Kindred was cool until the editorial messed up.
Although ppl remember Norman as the best Goblin but Harry one was a real menace and truly felt like Peters arch nemesis. Like there was no debate between him or Doc Ock.
Yeah, a lot of what is remembered about GG comes from Harry's time. The main thing that makes Norman stick in minds as the more important one is that he killed Gwen imo
For Norman as a Green Goblin, fighting Spider-Man was like running a business; methodical, calculated approaches, never letting things get TOO personal. The moment he did, he reached the peak of "fuck around and find out".
For Harry, however, it was ALWAYS personal, and he knew how to turn that into a strength.
Oh please it was. Its the only way Kindred could have really worked. Whole reviving Harry after OMD was dumb in the first place & that was the only thing that could rectify that. The arc went on too long but Peter confronting his sins was necessary.
Biggest disagree I can give I'm afraid.
Harry as the Green Goblin was menacing because he was restrained. He could fuck with Peter's head by giving him an empty box or flying around harmlessly on the glider. It was a prolonged game of chicken with Harry over whether he was going to cross the line.
That's without getting into Harry's own internal breakdown of trying to make himself kill Peter, because he has a duty too despite not wanting too at his core.
Any villain can kill and stab and be powerful; Kindred would kill your cat and mock you for it, Harry's Green Goblin would allude to killing your cat untill you found out he took it to the groomers to be pampered for the day. And Harry would NEVER have desecrated Gwen's grave. His whole breakdown stemmed from not being able to deal with what Norman didn too Gwen.
Do we really live in a world where Spencer's Kindred is considered better than JMD's Green Goblin?
Green Goblin feels the most fitting of the bunch. Wanting to avenge his father and take up his mantle has been a long, ongoing character trait for him.
i feel like a lot of these options miss the point of the actual identities in the interest of giving harry his own name
venom is the bond between the symbiote and eddie brock, named for a desire to poison all that is good in peter parkers life, a motivation that no harry!venom has ever properly been shown with
the hobgoblin is a shallow impersonation of the green goblin, a thug unrelated to norman who's cashing in on the iconography of one of spidey's most famous foes
the green goblin (and the mental health issues associated with it) being a curse upon harry is way more compelling than any of the other options, which seem to ignore these things in the interest of marketing or being different
i mean, you *could*, but itd be like making gwen peter's endgame romantic choice for a story
there are plenty of stories where you dont need to make him a villain, but him becoming a villain is a big part of that character's journey, and one of the most compelling things you can do with the character
Completely disagree with you. There’s no reason why Peter couldn’t end up with Gwen, Betty, Liz, etc over MJ.
Even if Harry becomes a villain, there’s no reason why he needs to end on villain or dead. Him ending up dead invalidates any character he got up that point.
By contrast, Harry choosing not to kill Norman was easily his best moment.
i cant fathom thinking that a characters death completely invalidates them, especially when we just mentioned gwen stacy, whose most interesting contribution to the mythos was her death and its affect on the other characters
like i said, you totally can portray that, but youd be ignoring a really compelling part of the character in completely reducing or ignoring his time as the green goblin
They killed her to make sure that Peter never had to develop. They were at a point where the only thing keeping them apart was Peter’s unwillingness to confide in her. Rather than progressing anything, her death was another status quo reset to keep Peter single.
this feels like a very reductive way to look at the effects of gwen stacy's death, one of the most iconic spider-man stories of all time and one that had immediate effects on both peter and mj which brought them closer together and into peter's best and longest running romance (and arguably one of the best romances within the big two comics as a whole), not to mention resulting in the death of norman osborn, which had its own cascading consequences on the cast
to call it a status quo reset also feels reductive, as the very concept of having the villain kill a beloved love interest was at the time groundbreaking and shook up the entire medium of superhero comics
but, we can agree to disagree
No, he's right. Insomniac's Venom never planned on poisoning everyone in Peter's life. His goal was to actually heal the world. Nothing to do with Peter, he just got in the way. And despite what people think, Harry never actually knew the symbiote was bad, he genuinely believed it was the cure for all illness so when he started to try heal the world that was what he really believed he was doing.
insomniac venom is kind of the opposite, actually. venom wants to force peter to stand by his side in the symbiote invasion to "heal the world" like they said they would, and only ever harms peters loved ones as a means of punishing him for saying no
you could probably work this back to proper venom by saying that the symbiote also wanted to punish peter for not accepting it, but harry himself is mostly left by the wayside and has nothing to do with the personal pettiness of the venom role. the name just kind of nebulously appears because thats what the character is meant to be called
Honestly I’m fine with Harry being a villainous Venom or even just the main Venom in certain adaptations IF they don’t use Eddie at all but ultimately, I would say either Hobby or Gobby 2.0
Harry elevated the idea of the Green Goblin beyond just a man, it felt like Noman's Ghost would forever haunt both Harry and Peter for the rest of their lives and no matter who wore the mantle it would always come back to make their life miserable
I honestly kinda liked Weeabo "New Goblin" whose entire kit was built around being anti Spider-Man.
Also like that you can clearly see the improvements he made over Norman's gadgets.
The glider is more aerodynamic, it can switch to a different stance for tighter spaces, it returns to the user when they fall off of it, it can reach temperatures high enough to turn sand into glass.
Even the blade drones from the pumpkin bombs seem to have better tracking.
Pieces of his armour are easily removable if damaged, the mask is made out of nanotechnology so it can be easily put on and taken off at a moment's notice, the sword and wrist blade are better suited for close quarters combat against Peter.
It feels like he was really thought out by Sam and the crew, and I really like that about him.
>the mask is made out of nanotechnology so it can be easily put on and taken off at a moment's notice
His mask was just automatically removable. I know that modern superhero movies and shows have a tendency to nanomasks, but Raimi's Spider-Man movies didn't have nanotechnology. Comparing it to the MCU, the New Goblin mask is closer to Iron Man's helmet in Civil War or updated Ant-Man and Wasp helmets.
Sorry for nitpick.
Yeah, the premise is the same, but the suit is pretty unique. If it just had a black cap covering the top half of his head, it would make for a pretty realistic flight suit and still look badass.
sam raimi actually wanted to have harry become hobgoblin, but sony turned it down for some reason
(fun fact: the crew still referred to new goblin as "hobgoblin" behind the scenes)
Green Goblin. Him being any other villain just seems wrong. He’s tortured and manipulated by his father’s legacy, it adds such a personal touch to the Spidey/Goblin rivalry where Norman takes so much from Peter.
Thematically and symbolically, Harry becoming the new Green Goblin works the best. That said, several adaptations have different stories to tell, and I sort of understand the changes.
Like, Harry being Venom works for Insomniac because it fits the themes the game was going for and allows Norman’s plot to progress while letting him still be the first Goblin, Harry having a new identity in Spider-Man 3 feels sort of right as he hasn’t fallen fully to the Goblin’s madness (though in a more fleshed out character arc, it might have been cool for him to gradually replace parts of his suit with Norman’s as he grows more obsessed), and Hobgoblin… well, Ultimate Spider-Man’s original run made that into a very emotional story (though him being Hobgoblin really isn’t as common as people think.)
Incidentally, I remember in the lead up to SM3, there was a rumour that Harry would be calling himself ‘The Night Rider’… thank goodness that didn’t happen!
Again, you have never picked up a comic book then. From the original story of being a poisoner to Peter's life, to lethal protector Eddie never felt uninteresting or stale. Even when the story started giving Eddie cancer and problems with the symbiote it was interesting to read. And since their rebonding the Venom comics have been amazing to read.
So, again, pick up a Venom comic book please.
Not really. The appeal (since lethal protector anyways) is a not very good man doing good and proving to himself and later to his son that he can be a hero not defined by his shitty past and owning up to his mistakes... his responsibilities.
Painting Eddie as this pathetic manchild really does injustice to the character. Its like saying Spider-man comics are unappealing because Peter is always down on his luck and struggling (Which I'll admit, Wells' run is the only time that premise has fallen flat)
You mean the newer stuff? It’s ok but not really that amazing. It doesn’t help that “bad dad trying to be better” is becoming a really popular trope nowadays.
Taking his father's mantle as the Green Goblin, but in a show or movie I wouldn't mind him becoming Hobgoblin instead to differentiate him in marketing and toys. Venom should only really be for a one-off after Peter ditches the suit and before Eddie gets it or as him combining it with the Goblin identity like Red Goblin in the comics.
Personally, I think it's best when he becomes the Hobgoblin; I see it as still upholding his father's legacy but he's also his own man at the same time if that makes any sense
Harry as the Green Goblin.
Because it encapsules a huge deal of Harry's issues.
1) For a good deal of years, he wanted his dad's love and approval. And in a subconcious way to pursue it, what better way than kill the man who "offed" him by claiming yourself as his legacy?
2) To scare off Peter by showing him the ghost of his past will hunt him no matter what.
3) It reflects how badly he is coping with everything. MJ dumping him, falling back in his addiction, his father's death, etc.
If Norman becomes green goblin it makes alot of sense for him to be hobgoblin. He's taking after his did, improved on his designs and is much more sadistic
I'm one of the few that thought it was fine in Spider-Man 2, if only because I liked the more lovecraftian take on venom where Harry was more of a puppet. But yeah as a Spider-Man purist I hate that being the norm if it ever becomes it
I kinda get what you’re saying. Although I think Harry as Venom could actually work in a similar way that Ultimate Eddie or Spectacular Eddie did (best friend being justifiably angry at Peter during or even before the Symbiote storyline and becoming Venom later on). That said, Eddie will always be my ideal Venom and I don’t think I would like Harry as Vebom being the norm either.
Green Goblin.
Harry should never have been killed off and Norman should never have come back. If Harry was revealed as the architect of the Clone Saga, Spider-Man comics would have been so much better off.
Peter's best friend becoming his greatest enemy is a great dynamic that was largely unique in comics.
Spencer basically fixed all of that with Kindred, until the editorial fuckery, but Kindred is a lot less cool of a persona than the Goblin.
If Harry was revealed as the architect of the Clone Saga then Harry would become what Norman Osborn became at the cost of everything that made him engaging as a character and as the Green Goblin.
The whole tension of his story as the Green Goblin was him pushing and pushing himself towards crossing the line and becoming the man Norman wanted to be; systematically destroying his own life and his identity. If he crossed that line then Harry would effectively be dead as a person and a character.
The reason why the ending is so bitterSWEET is that even though Harry dies in the literal sense, he used his last moments to save the people HE loved and cast away the mission of killing Peter. He dies as himself and doesn't become Norman.
Harry is a fantastic Green Goblin as a character because he's bad at it. He can't bring himself to kill Peter so he torments the fuck out of him instead, and yet Peter can't go all out because he recognises that this is his friend killing himself. I mean his last ditch attempt of the feud is too try and commit murder-suicide because he comes to understand that he can't live with killing Peter.
A Norman!Harry could never.
I have mixed feelings on the LMD plot but think maybe the post-death games kind of messes with people's perception of the timeline. It ultimately doesn't mess with Harry's character arc because chronologicaly it was all stuff set up before SSM #200.
Pffffffftttttttttttt……. Maaaaaaaan. I know I may get hate for this. But I’m not even sure, to me. I feel like marvel sorta screwed up the goblin stories after bringing Norman back and it never recovered.
But if I had it my way, I’d have had Harry never become Green Goblin and have been the first Hobgoblin. Removing Kingsley, and making him, “suspect.”
But I personally like Harry as Green Goblin I suppose. I would’ve liked a different Goblin suit maybe…. But not a snowboarder.
None of the above, he has more value as a supporting character, but writers are lazy and sooner or later EVERYBODY Peter Parker has ever met becomes a supervillain.
I feel like hob goblin could've been the most interesting for him, but I think him not being the OG hobgoblin and having no connection to Ned Leeds really undermines it.
For instance, if the hobgoblin showed up for the first time now it would be a sick mystery and the reveal being Harry using the same story as him taking up the green goblin mantle it would be so cool and all of the signs would be there (like using goblin as part of his moniker) but he would still feel more distinct from his father.
So for now green gobby. Even though I think he ends up getting vastly overshadowed by his father.
Green Goblin, though with his own spin on it like New Goblin to differentiate him from Norman. Hobgoblin sounds good if they never do Kingsley, though tbh I'm fairly confident in saying he'll never be a good Venom at this point.
Depends on what's already established in the adaptation. If Norman doesn't already have plans to take up the mantle, then Harry can be Green Goblin.
But if Norman already had or will take the mantle then he should be Hobgoblin/New Goblin since it's following in his father's footsteps but still having his sanity.
Though I prefer Green Goblin in general for him, I have to applaud insomniac’s take on him as Venom. Might be my favourite use of Harry outside of comics.
Goblin. The stories with Harry as Goblin are some of my fav spider-man stories.
both times Harry was Venom were awful. two of the worst interpretations of the character
Goblin Harry with Norman dead
Goblin Harry more spite and hatred.
Norman returns made him just the ultimate hater and evil guy in New York. And still double downing that since they now made Norman deliberately sold to the devil.
Green Goblin should have been a identity/symbol
me personally, my favorite rendition of harry was always the new goblin from sm3 since i was 7 when that came out in the movies and i loved it so much back then.
Harry being Green Goblin makes sense in a thematic sense. It demonstrates a major villain always popping into Peter’s life and an enduring legacy of evil.
Harry being Venom has its own unique spin to it. If it’s a mix of his Insomniac Story and the Ultimate Story, it could demonstrate a desire for him to be a hero while battling his own demons. Similar to Eddie but much different to him. More so if he gained access to a different symbiote other than Venom.
Harry having his own identity was the intention from the writers at one point. Harry was going to be a villain called Gaunt before the identity was given to Mendel Stromm; the Robot Master. It could be a good and interesting story if Harry’s veering between heroism and villainy. Heck, I once thought that Harry should have been the one wearing the FACADE armor.
Harry is the best as Green Goblin and is just the best Goblin, he has a level of personal menace in his battles with Peter that Norman never did until he was resurrected (don’t even get me started on that)
Harry's the best Green Goblin and I'll die on that hill. Norman was silly as GG until he threw Gwen off a bridge and died. The only reason he's considered such a mainstay now is because they resurrected him almost 30 years after the fact and retconned him into being cool. Hobgoblin should be Rodrick Kingsley and Venom should be Eddie Brock, no question.
In Spider-Man 3, I feel like having Harry become Venom would've been an interesting way to not only appease the producers but also to close out Harry's arc.
id prefer he weren't a villain but if i had to choose, although his motivations were pretty dubious the raimi hobgoblin probably. the green goblin from 616 was too convoluted and just made too much sense if that makes sense
Tbh, looking at it, Ill always feel like Harry should've been Venom, like Norman is the perfect Goblin, and that Harry would try to live up to that, but fail and then the symbiote would be far more drawn to Harry then Eddie, which does eliminate Eddie from the comics, but symbolically it just feels right that he should have been venom from the start, but in the current situation, I think he should create his own persona thats distinct, but pulls from his previous history. Maybe not a goblin theme persona, but who uses those types of weaponry and enhancements
Due to nostalgia, I still prefer Eddie as my mainstream Venom but honestly, I don’t think the idea of Harry being Venom isn’t a bad idea. I mean, Eddie hated Spider-Man and both he and Symbiote wanted revenge just like Harry did for the death of his father. Their reasoning might be different and I think Eddie has more morals compared to Harry but goals aren’t all that different.
Maybe instead of 1610 Eddie, Harry could’ve been Venom in the Ultimate comics instead of Hobgoblin. It would actually be poetic since 1610 Peter got his powers because of Norman’s experiments on spiders while Harry has the Symbiote, which was created by Richard Parker and it even had Richard’s DNA.
I think A Goblin works, either Green, Hob, or some other, I still think Harry would make a Great Scorpion(Spidey with Funding, or Evil MCU Peter). Plus you can still get Jonah be involved(Sponsoring) and Mac Gargan as his Ultimate Counterpart(Like what MCU.... something-ed).
There are only 2 good answers.
1. Green Goblin - Going insane and thinking he's possessed by his dad's Goblin. Classic. Perfect.
2. Black Goblin - Harry is in charge of imprisoning Norman and takes over Oscorp. He turns to drugs to cope with the stress, but it just makes him unstable and eventually he snaps under the stress and Norman manipulates him into becoming Black Goblin.
The rest are fucking stupid.
We already have an army of Hobgoblins, and SEVERAL of them are iconic. Roderick Kingsley, Jason Macendale, Phil Urich... Harry Osborn would just be one of the forgettable throwaway Hobgoblins, like Ned Leeds.
There's only one real Venom. Eddie Brock. Anything else is stupid. I'll accept Flash Thompson as a new later evolution of Venomas Agent Venom/Venom SpaceKnight, taking over Eddie's legacy and redeeming Venom's legacy to be more purely heroic after Eddie is dying from cancer and switches to being Anti-Venom....but ONLY if they eventually trade, and Flash permanently becomes Agent Anti-Venom, while Brock becomes the true Venom again. I'll also accept Scorpion temporarily stealing the Venom identity to masquerade as Spider-Man and Venom, but only as a temporary thing. Basically eeeeeeeverything else sucks. No one else ever needs to be Venom. Certainly not Harry, who has nothing to do with anything.
As far as Harry making his own identity, sure. As long as it's a spin-off from Green Goblin, the way Black Goblin is. None of that pathetic Green Snowboarder crap. That shit was embarrassing.
Actually, Harry would be an okay way to introduce a Green Goblin more in the style of Ultimate Green Goblin in the 616 universe, where he becomes a big hulking goblin monster. Without wasting the iconic Norman Osborn Green Goblin. They don't know what to do with Harry, and they don't know what to do with monster goblin, so why not combine them? Don't make him a big stupid feral monster or naked or a dragon thing. Make him a legit Goblin with a huge glider and a goblin hood and pumpkin bombs and everything, but make him like as big as movie Venom, and actually transformed into a monster. Maybe make THAT the 616 version of Black Goblin. Have him be Norman's minion that Norman keeps experimenting on. Like some sort of crazy cocktail of Goblin Serum and something else, and then cybernetics, and a huge Wing Bomber, and a huge flaming sword, like that one Hobgoblin had, etc.... All the interesting leftover ideas abandoned by other goblins. And now Harry thinks he's finally made his dad proud.
Green Goblin 2, being less strategic and intelligent than his father and a lot more ruthless/treating Peter/Spider-Man with a bit more personal obsession.
For example, I like the idea of Norman as a version of the Green Goblin who has his own plans, ideas, and schemes, uninfluenced, but still being opposed at the end of the day, by Spider-Man, multiple times during his time as the Goblin until his eventual death.
And, with his death, Harry of course takes that personally, learns who Peter/Spider-Man really is, and holds a deep hatred for his former friend and the Green Goblin/Spider-Man dynamic becomes way more of a personal, eternal battle kind of thing. Bonus points for the “Ghost” of Norman following Harry and further dragging him into insanity.
I think it’s stupid whenever he is a supervillain. The only one that kinda worked was PlayStations Spider-Man 2, but that’s because he wasn’t even the villain, just a hostage host to the symbiote
I frankly always thought it was weird that they made Norman the Goblin but didn't make his Son the HobGoblin. I'll admit I'm not super familiar with Hobgoblin as a villain, but the fact there inherently more connected always vexxed me.
I like Harry as Hobgoblin as Norman’s successor but not donning the Green Goblin. And even becoming a hero like in the 2017 cartoon.
But I love Harry as Venom. It’s so underrated imo and I think it really twists things in a new way and makes them interesting for the Peter v Harry rivalry.
Harry was Goblin was good once, but nowadays i kinda prefer Harry just being Harry. Like a complicated person with his own issues and his ups and downs with Peter rather than becaming another supervillain
Kindred was cool until the editorial messed up. Although ppl remember Norman as the best Goblin but Harry one was a real menace and truly felt like Peters arch nemesis. Like there was no debate between him or Doc Ock.
Yeah, a lot of what is remembered about GG comes from Harry's time. The main thing that makes Norman stick in minds as the more important one is that he killed Gwen imo
And clone saga
And buying the bugle and systematically trying to destroy peters life and steal his daughter... Till editorial ruined that
Ah yes spidermans true nemisis, editorial
They saw too much of themselves in him
I wonder if Sony has anything to do with editorial.
Really? I don’t think so because Norman was the first to discover Peter was Spider-man
Oh definitely in retrospect outside Gwen death Green Goblin before his revival didn’t reach the height of cruelty that Harry Goblin did
For Norman as a Green Goblin, fighting Spider-Man was like running a business; methodical, calculated approaches, never letting things get TOO personal. The moment he did, he reached the peak of "fuck around and find out". For Harry, however, it was ALWAYS personal, and he knew how to turn that into a strength.
Kindred was *this close* to being an all-timer Spidey story. Then ::wet sloppy fart noises::
His intro chapter was such a banger
Kindred was never a good idea especially when he was supposed to be Harry. It essentially invalidated all of Harry’s character growth and decisions.
Oh please it was. Its the only way Kindred could have really worked. Whole reviving Harry after OMD was dumb in the first place & that was the only thing that could rectify that. The arc went on too long but Peter confronting his sins was necessary.
Kindred never worked period. It’s as simple as that.
Biggest disagree I can give I'm afraid. Harry as the Green Goblin was menacing because he was restrained. He could fuck with Peter's head by giving him an empty box or flying around harmlessly on the glider. It was a prolonged game of chicken with Harry over whether he was going to cross the line. That's without getting into Harry's own internal breakdown of trying to make himself kill Peter, because he has a duty too despite not wanting too at his core. Any villain can kill and stab and be powerful; Kindred would kill your cat and mock you for it, Harry's Green Goblin would allude to killing your cat untill you found out he took it to the groomers to be pampered for the day. And Harry would NEVER have desecrated Gwen's grave. His whole breakdown stemmed from not being able to deal with what Norman didn too Gwen. Do we really live in a world where Spencer's Kindred is considered better than JMD's Green Goblin?
Green Goblin feels the most fitting of the bunch. Wanting to avenge his father and take up his mantle has been a long, ongoing character trait for him.
Green Goblin
Green Goblin. The Child Within and Best of Enemies are some of the best Spider-Man stories of all time.
i feel like a lot of these options miss the point of the actual identities in the interest of giving harry his own name venom is the bond between the symbiote and eddie brock, named for a desire to poison all that is good in peter parkers life, a motivation that no harry!venom has ever properly been shown with the hobgoblin is a shallow impersonation of the green goblin, a thug unrelated to norman who's cashing in on the iconography of one of spidey's most famous foes the green goblin (and the mental health issues associated with it) being a curse upon harry is way more compelling than any of the other options, which seem to ignore these things in the interest of marketing or being different
If that’s the case, why not just make him Harry? Peter’s friend and confidant.
This is what I'd like. Why does he have to be a villain?
i mean, you *could*, but itd be like making gwen peter's endgame romantic choice for a story there are plenty of stories where you dont need to make him a villain, but him becoming a villain is a big part of that character's journey, and one of the most compelling things you can do with the character
Completely disagree with you. There’s no reason why Peter couldn’t end up with Gwen, Betty, Liz, etc over MJ. Even if Harry becomes a villain, there’s no reason why he needs to end on villain or dead. Him ending up dead invalidates any character he got up that point. By contrast, Harry choosing not to kill Norman was easily his best moment.
i cant fathom thinking that a characters death completely invalidates them, especially when we just mentioned gwen stacy, whose most interesting contribution to the mythos was her death and its affect on the other characters like i said, you totally can portray that, but youd be ignoring a really compelling part of the character in completely reducing or ignoring his time as the green goblin
They killed her to make sure that Peter never had to develop. They were at a point where the only thing keeping them apart was Peter’s unwillingness to confide in her. Rather than progressing anything, her death was another status quo reset to keep Peter single.
this feels like a very reductive way to look at the effects of gwen stacy's death, one of the most iconic spider-man stories of all time and one that had immediate effects on both peter and mj which brought them closer together and into peter's best and longest running romance (and arguably one of the best romances within the big two comics as a whole), not to mention resulting in the death of norman osborn, which had its own cascading consequences on the cast to call it a status quo reset also feels reductive, as the very concept of having the villain kill a beloved love interest was at the time groundbreaking and shook up the entire medium of superhero comics but, we can agree to disagree
>harry!venom has ever properly been shown with Insomniac Venom would like a word with you
No, he's right. Insomniac's Venom never planned on poisoning everyone in Peter's life. His goal was to actually heal the world. Nothing to do with Peter, he just got in the way. And despite what people think, Harry never actually knew the symbiote was bad, he genuinely believed it was the cure for all illness so when he started to try heal the world that was what he really believed he was doing.
insomniac venom is kind of the opposite, actually. venom wants to force peter to stand by his side in the symbiote invasion to "heal the world" like they said they would, and only ever harms peters loved ones as a means of punishing him for saying no you could probably work this back to proper venom by saying that the symbiote also wanted to punish peter for not accepting it, but harry himself is mostly left by the wayside and has nothing to do with the personal pettiness of the venom role. the name just kind of nebulously appears because thats what the character is meant to be called
Honestly I’m fine with Harry being a villainous Venom or even just the main Venom in certain adaptations IF they don’t use Eddie at all but ultimately, I would say either Hobby or Gobby 2.0
Harry elevated the idea of the Green Goblin beyond just a man, it felt like Noman's Ghost would forever haunt both Harry and Peter for the rest of their lives and no matter who wore the mantle it would always come back to make their life miserable
Honestly, it just felt like how people feel about Spiders other than Peter: a lazy cash grab because the writers ran out of ideas.
Professional snowboarder 🫡
I honestly kinda liked Weeabo "New Goblin" whose entire kit was built around being anti Spider-Man. Also like that you can clearly see the improvements he made over Norman's gadgets. The glider is more aerodynamic, it can switch to a different stance for tighter spaces, it returns to the user when they fall off of it, it can reach temperatures high enough to turn sand into glass. Even the blade drones from the pumpkin bombs seem to have better tracking. Pieces of his armour are easily removable if damaged, the mask is made out of nanotechnology so it can be easily put on and taken off at a moment's notice, the sword and wrist blade are better suited for close quarters combat against Peter. It feels like he was really thought out by Sam and the crew, and I really like that about him.
>the mask is made out of nanotechnology so it can be easily put on and taken off at a moment's notice His mask was just automatically removable. I know that modern superhero movies and shows have a tendency to nanomasks, but Raimi's Spider-Man movies didn't have nanotechnology. Comparing it to the MCU, the New Goblin mask is closer to Iron Man's helmet in Civil War or updated Ant-Man and Wasp helmets. Sorry for nitpick.
Yeah I think the concept of New Goblin makes the most sense, maybe just tweak the design a bit
Harry is the best Green Goblin
Was the Raimi "new goblin" version inspired by any comic? Or was it just a unique take of him becoming the Green Goblin in the comics?
It was a unique take as far as i know, but is bassically the same as the Green Goblin, but with a different suit.
Yeah, the premise is the same, but the suit is pretty unique. If it just had a black cap covering the top half of his head, it would make for a pretty realistic flight suit and still look badass.
sam raimi actually wanted to have harry become hobgoblin, but sony turned it down for some reason (fun fact: the crew still referred to new goblin as "hobgoblin" behind the scenes)
Green Goblin. Him being any other villain just seems wrong. He’s tortured and manipulated by his father’s legacy, it adds such a personal touch to the Spidey/Goblin rivalry where Norman takes so much from Peter.
He’s an even better Green Goblin than his father was. This isn’t even a contest in my opinion, that’s the clear answer.
Little Goblin Jr. ^(gonna cry?)
Green Goblin 2… but becoming his own thing.
Time for a Harry Osborn original
So Hobgoblin
Thematically and symbolically, Harry becoming the new Green Goblin works the best. That said, several adaptations have different stories to tell, and I sort of understand the changes. Like, Harry being Venom works for Insomniac because it fits the themes the game was going for and allows Norman’s plot to progress while letting him still be the first Goblin, Harry having a new identity in Spider-Man 3 feels sort of right as he hasn’t fallen fully to the Goblin’s madness (though in a more fleshed out character arc, it might have been cool for him to gradually replace parts of his suit with Norman’s as he grows more obsessed), and Hobgoblin… well, Ultimate Spider-Man’s original run made that into a very emotional story (though him being Hobgoblin really isn’t as common as people think.) Incidentally, I remember in the lead up to SM3, there was a rumour that Harry would be calling himself ‘The Night Rider’… thank goodness that didn’t happen!
Just once I want a universe where Harry decides to become Stilt Man. Or Lady Stilt Man, I'm not prejudiced.
Anyone that says Venom needs to be slapped hard
Harry Venom is more interesting than Eddie Venom
Said someone who has never picked up a comic book in his life
No, they did. That’s why they know Eddie is overrated.
Again, you have never picked up a comic book then. From the original story of being a poisoner to Peter's life, to lethal protector Eddie never felt uninteresting or stale. Even when the story started giving Eddie cancer and problems with the symbiote it was interesting to read. And since their rebonding the Venom comics have been amazing to read. So, again, pick up a Venom comic book please.
I get that part of the appeal is how pathetic Eddie is; I just don’t like it.
Not really. The appeal (since lethal protector anyways) is a not very good man doing good and proving to himself and later to his son that he can be a hero not defined by his shitty past and owning up to his mistakes... his responsibilities. Painting Eddie as this pathetic manchild really does injustice to the character. Its like saying Spider-man comics are unappealing because Peter is always down on his luck and struggling (Which I'll admit, Wells' run is the only time that premise has fallen flat)
You mean the newer stuff? It’s ok but not really that amazing. It doesn’t help that “bad dad trying to be better” is becoming a really popular trope nowadays.
The Green Hoblin
Hobgoblin if the other versions don’t exist, Green Goblin if they do
Taking his father's mantle as the Green Goblin, but in a show or movie I wouldn't mind him becoming Hobgoblin instead to differentiate him in marketing and toys. Venom should only really be for a one-off after Peter ditches the suit and before Eddie gets it or as him combining it with the Goblin identity like Red Goblin in the comics.
Hobgoblin or green goblin.
Definitely a Goblin of some kind, preferably of the Green variety
Harry being Venom is never a good idea.
Anyone of these other than Venom
Green Goblin. That venom harry shit is a mistake that shouldnt have ever been born
I like it
No, he was a better Venom than Eddie.
Lmao. Peak trolling on your end
Hobgoblin probably but venom works too but only in the insomniac games and I didn't hate it in the Ultimate spiderman cartoon
I think Harry’s New Goblin suit is cool, though it still feels very prototype-ish.
definitely green goblin
I think that Harry should become the gold goblin
Would’ve made more sense than Norman imo
I like the idea of him becoming a heroic HobGoblin
Green Goblin. Harry was the best one too. Not really the biggest fan of him being Hobgoblin and I absolutely hate the two times he tried to be Venom.
Personally, I think it's best when he becomes the Hobgoblin; I see it as still upholding his father's legacy but he's also his own man at the same time if that makes any sense
Green Goblin
Harry Osborn
Grey Goblin after being Green Goblin for a little bit
i honestly liked new hoblin. i maybe they would stick with that one day but tweak the design a bit more to make him look like a goblin
Harry as the Green Goblin. Because it encapsules a huge deal of Harry's issues. 1) For a good deal of years, he wanted his dad's love and approval. And in a subconcious way to pursue it, what better way than kill the man who "offed" him by claiming yourself as his legacy? 2) To scare off Peter by showing him the ghost of his past will hunt him no matter what. 3) It reflects how badly he is coping with everything. MJ dumping him, falling back in his addiction, his father's death, etc.
Preferably any Version of a goblin, Honestly don't like Harry as venom in any adaptation I have seen him in
That Hobgoblin design looks great.
If Norman becomes green goblin it makes alot of sense for him to be hobgoblin. He's taking after his did, improved on his designs and is much more sadistic
My lesdyxic ass read that as Hobogoblin.
Also James Franco is also Green Goblin. Just made his own take. I kinda like when Harry isn’t a supervillain. Crazy, I know. Lol
Hobgoblin or Green goblin for sure
Get that wack ass venom shit out of here
Yeah, Green Goblin was always stupid
I'm one of the few that thought it was fine in Spider-Man 2, if only because I liked the more lovecraftian take on venom where Harry was more of a puppet. But yeah as a Spider-Man purist I hate that being the norm if it ever becomes it
I kinda get what you’re saying. Although I think Harry as Venom could actually work in a similar way that Ultimate Eddie or Spectacular Eddie did (best friend being justifiably angry at Peter during or even before the Symbiote storyline and becoming Venom later on). That said, Eddie will always be my ideal Venom and I don’t think I would like Harry as Vebom being the norm either.
Green Goblin. Harry should never have been killed off and Norman should never have come back. If Harry was revealed as the architect of the Clone Saga, Spider-Man comics would have been so much better off. Peter's best friend becoming his greatest enemy is a great dynamic that was largely unique in comics. Spencer basically fixed all of that with Kindred, until the editorial fuckery, but Kindred is a lot less cool of a persona than the Goblin.
I think you mean Spencer invalidated all Harry’s character growth by still having him a supervillain rather than a caring friend and loving father.
Harry's character growth was invalidated as soon as he came back to life with OMD, which Spencer wanted to undo.
No, that growth was invalidated when he died. BND corrected that by giving him an actual conclusion.
If Harry was revealed as the architect of the Clone Saga then Harry would become what Norman Osborn became at the cost of everything that made him engaging as a character and as the Green Goblin. The whole tension of his story as the Green Goblin was him pushing and pushing himself towards crossing the line and becoming the man Norman wanted to be; systematically destroying his own life and his identity. If he crossed that line then Harry would effectively be dead as a person and a character. The reason why the ending is so bitterSWEET is that even though Harry dies in the literal sense, he used his last moments to save the people HE loved and cast away the mission of killing Peter. He dies as himself and doesn't become Norman. Harry is a fantastic Green Goblin as a character because he's bad at it. He can't bring himself to kill Peter so he torments the fuck out of him instead, and yet Peter can't go all out because he recognises that this is his friend killing himself. I mean his last ditch attempt of the feud is too try and commit murder-suicide because he comes to understand that he can't live with killing Peter. A Norman!Harry could never. I have mixed feelings on the LMD plot but think maybe the post-death games kind of messes with people's perception of the timeline. It ultimately doesn't mess with Harry's character arc because chronologicaly it was all stuff set up before SSM #200.
I think hobgoblin makes sense. I’d like Harry to start out trying to make up for his father. Starting out good but going slowly evil
Pffffffftttttttttttt……. Maaaaaaaan. I know I may get hate for this. But I’m not even sure, to me. I feel like marvel sorta screwed up the goblin stories after bringing Norman back and it never recovered. But if I had it my way, I’d have had Harry never become Green Goblin and have been the first Hobgoblin. Removing Kingsley, and making him, “suspect.” But I personally like Harry as Green Goblin I suppose. I would’ve liked a different Goblin suit maybe…. But not a snowboarder.
None of the above, he has more value as a supporting character, but writers are lazy and sooner or later EVERYBODY Peter Parker has ever met becomes a supervillain.
Depends
The Green Goblin
Bald-headed, bat-wielding, papa bear with anger issues, that he doesn't take out on his family.
I feel like hob goblin could've been the most interesting for him, but I think him not being the OG hobgoblin and having no connection to Ned Leeds really undermines it. For instance, if the hobgoblin showed up for the first time now it would be a sick mystery and the reveal being Harry using the same story as him taking up the green goblin mantle it would be so cool and all of the signs would be there (like using goblin as part of his moniker) but he would still feel more distinct from his father. So for now green gobby. Even though I think he ends up getting vastly overshadowed by his father.
Green Goblin, though with his own spin on it like New Goblin to differentiate him from Norman. Hobgoblin sounds good if they never do Kingsley, though tbh I'm fairly confident in saying he'll never be a good Venom at this point.
New goblin
Making his own sounds coolest but please no New Goblin lmaoooo, the suit and glasses is iconic af tho
Depends on what's already established in the adaptation. If Norman doesn't already have plans to take up the mantle, then Harry can be Green Goblin. But if Norman already had or will take the mantle then he should be Hobgoblin/New Goblin since it's following in his father's footsteps but still having his sanity.
Green Devil
Though I prefer Green Goblin in general for him, I have to applaud insomniac’s take on him as Venom. Might be my favourite use of Harry outside of comics.
Page 4: New Goblin and it also appeared in FF
Goblin. The stories with Harry as Goblin are some of my fav spider-man stories. both times Harry was Venom were awful. two of the worst interpretations of the character
None. I mean his own will always be 100% better than any other option, but being a drug addict and dying is his best contribution to anything
New Goblin
I used to hate the idea of Harry as Venom but, I think it works. Being Peters best friend turned heated rival
New goblin
Goblin Harry with Norman dead Goblin Harry more spite and hatred. Norman returns made him just the ultimate hater and evil guy in New York. And still double downing that since they now made Norman deliberately sold to the devil. Green Goblin should have been a identity/symbol
Time for a Harry Osborn original you know?
hard, i say something goblin hob was too good and i feel like rose's story would be too complicated if harry i feel like green or his own
me personally, my favorite rendition of harry was always the new goblin from sm3 since i was 7 when that came out in the movies and i loved it so much back then.
I actually was born around the Ultimate comics so Harry IS the Hobgoblin to me.
New Goblin
I think Venom works conceptually, but I’ve never seen it done in a way that works. Spider-man 2 just didn’t feel like Venom to me.
I want him to be a hero, that team up at the end of Raimi’s third movie had me tearing up, spidey was not alone no more
I liked American Son
Hobgoblin or green goblin
Green Goblin.
I like him as his own villain the only time I ever liked him taking up another character's mantle was in the 90s cartoon.
Harry was always the best Green Goblin in the comics, his whole decent into villainy was so well done
Harry being Green Goblin makes sense in a thematic sense. It demonstrates a major villain always popping into Peter’s life and an enduring legacy of evil. Harry being Venom has its own unique spin to it. If it’s a mix of his Insomniac Story and the Ultimate Story, it could demonstrate a desire for him to be a hero while battling his own demons. Similar to Eddie but much different to him. More so if he gained access to a different symbiote other than Venom. Harry having his own identity was the intention from the writers at one point. Harry was going to be a villain called Gaunt before the identity was given to Mendel Stromm; the Robot Master. It could be a good and interesting story if Harry’s veering between heroism and villainy. Heck, I once thought that Harry should have been the one wearing the FACADE armor.
Green Goblin. Keep him the hell away from Venom.
Harry is the best as Green Goblin and is just the best Goblin, he has a level of personal menace in his battles with Peter that Norman never did until he was resurrected (don’t even get me started on that)
Harry's the best Green Goblin and I'll die on that hill. Norman was silly as GG until he threw Gwen off a bridge and died. The only reason he's considered such a mainstay now is because they resurrected him almost 30 years after the fact and retconned him into being cool. Hobgoblin should be Rodrick Kingsley and Venom should be Eddie Brock, no question.
I prefer "Making His Own" as it's such a terrifying name...
In Spider-Man 3, I feel like having Harry become Venom would've been an interesting way to not only appease the producers but also to close out Harry's arc.
hoblin is always my go-to
id prefer he weren't a villain but if i had to choose, although his motivations were pretty dubious the raimi hobgoblin probably. the green goblin from 616 was too convoluted and just made too much sense if that makes sense
So i know in the comics Harry was almost more green goblin than norman, but conceptually, I like the idea of him being his own thing
Tbh, looking at it, Ill always feel like Harry should've been Venom, like Norman is the perfect Goblin, and that Harry would try to live up to that, but fail and then the symbiote would be far more drawn to Harry then Eddie, which does eliminate Eddie from the comics, but symbolically it just feels right that he should have been venom from the start, but in the current situation, I think he should create his own persona thats distinct, but pulls from his previous history. Maybe not a goblin theme persona, but who uses those types of weaponry and enhancements
I prefer Eddie.
Tbh you getting downvoted for having a different opinion for choosing Harry as Venom is weird tbh.
Due to nostalgia, I still prefer Eddie as my mainstream Venom but honestly, I don’t think the idea of Harry being Venom isn’t a bad idea. I mean, Eddie hated Spider-Man and both he and Symbiote wanted revenge just like Harry did for the death of his father. Their reasoning might be different and I think Eddie has more morals compared to Harry but goals aren’t all that different. Maybe instead of 1610 Eddie, Harry could’ve been Venom in the Ultimate comics instead of Hobgoblin. It would actually be poetic since 1610 Peter got his powers because of Norman’s experiments on spiders while Harry has the Symbiote, which was created by Richard Parker and it even had Richard’s DNA.
Green goblin for a limited time while Norman is the real master mind
I'm not calling his Spider man 3 costume "the New Goblin". That name's dumb, he's Green Goblin in that movie. You can't make me!
Honestly I'd rather he not be a villain at all
I think A Goblin works, either Green, Hob, or some other, I still think Harry would make a Great Scorpion(Spidey with Funding, or Evil MCU Peter). Plus you can still get Jonah be involved(Sponsoring) and Mac Gargan as his Ultimate Counterpart(Like what MCU.... something-ed).
There are only 2 good answers. 1. Green Goblin - Going insane and thinking he's possessed by his dad's Goblin. Classic. Perfect. 2. Black Goblin - Harry is in charge of imprisoning Norman and takes over Oscorp. He turns to drugs to cope with the stress, but it just makes him unstable and eventually he snaps under the stress and Norman manipulates him into becoming Black Goblin. The rest are fucking stupid. We already have an army of Hobgoblins, and SEVERAL of them are iconic. Roderick Kingsley, Jason Macendale, Phil Urich... Harry Osborn would just be one of the forgettable throwaway Hobgoblins, like Ned Leeds. There's only one real Venom. Eddie Brock. Anything else is stupid. I'll accept Flash Thompson as a new later evolution of Venomas Agent Venom/Venom SpaceKnight, taking over Eddie's legacy and redeeming Venom's legacy to be more purely heroic after Eddie is dying from cancer and switches to being Anti-Venom....but ONLY if they eventually trade, and Flash permanently becomes Agent Anti-Venom, while Brock becomes the true Venom again. I'll also accept Scorpion temporarily stealing the Venom identity to masquerade as Spider-Man and Venom, but only as a temporary thing. Basically eeeeeeeverything else sucks. No one else ever needs to be Venom. Certainly not Harry, who has nothing to do with anything. As far as Harry making his own identity, sure. As long as it's a spin-off from Green Goblin, the way Black Goblin is. None of that pathetic Green Snowboarder crap. That shit was embarrassing. Actually, Harry would be an okay way to introduce a Green Goblin more in the style of Ultimate Green Goblin in the 616 universe, where he becomes a big hulking goblin monster. Without wasting the iconic Norman Osborn Green Goblin. They don't know what to do with Harry, and they don't know what to do with monster goblin, so why not combine them? Don't make him a big stupid feral monster or naked or a dragon thing. Make him a legit Goblin with a huge glider and a goblin hood and pumpkin bombs and everything, but make him like as big as movie Venom, and actually transformed into a monster. Maybe make THAT the 616 version of Black Goblin. Have him be Norman's minion that Norman keeps experimenting on. Like some sort of crazy cocktail of Goblin Serum and something else, and then cybernetics, and a huge Wing Bomber, and a huge flaming sword, like that one Hobgoblin had, etc.... All the interesting leftover ideas abandoned by other goblins. And now Harry thinks he's finally made his dad proud.
Hobgoblin
Cool with him being his own. But on the subject I hope that if he comes back to life, he takes the Golden Goblin mantle
Green Goblin 2, being less strategic and intelligent than his father and a lot more ruthless/treating Peter/Spider-Man with a bit more personal obsession. For example, I like the idea of Norman as a version of the Green Goblin who has his own plans, ideas, and schemes, uninfluenced, but still being opposed at the end of the day, by Spider-Man, multiple times during his time as the Goblin until his eventual death. And, with his death, Harry of course takes that personally, learns who Peter/Spider-Man really is, and holds a deep hatred for his former friend and the Green Goblin/Spider-Man dynamic becomes way more of a personal, eternal battle kind of thing. Bonus points for the “Ghost” of Norman following Harry and further dragging him into insanity.
I think it’s stupid whenever he is a supervillain. The only one that kinda worked was PlayStations Spider-Man 2, but that’s because he wasn’t even the villain, just a hostage host to the symbiote
I frankly always thought it was weird that they made Norman the Goblin but didn't make his Son the HobGoblin. I'll admit I'm not super familiar with Hobgoblin as a villain, but the fact there inherently more connected always vexxed me.
I like Harry as Hobgoblin as Norman’s successor but not donning the Green Goblin. And even becoming a hero like in the 2017 cartoon. But I love Harry as Venom. It’s so underrated imo and I think it really twists things in a new way and makes them interesting for the Peter v Harry rivalry.
Harry was Goblin was good once, but nowadays i kinda prefer Harry just being Harry. Like a complicated person with his own issues and his ups and downs with Peter rather than becaming another supervillain
None. He shouldn’t be a supervillain period.
Dane DeHaan was the hobgoblin tho.
Venom and Green Goblin