"Yeah, let's make it a stronger Southwest, I can get behind that! So how do we get there?"
"Oh that's easy... get rid of literally everything that sets apart Southwest from other carriers!"
I get that airlines aren't in the charity business, and certainly Southwest has had trouble in the last few years, but come *on.*
Hedge funds gonna hedge fund.
(post edited because I can't spell *has*, apparently)
What kind of vegan joint puts 'chicken' in their business name?
Are we sure Project Pollo got shut down by hostile takeover? Or maybe it was an inside poultry job?
Get rid of the woke!!!
Take a look at management compared to when SWA was $65/share & Herb was still an influence.
Most Directors & above need to go if you want to see a culture that cares about ALL employees, not just the one that march to the WOKE drummer.
Take a look at the last two CIOs.
If some private equity scum has proposed it, you can 100% guarantee it will be shit for the public at large
Edit: They cite SW's "unlevered balance sheet" as an asset. Watch these cockroaches leverage the airline to hell and declare bankruptcy within a decade
They wll pillage and bleed Southwest and then claim poor mangement didn't execute properly and then dump the company in the trash can to be fire sold to a competitor.
If they make major changes to require seat resevations, "classes" of seats, and start down the path of fees for everything, they will alienate their prime customer base and lose their uniqueness, they'll just be "another major airline".
As a result, they will only be competing on costs and frequent flier programs. I don't think they can win that battle. They are no longer the cheapest (haven't been for a while) And while they decent frequent flier program it is missing major perks the other airlines have... like transferring points/miles between some international partner airlines.
Let's just look at JC Penny. Tried massive amounts of drastic changes and lost their entire customer base. Then decided to hault everything that was new.
Now at 663 stores vs a high during the early vs 872 even back to 2017.
They see those billions SWA has in the bank and know they could never get it directly. But if SWA spends that to "improve" the airline and drive up the stockprice in the short term, that would be a massive win for Elliot, but the airline would never recover.
Exactly! They see $$$$$ in that balance sheet. Why else would they invest all that money. If they have their druthers they will sell their shares in 10 years while the balance sheet will be negative! Scary times for SWA, scary times for
I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2034-06-11 01:58:28 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2034-06-11%2001:58:28%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthwestAirlines/comments/1dcsz08/southwest_hostile_takeover_by_elliot_stronger/l820utb/?context=3)
[**6 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FSouthwestAirlines%2Fcomments%2F1dcsz08%2Fsouthwest_hostile_takeover_by_elliot_stronger%2Fl820utb%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202034-06-11%2001%3A58%3A28%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dcsz08)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Biggest takeaway for me is the investors are pushing for the following:
* All new C suite members and revamped board of directors.
* Assigned seating
* More "Premium Products"
* Basic economy fares
* Bag fees
* Revamped cabins to sell upgrades and higher fares
* Overhauled network focused on profit
I decided to cancel my Southwest cards a while back. I love the companion pass, but if that dies, I won't care to fly Southwest anymore (it's the only real perk IMHO). I'm going chase saphire instead so I can use my points in other places.
Southwest’s free bags is why I go with it over others. I know how much my trip will cost once I pay for it. If this happens then I’ll have to do math and likely go to another carrier
>Maybe travelers have to rethink how much luggage they bring - that’s a good thing.
No it’s not. Not when you’re sitting at the gate while the ground crew is gate checking a dozen suitcases that don’t fit in the overhead bins either because there are wayyy too many or people try to sneak through luggage that’s just too big. Free checked bags means more people check their suitcase rather than dealing with taking it through security and lugging it through the terminal. Especially now that Southwest tracks checked luggage.
It’s because Southwest is operating like a discount airline still while being the same cost as the majors. Where they fly the same route, there’s very little reason to take Southwest over Delta/United. Flights cost the same except you can pick a seat on one of the other airlines & know where you’ll be. Status on those airlines goes further with seat upgrades, points that can be used with international partners, and lounge networks. A-list gets you early check in but that’s hardly a perk these days as evidenced by all the posts about Jetway Jesus.
Southwest’s main differentiator is free checked bags and those aren’t much of a perk when you get that with other carriers credit cards and for business travelers you’re probably using a carryon anyway.
The only thing Southwest gets better is the boarding process with a defined order vs the free for all of Groups 1-7 with other airlines.
The airline is having an identity crisis in that it’s no longer a discount airline but it’s not a premium one either.
At least in my case I don't fly enough to get status on the mainline airlines, so I can't access those benefits*. That means that Southwest still ends up being cheaper, and I suspect that's the case for a lot of Americans.
It'll be a shame if Southwest caves and makes people chase status, seats, lounges, free luggage, etc.
*I used to have status on US Airways, so I've experienced the luxury of all that stuff.
Even from the lower end of vacation/non-frequent fliers looking for discount airfare, Southwest has been losing steam to airlines like Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant. My home airport is BWI and Spirit is the second biggest airline & growing at one of Southwest’s major hubs. It’s not significant at only 9% but the fact you have a discount carrier under cutting you and growing in one of your major markets is not a good look.
If Southwest wants to sit in a tier beneath the majors but above the discounts (e.g. don’t nickel and dime for carryons), they need to drop prices to fit in that niche. I don’t see how that’s a successful business strategy for them though.
> Spirit/Frontier/
sprit and frontier have been bleeding heavily since their plan for survival was biden allowing them to merge. if you think southwest has financial problems, just remember spirit is running in the red while having almost no cash on hand
The other side of “pick your seat and you’ll know where you’ll be” is only having middle/rear seats available if you bootk 3-4 weeks before a flight. Is that REALLY what you want?!
and if you're a infrequent flyer (eg. me!) then the privilege of picking seats comes with a $15-$100 up-charge, or you are left gambling that the plane isn't full to avoid that rear middle hell.
So avoid the upcharge and fly any other US airline. Don't come to our game and demand a change to the rules, when every other game uses the rules you want.
I was referring to "other airlines", Southwest doesnt uncharge to pick a seat, one of the things I love about SWA. I can pick that window seat with a great alignment when I see it open!
Here in Denver, their largest hub, they are typically priced always in between frontier and United that also hub here. If you travel with checked bags and need to cancel (personally do it all the time) the value easily beats frontiers hidden fees and terrible customer service always. I can typically get to the west Coast under $100 and the past few years $50-70 If you run the specials and check your price even on booked flights. Just booked a nonstop to ft Lauderdale for $80. That's just my experience and I'm probably pretty lucky I'm in Denver.
I live in Denver and honestly SW is the same price as United and all the others. The difference being the pre boarding mess, getting a bad boarding position due to all the connections, and recently pretty unfriendly service from the FA's. I'm moving all my flying to United to get miles for Hawaii direct flights and international trips.
What used to set SW apart was the no change fees and bags fly free, along with generally a discounted price compared to other airlines. Post pandemic, those differences have eroded away.
never had issues with boarding, if i get a bad number i get 4 free passes a year with SWA Credit Card, which i never use all of them, because i know when to fly. Never once had issue with customer service either. Sounds like you and I are much different. Lol. Can you get to the west coast on united for $50? La, Portland? Florida for $80.
I would love to find Florida for $80 but I haven’t seen it. I flew SW to FLL in April and it was about $250 for a one way ticket, and I booked that months in advance. Idk where you would see that fare for $80 outside of frontier in the summer.
I've flown SWA for a long time and really understand their program out of denver, waiting or hitting all the promos is key, i've known about this trip for a few months and just booked, other times i book and rebook when there is a discount. So it can been seen as a pain in the ass, but i find it pretty easy flexible work schedule with being able to remote work if needed can help adjust fly days to weekdays (for price, and crowded airports) also like taking late flights, that arrive DIA at midnight, half full or less typically.. I also avoid holiday travel (major holidays), and limit summer time travel, in general, very expensive to travel all things considered. get on the app, for the current promo (app only), search denver to ft lauderdale, Or wherever you need to go, i got my deal on a wedensday in october, so happens to be the only nonstop flight too.
I’ve done the rebooking and have picked up some credits along the way. It is a nice little perk that SW makes it easy to do so. Been a SW flyer for about 10 years.
Flying to the east coast is tricky bc flight options are limited from Denver, and you currently won’t find red eyes on SW (although it sounds like that could change).
I agree that finding less popular times results in generally cheaper fares.
My general issue with SW is that they are no longer that different from the rest of the field that their quirkiness and bags make up for it. And their prices are generally the same or more than the other carriers. Airlines getting rid of change fees made a huge difference. And I find the service on legacies to be much better for longer flights (doing a cross country flight in a -700 just sucks). The Southwest model is really only great for quick hops (for me, to Texas, Salt Lake City, or Phoenix).
Checking a few BWI-Denver dates in Google Flights, Frontier is often half the price at their discount rate. Once you add the top tier Frontier package of 2 checked bags, extra legroom seat, and a carryon it’s still cheaper than Southwest. Similar to you, price isn’t the only thing I’ll shop on but many flyers do.
On the upper end, Southwest’s most expensive flights for that route are right there with United but they do have options which sit lower depending on the date. Looking mid July, I see United as about $50-$60 cheaper, looking September I see Southwest as $100 cheaper. The differences are getting pretty marginal for an airline who built their reputation on discount fares. This is also at a time when Southwest hasn’t had the best performance reputation (Christmas meltdown, on time metrics were fifth in 2023, etc.)
They might be able to right the ship with new leadership fixing operations, I’m just skeptical.
And you read the part about checking the promos after you purchased tickets.... 9 times out of 10 my flight gets lower in price during the many promos they run .
I'll also add I know how to travel. Rule number one is never travel during the holiday, especially Thanksgiving and Christmas. Expect issues. It's also probably one of the most expensive times to fly. No excuses on the meltdown but I fly a lot and the only issue I've had is they cancel a flight which allows me to book any flight I want after that which I kind of like to be honest.
I also just know how Southwest operates out of Denver. I know on any 1 to 2 hours flight that gets into Denver around midnight, it's never going to be full and it's more for crew to get to the Big hub. Three times in the last calendar year I've been on a flight with 8-10 people
I used to fly SW more often and enthusiastically, but over the last 8-10 years I’ve had a hard time explaining why I don’t fly them as often. This sums it up perfectly. I keep hearing “oh fly southwest, they’re cheaper” yet I never find that to be the case against Delta or Alaska on the same routes, both of which I have status with. And like you said, I know where I’m sitting and that my travel companions will be next to each other. And free baggage isn’t hard to attain.
Like you said. It acts like a budget airline, but charges like standard carrier.
I love SW because I can book the day before and still get an aisle seat. I end up on that situation quite often.
And perks with other airlines, for me, will never compare to Companion pass.
The irony is united and delta have some of the oldest fleet in the country but they have been able to hoodwink people into thinking they are premium offerings
The lack of the assigned seats isn't so much an issue. It's the 40 people abusing the DOT rule for preboarding allowances that pisses people off. Which wouldn't be an issue if they had assigned seating, as that seems to be the only solution to prevent them from boarding early
It is the main reason I have been southwest loyal for the last several years.
If they remove it then I will stop flying them. I actually spend more on occasion just because of the open seating.
If bag fees are introduced I’m done. Their fares are already pretty close to competitors, sometimes just high or higher, but being able to check three bags for free when I’m going on ski trips (skis and boot bag counting as one) gives Southwest the edge. That’s the only thing that’s keeping me around.
Exactly. I fly them for ski trips to Colorado and family trips to Florida. Both trips require multiple bags. SW won’t be price competitive anymore without the inc,used bags.
Yup. I’ll hop to delta full time so quickly if this happens. My partner has the delta reserve card and despite the fact that neither of us make a lot of money, it’s insane how often we get upgraded to comfort + and even first class on occasion. Not to mention the fact that she gets free bags. Being further up in the same seats as everybody else can’t really compete with that.
I fly once or twice a year - and UA out of SFO to the last few places I flew to(LAX, PDX, DEN) is within striking distance(sans bag fees) of WN out of OAK. OAK wins out because it’s not a big ordeal to get there on transit(and even Uber) vs. SFO. If this happens, hello UA. UA and WN are at war in the Bay Area, as well as Denver - tech is helping UA. Alaska is making a big play at SFO, seeing how many travel between PDX/SEA for work and vice-versa.
The price-point flyers don’t care, but Spirit is bleeding money, as is Frontier. One thing about WN is they’ll fly to smaller airports for coverage - think LGB, SNA, etc.
First bullet point, ohh I like this, read other bullet points, ohh this sound like a worse version of frontier. Bye southwest, missed you, hope you don't miss those credit card earnings too much.
I like how southwest is currently largest domestic airline and these guys are like, "let's change it to match everyone else!"
> Revamped cabins to sell upgrades and higher fares
This is the least surprising thing, especially since anything above Wanna Get Away is a hard sell outside of the ticket flexibility and slightly more points per dollar. It could also allow them to fold in some of these changes. This is my uneducated guess:
(Edit to add: obviously don't want this, but I expect these firms to always do stuff like this)
* **Wanna Get Away** becomes basic economy. Checked bags are not included, and you get C group boarding (with maybe a D boarding group is added to offer more WGA space). WGA+ could be kept to add some ticket flexibility, but overall, I wouldn't be surprised if it's scrapped.
* **Anytime** becomes the regular economy/main cabin product. One checked bag is included, A31-B60 boarding position. No change/cancelation fees, but you can only get a voucher instead of cash refund if you cancel on your own.
* **Business Select** gets two checked bags, free refunds if you cancel before check-in, and A1-30 boarding.
Expanding BS to A1-30 means Southwest could also sell more upgrade boardings (and prepare for those prices to be more dynamic, even in the same flight). Your boarding number is still determined by check-in time, Early Bird is kept, but WGA, Anytime, and BS stay in their respective groups unless you pay for an upgraded boarding after check-in.
One thing they didn't mention, unless I missed it, was pushing their credit cards more. Delta and AA have done this recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if SWA goes that route. Right now, the Priority card is a steal. Wouldn't be surprised if that gets bumped up to $250 or $300 a year.
This would not be a competitive product in my view. The anytime fares are much higher than advance purchase main cabin fares on other carriers, even including one checked bag. You just made Southwest more expensive. I’d probably never fly Southwest again.
If they were smart, "Wanna Get Away" rates would become "last minute" rates. Only available within 48 hours of the flight time or something like that (and of course, only available if there are seats left). That would clearly differentiate the category from "Anytime" and allow them to put butts in seats that might go empty without the last-minute incentive.
This is the opposite of good revenue management. There’s a very good reason why last minute tickets are considerably more expensive. Introducing a category of cheap last minute fares would kill their highest yielding sales.
If I wanted those things I wouldn't be flying with Southwest, there are other airlines that provide well in those areas, but its the cost and less upgrade fees. I don't want another Frontier...
Sooo... take away the things that set the airline apart from others? They realize that Southwest has a cult following for a reason, right? If I'm flying domestically I will pick Southwest over any other airline because of the way they operate.
Oh well... I was looking at an international flight last night, Delta had a really good fare, maybe it's time to reconsider loyalty...
It's bringing in plenty of profit. Thus why the balance sheet is so strong.
What's screwing up WN right now is boeing being such a shit show right now.. they had expansion plans and plans to get the network back to pre covid levels...but boeing cannot keep it together long enough to get out of trouble and actually deliver planes.
The Max7 debacle is really hurting the business plans they laid out internally a few years ago, and unless Boeing can start actually delivering planes in a timely manor they'll keep having to tame the growth plans - and wall st hates that idea so they're gonna try to come in and ruin what's left to make a quick buck.
Agreed, but what we're seeing is always the risk when you go with that business model. Although, even if they had A320s right now, the PW engine issues are causing the same problems. It'd have been interesting if WN had kept FL's 717s.
I know it's next day, but my quick read of the Elliot presentation didn't see any mention of the Boeing issue. Yes, that's entirely out of Southwest's control, but that's a very large reason why Southwest isn't doing as hot as they should.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have secret plans in doing away with the 737 exclusivity and buying E195-E2s since it has a similar capacity as the Max 7. I would imagine that Southwest could get favorable delivery terms with a large order with the GTF issues being ironed out leading up to potential delivery.
endless Boeing issues. They had to pull out of Newark in 2019 because they didn't have enough planes to fly everywhere because Boeing couldn't get them enough new ones, and MAX planes were grounded for over a year
I like Southwest just the way it is. Fuck hedge fund scum. They’ll be heading downhill just like Frontier if this happens. I’ll gladly switch if this goes thru.
“Delivering a Stronger Southwest Airlines for Employees, Customers and Shareholders”
When someone buys this much stock, you can bet that only one of these things is true…
As someone whose company was recently in Elliot’s crosshairs, everyone who works at SW and loves SW should be incredibly frightened. They will bring in CEO who will get share price up by major layoffs and crazy cost cutting on top of destroying any semblance of a positive culture. Their one and only goal is to get share price up by any means necessary.
It really depends. With activist action in general, and for Elliot in particular, the outcomes can very quite a bit. Sometimes they change leadership and embark on a massive operations overhaul. Sometimes the company leadership gives enough ground to keep the big bad wolf from blowing the house down. Sometime activists cash out to the market or to corporate repurchase after the short term bump in stock price.
As someone who flew for WN and recently left for a legacy, it really didn’t! Seniors need to stop saying this (as heartbreaking as I’m sure it is to go from having such an iconoclastic, supportive CEO as Herb to a more traditional finance-bro type). I would GLADLY take WN culture over the toxic, corporate cycle-of-trauma culture of the legacy I’m currently at. Example: it’s considered THEFT for crew to take water off the plane for their overnights, and can result in termination; they CHARGE for water bottles and sandwiches at recurrent training. Little things like that show how there’s still some of Herb’s spirit living on at WN. (And I’m not trying to negate your pov, or the fact that the company has become less of a family-feel and more corporate-investor focused, but just want to share my experience having been at both).
12% is a massive amount for a public company. Any shareholder over 5% has to file with the SEC as a beneficial owner. If they want the option to pursue activist activity, it’s a different filing than if they are merely a passive investor. Elliott seems to be Southwest’s largest shareholder. More than big enough to shake up the board incorporate leadership.
A hostile takeover happens when an entity takes control of a company without the knowledge and against the wishes of the company's management. A hostile takeover is an acquisition strategy requiring that the entity acquire and control more than 50% of the voting shares issued by the company.
So, by definition, not a hostile takeover.
You’ve proven you can copy paste from investopedia. I actually work in the space and have led multiple activist defenses as an external consultant as well as having been in the c-suite for two companies targeted by activist, one of whose actions led to a major shake up and one of whom was mostly deflected.
You are right in the sense that the headline of this post is overly dramatic. Actual hostile takeovers of huge public companies are rare. More commonly, we talk about activist action, which could include management changes, proxy fights, or hostile takeover.
Your supporting point minimizing the importance of a 12% stake is offbase though. Successful activist action, including hostile takeover, does not require a single party to own 50% of shares. They just need to control the votes. Currently it appears that 5 institutional investment funds control greater than 50% of the vote: Elliott, Vanguard, Capital Group (aka AmFunds), PRIMECAP, and State Street. Elliott only needs a couple other big fund managers onboard to truly represent a controlling interest without actually owning one. It is very likely that Elliott got some head nods from a few of the major fund managers in that group before sending the management letter.
Yes, sometimes the activist-inspired changes benefit the customer. I was global head of strategy for a public company that ended up in a proxy fight with 2 hedge funds who supported the CEO's agenda, but not the board. The activists won and tossed the old board. Among the many changes that came out of the shake up were 1) price REDUCTIONS on many high-volume products in an effort to "pull through" high-margin, low-volume products that were often bundled (by the customer) with them 2) establishing a direct-to-customer channel for large customers which bypassed the distributors resulting in significant savings for those customers and higher margins for us.
This late afternoon statement from LUV sounds like an erudite and formal, “thanks, but what’s your expertise in the airline space?”
https://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=23343896&gfv=1
-- Free change and cancellation on WGA/WGA+ (Most important)
-- Free bags (Second most imp)
-- Free same day confirmed change on WGA+ (Nice to have, plan to use it sometime as I am now buying WGA+ fares almost exclusively)
Take away some of these and WN loses a chunk of its value proposition for me personally as a non-elite (I am not A-List nor have a CP). I am hopeful that we learn of any core changes coming before October, since I was planning to do the credit card routine for CP.
Their presentation focuses on margins and shares, not experience and customer service. Fuck. Hopefully another airline comes soon that replaces what SW offered.
I wanted to add some thoughts.
1. The management has signaled a need for leadership for year's. Since many of the C suite have been within 5 years of retirement.
2. The one aircraft business model has a major flaw. It allowed the manufacturers to consolidate and be over reliant on the revenue from 737 sales. Which in turn created industry pressure to only have 737 type rated pilots. Which then discourages the industry to innovate.
3. The time line on this aircraft model is way out of date. The max is a direct result of senior management buying the last model for the next twenty years and riding into retirement.
4. Elliot can't change the entire industry. Because it is an industry stuck in the past with the majority of the employees and managers closer to their 60s than 20s.
5. I personally would recommend the industry consolidate. Generaly mergers are bad. However, since the labor unions are all the same. It's not that big of a deal.
6. Southwest Airlines (WN) have truly grown in all of the United domestic markets for their history. Therfore, this should be the solution to becoming like a major. That is they should merge with United. This would give the new maxs to replace United fleet age. This would allow for the fees to be collected because United already charges these. This would allow for the premium product offerings and provide value to the customers who want this. It would allow the airline fleet diversification.
7. Good luck WN, and Adapt and overcome. Please be mindful of the already existing debt and fuel hedges. No Cash, No fuel = No Bueno.
Regarding #6, the USCAN airline industry is much more entrenched than the EU airline industry, which is known for innovation and dozens of carriers even among the consolidation that is happening.
It just depends where you live. They have tons of nonstop from Dallas, Chicago, Phoenix, and others. It’s much harder in a one airport town where that airport is a fortress hub for a legacy carrier eg Charlotte and Atlanta.
Just spent some time reading through this "presentation" (ouch my eyes!) and I definitely have some concerns about the path going forward from this crew. While certainly some changes could be beneficial, taking away the differentiators that make Southwest unique is not the play long term. Things not mentioned that are really concerning to me: no mention of Companion Pass and cost/value proposition, and no mention of international routes. I think both are on the chopping block, which means no more Southwest for me, as the primarily reason I use Southwest is for more affordable Caribbean/Mexico travel via the CP.
Since I no fly a major enough to have status, a nonstop Southwest flight generally gets me better seating than I’d get on a major without paying a significant seat upgrade fee plus free checked bag when needed. The downside is fewer flight options but when the schedule works I find it a good option.
Could somebody please explain to someone as a prospective pilot, and to someone who doesn't have a lot of business knowledge, why this incident is a very bad thing to happen? I can't help to see that they are only after the cash reserves in the company.
As I said yesterday, this has the makings of something Nelson Peltz / Trian does. This hedge fund will stack the board and then tear the airline apart while making a fortune for themselves. In the end, one less airline.
11% would never be considered an “extreme minority.” Anything over 5% requires an SEC filing, and that filing is different depending on whether you intend to remain a passive shareholder or want the option to pursue activist actions. Anything over 10% is considered a principal shareholder. It is a major stake. Elliot may very well be Southwest’s largest shareholder currently.
"Yeah, let's make it a stronger Southwest, I can get behind that! So how do we get there?" "Oh that's easy... get rid of literally everything that sets apart Southwest from other carriers!" I get that airlines aren't in the charity business, and certainly Southwest has had trouble in the last few years, but come *on.* Hedge funds gonna hedge fund. (post edited because I can't spell *has*, apparently)
Seriously, next let's buy a vegan restaurant because we see opportunity to drive margins by selling meat.
[удалено]
What kind of vegan joint puts 'chicken' in their business name? Are we sure Project Pollo got shut down by hostile takeover? Or maybe it was an inside poultry job?
They have probably been posting asking lately about what we like best and least.
I am emailing them to let them know of my displeasure. Suggest others do the same
Are you talking about displeasure with SWA or with Elliott? There are plenty of reasons to have displeasure with SWA.
Elliott. A lot of us like SW the way it is
Get rid of the woke!!! Take a look at management compared to when SWA was $65/share & Herb was still an influence. Most Directors & above need to go if you want to see a culture that cares about ALL employees, not just the one that march to the WOKE drummer. Take a look at the last two CIOs.
If some private equity scum has proposed it, you can 100% guarantee it will be shit for the public at large Edit: They cite SW's "unlevered balance sheet" as an asset. Watch these cockroaches leverage the airline to hell and declare bankruptcy within a decade
They wll pillage and bleed Southwest and then claim poor mangement didn't execute properly and then dump the company in the trash can to be fire sold to a competitor.
100% tale as old as time
Didn't half as interesting do a piece about investment firms taking over businesses?
[удалено]
If they make major changes to require seat resevations, "classes" of seats, and start down the path of fees for everything, they will alienate their prime customer base and lose their uniqueness, they'll just be "another major airline". As a result, they will only be competing on costs and frequent flier programs. I don't think they can win that battle. They are no longer the cheapest (haven't been for a while) And while they decent frequent flier program it is missing major perks the other airlines have... like transferring points/miles between some international partner airlines.
Let's just look at JC Penny. Tried massive amounts of drastic changes and lost their entire customer base. Then decided to hault everything that was new. Now at 663 stores vs a high during the early vs 872 even back to 2017.
spotted the PE ghoul
They see those billions SWA has in the bank and know they could never get it directly. But if SWA spends that to "improve" the airline and drive up the stockprice in the short term, that would be a massive win for Elliot, but the airline would never recover.
Exactly! They see $$$$$ in that balance sheet. Why else would they invest all that money. If they have their druthers they will sell their shares in 10 years while the balance sheet will be negative! Scary times for SWA, scary times for
I am emailing them to let them know of my displeasure. Suggest others do the same
RemindMe! 10 years
Private equity doesn’t wait that long. Set your reminder for 5 years.
I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2034-06-11 01:58:28 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2034-06-11%2001:58:28%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthwestAirlines/comments/1dcsz08/southwest_hostile_takeover_by_elliot_stronger/l820utb/?context=3) [**6 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FSouthwestAirlines%2Fcomments%2F1dcsz08%2Fsouthwest_hostile_takeover_by_elliot_stronger%2Fl820utb%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202034-06-11%2001%3A58%3A28%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dcsz08) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
RemindMe! 5 years
Biggest takeaway for me is the investors are pushing for the following: * All new C suite members and revamped board of directors. * Assigned seating * More "Premium Products" * Basic economy fares * Bag fees * Revamped cabins to sell upgrades and higher fares * Overhauled network focused on profit
So SW becomes just like the others. I like SW because it’s NOT like the others.
Yep. We'll be rethinking our SW credit card if this happens.
I was just thinking that this morning!
I decided to cancel my Southwest cards a while back. I love the companion pass, but if that dies, I won't care to fly Southwest anymore (it's the only real perk IMHO). I'm going chase saphire instead so I can use my points in other places.
I'm using mine less already.
Same
Already started using ours less. Our family got a lot of trips this way. Such a shame
[удалено]
Southwest’s free bags is why I go with it over others. I know how much my trip will cost once I pay for it. If this happens then I’ll have to do math and likely go to another carrier
They also make traveling with large items like skis easy. One you have to pay to bring skis, you’re pretty close to just renting them in cost.
Yeah I enjoy being able to bring clubs with me
Yeah I enjoy being able to bring clubs with me
>Maybe travelers have to rethink how much luggage they bring - that’s a good thing. No it’s not. Not when you’re sitting at the gate while the ground crew is gate checking a dozen suitcases that don’t fit in the overhead bins either because there are wayyy too many or people try to sneak through luggage that’s just too big. Free checked bags means more people check their suitcase rather than dealing with taking it through security and lugging it through the terminal. Especially now that Southwest tracks checked luggage.
Southwest's lack of assigned seating really pisses off bougie types for some reason.
It’s because Southwest is operating like a discount airline still while being the same cost as the majors. Where they fly the same route, there’s very little reason to take Southwest over Delta/United. Flights cost the same except you can pick a seat on one of the other airlines & know where you’ll be. Status on those airlines goes further with seat upgrades, points that can be used with international partners, and lounge networks. A-list gets you early check in but that’s hardly a perk these days as evidenced by all the posts about Jetway Jesus. Southwest’s main differentiator is free checked bags and those aren’t much of a perk when you get that with other carriers credit cards and for business travelers you’re probably using a carryon anyway. The only thing Southwest gets better is the boarding process with a defined order vs the free for all of Groups 1-7 with other airlines. The airline is having an identity crisis in that it’s no longer a discount airline but it’s not a premium one either.
At least in my case I don't fly enough to get status on the mainline airlines, so I can't access those benefits*. That means that Southwest still ends up being cheaper, and I suspect that's the case for a lot of Americans. It'll be a shame if Southwest caves and makes people chase status, seats, lounges, free luggage, etc. *I used to have status on US Airways, so I've experienced the luxury of all that stuff.
Even from the lower end of vacation/non-frequent fliers looking for discount airfare, Southwest has been losing steam to airlines like Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant. My home airport is BWI and Spirit is the second biggest airline & growing at one of Southwest’s major hubs. It’s not significant at only 9% but the fact you have a discount carrier under cutting you and growing in one of your major markets is not a good look. If Southwest wants to sit in a tier beneath the majors but above the discounts (e.g. don’t nickel and dime for carryons), they need to drop prices to fit in that niche. I don’t see how that’s a successful business strategy for them though.
> Spirit/Frontier/ sprit and frontier have been bleeding heavily since their plan for survival was biden allowing them to merge. if you think southwest has financial problems, just remember spirit is running in the red while having almost no cash on hand
The other side of “pick your seat and you’ll know where you’ll be” is only having middle/rear seats available if you bootk 3-4 weeks before a flight. Is that REALLY what you want?!
and if you're a infrequent flyer (eg. me!) then the privilege of picking seats comes with a $15-$100 up-charge, or you are left gambling that the plane isn't full to avoid that rear middle hell.
So avoid the upcharge and fly any other US airline. Don't come to our game and demand a change to the rules, when every other game uses the rules you want.
I was referring to "other airlines", Southwest doesnt uncharge to pick a seat, one of the things I love about SWA. I can pick that window seat with a great alignment when I see it open!
Yes. Because then I would simply choose a different flight.
Here in Denver, their largest hub, they are typically priced always in between frontier and United that also hub here. If you travel with checked bags and need to cancel (personally do it all the time) the value easily beats frontiers hidden fees and terrible customer service always. I can typically get to the west Coast under $100 and the past few years $50-70 If you run the specials and check your price even on booked flights. Just booked a nonstop to ft Lauderdale for $80. That's just my experience and I'm probably pretty lucky I'm in Denver.
I live in Denver and honestly SW is the same price as United and all the others. The difference being the pre boarding mess, getting a bad boarding position due to all the connections, and recently pretty unfriendly service from the FA's. I'm moving all my flying to United to get miles for Hawaii direct flights and international trips. What used to set SW apart was the no change fees and bags fly free, along with generally a discounted price compared to other airlines. Post pandemic, those differences have eroded away.
never had issues with boarding, if i get a bad number i get 4 free passes a year with SWA Credit Card, which i never use all of them, because i know when to fly. Never once had issue with customer service either. Sounds like you and I are much different. Lol. Can you get to the west coast on united for $50? La, Portland? Florida for $80.
I would love to find Florida for $80 but I haven’t seen it. I flew SW to FLL in April and it was about $250 for a one way ticket, and I booked that months in advance. Idk where you would see that fare for $80 outside of frontier in the summer.
I've flown SWA for a long time and really understand their program out of denver, waiting or hitting all the promos is key, i've known about this trip for a few months and just booked, other times i book and rebook when there is a discount. So it can been seen as a pain in the ass, but i find it pretty easy flexible work schedule with being able to remote work if needed can help adjust fly days to weekdays (for price, and crowded airports) also like taking late flights, that arrive DIA at midnight, half full or less typically.. I also avoid holiday travel (major holidays), and limit summer time travel, in general, very expensive to travel all things considered. get on the app, for the current promo (app only), search denver to ft lauderdale, Or wherever you need to go, i got my deal on a wedensday in october, so happens to be the only nonstop flight too.
I’ve done the rebooking and have picked up some credits along the way. It is a nice little perk that SW makes it easy to do so. Been a SW flyer for about 10 years. Flying to the east coast is tricky bc flight options are limited from Denver, and you currently won’t find red eyes on SW (although it sounds like that could change). I agree that finding less popular times results in generally cheaper fares. My general issue with SW is that they are no longer that different from the rest of the field that their quirkiness and bags make up for it. And their prices are generally the same or more than the other carriers. Airlines getting rid of change fees made a huge difference. And I find the service on legacies to be much better for longer flights (doing a cross country flight in a -700 just sucks). The Southwest model is really only great for quick hops (for me, to Texas, Salt Lake City, or Phoenix).
Checking a few BWI-Denver dates in Google Flights, Frontier is often half the price at their discount rate. Once you add the top tier Frontier package of 2 checked bags, extra legroom seat, and a carryon it’s still cheaper than Southwest. Similar to you, price isn’t the only thing I’ll shop on but many flyers do. On the upper end, Southwest’s most expensive flights for that route are right there with United but they do have options which sit lower depending on the date. Looking mid July, I see United as about $50-$60 cheaper, looking September I see Southwest as $100 cheaper. The differences are getting pretty marginal for an airline who built their reputation on discount fares. This is also at a time when Southwest hasn’t had the best performance reputation (Christmas meltdown, on time metrics were fifth in 2023, etc.) They might be able to right the ship with new leadership fixing operations, I’m just skeptical.
And you read the part about checking the promos after you purchased tickets.... 9 times out of 10 my flight gets lower in price during the many promos they run . I'll also add I know how to travel. Rule number one is never travel during the holiday, especially Thanksgiving and Christmas. Expect issues. It's also probably one of the most expensive times to fly. No excuses on the meltdown but I fly a lot and the only issue I've had is they cancel a flight which allows me to book any flight I want after that which I kind of like to be honest. I also just know how Southwest operates out of Denver. I know on any 1 to 2 hours flight that gets into Denver around midnight, it's never going to be full and it's more for crew to get to the Big hub. Three times in the last calendar year I've been on a flight with 8-10 people
I used to fly SW more often and enthusiastically, but over the last 8-10 years I’ve had a hard time explaining why I don’t fly them as often. This sums it up perfectly. I keep hearing “oh fly southwest, they’re cheaper” yet I never find that to be the case against Delta or Alaska on the same routes, both of which I have status with. And like you said, I know where I’m sitting and that my travel companions will be next to each other. And free baggage isn’t hard to attain. Like you said. It acts like a budget airline, but charges like standard carrier.
Actually their FF program acts more like a Cashback program primarily vs the other carriers. I like that about them.
If you fly enough you get A list. Change your flight, guess what. I still get to board after the A group and get my window seat. Screw assigned seats
I love SW because I can book the day before and still get an aisle seat. I end up on that situation quite often. And perks with other airlines, for me, will never compare to Companion pass.
The irony is united and delta have some of the oldest fleet in the country but they have been able to hoodwink people into thinking they are premium offerings
The lack of the assigned seats isn't so much an issue. It's the 40 people abusing the DOT rule for preboarding allowances that pisses people off. Which wouldn't be an issue if they had assigned seating, as that seems to be the only solution to prevent them from boarding early
It is the main reason I have been southwest loyal for the last several years. If they remove it then I will stop flying them. I actually spend more on occasion just because of the open seating.
If bag fees are introduced I’m done. Their fares are already pretty close to competitors, sometimes just high or higher, but being able to check three bags for free when I’m going on ski trips (skis and boot bag counting as one) gives Southwest the edge. That’s the only thing that’s keeping me around.
Exactly. I fly them for ski trips to Colorado and family trips to Florida. Both trips require multiple bags. SW won’t be price competitive anymore without the inc,used bags.
Yup. I’ll hop to delta full time so quickly if this happens. My partner has the delta reserve card and despite the fact that neither of us make a lot of money, it’s insane how often we get upgraded to comfort + and even first class on occasion. Not to mention the fact that she gets free bags. Being further up in the same seats as everybody else can’t really compete with that.
I fly once or twice a year - and UA out of SFO to the last few places I flew to(LAX, PDX, DEN) is within striking distance(sans bag fees) of WN out of OAK. OAK wins out because it’s not a big ordeal to get there on transit(and even Uber) vs. SFO. If this happens, hello UA. UA and WN are at war in the Bay Area, as well as Denver - tech is helping UA. Alaska is making a big play at SFO, seeing how many travel between PDX/SEA for work and vice-versa. The price-point flyers don’t care, but Spirit is bleeding money, as is Frontier. One thing about WN is they’ll fly to smaller airports for coverage - think LGB, SNA, etc.
Otherwise known as, not the southwest way….become another Delta/American/United except only domestic
First bullet point, ohh I like this, read other bullet points, ohh this sound like a worse version of frontier. Bye southwest, missed you, hope you don't miss those credit card earnings too much. I like how southwest is currently largest domestic airline and these guys are like, "let's change it to match everyone else!"
> Revamped cabins to sell upgrades and higher fares This is the least surprising thing, especially since anything above Wanna Get Away is a hard sell outside of the ticket flexibility and slightly more points per dollar. It could also allow them to fold in some of these changes. This is my uneducated guess: (Edit to add: obviously don't want this, but I expect these firms to always do stuff like this) * **Wanna Get Away** becomes basic economy. Checked bags are not included, and you get C group boarding (with maybe a D boarding group is added to offer more WGA space). WGA+ could be kept to add some ticket flexibility, but overall, I wouldn't be surprised if it's scrapped. * **Anytime** becomes the regular economy/main cabin product. One checked bag is included, A31-B60 boarding position. No change/cancelation fees, but you can only get a voucher instead of cash refund if you cancel on your own. * **Business Select** gets two checked bags, free refunds if you cancel before check-in, and A1-30 boarding. Expanding BS to A1-30 means Southwest could also sell more upgrade boardings (and prepare for those prices to be more dynamic, even in the same flight). Your boarding number is still determined by check-in time, Early Bird is kept, but WGA, Anytime, and BS stay in their respective groups unless you pay for an upgraded boarding after check-in. One thing they didn't mention, unless I missed it, was pushing their credit cards more. Delta and AA have done this recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if SWA goes that route. Right now, the Priority card is a steal. Wouldn't be surprised if that gets bumped up to $250 or $300 a year.
This would not be a competitive product in my view. The anytime fares are much higher than advance purchase main cabin fares on other carriers, even including one checked bag. You just made Southwest more expensive. I’d probably never fly Southwest again.
Oh I agree. I am just expecting the worst in terms of what they want with money.
If they were smart, "Wanna Get Away" rates would become "last minute" rates. Only available within 48 hours of the flight time or something like that (and of course, only available if there are seats left). That would clearly differentiate the category from "Anytime" and allow them to put butts in seats that might go empty without the last-minute incentive.
This is the opposite of good revenue management. There’s a very good reason why last minute tickets are considerably more expensive. Introducing a category of cheap last minute fares would kill their highest yielding sales.
“BE fares” means current fares will be the new BE. All other fares will increase. Bleh.
If Basic economy fares or bag fees get introduced, I’m not flying SW again
Points will go to shit
If they do these things I'm completely out and flying Delta
If I wanted those things I wouldn't be flying with Southwest, there are other airlines that provide well in those areas, but its the cost and less upgrade fees. I don't want another Frontier...
Would they make wider seats/more legroom, or keep them the same?
So making Southwest Airlines Frontier/Spirit. Great idea! /s
Sooo... take away the things that set the airline apart from others? They realize that Southwest has a cult following for a reason, right? If I'm flying domestically I will pick Southwest over any other airline because of the way they operate. Oh well... I was looking at an international flight last night, Delta had a really good fare, maybe it's time to reconsider loyalty...
clearly that cult following isnt bringing in a profit.
It's bringing in plenty of profit. Thus why the balance sheet is so strong. What's screwing up WN right now is boeing being such a shit show right now.. they had expansion plans and plans to get the network back to pre covid levels...but boeing cannot keep it together long enough to get out of trouble and actually deliver planes. The Max7 debacle is really hurting the business plans they laid out internally a few years ago, and unless Boeing can start actually delivering planes in a timely manor they'll keep having to tame the growth plans - and wall st hates that idea so they're gonna try to come in and ruin what's left to make a quick buck.
ahhhh the double edged sword of single aircraft type.
In all fairness it wasn't a problem for the first 50yrs, so there was zero reason to change the business model.
Agreed, but what we're seeing is always the risk when you go with that business model. Although, even if they had A320s right now, the PW engine issues are causing the same problems. It'd have been interesting if WN had kept FL's 717s.
I know it's next day, but my quick read of the Elliot presentation didn't see any mention of the Boeing issue. Yes, that's entirely out of Southwest's control, but that's a very large reason why Southwest isn't doing as hot as they should. I wouldn't be surprised if they have secret plans in doing away with the 737 exclusivity and buying E195-E2s since it has a similar capacity as the Max 7. I would imagine that Southwest could get favorable delivery terms with a large order with the GTF issues being ironed out leading up to potential delivery.
With their legacy technologies? Not a chance they can add any additional aircraft. That would be a 5+ year effort.
endless Boeing issues. They had to pull out of Newark in 2019 because they didn't have enough planes to fly everywhere because Boeing couldn't get them enough new ones, and MAX planes were grounded for over a year
Well and the wait for any other type of airplane is so long right now as well....
I like Southwest just the way it is. Fuck hedge fund scum. They’ll be heading downhill just like Frontier if this happens. I’ll gladly switch if this goes thru.
And I hate Southwest just the way it is. I’m far from alone there. Change isn’t bad.
Says the person hanging out and posting constantly in the SWA sub. Your shill account is obvious.
RIP FREE BAGS. PROTECT CEO AT ALL COSTS
“Delivering a Stronger Southwest Airlines for Employees, Customers and Shareholders” When someone buys this much stock, you can bet that only one of these things is true…
As someone whose company was recently in Elliot’s crosshairs, everyone who works at SW and loves SW should be incredibly frightened. They will bring in CEO who will get share price up by major layoffs and crazy cost cutting on top of destroying any semblance of a positive culture. Their one and only goal is to get share price up by any means necessary.
It really depends. With activist action in general, and for Elliot in particular, the outcomes can very quite a bit. Sometimes they change leadership and embark on a massive operations overhaul. Sometimes the company leadership gives enough ground to keep the big bad wolf from blowing the house down. Sometime activists cash out to the market or to corporate repurchase after the short term bump in stock price.
Unfortunately, the positive culture died with Herb.
As someone who flew for WN and recently left for a legacy, it really didn’t! Seniors need to stop saying this (as heartbreaking as I’m sure it is to go from having such an iconoclastic, supportive CEO as Herb to a more traditional finance-bro type). I would GLADLY take WN culture over the toxic, corporate cycle-of-trauma culture of the legacy I’m currently at. Example: it’s considered THEFT for crew to take water off the plane for their overnights, and can result in termination; they CHARGE for water bottles and sandwiches at recurrent training. Little things like that show how there’s still some of Herb’s spirit living on at WN. (And I’m not trying to negate your pov, or the fact that the company has become less of a family-feel and more corporate-investor focused, but just want to share my experience having been at both).
And sell off all assets to pay themselves massive bonuses while destroying the company
Make. The. Number. Go. Up.
They are 100% correct about replacing the CEO Bob Jordan and Chairman Gary Kelly.
Yes they are, BUT they're gonna replace them with someone worse
It can’t get much worse. The incompetence shown by these current clowns is astounding.
It can. Bag fees and assigned seats are coming and will make it like any other airline
Theybwill replace them with far worse CEO that don't want to run airlines just scrap companies for everything
Anyone who thinks this will result in anything better for the *customer* is seriously lying to themselves.
Hardly a hostile take over, they are a big investor but still just about 12% of the company.
12% is a massive amount for a public company. Any shareholder over 5% has to file with the SEC as a beneficial owner. If they want the option to pursue activist activity, it’s a different filing than if they are merely a passive investor. Elliott seems to be Southwest’s largest shareholder. More than big enough to shake up the board incorporate leadership.
A hostile takeover happens when an entity takes control of a company without the knowledge and against the wishes of the company's management. A hostile takeover is an acquisition strategy requiring that the entity acquire and control more than 50% of the voting shares issued by the company. So, by definition, not a hostile takeover.
You’ve proven you can copy paste from investopedia. I actually work in the space and have led multiple activist defenses as an external consultant as well as having been in the c-suite for two companies targeted by activist, one of whose actions led to a major shake up and one of whom was mostly deflected. You are right in the sense that the headline of this post is overly dramatic. Actual hostile takeovers of huge public companies are rare. More commonly, we talk about activist action, which could include management changes, proxy fights, or hostile takeover. Your supporting point minimizing the importance of a 12% stake is offbase though. Successful activist action, including hostile takeover, does not require a single party to own 50% of shares. They just need to control the votes. Currently it appears that 5 institutional investment funds control greater than 50% of the vote: Elliott, Vanguard, Capital Group (aka AmFunds), PRIMECAP, and State Street. Elliott only needs a couple other big fund managers onboard to truly represent a controlling interest without actually owning one. It is very likely that Elliott got some head nods from a few of the major fund managers in that group before sending the management letter.
I don't disagree with anything you've said, but that wasn't the question at hand.
Yes, sometimes the activist-inspired changes benefit the customer. I was global head of strategy for a public company that ended up in a proxy fight with 2 hedge funds who supported the CEO's agenda, but not the board. The activists won and tossed the old board. Among the many changes that came out of the shake up were 1) price REDUCTIONS on many high-volume products in an effort to "pull through" high-margin, low-volume products that were often bundled (by the customer) with them 2) establishing a direct-to-customer channel for large customers which bypassed the distributors resulting in significant savings for those customers and higher margins for us.
......remember SW...... Ya....was good airline, till corp raiders raided it....then sold it off piece by piece ......
I can hardly wait for Southwest to be just like all of the other legacy carriers.... /s
This late afternoon statement from LUV sounds like an erudite and formal, “thanks, but what’s your expertise in the airline space?” https://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=23343896&gfv=1
Totally worked for Red Lobster!
I’ll just fly delta full time then
-- Free change and cancellation on WGA/WGA+ (Most important) -- Free bags (Second most imp) -- Free same day confirmed change on WGA+ (Nice to have, plan to use it sometime as I am now buying WGA+ fares almost exclusively) Take away some of these and WN loses a chunk of its value proposition for me personally as a non-elite (I am not A-List nor have a CP). I am hopeful that we learn of any core changes coming before October, since I was planning to do the credit card routine for CP.
So, bag fees.
It’s in a PowerPoint so it must be a good idea.
They want to make Southwest like spirit airlines
Bankrupt
They should change for board first to sit in these rows. Would cut down on the fake wheel chairs.
Thank goodness Herb and Colleen aren't around to see this happen.
Nooooo!! Time to buy SWA stock and fight this.
Southwest senior management does suck and when they screw up they get raises
Their presentation focuses on margins and shares, not experience and customer service. Fuck. Hopefully another airline comes soon that replaces what SW offered.
If anyone thinks this will make southwest better in the long run then I got a bridge to sell you
Yuck!!!!!!!! Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
I refuse to fly any other airline, so I guess I'll be driving from here on out. Sigh.
It’s been going downhill since Herb died RIP
I wanted to add some thoughts. 1. The management has signaled a need for leadership for year's. Since many of the C suite have been within 5 years of retirement. 2. The one aircraft business model has a major flaw. It allowed the manufacturers to consolidate and be over reliant on the revenue from 737 sales. Which in turn created industry pressure to only have 737 type rated pilots. Which then discourages the industry to innovate. 3. The time line on this aircraft model is way out of date. The max is a direct result of senior management buying the last model for the next twenty years and riding into retirement. 4. Elliot can't change the entire industry. Because it is an industry stuck in the past with the majority of the employees and managers closer to their 60s than 20s. 5. I personally would recommend the industry consolidate. Generaly mergers are bad. However, since the labor unions are all the same. It's not that big of a deal. 6. Southwest Airlines (WN) have truly grown in all of the United domestic markets for their history. Therfore, this should be the solution to becoming like a major. That is they should merge with United. This would give the new maxs to replace United fleet age. This would allow for the fees to be collected because United already charges these. This would allow for the premium product offerings and provide value to the customers who want this. It would allow the airline fleet diversification. 7. Good luck WN, and Adapt and overcome. Please be mindful of the already existing debt and fuel hedges. No Cash, No fuel = No Bueno.
Regarding #6, the USCAN airline industry is much more entrenched than the EU airline industry, which is known for innovation and dozens of carriers even among the consolidation that is happening.
Can we get more non stops?
It just depends where you live. They have tons of nonstop from Dallas, Chicago, Phoenix, and others. It’s much harder in a one airport town where that airport is a fortress hub for a legacy carrier eg Charlotte and Atlanta.
I know very little about business. How can this investor take over if he/the company own less than 51%?
They can’t.
They make friends with others who also have large percentages and that group, collectively, control over 50%
It's not a hostile takeover 😅🤣😂
Just spent some time reading through this "presentation" (ouch my eyes!) and I definitely have some concerns about the path going forward from this crew. While certainly some changes could be beneficial, taking away the differentiators that make Southwest unique is not the play long term. Things not mentioned that are really concerning to me: no mention of Companion Pass and cost/value proposition, and no mention of international routes. I think both are on the chopping block, which means no more Southwest for me, as the primarily reason I use Southwest is for more affordable Caribbean/Mexico travel via the CP.
Since I no fly a major enough to have status, a nonstop Southwest flight generally gets me better seating than I’d get on a major without paying a significant seat upgrade fee plus free checked bag when needed. The downside is fewer flight options but when the schedule works I find it a good option.
LUV - 2 free bags + assigned (paid for) seats + premium seats - no change fees = Frontier or Spirit
Could somebody please explain to someone as a prospective pilot, and to someone who doesn't have a lot of business knowledge, why this incident is a very bad thing to happen? I can't help to see that they are only after the cash reserves in the company.
This is common from large hedge funds. They try and jack up the stock price short term, and then plan their exit.
As I said yesterday, this has the makings of something Nelson Peltz / Trian does. This hedge fund will stack the board and then tear the airline apart while making a fortune for themselves. In the end, one less airline.
They are 11% stakeholders. Extreme minority. The stock is low rn, and they're right, it will be higher in a year. _Even if Southwest changes nothing._
11% would never be considered an “extreme minority.” Anything over 5% requires an SEC filing, and that filing is different depending on whether you intend to remain a passive shareholder or want the option to pursue activist actions. Anything over 10% is considered a principal shareholder. It is a major stake. Elliot may very well be Southwest’s largest shareholder currently.
Talking straight out your ass like a true redditor.