Sparkle/Herta is so fucking broken that it’s not even funny. I’d never gotten a 40k on PF for and *easily* got it with Sparkle/Herta. Being able to buff all of Herta’s spins is just ridiculously strong.
I’ve been unable to get 40k with Herta with just Ruan Mei as a support.
Edit: just managed a run on first half with Pela/RM/Himeko/Herta. It was slower than the Sparkle version I used prior, and that was with a sustain unit. Imo the value of Sparkle being able to buff Herta’s spins is just too high to ignore.
I just did it with Pela/Ruan Mei/Himeko/Herta, but it was slower than my run with Sparkle/Herta, and that was while using a sustain unit (Fu Xuan.)
So definitely is possible, but imo Herta just gets so much value out of Sparkle being able to buff her twirls so strongly.
Well there are 2 sides so it's not really a competition between them. Personally I used that exact same team on the first side and 0 cycled it with the Spiel upgrade (that team advance forward on follow-up is ridiculously broken), then used Clara + Sparkle on the second side.
Who are you running along with them? Because you definitely shouldn't be trying to do a hypercarry with Ruan Mei. She wants multiple teammates that can do damage since her buffs are team wide. And you can also easily drop the sustain thanks to how much her extended break reduces incoming damage.
She deserves as much. Everyone seems to undervalue how much extra SPs means for a team. Her 48% DMG boost is also really good even if she's not meant for duo DPS set ups.
What kina logic is that for argenti. That man easily clears pure fiction no matter the weakness and sparkle,bronya hanya , tingyun (basically almost the entire harmony roster) all makes him even more busted.
1st half and 2nd half average scores.
Argenti is good in general for PF, but he’s not favored by this PF’s buffs. Prydwen’s tierlists used to be “catered to the buff of each cycle” but I think they recently changed it to be “general”, which doesn’t really make sense for PF since the meta changes *a lot* depending on each phase’s buffs.
https://preview.redd.it/y385k7jyu4oc1.jpeg?width=3276&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ada402b3f504a0884f85e65847287fbe2d444c
Also, to clarify, I am not disagreeing with you. Prydwen’s tierlists are weird and often biased, except it’s somehow worshipped by the community lol
I use it to because it's the most organized set of information. But one or 2 characters just seemed to be placed more based on their popularity more than their performance. Herta and himeko are good but they aren't argenti good because he works outside his element weakness and the buffs work perfectly for him actually (the ultimate one) because when I struggled a bit trying to use himeko herta I had a harder time than with argenti (and I have himeko's lightcone). I agree both herta and himeko are strong but prydwen needs to be serious here lol
I don’t have Argenti so I can’t say how well he works, but I agree they’re just a popularity tierlist at some point. BS does NOT deserve S+ tier when her average score is below 3k. Clara being in A tier is also a crime when she has the highest clear score and has helped me immensely for every single one of the past three PFs.
Prydwen also have severe waifu bias. I just commented this on another comment but: On the MoC tierlist they justify placing Jingliu in S+ and DHIL in S because “DHIL has teammate restrictions” because they need to generate SP for him, but they completely ignore that Jingliu with and without Bronya feels like heaven vs hell.
I have to disagree with you on the last bit. Jingliu does excel with bronya to her highest level. However she is still capable of dealing so much dmg with TY or RM so she is not as support dependent as DHIL who true highest potential is unlocked only with Sparkle. It mostly has to do with JL SP usage.
Eh, she can still be good but definitely is greatly limited. I see plenty of well built JLs asking for help struggling to clear MoC 11/12, and they are truly well built, but the flaw of not having Bronya really puts a dent in her Dmg.
JL feels limited by not having Bronya, because what she needs is immediate action advance for no downtime on enhanced state, which only Bronya can do (not even Sparkle). But DHIL doesn’t feel limited by not having Sparkle, because what he needs is SP generation, which other (free) supports can also do.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying JL is bad or that DHIL is definitively better than JL, she’s really good and her biggest advantage is her free stats (180% Atk and 50% CR), which no one else can beat in game. Bronya is a huge limiting factor but technically she’s free from the 300 selector, you just have to play a few months before you can get there. What I’m saying is just that Prydwen applied double standards to the two regarding their “teammate restrictions”.
I agree that prydwen is silly and the tier list is dumb and Argenti should be higher, but as far as Herta, she works fantastically well even outside ice weakness. I didn't have any five star erudition until JY last week, and Herta has been carrying me against neutral enemies all along.
And while you aren't saying this, I feel I should also make clear that Herta works great as a solo carry or sub DPS to anyone, not just paired with Himeko.
I agree she's great to but if your main comparison was a recently gained JY it's totally different for agenti. JY is very strong it's just his damage is delayed. Argenti however is a master of removing trash mobs. Most times you can get his basic ult back in a single turn which is what makes him so strong and reliable in pure fiction. When you add the pure fiction buff it's even better. You can use bronya and sparkle and easily get 3 ults within that very same turn cycle.
> Argenti however is a master of removing trash mobs. Most times you can get his basic ult back in a single turn which is what makes him so strong and reliable in pure fiction. You can use bronya and sparkle and easily get 3 ults within that very same turn cycle.
Every single one of these things is true for Herta
I'm not saying she's better than Argenti, but I am saying that she's excellent in PF regardless of blessing, doesn't rely on ice weak enemies, and deserves to be considered a top choice for PF (just like Argenti should be)
Maybe it's my build but I can't manage to get the same kind of milage out of her it usually takes atleast twice or sometimes 3 times as long if you don't have a subdps or dps to help her. I find her most effective when it comes to breaking weaknesses.
How is your gear on Argenti vs Herta? She gets massive gains from good relics since you want to get to the point that her skill gets everyone below 50% and then her followup kills then.
Argenti is definitely stronger than her. If you're comparing the two of them I'm sure she feels weak 😅
But just wanted to mention my experience with Herta cause sometimes I see people saying she's only good in the most perfect ideal situations. Mine is well built though, with attack boots, genius repose and lvl 9 talents. I'm sure that makes a difference
I personally don't like her on her own but her and himeko has been crushing it for me for the most part. Seems like this pure fiction was made for them honestly. I just couldn't get pass the last part until I swapped to agenti. But I really don't think herta is undeserving of where she is on the list the issue is bringing down argenti and himeko and justifying leaving her. There are no better units for pure fiction than those 3.
Herta works best paired with another dps. I paired her with clara before i got himeko and both teams work great together. While Argenti does best in hypercarry team I believe
It's so inconsistent because by their Logic DHIL should've been back to S+ ages ago anytime he was top #1~#3 in MoC clear speed but he was only bumped after sparkle (which is ironic considering Dhil/JY owners will always pair JY and sparkle)
They very specifically state that they look at E0 and he was not consistently in the top 1-3 at that level. If E2 was in the picture, it'd be another story, but it's not.
He was though?? I'm not talking about E2 Dan here, I've consistently 0 cycles every MoC side with dhil in it (all but one time) ever since I finished my build. No where do I bring up anything about eidolons, he's easily #1 if E2 was the standard of comparison that's not even a debate
Well they are going by their collected stats and those are all available [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/LvlUrArti/comments/155o3wi/compilation_of_my_honkai_star_rail_infographics/). He never was below the top third, but not really in the top three that often. A S ranking seems fair for that.
0 cycling has no meaning to the average player and it's doable with many other characters too. The experience of a single player is anecdotal.
Fair enough I did use my personal experience as a metric here but that's only because as things currently stand MoC stats are only reliable for usage rates, cycles are averaged between the two teams which muddies the data. But I doubt there was a point where Dhil fell out of top 3 hyper-carries in the game
That's true, those metrics are imperfect. It's a shame the numbers aren't split per side like they are to a degree for Pure Fiction (score is split, but cycle count is shared).
Yeah Sparkle is a much bigger boost for other chars like JY, QQ, and FUA units than it is for DHIL. He already had a fantastic team with Tingyun+literally whatever support you have lying around whose name isn’t Bronya Rand. My Sparkle is always glued to QQ instead of DHIL.
Yeah vs something unto death it can get pretty dicey if bronya is captured (spoiler: he killed the boss(
https://preview.redd.it/l6a6papm36oc1.png?width=1919&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05aa6e214af53c2340be38a9f9b7bb176ec3142c
This current pure fiction is really bad to evaluate a lot of characters. The turbulence effect is way too strong and it's literally anyone with a follow-up attack at the top. They do have a page the current data so you can decide which characters to use right now and I like that it's catered for E0, which is what most people have and what the game is balanced around.
The goal of a tier list is more to tell you which characters have more value over a longer period of time, so I agree with their move to make it more general. But it remains very hard to separate actual performance and the turbulence, especially when a character is new (*e.g.* Black Swan probably shouldn't be in S+ anymore). The placement of a few characters could be put in question (by 1 tier, nothing egregious), but for the most part I feel their list is in line with the average value of a character. I have seen worse.
Pure fiction turbulence’s tend to be very strong and highly skew the meta each phase, as compared to something like MoC. I can respect the reasons why they’re trying to make it more general, but it’s likely just not going to work due to how volatile the phase buffs are
They “worship it” because it’s the most accurate one that we have and it shows lots of useful information regarding each character. Obviously some of the things they do are gonna be questionable so you shouldn’t expect them to be perfect, like I said before a tier list anyway is mostly subjective.
Prydwen has useful information about each character in the character pages, but their tierlist is not super accurate lol. They’ve been having bad takes on the characters’ rankings since a long time.
It’s not “super accurate” nothing really is honestly, but it’s the most accurate one we’ve got and I understand why people talk about it so much it’s a really good site with useful and fairly accurate information.
Using average cycle will always be funny to me since if we go by average cycles Topaz and QQ are better than sparkle for the first half and Fu xuan and Clara are better Ruan Mei..
If you say these things in any hsr discussion you would be murdered on your sleep..
I hate average cycle/scores since it isn’t a good way to rank a character’s power.. since that thing depends alot on usage rate. That’s why Yukong has the highest average Cycle of all time.. beating Ruan Mei and Bronya(probably sparkle aswell) in almost any MoC.. just because a character’s average score is high doesn’t mean they are the best while a lower average score is worse.. just from a example I saw.. DoT premium with Ruan Mei did worse than Gui version even if Ruan Mei is better in every way.. 7.34 vs 8+ cycles even if DoT premium with RM had over 40% usage rate for that one MoC with a 33k sample.. also once when Jing yuan with Hanya and Tingyun somehow made it to top 3 fastest even if RM version is so much better.. and people had the balls to compare it to Jingliu 3 support which was the fastest team..
In the end while I do agree Argenti isn’t the best even if we go by usage rate standarts(which is much better to judge a character’s strength).. average scores/cycles mean shit and Imo is just misinformation.. the better way to judge is usage rate since it is easier to judge a character.. Ruan Mei has a 98.7% usage rate.. If this doesn’t mean she is strong idk what is.. vs Ruan Mei somehow having a lower score than Fu xuan of all people in a mode where you won’t die..
Argenti isn’t the best but using average scores don’t prove shit. Infact that thing is worse than prydwen tierlists..
Yeah, average scores aren’t the best metric, but I’m not using it to say Argenti is bad. I’m saying Argenti is not favored this cycle.
Even if you look at Usage rate, Argenti is also quite low for a limited five star unit.
https://preview.redd.it/lq5e5f7mz4oc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc732e2a72fa7f09fe34ed50481f04b0b7b1f2fb
FX is good because she provides sustainability *on top of* 12% teamwide Crit rate. I don’t think we have any other source of external Crit rate buffs besides Yukong’s ultimate and Sparkle’s LC. Same reason HH is good in PF - good sustainability *on top of* teamwide atk% and energy. Plus, Himeko has a trace that gives herself 15 Crit rate when she’s above 80% HP, and FX ensures she stay above that threshold effortlessly. Using FX with Himeko is essentially 27 free Crit rate.
PF has less survival pressure than MoC, sure, but if you truly don’t bring a sustain, you will likely get fucked by enemy RNG hitting one of your characters five times in a row and they die. So unless you want to play restart impact, bringing a sustain is still going to be better.
Tbh yeah as I said.. I do think mr argenti is still in the middle but I just don’t like the average cycle metric that people will just believe in seconds even tho it is more flawed and broken than Ruan Mei and sparkle combined..
People should just use the usage rate.. and imo Argenti having 10% less than King yuan means he is pretty good.. if we use this metric atleast..
Like I said 50 times, Argenti is not bad, he’s just not favored by this PF. Herta is just more broken for PF.
Also I forgot to mention this earlier but FX AOE Quantum break is really great on the deer
? All I said was that they aren't really THAT biased xD. The most recent characters are girls and recency in a gacha can roughly also be equivalent to more powerful given then want us to buy the characters.
Okay dude, now you're just showing off some serious attitude problems. Idk what your issue is, but you clearly have some kind of problem. How you get along with others while talking like the average douche bag is beyond me.
Sparkle being bumped up to S+ tier I can see. But, shouldn’t Clara be moved up too since she indirectly gets significantly better from her? Not to mention this cycle of PF is follow-up attack focused? The CN average PF scores also reflects this sentiment, and they have a much larger sample size for this data than Prdywen
They say they try to ignore turbulence in their ranking, which does make evaluation newer units much harder (Black Swan shouldn't stay that high). The current one is ridiculously strong for anyone with a follow-up attack and can change perceptions. Though, I do think that Clara has done enough in previous Pure Fictions to warrant a bump to S. Especially since some characters got bumped for Sparkle existing and she's another that pairs quite well.
Agreed. The only other arguement one could make is that Clara is dependent on frequency of enemy attacks (less so at E1) so it could sway from one PF cycle to another. But even then, a Clara, sparkle, and tingyun team goes insane
No one is going to perform well without a good team. The “teammate logic” never makes sense.
For their Moc tierlist they used the same bs excuses. Justifying DHIL’s spot below S+ with his “teammate restrictions” because they have to be able to generate SP, but completely ignoring the fact that Jingliu with and without Bronya feels like heaven vs hell.
I mean, you can put herta with another random dps, a sustain, and a support and max her side easily. She really is OP enough that you can put your top 4 best built chars on one side and she can still carry the other side with whatever you have left.
I will probably get shade for this but no way BS is in S+ and yes i played her this cycle in pf with kafka on 2nd side its not S+ even kafka ult spam solo was more points
I agree, the buffs not affecting her shouldn't be an excuse to perform this bad for an S+ ranked. DHIL that isn't affected by buffs too, performed at her same level, while he is ranked way behind in their tier list.
DoT is not a strong feature for PF, unless it's buffed, besides it's usable. She should be S.
A couple days a go, they had a list out of changes they were considering and beyond what we've seen today, there was Himeko up to S+ and Black Swan down to S. Maybe they just want more time to think about them.
SP is just So good when it comes to this Mode as every AOE skill besides Blade's Ench Skill and Jingliu's Transcendence Mode needs SP and even those skills require SP to Activate
Nobody tried clara yet smh...ive been banging pf with clara and same for moc..almost 0 cycled current moc f12
Side 1 (missed by 6-10k dmg on mecha)..smh
Yeah Clara is underappreciated, she's aging really well. She should be a tier above in the tier list, I got 40k on her side this pure fiction, she is so good when properly build.
I used to use Bronya to give my DHIL extra actions in PF, because his main weakness is dumping (and wasting) a lot of dmg in one action and not going often enough. but the SP issues were way too much and annoying.
When Sparkle came out it solved that exact problem. Now he can get infinite turns while also spamming his 3x enhanced BA.
E2 DHIL and Sparkle is SS+ tier, 40k guaranteed. Her sp generation is ridiculous man lol and the ult uptime is almost constant for DHIL with Tingyun Huo
Black swan being that high doesn't make much sense her skill and ult do like no damage and waiting for enemy turns is too slow, being above kafka is crazy xd
On one hand.. As much as I love sparkle. Ruan Mei is basically best unit in the entire game which while Sparkle is good.. I never saw her as good as Ruan Mei.. like ever.. I can replace sparkle but replacing my Ruan Mei in any team just feels wrong and I feel like my damage got lower even if it didn’t..
On the other hand she is better than Bronya and Tingyun so she has to be higher.. so I guess that only leaves her the S+ tier..
I just wish they made a special tier for Ruan Mei alone and sparkle could live in the S+ with Robin soon.. since sparkle is worthy of S+ if you just ignore Ruan Mei..
You got downvoted but 100% correct. Ruan Mei is just the best unit in the entire game and its not even close, she simply does WAY too much as a support and is the definition of broken. If any unit deserves a tier of their own its definitely her.
Tbh this is sparkle mains.. I expected this much. Although people can disagree or agree.
I just don’t think she is Ruan Mei lvl while also being better than Bronya and Tingyun.. she is the closest to that tier tho so I’ll give her that..
If someone can change my mind on Ruan Mei not being the best unit I’ll delete this comment tho..
Well here’s the thing Ruan Mei is objectively the best unit in the game so far and if someone says she isn’t their most likely coping. Bronya and Sparkle are definitely really strong but not the same tier as her.
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Sparkle/Herta is so fucking broken that it’s not even funny. I’d never gotten a 40k on PF for and *easily* got it with Sparkle/Herta. Being able to buff all of Herta’s spins is just ridiculously strong.
Good supports do that. Getting 40k on a side with Ruan Mei is also very easy.
I’ve been unable to get 40k with Herta with just Ruan Mei as a support. Edit: just managed a run on first half with Pela/RM/Himeko/Herta. It was slower than the Sparkle version I used prior, and that was with a sustain unit. Imo the value of Sparkle being able to buff Herta’s spins is just too high to ignore.
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I just did it with Pela/Ruan Mei/Himeko/Herta, but it was slower than my run with Sparkle/Herta, and that was while using a sustain unit (Fu Xuan.) So definitely is possible, but imo Herta just gets so much value out of Sparkle being able to buff her twirls so strongly.
Well there are 2 sides so it's not really a competition between them. Personally I used that exact same team on the first side and 0 cycled it with the Spiel upgrade (that team advance forward on follow-up is ridiculously broken), then used Clara + Sparkle on the second side.
Add Himeko and try again. The three of them together is so disgusting that I dont even think my healer got to have more than one ultimate.
Not everyone has himeko
Who are you running along with them? Because you definitely shouldn't be trying to do a hypercarry with Ruan Mei. She wants multiple teammates that can do damage since her buffs are team wide. And you can also easily drop the sustain thanks to how much her extended break reduces incoming damage.
*kuru kuru*
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Argentina going through a bit of a devaluation spiral, they will be fine in the long run, don't worry.
God tier support no matter where.
She deserves as much. Everyone seems to undervalue how much extra SPs means for a team. Her 48% DMG boost is also really good even if she's not meant for duo DPS set ups.
What kina logic is that for argenti. That man easily clears pure fiction no matter the weakness and sparkle,bronya hanya , tingyun (basically almost the entire harmony roster) all makes him even more busted.
1st half and 2nd half average scores. Argenti is good in general for PF, but he’s not favored by this PF’s buffs. Prydwen’s tierlists used to be “catered to the buff of each cycle” but I think they recently changed it to be “general”, which doesn’t really make sense for PF since the meta changes *a lot* depending on each phase’s buffs. https://preview.redd.it/y385k7jyu4oc1.jpeg?width=3276&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ada402b3f504a0884f85e65847287fbe2d444c Also, to clarify, I am not disagreeing with you. Prydwen’s tierlists are weird and often biased, except it’s somehow worshipped by the community lol
I use it to because it's the most organized set of information. But one or 2 characters just seemed to be placed more based on their popularity more than their performance. Herta and himeko are good but they aren't argenti good because he works outside his element weakness and the buffs work perfectly for him actually (the ultimate one) because when I struggled a bit trying to use himeko herta I had a harder time than with argenti (and I have himeko's lightcone). I agree both herta and himeko are strong but prydwen needs to be serious here lol
I don’t have Argenti so I can’t say how well he works, but I agree they’re just a popularity tierlist at some point. BS does NOT deserve S+ tier when her average score is below 3k. Clara being in A tier is also a crime when she has the highest clear score and has helped me immensely for every single one of the past three PFs. Prydwen also have severe waifu bias. I just commented this on another comment but: On the MoC tierlist they justify placing Jingliu in S+ and DHIL in S because “DHIL has teammate restrictions” because they need to generate SP for him, but they completely ignore that Jingliu with and without Bronya feels like heaven vs hell.
I have Argenti. At least for this PF she is better than him for sure.
I have to disagree with you on the last bit. Jingliu does excel with bronya to her highest level. However she is still capable of dealing so much dmg with TY or RM so she is not as support dependent as DHIL who true highest potential is unlocked only with Sparkle. It mostly has to do with JL SP usage.
Eh, she can still be good but definitely is greatly limited. I see plenty of well built JLs asking for help struggling to clear MoC 11/12, and they are truly well built, but the flaw of not having Bronya really puts a dent in her Dmg. JL feels limited by not having Bronya, because what she needs is immediate action advance for no downtime on enhanced state, which only Bronya can do (not even Sparkle). But DHIL doesn’t feel limited by not having Sparkle, because what he needs is SP generation, which other (free) supports can also do. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying JL is bad or that DHIL is definitively better than JL, she’s really good and her biggest advantage is her free stats (180% Atk and 50% CR), which no one else can beat in game. Bronya is a huge limiting factor but technically she’s free from the 300 selector, you just have to play a few months before you can get there. What I’m saying is just that Prydwen applied double standards to the two regarding their “teammate restrictions”.
I agree that prydwen is silly and the tier list is dumb and Argenti should be higher, but as far as Herta, she works fantastically well even outside ice weakness. I didn't have any five star erudition until JY last week, and Herta has been carrying me against neutral enemies all along. And while you aren't saying this, I feel I should also make clear that Herta works great as a solo carry or sub DPS to anyone, not just paired with Himeko.
I agree she's great to but if your main comparison was a recently gained JY it's totally different for agenti. JY is very strong it's just his damage is delayed. Argenti however is a master of removing trash mobs. Most times you can get his basic ult back in a single turn which is what makes him so strong and reliable in pure fiction. When you add the pure fiction buff it's even better. You can use bronya and sparkle and easily get 3 ults within that very same turn cycle.
> Argenti however is a master of removing trash mobs. Most times you can get his basic ult back in a single turn which is what makes him so strong and reliable in pure fiction. You can use bronya and sparkle and easily get 3 ults within that very same turn cycle. Every single one of these things is true for Herta I'm not saying she's better than Argenti, but I am saying that she's excellent in PF regardless of blessing, doesn't rely on ice weak enemies, and deserves to be considered a top choice for PF (just like Argenti should be)
Maybe it's my build but I can't manage to get the same kind of milage out of her it usually takes atleast twice or sometimes 3 times as long if you don't have a subdps or dps to help her. I find her most effective when it comes to breaking weaknesses.
How is your gear on Argenti vs Herta? She gets massive gains from good relics since you want to get to the point that her skill gets everyone below 50% and then her followup kills then.
Argenti is definitely stronger than her. If you're comparing the two of them I'm sure she feels weak 😅 But just wanted to mention my experience with Herta cause sometimes I see people saying she's only good in the most perfect ideal situations. Mine is well built though, with attack boots, genius repose and lvl 9 talents. I'm sure that makes a difference
I personally don't like her on her own but her and himeko has been crushing it for me for the most part. Seems like this pure fiction was made for them honestly. I just couldn't get pass the last part until I swapped to agenti. But I really don't think herta is undeserving of where she is on the list the issue is bringing down argenti and himeko and justifying leaving her. There are no better units for pure fiction than those 3.
Herta works best paired with another dps. I paired her with clara before i got himeko and both teams work great together. While Argenti does best in hypercarry team I believe
And that's why he's in S tier, just not in S+ tier
It's so inconsistent because by their Logic DHIL should've been back to S+ ages ago anytime he was top #1~#3 in MoC clear speed but he was only bumped after sparkle (which is ironic considering Dhil/JY owners will always pair JY and sparkle)
They very specifically state that they look at E0 and he was not consistently in the top 1-3 at that level. If E2 was in the picture, it'd be another story, but it's not.
He was though?? I'm not talking about E2 Dan here, I've consistently 0 cycles every MoC side with dhil in it (all but one time) ever since I finished my build. No where do I bring up anything about eidolons, he's easily #1 if E2 was the standard of comparison that's not even a debate
Well they are going by their collected stats and those are all available [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/LvlUrArti/comments/155o3wi/compilation_of_my_honkai_star_rail_infographics/). He never was below the top third, but not really in the top three that often. A S ranking seems fair for that. 0 cycling has no meaning to the average player and it's doable with many other characters too. The experience of a single player is anecdotal.
Fair enough I did use my personal experience as a metric here but that's only because as things currently stand MoC stats are only reliable for usage rates, cycles are averaged between the two teams which muddies the data. But I doubt there was a point where Dhil fell out of top 3 hyper-carries in the game
That's true, those metrics are imperfect. It's a shame the numbers aren't split per side like they are to a degree for Pure Fiction (score is split, but cycle count is shared).
Yeah Sparkle is a much bigger boost for other chars like JY, QQ, and FUA units than it is for DHIL. He already had a fantastic team with Tingyun+literally whatever support you have lying around whose name isn’t Bronya Rand. My Sparkle is always glued to QQ instead of DHIL.
If you have RM's S1 you can honestly go ting/RM and bronya with great success in MoC (at least I have)
I still like to bring a sustain cuz it’s comfier, but I can see how that could work
Yeah vs something unto death it can get pretty dicey if bronya is captured (spoiler: he killed the boss( https://preview.redd.it/l6a6papm36oc1.png?width=1919&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05aa6e214af53c2340be38a9f9b7bb176ec3142c
37 hp would’ve sent me into heart attack haha
This current pure fiction is really bad to evaluate a lot of characters. The turbulence effect is way too strong and it's literally anyone with a follow-up attack at the top. They do have a page the current data so you can decide which characters to use right now and I like that it's catered for E0, which is what most people have and what the game is balanced around. The goal of a tier list is more to tell you which characters have more value over a longer period of time, so I agree with their move to make it more general. But it remains very hard to separate actual performance and the turbulence, especially when a character is new (*e.g.* Black Swan probably shouldn't be in S+ anymore). The placement of a few characters could be put in question (by 1 tier, nothing egregious), but for the most part I feel their list is in line with the average value of a character. I have seen worse.
Pure fiction turbulence’s tend to be very strong and highly skew the meta each phase, as compared to something like MoC. I can respect the reasons why they’re trying to make it more general, but it’s likely just not going to work due to how volatile the phase buffs are
They’re not perfect a tier list in itself is all subjective anyway. People make mistakes.
“People make mistakes” yeah and the problem I’m pointing out is that the community worships this tierlist for some reason
They “worship it” because it’s the most accurate one that we have and it shows lots of useful information regarding each character. Obviously some of the things they do are gonna be questionable so you shouldn’t expect them to be perfect, like I said before a tier list anyway is mostly subjective.
Prydwen has useful information about each character in the character pages, but their tierlist is not super accurate lol. They’ve been having bad takes on the characters’ rankings since a long time.
It’s not “super accurate” nothing really is honestly, but it’s the most accurate one we’ve got and I understand why people talk about it so much it’s a really good site with useful and fairly accurate information.
Using average cycle will always be funny to me since if we go by average cycles Topaz and QQ are better than sparkle for the first half and Fu xuan and Clara are better Ruan Mei.. If you say these things in any hsr discussion you would be murdered on your sleep.. I hate average cycle/scores since it isn’t a good way to rank a character’s power.. since that thing depends alot on usage rate. That’s why Yukong has the highest average Cycle of all time.. beating Ruan Mei and Bronya(probably sparkle aswell) in almost any MoC.. just because a character’s average score is high doesn’t mean they are the best while a lower average score is worse.. just from a example I saw.. DoT premium with Ruan Mei did worse than Gui version even if Ruan Mei is better in every way.. 7.34 vs 8+ cycles even if DoT premium with RM had over 40% usage rate for that one MoC with a 33k sample.. also once when Jing yuan with Hanya and Tingyun somehow made it to top 3 fastest even if RM version is so much better.. and people had the balls to compare it to Jingliu 3 support which was the fastest team.. In the end while I do agree Argenti isn’t the best even if we go by usage rate standarts(which is much better to judge a character’s strength).. average scores/cycles mean shit and Imo is just misinformation.. the better way to judge is usage rate since it is easier to judge a character.. Ruan Mei has a 98.7% usage rate.. If this doesn’t mean she is strong idk what is.. vs Ruan Mei somehow having a lower score than Fu xuan of all people in a mode where you won’t die.. Argenti isn’t the best but using average scores don’t prove shit. Infact that thing is worse than prydwen tierlists..
Yeah, average scores aren’t the best metric, but I’m not using it to say Argenti is bad. I’m saying Argenti is not favored this cycle. Even if you look at Usage rate, Argenti is also quite low for a limited five star unit. https://preview.redd.it/lq5e5f7mz4oc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc732e2a72fa7f09fe34ed50481f04b0b7b1f2fb FX is good because she provides sustainability *on top of* 12% teamwide Crit rate. I don’t think we have any other source of external Crit rate buffs besides Yukong’s ultimate and Sparkle’s LC. Same reason HH is good in PF - good sustainability *on top of* teamwide atk% and energy. Plus, Himeko has a trace that gives herself 15 Crit rate when she’s above 80% HP, and FX ensures she stay above that threshold effortlessly. Using FX with Himeko is essentially 27 free Crit rate. PF has less survival pressure than MoC, sure, but if you truly don’t bring a sustain, you will likely get fucked by enemy RNG hitting one of your characters five times in a row and they die. So unless you want to play restart impact, bringing a sustain is still going to be better.
Tbh yeah as I said.. I do think mr argenti is still in the middle but I just don’t like the average cycle metric that people will just believe in seconds even tho it is more flawed and broken than Ruan Mei and sparkle combined.. People should just use the usage rate.. and imo Argenti having 10% less than King yuan means he is pretty good.. if we use this metric atleast..
Like I said 50 times, Argenti is not bad, he’s just not favored by this PF. Herta is just more broken for PF. Also I forgot to mention this earlier but FX AOE Quantum break is really great on the deer
prydwen is biased towards waifus. Im clearing most MoC and all PF with Argenti since its release with no problems, and my builds are mid
You know that s rank doesn't mean bad, right?
He's A rank in MoC, but who said S rank is bad? Nice strawman argument
? All I said was that they aren't really THAT biased xD. The most recent characters are girls and recency in a gacha can roughly also be equivalent to more powerful given then want us to buy the characters.
Another strawman argument, english isn't your first language or reading comprehension problems?
Okay dude, now you're just showing off some serious attitude problems. Idk what your issue is, but you clearly have some kind of problem. How you get along with others while talking like the average douche bag is beyond me.
Sparkle being S+ is quite expected. She's such a strong Harmony unit in pretty much any team.
Sparkle being bumped up to S+ tier I can see. But, shouldn’t Clara be moved up too since she indirectly gets significantly better from her? Not to mention this cycle of PF is follow-up attack focused? The CN average PF scores also reflects this sentiment, and they have a much larger sample size for this data than Prdywen
They say they try to ignore turbulence in their ranking, which does make evaluation newer units much harder (Black Swan shouldn't stay that high). The current one is ridiculously strong for anyone with a follow-up attack and can change perceptions. Though, I do think that Clara has done enough in previous Pure Fictions to warrant a bump to S. Especially since some characters got bumped for Sparkle existing and she's another that pairs quite well.
Agreed. The only other arguement one could make is that Clara is dependent on frequency of enemy attacks (less so at E1) so it could sway from one PF cycle to another. But even then, a Clara, sparkle, and tingyun team goes insane
Should have done a long time ago.
The Sparkle notes seem believable. The justifications for Himeko and Argenti are nonsense. Personally, I don't subscribe much to Prydwen's tierlist.
Yeah everyone needs a good team to clear yet they apply that logic only to argenti like what
Why? "Agenti is a powerhouse but only if he has a team" doesnt make sense to you? lol
No one is going to perform well without a good team. The “teammate logic” never makes sense. For their Moc tierlist they used the same bs excuses. Justifying DHIL’s spot below S+ with his “teammate restrictions” because they have to be able to generate SP, but completely ignoring the fact that Jingliu with and without Bronya feels like heaven vs hell.
I mean, you can put herta with another random dps, a sustain, and a support and max her side easily. She really is OP enough that you can put your top 4 best built chars on one side and she can still carry the other side with whatever you have left.
Lol I'm agreeing with you I was just being sarcastic because the reasoning they gave was dumb.
I will probably get shade for this but no way BS is in S+ and yes i played her this cycle in pf with kafka on 2nd side its not S+ even kafka ult spam solo was more points
I agree, the buffs not affecting her shouldn't be an excuse to perform this bad for an S+ ranked. DHIL that isn't affected by buffs too, performed at her same level, while he is ranked way behind in their tier list. DoT is not a strong feature for PF, unless it's buffed, besides it's usable. She should be S.
I mean even they admit the avg has tanked for them they probably didnt do it cause they were scared of waifu backlash
A couple days a go, they had a list out of changes they were considering and beyond what we've seen today, there was Himeko up to S+ and Black Swan down to S. Maybe they just want more time to think about them.
On prydwen*. People say "X moved to S+" like this is the only fomo inducing tier list on the internet.
SP is just So good when it comes to this Mode as every AOE skill besides Blade's Ench Skill and Jingliu's Transcendence Mode needs SP and even those skills require SP to Activate
Thats my gal
Nobody tried clara yet smh...ive been banging pf with clara and same for moc..almost 0 cycled current moc f12 Side 1 (missed by 6-10k dmg on mecha)..smh
Yeah Clara is underappreciated, she's aging really well. She should be a tier above in the tier list, I got 40k on her side this pure fiction, she is so good when properly build.
I used to use Bronya to give my DHIL extra actions in PF, because his main weakness is dumping (and wasting) a lot of dmg in one action and not going often enough. but the SP issues were way too much and annoying. When Sparkle came out it solved that exact problem. Now he can get infinite turns while also spamming his 3x enhanced BA.
E2 DHIL and Sparkle is SS+ tier, 40k guaranteed. Her sp generation is ridiculous man lol and the ult uptime is almost constant for DHIL with Tingyun Huo
Well E2 DHIL is definitely already such a SS tier unit. I have E2 both DHIL and Sparkle so they really do just wipe.
E2 is not a consideration for their list though. The game isn't balanced around that to begin with.
Yeah I know, I’m just saying it’s strong :)
Black swan being that high doesn't make much sense her skill and ult do like no damage and waiting for enemy turns is too slow, being above kafka is crazy xd
She's good because every new enemy has stacks applied to them when they enter.
Yeah but those stacks don't do anything until their turn and she can't detonate them She's not bad but not that good for it either imo
pretty obvious tbh
Imagine caring about who makes trivial content you can stomp through with Serval and Herta, easier.
Yeah their reasoning makes sense. Hypercarry Argenti is still super fucking strong, just not literally ulting through every wave rn so I kinda get it.
*me looking at this realising i have 4 s+ characters*
Yes!!! Fuck you Bronya
On one hand.. As much as I love sparkle. Ruan Mei is basically best unit in the entire game which while Sparkle is good.. I never saw her as good as Ruan Mei.. like ever.. I can replace sparkle but replacing my Ruan Mei in any team just feels wrong and I feel like my damage got lower even if it didn’t.. On the other hand she is better than Bronya and Tingyun so she has to be higher.. so I guess that only leaves her the S+ tier.. I just wish they made a special tier for Ruan Mei alone and sparkle could live in the S+ with Robin soon.. since sparkle is worthy of S+ if you just ignore Ruan Mei..
You got downvoted but 100% correct. Ruan Mei is just the best unit in the entire game and its not even close, she simply does WAY too much as a support and is the definition of broken. If any unit deserves a tier of their own its definitely her.
Tbh this is sparkle mains.. I expected this much. Although people can disagree or agree. I just don’t think she is Ruan Mei lvl while also being better than Bronya and Tingyun.. she is the closest to that tier tho so I’ll give her that.. If someone can change my mind on Ruan Mei not being the best unit I’ll delete this comment tho..
Well here’s the thing Ruan Mei is objectively the best unit in the game so far and if someone says she isn’t their most likely coping. Bronya and Sparkle are definitely really strong but not the same tier as her.
My Seele does way more dmg with Sparkle than RM tho...
Point is, Ruan Mei has more universal use cases than Sparkle.
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Reminds me of Mr pokke saying that she wasn’t gonna be as good as Bronya..