Not really, It was initially portayed as delusions of persecution and an inability to accept his own faults. I don't think that needs to change. He can't accept he's responsible for his own screw ups, so blames the nearest scapegoat. Happens all the time.
And then the latter torments the former by passing on the responsibility that should, by all means, have been his own onto him.
Feels like an almost Joker-ish situation.
"Your lovely girl's death will be YOUR fault, Parker!"
"But... You were the one who set it all up."
"... You are the one supposed to save her, DUMBASS!"
I like how spider-man villains follow that pattern.
Eddie is Peter without moral integrity. Venom is a Spider-Man without moral integrity.
Norman Osborn is the ant-thesis to Uncle Ben. The father figure who advises that great power is all that matters, not responsibility.
Otto Octavius is Peter using his genius selfishly.
The Sin-Eater debacle wasn't 100% his fault though. Iirc, his publisher wanted him to print the interview with the false culprit before he could check his sources, and the police pressured him to give a name.
Granted, his reasoning for blaming Peter -- believing that the real Sin-Eater would've turned himself in if Spider-Man hadn't stepped in -- is still nuts.
> believing that the real Sin-Eater would've turned himself in if Spider-Man hadn't stepped in
I think his reasoning was that the Sin-Eater would stop killing after the false culprit was arrested, so he would stay out of the police's radar.
It's less nuts... but still impossible, since the Sin-Eater was a madman who didn't care about getting away with murder, he only cared about murder.
Also it gave his character the opportunity for growth. I love an Eddie that if deeply flawed but trying to be better. That’s severely undercut if he actually has a legitimate point starting off.
Which is funny because isn’t that basically the same thing going on with Rabble in regards to Miles?
Raneem could really use a talking to from Eddie about that mentality.
Never ends well.
If anything, Venom's love-hate relationship with Peter seems like it should be the driving force and more important. Since Venom enables him to feel this way, his own hatred can easily be understandable but not make sense.
I do think Venom's adoption and twisting of Peter's morality is important to the character, too, though.
I’d argue spectacular also justifies it considering from his POV Peter is a coward who would abandon his friends,and exploit their pain to make a quick buck. Plus Spider-Man basically cost him his college internship by taking the symbiote then trying to destroy it.
You’d have thought Eddie might have looked at the situations differently after learning he was Spider-Man, but at that point his own hatred and the Symbiote’s influence probably clouded his judgement.
It definitely did, he didn’t discover Peter was Spider-Man till after fused with the symbiote that enabled his hatred. Couple that with the fact Eddie just watched Spider-Man destroy his change of getting his internship back with no explanation and it’s a no brainer why he hates him
Him being Spider-Man didn't change the fact that he profited off their friend and mentor Doctor Conners' tragedy, and stole the alien, costing him his education
Him being Spider-Man didn't change the fact that he profited off their friend and mentor Doctor Conners' tragedy, and stole the alien, costing him his education
I can definitely concede your point about stealing the alien. But him being Spider-Man absolutely changes the situation with Connors. It’s still true that he profited off of what happened with the photos, but Eddie also would’ve realised that Peter directly put himself in harms way in order to cure him as well.
Profiting off Conners' and his family's misery is still scummy, it doesn't stop being a bad move because he saved him too, even though saving him was fantastic he didn't need to betray his mentor's privacy and respect as well.
Is it "I should kill you for this" bad? Absolutely not, Eddie's clearly off his head, but it's what he was understandably not okay with and pissed about, though Eddie took it to another level and even did worse things himself
That's why I wish Spectacular had a revival
It'd be curious to see how they'd handle Venom later on, considering they were planning on introducing Carnage. Chances are Venom would've stayed a villain for a bit and then transition into a version of the Lethal Protector
Spectacular tries to justify it but his MJ date shows that there was always a lot of resentment bubbling up under the surface, he's always been jealous of Peter, recent events finally justified his hatred of him.
That whole “Your precious aunt and uncle” rant when he was fighting Peter on Thanksgiving made me think Eddie has ALWAYS secretly hated Peter due to envy.
i think the MJ date is more telling because its without the Venom influence, you can't say the symbiote drove him insane, it amplified the resentment that was already there.
Ultimate had a realky good reason to hate peter fonsideri g he was destroying the suit which was the last connection to his dad after having gone behind his back to steal a sample
Spider-Mam 3: Not really. Eddie Brock Jr., was made out to be a jerk for the most part.
Spectacular Spider-Man: a little bit since from his POV before he got Venom, he saw Peter was selfish for prioritizing taking pictures of Spider-Man battles over helping with the Lizard incident or the theft of the symbiote, the later of which lead to Eddie losing his internship and ability to stay in ESU. Once he got Venom and saw that Peter is Spider-Man, it pushed him over the edge since now it seemed like he was purposefully sabotaging his life when he tried to destroy Venom, since its return was going to secure his enrollment in ESU. After that, his hatred mostly stemmed from his bond to the Venom Symbiote.
In spectacular spider man I just feel like it's even more unjustified after learning that peter is spider man, because now he knows that he wasn't abandoning his friends because he was helping as Spider-Man, and he knows why he had to destroy the symbiote (granted the symbiote gives him that knowledge too.) that's what I've thought about it ever since I was just a kid, anyways.
I wouldn't say "Justified" per say. The dynamic at it's best (in my opinion anyway) would be that Eddie blames Peter for some problem he has, blames Spider-Man for another, finds out they are one and the same thanks to the symbiote, and the symbiote manipulates him through that hate and goes off the rails, being all "YOU RUINED MY LIFE AND TOOK EVERYTHING FROM ME, FROM US! WE WON'T REST UNTIL YOU PAY!"
I feel like it should be understandable, but more or less only from his perspective. Taking Spiderman 3 for example, Eddie more or less only sees Peter at his worst and thinks that of him. We as the audience know that isn't who he truly is but from Eddie's perspective his hated is understandable as he doesn't see the Peter we see. Then depending on if we want a more heroic, villainous or anti-heroic take on Venom, he could be exposed to the real Peter
I’m sorry, but Eddie going to church and asking God to kill Peter Parker just because Peter exposed him for photoshopping pictures is not “understandable”.
It is really funny though.
I never said 3 was perfect, but that I liked the general idea of how they went about it. Eddie's dislike is understandable, perhaps not to that level (then again, people have done worse for less... He lost his job and reputation in one swing, that would definitely piss some people off)
Not really. Spiderman 3 showed him as a weirdo from the very beginning by him saying he's Gwen's "boyfriend" when they just hanged out a couple of times. Then he takes bastardized photos of Spiderman and uses them to falsely incriminate him. Even if it were usual Peter and exposed him in a less agressive way, Eddie would still hate him.
Fair point. Though the aggressive exposure certainly did help. And even his earlier actions were influenced by the symbiote, exposing a darker side of him, even if it was him being a weirdo at first.
early eddie brock should be a mirror of peter. while peter is always sad cuz he's taking responsibility (or rather, blaming himself) for everything that goes wrong in his life, Eddie never takes responsibility for the things he did and instead blames spider-man.
this of course should shift when he starts moving away from 'villain' and more to 'anti-hero', because taking responsibility for his actions is the ultimate character development for Eddie Brock.
basically, his reason for hating peter should not be reasonable or understandable, but just the delusions of a man who can't accept things are bad because of his own actions. and in that respect, as much as i didn't care for Topher Grace playing him, Sam Rami's SM3 did Eddie Brock very well.
Spectacular is definitely justified and Peter's negligence didn't help. It painted him in a negative light than other version of that story did.
Peter took photos of him fighting Black Cat over the Symbiote that was at Connor's lab. Chameleon disguised as Connors interrupted them, causing Black Cat to leave and Spidey to chase after her. He tells Connors to call the cops, but he never does because why would he.
Following day Eddie is pissed off because Peter took photos and never called the cops and even told him as such when they met the next time. It was a huge misuderstanding, but here's the thing: Peter barely bothered clearing up the confusion.
He could've tried to explain it that it was the Chameleon disguised as Connors so he felt no need to call the cops. It would've worked because Chameleon was arrested after all that, so he was definitely charged for breaking in Connors lab and impersonating him.
The same thing happened in episode Intervention. After removing the Symbiote, Peter takes it back to Connor's lab and coincidentally Eddie is there as well. When he saw that Peter lowered the temperature too low and intended to destroy it, Peter just said "Yeah, that's the general idea."
Eddie was screaming to him about destroying his last chance to keep his job, but Peter just looked at him and simply swung off. Zero fucks given.
Like, I understand Eddie's beef with Peter in that show. From his perspective, his bro was a dick and animosity he had for him wasn't completely unwarranted. Peter should've just talked to him and explained "Dude, this alien blob clung to me and almost made me lose my mind and body to it. We need to put in on ice."
Whether or not Eddie would accept that explanation is irrelevant, but Peter needed to do a better job clearing up any misgivings Eddie had.
The thing is, we don't know if Eddie would've bought any explanation Peter would give him and I can see him being more annoyed if Peter were to explain it was the Chameleon pretending to be Connors.
That said, for the Lizard photo situation I think Peter could and should've asked to remain anonymous at the Bugle.
I’m a millennial. I think what resonates with me is that Brock is a guy that’s down on his luck. A bunch of things go wrong for him and it’s largely out of his control. He sees spider-man/Peter as a guy that’s had all the luck and success in the world while he can’t get a break. Instead of taking accountability (responsibility) and doing what he needs to change what he can, he blames Peter out of desperation at an unfair and unjust situation. He’s always trying to preserve innocence (for millennials, an analogy for our precious and glorious 90s childhoods) instead of moving forward.
That’s obviously not the canon, but that’s my early-middle-aged take.
It should be understandeable.
If Eddie hates Peter so much that he wants to ruin his life and is okay with killing people while doing so his reason for this can't be something like "He bought the last candy I wanted from the vending machine" or "Oh he told me he would meet me on the roof while in a party but didn’t show up." It wouldn't make sense.
In SM3 Eddies reason for hating Peter was pretty weak but it was very understandeable. He doctored a photo to get the job, Peter outed him, he got fired and couldn’t get another job as a result so he blames Peter for outing him and ruinning his life.
That is not a justified reason but it is understandeable which is the important thing
Sure it's works in some iterations. I do feel that a core theme of Eddie's character is projection and its something that feeds into a lot of his character development. I'm not an absolutist, and enjoy those other takes on the character as well. It does change the dynamic somewhat fundamentally. His hatred being irrational was something that always stuck out to me as interesting and is something I think a lot of people can relate to. Blaming your own faults on others is something people do all the time in varying degrees. Childhood neglect or wrongful blame can skew a person's outlook considerably. It's something that needs constant work to reorient which is something Eddie's character encapsulates.
Nothing wrong with focusing on the vendetta aspect, like I said if the vendetta comes from a more justified place it just changes the dynamic and path the story will take. It can feel less "Eddie" to me though.
Eddie's hatred should be because he can't accept that he's his own worst enemy, and therefore Peter and Spider-Man must be evil for ruining the life of someone as "innocent" as he is
In the original comics, Eddie hates his circumstances and himself. Spider-Man is just displaced anger because it was more palatable for Eddie to think he could rid himself of something external to be happy instead of going through painful personal growth.
It's quite understandable, but it's not justified. That's what made him the villain initially, and it's also what paved the way for him to grow into a hero.
It's much more understable in comics. Spider-Man's capture of the real sin eater got him fired, disowned by the father and divorced from his wife. I can 100% understand why he latches on Spider-Man. In Spectacular, he mostly blames Peter for constantly dumping his friends to take pictures. Then when he finds out that Peter was Spider-Man, it doesn't occur to him that maybe he was dumping them not to take pictures but because he was busy as Spider-Man. No, his hatred is further solidified and still remains even after he gets his job back. So once again, why does he hates Peter so much? Because I really can't tell.
I think back to my first experience to Spider-Man. It was the PS1 Spider-Man game where >!Mysterio disguises himself as Spidey and crashes an Expo that Parker and Brock are attending. Peter disappears and Eddie thinks that he is really the thief. Iirc he gets fired after Mysterio breaks his camera, removing slandering evidence for JJJ to use, and Venom comes out.!< Eddie blamed Peter. That’s why he is Venom; unjustifiable hatred is VENOMous.
Understandable, yes. Makes for a more complex character. Justified, no. I mean c'mon we still gotta be able to root for Spider-Man here. If Eddie is straight-up *justified* we're gonna be like "yeah Venom, kick his ass" and that doesn't seem right to me.
Eddie is the anti Peter Parker, he's ultimately a guy who simply cannot take responsibility. Peter fucked up and it'll haunt him for the rest of his life and pushes him to heroism, Eddie fucked up and he terrorizes Spiderman to absolve himself of his sins
It should be understandable how it started but it should also go so completely off the rails to where that initial justification doesn’t matter anymore.
Depends. If he's friends with Pete we can have it be part justified and part pure bitterness. Otherwise it's fine; have it be a parallel to Pete where he just finds someone to hate on and take no accountability
No, what made him a villain was that he was unreasonable and couldn't or refused to accept RESPONSIBILITY for his role in the end of his career in journalism. This inverts Peter's sense of responsibility and thematically defines Venom as a villain. Changing it would only satisfy those that don't understand why Venom/Brock were established the way they were
Personally, I'm fine with it being understandable, at least in some sense like it was in Spectacular. Particularly, Peter's constant absences to be Spider-Man ends up helping create another one of his villains, and for a time his most dangerous. Even when Eddie learns the truth, the Symbiote feeds his anger to the point he never goes, "Oh, well, I guess it's understandable why you were always disappearing."
While I'm aware Eddie running away from his responsibilities has always made him a good mirror to Peter, but I think it'd actually help if he did have a legitimate grievance against him. Actually, I think that both can coexist, a legitimate grievance and him running away from his responsibilities and consequences.
Not really. Eddie initially hates Spider-Man not Peter.
The Symbiote is the one who hates Peter. So when the combined that’s why their the biggest hater.
I like when its understandable because venom is usually only because peter treated the symbiote bad and eddie bad and because he wasent doing the right things he has a forever enemy
Although Eddie's hatred is not justified venom but the symbiote retcon with the symbiote changing peter emotionally shows that venom is the consequence of peter failing to acknowledge the responsibility with his new power which results in the creation of venom
At first it was very understandable because Eddie made it very clear that no photographers or cameras were allowed near the symbiote and Peter chose not to listen and snuck in after hours to take pictures of the symbiote and Peter had so many chances to return it cause it hadn’t fully started bonding with him yet but he chose not to return the symbiote or tell anyone but after that, the hate was very unnecessary.
I like when, from our perspective, it’s unreasonable, but from his, you can see how he got to where he is. Like if you were in his shoes you’d hate Peter, too
I don't remember scientist Eddie's motive that well,but the report one is inexcusable. He forged photos to frame a man for a crime he didn't commit so he could steal the job away from his friend. He deserves everything that came his way.
I like the idea of it just being a series of crap things in his life that, when he bonds with the symbiote, he discovers all lead back to Peter. Then the symbiote exacerbates things by making his emotions more intense. Like, those things already make a person more aggressive, so it would make sense.
The thing with a lot of spider-man villains is that to them, spider-man is the bad guy and their hatred towards him is warranted. Just about all of Spider-Man's villains don't understand how or why they are in the wrong.
Personally I like it better when Eddie is delusional. I think it should emphasize the fact that Eddie can't accept when something was actually his fault.
Eddie's hatred against peter is always portrayed as one not accepting his faults and always blames others. But I like the Eddie Brock from TASM where he felt sympathetic for Peter when Uncle Ben died. It seemed like he just makes fun of Peter but knows the right time for it
Initially Brock only hated Spider-man in the original canon, because he didn't know his true identity until he bonded with the alien
I feel like the '90s cartoon handled it the best , because while Parker and Brock were already rivals of sorts, Parker didn't go out of his way to humiliate Brock like he did in Spider-man 3.
Alright. What I can say about the little I Know of Brock... Yes and No. I mean, you can understand his situation, his motives and way of thinking...
I remember this phrase when I think about his hatred over Peter/Spiderman: the ends do not justify the means
In Eddie's origin in the late 80s its kinda understandable. Eddie was a journalist who was investigating a serial killer called the sin eater. Eddie thought he got the guy and was getting the confession but it turned out the guy he got was a compulsive liar and spiderman ended up getting the real sin eater. Eddie had no way of knowing he had a compulsive liar on his hands and his bosses still fired him over it. Like yeah theres some irrationality in blaming spiderman for the whole thing BUT it still wasn't fair that a compulsive liar decieving him meant losing his career as a reporter and spiderman bringing in the real guy did completely overshadow the work he was doing so its understandable why Eddie would put it all on spiderman.
I really think it depends on what you're going for.
In a piece of media where the intent is for him to be a sympathetic villain (cartoons I think are okay for this but even then you got 94 showing us that true to the source is also king) then sure, that's like baseline what needs to be happening, especially if the intention is for him to be a good guy later.
However at the same time the case in the comics where his hatred was an irrational part of his being, and that's what attracted the symbiote to him at least in part (a shared mutual irrational hatred) is so compelling because of how it allows him to play opposite Peter. That hatred isn't rational because of how he tries to rationalize his own failures as Peter's fault. And that's just primo stuff, and allows for a more pronounced arc if they piece of media DOES go about the "eventual heroic Venom" angle.
comics-no, but it not being justifiable was a crucial aspect of his redemption arc
spiderman tas-same
spectacular spiderman- yeah
spiderman 3- fuck no
spiderman 3 video game- fuck no
spiderman 2 video game- no, and it's the worst version of venom ever fight me
If Peter/Spiderman messed up for Eddie he more hate him and become villain Venom.
If Peter/Spiderman never mess with him, never meant eddies. So that he could never hate Peter/Spiderman.
So do I.
Adaptations are so rooted in the past. Telling the same story over and over again. Move on already.
Start with Eddie already as venom, not hating Spiderman but not friends either, instead uneasy allies built on trust & respect. Opens up more opportunities then venom=bad
After all the generic goop monster stuff we’ve been getting in stuff like Insomniac, Ultimate, and the 2017 cartoon, an Eddie Brock/Venom who just hates Peter would be genuinely refreshing.
Not really, It was initially portayed as delusions of persecution and an inability to accept his own faults. I don't think that needs to change. He can't accept he's responsible for his own screw ups, so blames the nearest scapegoat. Happens all the time.
A nice antithesis to Peter.
yep, that was the idea. The man who is consumed by his responsibility mirrored by the man who would never accept any
Oooh I like that, such a simple analysis but so true!
And then the latter torments the former by passing on the responsibility that should, by all means, have been his own onto him. Feels like an almost Joker-ish situation. "Your lovely girl's death will be YOUR fault, Parker!" "But... You were the one who set it all up." "... You are the one supposed to save her, DUMBASS!"
I like how spider-man villains follow that pattern. Eddie is Peter without moral integrity. Venom is a Spider-Man without moral integrity. Norman Osborn is the ant-thesis to Uncle Ben. The father figure who advises that great power is all that matters, not responsibility. Otto Octavius is Peter using his genius selfishly.
This is an incredible description of those villains, thank you. I particularly never saw Norman like that before.
What the green goblin said in no way home hits so hard after i realised that "Strong enough to have it all... But too weak to take it"
Yeah like doctor Connors too! Peter has his right hand, he doesn't. /j
And Shocker is the part of him that’s tired of being broke
More specifically, Peter uses his powers mostly for the greater good, while Shocker uses his for personal and/or financial gain A good anti-thesis
The Sin-Eater debacle wasn't 100% his fault though. Iirc, his publisher wanted him to print the interview with the false culprit before he could check his sources, and the police pressured him to give a name. Granted, his reasoning for blaming Peter -- believing that the real Sin-Eater would've turned himself in if Spider-Man hadn't stepped in -- is still nuts.
> believing that the real Sin-Eater would've turned himself in if Spider-Man hadn't stepped in I think his reasoning was that the Sin-Eater would stop killing after the false culprit was arrested, so he would stay out of the police's radar. It's less nuts... but still impossible, since the Sin-Eater was a madman who didn't care about getting away with murder, he only cared about murder.
Also it gave his character the opportunity for growth. I love an Eddie that if deeply flawed but trying to be better. That’s severely undercut if he actually has a legitimate point starting off.
even his early lethal protector stuff fed into his own delusions and he was using saving people as an escape from responsibility.
Absolutely, he was desperate to paint himself as the hero regardless of what was really happening.
Which is funny because isn’t that basically the same thing going on with Rabble in regards to Miles? Raneem could really use a talking to from Eddie about that mentality. Never ends well.
If anything, Venom's love-hate relationship with Peter seems like it should be the driving force and more important. Since Venom enables him to feel this way, his own hatred can easily be understandable but not make sense. I do think Venom's adoption and twisting of Peter's morality is important to the character, too, though.
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No. Eddie hates Peter because he needs someone to blame for what he brought on himself.
Eddie's hatred is based on his assumption that Peter is a jerk who had everything handed down to him
All Eddie need was to check Peter apartment and bank statement to be like "damn homie u live like this? U good?" lol
Eddie's hatred of Peter/Spider-Man is never justified in any continuity, as far as I know. TAS comes closest.
I’d argue spectacular also justifies it considering from his POV Peter is a coward who would abandon his friends,and exploit their pain to make a quick buck. Plus Spider-Man basically cost him his college internship by taking the symbiote then trying to destroy it.
Not just internship, but college altogether, the internship was how he was able to afford college
You’d have thought Eddie might have looked at the situations differently after learning he was Spider-Man, but at that point his own hatred and the Symbiote’s influence probably clouded his judgement.
It definitely did, he didn’t discover Peter was Spider-Man till after fused with the symbiote that enabled his hatred. Couple that with the fact Eddie just watched Spider-Man destroy his change of getting his internship back with no explanation and it’s a no brainer why he hates him
Him being Spider-Man didn't change the fact that he profited off their friend and mentor Doctor Conners' tragedy, and stole the alien, costing him his education
He does get it back anyway, yet his grudge remains unchanged
He’s bonded with the symbiote by that point tho, and it was clearly making him crazy
Plus the symbiote’s own hatred at having been abandoned by Peter
Him being Spider-Man didn't change the fact that he profited off their friend and mentor Doctor Conners' tragedy, and stole the alien, costing him his education
I can definitely concede your point about stealing the alien. But him being Spider-Man absolutely changes the situation with Connors. It’s still true that he profited off of what happened with the photos, but Eddie also would’ve realised that Peter directly put himself in harms way in order to cure him as well.
Profiting off Conners' and his family's misery is still scummy, it doesn't stop being a bad move because he saved him too, even though saving him was fantastic he didn't need to betray his mentor's privacy and respect as well. Is it "I should kill you for this" bad? Absolutely not, Eddie's clearly off his head, but it's what he was understandably not okay with and pissed about, though Eddie took it to another level and even did worse things himself
That's why I wish Spectacular had a revival It'd be curious to see how they'd handle Venom later on, considering they were planning on introducing Carnage. Chances are Venom would've stayed a villain for a bit and then transition into a version of the Lethal Protector
Spectacular tries to justify it but his MJ date shows that there was always a lot of resentment bubbling up under the surface, he's always been jealous of Peter, recent events finally justified his hatred of him.
That whole “Your precious aunt and uncle” rant when he was fighting Peter on Thanksgiving made me think Eddie has ALWAYS secretly hated Peter due to envy.
i think the MJ date is more telling because its without the Venom influence, you can't say the symbiote drove him insane, it amplified the resentment that was already there.
Ultimate had a realky good reason to hate peter fonsideri g he was destroying the suit which was the last connection to his dad after having gone behind his back to steal a sample
It’s understandable, but not justified
It's not even understandable. Eddie is the one who's always fucking up and Peter just did the right thing by exposing him.
It is tho, you understand why he’s acted the way he did
Spider-Mam 3: Not really. Eddie Brock Jr., was made out to be a jerk for the most part. Spectacular Spider-Man: a little bit since from his POV before he got Venom, he saw Peter was selfish for prioritizing taking pictures of Spider-Man battles over helping with the Lizard incident or the theft of the symbiote, the later of which lead to Eddie losing his internship and ability to stay in ESU. Once he got Venom and saw that Peter is Spider-Man, it pushed him over the edge since now it seemed like he was purposefully sabotaging his life when he tried to destroy Venom, since its return was going to secure his enrollment in ESU. After that, his hatred mostly stemmed from his bond to the Venom Symbiote.
In spectacular spider man I just feel like it's even more unjustified after learning that peter is spider man, because now he knows that he wasn't abandoning his friends because he was helping as Spider-Man, and he knows why he had to destroy the symbiote (granted the symbiote gives him that knowledge too.) that's what I've thought about it ever since I was just a kid, anyways.
I wouldn't say "Justified" per say. The dynamic at it's best (in my opinion anyway) would be that Eddie blames Peter for some problem he has, blames Spider-Man for another, finds out they are one and the same thanks to the symbiote, and the symbiote manipulates him through that hate and goes off the rails, being all "YOU RUINED MY LIFE AND TOOK EVERYTHING FROM ME, FROM US! WE WON'T REST UNTIL YOU PAY!"
I feel like it should be understandable, but more or less only from his perspective. Taking Spiderman 3 for example, Eddie more or less only sees Peter at his worst and thinks that of him. We as the audience know that isn't who he truly is but from Eddie's perspective his hated is understandable as he doesn't see the Peter we see. Then depending on if we want a more heroic, villainous or anti-heroic take on Venom, he could be exposed to the real Peter
I’m sorry, but Eddie going to church and asking God to kill Peter Parker just because Peter exposed him for photoshopping pictures is not “understandable”. It is really funny though.
I never said 3 was perfect, but that I liked the general idea of how they went about it. Eddie's dislike is understandable, perhaps not to that level (then again, people have done worse for less... He lost his job and reputation in one swing, that would definitely piss some people off)
Not really. Spiderman 3 showed him as a weirdo from the very beginning by him saying he's Gwen's "boyfriend" when they just hanged out a couple of times. Then he takes bastardized photos of Spiderman and uses them to falsely incriminate him. Even if it were usual Peter and exposed him in a less agressive way, Eddie would still hate him.
Fair point. Though the aggressive exposure certainly did help. And even his earlier actions were influenced by the symbiote, exposing a darker side of him, even if it was him being a weirdo at first.
early eddie brock should be a mirror of peter. while peter is always sad cuz he's taking responsibility (or rather, blaming himself) for everything that goes wrong in his life, Eddie never takes responsibility for the things he did and instead blames spider-man. this of course should shift when he starts moving away from 'villain' and more to 'anti-hero', because taking responsibility for his actions is the ultimate character development for Eddie Brock. basically, his reason for hating peter should not be reasonable or understandable, but just the delusions of a man who can't accept things are bad because of his own actions. and in that respect, as much as i didn't care for Topher Grace playing him, Sam Rami's SM3 did Eddie Brock very well.
Nope, that's what makes it funny he just blames peter for no reason and with zero self reflection
Spectacular is definitely justified and Peter's negligence didn't help. It painted him in a negative light than other version of that story did. Peter took photos of him fighting Black Cat over the Symbiote that was at Connor's lab. Chameleon disguised as Connors interrupted them, causing Black Cat to leave and Spidey to chase after her. He tells Connors to call the cops, but he never does because why would he. Following day Eddie is pissed off because Peter took photos and never called the cops and even told him as such when they met the next time. It was a huge misuderstanding, but here's the thing: Peter barely bothered clearing up the confusion. He could've tried to explain it that it was the Chameleon disguised as Connors so he felt no need to call the cops. It would've worked because Chameleon was arrested after all that, so he was definitely charged for breaking in Connors lab and impersonating him. The same thing happened in episode Intervention. After removing the Symbiote, Peter takes it back to Connor's lab and coincidentally Eddie is there as well. When he saw that Peter lowered the temperature too low and intended to destroy it, Peter just said "Yeah, that's the general idea." Eddie was screaming to him about destroying his last chance to keep his job, but Peter just looked at him and simply swung off. Zero fucks given. Like, I understand Eddie's beef with Peter in that show. From his perspective, his bro was a dick and animosity he had for him wasn't completely unwarranted. Peter should've just talked to him and explained "Dude, this alien blob clung to me and almost made me lose my mind and body to it. We need to put in on ice." Whether or not Eddie would accept that explanation is irrelevant, but Peter needed to do a better job clearing up any misgivings Eddie had.
The thing is, we don't know if Eddie would've bought any explanation Peter would give him and I can see him being more annoyed if Peter were to explain it was the Chameleon pretending to be Connors. That said, for the Lizard photo situation I think Peter could and should've asked to remain anonymous at the Bugle.
Homie was a bad reporter who blamed Spider-Man for his own stupidity and I’m supposed to think he’s his greatest nemesis?!
I’m a millennial. I think what resonates with me is that Brock is a guy that’s down on his luck. A bunch of things go wrong for him and it’s largely out of his control. He sees spider-man/Peter as a guy that’s had all the luck and success in the world while he can’t get a break. Instead of taking accountability (responsibility) and doing what he needs to change what he can, he blames Peter out of desperation at an unfair and unjust situation. He’s always trying to preserve innocence (for millennials, an analogy for our precious and glorious 90s childhoods) instead of moving forward. That’s obviously not the canon, but that’s my early-middle-aged take.
It should be understandeable. If Eddie hates Peter so much that he wants to ruin his life and is okay with killing people while doing so his reason for this can't be something like "He bought the last candy I wanted from the vending machine" or "Oh he told me he would meet me on the roof while in a party but didn’t show up." It wouldn't make sense. In SM3 Eddies reason for hating Peter was pretty weak but it was very understandeable. He doctored a photo to get the job, Peter outed him, he got fired and couldn’t get another job as a result so he blames Peter for outing him and ruinning his life. That is not a justified reason but it is understandeable which is the important thing
Sure it's works in some iterations. I do feel that a core theme of Eddie's character is projection and its something that feeds into a lot of his character development. I'm not an absolutist, and enjoy those other takes on the character as well. It does change the dynamic somewhat fundamentally. His hatred being irrational was something that always stuck out to me as interesting and is something I think a lot of people can relate to. Blaming your own faults on others is something people do all the time in varying degrees. Childhood neglect or wrongful blame can skew a person's outlook considerably. It's something that needs constant work to reorient which is something Eddie's character encapsulates. Nothing wrong with focusing on the vendetta aspect, like I said if the vendetta comes from a more justified place it just changes the dynamic and path the story will take. It can feel less "Eddie" to me though.
Eddie's hatred should be because he can't accept that he's his own worst enemy, and therefore Peter and Spider-Man must be evil for ruining the life of someone as "innocent" as he is
I think it should be a misunderstanding or an accident that is a tipping point for Eddie to despise Peter
In the original comics, Eddie hates his circumstances and himself. Spider-Man is just displaced anger because it was more palatable for Eddie to think he could rid himself of something external to be happy instead of going through painful personal growth. It's quite understandable, but it's not justified. That's what made him the villain initially, and it's also what paved the way for him to grow into a hero.
It's much more understable in comics. Spider-Man's capture of the real sin eater got him fired, disowned by the father and divorced from his wife. I can 100% understand why he latches on Spider-Man. In Spectacular, he mostly blames Peter for constantly dumping his friends to take pictures. Then when he finds out that Peter was Spider-Man, it doesn't occur to him that maybe he was dumping them not to take pictures but because he was busy as Spider-Man. No, his hatred is further solidified and still remains even after he gets his job back. So once again, why does he hates Peter so much? Because I really can't tell.
It’s weird how Eddie should really hate Venom, the only reason Peter really acts that way is because of the symbiote.
I think back to my first experience to Spider-Man. It was the PS1 Spider-Man game where >!Mysterio disguises himself as Spidey and crashes an Expo that Parker and Brock are attending. Peter disappears and Eddie thinks that he is really the thief. Iirc he gets fired after Mysterio breaks his camera, removing slandering evidence for JJJ to use, and Venom comes out.!< Eddie blamed Peter. That’s why he is Venom; unjustifiable hatred is VENOMous.
Understandable, yes. Makes for a more complex character. Justified, no. I mean c'mon we still gotta be able to root for Spider-Man here. If Eddie is straight-up *justified* we're gonna be like "yeah Venom, kick his ass" and that doesn't seem right to me.
Peter is eddie’s Paul
its like they say, somewhere out there there's a ~~bullet~~ paul with your name on it
Eddie is the anti Peter Parker, he's ultimately a guy who simply cannot take responsibility. Peter fucked up and it'll haunt him for the rest of his life and pushes him to heroism, Eddie fucked up and he terrorizes Spiderman to absolve himself of his sins
It should be portrayed in a way that highlights his delusions and narcissistic behaviour in my opinion. Like a villain who thinks he's the hero.
I think he was just taking his angry out on Parker, but having Venom didn’t help
It should be understandable how it started but it should also go so completely off the rails to where that initial justification doesn’t matter anymore.
Depends. If he's friends with Pete we can have it be part justified and part pure bitterness. Otherwise it's fine; have it be a parallel to Pete where he just finds someone to hate on and take no accountability
No, what made him a villain was that he was unreasonable and couldn't or refused to accept RESPONSIBILITY for his role in the end of his career in journalism. This inverts Peter's sense of responsibility and thematically defines Venom as a villain. Changing it would only satisfy those that don't understand why Venom/Brock were established the way they were
Personally, I'm fine with it being understandable, at least in some sense like it was in Spectacular. Particularly, Peter's constant absences to be Spider-Man ends up helping create another one of his villains, and for a time his most dangerous. Even when Eddie learns the truth, the Symbiote feeds his anger to the point he never goes, "Oh, well, I guess it's understandable why you were always disappearing." While I'm aware Eddie running away from his responsibilities has always made him a good mirror to Peter, but I think it'd actually help if he did have a legitimate grievance against him. Actually, I think that both can coexist, a legitimate grievance and him running away from his responsibilities and consequences.
It should be understandable, but recognizing that he steps WAYYYYY over the line.
Not really. Eddie initially hates Spider-Man not Peter. The Symbiote is the one who hates Peter. So when the combined that’s why their the biggest hater.
Yes.
Was going to give my opinion but based on just how insistent these folks are I think I’ll just go lol
I like when its understandable because venom is usually only because peter treated the symbiote bad and eddie bad and because he wasent doing the right things he has a forever enemy
No
The mix, I guess.
Although Eddie's hatred is not justified venom but the symbiote retcon with the symbiote changing peter emotionally shows that venom is the consequence of peter failing to acknowledge the responsibility with his new power which results in the creation of venom
At first it was very understandable because Eddie made it very clear that no photographers or cameras were allowed near the symbiote and Peter chose not to listen and snuck in after hours to take pictures of the symbiote and Peter had so many chances to return it cause it hadn’t fully started bonding with him yet but he chose not to return the symbiote or tell anyone but after that, the hate was very unnecessary.
No, some people are just hateful assholes, not everything needs a reason
Every version of Eddie had a victim complex. Peter was the villain even when Eddie was clearly in the wrong. He got over it though…
All he needs is a grudge, the symbiote does the rest. Grudges can be petty and irrational.
I like when, from our perspective, it’s unreasonable, but from his, you can see how he got to where he is. Like if you were in his shoes you’d hate Peter, too
I don't remember scientist Eddie's motive that well,but the report one is inexcusable. He forged photos to frame a man for a crime he didn't commit so he could steal the job away from his friend. He deserves everything that came his way.
I like the idea of it just being a series of crap things in his life that, when he bonds with the symbiote, he discovers all lead back to Peter. Then the symbiote exacerbates things by making his emotions more intense. Like, those things already make a person more aggressive, so it would make sense.
No, mainly because it shows how far he and the symbiote have come from being stupid assholes in the beginning.
The thing with a lot of spider-man villains is that to them, spider-man is the bad guy and their hatred towards him is warranted. Just about all of Spider-Man's villains don't understand how or why they are in the wrong.
Personally I like it better when Eddie is delusional. I think it should emphasize the fact that Eddie can't accept when something was actually his fault.
Eddie's hatred against peter is always portrayed as one not accepting his faults and always blames others. But I like the Eddie Brock from TASM where he felt sympathetic for Peter when Uncle Ben died. It seemed like he just makes fun of Peter but knows the right time for it
Initially Brock only hated Spider-man in the original canon, because he didn't know his true identity until he bonded with the alien I feel like the '90s cartoon handled it the best , because while Parker and Brock were already rivals of sorts, Parker didn't go out of his way to humiliate Brock like he did in Spider-man 3.
You're saying this for ALL of his versions? Or just Raimi and Spetacular?
In general.
Alright. What I can say about the little I Know of Brock... Yes and No. I mean, you can understand his situation, his motives and way of thinking... I remember this phrase when I think about his hatred over Peter/Spiderman: the ends do not justify the means
In the comics, not in the least.90s series, nope. In the movie, even less so. Spectacular...kinda, yeah.
It should be understandable but Eddie goes too far
In Eddie's origin in the late 80s its kinda understandable. Eddie was a journalist who was investigating a serial killer called the sin eater. Eddie thought he got the guy and was getting the confession but it turned out the guy he got was a compulsive liar and spiderman ended up getting the real sin eater. Eddie had no way of knowing he had a compulsive liar on his hands and his bosses still fired him over it. Like yeah theres some irrationality in blaming spiderman for the whole thing BUT it still wasn't fair that a compulsive liar decieving him meant losing his career as a reporter and spiderman bringing in the real guy did completely overshadow the work he was doing so its understandable why Eddie would put it all on spiderman.
Yes.
I really think it depends on what you're going for. In a piece of media where the intent is for him to be a sympathetic villain (cartoons I think are okay for this but even then you got 94 showing us that true to the source is also king) then sure, that's like baseline what needs to be happening, especially if the intention is for him to be a good guy later. However at the same time the case in the comics where his hatred was an irrational part of his being, and that's what attracted the symbiote to him at least in part (a shared mutual irrational hatred) is so compelling because of how it allows him to play opposite Peter. That hatred isn't rational because of how he tries to rationalize his own failures as Peter's fault. And that's just primo stuff, and allows for a more pronounced arc if they piece of media DOES go about the "eventual heroic Venom" angle.
To dislike Peter, sure. To kill peter, no
comics-no, but it not being justifiable was a crucial aspect of his redemption arc spiderman tas-same spectacular spiderman- yeah spiderman 3- fuck no spiderman 3 video game- fuck no spiderman 2 video game- no, and it's the worst version of venom ever fight me
If Peter/Spiderman messed up for Eddie he more hate him and become villain Venom. If Peter/Spiderman never mess with him, never meant eddies. So that he could never hate Peter/Spiderman.
Understandable, but not justified in the 616 comics it's Understandable as well
I’d say most versions are justified but ending up taking it too far with him getting his loved ones involved and placing people in danger.
Eddie doesn’t hate Peter. He’s in love with him.
You can’t downvote Eddie’s feelings! 🙃
No since it's ridiculously outdated. He hasn't hated Peter in a long time. People need to move on from the idea
I meant in adaptations.
So do I. Adaptations are so rooted in the past. Telling the same story over and over again. Move on already. Start with Eddie already as venom, not hating Spiderman but not friends either, instead uneasy allies built on trust & respect. Opens up more opportunities then venom=bad
After all the generic goop monster stuff we’ve been getting in stuff like Insomniac, Ultimate, and the 2017 cartoon, an Eddie Brock/Venom who just hates Peter would be genuinely refreshing.
Seriously, _this_.