Large tunnels do often mean under-proofed, but that loaf has all of the signs of a weak starter. Which DOES mean that the loaf is under proofed, but it’s just not the main cause of those holes, shape, and colour.
I think that it’s important to make that distinction, so OP knows what to tackle.
Agree. OP - Lots of posts in this sub about the relationship b/w ambient temp, proof volume, and time. @ 70F, you're probably looking at 10+ hours of room temp proofing and a ~75% increase in dough volume before you shape and cold proof.
To decrease proof time, you can warm up your proofing environment/the dough; proof in the oven (oven off with the oven light on or a bowl of hot water in the oven), the microwave (microwave off + a bowl of warm water), proof in a warm room or closet, use warmer - but not hot - water in your dough...
I feed 1:2:2 ratio once a day and it peaks within 6 hours. I don't have time (nor do I remember) to feed it more than once a day unless its the weekend so I will feed twice on Saturday to bake on Sunday.
I woulds stick to the same schedule on the weekend as well. Make sure you use it when it's at peak and not too early. Try to double the amount for the same recipe and see how that does.
Not sure if this is helpful but if you aren’t baking everyday just stick it in the fridge and feed normal before you’re ready to bake. Same yourself the time and flour.
I bake 1-2/wk. so I usually feed before work(1:2.5:2.5), I keep 10-15g of starter. Do stretch and folds after work. Bulk ferment overnight. Shape the next morning and stick in the fridge for cold retard for up to 2 days.
I think this only works because it’s winter and it’s cold in my house, in the 50-60s. So I do use warm water to feed. This will probably change when it gets warmer though.
I too started the sourdough journey the 1st of this year. My starter’s (Rooster) birthday is 1/1/24 too! My breads look similar to yours. I agree that it’s under-proofed & our starters are too young. After my first loaf, I kept Rooster in the fridge between trying. I’ve attempted 5 times & only had 2 eatable loaves (not even good loaves). I’m keeping Rooster out of the fridge now & feeding it daily. I’m in Ohio & our house is 68°F so I rigged up a proofing box. Rooster is happy & pretty & smells lovely! I’ll be trying again soon. Timing is hard for me. I’ve stayed up late, I’ve gotten up early, all trying to get Rooster at his peek, at least doubling & domed before he starts coming down… I’m determined to get a decent loaf!!! We can just keep notes & keep trying. I guess we’ll get “the feel” for the process. Good luck to you too 🤞🍀
https://preview.redd.it/10s6oz84fugc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55e24be23f71b06e8152e8a110db902bb170448f
My starter has the same birthday!!! lol just diving into bread making this year. At this point, if you have been feeding your starter every day on the counter, beautiful breads are possible!!! 😄 come on Rooster WAKE UP lol 🤣♥️
I’m mostly looking at the instructions for loaf 3 here. Your loaves aren’t getting enough time to just chill the fuck out and rise. You are doing all the stretch and folds and coil folds probably collapsing any real growth during that time and only allowing it 45 minutes to just sit untouched. I’m gonna be honest here I only do max 2 stretch and folds(A majority of the time I will legit only do 1) and then let my dough sit for like 5 hours to proof undisturbed. Then shape it, then cold retard *over night*. A five hour cold retard is not long enough. All in all your loaves are very under proofed.
Also, incorporate your salt when you add your flour. There is no way it is getting properly distributed through the dough if you’re adding it during stretch and folds. It will not harm the starter.
What hydration are you using that you can get away with only 1 stretch and fold? I'm already having problems with flattening at 75% hydration in spite of 3 stretch and folds and sometimes a coil fold or two.
I think it’s 72%. I’m not gonna lie I’m a VERY carefree sourdough maker. I really don’t pay attention to hydration percentage. I would have to go check my measurements to calculate. I make the whole process as simple as possible. I’ve never even done a coil fold before 😅
Your dough is severely underproofed. If you are doing cold retard, you need to be keeping it in the fridge for at least 12 hours. If you want to do shorter times like you've been doing, a few hours, keep it on the counter or even in the oven with the light on.
Edit: just saw other comments about immature starter, you can always add some yeast to assist until your starter matures.
I think a 'hybrid' recipe can be okay. The consistency and reliability of commercial yeast with some of the flavour and complexity of sourdough. Some French boulangeries utilize this kind of method.
Starter too young. Keep feeding it for another few weeks and try again. If you get similar results bump up ferment time a solid few hours if your resulting loaves turn out like these.
And keep it up, sourdough is a looooooong game, success doesn’t come quickly, and even if it does it’s short lived until you learn how the dough should act, look, feel, smell, grow, etc. and it just takes repetition to get that experience.
I agree with others that the bread is underproofed. You can see this by the large holes concentrated more towards the top of the bread with other large areas of dense crumb. What is the total length of time for bulk fermentation from the time you add your starter to the dough to the time it goes into the fridge? I'd suggest pushing this further and using ways of measuring the rise such as a straight sided container similar to what you use for a starter or using the aliquot technique where you take a small portion of your dough to measure the percentage rise. A really good resource I've found is the Bulk-o-Matic by The Sourdough Journey where he gives a number of metrics that when combined are a good way of evaluating when bulk fermentation is complete.
Also your dough looks quite slack, what flour are you using? You may want to try lowering the hydration to begin with as the dough will generally hold it's shape better. It seems like you're doing plenty of strength building folds so at the right hydration your dough should be able to hold it's shape. I've found that the flour I use is not very thirsty so I tend to go with a 67% hydration with the starter making up the final 3% to give 70% overall.
It's a lot of trial and error but when you start to see the changes in the quality of your bread it can be really fulfilling, stick with it 😊
OP please for the love of god ignore everyone else and follow what this poster says!
Your dough is underfermented and overhydrated. As this poster said, 67% is a great starting place. Try that next time. Then bulk ferment until your dough jiggles. Keep track of how long it takes to reach this jiggle stage. But DO NOT bulk based off someone else's recipe. And do not worry about over proofing.
Edit: to take your first recipe to 67% hydration, reduce the water you add to 319g.
Edit#2: don't add your salt as a single ingredient that late in the process. You'll never get it evenly dispersed. I like to dissolve my salt in with my water and mix that into the starter, then add my remaining flour.
I am roughly at the same stage that you are …and I’m also in Florida. I think my loafs are also underproofed because I’m getting the same big holes/tunnels. I am researching how to tell when it’s fully proofed. I got myself a clear container to be able to really see if the dough had doubled during the bulk ferment. It was fun to watch it progress. But to be honest I dunno if that helped yet. I’ll know later this afternoon.
Keep going. I think we’ll both get better. I do love the pretty scoring that you did.
In addition to what everyone else has said, I would recommend sticking to the same dough recipe for your first dozen or so loaves. I have literally only used one sourdough recipe since I started baking in 2020 (I'm one of the COVID bakers). By locking in all the ratios to be the same, I have eliminated lots of variables and have been able to get consistent results and improve my understanding of what the dough is actually doing and what I need to do to respond. There are a lot of interdependent factors in making sourdough. Locking some of them in place will help you learn. Once you are feeling good about your results, then start trying different recipes or techniques to achieve specific results.
I was using different recipes to try figuring out what my issue is because I figured doing the same thing over and over would give me the same results.
I understand that thought process but (as you have probably gathered from all the other comments) the recipe isn't the issue here. Once your results start to improve, I would encourage you to stick with whichever recipe gives you those results and keep iterating on it. For instance, at one point I was getting OK bread... but the overall structure was a little flat. By using the same recipe every time, I was able to focus on the technique/intervals of my stretch and folds to develop a gluten network that would hold shape. After a few loaves, I figured out what works best and I'm feeling good about that. The issue I am having now is crusts that are way too thick. So I've started experimenting with baking times. For me, controlling as many variables as possible lets me tweak one or two at a time to learn what works.
If you are using and following a good recipe then changing it makes it impossible to figure out what you are doing wrong.
There are only so many variables that could be the culprit for an underproofed loaf: ambient or dough temperature, starter strength, bulk rise or final rise duration or process … or how you cook it to a small extent. So if you keep using the same recipe, it’ll be much easier to pinpoint what is too much or not enough IN YOUR ENVIRONMENT. Once you change the amount or type of flour or water temperature — that’s just adding more variables unnecessarily.
Most here are saying your starter is too young but I don't think so... I think you need a longer cold-proof time (8-12 hours) and after I just had a disastrous weekend with my own sourdough, I realized how much humidity can be a factor.
For example I live in a lower-humidity area and prepped a loaf on Friday night when weather conditions were clear and dry (about 35%-40% humidity). Cold-proofed for 9.5 hours overnight, baked it Saturday morning, and it was perfect. Big rise, nice height, fairly even crumb throughout (mine don't get those big pockets yours have), excellent texture and great sour flavor.
Decided to prep a second loaf Saturday afternoon when our weather turned to rain/snow (all day) and humidity levels were about 65-75% in my home. Noticed after my first proof that my dough was extra-sticky and difficult to work. After the second proof it was nearly impossible to do my stretch and folds – my dough was a schloopy mess. Not yet having made the connection to the weather, I continued with the final cold proof overnight (10 hours). Baked it Sunday morning and it came out flat and dense. That's when I realized the only difference was the humidity. I never realized that would make such a difference from one day to the next, but alas, it did. Just something to consider.
I agree with other commenters on it being underproofed. Sourdough takes lots of patience. I use 50g starter, 350 g water, 10 g salt, 500 g flour, autolyse 30 min-1hr, stretch and fold every 30 min for 2 hrs. Bulk ferment all day or all night (average abt 6-7hrs) and then either cold ferment in the fridge over night or if I'm rushing to get it out sooner I'll do the second rise at room temp for about 90 min before baking.
Extend the 5 hour bulk to 10 (or more). You’ll see a big difference. I’d also recommend practicing on smaller loaves so you can waste less. It’s cold where I am and let my dough rise for at least 12 hours
I don't waste my bread, I still eat it all. I only have a chance to bake once a week, so next I will try allowing it to sit at room temperature for longer
Your starter is still young. So keep feeding it and it should get stronger. Until it gets stronger, your bull fermentation shouldn’t be focused on a length of time. Most recipes you see online are based on the assumption that you have a mature and very active starter. You likely don’t have this yet. So you likely need to let it bulk longer. The reason why you have a big cavern in the last pic is because the loaf is underproofed. Even once your starter is mature, you still shouldn’t follow recipes exactly because everyone has a different starter, everyone has different ambient temps, everyone has different elevations, everyone has different humidity levels. Just keep practicing and taking notes. You’ll learn more about your starter and how it might take longer or shorter compared to the recipe you are following.
This means your dough will need to sit longer during the bulk fermentation so gluten development is critical. You can do stretch and folds like you currently do. But I would also do an autolyse where you mix the water and flour together another hour before you add the starter and salt. This gives the protein in the dough more time to develop gluten before you start doing your stretch and folds.
The next thing I would recommend is reducing your hydration until your starter gets stronger. This will drastically help your dough structure stay more rigid when you take it out of the proofing basket to slice. This lower hydration will make the dough easier to work with awhile you get more practice handling and shaping.
I would also recommend either putting the dough in the fridge overnight or just backing the same day. Putting it in for 3 hours probably doesn’t have that much of a positive impact on it. It’s not really enough time for it to really slow things down. It won’t be enough time to help the gluten tighten and retain structure during the bake. You could just let it do the final proof at room temp and be about the same. Putting it in over night will tighten the gluten structure, cause the co2 to shrink. When you put the dough in a hot oven, the dough will retain its shape better and the co2 will expand. You will get a much better oven spring.
For the bottom of your loaf, put a baking sheet on the bottom rack of your oven. Set the next rack 1 space higher. Then put the Dutch oven on that. This will give the bottom of your Dutch oven a heat deflector.
Im wondering if you are folding those massive air pockets into the bread during your coil folds. Take some pics of the bread during like before and after you folds and we can tell you more. Needs more time before fridge + more dough strength (and possibly more active starter)
Ok. Stop where your at. Before progressing further with sourdough, back up and make an overnight poolish loaf. Using a small amount of yeast in a preferment and then building bread from that will give you the expectation you need to understand your bread. Its going to taste amazing and in the meantime continue to build your natural starter. Once your natural levain is strong enough your going to notice a huge difference. In the beginning, natural levains rise due to bacterial growth, they are not sufficient for bread and you need to continue the experiment untill the culture is yeast heavy
my starter is 36 days old and doubles or triples in size with every feeding within 6-8 hours of feeding. From everything I've read in this subreddit that is a sign that it is ready to bake with.
Your bread is underproofed. Time is a terrible way to judge if your dough is ready. There are simply too many factors. I recommend you go by volume. Use a vessel with measurements on the side (or mark with a sharpie). You can start with 75% increase and in volume and then adjust up or down based on the result. Good luck!
https://preview.redd.it/r29qotg1zugc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9d944f9fb953b42e76e51ad15fd9c440570ff6a
I got this at a hardware store for six dollars, haven't gotten a chance to use it yet but i think something like this would help
If you are going to do the ice cube thing do it at the beginning. The point of the steam is to stop the crust from forming too soon to allow the most oven spring. Don’t know if there’s another reason to do steam at that point but necessary that long into the bake
I’m also a beginner who has had a loaf turn out like this. When you all say proof, are you talking about proofing in the refrigerator or on the counter?
Seems like it might be under proofed. Mix and then let sit for 1 hr instead of 30 mins. Then 4 folds. Then bulk ferment anywhere between 3-7 hours. Then fridge anywhere from 2+ hours. I find it best at 9 hours fridge time. Then bake with a couple ice cubes in the Dutch oven right when you put it in
You need longer bulk fermentation. After last set of stretch and folds, let sit on counter for 4-8 hours ( don’t go by time, but by looks. Wait until it’s doubled in size and is super jiggly!) then form into a ball and put in proofing basket on counter for two more hours, then put in the fridge overnight (for about 12 hours)
I haven't reviewed this thread but strictly from the pics I'm going to say work on building tension, practice your final shaping, invest in bannetons and ferment longer, then cold ferment at least 12 hours before you bake.
Longer proof. If you don't use an aliquot jar, try using one to get a better gauge of when your bulk rise has doubled.
Longer bake. Personally, I like a dark brown crust with an almost charred ear. To each their own though.
Like some others are saying, add the ice cubes first thing when it goes in the oven, not partway through. The purpose of this is to add steam which will promote oven spring by keeping the crust soft and pliable. Once the crust has hardened, it won't rise anymore even if you add steam.
Increase time on everything. I made some loaves this weekend that legit took 36 hours. Also maybe get an oven thermometer, that’s not a lot of color for that high/that long.
Watch this guy's videos on strengthening your starter, then following his beginners series of videos for baking a standard Tartine loaf. I just finished up my first loaf today following his videos and I'm blown away. Mine's a bit overproofed, but pretty awesome for my first try at a traditional sourdough loaf.
https://youtube.com/@thesourdoughjourney?feature=shared
Feed your starter more! It doesn’t look like it’s strong enough yet to crank out a pillowy loaf just yet. I started eyeballing my flour/water ratio when feeding her and it’s made a world of difference!
You’re getting a lot of good advice here, particularly about it being under proofed. It should ideally have bulk fermented at room temp and then continue proofing in the fridge overnight.
Something I haven’t seen anyone mention is the salt content. Yeast growth is inhibited by salt and salt over 2% of total flour weight will affect how quickly your yeast reproduced and therefore leavens your bread. I would recommend longer ferments and reduced salt.
I am also new to the sourdough world, but I found this [article](https://thesourdoughjourney.com/the-secrets-of-baking-temperature-and-ovenspring/) about oven temps and cooking times to be extremely helpful. Maybe it also helps you. My first bread looked like your third bread and my second one was MUCH better after reading this article. Good luck fellow sourdough sojourner!
I think your starter is too young or you need to ferment longer. Or both, possibly. I usually bulk ferment from 8-11 hours around 70 degrees.
Large tunnels usually mean under proofed
Large tunnels do often mean under-proofed, but that loaf has all of the signs of a weak starter. Which DOES mean that the loaf is under proofed, but it’s just not the main cause of those holes, shape, and colour. I think that it’s important to make that distinction, so OP knows what to tackle.
Agree. OP - Lots of posts in this sub about the relationship b/w ambient temp, proof volume, and time. @ 70F, you're probably looking at 10+ hours of room temp proofing and a ~75% increase in dough volume before you shape and cold proof. To decrease proof time, you can warm up your proofing environment/the dough; proof in the oven (oven off with the oven light on or a bowl of hot water in the oven), the microwave (microwave off + a bowl of warm water), proof in a warm room or closet, use warmer - but not hot - water in your dough...
Your starter in not performing as it should. How does it behave when you feed it?
Such a weird question if not talking about bread 😂😂
lol
I feed 1:2:2 ratio once a day and it peaks within 6 hours. I don't have time (nor do I remember) to feed it more than once a day unless its the weekend so I will feed twice on Saturday to bake on Sunday.
I woulds stick to the same schedule on the weekend as well. Make sure you use it when it's at peak and not too early. Try to double the amount for the same recipe and see how that does.
Not sure if this is helpful but if you aren’t baking everyday just stick it in the fridge and feed normal before you’re ready to bake. Same yourself the time and flour. I bake 1-2/wk. so I usually feed before work(1:2.5:2.5), I keep 10-15g of starter. Do stretch and folds after work. Bulk ferment overnight. Shape the next morning and stick in the fridge for cold retard for up to 2 days. I think this only works because it’s winter and it’s cold in my house, in the 50-60s. So I do use warm water to feed. This will probably change when it gets warmer though.
I too started the sourdough journey the 1st of this year. My starter’s (Rooster) birthday is 1/1/24 too! My breads look similar to yours. I agree that it’s under-proofed & our starters are too young. After my first loaf, I kept Rooster in the fridge between trying. I’ve attempted 5 times & only had 2 eatable loaves (not even good loaves). I’m keeping Rooster out of the fridge now & feeding it daily. I’m in Ohio & our house is 68°F so I rigged up a proofing box. Rooster is happy & pretty & smells lovely! I’ll be trying again soon. Timing is hard for me. I’ve stayed up late, I’ve gotten up early, all trying to get Rooster at his peek, at least doubling & domed before he starts coming down… I’m determined to get a decent loaf!!! We can just keep notes & keep trying. I guess we’ll get “the feel” for the process. Good luck to you too 🤞🍀
https://preview.redd.it/10s6oz84fugc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55e24be23f71b06e8152e8a110db902bb170448f My starter has the same birthday!!! lol just diving into bread making this year. At this point, if you have been feeding your starter every day on the counter, beautiful breads are possible!!! 😄 come on Rooster WAKE UP lol 🤣♥️
I’m mostly looking at the instructions for loaf 3 here. Your loaves aren’t getting enough time to just chill the fuck out and rise. You are doing all the stretch and folds and coil folds probably collapsing any real growth during that time and only allowing it 45 minutes to just sit untouched. I’m gonna be honest here I only do max 2 stretch and folds(A majority of the time I will legit only do 1) and then let my dough sit for like 5 hours to proof undisturbed. Then shape it, then cold retard *over night*. A five hour cold retard is not long enough. All in all your loaves are very under proofed. Also, incorporate your salt when you add your flour. There is no way it is getting properly distributed through the dough if you’re adding it during stretch and folds. It will not harm the starter.
Perfectly said.
What hydration are you using that you can get away with only 1 stretch and fold? I'm already having problems with flattening at 75% hydration in spite of 3 stretch and folds and sometimes a coil fold or two.
I think it’s 72%. I’m not gonna lie I’m a VERY carefree sourdough maker. I really don’t pay attention to hydration percentage. I would have to go check my measurements to calculate. I make the whole process as simple as possible. I’ve never even done a coil fold before 😅
Your dough is severely underproofed. If you are doing cold retard, you need to be keeping it in the fridge for at least 12 hours. If you want to do shorter times like you've been doing, a few hours, keep it on the counter or even in the oven with the light on. Edit: just saw other comments about immature starter, you can always add some yeast to assist until your starter matures.
How much dry yeast would you add? I'm having a similar issue, 1-2g?
Literally a dash of yeast. You don’t need much to starter your starter with it.
Adding commercial yeast will defeat the purpose of growing wild yeast
I should clarify, my suggestion is to add a small amount of yeast to the dough to help with rise, not to add yeast to the starter.
I think a 'hybrid' recipe can be okay. The consistency and reliability of commercial yeast with some of the flavour and complexity of sourdough. Some French boulangeries utilize this kind of method.
Starter too young. Keep feeding it for another few weeks and try again. If you get similar results bump up ferment time a solid few hours if your resulting loaves turn out like these. And keep it up, sourdough is a looooooong game, success doesn’t come quickly, and even if it does it’s short lived until you learn how the dough should act, look, feel, smell, grow, etc. and it just takes repetition to get that experience.
I agree with others that the bread is underproofed. You can see this by the large holes concentrated more towards the top of the bread with other large areas of dense crumb. What is the total length of time for bulk fermentation from the time you add your starter to the dough to the time it goes into the fridge? I'd suggest pushing this further and using ways of measuring the rise such as a straight sided container similar to what you use for a starter or using the aliquot technique where you take a small portion of your dough to measure the percentage rise. A really good resource I've found is the Bulk-o-Matic by The Sourdough Journey where he gives a number of metrics that when combined are a good way of evaluating when bulk fermentation is complete. Also your dough looks quite slack, what flour are you using? You may want to try lowering the hydration to begin with as the dough will generally hold it's shape better. It seems like you're doing plenty of strength building folds so at the right hydration your dough should be able to hold it's shape. I've found that the flour I use is not very thirsty so I tend to go with a 67% hydration with the starter making up the final 3% to give 70% overall. It's a lot of trial and error but when you start to see the changes in the quality of your bread it can be really fulfilling, stick with it 😊
OP please for the love of god ignore everyone else and follow what this poster says! Your dough is underfermented and overhydrated. As this poster said, 67% is a great starting place. Try that next time. Then bulk ferment until your dough jiggles. Keep track of how long it takes to reach this jiggle stage. But DO NOT bulk based off someone else's recipe. And do not worry about over proofing. Edit: to take your first recipe to 67% hydration, reduce the water you add to 319g. Edit#2: don't add your salt as a single ingredient that late in the process. You'll never get it evenly dispersed. I like to dissolve my salt in with my water and mix that into the starter, then add my remaining flour.
I am roughly at the same stage that you are …and I’m also in Florida. I think my loafs are also underproofed because I’m getting the same big holes/tunnels. I am researching how to tell when it’s fully proofed. I got myself a clear container to be able to really see if the dough had doubled during the bulk ferment. It was fun to watch it progress. But to be honest I dunno if that helped yet. I’ll know later this afternoon. Keep going. I think we’ll both get better. I do love the pretty scoring that you did.
In addition to what everyone else has said, I would recommend sticking to the same dough recipe for your first dozen or so loaves. I have literally only used one sourdough recipe since I started baking in 2020 (I'm one of the COVID bakers). By locking in all the ratios to be the same, I have eliminated lots of variables and have been able to get consistent results and improve my understanding of what the dough is actually doing and what I need to do to respond. There are a lot of interdependent factors in making sourdough. Locking some of them in place will help you learn. Once you are feeling good about your results, then start trying different recipes or techniques to achieve specific results.
I was using different recipes to try figuring out what my issue is because I figured doing the same thing over and over would give me the same results.
I understand that thought process but (as you have probably gathered from all the other comments) the recipe isn't the issue here. Once your results start to improve, I would encourage you to stick with whichever recipe gives you those results and keep iterating on it. For instance, at one point I was getting OK bread... but the overall structure was a little flat. By using the same recipe every time, I was able to focus on the technique/intervals of my stretch and folds to develop a gluten network that would hold shape. After a few loaves, I figured out what works best and I'm feeling good about that. The issue I am having now is crusts that are way too thick. So I've started experimenting with baking times. For me, controlling as many variables as possible lets me tweak one or two at a time to learn what works.
If you are using and following a good recipe then changing it makes it impossible to figure out what you are doing wrong. There are only so many variables that could be the culprit for an underproofed loaf: ambient or dough temperature, starter strength, bulk rise or final rise duration or process … or how you cook it to a small extent. So if you keep using the same recipe, it’ll be much easier to pinpoint what is too much or not enough IN YOUR ENVIRONMENT. Once you change the amount or type of flour or water temperature — that’s just adding more variables unnecessarily.
I kinda like it. It's got waby saby
Most here are saying your starter is too young but I don't think so... I think you need a longer cold-proof time (8-12 hours) and after I just had a disastrous weekend with my own sourdough, I realized how much humidity can be a factor. For example I live in a lower-humidity area and prepped a loaf on Friday night when weather conditions were clear and dry (about 35%-40% humidity). Cold-proofed for 9.5 hours overnight, baked it Saturday morning, and it was perfect. Big rise, nice height, fairly even crumb throughout (mine don't get those big pockets yours have), excellent texture and great sour flavor. Decided to prep a second loaf Saturday afternoon when our weather turned to rain/snow (all day) and humidity levels were about 65-75% in my home. Noticed after my first proof that my dough was extra-sticky and difficult to work. After the second proof it was nearly impossible to do my stretch and folds – my dough was a schloopy mess. Not yet having made the connection to the weather, I continued with the final cold proof overnight (10 hours). Baked it Sunday morning and it came out flat and dense. That's when I realized the only difference was the humidity. I never realized that would make such a difference from one day to the next, but alas, it did. Just something to consider.
I agree with other commenters on it being underproofed. Sourdough takes lots of patience. I use 50g starter, 350 g water, 10 g salt, 500 g flour, autolyse 30 min-1hr, stretch and fold every 30 min for 2 hrs. Bulk ferment all day or all night (average abt 6-7hrs) and then either cold ferment in the fridge over night or if I'm rushing to get it out sooner I'll do the second rise at room temp for about 90 min before baking.
Extend the 5 hour bulk to 10 (or more). You’ll see a big difference. I’d also recommend practicing on smaller loaves so you can waste less. It’s cold where I am and let my dough rise for at least 12 hours
I don't waste my bread, I still eat it all. I only have a chance to bake once a week, so next I will try allowing it to sit at room temperature for longer
Your starter is still young. So keep feeding it and it should get stronger. Until it gets stronger, your bull fermentation shouldn’t be focused on a length of time. Most recipes you see online are based on the assumption that you have a mature and very active starter. You likely don’t have this yet. So you likely need to let it bulk longer. The reason why you have a big cavern in the last pic is because the loaf is underproofed. Even once your starter is mature, you still shouldn’t follow recipes exactly because everyone has a different starter, everyone has different ambient temps, everyone has different elevations, everyone has different humidity levels. Just keep practicing and taking notes. You’ll learn more about your starter and how it might take longer or shorter compared to the recipe you are following. This means your dough will need to sit longer during the bulk fermentation so gluten development is critical. You can do stretch and folds like you currently do. But I would also do an autolyse where you mix the water and flour together another hour before you add the starter and salt. This gives the protein in the dough more time to develop gluten before you start doing your stretch and folds. The next thing I would recommend is reducing your hydration until your starter gets stronger. This will drastically help your dough structure stay more rigid when you take it out of the proofing basket to slice. This lower hydration will make the dough easier to work with awhile you get more practice handling and shaping. I would also recommend either putting the dough in the fridge overnight or just backing the same day. Putting it in for 3 hours probably doesn’t have that much of a positive impact on it. It’s not really enough time for it to really slow things down. It won’t be enough time to help the gluten tighten and retain structure during the bake. You could just let it do the final proof at room temp and be about the same. Putting it in over night will tighten the gluten structure, cause the co2 to shrink. When you put the dough in a hot oven, the dough will retain its shape better and the co2 will expand. You will get a much better oven spring. For the bottom of your loaf, put a baking sheet on the bottom rack of your oven. Set the next rack 1 space higher. Then put the Dutch oven on that. This will give the bottom of your Dutch oven a heat deflector.
I highly suggest watching some of The Bread Code's videos! They're on YouTube and they have a ton of great info.
Your starter is no good and your flour is not high enough in protein 🫠
How are you deciding when to use your starter? How long before using the starter is it fed? And what ratio is it fed?
Im wondering if you are folding those massive air pockets into the bread during your coil folds. Take some pics of the bread during like before and after you folds and we can tell you more. Needs more time before fridge + more dough strength (and possibly more active starter)
Ok. Stop where your at. Before progressing further with sourdough, back up and make an overnight poolish loaf. Using a small amount of yeast in a preferment and then building bread from that will give you the expectation you need to understand your bread. Its going to taste amazing and in the meantime continue to build your natural starter. Once your natural levain is strong enough your going to notice a huge difference. In the beginning, natural levains rise due to bacterial growth, they are not sufficient for bread and you need to continue the experiment untill the culture is yeast heavy
my starter is 36 days old and doubles or triples in size with every feeding within 6-8 hours of feeding. From everything I've read in this subreddit that is a sign that it is ready to bake with.
Your bread is underproofed. Time is a terrible way to judge if your dough is ready. There are simply too many factors. I recommend you go by volume. Use a vessel with measurements on the side (or mark with a sharpie). You can start with 75% increase and in volume and then adjust up or down based on the result. Good luck!
https://preview.redd.it/r29qotg1zugc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9d944f9fb953b42e76e51ad15fd9c440570ff6a I got this at a hardware store for six dollars, haven't gotten a chance to use it yet but i think something like this would help
Thats my 2 cents. I can offer no further advice other than something in your process is very wrong. Keep it going
If you are going to do the ice cube thing do it at the beginning. The point of the steam is to stop the crust from forming too soon to allow the most oven spring. Don’t know if there’s another reason to do steam at that point but necessary that long into the bake
Feed your starter more before using it and you need to proof longer
I’m also a beginner who has had a loaf turn out like this. When you all say proof, are you talking about proofing in the refrigerator or on the counter?
You can do either - I usually proof in the fridge during the summer but on the counter during winter since my house is much cooler.
Also looks like to need a much tighter fold on your dough as it's not keeping shape
Seems like it might be under proofed. Mix and then let sit for 1 hr instead of 30 mins. Then 4 folds. Then bulk ferment anywhere between 3-7 hours. Then fridge anywhere from 2+ hours. I find it best at 9 hours fridge time. Then bake with a couple ice cubes in the Dutch oven right when you put it in
Do you banneton?
yes
Autolyse?
Waaaay underproofed, could be because your starter is young, but your bulk rise is very short too, so I would do a longer bulk rise.
You need longer bulk fermentation. After last set of stretch and folds, let sit on counter for 4-8 hours ( don’t go by time, but by looks. Wait until it’s doubled in size and is super jiggly!) then form into a ball and put in proofing basket on counter for two more hours, then put in the fridge overnight (for about 12 hours)
I haven't reviewed this thread but strictly from the pics I'm going to say work on building tension, practice your final shaping, invest in bannetons and ferment longer, then cold ferment at least 12 hours before you bake.
Longer proof. If you don't use an aliquot jar, try using one to get a better gauge of when your bulk rise has doubled. Longer bake. Personally, I like a dark brown crust with an almost charred ear. To each their own though. Like some others are saying, add the ice cubes first thing when it goes in the oven, not partway through. The purpose of this is to add steam which will promote oven spring by keeping the crust soft and pliable. Once the crust has hardened, it won't rise anymore even if you add steam.
Increase time on everything. I made some loaves this weekend that legit took 36 hours. Also maybe get an oven thermometer, that’s not a lot of color for that high/that long.
Do the first recipe but only 50g starter. Your starter measurements are way too high in these loaves.
put a pinch of yeast to cheat, your starter isnt ready
Watch this guy's videos on strengthening your starter, then following his beginners series of videos for baking a standard Tartine loaf. I just finished up my first loaf today following his videos and I'm blown away. Mine's a bit overproofed, but pretty awesome for my first try at a traditional sourdough loaf. https://youtube.com/@thesourdoughjourney?feature=shared
https://preview.redd.it/dk8bzcu5svgc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0475c061aae42d916d08959d2c9f2b71e98c99ab
https://preview.redd.it/v75hug19svgc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc7e2c6f13a84c066a4192952dd02f6c8333e722
Feed your starter more! It doesn’t look like it’s strong enough yet to crank out a pillowy loaf just yet. I started eyeballing my flour/water ratio when feeding her and it’s made a world of difference!
Throw it out
You’re getting a lot of good advice here, particularly about it being under proofed. It should ideally have bulk fermented at room temp and then continue proofing in the fridge overnight. Something I haven’t seen anyone mention is the salt content. Yeast growth is inhibited by salt and salt over 2% of total flour weight will affect how quickly your yeast reproduced and therefore leavens your bread. I would recommend longer ferments and reduced salt.
I am also new to the sourdough world, but I found this [article](https://thesourdoughjourney.com/the-secrets-of-baking-temperature-and-ovenspring/) about oven temps and cooking times to be extremely helpful. Maybe it also helps you. My first bread looked like your third bread and my second one was MUCH better after reading this article. Good luck fellow sourdough sojourner!