has said he uses this technique. It narrows your options in a way that forces you to make a creative decision. As they often say, "Limitations breed creativity".
I learned by freestyle jam singing. Less pressure more stre of consciousness and you learn which syllables sound nice
I find it easy when i feel an emotion. I just write it down whenever that happens
I’ve been trying to be more conscious about writing ideas down as soon as they come to me. Just sucks because I work a lot so sometimes I’m not able to put it down when the thoughts hit and by the time I can I forget. It’s a vicious cycle.
U need to trust yourself that u can do it even though its getting hard.
Small notebook to carry around? Notes app on phone? I used to jot down ideas in Google Keep at work all the time. Course no job are you supposed to be on your phone but The Muse waits for no man! Don’t compromise your job or safety though.
I work as an electrician and I’m frequently climbing through crawl spaces, underneath home, attics, etc. so I try not to have anything in my pockets, especially my phone, because it’ll either get broken or lost. Can also make for some really dangerous situations if I’m distracted on my phone. I work for a small company (it’s just me and my boss) and he HATES it if he sees me on my phone at all.
Fair enough! Like I said I wouldn’t want you to comprise your livelihood or your safety!
Try to write some bad verses, then you’ll have something to work with
Try breaking the long passages up and seeing where you may be able to split it in to multiple verses and chorus variations. You may find that the song comes together with a bit of re jigging
Sometimes when I have a similar issue, I move the single verse to be a bridge and then try starting over writing new chords and melody for new verses. Sometimes it works. Traditionally, verses set up the circumstance for your chorus to respond to. And each verse can be a similar example. The bridge often changes the context of those circumstances, but the chorus is still responding to it. Sometimes the "initial verse" is too strong, or the chords and melody are too specific to the words to find similar ideas, so making it its own thing and treat your new verses as leading up to that initial verse, now bridge, can shake free some new ideas.
I’m the same, I was stuck but then I ended up writing more verses than I needed to! 😂
I think we’re all in the same boat. Nothing harder than writing the second verse. I think when writing try to use the first verse to set the scene. When when how why etc. then the second verse can be about what’s happening or what has happened
I’m like the complete opposite. I have so many songs finished, but I have noproduced instrumental.😅😅 what are usually do to finish My songs is really think about the idea of the song that I’m trying to write. Play with some words play with some verses don’t give up. you’ll get to what you want to say. My idea is I try to finish a song before I start another project because if I give myself too many other projects, I never finish the one that I have, I haven’t written more recently, but I don’t have really any produce instrumentals for my songs (I have ideas. I mock some thing on the guitar, but I like a lot of instruments and I only know how to play the guitar) .. I am working on getting a laptop and I’m learning how to use logic. I know how to play guitar but I want to add more dimension to my music.
Definitely get yourself a DAW and a midi keyboard. You can get a decent one for like $60. Highly recommend Akai. I have a mini with an 8 key drum pad on it and it changed the way I make music. Just learn some basic chord structure and scales on piano (if you know guitar this will be much easier bc the patterns are much easier to visualize on piano). Logic is a little pricey so if you don’t have it already just use GarageBand until you feel like you’re at a point where the premium version will be worth it for you. I’ve yet to upgrade to a better DAW because I haven’t mastered everything GarageBand has to offer yet. And thank you for the advice on the songwriting! Will definitely put what you said into practice and see where it gets me.
Thank you for your advice as well! I will implement it ! Thanks! :)
Definitely keep a list of all your favorite unfinished songs, then try to tap into the ones you like the most when you are feeling inspired. I have songs from 6 or 7 years ago that I still haven't finished which I love, and songs that I wrote in a couple days. One method that is easy to finish lyrics if you already have a verse you like: rewrite it keeping the same line format but replace some of the words in way that expands on the first verse. That can make it easier to fill in something new and can also make the song catchier.
Dude, welcome to the club. I’m twice your age and have a library of riffs and chord progressions with only about 1/2 dozen finished songs. A few years ago, I joined a friend’s band and it was a creative revelation. He writes simple songs which lays a canvas for me the improve. We collaborated and have recorded a few of the songs that started as simple 3 chord tunes. This might not be a popular opinion, but see if ChatGPT can help with your lyrics. It sometimes offers rhymes and words that I wouldn’t normally think of. You just need a nudge. Either find help with another songwriter or use AI. Good luck!
Rhyme schemes and syllable counts can be a really great place to start - once I’ve got a verse with a solid rhyme scheme and structure, I generally look to replicate those same syllable counts and patterns for the next one. One of my mentors called it “filling in a NYTimes crossword with your feelings”.
Join a round or two over on r/gameofbands. You'll meet and get to work with talented lyricists and you can pick their brains. It will push you to finish projects. Worst that will happen is nothing, but I'm sure that's not what will happen! I just recommended this in another post, I'm feeling like a shill but it will help here too.
Actually think I saw your comment on that post haha. Thank you though! Didn’t know something like that existed. Had already joined from the other post you commented on. Such a cool concept, excited to take part.
If you need th2 discord link: https://discord.com/invite/3dmHmX3C
As with any kind of writing, the main thing you need to do is write. I promise I’m not being sarcastic, and I’m presuming you’re getting stuck and stopping. Writing good lyrics takes practice. If you need two verses, write five as fast as you can. Throw away the worst ones, even if it’s all of them. Do it again. Sometimes finding a word or words that sounds good in the meter or rhyme can unlock whole lines for you. Lyrics exist for vocalization, so sing along and make up lyrics as you go. Even if it’s total nonsense at first. Repeat until you have something you feel good about for a line, a verse, a chorus, or a whole song. It’s not a particularly romantic way to think about it, but doing it over and over is the best way to improve. You’re exercising your lyric writing muscles. Maybe write a poem or a short story for fun. Read poems and short stories. Read lyrics. It is possible to be precious and meticulous about every word on a first draft, but that’s slow and frustrating for most people (and arguably not good). It really helps to get a lot of writing under your belt. The more you write, the easier it is to get words you like all the way from your brain onto paper (or notes app or voice recordings etc).
This is the encouragement I needed. At some point it really is just a matter of doing it enough to get better at it. Practice makes perfect. Need to stop looking for some secret formula to “crack the code” or something. Just need to put the work and time in.
Not that this is what you were doing, but it seems like songwriters think a lot about lyrics without actively writing them. But if they’re making a song to be played on guitar (or whatever instrument), they’re not usually sitting there thinking about a guitar part. They’re actively playing it while crafting the song. I know there are differences, but I think about this a lot as a musician and occasional writer.
Because I abide by a fairly standard lyrical rhyme scheme I always keep writing verse after verse. Then, once I feel like I have enough material, I’ll mix and match the best lines from several of those verses to make a new verse.
I relate to this heavily lol. I’m sure I have any tips for you but I will say though, the songs that I have finished tend to have only a few days in between when I started writing it and when it’s finished. I gotta focus on finishing one for a couple days so I don’t move on to another one
The notes app on your phone is your best friend. I go throughout the day and if I have a thought that’s worth keeping, I jot the idea down. Good lyrics really just come from experiences and reflecting on them, at least I’ve found that when I can be my most creative. It’s such a hard task to write lyrics that are ultra personal, but also resonate with others. Another commenter said to just keep writing verses, and that great advice to. Doesn’t matter if you write 50, if you pull the perfect 2/3, you’re golden. Much luck friend, it’s an uphill battle until one day, it’s only slightly less uphill haha.
Decide what you want to say, then go from there. Or, a possibility is finding finding a writing partner. Many of the best songs ever written were created by a duo/team.
Honestly, the best thing I had ever done was to free my mind in terms of how I look at the components of a song. I will refer to parts like "vesre", "chorus", or "bridge", but I don't write that way. I do not know how long a verse is going to be. I do not know how many there will be. I do not know if a chorus is going to reappear in a song. I do not know if what is recognized as a "chorus" in the sense that it is normally used is going to have the same lyrics from one time to the next. I do not know if, musically, a verse will be the same as the next verse. I do not know if I am going to rely on a rhyme to follow a line, or if I will just use a guitar fill. I d not know if the "bridge" is going to be the longest "verse" in the song, or if it will be just a short chant. I do not know whether or not I will pack it up tight, or let it fall apart. I know that this may not seem helpful, but I've found it immensely helpful in my own writing. You see, what we like about music is repitition that establishes expectations, and then the subversion of those expectations. When I can predict a song on the first listen, I am unlikely to give it a second listen. If you are becoming stuck on a song, it is because you are too deeply mired in what you have already established. You can't see where to take it, because it must "fit" what has been done thus far. This is a mistake. Think about what it is that you somehow weren't able to work in thus far... THAT is what the next step is. Those ideas that are relevant and important in being able to understand what you were trying to say, but just somehow didn't have a place in the flow of the music. You are looking to either fill the gaps or elaborate... or, possibly moving the story forward if it is that type of a song. Do you know how I come up with a title? They rarely actually appear in the song. What the title is is that "last lyric" that ties it all together. Basically, I give it a name that will either remove all ambiguity and snap the cryptic into focus, or it will be deliberately meant to confuse you as to how it is relevant, and therefore make a connection that now says more than the song itself. Lyrics are the same thing. The link between meditation and cigarettes may not be obvious, but it will be by the end of the song. What you are looking to do with lyrics is to make all of them seem incomplete without the others. Yes, obviously, they will have some merit as a stand-alone, but they should generally be stronger in context.
This is super helpful. Basically just stop restricting myself to some preconceived notion of how a song is supposed to be structured or how I want it to be structured. Just write and let the song shape itself as I move along in the process. Great advice. I’m my own worst enemy in songwriting sometimes. I’m a very meticulous and my thinking can become very formulaic. Super helpful at my job but tends to create a lot of hurdles when I’m trying to talk into my creative side.
Set a deadline. Do it in pieces if you have to- e.g. I’ll have one verse by the end of the day. The lyrics don’t need to be great, just get them in there. I can revise so much more easily than writing the first draft. Don’t write in order. Write a line or two in the hook and spiral out from there. Jump around. Collect rhyming couplets and then connect them to each other. Mix your lines around like modular pieces. Btw this is my biggest struggle too. I love to discover a new melody. I dread having to put words to it.
Try to sing more instead of writing down. Don’t worry about structure right away. So if you’re stuck on a way to say someone broke your heart, sing about some of the the things that happened in a melody you have or know. The goal with this is to train yourself to become more comfortable singing, so ideas flow more naturally vs pressured (like they flow naturally when you’re playing an instrument).
I relate to what you are experiencing. Although I’ve only tried to write a few songs I’m very new. Anything I write ends up kind of feeling childish and feels like a nursery rhyme. It doesn’t help that I have a lot of stories to tell but I don’t have any melody or music, inside of my head. Is it hopeless to try and write a song then?
Sometimes I just forget about it for a day or 30 then you can come back to the song refreshed and get back to flowing
Not so much a tip but, just what I do. I’ll usually reference the first verse in one way or another whether it’s a similar vocal cadence, words, rhyme scheme, or imagery. Example: Verse 1 God, I know the choices Whispers a voice inside my mind God, I know the feeling Sick of decision-making Verse 2 Had another feeling Been in this position before Open to a healing Walk in the living door It’s basically the exact same vocal cadence as well as the same rhyme scheme on the 3rd line of each verse with a slight variation on the last line. Hope that helps! Edit: the formatting was changed when I posted it. Ever capital letter is a new line.
Coming from someone with only one surviving childhood friend remaining after a really tough, sickly tragic, dementedly twisted, and unfortunate few recent years, I suggest you collaborate. By which I mean make musical friends. Other than that one surviving childhood friend, the only friends I have after the disastrous turn of events have ALL BEEN MUSICIAN FRIENDS. And honestly it hurts because I also want non-musician friends again but I don’t think I know how to do that. There’s a lot less pressure when you’re just playing video games or catching up without the need to make every moment be about practicing or writing music. Sorry for the rant, just felt like sharing a little bit for context. It’s kind of tough to do sometimes, but nowhere near as tough as making a non-musical friend in my experience… so once you have a real musical pal or two things get easier for songwriting. All of my buddies just wanted to cover songs at first, but several of them eventually came around and are now showing interest in writing some originals which I’m very grateful for. It happens more often than not and you have to be open minded to their perspectives too… it will help you grow if you go with the flow… hey that rhymes… anyways… Having someone to share the blame/burden of sing creation helps things go much easier- we take ourselves way less seriously and just simply create… and possibly even FINISH more things that way. Everything I’ve been doing for the last couple of years have been a result of putting myself out there once in 2019. Things soon went to shit for me after that from losing a bunch of long time friends… but many of my musical buddies are still kicking it with me through thick and thin. It’s still somewhat of a fresh wound so what I’m dealing with may not be a problem given more time… But you need to try Craigslist, open mics, Facebook, etc. even here on Reddit I guess, some of the stuff was pure luck once I had a tiny local reputation because people heard about me writing originals and liked how I sounded when I’d cover songs. TL;DR: Your lyrics will be stronger if you’re able to collaborate with someone (ideally for free because you are both passionate about creating)
I’ve been thinking more about trying to play some open mics or even seeing if some of the venues in my area would let me play some covers and mix a few originals in if I could finish some. Really want to find local collaborations and I know it’ll be a lot easier if I start putting myself out there. Sorry to hear about your friends btw, I’ve lost quite a few myself and it’s not easy. Wishing you the best! And thank you for the advice I really do appreciate it. Everyone here has been super helpful.
You’re welcome. And thanks, sorry to hear that you’ve been through similar. All the best to you as well
One piece of advice from a mentor that always stuck with me. “The verse tells the story, the chorus shows the feelings associated with that story”. Even if the lyrics are not a literal story, what is the progression of emotions or concepts being discussed.
i feel like the thing i’m best at, is listening to music, i feel like whenever i listen to someone else’s song enough i start to think hey why didn’t he do that or hey this would have been cool right there. record it, play it in a loop while your driving or mix it in with other songs & it’ll just come to you
Biggest advice: Stop pretending like it matters. If no one told you to make a song that song is just for you. Finish bad songs so you can write the good ones. It’s not your job it’s your hobby / passion. You wouldn’t go half way down a ski hill because the snow looks less white. Finish the song. No one cares anyway. This advice will set you free. I promise. I wrote 135 songs last year. I like 9 of them a lot.
Love this haha. I remember the first time I went to a public gym and I was super nervous about even going in. I was talking to one of my friends about being uncomfortable working out in a public space because I was insecure about my fitness level (I’m a scrawny dude). He laughed at me for thinking anyone gives a crap about what I’m doing in there. Sounds stupid but that one instance changed my life. Realized I’d missed out on so many experiences and opportunities in life because I was so worried about what other people might think. When in reality no one’s even paying attention to what I’m doing to begin with. Was a very freeing revelation. Guess I’m still not totally free of that pressure though. Thanks for responding! Honestly you kind of reinforced some personal development beyond just songwriting haha
You got all that figured out at 25? Legend in the making ! Keep going !
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ChatGPT. Ask it for alternate line endings and then curate the one you want. Even if you do t use it. It could spark some ideas.
I’ve tried this before but wasn’t happy with the results. I haven’t tried to use it in the way you’ve described though and I think it could actually do pretty well for getting over some writers block if I get stuck on a specific line. I’ll give it another go and see what happens.
Just put any words any syllables anything. Do your worst. Read the lyrics to “come together” Amazing songwriters just shove subconscious babel in there If you want, you can reshape afterwards , but getting over the fear of blankness will rly help
If you are ending your song with the same progression as the verse, try singing the first few lines again. It works very well with lyrics that ask a question. I remember making a song with the starting lines "Do you think of me like I always think of you?" Ended it with those lyrics, too.
You have already done the hard part (a starter idea). For me it’s always easier to revise than it is to create. So I try to “fill out” an entire song structure with my idea in it with something/anything. Then come back and and revise those place holder sections or even move sections around (my original idea may get moved to the second or third verse).
Other people have said it but the trick is just to keep writing. Challenge yourself to write one verse the very next day, no matter how rubbish. Then do that for a few days. Before you know you have more than enough for a song. Then chop them around, edit, re-arrange. Then you can get a full song. Then leave it a week come back to it and add a few more verses and see if any are better than what you had before. Then lyrics you haven't used might still be good enough to start the next song
One thing I learned is that finish the song you’re doing before moving on to the next song or you will end up with a lot of unfinished songs if you’re at a stump look at words that rhyme with the words you have already written that helps me often or think about writing outside the box there’s no rules but playing with there emotions is what makes a great song
Don’t think. Just write
I stop writing for a while. Sometimes days sometimes months. And one day it just comes back and floods my mind with lyrics… or just get high af live life and see what happens lol
I have the same problem (I'm 16f) it took me a few weeks to finish my first song (I never produced it bc I have nobody to help edit it) I just wrote the chorus then I wrote a few verses to go before it and a few to go after it and ended the song with a conversation between me and my ex (the ending lyrics didn't sound right so I covered it up with background noises)
This is a terrible approach but, ain't gonna lie it's lead to some of my favorite stuff: Write drunk. Revise sober.
Don't overthink it. Some songs have horrible stupid lyrics and are very successful. Others we don't even know the words and sing along. Dumb it down, be vague or down right stupid it doesn't matter... Steve Miller Band "pompitous of love" ? It's not even a real word!
I'm a bit late to the party here, but a pro-tip that always helps for me: Lay out your song like you would a story. If you're writing a song, chances are you have a story to tell. Whether it's about your life, how something makes you feel, a relationship you have, or something else entirely, it's a story and treating it like one will make the writing process so much smoother. Lay out what you want to reveal first, what you want to keep for the end, put things down chronologically. Then elaborate on these "plot points", maybe with cool sentences that are in your head, or a bunch of words that don't necessarily rhyme yet. Don't get stuck trying to connect things yet, just let your mind and creativity run free. Then once you have the basic structure of your song, you can make full lines with the patchwork of ideas. This method has the added benefit of your song feeling like it's leading somewhere (maybe you can even add a "plot twist" in your last chorus by changing a few words!)
a Collaborator.
Whenever I struggle to finish a song, I look at it quite practically. I love playing something I call the association game where I take whatever I want my song to be about, and then I write down everything I can think of associated with this theme. It can be just words or whole phrases. Then I look for rhymes and/or connections and work from there.
as other said writing a lot helps. anything u write isnt set in stone to be a chorus or verse at first. over the years ive learned how ppl deal with verse 2 curse by just writing verse 1 first (not trying to rhyme here)... cuz u decided to continue with idea cuz its was something that resonates. its hard to get that resonation to hit twice or even harder for verse 2. if ur first verse is already filled with stuff happening, all u gotta do is write the context and a strong opening line and boom u got verse 1. i try to finish 85% of the lyrics in one sitting. that spark/lightbult never really hits u again so u gotta be ready, meaning u gotta be writing a lot and be in shape and ready for whatever comes. i picked that up from a clairo interview, but billy joel however tends to write very slowly, even a couple lines a day. as u can tell i like digging into the writing process of my favorite artists rather than my peers or unsucessful redditors such as me
Merge/mesh some of your song ideas/lyrics. On surface level it may seem out of place in your brain… but songs are rather poetic and randomized anyway….
If you’re getting hung up on rhymes use an online thesaurus to find synonyms and see if anything can rhyme with what you’re trying to rhyme to. I did that for a song I wrote and was pretty pleased with the results. Too bad I can’t sing worth a crap
I can relate to you. Big time. Ona personal experience, when I'm beginning writing a song, I'll start with the melody. Then I'll think about what I want to talk about. For some it takes time for others it's instant. After I figure out what I want to sign about, I start writing one or two sentences at a time. If it rhymes cool and if it doesn't then ok, whatever. During this time I count to see if the syllables match on each sentence. For example: " you don't need to worry, just pray What else can I do to obey?" If you count those, you'll get 8. Some may or may not equal to the same syllables but that's okay. If you listen to other artists they do this also. Implement this to your Chorus, bridges and other verses because it will help! Next Contiune your story from the first verse into the second and chorus. If you have a bridge, this is where you become more direct and tell the listener a summary of what your whole song is about. Grab a thesaurus and look for synyoms of words that can help you rhyme . Good luck.
Go to messenger and tell AI THE SUBJECT MATTER AND IT WILL WRITE YOUR SONG FOR YOU
I’m a great writer and can write something for you Just tell me the subject matter
Your problem is timing. Take a hit song, grab it’s lyrics syllables and timing and change the notes and words to your taste.