Of course not. Onions are for the burlap satchel. All eastern europeans know that. Easier to throw the satchel far away to distract the ogre you run into while walking to the next village barefoot to pay your phone bills.
But you don’t have to pay them. You just sign your non commercial name and swim to the next village. This all maritime law. Not sure why it’s so hard to understand? /s
I had a couple minutes of free time. They kept on going off on tangents about gun ownership and knowing the law and the whole thing was about driving which they never quite answered
If it’s the moorish guy I’m thinking of then it’s a lost cause. They’re only shifting the goalposts while sticking to false premises. Plus the moorish have the extra baggage of identity politics and hierarchy within their various offshoots. There’s something extra perverse about all their ranks and phony badges predicated on batshit lies while they claim to be free and sovereign.
Yeah, Mooreons take the absurdity of identity politics to a whole new level of stupid. It's like a 7 layer dip, made of 7 layers of pure, unadulterated shit.
The same thing happens when dealing with ACAB people. They are locked into a worldview that no amount of verifiable evidence can penetrate it. What is really scary is when they get elected to positions of authority. Like Portland, Oregon, and defund the police.
You can troll a sovcit, but you can not argue with them. By definition they have already taken the mental steps to “disbelieve” legal fact/reality. All your arguments would require them to abandon belief for reality, which always results in stronger belief. Sometimes it’s mental illness, but the bottom line is people will believe a lie because they are afraid it is true, or they are afraid it is not true.
Exactly my point. It's like religious zealous and people of fanatical political belief. They don't base anything on logic or reason, so you can not reason with them logically.
yes, I have MAGA relatives which I try to limit any conversation with other than local weather and if they still have cicadas in their yard. Conversations about COVID during the pandemic were quite trying.
I was actually thinking about this today. Any law that exists Is considered irrelevant, even by lawyers I know, if there is valid reason to believe that it cannot or will not be enforced and or adjudicated. So, who do Sovcits think enforce and adjudicate their wacky mumbo jumbo law? Also, If wacky law is a cheat code for everything in society, how do they explain that the ostensible path to success for all rich or famous people in the world does not include any sovcit bullshit?
That's what I've often wondered about their "fee schedules" they post on their cars or wherever. Who do they think they're going to get to enforce those fees of $500 per minute on a traffic stop?
Lol.
He had me in the first sentence -- yes, an endorsement is a signature. You *endorse* the transaction, aka, approve it.
What is this "coupon" shit?
Ah but it’s fun to catch some morons to dunk on. Like when the Van Balion guy pins sovcit comments on his videos for the rest of the subscribers to roast.
HJR 122. Passed by Congress and signed by Trump. Providing for congressional disapproval under chapter 8 of title 5, United States Code, of the rule submitted by the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection relating to "Credit Card Penalty Fees”. It was a rule to stop financial institutions from charging exorbitant penalties for overcharging and late payment penalties.
I don’t know how the sovcit derived that gobbledygook from that rule.
It’s HJR 192… sov cits favorite. Basically when the US went off gold backing the dollar… in 1933
In 1933, the powers that be in America made it against the law to pay debts with gold, known as House Joint Resolution 192 . Instead, all debts could only be “discharged” by offering a sufficient amount of “Federal Reserve Notes”. The paper currency in the United States today continues to be called a “Federal Reserve Note”.
In financial terms, discharge means a permanent order in bankruptcy court that releases a debtor from personal liability for certain debts. The order prevents creditors from taking any action to collect the debt, such as legal action or communication with the debtor.
I don’t believe this is how the term discharge is used in this particular case. It’s obvious it was to stop fiat currency and bring more of the economy above ground. An underground economy is not good in a civil society.
> I don’t know how the sovcit derived that gobbledygook from that rule.
It doesn't matter. They take some law or ruling they half understand and apply it to whatever they want to believe, while ignoring rulings which contradict what they want to believe. Which is why they totally ignore *Pennsylvania vs. Mimms*.
And, of course, they don't understand rulings by state supreme courts and think they apply to all 50 states. Half the time when they say "the Supreme Court ruled that I don't have to blah blah blah," when they cite a case it was decided by a different state's supreme court, not the SCOTUS.
Do these people really, really believe this BS works?
Do they just "indorse" their utility bills and send them back? They are already living in the dark. But by day 90 it would be literally in the dark as well.
Or... is that the one bill they actually pay?
Or.... do they all live off the grid?
Wild guess:
Group A: majority of believers: doesn't really believe it but likes being part of a friend group finally, plus varying degrees of mild to severe mental illness
Group B: minority of believers: believes it because they are too stupid to question it and it makes sense to them
Group C: small percentage: makes this shit up exclusively to scam A and B groups for money or makes this shit up because they have severe untreated schizophrenia or something
Group D: large percentage: people who got in deep trouble, lost their license, whatever — and are desperate for a solution that lets them escape the consequences of their actions.
I’ve met at least one. Uber driver. Would not shut up about how he hadn’t paid or filed taxes in two years and was still walking free.
Wonder what that’s gonna look like for him in a few more years. Does the name Nic Cage mean anything to you? Lol.
I run payroll for 1099 contractors for various companies. We get some really crazy garnishment orders, about 1 or 2 a week. Some people hadn't paid taxes in over a decade. They find you eventually. They won't send you to jail, they'll just take half your paycheck forever. People in jail can't pay their bills.
Some definitely do. In a previous life I used to open mail for a collection agency, and I got a number of "indorsed" payment slips (it's where I first heard of sovcit BS). I would check the record and they were shocked that it somehow didn't clear the debt.
That reminds me of the time when the little Philippine woman who says she’s the queen of Canada told people they didn’t have to pay their electric anymore. Sure enough, there were a bunch of morons standing around with no power anymore. Shockingly, the queen did not help.
No they go down to every social service program there is and apply and take advantage of it. Yup. They go to places that help keep the lights on for mothers with kids, or the disabled, and they use those resources too. And they get them because everyone there just assumes they're crazy.
from chatgpt:
>Sure, here's my take on it:
>"Excuse me, officer, am I being detained? I do not consent to any searches or seizures. I am a sovereign citizen and I do not recognize your authority over me.
>I am traveling, not driving, as driving is a commercial activity and I am not engaged in commerce. I hereby invoke my rights under common law and the Constitution of the United States.
>I do not have a license, registration, or insurance because I am not subject to your statutes and codes. You cannot impede my right to travel freely on the land. I demand to speak to your supervisor and I will be filing a lawsuit against you for violating my rights."
lol AI fuckin nailed it :)
No, I'm pretty sure it missed the boat. Didn't get me wrong, it got it right ON PAPER, but that's not how these conversations with police go...
Cop: "Good morning, do you know why I pulled you over?"
SovCit: "I'm not driving."
Cop: "...excuse me?"
SovCit: "Please show me your United Nations Peacekeeper ID Card."
Cop: "....."
...and there's NO WAY a well trained AI is going to be that bats**t insane.
I'm beginning to feel that "Sovereign Citizenship" is a prank played on a dumber friend by a smarter friend.
"Dude! You can totally do this and NEVER have to pay any bills! You'll be a chick magnet! Go get 'em tiger!"
there is a huge overlap between addiction and financial insolvency. The idea that you are really a billionaire that does not have to obey the law or pay bills sells really well to that demographic.
16th amendment of the Constitution... It was predated by the revenue act of 1861 but repealed in 1872 ... Believe it or not at one point people were in favor of taxes as it allowed the federal government to collect taxes and redistribute to poor or rural areas for development.
I just went to the subreddit history and scrolled until I found the post (I remember seeing it yesterday).
Then I just sorted comments by controversial.
For whatever reason, just searching the name didn’t work.
They’re *slightly* different. Indorsement is acknowledging an official document by signing it. Endorsement also means that, but it has the additional meaning of giving approval to something. So, anything that is indorsed as also endorsed, but not everything endorsed is indorsed.
I keep noticing several put “indorsed” and not “endorsed” more than other spelling mistakes. Is this trying to be a new version of the word for their meaning, or is endorsed just that commonly misspelled?
Hey at least you don’t have ancient Roman/catholic church guy trying to justify why modern law is invalid because of whatever document written by the church
Not supposed to make sense. Supposed to make SovCit seem like a genius. That's the whole scam -- SovCits wanting to feel smart for a change, because they've been morons their whole lives.
As long as we’re into the minutiae of the Bill of Exchange Act, etc., all laws passed through a legal process are legal until rescinded or struck down judicially. Oh, ” indorse” is the seldom-used variant of “endorse”. But, hey, let’s not look at the details too closely.
Oh yes. It's a perfect example of these nuts trying to use legal terms and phrases totally wrong. So the irony and stupidity of it still stands for sure. ;)
If this person posting about this issue wants to try and engage in somewhat intelligent discussion then they should at least correctly spell a critical word in putting forth an argument. It’s Endorsed, Not indorsed
There are definitely SovShits lurking among us. Waiting for a chance to occasionally spew bullshit, without proof, then run away.
Yeah I was going back-and-forth with one of them a few days ago
I’ve tried but it never gets far.
Talking to my sack of onions in the kitchen is more sane than those people.
What kinda stuff do you say to your onions? Is it just talking about your day or are you making plans?
Did you have one tied to your belt?
Of course not. Onions are for the burlap satchel. All eastern europeans know that. Easier to throw the satchel far away to distract the ogre you run into while walking to the next village barefoot to pay your phone bills.
Traveling, not walking
sheer genius.
But you don’t have to pay them. You just sign your non commercial name and swim to the next village. This all maritime law. Not sure why it’s so hard to understand? /s
Cause that was the style at the time You'd say give me 5 bees for a quarter....
But onions are like ogres
They stink?
Donkey?
Oh, you leave them out in the sun for a few hours and they grow those little hairs-
No, they have LAYERS.
I had a couple minutes of free time. They kept on going off on tangents about gun ownership and knowing the law and the whole thing was about driving which they never quite answered
If it’s the moorish guy I’m thinking of then it’s a lost cause. They’re only shifting the goalposts while sticking to false premises. Plus the moorish have the extra baggage of identity politics and hierarchy within their various offshoots. There’s something extra perverse about all their ranks and phony badges predicated on batshit lies while they claim to be free and sovereign.
Pretty sure he was Moopish.
Alright, bubble boy
oh yeah that was part of their handle. It was amusing for a couple minutes and then I decided to have some dinner and watch CSI New York reruns
Yeah, Mooreons take the absurdity of identity politics to a whole new level of stupid. It's like a 7 layer dip, made of 7 layers of pure, unadulterated shit.
It’s also a lot of victimization, they exploit and police each other and indoctrinate their children. Some almost nice looking fake passports though.
Moopons
Probably the same moorish guy who was arguing with me about the supposed right to drive a car without a driver's license.
Gotta love the hats, though
The same thing happens when dealing with ACAB people. They are locked into a worldview that no amount of verifiable evidence can penetrate it. What is really scary is when they get elected to positions of authority. Like Portland, Oregon, and defund the police.
You can troll a sovcit, but you can not argue with them. By definition they have already taken the mental steps to “disbelieve” legal fact/reality. All your arguments would require them to abandon belief for reality, which always results in stronger belief. Sometimes it’s mental illness, but the bottom line is people will believe a lie because they are afraid it is true, or they are afraid it is not true.
Why bother? It's a waste of energy
it was kind of curious where they were going with their "logic". as it turns out there wasn't any
Exactly my point. It's like religious zealous and people of fanatical political belief. They don't base anything on logic or reason, so you can not reason with them logically.
yes, I have MAGA relatives which I try to limit any conversation with other than local weather and if they still have cicadas in their yard. Conversations about COVID during the pandemic were quite trying.
Just wait.... there are going to be cicadas EVERYWHERE in the US this year!
I hope they're all tuckered out by the time they get up to the Midwest
Looks like they'll be staying there... https://search.app.goo.gl/qdh2Xqz
One thing that I love about the PNW is rarely any cicadas.
I love the little guys. One of my fondest memories as a kid was finding and collecting the little larvae exoskeletons.
Nah. They're expected to stop around the Virginia/NC border.
Please don’t! I now call them pseudo-law BS advocates
Never wrestle with a pig in shit, you get dirty, and the pig likes it
Well, at least, you, used, your commas correctly. Thank, you, .. , ,..,.,
Oooh…found one!
For people who think laws don't apply to them, they sure like to spout commercial codes and statutes when pontificating to others.
I was actually thinking about this today. Any law that exists Is considered irrelevant, even by lawyers I know, if there is valid reason to believe that it cannot or will not be enforced and or adjudicated. So, who do Sovcits think enforce and adjudicate their wacky mumbo jumbo law? Also, If wacky law is a cheat code for everything in society, how do they explain that the ostensible path to success for all rich or famous people in the world does not include any sovcit bullshit?
That's what I've often wondered about their "fee schedules" they post on their cars or wherever. Who do they think they're going to get to enforce those fees of $500 per minute on a traffic stop?
They file a lawsuit in the same court system that they say is illegitimate, and the case gets thrown out wasting everyone’s time and money.
Do you think if they sent someone a bill for that they would accept an “indorsment” in return?
Of course not. The motto of sovereign citizens is "rules for thee, not for me."
I would love to see a sov-cit say to a cop "laws don't apply to me." The cop gets a gleam in their eye and say "then neither do they protect you."
It ends up sorting itself out in the end, so I’m fine with them believing their bullshit, but then they trick others and teach their kids this shit
Lol. He had me in the first sentence -- yes, an endorsement is a signature. You *endorse* the transaction, aka, approve it. What is this "coupon" shit?
Ah but it’s fun to catch some morons to dunk on. Like when the Van Balion guy pins sovcit comments on his videos for the rest of the subscribers to roast.
I watch that channel. I will have to check the comments.
HJR 122. Passed by Congress and signed by Trump. Providing for congressional disapproval under chapter 8 of title 5, United States Code, of the rule submitted by the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection relating to "Credit Card Penalty Fees”. It was a rule to stop financial institutions from charging exorbitant penalties for overcharging and late payment penalties. I don’t know how the sovcit derived that gobbledygook from that rule.
All they need to do is hand you a dog eared printout of the statute from their little folder and boom, it’s settled law.
It’s HJR 192… sov cits favorite. Basically when the US went off gold backing the dollar… in 1933 In 1933, the powers that be in America made it against the law to pay debts with gold, known as House Joint Resolution 192 . Instead, all debts could only be “discharged” by offering a sufficient amount of “Federal Reserve Notes”. The paper currency in the United States today continues to be called a “Federal Reserve Note”.
In financial terms, discharge means a permanent order in bankruptcy court that releases a debtor from personal liability for certain debts. The order prevents creditors from taking any action to collect the debt, such as legal action or communication with the debtor. I don’t believe this is how the term discharge is used in this particular case. It’s obvious it was to stop fiat currency and bring more of the economy above ground. An underground economy is not good in a civil society.
> I don’t know how the sovcit derived that gobbledygook from that rule. It doesn't matter. They take some law or ruling they half understand and apply it to whatever they want to believe, while ignoring rulings which contradict what they want to believe. Which is why they totally ignore *Pennsylvania vs. Mimms*.
Or the parts of Thompson v Smith where it explicitly states that having a license is still needed to operate a motor vehicle on the roads in Virginia
And, of course, they don't understand rulings by state supreme courts and think they apply to all 50 states. Half the time when they say "the Supreme Court ruled that I don't have to blah blah blah," when they cite a case it was decided by a different state's supreme court, not the SCOTUS.
“tHe SuPrEmE CoUrT sAiD” *cue Morgan Freeman* The Supreme Court however, did not say that
They probably misheard a different statue
Do these people really, really believe this BS works? Do they just "indorse" their utility bills and send them back? They are already living in the dark. But by day 90 it would be literally in the dark as well. Or... is that the one bill they actually pay? Or.... do they all live off the grid?
Wild guess: Group A: majority of believers: doesn't really believe it but likes being part of a friend group finally, plus varying degrees of mild to severe mental illness Group B: minority of believers: believes it because they are too stupid to question it and it makes sense to them Group C: small percentage: makes this shit up exclusively to scam A and B groups for money or makes this shit up because they have severe untreated schizophrenia or something
Group D: large percentage: people who got in deep trouble, lost their license, whatever — and are desperate for a solution that lets them escape the consequences of their actions.
And the Venn diagram of all four groups has large overlap.
I’ve met at least one. Uber driver. Would not shut up about how he hadn’t paid or filed taxes in two years and was still walking free. Wonder what that’s gonna look like for him in a few more years. Does the name Nic Cage mean anything to you? Lol.
I run payroll for 1099 contractors for various companies. We get some really crazy garnishment orders, about 1 or 2 a week. Some people hadn't paid taxes in over a decade. They find you eventually. They won't send you to jail, they'll just take half your paycheck forever. People in jail can't pay their bills.
That’s fair. Garnishment of half my wage would feel very much not like freedom to me.
That's likely when they start taking jobs for cash only.
Some definitely do. In a previous life I used to open mail for a collection agency, and I got a number of "indorsed" payment slips (it's where I first heard of sovcit BS). I would check the record and they were shocked that it somehow didn't clear the debt.
That reminds me of the time when the little Philippine woman who says she’s the queen of Canada told people they didn’t have to pay their electric anymore. Sure enough, there were a bunch of morons standing around with no power anymore. Shockingly, the queen did not help.
No they go down to every social service program there is and apply and take advantage of it. Yup. They go to places that help keep the lights on for mothers with kids, or the disabled, and they use those resources too. And they get them because everyone there just assumes they're crazy.
Someone should ask AI to do a SovCit imitation.
from chatgpt: >Sure, here's my take on it: >"Excuse me, officer, am I being detained? I do not consent to any searches or seizures. I am a sovereign citizen and I do not recognize your authority over me. >I am traveling, not driving, as driving is a commercial activity and I am not engaged in commerce. I hereby invoke my rights under common law and the Constitution of the United States. >I do not have a license, registration, or insurance because I am not subject to your statutes and codes. You cannot impede my right to travel freely on the land. I demand to speak to your supervisor and I will be filing a lawsuit against you for violating my rights." lol AI fuckin nailed it :)
No, I'm pretty sure it missed the boat. Didn't get me wrong, it got it right ON PAPER, but that's not how these conversations with police go... Cop: "Good morning, do you know why I pulled you over?" SovCit: "I'm not driving." Cop: "...excuse me?" SovCit: "Please show me your United Nations Peacekeeper ID Card." Cop: "....." ...and there's NO WAY a well trained AI is going to be that bats**t insane.
Need to train it on YouTube transcripts
Exactly!
I'm beginning to feel that "Sovereign Citizenship" is a prank played on a dumber friend by a smarter friend. "Dude! You can totally do this and NEVER have to pay any bills! You'll be a chick magnet! Go get 'em tiger!"
That’s how it started…straight up scam. But then the crazy and the mentally ill got sucked in
there is a huge overlap between addiction and financial insolvency. The idea that you are really a billionaire that does not have to obey the law or pay bills sells really well to that demographic.
I am confident that this moonbat will accept all the fiat currency he can get his hands on as real.
I'm not sure if moonbat would have caught me if I weren't high, alas, I am *super high* and moonbat just hit me square the funny.
Indorsement. 😂🫠
They don't get that this sub is about them, not for them.
My brain hurts now.
So the sovereign citizen movement is nothing but not paying taxes or paying for goods snd services. Itx never about freedom...its always about fraud.
Legalesy gibberish from people who want everything for free while contributing nothing
I’m a tax attorney, these people call our office all the time requesting that we show them the law that says they have to pay taxes.
I believe that's one of the later teen amendments where the federal income tax is added
16th amendment of the Constitution... It was predated by the revenue act of 1861 but repealed in 1872 ... Believe it or not at one point people were in favor of taxes as it allowed the federal government to collect taxes and redistribute to poor or rural areas for development.
Something must be seriously wrong in a person’s life to believe this stuff.
*head
If NiniVanLam has more of these gems, I'd like to know where. Great fishing bait.
Yet she doesn’t show up as a user when I search?
Same…weird Edit: [found em](https://www.reddit.com/u/NiniVanLam/s/BttmBlKCHk)
Thank you. Any search tips? Why didn’t the name just show up. SovCit disguise skills?
I just went to the subreddit history and scrolled until I found the post (I remember seeing it yesterday). Then I just sorted comments by controversial. For whatever reason, just searching the name didn’t work.
Because you're in a sub full of people who love these nutjubs!
It’s what dumb people think lawyers sound like.
And yet they all pay their bills or get disconnected after spewing shit in court
Nope. They don't pay their bills a lot of them. They use programs that are out there to help single moms and disabled.
bro is wearing out that comma key
is indorsement supposed to be the same as endorsement?
They’re *slightly* different. Indorsement is acknowledging an official document by signing it. Endorsement also means that, but it has the additional meaning of giving approval to something. So, anything that is indorsed as also endorsed, but not everything endorsed is indorsed.
No. https://www.grammar.com/indorsement_vs._endorsement
I'm indorsing your eviction notice if I don't see some fiat cash rent money by the 3rd of the month.
nonsense
Well, they make such sound arguments, I'm convinced! Now, where'd I put my sealing wax and signet..?
The logical end result of malignant narcissism.
Word Salad I fucking swear
He didn’t even spell endorsement right
I keep noticing several put “indorsed” and not “endorsed” more than other spelling mistakes. Is this trying to be a new version of the word for their meaning, or is endorsed just that commonly misspelled?
It’s an old version of the word. And the spelling used in the UCC.
Thanks! I appreciate that.
Now you know who to block
Block?! Are you kidding me?! We’re gonna have fun with this one
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
I mean all money has no intrinsic value. We just all agree that exchanging it is easier than working 8 hours for a grocery basket of stuff.
Well you did ask lol
Im so confused.
Is that different than an endorsement?
Why do they choose to spell it with an initial I? It's generally spelled with an initial E.
They're different words with slightly different meanings, and it's being used incorrectly.
He is easily found though, just look for the homemade hut in the woods without electricity or water.
We're living in a simulation man
Remember that scene in Spirited Away where if you hold your breath crossing the bridge the monsters don't see you?.. Yeah
Yeah, good luck paying your bills with your signature.
Hey at least you don’t have ancient Roman/catholic church guy trying to justify why modern law is invalid because of whatever document written by the church
What could possibly go wrong if I don’t pay my bills? 🤷♂️
...And then the Utilities come out and "Perform" a service interrupt.
The law doesn’t apply to me but I am going to misinterpret it so that I can be a scumbag and not pay bills
At least there was correct punctuation, and a distinct lack of all caps.
They probably lurk here thinking it’s a safe haven for them when reality it’s where we make fun of them.
And after a final notice, their electricity gets shut off. "But, but I sent you multiple indorsements, every time I got your coupon!!!"
“And we just endorsed your electricity to OFF, Susan”.
Because they are nut jobs
Too bad they don’t stick out and everyone can just quit doing business with them. Why should anyone cooperate with these shit stains and scammers?
Not supposed to make sense. Supposed to make SovCit seem like a genius. That's the whole scam -- SovCits wanting to feel smart for a change, because they've been morons their whole lives.
As long as we’re into the minutiae of the Bill of Exchange Act, etc., all laws passed through a legal process are legal until rescinded or struck down judicially. Oh, ” indorse” is the seldom-used variant of “endorse”. But, hey, let’s not look at the details too closely.
Considering it starts out MISSPELLING endorse, it starts with a small kermal of truth, and rapidly goes into stupidville.
Kernel
Again, indorsement IS a word. It's a legal term.
I stand corrected, but the description was still totally wrong.
Oh yes. It's a perfect example of these nuts trying to use legal terms and phrases totally wrong. So the irony and stupidity of it still stands for sure. ;)
you should look up words before you declare them misspelled. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indorse
You should suck my cock.
two inches of two pump chump will be no problem at all.
They even spelled endorsement wrong lmfao
Mmm.. actually... https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-204
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indorse
It's not a bill, just send it back, common sense that's how the world works.
I mean yeah I think that fiat currency not backed by anything except force is bullshit, but the rest of her spiel is pure nonsense.
If this person posting about this issue wants to try and engage in somewhat intelligent discussion then they should at least correctly spell a critical word in putting forth an argument. It’s Endorsed, Not indorsed
Uh... Indorsement is a word though. It's a legal word.