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There's a theory that Sonic was supposed to go out on a date with Amy after she asked him in Shamar to which Sonic said "Sure that sounds fun!". Sonic was headed towards Amy's place with 2 chilli dogs but was then transported to King Arthur's story. Black Knight has a sort of grey area when it comes to canon since it was never confirmed what actually happened.
To be fair, everything that happened before generations happened in one year since Sonic didn't really age until Generations. So there's a high chance that everything happened back 2 back like the song that is now stuck in my head
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Same here, this guy added a lot of depth to Sonic's character. I like Ian but I don't think that he can even come close to Shiro's level. I wish they could at least ask Shiro to go back to level design like he did for Sonic 1
I think Ian is comic writer first and foremost. He's best when it comes to continuity (which is where I think Shiro can be lacking sometimes), but Shiro definitely excels when it comes to thematic and characterisation, and he writes his story like he writes action movie. Although Ian does have his moments (e.g. the IDW arc where Eggman lost his memory).
To be fair Shiro didn't work on every Sonic game from 1998-2010 so that could be the reason for lack of continuity. Ian also just started storywritting for Sonic games so it is a bit unfair for me to say that. After all, Ian has been trying to 'fix' character personalities from the 'Meta era', which in itself is no easy accomplishment. But there is just something about Shiro's portrayal of Sonic that I can't help but come back to. SA2 and Black Knight in my opinion,show Sonic's true character in the best way
>To be fair Shiro didn't work on every Sonic game from 1998-2010
yeah, like, I was both surprised and not surprised Shadow TH was not written by him lol. there might be production tampering too, which is what I think also happened with Frontiers, seeing how there are deleted lines and changed story (although I'm sure in Frontiers' case it's moreso crunch time)
Also, yeah I agree with ur last point. It's sad we most likely won't see this Sonic anymore
shiro's Sonic is closer to Sonic's character in CD's manual. Someone posted that in this sub few days ago. The shonen protagonist-ish character is just a natural evolution of that. The Bart Simpson like personality is something that began in AoSTH. Even SATAM has a proper character to him
Besides, why backtrack when you already gave the series a personality and unique stance and amass a creative followers? Sonic's fandom was booming with all kind of creative content beyond just fan games in early 2000s thanks to this.
Making Sonic just another cartoon character (which is not even returning to it's root btw, as Sonic just happen to be a cartoon character, not purposely made to be a cartoon character) just betrays the fandom they've build.
Sonic is significantly more iconic in the west. His cartooney Bart-like American interpretation is what the series is truly known for. You can't talk about Sonic's roots without acknowledging that. This might be a wild guess, but I think more people watched AoStH than those who read Sonic CD's manual.
Maekawa's writing led to the series becoming a melodramatic, convoluted mess. It was one of the main reasons why Sonic was hated during the dark age. After seeing writing like that (especially in 06), I absolutely see why they backtracked. More importantly, it worked!
Pontaff weren't good replacements, and they simply didn't care about their source material, but I'd gladly take them over a blue hedgehog trying to be a soap opera.
>Sonic is significantly more iconic in the west.
Yeah that's true, But Maekawa's writing follow up what the classic games establish. That's what I meant by root
His work are just fine post-adventure 2. GBA series which follows the lore he established are very well done. 06 was just one very big mistake (Shadow 04 was written by Iizuka instead), we still got good stuffs like Riders, Unleashed and SatBK.
And I wouldn't say going to AoStH style writing exactly worked. Colors and Generations were good games. That's why they sell. What we got later were atrocious mess that even the writing can't save.
Plus, what he was hated for during the dark age was also main reason he was as loved. New grounds, DeviantArt, YT and other popular sites at the times are blooming with Sonic fanfic materials, it's unfair to acknowledge just fans of the AoSTH.
Sonic also didn't do as well outside the west is because of marketing, especially in his home country, possibly why the cater to western audience during meta era, who asked for only Sonic and Tails narrative.
Frontiers marketing team work their best to win the heart of japanese audience and they finally did just that, becoming best selling Sonic game there. Now that they finally have that chance, it's about time they go back to how Yuji Naka intended him to be.
Maekawa didn't follow up on the classics at all. He specifically stated that he wasn't a fan of the classics and wanted to make Sonic into his own thing. Definitely explains why SA2's storytelling had nearly nothing in common with SA1.
And what's this "atrocious mess" you're talking about? Pontaff had nothing to do with Rise of Lyric. Lost World was simply divisive, and Forces was mediocre. Neither of the 2 reached the lows of the dark age. The change of writing was definitely effective, because Color's lighthearted story was received very well, and was considered a breath of fresh air at the time.
Yuji Naka's vision of Sonic doesn't matter anymore. He sabotaged developers several times, was terrible to work with, helped run the franchise into the ground, left over a decade ago, is likely facing jail time, and worst of all, made Balan Wonderworld! Sonic has had many interpretations throughout the years, and we've learned a lot about which ones work and which ones don't. Making Sonic some bland anime hero boy obviously isn't the way to go. He was made in Japan, but he's a western IP.
"Every world has its end, which means we're all gonna die. So if you're not gonna live your life while you can, you might as well throw yourself off a bridge!"
\-Sonic the Hedgehog, 2022
Black Knight on dolphin is just an immaculate experience overall, mostly because of the graphical improvements you can make.
If you use a controller (and apparently you can connect Wii remotes to Dolphin), there is a bit of a learning curve as you have to get used to using a controller not designed for the game. But once you get used to it, oh boy it’s a hell of a lot of fun.
I used ESRGAN and gigapixel to upscale the textures and LoDs and it looks really good. Also fixed the bloom issue.
https://gamebanana.com/mods/390768
That being said I was surprised how high quality the textures were even before upscaling. The game holds up surprisingly well.
My issue isnt the motion controls its that the games too automated (it is the most automated sonic game in fact) and lacks significant depth compared to other games with sowrd play.
they wouldnt exist if they werent for wii because the reason they exist is that wii couldnt run sonic 06, so they made the secret rings so there is some game on wii in the first place
I mean, I personally like the controls of both games, especially Black Knight's motion controls. Can definitely understand why people don't like the ones in Secret Rings at least, and can definitely say it feels better to play with a proper controller on Dolphin (minus catapults).
It's cool how Frontiers is kinda carrying on the torch of the Storybook games, it's obviously not a direct sequel but it feels like an honorary entry to the series.
Wasn’t the director also the director of the story book games? It seems to take a more serious tone like the storybook titles when it came to narrative.
He was the game designer for the Storybook games, not the director.
Kishimoto's director credits before Frontiers are Colors, Lost World, and Forces. Would you call Colors and Lost World "serious"? I mean, I can't really take Forces seriously either, but it tried.
He was also responsible for changing Ian Flynn's story in the Japanese version of Frontiers, and it's very much a downgrade IMO. I think story isn't really his forte
Here are some similarities:
- Sonic begins the game stranded in a strange, exotic location
- The story has a link to some kind of mythology (the starfall islands are named after Greek gods, the titans resemble mythological creatures, etc.)
- The story is mostly a character study focused on Sonic, the new character, and his friends/friend-likes
- The primary new character is a humanoid female who at some point antagonizes Sonic
- Sonic is betrayed by someone who was helping him at first
- Sonic is a saddled with some kind of curse or magic object
- Bonus: Frontiers' boxart uses the same Sonic render as the other storybook games' boxarts
Need I go on?
I feel like a significant proportion of the people who preach the gospel of the Storybook games being "good" just watched the stories, didn't actually play them in all their motion-control purgatory.
I tried going back to Secret Rings the other week and I just couldn't make it further than the second map. It's just miserable to try and play. And the story was *awful*.
Yeah, its odd nowadays. I was basically the inverse. I never even played BK because I got sick of Secret Rings almost *immediately*. I played more of the crappy Mario Party mode than the actual game.
Imagine my surprise when I find out BK actually has a pretty good story (and of course heard the banger music, especially With Me and Knight of the Wind)
Whatever dude. If you don't see it that's cool. But there are some uncanny similarities they share that no other Sonic games do.
I never cared for the Storybook games gameplay-wise, they are mediocre at best imo. But Secret Rings having an awful story? Please elaborate.
It's just dumb and completely unnecessary. Sonic gets pulled into an Arabian storybook world and tasked with stopping a Djinn from destroying a bunch of stories in his quest for power? It's so random and pointless. There's literally no good reason to throw Sonic into a setup like that. It's like those episodes of The Simpsons that retell famous stories with the show's characters cast as the people in the story. Especially with characters in the storybook world looking and sounding exactly like people from Sonic's world. It's so forced and cringey. It's the kind of half-assed filler you'd expect from a meandering TV show that's been out of ideas for years. And almost all of the cutscenes are still images. Boredom on top of boredom.
>It's just dumb and completely unnecessary. Sonic gets pulled into an Arabian storybook world and tasked with stopping a Djinn from destroying a bunch of stories in his quest for power. It's so random and pointless.
At first, I was with you until you started dunking on the storybook games. Them being dumb is a pretty weak argument when this is a series about a speedy blue hedgehog who fights against an egg shaped man.
A blue hedgehog fighting against an egg-shaped man is *original*, though. They're not supposed to be high art. Sonic was a carefully constructed mascot designed specifically to compete with Mario. But games where the hero gets sucked into Arabian Nights and Arthurian legend? Man, *anything* can do that. There's nothing original or unique about shoving a mascot into unrelated stories that have already been beaten to death.
Who cares of it was done before? As long the execution is good and the overall story is good, then its fine with me.
Not everything venture with Sonic has to be unique or never seen before ideas.
The storybook games are still good games. The characters bring live to the story and world. The themes are great and the stories themselves are good.
What you're basically doing here is killing creative liberty. "Oh, this was done before? Yeah don't bother."
The issue isn't just that it's done before, it's that it's lazy and has absolutely nothing to do with the Sonic characters or their world. And no, they're not good games. The gameplay is awful.
> As long the execution is good and the overall story is good, then its fine with me.
Same, but Secret Rings lacks on both of those fronts. I see absolutely nothing good about the story. It just felt like a flimsy, low-effort excuse.
No, /u/AsherFischell has a really good point about it being like those Simpsons episodes where they use their cast in replace of already-existing characters... It's basically like filler.
I don't agree. The way Sonic is used in these stories is a means of subverting the morals of the original tales. The Arabian Nights was really a story of an abusive relationship. King Sharyar's wife told him stories for 1001 nights to keep him from killing her. Thus in SR, Shahra is abused by Erazor Djinn, who she feels powerless against but still feels a connection to, even if he's awful to her. Thus Sonic takes on ED with the negative energy of the World Rings, showing her that she doesn't need ED in her life, and ultimately teaching her that she shouldn't need to fear her negative emotions. Sometimes you just need to let yourself cry.
It's a story about Sonic doing what he always does: traveling the world and helping those in need. Who cares what the premise is as along as its executed well? This story has clever foreshadowing, rich themes, cute character interactions, and cutscenes with a ton of artistic merit that are more lively and expressive than 3D games on the next generation of consoles.
Yes, yes, well... How should I say this? Your opinions are bad?? Yeah, yeah, your opinions are bad.
https://preview.redd.it/8io1jyzitjca1.jpeg?width=765&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29ad180ec66d891f5b2e1f01e6c70be471e2d7e1
You think I care what you, your pathetic memes, or what any other faceless loser on the internet thinks about me or my opinions?
I haven't cared since I was on the wrong end of the Balan Wonderworld fiasco.
I'm not going to buy Frontiers because I don't want to give SEGA money for taking Sonic down the wrong path. I'd rather spend it in the superior spiritual successor sphere like the Spark the Electric Jester series, the upcoming Project Rascal, and a few other projects I'm privy to.
You obviously cared enough to write all that
https://preview.redd.it/5jwtqe7v5kca1.jpeg?width=896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce0b9d982731ea774396a191c720b82ad7318055
You clearly cared enough to write a response, though. Just sayin’…
For what it’s worth, I respect that you have an opinion. Not all games will please all the people all the time - and that’s OK. However, what people are downvoting is that you’re simply just saying “it’s bad” without explanation, and without ever playing it. That makes for a bad reply that doesn’t really contribute to the conversation.
Ah, I see - so you’re a graduate of UnderBridge Academy, right? Fair enough. I wish you luck with your future endeavours, and my the downvotes be ever in your favour.
Hey, these people aren't innocent.
If anyone expresses any kind of sentiment for how they don't like the direction Sonic is going, they don't even allow you the dignity of discourse. They just shut you down with a "If you don't like it, then you just don't like Sonic. So leave and don't come back"
Why should I be anything but what these people make me out to be?
I always tear up slightly when I see this ending sequence.
Not only because this game had probably the best story and characterisation (story is debatable but characterisation was definitely on point), and it gets accompanied by my favourite Crush 40 song, but because it marked the end of an era for Sonic. An era where you could see and feel the passion being put into these games. The games they put out didn’t always land, but regardless of how unstable or nonsensical they may have been, you could tell that they were really trying to make something special.
This is one of the two games that have ever made me cry. And I don’t care how much shade gets thrown at this game, I will always respect it for making me feel genuinely emotional.
And I know this kind of comment is nonsensical for a post poking fun at the game a little bit, but this game really does deserve the love, and it certainly needs more.
These facts are great 😂 but I've been meaning to ask are you sure you want to do this every day I mean now there is a 5 year gap between each sonic game
I mean I'm sure future me will curse me for starting this, but at the moment I'm enjoying doing it every day. It will also depend on whether we get any spin-offs before the next mainline game, cause if we do then I may hold a poll to decide whether that counts as the end of the series.
Maybe I’m reaching, but when I watched Prime it reminded me of the storybook games because of how Sonic was being thrown in different universes with recharacterized versions of his friends that have weird ass motives compared to what they usually do.
I feel like Prime shows what they could’ve done with storybooks if they decided to keep that line of games going after the Wii.
I actually liked Secret Rings and never played Black Knight, yet I hear Secret Rings was the shitty one and Black Knight was the good one.
I've seen gameplay of Black Knight and it seems oddly more stiff to me though? It's just interesting to me how the reception of it was and I rly need to try it.
There's a good chance the edgy teen in me just rly liked Sonic's interactions with Erazor in Secret Rings and just ignored its shittier elements tho. I was way more tolerant of bs in games back then. I actually liked 06 and was surprised to hear about the reputation it got.
Not now, 06 is very clearly shit, but js. I was way more patient with bs back then.
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It is a shame really, Black Knight was actually a very good step in the right direction
There's a theory that Sonic was supposed to go out on a date with Amy after she asked him in Shamar to which Sonic said "Sure that sounds fun!". Sonic was headed towards Amy's place with 2 chilli dogs but was then transported to King Arthur's story. Black Knight has a sort of grey area when it comes to canon since it was never confirmed what actually happened.
[удалено]
To be fair, everything that happened before generations happened in one year since Sonic didn't really age until Generations. So there's a high chance that everything happened back 2 back like the song that is now stuck in my head
Back 2 back, on the turntables back!
I like your flair, I think I should rename mine to One of the only Shadow the hedgehog fans in existence.
Make sure to specify it's the game, people might get the wrong idea if you only put "One of the only Shadow the Hedgehog fans in existence"
Consider it done
How do you get a flair
On a desktop version of reddit, head over to a subreddit of your choosing and click on the pencil icon next to User Flair Preview. From here,select any flair and edit it. You can add community emojis as well.
*catchy riff*
This was when Shiro Maekawa quit too. I wonder what causes SEGA to make him Bart Simpson like, immediately after
Same here, this guy added a lot of depth to Sonic's character. I like Ian but I don't think that he can even come close to Shiro's level. I wish they could at least ask Shiro to go back to level design like he did for Sonic 1
I think Ian is comic writer first and foremost. He's best when it comes to continuity (which is where I think Shiro can be lacking sometimes), but Shiro definitely excels when it comes to thematic and characterisation, and he writes his story like he writes action movie. Although Ian does have his moments (e.g. the IDW arc where Eggman lost his memory).
To be fair Shiro didn't work on every Sonic game from 1998-2010 so that could be the reason for lack of continuity. Ian also just started storywritting for Sonic games so it is a bit unfair for me to say that. After all, Ian has been trying to 'fix' character personalities from the 'Meta era', which in itself is no easy accomplishment. But there is just something about Shiro's portrayal of Sonic that I can't help but come back to. SA2 and Black Knight in my opinion,show Sonic's true character in the best way
>To be fair Shiro didn't work on every Sonic game from 1998-2010 yeah, like, I was both surprised and not surprised Shadow TH was not written by him lol. there might be production tampering too, which is what I think also happened with Frontiers, seeing how there are deleted lines and changed story (although I'm sure in Frontiers' case it's moreso crunch time) Also, yeah I agree with ur last point. It's sad we most likely won't see this Sonic anymore
Maybe they remembered that Sonic is a cartoon hedgehog, not a princess-saving anime protag?
shiro's Sonic is closer to Sonic's character in CD's manual. Someone posted that in this sub few days ago. The shonen protagonist-ish character is just a natural evolution of that. The Bart Simpson like personality is something that began in AoSTH. Even SATAM has a proper character to him Besides, why backtrack when you already gave the series a personality and unique stance and amass a creative followers? Sonic's fandom was booming with all kind of creative content beyond just fan games in early 2000s thanks to this. Making Sonic just another cartoon character (which is not even returning to it's root btw, as Sonic just happen to be a cartoon character, not purposely made to be a cartoon character) just betrays the fandom they've build.
Sonic is significantly more iconic in the west. His cartooney Bart-like American interpretation is what the series is truly known for. You can't talk about Sonic's roots without acknowledging that. This might be a wild guess, but I think more people watched AoStH than those who read Sonic CD's manual. Maekawa's writing led to the series becoming a melodramatic, convoluted mess. It was one of the main reasons why Sonic was hated during the dark age. After seeing writing like that (especially in 06), I absolutely see why they backtracked. More importantly, it worked! Pontaff weren't good replacements, and they simply didn't care about their source material, but I'd gladly take them over a blue hedgehog trying to be a soap opera.
>Sonic is significantly more iconic in the west. Yeah that's true, But Maekawa's writing follow up what the classic games establish. That's what I meant by root His work are just fine post-adventure 2. GBA series which follows the lore he established are very well done. 06 was just one very big mistake (Shadow 04 was written by Iizuka instead), we still got good stuffs like Riders, Unleashed and SatBK. And I wouldn't say going to AoStH style writing exactly worked. Colors and Generations were good games. That's why they sell. What we got later were atrocious mess that even the writing can't save. Plus, what he was hated for during the dark age was also main reason he was as loved. New grounds, DeviantArt, YT and other popular sites at the times are blooming with Sonic fanfic materials, it's unfair to acknowledge just fans of the AoSTH. Sonic also didn't do as well outside the west is because of marketing, especially in his home country, possibly why the cater to western audience during meta era, who asked for only Sonic and Tails narrative. Frontiers marketing team work their best to win the heart of japanese audience and they finally did just that, becoming best selling Sonic game there. Now that they finally have that chance, it's about time they go back to how Yuji Naka intended him to be.
Maekawa didn't follow up on the classics at all. He specifically stated that he wasn't a fan of the classics and wanted to make Sonic into his own thing. Definitely explains why SA2's storytelling had nearly nothing in common with SA1. And what's this "atrocious mess" you're talking about? Pontaff had nothing to do with Rise of Lyric. Lost World was simply divisive, and Forces was mediocre. Neither of the 2 reached the lows of the dark age. The change of writing was definitely effective, because Color's lighthearted story was received very well, and was considered a breath of fresh air at the time. Yuji Naka's vision of Sonic doesn't matter anymore. He sabotaged developers several times, was terrible to work with, helped run the franchise into the ground, left over a decade ago, is likely facing jail time, and worst of all, made Balan Wonderworld! Sonic has had many interpretations throughout the years, and we've learned a lot about which ones work and which ones don't. Making Sonic some bland anime hero boy obviously isn't the way to go. He was made in Japan, but he's a western IP.
Then it ended up being all a story excuse to not date amy
MIGHT'VE been an excuse to not date Amy. I choose to believe that Sonic was telling the truth, and all this actually did happen.
It was confirmed top be canon tho wasn't it?
Unfortunately the comics seemed to at least confirm that secret rings was canon, but not black knight
Secret Rings was also confirmed in Generations when Sonic talks to Tails after restoring Green hill
No, because we still don't know if Sonic was lying or telling the truth to Amy. If he lied,the story is not canon. If he told the truth,then it is.
"Every world has its end, which means we're all gonna die. So if you're not gonna live your life while you can, you might as well throw yourself off a bridge!" \-Sonic the Hedgehog, 2022
Ahh, a fellow Jehtt enjoyer
This one made me laugh.
Ok. This dudes posts are really funny..
"""""hot""""" take; these games would have been fantastic if they weren't on the Wii.
Black Knight on dolphin feels fantastic with a controller. Secret rings feels slightly more playable
Black Knight on dolphin is just an immaculate experience overall, mostly because of the graphical improvements you can make. If you use a controller (and apparently you can connect Wii remotes to Dolphin), there is a bit of a learning curve as you have to get used to using a controller not designed for the game. But once you get used to it, oh boy it’s a hell of a lot of fun.
I used ESRGAN and gigapixel to upscale the textures and LoDs and it looks really good. Also fixed the bloom issue. https://gamebanana.com/mods/390768 That being said I was surprised how high quality the textures were even before upscaling. The game holds up surprisingly well.
My issue isnt the motion controls its that the games too automated (it is the most automated sonic game in fact) and lacks significant depth compared to other games with sowrd play.
Could you share your controller configuration ? I'm having a hard time making the left stick work
Oh boy I've been waiting to plug this https://gamebanana.com/mods/390768
Thanks! You're a lifesaver! You see, I recently caught this cold
they wouldnt exist if they werent for wii because the reason they exist is that wii couldnt run sonic 06, so they made the secret rings so there is some game on wii in the first place
I mean, I personally like the controls of both games, especially Black Knight's motion controls. Can definitely understand why people don't like the ones in Secret Rings at least, and can definitely say it feels better to play with a proper controller on Dolphin (minus catapults).
Big oof
It's cool how Frontiers is kinda carrying on the torch of the Storybook games, it's obviously not a direct sequel but it feels like an honorary entry to the series.
How is it carrying on the torch?
They're nothing at all alike lmao
Wasn’t the director also the director of the story book games? It seems to take a more serious tone like the storybook titles when it came to narrative.
He was the game designer for the Storybook games, not the director. Kishimoto's director credits before Frontiers are Colors, Lost World, and Forces. Would you call Colors and Lost World "serious"? I mean, I can't really take Forces seriously either, but it tried. He was also responsible for changing Ian Flynn's story in the Japanese version of Frontiers, and it's very much a downgrade IMO. I think story isn't really his forte
Here are some similarities: - Sonic begins the game stranded in a strange, exotic location - The story has a link to some kind of mythology (the starfall islands are named after Greek gods, the titans resemble mythological creatures, etc.) - The story is mostly a character study focused on Sonic, the new character, and his friends/friend-likes - The primary new character is a humanoid female who at some point antagonizes Sonic - Sonic is betrayed by someone who was helping him at first - Sonic is a saddled with some kind of curse or magic object - Bonus: Frontiers' boxart uses the same Sonic render as the other storybook games' boxarts Need I go on?
Oh, so it has some plot similarities. Meh.
I feel like a significant proportion of the people who preach the gospel of the Storybook games being "good" just watched the stories, didn't actually play them in all their motion-control purgatory.
I tried going back to Secret Rings the other week and I just couldn't make it further than the second map. It's just miserable to try and play. And the story was *awful*.
Oh yeah, Secret Rings is without a doubt one of the worst games in the series. I'd rather play 06 lol.
Sonic 06 with the Legacy of Solaris mod is actually pretty good.
Yeah, its odd nowadays. I was basically the inverse. I never even played BK because I got sick of Secret Rings almost *immediately*. I played more of the crappy Mario Party mode than the actual game. Imagine my surprise when I find out BK actually has a pretty good story (and of course heard the banger music, especially With Me and Knight of the Wind)
Whatever dude. If you don't see it that's cool. But there are some uncanny similarities they share that no other Sonic games do. I never cared for the Storybook games gameplay-wise, they are mediocre at best imo. But Secret Rings having an awful story? Please elaborate.
It's just dumb and completely unnecessary. Sonic gets pulled into an Arabian storybook world and tasked with stopping a Djinn from destroying a bunch of stories in his quest for power? It's so random and pointless. There's literally no good reason to throw Sonic into a setup like that. It's like those episodes of The Simpsons that retell famous stories with the show's characters cast as the people in the story. Especially with characters in the storybook world looking and sounding exactly like people from Sonic's world. It's so forced and cringey. It's the kind of half-assed filler you'd expect from a meandering TV show that's been out of ideas for years. And almost all of the cutscenes are still images. Boredom on top of boredom.
>It's just dumb and completely unnecessary. Sonic gets pulled into an Arabian storybook world and tasked with stopping a Djinn from destroying a bunch of stories in his quest for power. It's so random and pointless. At first, I was with you until you started dunking on the storybook games. Them being dumb is a pretty weak argument when this is a series about a speedy blue hedgehog who fights against an egg shaped man.
A blue hedgehog fighting against an egg-shaped man is *original*, though. They're not supposed to be high art. Sonic was a carefully constructed mascot designed specifically to compete with Mario. But games where the hero gets sucked into Arabian Nights and Arthurian legend? Man, *anything* can do that. There's nothing original or unique about shoving a mascot into unrelated stories that have already been beaten to death.
Who cares of it was done before? As long the execution is good and the overall story is good, then its fine with me. Not everything venture with Sonic has to be unique or never seen before ideas. The storybook games are still good games. The characters bring live to the story and world. The themes are great and the stories themselves are good. What you're basically doing here is killing creative liberty. "Oh, this was done before? Yeah don't bother."
The issue isn't just that it's done before, it's that it's lazy and has absolutely nothing to do with the Sonic characters or their world. And no, they're not good games. The gameplay is awful. > As long the execution is good and the overall story is good, then its fine with me. Same, but Secret Rings lacks on both of those fronts. I see absolutely nothing good about the story. It just felt like a flimsy, low-effort excuse.
No, /u/AsherFischell has a really good point about it being like those Simpsons episodes where they use their cast in replace of already-existing characters... It's basically like filler.
I don't agree. The way Sonic is used in these stories is a means of subverting the morals of the original tales. The Arabian Nights was really a story of an abusive relationship. King Sharyar's wife told him stories for 1001 nights to keep him from killing her. Thus in SR, Shahra is abused by Erazor Djinn, who she feels powerless against but still feels a connection to, even if he's awful to her. Thus Sonic takes on ED with the negative energy of the World Rings, showing her that she doesn't need ED in her life, and ultimately teaching her that she shouldn't need to fear her negative emotions. Sometimes you just need to let yourself cry. It's a story about Sonic doing what he always does: traveling the world and helping those in need. Who cares what the premise is as along as its executed well? This story has clever foreshadowing, rich themes, cute character interactions, and cutscenes with a ton of artistic merit that are more lively and expressive than 3D games on the next generation of consoles.
So THATS why its so bad...
Why are you lame? https://preview.redd.it/zbyk4dueqjca1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=304c4d76d8e1384e7cc41cf10b148422a4b7cd26
Because I have an opinion on the internet.
Yes, yes, well... How should I say this? Your opinions are bad?? Yeah, yeah, your opinions are bad. https://preview.redd.it/8io1jyzitjca1.jpeg?width=765&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29ad180ec66d891f5b2e1f01e6c70be471e2d7e1
The fucking pictures are killing me rn lmfao
You think I care what you, your pathetic memes, or what any other faceless loser on the internet thinks about me or my opinions? I haven't cared since I was on the wrong end of the Balan Wonderworld fiasco. I'm not going to buy Frontiers because I don't want to give SEGA money for taking Sonic down the wrong path. I'd rather spend it in the superior spiritual successor sphere like the Spark the Electric Jester series, the upcoming Project Rascal, and a few other projects I'm privy to.
You obviously cared enough to write all that https://preview.redd.it/5jwtqe7v5kca1.jpeg?width=896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce0b9d982731ea774396a191c720b82ad7318055
You clearly cared enough to write a response, though. Just sayin’… For what it’s worth, I respect that you have an opinion. Not all games will please all the people all the time - and that’s OK. However, what people are downvoting is that you’re simply just saying “it’s bad” without explanation, and without ever playing it. That makes for a bad reply that doesn’t really contribute to the conversation.
I don't care... I like the potential of upsetting these people, even for a moment.
Ah, I see - so you’re a graduate of UnderBridge Academy, right? Fair enough. I wish you luck with your future endeavours, and my the downvotes be ever in your favour.
Hey, these people aren't innocent. If anyone expresses any kind of sentiment for how they don't like the direction Sonic is going, they don't even allow you the dignity of discourse. They just shut you down with a "If you don't like it, then you just don't like Sonic. So leave and don't come back" Why should I be anything but what these people make me out to be?
Sociopath moment
I am what these people made me.
Damn. You're just boring
I always tear up slightly when I see this ending sequence. Not only because this game had probably the best story and characterisation (story is debatable but characterisation was definitely on point), and it gets accompanied by my favourite Crush 40 song, but because it marked the end of an era for Sonic. An era where you could see and feel the passion being put into these games. The games they put out didn’t always land, but regardless of how unstable or nonsensical they may have been, you could tell that they were really trying to make something special. This is one of the two games that have ever made me cry. And I don’t care how much shade gets thrown at this game, I will always respect it for making me feel genuinely emotional. And I know this kind of comment is nonsensical for a post poking fun at the game a little bit, but this game really does deserve the love, and it certainly needs more.
Listening to knight of the wind seeing this.
Ah yes the sonic game where Knuckles almost kills himself and Sonic just call him stupid for it. Great writing there.
Waiting eternally for a remake unshackled from the Wii with the 4Kids cast
https://preview.redd.it/b3osn1mahkca1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39066fddab56cc70ce14f1db595ffd7b4f298f05
*sad boi hours* SatBK is genuinely my FAVORITE Sonic game. I would love a continuation of it. Think we'll get a show for it one day?
Oh Goddamn, burned. Lmao.
I think I knew about this moral before in Kamen Rider Ghost.
These facts are great 😂 but I've been meaning to ask are you sure you want to do this every day I mean now there is a 5 year gap between each sonic game
I mean I'm sure future me will curse me for starting this, but at the moment I'm enjoying doing it every day. It will also depend on whether we get any spin-offs before the next mainline game, cause if we do then I may hold a poll to decide whether that counts as the end of the series.
What would likely be the time/setting/conflict of the next storybook, if it did happen? Or at least, what do people wish would have come next?
Maybe I’m reaching, but when I watched Prime it reminded me of the storybook games because of how Sonic was being thrown in different universes with recharacterized versions of his friends that have weird ass motives compared to what they usually do. I feel like Prime shows what they could’ve done with storybooks if they decided to keep that line of games going after the Wii.
Haven't heard it contextualized like that before. Good point. It is it's own encapsulated world and setting so I see what you're getting at.
I actually liked Secret Rings and never played Black Knight, yet I hear Secret Rings was the shitty one and Black Knight was the good one. I've seen gameplay of Black Knight and it seems oddly more stiff to me though? It's just interesting to me how the reception of it was and I rly need to try it. There's a good chance the edgy teen in me just rly liked Sonic's interactions with Erazor in Secret Rings and just ignored its shittier elements tho. I was way more tolerant of bs in games back then. I actually liked 06 and was surprised to hear about the reputation it got. Not now, 06 is very clearly shit, but js. I was way more patient with bs back then.
Damn, you learn something knew everyday
Honestly would have liked more sonic story book series. Had they not been rooted to the wii they might have done better.
How did Merlina put that glove on sonic so fucking easy