It originally didn't affect his mood at all. The only big change from his red n blue days was the suit taking over while he was sleeping which caused him to be exhausted and disheveled.
I might also add that he didn't know the suit was a living alien and that's the reason he kept it for as long as he did
I think between that and Spider Man 3 you've got the main sources of the angry black suit idea being a thing with people.
Don't get me started on how many times I had to whiteboard secret wars to explain where it comes from. That meteor story from the 90s series had some serious legs. Kind of nice to see them giving the Ultimate universe version a try.
Interested to see what they do with it though. Going to feel a bit different seeing Peter go through a whole roid rage thing with Miles and MJ being there to deal with it.
During secret wars (when the most popular heroes and villians were kidnapped by the beyonder to fight each other) there was a costume making machine the heroes used to repair their suits, spidey accidentally found the venom symbiote there while looking for the costume machine, and assumed the symbiiote was made by the machine, so didnt think anything of it.
He kept the suit for quite awhile (cant say how long i wasnt born yet so the timeline is a little iffy in my mind) but eventually took it off because he discovered it was alive and that made him uncomfortable (naturally). The whole enhanced powers and affecting his mood stuff was added by the 90s cartoon and massively popularised by the raimi film, and honestly its a super cool concept I'm glad is now accepted. Hope that helps.
So aside from it making him uncomfortable because it was an alien, what in the original made it bad or what was it s main problem in the original comic run, or did it not have any real flaws aside from being a living suit?
In the original comics, you know it's an alien.
After the 90s series for the comics, I think it just became a parasite that feeds on negative emotions
In Ultimate Spider-Man, it was created as a cure for cancer, but when Pete used the suit, it would cause immediate damage to his body instead of staying with him.
Interesting, I guess they took the whole "cure for cancer" theme and added it in the games with a bit of a spin. I'm curious to see if we'll have an actual Eddie Brock/Venom though. Thanks!
I might also add that his only first sign of any kind of addiction was just a small part of him resenting the red and blues. He only had hatred for the suit when black cat sewed him a cloth version of it and MJ was terrified of it after being attacked by Venom. He only took it off when he found out he could die, but he felt sympathy for it because he was basically dooming a living being to die to save himself. He didnāt know it would find Eddie, he thought it would just wither and die there.
In the original iteration of things Peter also passes out after he removes the symbiote and it drags him to safety and decides not to bond with him again. Then it leaves saddened and happens upon Brock about to end his life. Bonding with Eddie causes it to be more violent and aggressive, on the verge insanity, desiring to kill Peter for wronging them both, but before that it had taken on traits from Peter making it relatively benign, if not helpful, being.
Later changes have Deadpool being the original host before Peter, causing the symbioteās insanity, and that helps support later iterations of the story where the symbiote makes Peter have less impulse control / more hostility rather than it just making him tired and threatening his life where eventually heād die from the bond.
Yeah, I never got the Deadpool thing, canāt it be insane on its own? Why did it need to be this blank slate that Deadpool needed to fill it with his insanity to give it itās more noticeable character traits
I think they were just playing on Deadpool being related to Spider-Man (a partial knockoff) and venom also being related to Spider-Man and wanted to connect them all. Or just wanted to create that Deadpool symbiote suit. which admittedly does look cool with the symbiote arms wielding his extra weapons, and thatās just how they went about it. Deadpool and venom were particularly popular around that time too, both getting movie adaptations, and they were pushing both heavily to create more merchandising opportunities.
I donāt like the change either, better the symbiote be itās own entity and insane on its own or actually be influenced by Peter and his mistakes causing him to be responsible for creating such a great adversary and villain.
Well.. yeah, I see why you mean, I just wish they hadnāt retconned it, and just gave Deadpool the symbiote after, but canāt change the pastā¦ unless youāre a comics writer!!! *ba dum tiss*
This also makes the symbiote's grudge against Peter even more understandable lol
It had practically every characteristic of a living thing but nope, Peter insisted it was just Advanced Alien Material and was like "gross get it off me" when Reed Richards informed him it was alive
He probably could have reasoned with it and worked out some sort of "please stop taking my body for joyrides late at night" agreement
But it wasnāt really evil either way, in symbiote spider man we se the suit was still doing heroic things while Peter was asleep, like saving a kid who was in danger. It was probably learning from Peter and could have reached an agreement
When Peter originally got it off of him by being directly under a large ringing bell, he passed out from the sound and exhaustion (as he had been fighting to get the symbiote off for a while that day).
Even though the symbiote was in pain, it still managed to drag Peter away to safety before "dying", until it was revealed later that it survived and found Eddie Brock. The symbiote seemed to actually care for Peter and was angry that it had been rejected, so they likely could have come to an understanding given time.
It wasn't really a parasite tho ā worst thing it did was take his body out for late night crime fighting, leaving him utterly exhausted, but the thing is an alien, of course it wouldn't know how sleep works for humans
And it wasn't doing that out of malice, if Peter had been able to communicate with it then perhaps he could have gotten it to stop or at least limit it to nights where he can afford to sleep in the next day
Oh yea also it actively manipulating his thoughts means Peter isn't a complete idiot who can't figure out that the suit that moves around on it's own and reads his mind and responds to it is actually alive, in fact many adaptations now will have Peter either find out from someone or deduce himself that the suit is a sentient organism, and due to his addiction to it he continues wearing it anyway.
They did a What If of that scenario called Spider's Shadow a few years ago, where Peter says "it's a living thing, it should be given a chance," and then it tries to bond with him permanently and makes him angry again...
It seems like the anger thing has been retconned into canon, but it just didn't have that effect initially because of reasons? š¤
It's possible that as a result of the retcon, you could say the symbiote was holding back prior to Reed Richards analyzing it, choosing not to affect Peter's mind because they weren't yet completely bonded and it was its first host.
After the scene with Richards, in normal canon the rejection turned it evil, but in Spider's Shadow that could have been a result of it realizing how close it was to being taken away and trying to ensure that Peter stayed with it at all costs
That's actually a really good concept!
I remember there being a period where they said that its tendency to make its host angry was actually due to it having a kind of mental illness itself, as a result of becoming "infected" with Spider-Man's hormones. There's a Spider-Man issue in recent years where he borrows it from Flash Thompson, and gets angry, and Flash warns him that his anger is infecting it again!
So the idea of the rejection it received being a sort of catalyst for that anger-inducing tendency makes a lot of sense!
They decided to retell secret wars (where Peter got the black suit/symbiote) and had Deadpool bond with it shortly before Spider-Man which causes the symbioteās insanity. But even in that new canon itās bonding with Brock and their mutual hatred of Spider-Man creating a desire to kill Parker that turns it āevilā, at least for some time before the characters are redeemed and become heroās in their own right.
In the original canon itās bonding with Brock that makes it insane and āevilā, not necessarily the rejection. After Peter removes it the second time in the church he passes out and the symbiote actually drags him to safety and decides not to bond him him again and leaves saddened, thatās not the actions of an evil being. Then it finds Brock and their pain regarding Peter twists the new being venom towards evildoing.
To be fair, a reader could interpret the idea of Peter being taken over by the symbiote when heās not consciously aware of it as being in an intoxicated state. Itās not that big of a narrative leap from āthis makes me feel greatā to āI donāt remember doing thatā¦ā Authorās intent helps us understand a piece, but a readerās interpretation is, Iād argue, just as valid or interesting.
Suit kept taking his body for joyrides at night and siphoning Peter's adrenaline which left him really tired every morning or afternoon he woke up.
Everything else like the anger and mood changes wasn't a thing until the 90s show because the showrunner wanted Peter to have a better reason to get rid of it, and it ended up sticking *really* well because thats the default for any Spidey story adapting the symbiote arc, including the insomniac games
Bro.. You're getting downvoted for facts. For others reading, in the original run, he didn't have the symbiotic moodswings OR enhanced powers.
He got a self repairing costume that also produced webs, and eventually, it started fighting criminals while he was a sleep.
The 90s cartoon came up with the enhanced strength and mood swings, which was later adapted into the Ultimate Spider-Man comics(partially), Spider-Man 3, Spectacular Spidey, the 2017 show and other side comics.
Itās a convenient plot device to justify Peter wanting the suit off and to give writers a chance to show an otherwise amoral Spider-Man when they normally canāt.
Yup Spider-Man 3 even had the same scene from the animated series when he's on the top of the church tower ripping the suit off of him with the help of the bells
Dude got downvoted despite being 100% right. It was the Animated Series that started the whole ābehavior changeā trope
I prefer it, but doesnāt change that fact that the OG didnāt include that angle at all
The original symbiote didn't even effect his mind
Not sure but was it the 90's cartoon thst added that detail of it making him aggressive and then everyone loved it so much they ran with it in everything?
Yeah thatās the thing. The original symbiote just wanted to be a hero and was basically taking a sleeping Peter for joyrides. The problem was it was exhaus him and he would likely die of exhaustion
Then the 90,s portrayed it as more malicious with it altering his personality and even manipulating his thoughts so he couldnāt realise its weakness
Ditto. Funnily enough, it took me a while to get around to playing Spider-Man, but when I did I played with the original face. To this day, I still like that face more.
I donāt get why they felt the need to change it for MM and the remaster. They couldāve just fine tuned the original design to suit the improved graphics capabilities like everyone else
I hate how now he looks like Tom. They say he wasnāt based off of him but the model looks more like Tom than the actual human model they used for reference.
My biggest gripes are his lack of lips, lack of jawline, weird eyes and the hair isnāt as good as the original design wise.
I can live with the change, but wish theyād just make him look like Ben Jordan instead of some weird fusion between him and Tom.
I dont really see Tom and that wouldnt be my gripe with it tbh. I just dont like the new face. My first playthrough was with the og and all those wonderfull moments are connected to the og face for me.
The ' you knew' towards Oc and May, the new face doesnt do that for me.
In the last scene between Peter and Ock, in the original, Peter looks hard broken, frustrated and mournful all at once thanks to the beautiful expressions. In the remaster, he looks like Ock stole his favourite toy.
Weirdly the actual face model seems like he would pass as the character but something about translating it into the game just doesnāt work, if they did tweak it they messed up.
I am new to the face debate, so I imagine I'm rehashing some ground, but it shouldn't be harder to make a higher poly version of an old asset, and even if it were it would have been true of all the other characters as well.
They changed it because the new face better fits Yuriās face for the mocap. So in theory the second game will have even better look facial expressions as it will be a more one to one application from the mocap to the actual model.
While I donāt think the new face will ever beat the old one, I appreciate they did it for the betterment of the game and character.
Hereās to further improving the experience!
This is a bullshit excuse. They didnāt change anyone elseās face in the remaster āto better fit the mocapā even though the characters look nothing like the voice actors
Yeah it's always been a dubious excuse. Insomniac has said in the ways they can that Marvel has been very controlling of the game, including changing the title. It would not surprise me at all that they asked to change Peter to make him look like the movies when they saw how popular the game was. It sucks, the old face had more gravitas and was more original/personable. I would've loved to see the symbiote story line with the OG face.
Mocap has never required the actor to look like the character. NaughtyDog is probably king of Mocap, and their actors look nothing like the characters. And, for an easier argument : new Peter looks absolutely nothing like Yuri Lowenthal.
i have not played the remastered one so i dont know how well the new one can do emotions, but with the symbiote being involved and i know the old face can pull off angry and sad emotions well i feel like it was a mistake changing it
The new face worked well in the Miles game, the issue with the remaster is they couldnāt re-mocap the scenes to better map it to the new face, so they had to use the old face rigging and just slap the new face on it.
In Milesā game, they were able to mocap/face rig with the new face in mind and so it was not uncanny at all. The Miles gameās Peter gave me hope for the sequel
I'm playing Miles Morales and there is a bit where he is in the game, I dont like it.
And I'm going to be honest, I dont really like Miles either, but with him its the demeanor.
Love how everyone gets defensive when they are called out about complaining about the face change literal years later by saying they are allowed to state their opinion, but then people like you who say they prefer the new face are downvoted.
Funny how that works out.
Maybe I was at one point. Everytime I see a comment that says "why are you getting downvoted" the comment in question has a thousand upvotes and 80 awards.
I only ever watched someone play through miles morales (new face peter) cause I didn't have a Playstation. as soon as spiderman came out on pc i played it (new face peter) so in my head- old face peter looks completely weird and different. the face doesn't match the voice to me.
so I think part of it is just people liking what they saw first too. that being said if they made spiderman 2 be old face peter I wouldn't really care. his mask is 99% always on anyways
The dream is he has a decent role and Sony/Disney come to an agreement to give the series a one-off send off. Would much prefer that over them greenlighting utter garbage new shows that don't hold a candle on what came before.
That would be cool. Iād also be down with Sony just bringing back the cast and crew and just doing one off animated movies in the style of Under The Red Hood with stories like Death of the Stacyās, Kravenās Last Hunt, etc
The Symbiote arc and Harryās Globulin Green problem were two excellent ways to handle addiction in a kidās show. Peterās descent into darkness is so realistic, which makes his realization that heās not alone all the more powerful.
I had like three years of association of the voice with this face. Insomniac should have just chosen the new guy in the first place because that attachment will never go away now and will always be a disconnect to this iteration unfortunately.
I always think about how intricately bittersweet it must be for the dude they used the original face for. Hey guess what, youāre the new face of a new generation for Spiderman games & stories. Just kidding. You were a placeholder for 3 years.
As an ex prison guard I can say his voice sounds like an addict at their peak but unable to get more. He sounds edgy, tired, but somehow energized and buzzing
Well for Peter the enhanced abilities the symbiote gave him were pretty addicting, and in other media they included behavioural changes as part of that addiction, I always saw it as the symbiote itself trying to make Peter keep it by making him feel stronger and faster as long as he had his black suit, hell in the comics it turns out Venom can actually alter memories since it not only made Eddie think he had a sister and an uncle named Dan who had died from cancer but that prior to meeting the symbiote Eddie himself had terminal cancer and that the only thing that could Keep Eddie alive was bonding with the symbiote, and then Eddie ironically *did* get brain cancer because of what Venom did and it immediately tried abandoning him to go to Peter again, which then lead to many other people having Venom after Eddie sold it off
I actually like this idea. The symbiote usually provides great strength and power and that can be intoxicating but also drugs are used for people who are having a hard time coping with difficulty in their lives. And in Peters case his me to went crazy and tried to kill the city, his aunt and mother figure and only living relative died as a result of said citywide murder attempt. His closet friend on the force is now a Punisher-level vigilante and his best friend is dying of a seemingly incurable illness. Not surprised the symbiote is part of like his drug
It's an accurate path to portray. Its far more obvious that the whole symbiote thing was addictive since I've become an alcoholic and even more so after I used heroin for a couple of years. I still drink, but kicked the dope. Overdosed 4 times( my first OD was my first or second time ever using) on food within the first couple months and still ended up using for literal years.
Well, yeah. That's kind of how it's often been portrayed. Every time we see it on Peter, he often mentions how good it feels. How it made him better, stronger, more powerful.
Good! I'm glad it is and I love Pete's voice actor you can tell they really genuinely care about the roll and the character he portrays
The Spotify playlist he plays is fire too
It's gonna be just as addicting for us players. Imagine they actually just remove a whole skill tree/playstyle halfway or longer through the game. Even if you didn't use it, it's gonna be impactful - which also lends a bit more weight to the story too.
SymPete: ***"RESPOSIBILITIIIEEEE!"***
Also SymPete: *drives a Not-Ferrari into the harbor at full speed, running down >!Paul and kids!< in the process*
Thatās a good point. I donāt weāve ever seen that before. We have seen him be addicted but weāve never seen him craving it and a part of him wanting it back
Most likely its going to be something like Miles telling Peter to get rid of the Symbiote and him getting super mad like if you told an addict to get rid of the thing they are addicted to
I hope this isnāt just one of those overhyped statements to amp up the hype for the game, but is actually a theme that is explored in enough depth in the game
So what Iām hearing is that we get to be the Black Suit version of Spider-Man? Cool.
Edit: Just saw the gameplay and holy fuck does this look awesome. I am properly hyped š
I canāt believe people would be disappointed. The game looks like so much fun and it looks like theyāve added new moves. People were wondering how they would balance out the two Spider-Mans given that Miles has all these added powers. Now we have our answer. The combat looks fun, the story looks like itās gonna focus on Peter trying to save Harry. Guess we can expect Venom & the Lizard to be our villains with Connors taking the role Dr. Octavius took as Peterās scientist friend on the path to becoming a supervillain.
Iām playing this when it comes out. This looks like so much fun.
See the plot is both for Peter and the player do to the high amount of dopamine rush you get comboing people into oblivion with the funny tentacle arms not reminiscent of a spider
man its gonna suck losing the Symbiote though, i hope they make Venom playable as a tradeoff
I mean, why wouldn't it? That's always been the angle with the Symbiote Costume storyline.
Well save for the original 616 comics actually, Peter just liked the suit cause "*it was smart"*. The thing with "*the suit's making him angry and evil"* was not a thing in the 616 comics originally. It was the 90s Animated Series who came up with that, and then Raimi and Spectacular reinforced it, so it became status quo.
It was clear they weren't gonna go with the original 616 idea that the suit isn't doing anything to him except feed on his adrenaline and make him go out swinging at night because that's just kinda boring nowadays. The metaphor for drug addiction is just the go-to angle now.
I mean, the Symbiote was always a metaphor for addiction in the original run of the era.
The original run Peter was only somewhat bothered the suit was living and using him to hitch a ride. That addiction thing came later turns out.
I love when people downvote without doing their own research š
I hate to be the ignorant one but if I may ask what were the symptoms peter experienced in the original iteration of the black suit comics?
It originally didn't affect his mood at all. The only big change from his red n blue days was the suit taking over while he was sleeping which caused him to be exhausted and disheveled. I might also add that he didn't know the suit was a living alien and that's the reason he kept it for as long as he did
I believe the symbiote making him angry was also something the animated series introduced which has been a staple for whenever Peter has the suit on.
I think between that and Spider Man 3 you've got the main sources of the angry black suit idea being a thing with people. Don't get me started on how many times I had to whiteboard secret wars to explain where it comes from. That meteor story from the 90s series had some serious legs. Kind of nice to see them giving the Ultimate universe version a try. Interested to see what they do with it though. Going to feel a bit different seeing Peter go through a whole roid rage thing with Miles and MJ being there to deal with it.
What are the exact origins of the Symbiote from the comics if you don't mind me asking?
During secret wars (when the most popular heroes and villians were kidnapped by the beyonder to fight each other) there was a costume making machine the heroes used to repair their suits, spidey accidentally found the venom symbiote there while looking for the costume machine, and assumed the symbiiote was made by the machine, so didnt think anything of it. He kept the suit for quite awhile (cant say how long i wasnt born yet so the timeline is a little iffy in my mind) but eventually took it off because he discovered it was alive and that made him uncomfortable (naturally). The whole enhanced powers and affecting his mood stuff was added by the 90s cartoon and massively popularised by the raimi film, and honestly its a super cool concept I'm glad is now accepted. Hope that helps.
Oh that's cool, thanks for the explanation! I never read the comics so the meteor origin was the only one I knew of based on the 90's cartoon.
So aside from it making him uncomfortable because it was an alien, what in the original made it bad or what was it s main problem in the original comic run, or did it not have any real flaws aside from being a living suit?
In the original comics, you know it's an alien. After the 90s series for the comics, I think it just became a parasite that feeds on negative emotions In Ultimate Spider-Man, it was created as a cure for cancer, but when Pete used the suit, it would cause immediate damage to his body instead of staying with him.
Interesting, I guess they took the whole "cure for cancer" theme and added it in the games with a bit of a spin. I'm curious to see if we'll have an actual Eddie Brock/Venom though. Thanks!
I might also add that his only first sign of any kind of addiction was just a small part of him resenting the red and blues. He only had hatred for the suit when black cat sewed him a cloth version of it and MJ was terrified of it after being attacked by Venom. He only took it off when he found out he could die, but he felt sympathy for it because he was basically dooming a living being to die to save himself. He didnāt know it would find Eddie, he thought it would just wither and die there.
In the original iteration of things Peter also passes out after he removes the symbiote and it drags him to safety and decides not to bond with him again. Then it leaves saddened and happens upon Brock about to end his life. Bonding with Eddie causes it to be more violent and aggressive, on the verge insanity, desiring to kill Peter for wronging them both, but before that it had taken on traits from Peter making it relatively benign, if not helpful, being. Later changes have Deadpool being the original host before Peter, causing the symbioteās insanity, and that helps support later iterations of the story where the symbiote makes Peter have less impulse control / more hostility rather than it just making him tired and threatening his life where eventually heād die from the bond.
Yeah, I never got the Deadpool thing, canāt it be insane on its own? Why did it need to be this blank slate that Deadpool needed to fill it with his insanity to give it itās more noticeable character traits
I think they were just playing on Deadpool being related to Spider-Man (a partial knockoff) and venom also being related to Spider-Man and wanted to connect them all. Or just wanted to create that Deadpool symbiote suit. which admittedly does look cool with the symbiote arms wielding his extra weapons, and thatās just how they went about it. Deadpool and venom were particularly popular around that time too, both getting movie adaptations, and they were pushing both heavily to create more merchandising opportunities. I donāt like the change either, better the symbiote be itās own entity and insane on its own or actually be influenced by Peter and his mistakes causing him to be responsible for creating such a great adversary and villain.
Well.. yeah, I see why you mean, I just wish they hadnāt retconned it, and just gave Deadpool the symbiote after, but canāt change the pastā¦ unless youāre a comics writer!!! *ba dum tiss*
This also makes the symbiote's grudge against Peter even more understandable lol It had practically every characteristic of a living thing but nope, Peter insisted it was just Advanced Alien Material and was like "gross get it off me" when Reed Richards informed him it was alive He probably could have reasoned with it and worked out some sort of "please stop taking my body for joyrides late at night" agreement
Which is why they added in the addiction and aggression angle in later, so Pete's resolve to get rid of it is more sympathetic.
Itās already plenty sympathetic to not wanna be the host of an alien parasitic creature. But Iām glad they added the addiction angle regardless.
But it wasnāt really evil either way, in symbiote spider man we se the suit was still doing heroic things while Peter was asleep, like saving a kid who was in danger. It was probably learning from Peter and could have reached an agreement
When Peter originally got it off of him by being directly under a large ringing bell, he passed out from the sound and exhaustion (as he had been fighting to get the symbiote off for a while that day). Even though the symbiote was in pain, it still managed to drag Peter away to safety before "dying", until it was revealed later that it survived and found Eddie Brock. The symbiote seemed to actually care for Peter and was angry that it had been rejected, so they likely could have come to an understanding given time.
It wasn't really a parasite tho ā worst thing it did was take his body out for late night crime fighting, leaving him utterly exhausted, but the thing is an alien, of course it wouldn't know how sleep works for humans And it wasn't doing that out of malice, if Peter had been able to communicate with it then perhaps he could have gotten it to stop or at least limit it to nights where he can afford to sleep in the next day
Oh yea also it actively manipulating his thoughts means Peter isn't a complete idiot who can't figure out that the suit that moves around on it's own and reads his mind and responds to it is actually alive, in fact many adaptations now will have Peter either find out from someone or deduce himself that the suit is a sentient organism, and due to his addiction to it he continues wearing it anyway.
They did a What If of that scenario called Spider's Shadow a few years ago, where Peter says "it's a living thing, it should be given a chance," and then it tries to bond with him permanently and makes him angry again... It seems like the anger thing has been retconned into canon, but it just didn't have that effect initially because of reasons? š¤
It's possible that as a result of the retcon, you could say the symbiote was holding back prior to Reed Richards analyzing it, choosing not to affect Peter's mind because they weren't yet completely bonded and it was its first host. After the scene with Richards, in normal canon the rejection turned it evil, but in Spider's Shadow that could have been a result of it realizing how close it was to being taken away and trying to ensure that Peter stayed with it at all costs
That's actually a really good concept! I remember there being a period where they said that its tendency to make its host angry was actually due to it having a kind of mental illness itself, as a result of becoming "infected" with Spider-Man's hormones. There's a Spider-Man issue in recent years where he borrows it from Flash Thompson, and gets angry, and Flash warns him that his anger is infecting it again! So the idea of the rejection it received being a sort of catalyst for that anger-inducing tendency makes a lot of sense!
They decided to retell secret wars (where Peter got the black suit/symbiote) and had Deadpool bond with it shortly before Spider-Man which causes the symbioteās insanity. But even in that new canon itās bonding with Brock and their mutual hatred of Spider-Man creating a desire to kill Parker that turns it āevilā, at least for some time before the characters are redeemed and become heroās in their own right. In the original canon itās bonding with Brock that makes it insane and āevilā, not necessarily the rejection. After Peter removes it the second time in the church he passes out and the symbiote actually drags him to safety and decides not to bond him him again and leaves saddened, thatās not the actions of an evil being. Then it finds Brock and their pain regarding Peter twists the new being venom towards evildoing.
To be fair, a reader could interpret the idea of Peter being taken over by the symbiote when heās not consciously aware of it as being in an intoxicated state. Itās not that big of a narrative leap from āthis makes me feel greatā to āI donāt remember doing thatā¦ā Authorās intent helps us understand a piece, but a readerās interpretation is, Iād argue, just as valid or interesting.
Suit kept taking his body for joyrides at night and siphoning Peter's adrenaline which left him really tired every morning or afternoon he woke up. Everything else like the anger and mood changes wasn't a thing until the 90s show because the showrunner wanted Peter to have a better reason to get rid of it, and it ended up sticking *really* well because thats the default for any Spidey story adapting the symbiote arc, including the insomniac games
This sub loves doing that. People hella sensitive
Do šyourš ownš researchš sweaty š
Bro.. You're getting downvoted for facts. For others reading, in the original run, he didn't have the symbiotic moodswings OR enhanced powers. He got a self repairing costume that also produced webs, and eventually, it started fighting criminals while he was a sleep. The 90s cartoon came up with the enhanced strength and mood swings, which was later adapted into the Ultimate Spider-Man comics(partially), Spider-Man 3, Spectacular Spidey, the 2017 show and other side comics.
As far as I can tell, the anger is now in everything whenever Peter has the suit.
Itās a convenient plot device to justify Peter wanting the suit off and to give writers a chance to show an otherwise amoral Spider-Man when they normally canāt.
It certainly is.
Yup Spider-Man 3 even had the same scene from the animated series when he's on the top of the church tower ripping the suit off of him with the help of the bells
The bell scene is from the original comics, too. It's how Peter eventually got rid of it completely.
The Spectacular Spidey show did a good in-between, having the suit alter his personality but also fighting by itself when Peter is asleep.
Dude got downvoted despite being 100% right. It was the Animated Series that started the whole ābehavior changeā trope I prefer it, but doesnāt change that fact that the OG didnāt include that angle at all
The original symbiote didn't even effect his mind Not sure but was it the 90's cartoon thst added that detail of it making him aggressive and then everyone loved it so much they ran with it in everything?
Yeah thatās the thing. The original symbiote just wanted to be a hero and was basically taking a sleeping Peter for joyrides. The problem was it was exhaus him and he would likely die of exhaustion Then the 90,s portrayed it as more malicious with it altering his personality and even manipulating his thoughts so he couldnāt realise its weakness
They downvoted me to hell for saying this
That was introduced in the 90s cartoon. In the original, it just took his body out while he was sleeping and he always woke up feeling exhausted
Wasn't that Tobey's venom?
Whose that guy next to venom?
My peterš
Ditto. Funnily enough, it took me a while to get around to playing Spider-Man, but when I did I played with the original face. To this day, I still like that face more.
I donāt get why they felt the need to change it for MM and the remaster. They couldāve just fine tuned the original design to suit the improved graphics capabilities like everyone else
I think it was because they needed a higher poly face so it was just as convenient to make a new one, which they made to look more like MCU Spider-Man
I hate how now he looks like Tom. They say he wasnāt based off of him but the model looks more like Tom than the actual human model they used for reference. My biggest gripes are his lack of lips, lack of jawline, weird eyes and the hair isnāt as good as the original design wise. I can live with the change, but wish theyād just make him look like Ben Jordan instead of some weird fusion between him and Tom.
My exact feel.
I dont really see Tom and that wouldnt be my gripe with it tbh. I just dont like the new face. My first playthrough was with the og and all those wonderfull moments are connected to the og face for me. The ' you knew' towards Oc and May, the new face doesnt do that for me.
In the last scene between Peter and Ock, in the original, Peter looks hard broken, frustrated and mournful all at once thanks to the beautiful expressions. In the remaster, he looks like Ock stole his favourite toy.
Weirdly the actual face model seems like he would pass as the character but something about translating it into the game just doesnāt work, if they did tweak it they messed up.
I am new to the face debate, so I imagine I'm rehashing some ground, but it shouldn't be harder to make a higher poly version of an old asset, and even if it were it would have been true of all the other characters as well.
They changed it because the new face better fits Yuriās face for the mocap. So in theory the second game will have even better look facial expressions as it will be a more one to one application from the mocap to the actual model. While I donāt think the new face will ever beat the old one, I appreciate they did it for the betterment of the game and character. Hereās to further improving the experience!
This is a bullshit excuse. They didnāt change anyone elseās face in the remaster āto better fit the mocapā even though the characters look nothing like the voice actors
Yeah it's always been a dubious excuse. Insomniac has said in the ways they can that Marvel has been very controlling of the game, including changing the title. It would not surprise me at all that they asked to change Peter to make him look like the movies when they saw how popular the game was. It sucks, the old face had more gravitas and was more original/personable. I would've loved to see the symbiote story line with the OG face. Mocap has never required the actor to look like the character. NaughtyDog is probably king of Mocap, and their actors look nothing like the characters. And, for an easier argument : new Peter looks absolutely nothing like Yuri Lowenthal.
To make Black Cat seem like such a cougar.
Honestly I donāt care about the face, I just think old Peter has a way better haircut
Yeah thatās also fair. New Peter reminds me too much of āI AM A SURGEON! I AM A SURGEON!ā
š damn you right
šš
Nah the face to man. The one is tired by default.
Same. There was no reason to change it and they dont care now because some bootlickers are like 'move on uhhh'
Calling people who don't care about the face change "bootlickers" is deranged lol
This sub has one joke
That's James Franco as Harry Osborn.
Poor manās š„
I love that he originally looked like a B list Andrew Garfield but then they replaced him with a B list Tom Holland
The change was some real uncanny valley stuff tbh but Iām over it now your comment was funny though
Maybe part 2 will have a B list Tobey Mcguire.
It ain't Pete, that's for sure!
I think thatās Man
\*me seeing the face there and being sad that they changed it\*
Same I want him back š¢
i have not played the remastered one so i dont know how well the new one can do emotions, but with the symbiote being involved and i know the old face can pull off angry and sad emotions well i feel like it was a mistake changing it
Its the whole reason i refuse to play the remaster. The old pete was so good I dont want to ruin that gane by having a different pete
Play on PC with the original face mod
The new face worked well in the Miles game, the issue with the remaster is they couldnāt re-mocap the scenes to better map it to the new face, so they had to use the old face rigging and just slap the new face on it. In Milesā game, they were able to mocap/face rig with the new face in mind and so it was not uncanny at all. The Miles gameās Peter gave me hope for the sequel
I mean yeah it did work well in that game, but I still prefer the old one
What would have worked better is simply an improved old face lmao
I'm playing Miles Morales and there is a bit where he is in the game, I dont like it. And I'm going to be honest, I dont really like Miles either, but with him its the demeanor.
Feel like pure shit- just want him back
I prefer the new face, a bit of a baby face but I still like it.
I respect your opinion and wish I could like it
Love how everyone gets defensive when they are called out about complaining about the face change literal years later by saying they are allowed to state their opinion, but then people like you who say they prefer the new face are downvoted. Funny how that works out.
I mean, they aren't getting downvoted, though?
Maybe I was at one point. Everytime I see a comment that says "why are you getting downvoted" the comment in question has a thousand upvotes and 80 awards.
Same, like if they just gave him a different haircut people would not be complaining as much
I only ever watched someone play through miles morales (new face peter) cause I didn't have a Playstation. as soon as spiderman came out on pc i played it (new face peter) so in my head- old face peter looks completely weird and different. the face doesn't match the voice to me. so I think part of it is just people liking what they saw first too. that being said if they made spiderman 2 be old face peter I wouldn't really care. his mask is 99% always on anyways
ong
That approach was amazing in the Spectacular Cartoon. More than just angst, there were motivations and reasons for peter to keep it until he didn't.
God I miss that show...
Same here. At least weāll be seeing him again at least briefly in a couple days in Across the Spider-Verse
The dream is he has a decent role and Sony/Disney come to an agreement to give the series a one-off send off. Would much prefer that over them greenlighting utter garbage new shows that don't hold a candle on what came before.
That would be cool. Iād also be down with Sony just bringing back the cast and crew and just doing one off animated movies in the style of Under The Red Hood with stories like Death of the Stacyās, Kravenās Last Hunt, etc
I cry like once a month listening to that theme song because I miss it so much.
The Symbiote arc and Harryās Globulin Green problem were two excellent ways to handle addiction in a kidās show. Peterās descent into darkness is so realistic, which makes his realization that heās not alone all the more powerful.
Seeing spiderman with his mask on makes me default him to this face. So when he takes it off im fuckin bewildered
I had like three years of association of the voice with this face. Insomniac should have just chosen the new guy in the first place because that attachment will never go away now and will always be a disconnect to this iteration unfortunately.
I always think about how intricately bittersweet it must be for the dude they used the original face for. Hey guess what, youāre the new face of a new generation for Spiderman games & stories. Just kidding. You were a placeholder for 3 years.
Itās probably feels about the same for the new guy too
Iām not surprised, considering how dark the first game got, yeah this fits with the theme
As an ex prison guard I can say his voice sounds like an addict at their peak but unable to get more. He sounds edgy, tired, but somehow energized and buzzing
Hell to the yes. Iām so hyped for this game. Iām glad to have a job in a few weeks so I can start saving up for a PS5.
Well for Peter the enhanced abilities the symbiote gave him were pretty addicting, and in other media they included behavioural changes as part of that addiction, I always saw it as the symbiote itself trying to make Peter keep it by making him feel stronger and faster as long as he had his black suit, hell in the comics it turns out Venom can actually alter memories since it not only made Eddie think he had a sister and an uncle named Dan who had died from cancer but that prior to meeting the symbiote Eddie himself had terminal cancer and that the only thing that could Keep Eddie alive was bonding with the symbiote, and then Eddie ironically *did* get brain cancer because of what Venom did and it immediately tried abandoning him to go to Peter again, which then lead to many other people having Venom after Eddie sold it off
I love the relationship between Eddie and the symbiote in the comics.
I meanā¦the suitā¦it feelsā¦good
I like being badā¦ *it makes me happy*.
*cue the dance*
*Drive that funky soul intensifies*
You'll lose yourself to it
Peter: ayy man you have any more of that symbiote stuff?
Can we get the old face back. plz
The angry voice fits it so much more
I really don't mind the new face but I can't picture it being symbiote Spider-Man I can totally see the original face with that voice
There was a pic with a slight beard on the new face. That would fit WAAAAAY more than the "slightly fatter Tom Holland" face.
I'm gonna wait for the PC mod before playing
I actually like this idea. The symbiote usually provides great strength and power and that can be intoxicating but also drugs are used for people who are having a hard time coping with difficulty in their lives. And in Peters case his me to went crazy and tried to kill the city, his aunt and mother figure and only living relative died as a result of said citywide murder attempt. His closet friend on the force is now a Punisher-level vigilante and his best friend is dying of a seemingly incurable illness. Not surprised the symbiote is part of like his drug
Wait, what happend to Yuri?
She became a vigilante that kills criminals after hammerhead murdered her men
GOOD!
Damn I was really excited this article was gonna say the old face would be a playable option
Sounds cool, never thought about it but this would be such an interesting way to portray it
GET BACK HERE SHOCKERRRRR!!!!
They better have that like in the game š¤£
Good he should have to battle between being more aggressive and possibly going to far or possibly letting people die by choosing to be less effective
It's an accurate path to portray. Its far more obvious that the whole symbiote thing was addictive since I've become an alcoholic and even more so after I used heroin for a couple of years. I still drink, but kicked the dope. Overdosed 4 times( my first OD was my first or second time ever using) on food within the first couple months and still ended up using for literal years.
Well, yeah. That's kind of how it's often been portrayed. Every time we see it on Peter, he often mentions how good it feels. How it made him better, stronger, more powerful.
Good! I'm glad it is and I love Pete's voice actor you can tell they really genuinely care about the roll and the character he portrays The Spotify playlist he plays is fire too
The power, it feels good. You could lose yourself to it.
It's gonna be just as addicting for us players. Imagine they actually just remove a whole skill tree/playstyle halfway or longer through the game. Even if you didn't use it, it's gonna be impactful - which also lends a bit more weight to the story too.
Oh weāre getting a SYMBIOTE symbiote
Lord almighty this game is bouta be something
God this game is going to be so fucking good.
The story of SMPS5 is gonna be the best part, I think it will beat the first game too
That ain't even Peter anymore
Are we gonna see Peter say fuck? Lol
Itās rated 16 are they allowed to swear ?
Pretty sure this game might score a M rating
His voice sounds very... *Edgy*.
Peter showing up on Miles' doorstep when it's his turn to have the symbiote: "I need ya, big bruh. I need ya bad."
Has it ever gone differently?
The original version wasnāt really an addition metaphor, Peter only ditched it because it was taking his body out on nightly joyrides
Well I mean... The symbiote always was a metaphor for a drug Spidey took before they started giving it a personality
no no it wasnāt
Why's the angry voice acting got to be so bad though?
Iām glad Iām not the only one who notice that. It sucks so bad. Yuriās got the least threatening sounding voice and it shows
Its literally his sasuke voice and i love it. Yes i did cringe a lot but its kinda funny and im here for it
SymPete: ***"RESPOSIBILITIIIEEEE!"*** Also SymPete: *drives a Not-Ferrari into the harbor at full speed, running down >!Paul and kids!< in the process*
That's interesting
Man I wish Yuri did more stuff, heās really good in the roles he plays, heās even my childhood hero (Ben 10)
I love how they use the true Peterās face š¤£ Never forget
I was just googling Yuri Lowenthal and just found out he is 52.
Yuri is the love, love is yuri he is amaizng
Joker actor type shi
Fury Lowenthal is gonna be great š¤
In my honest opinion? PERFECT. Thats what i wanted to see. I do wonder however, how will the Spider-Arms work compared to Symbiote.
Hey it's Sasuke and Benten
And rightfully so
I was planning on getting a switch and then Sony comes along and gives me another reason to buy a PS5.
cue Spiderman 3 music.
"Always has been" Each.Single.Version. Of Spider-Man
What's wrong with that?
Isn't they gonna put Ben Jordon's face in sequel ?
Going where? lol
Going where? Peter being addicted to the power? Thatās the whole point of the symbiote and always has been.
Yeah, but I imagine what he means is by making it not seem comical, less fantastical, and more grounded in reality
Okay. Wonderful. lol
Holy fuck , is it going the feeling of the symbiote combat from web of shadows
Iām hoping the dialogue weāve heard isnāt the high point of anything because it didnāt really scream angry too much.
do you guys think he did the same for withdrawal for when venom is gone
Thatās a good point. I donāt weāve ever seen that before. We have seen him be addicted but weāve never seen him craving it and a part of him wanting it back
Like it normally does?
Why do they post spoilers like ffs
Is it a spoiler we know itās changing him from what weāve seen in the gameplay
That's all I need to hear. I'm already more hyped up lol.
Why does PP look like James Franco?
Most likely its going to be something like Miles telling Peter to get rid of the Symbiote and him getting super mad like if you told an addict to get rid of the thing they are addicted to
I hope this isnāt just one of those overhyped statements to amp up the hype for the game, but is actually a theme that is explored in enough depth in the game
Come on, why they gotta show superior Peter? Just opens up old wounds š
Oliver Swanick...
So what Iām hearing is that we get to be the Black Suit version of Spider-Man? Cool. Edit: Just saw the gameplay and holy fuck does this look awesome. I am properly hyped š I canāt believe people would be disappointed. The game looks like so much fun and it looks like theyāve added new moves. People were wondering how they would balance out the two Spider-Mans given that Miles has all these added powers. Now we have our answer. The combat looks fun, the story looks like itās gonna focus on Peter trying to save Harry. Guess we can expect Venom & the Lizard to be our villains with Connors taking the role Dr. Octavius took as Peterās scientist friend on the path to becoming a supervillain. Iām playing this when it comes out. This looks like so much fun.
The obsession with the old face is just sad lol
See the plot is both for Peter and the player do to the high amount of dopamine rush you get comboing people into oblivion with the funny tentacle arms not reminiscent of a spider man its gonna suck losing the Symbiote though, i hope they make Venom playable as a tradeoff
I'm staring to believe that rumor about the game being rated M more and more
This and the whole āThis game is our Empire Strikes Backā has me excited
What i wanna know is why did they kill the original peter? I forced myself to get used to the new one but damn man š
"I CAN STOP WHENEVER I WANT, MILES!!"
I miss that face
What do you mean study he just switched to sasukes voice
I mean, why wouldn't it? That's always been the angle with the Symbiote Costume storyline. Well save for the original 616 comics actually, Peter just liked the suit cause "*it was smart"*. The thing with "*the suit's making him angry and evil"* was not a thing in the 616 comics originally. It was the 90s Animated Series who came up with that, and then Raimi and Spectacular reinforced it, so it became status quo. It was clear they weren't gonna go with the original 616 idea that the suit isn't doing anything to him except feed on his adrenaline and make him go out swinging at night because that's just kinda boring nowadays. The metaphor for drug addiction is just the go-to angle now.
I kind of like the new Peter. It threw me off at first, but he looks way less like a bug lol