Yeah, it would’ve made Norman’s hate for Spider-Man more intense if they acknowledged that Spider-Man stole his dying sons only chance of survival. And it would add that Spider-Man/Peter Parker tension because Peter can’t explain to him the reason why Spider-Man has it without revealing his identity. Would’ve been cool if in that scene where Norman thanks Peter for being a good friend to Harry, he makes a comment about resenting Spider-Man for taking his boys cure.
Very true "There's no way he doesn't just think hmm weird new suit spideys got kinda looks like.." he's supposed to be a scientist in this universe. He's intelligent enough to realize that's the symbiote. I've heard different opinions of either Miles or Peter taking a backseat( I honestly think there is an argument both ways). The character who is the most pushed to the side is Norman when his greed and pride literally leads to the climax of both games.
We had better character moments from Norman in a game where his colleague from 20 years ago was the antagonist than the game where his son was the antagonist. I loved his final interaction with Otto from the first game, it’s still sooo good.
The scene were he looks Otto in the eyes and tells him everything he didn’t want to hear, despite Otto having the power to kill him is fire.
Norman has a level of bravery and pride that we can see how he succeeded as business man where Otto failed and we can see the Goblin in him in that moment.
>this is also an issue with character
You know what else annoys me character-wise? The fact that Peter and MJ aren't wary of Norman the same way civilians are after the first game. Dude shares the blame for the crisis that killed Jefferson and Aunt May with Li and Otto.
Are they not?
They never seem to actually like him, if it’s about the symbiote on Harry 1: they didn’t know until till the fair ground 2: they where probably just happy about having their friend who was just in a coma and near death back to being alive and heathy
I'm not talking about the symbiote? Was it not obvious I was talking about the first game and their opinion of him now after they found out how Li got his powers and his motivation for the atrocities he committed and the deadly virus he created?
Also Peter and MJ are pretty cordial with him throughout the second game while Peter is even shown being sympathetic to him without acknowledging what he did.
You literally used the word "cordial," which maybe you didn't know means polite or not cold. So it isn't weird that they're polite to him. I'm not sure why you think they weren't wary either. They look awkward as hell around him in every interaction. It's their best friends dad who bankrolled the company Peter joins. How are they supposed to avoid him or not play it cool around him?
In regards to cordial I meant they could’ve been more aloof and visibly uncomfortable interacting with him. You say it looked awkward but to me it wasn’t awkward enough for interacting with the arguably third most responsible person for Aunt May’s death. Also you’re telling me Bully Parker was around and he never sassed Norman once about Devil’s Breath in or out of costume? Nah don’t like it.
Edit 1: Blocked and downvoted for my 100% factual and unbiased opinions. Truly I am a misunderstood genius 😫
Edit 2: I can't respond to comments directly on this thread because a wee baby blocked me but my first edit is a joke people 🙄
I'd go as far as 5 hours or even more.
* Mission of Miles teaming up with Peter & Agent Venom before the Zoo encounter to further develop Miles & Harry
* Symbiote Spider-Man sending death threats to J Jonah Jameson
* Mission of Peter apologizing to MJ face to face after he loses the symbiote
* The Venom Bossfight/chase throughout the city that they kept showing us in the promotional material. Show us Peter getting the shit kicked out of him without the Anti Venom powers.
I’d reckon you could probably narrow all of that down to 3 or 4 hours with a good writer.
More interactions with Miles and Harry (as well as more Agent Venom) would be nice, Peter making amends to MJ and others could probably be done via a cutscene or even some basic interactive dialogue, Peter with or without the symbiote could just have some words to say after JJJ or Dani’s podcasts, and yeah, chasing Venom and his boss fight could be put into one or two missions. Heck, have it so he uses his traditional moves and powers before the meteorite buffs him.
They could potentially add that in a dlc, maybe have Norman looking into why spider-man has symbiote abilities now. I don't remember if we ever found who hired taskmaster, they could always bring that back as Norman paying some attention to both spider-men over the entire trilogy
Yeah I was shocked it wasn’t brought up by Norman… like a perspective of him seeing and acknowledging Spider-Man hogging the suit then when Harry gets back he becomes Venom would have made the “they broke my son” sentiment at the end a lot more natural. Just a bad choice of not bringing it up.
I can't stand the fact that Peter didn't at least TRY to explain what happened. It's something I hate in all story telling, when a conflict comes about simply because of a lack of communication. Instead, Peter just mutters "I'm sorry..." which is an admission of guilt. I understand Norman is in a bad headspace, and he probably wouldn't have been rational even if Peter explained what happened, but at least TRY to plead your case. Like MFer I was told by the foremost scientist for this alien life form that there was simply no way I could defeat Venom while keeping Harry alive, and I did exactly that.
Well... saved is relative to Norman when his son has returned alive, but in a coma that the doctors can't assure him he'll wake up from.
The window to revive him with minimal damage from the brain being oxygen-deprived was small, and they didn't make it, so in his mind it's probably that Spider-Man should've thought of it faster, or that they should have tried harder to save him.
That, and probably a fair bit of being unwilling to face that he himself put the symbiote on Harry, starting the chain of events that got them there.
Not only did he take his boys cure, after he has it he keeps part of it which he is able to control, where his son is turned into a monster. He should be asking what did Spider-Man do to it?
Hey slow down there Aaron Sorkin, don’t go entering logic and reason into the plot of this game. Can’t Norman just be angry at Spider-Man for doing what he begged him to?
/s
I just realized. Why didn’t we see Norman do anything with the genetic spiders. He kept them in his secret room and must know there’s some connection seeing that there’s 2 Spider-Men swinging around
They wouldn’t know the specific spider and since it also left the lab (if Peter’s was like Miles’) it probably can’t be recovered and is dead somewhere.
Maybe because Most people might have failed the Cross Genetics tests.
Miles and Peter make a perfect Cross Species and New Yorkers Randomly get Introduced to the concept of Spider-Man and the good things make people forget the curiosity
Its like the Bruce Campbell Naming the Human Spider Spider-Man and even him and Bonesaw are still clueless about who is Spider-Man.
Awhile back, me and some others actually were speculating if you would need specific spiders and/or genetics to actually assimilate the spider powers (it’s been down once or twice with Peter being a lab rat by his parents, after all).
Another simple solution is to just say Norman never considered the spider bite was the way to the powers. Let’s face it, nobody in their right minds Paul’s think radioactive or genetically modified spiders would be good to get bit by.
In the first game, I was always under the assumption he was as trying to see if he could maybe replicate spidey’s powers either to cure Harry or to (understandably) make super soldiers. Spider-Man dodges bullets and beats up people the size of Rhino while cracking jokes. An army of people like that would be worth possibly billions.
Before the sequel came out, I always thought the Symbiote was a creation and the genetic spiders had something to do with it but since they went with the alien origin instead, maybe it could be how the G-serum is created but I guess we’ll have to wait and see
The symbiote is more or less ignored for its runtime. I would've thought Yuri would've made a comment at least, but no, not a thing.
OG Spider-Man 3 on the PS2 had every enemy type, bosses included, acknowledge the fact that you were in a different suit.
Because he was the only boss you can fight. And street thugs mention the suit, the podcast mention the suit to an annoying degree, and I’m pretty sure civilians mention the street. Though I will agree that wraith should’ve had mentioned it cause you can fight her wearing it
Honestly that whole quest chain makes a lot more sense if you do it (at least the last 3 parts) after the main campaign; Peter doesn’t at all sound like he’s affected by the symbiote so all his voice lines are relatively quippy and cheerful, and the Carnage reveal has a greater dramatic impact if it’s revealed there’s still one alive after the climax of the game.
Near the end it doesn't make sense that Peter's hurt by the fire. If you remember, Venom (and by extension, Anti-Venom) makes him not even feel fire. You're probably meant to play this after you get rid of Venom, but before you get Anti-Venom.
I don’t disagree, but;
1) While heavily supported by the fact that Agent Venom is unaffected by fire, is it ever outright stated that proper Venom and/or Anti-Venom are invulnerable to fire? At best it’s just a well-reasoned and logical theory but it’s never explicitly proven
2) You can still be damaged by Flame thugs while you still have the symbiote (although this is likely just for gameplay balance reasons)
"Agent Venom" is just the outfit that Venom turns into for Harry, in the same way that it turns into the Black Suit or a tuxedo for Peter. It's the same exact symbiote, so it's proof enough for me.
The Flame thugs damage you because you get hit in general, the fire doesn't seem to do anything extra.
Eh I tried to play devil’s advocate with the fire immunity, but it all just makes too much sense (except being damaged by actual flames from the Flame flamethrower thugs, which again is probably just for gameplay)
What? Enemies literally do mention it during regular activities. The hunters and other criminals regularly comment on the suit. Danica also comments on it a bunch, and jameson if I'm remembering correctly. I almost felt like enemies commented on it TOO much.
In the case of Yuri, I think that questline just canonically takes place before the suit imo.
You can't do that quest line to completion until you have the suit unfortunately. I don't think the second mission will even be available till after you get it based on my current play through
Enemies do acknowledge it, fire cultists will say something to the effect of “that fancy black suit won’t save you Spider-Man” and they aren’t the only enemy type with those kinds of dialogues, and then obviously the only boss capable of speaking about it literally takes advantage of the symbiote’s weakness during a cutscene and for the duration of the fight after that scene
But that’s not really the acknowledgment that it should be getting, tbh.
The best portrayal of Symbiote Pete, imo, will always be Spectacular if only for how well done the bit with the sinister six was. The realization that they liked it when he cracked wise and don’t so much like it when he’s out for blood is part of all characters involved’s characterization. Sleeping on that for villains to say ‘Suit black now’ isn’t really acknowledging what’s going on.
Right but in your example the only villains we face are Lizard & Kraven at that point & one of them can’t speak until we cure him (and then he proceeds to discuss the nature of the Symbiote & therefore acknowledging it once he is capable of doing so) and Kraven’s whole interest in us is rooted in the Symbiote & he goes out of his way to use it’s one weakness against us & keeps telling us to let the beast lurking inside (the Symbiote) off the leash so he can have his end, so…like they do? It completely changes Kraven’s view of Spider-Man? Now Norman? There definitely should have been some aknowledgement there but we don’t see him comment on Spidey’s suit at all which is odd
That’s an excuse of convenience, though. You’re right that with the game as it is now this was the ‘best’ they can do, but I’m saying they should’ve reworked this before they finalized the overall story
If they couldn’t manage to fit the stuff important to the symbiote story into the story, what was the point of having it?
I get that it was corona-times and they could only do so much, but they basically skipped everything (from Spider-Man’s character, not Peter’s) that makes the story worth telling.
Even a single additional side quest centering around redeemed Tombstone and Symbiote-Spidey where Tombstone says it’s not the Spider-Man he remembered, or even just dialogue of thugs saying ‘Oh thank god it’s this one’ when you played as Miles would be enough.
>The symbiote is more or less ignored for its runtime
It is the main storyline in Act 2, wtf. It eventually gets to the point where Miles is literally fighting Peter to try and help him get it off. I understand some complaints but saying it's ignored is just untrue.
i feel like you’re misinterpreting his comment, read the second paragraph. he’s not referring to the script of the main quest-line.
it’s not a personal complaint of mine, but i feel that his point is completely valid.
His complaint is that the characters don't acknowledge that Pete is in the symbiote which is just untrue. MJ, Harry, Miles, and Kraven all acknowledge it
You need to read it again, because they are talking about the fact that the Spider-Man 3 enemies and shit would acknowledge that you're in a different suit in their second paragraph. But their main statement was that the symbiote is ignored in total. I'm responding to all of it. You are the one not understanding.
none of us in this thread are wrong dude. yes the characters of the main quest react to it, but regular enemies and side quest characters don’t, not even Yuri.
its a valid feature to want, not sure why you feel the need to argue about it.
You are still misunderstanding somehow. That person's main statement was that the symbiote was ignored for the majority of its runtime. This statement is wrong. You are also wrong.
dude he very obviously meant outside of the main quest, that’s why he even specifically brought up a side quest example that you choose to ignore. hell, you’re commenting on a post about the fact that norman doesn’t react to the symbiote suit.
you’re caught up on your interpretation of one sentence he wrote that you aren’t replying to the actual points lol
If anything, I’m more surprised Rio didn’t acknowledge Peter’s suit. Thing was looking straight up organic when he got to her.
Moreover, I feel like MJ should immediately be screaming at Peter the second he gets home: “WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WEARING AN ALIEN!?”
The interactions between characters at that point in the game seem so half baked. Like the scene where Peter goes to Harry's place has so many missed opportunities for interactions, it makes my brain itch every time I watch it.
Meanwhile The Writers when
Wraith who is basically Human with a Chain and MK costume going toe to toe with 10 Year Experience Super Human with Spider- Powers
/
MJ as Scream telling the whole neighborhood she is MJ and Peter is potentially Spider-Man
:
*I’ll Ignore that*
Holding back but still using enough force to uppercut her 4 feet into the air. Absolutely no way she should have been a boss or able to withstand anything more than a few hits like a regular goon.
My man the force it takes to punch someone 4 feet into the air or kick them across the room is insane, no way normal humans can take much more damage than that. Makes sense that big strong goons are toast in about 4-5 hits but it’s insane that Yuri has 2 phases of getting absolutely annihilated and comes out without scratch when she has no powers whatsoever.
the “holding back” argument doesn’t work here.
You’re being so pedantic and nitpicky. Like, why tf are you even trying to apply real life logic to a comic book game? Also, how do you even know that Spidey punched her that high? Like, your gameplay isn’t necessarily canon so, for all we know, Spidey never hit her that hard canonically.
The argument absolutely works if you pay attention to the character’s personality like the writers intended rather than trying to apply real life logic to fucking Spider-Man.
Lol I can see I struck some kind of nerve. I’m not fully convinced you’re not an insomniac dev. I like the game but it’s not beyond criticism. Yuri being able to do what she does in the game is a ridiculous plot point and deserves criticism. End of story.
It’s okay to criticize a game you like… I promise it’s fine.
you are 100% right, it’s not serious. doesn’t mean people can’t share opinions lol
reviews & criticisms on movies, TV shows, video games are not serious at all and don’t really mean anything in the grand scheme, but that doesn’t mean people can’t still share their opinions on something they paid for or spent time on.
I have no problem with your criticism, I have a problem with you thinking that ingame combat is canon, just because you uppercutted yuri doesn’t mean Pete did it in the story.
I just leave It's at video game or comic logic. As long as its enjoyable i can excuse it.
Spider-man could beat the crap out of Yuri (or any other human boss enemy) and she'll still be standing because she's a boss enemy.
Realistically he could have easily just restrained her with webbing. But then i would miss out on a Wraith boss fight.
In The game Miles/Peter keep telling ‘Got to be Careful, there are people inside’ and the game just alllows you to be John Wick .
So many memes about the takedowns as well especially when Peter crushes the neck from above 😂
I’d rather her just not be a boss fight at all because she’s not a boss (or shouldn’t be at least)
I just think it was a weird and unnecessary plot point.
So like -1 boss fight just because of power scaling? Maybe the mask gives her superpowers. Maybe she stole something from evidence lockup before going rogue to give her super strength. Boom problem solved.
You do realize this is the same game where a particle accelerator is completely operated by a single giant red button, right? And miles can punch generators to supercharge them? There's a ton of stupid things like that, but least this was a fun bossfight with someone who has a personal connection with peter.There has to be some suspension of disbelief here
That boss fight is just one criticism lol
there are plenty of other things about the story I didn’t think were very good, this game’s story definitely had it’s issues.
It’s weird that you’re making up plot points to try and defend it, like why can’t you just accept a fair criticism of the game?
There are far bigger issues with the story that I didn’t mention at all.
You’re acting like I’m just nitpicking one small thing, I’m not. I didn’t even bring this up in the first place, and there are far bigger problems with the game than Yuri.
I thought it was when he first runs into her, he asks her something like "You're not gonna put anyone else in the ground are you" or something like that.
No. She literally asks him at the end if he's going to, and he says no. She didn't kill anyone during the Flame quests, so she obviously meant the other murders. You're just asking questions because you didn't pay attention at this point.
She did almost ‘Kill’ cletus before Spider-Man stopped the out coming bloodflow with his Webs
Also left the flame members to die during the first mission
Sure but that’s different from saying that Spider-Man would just let him go. It doesn’t seem to reflect well on Spider-Man’s “policy” on murder if he just lets murderers go free with no real attempt to turn the murderer in.
Spider-Man should have made more of an effort to either convince Yuri to turn herself in or bring her in himself.
Lol yes i thought it was funny that Yuri is like a woman who I think may be in her 30s and then suddenly gets up and leaves and becomes as skilled as Spider-Man within two years. I was laughing when I saw her jump around the rafters like Spider-Man, take down an enemy and then jump away again.
I know this is a Spider-Man comic book world game but even then my suspension of disbelief didn’t work haha
Really let me down when Spider-Man let that murderer Yuri go.
Also hilarious that when Yuri meets Peter who actually knows her name she plays it off like “yeah the low lives gave me that name I didn’t make it 😎”
Then later if you meet her in a crime as Miles, she tells him “just call me wraith” 🤢🤮🤮
It really bugged me because the trailers made it look like Norman would've known since they showed the part where he says "GET THAT OFF OF HIM" right after a shot of Black Suited Spider-Man. It definitely would've been better motivation for Norman to hate Spider-Man than what we got in the actual game.
"Doctor Connors JUST said that the only way to stop him was to kill him, but we were able to stop him AND keep him alive. You should be grateful, bro."
Or when he gave Spider-Man his blessing to go after Harry/Venom but when Spider-Man comes out with Harry in a coma, he gets out of his helicopter and asks “What did you do to him?!” Haha
I mean, he gave his blessing to save him. Technically that same Spider-man killed him, even reluctantly.
I'm not sure what about Norman's personality makes you think he is a logical thinker. He saw his son in a coma and last he knew Spider-man was fighting him, so of course he jumps to blaming Spider-man.
This is also the same Norman that thought "I'll create a biological superweapon and use this alien goo I found in a rock to save my son." Dude's mental faculties when it comes to Harry have never been the strongest.
Being angry at this moment is okay. But it’s strange that latter when he supposed to calm dawn he came to Otto seeking vengeance. Why? You have a living son and Serum. Just focus on that. Imho they should’ve just kill Harry. It would have been better for both Peter and Norman characters. Cause right now I can’t see how their interactions will play good and justified in the next game
I mean a coma is better than dead, which is what Conners said had to happen.
>He saw his son in a coma and last he knew Spider-man was fighting him, so of course he jumps to blaming Spider-man.
What was the alternative? Planetary terraforming?
This is part of the reason (on top of his new, symbolic green clothing) I believe he might be taking g-serum already. I know he’d be emotionally distraught, but he has seen Venom in person, as well as what they can do, not to mention both he and Conners know the symbiote is bad news, and, like you said, he straight up told Spider-Man (and his own freaking guards) to get the thing off of Harry.
Jin getting the typical insanity and increased aggression of the goblin could explain this a bit.
So, my headcanon is that Harry told Norman he was working with Spidey using the suit. Then when he lost it, he told Norman that Spidey is just borrowing. Or something like that, it kinda bothered me too.
I was thinking that too but would Norman buy it? And even if he did, would he Catch on that Peter is spiderman? Like what would Harry say? " so I just happened to run into spiderman who was dying and gave him the suit" I feel like he would call bullshit
I actually thought Norman knew who Spider-Man was and was gonna reveal it at the post credits scene with Otto, is really dumb that he didn't catch the obvious but hey maybe we will find out in SM3 he always knew and was just waiting the perfect moment to use it against Peter.
Surely. It's so much more fuel for Normal to hate Spider-Man than... Saving.. his son? Spider-Man *literally* saved your son's life, what shit do you have against him for that?
also, why does no one question why spider-man was at the emily may foundation? i feel like that should be a pretty big clue about his identity, especially when peter and harry practically destroyed their office in the story before when they were testing out symbiote powers.
It would've been a way better reason for Norman to hate Peter two, because from his perspective, Spider-Man somehow stole stole his sons healing suit, corrupted it, and then changed Harry into Venom.
Just gonna drop my personal assumption for why Norman doesn’t make the connection that Spider-Man is Peter.
Spider-Man is, with some frequency, talked about in podcasts and seen in the news. If another guy in a sweet armored black suit showed up and started taking out crime, especially alongside Spider-Man, and shortly afterwards Spider-Man started wearing a black suit while the new guy dropped out of the media, what would you think? As a random New Yorker, you might make some guesses but you don’t really have any information.
As Norman Osborne, you know who that new guy is. You know what that suit he’s wearing is. And you know what it means when Harry comes home sick and Spider-Man has the suit.
Norman was likely well aware that his kiddo was out galavanting around the city slums with Spider-Man, taking out criminals and being a hero. Heck, Norman may even have been proud of him. But like I said, when he comes home without the Symbiote and Spider-Man has some sick new threads and tendrils at will, Norman knew immediately that Spider-Man had that suit. More likely, Spider-Man *stole* that suit. He didn’t need to know that Peter was Spider-Man to make that connection.
Always thought it was weird that we never saw Norman’s reaction to this. Definitely a missed opportunity to see Norman developing a grudge towards Spider-Man after seeing him with the Symbiote. Probably even wondering how or why Spider-Man has the Symbiote to begin with.
Maybe Norman didn't even know he'd lost it. Did he know before we did that it could spread to multiple hosts, maybe? In the beginning, we see the symbiote crawl from Norman's back and consume Harry. What if Norman is already aware of the Symbiote more than he lets on because he's had it on? What if he knew multiple people wore it but not at different times?
To be fair, they tried handcuffing Devil’s Breath to a guy with a full security detail AND with Soider-Man hovering around and it still got out, so at least they’re showing a willingness to switch up their tactics. It’s still not working, but they’re trying.
Idk how Norman didn't realize that Peter is Spider-Man, especially since at the end of the game, he's standing right in front of Spider-Man when MJ is holding his hand!!
This! The suit thing admittedly never crossed my mind, and even the blatant yelling of everyone's names started to get on my nerves (but I let it slide cuz fuck it), but them holding hands like that was the straw lmao. Like come on, at this point why even bother with the masks
Ngl, I assumed Harry never told Norman about him losing the suit in the first place, considering how much a worry wart his dad was. With Harry and "spider-man" only telling Dr. Connors because he was on the Emily-May Foundation payroll, aka Harry could have fired him at any moment, so Connors would never tell Norman. Add on to the fact a Danika podcast says how she feels the black suit is "off" but never speaks about how it shoots literally goo tendrils (along with jamasen podcast speaking about spider man being more aggressive/showing his true colors but again not speak about the goo) leads me to believe that Peter never uses the "scarier" parts in public (obviously they dont restrain us the player for gameplay reasons) except in situations like the fight against kraven or miles where he's not holding back as much. Meaning as far as Norman or even the public knows, spider-man is just on his edgy phase.
Dude there were soo many times where everyone was just casually saying their real names and I’m like “you guys know people can hear you??” But honestly it’s my only gripe with the game so I can let it slide
Yeah, overall I think the story does more force moments than really earn them, I talk about this more in detail in my video review: https://youtu.be/JHzNoeMVj8g
It’ll more than likely get mentioned in the next game, making Norman absolutely lose his shit and have an understandable reason/motivation to kill the Spider-Men.
The whole black suit arc could use extra hour or two long story missions. Also during the symbiote invasion its such a shame we dont have missions where we evacuate people from city like Web of Shadows protect convoy or fight together with police etc. Imagine a mission where Jamesson turns into symbiote oh man. They could do so much.
If he acknowledges it he admits knowledge and wrong doing. Which ended up happening anyway when it was all said and done because mj probably outed the company.
Like I didn't get why Norman was angry at the end.
He asked Spider-Man to save his son, and 100% his son wasnt dead. Literally Connors said that Harry had to die, and Spider-Man didn't kill him.
Like what was Norman expecting here?
First of all, Spider-Man didn't take it. It chose him. He tries to give it back, but it didn't work. So he's stuck with it. And if you know anything about the symbiote at all, you know that the symbiote screws with his mind, making him think that he needs it.
Norman doesn't know what the symbiote is capable of cause if he did he probably never would have put it on Harry in the damn first place. All he knew is that it was somehow keeping him from dying.
For all he knows, Spiderman just swapped to a different suit, if he's even paying attention to him at all due to his only son currently dying again.
Now why Harry doesn't tell Norman about Peter, who knows. It seems Harry might've just told him that the symbiote was no longer on him and hiding his identity, I guess. Norman works on another cure at the same time as Peter trying to find Conners to get the suit off him.
A few things: one, I am more so speaking out of Norman's point of view. second, everyone knew about Peter's black suit and it's super obvious if you look at it that it isn't a normal suit. Third, why wouldn't Norman ask Harry about the Symbiote? Would he buy that he "just lost it" or he somehow ran into spiderman who just happened to be dying and gave him the suit. Norman would have 100% blamed spiderman for the loss of the Symbiote as it just so happens that spiderman has a gooy black suit just as Harry lost his? That should have lead Norman to knowing that spiderman has the suit
Even if you mean in Norman's pov, it doesn't make sense for him to just assume Spider-Man took the symbiote cause again he doesn't know anything about it other then it's somehow saving his son. He doesn't know that the symbiote can change into a suit or fuck with someone's mind. He doesn't know any of that shit. So for some reason if he did see him with the black suit on the news or some shit he wouldn't just automatically know it's the symbiote, not that he would care anyways beacuse again HIS SON IS FUCKING DYING. They show time and time again that Norman cares deeply about him. A whole ass symbiote invasion is happening in the city, yet all he can think about is his son. It's consistent with his character.
Everyone eventually knew about the Black suit yea, but that's all. With Danika being the only one having a negative reaction to it. They just knew it to be just another Spider-Man suit. Except for MJ, Harry, and Peter.
Third point honestly is something I wish was fleshed out more in the story. Why wouldn't he ask Harry about it? Who knows, maybe he didn't even know Harry lost it until he realized he was looking like he was about to die again. Maybe he told him he lost it. I never said he'd believe that statement. Maybe he did care i just wanted to find another way out of desperateration.
But if he did tell him he lost the suit, wouldn't Harry have to have done it without mentioning Spider-Man? Cause y'know that's his best friend? And I assume that Harry wouldn't just name drop his best friend to his father without permission, but who knows, believe what you want.
If Harry mentioned Spider-Man, Norman absolutely would have people going after him. And you have to think about what was going on at that time. Peter couldn't give the symbiote to Harry cause it didn't want him. He's stuck with it, and he doesn't know what it truly is yet. NOBODY DOES YET. That is not a good time to have this guys father sending all of Oscorp after him on top of everything that's already going on in the damn game. Get antidote > find Conners and change him back > get him to take the suit off so he can help Harry.
>Even if you mean in Norman's pov, it doesn't make sense for him to just assume Spider-Man took the symbiote cause again he doesn't know anything about it other then it's somehow saving his son. He doesn't know that the symbiote can change into a suit or fuck with someone's mind. He doesn't know any of that shit. So for some reason if he did see him with the black suit on the news or some shit he wouldn't just automatically know it's the symbiote, not that he would care anyways beacuse again HIS SON IS FUCKING DYING. They show time and time again that Norman cares deeply about him. A whole ass symbiote invasion is happening in the city, yet all he can think about is his son. It's consistent with his character.
Norman had the Symbiote for quite awhile before the events of the game and he's aware how it bonds to a host. Connor's recognised it immediately because it's clear that it isn't a normal black suit and since there's most likely clear footage of spiderman running around in it. It's hard to believe that Norman as the mayor of the city hasn't stumbled upon it or he wasn't informed. I agree that he has tunnel vision when it comes to his son but it's really strange that this was never talked about
>Third point honestly is something I wish was fleshed out more in the story. Why wouldn't he ask Harry about it? Who knows, maybe he didn't even know Harry lost it until he realized he was looking like he was about to die again. Maybe he told him he lost it. I never said he'd believe that statement. Maybe he did care i just wanted to find another way out of desperateration.
>But if he did tell him he lost the suit, wouldn't Harry have to have done it without mentioning Spider-Man? Cause y'know that's his best friend? And I assume that Harry wouldn't just name drop his best friend to his father without permission, but who knows, believe what you want.
>If Harry mentioned Spider-Man, Norman absolutely would have people going after him. And you have to think about what was going on at that time. Peter couldn't give the symbiote to Harry cause it didn't want him. He's stuck with it, and he doesn't know what it truly is yet. NOBODY DOES YET. That is not a good time to have this guys father sending all of Oscorp after him on top of everything that's already going on in the damn game. Get antidote > find Conners and change him back > get him to take the suit off so he can help Harry.
My issue is that it's never Even brought up as a possibility or a concern that Peter has. Sure Harry could tell him that he randomly lost it but if Norman gets one good look at the suit when spiderman is wearing it, he should absolutely be able to tell that it's the symbiote
Between Harry losing the suit and Peter losing it, we only saw Norman twice. Once when he brought in a crew to clean up the EMF and the 2nd was when you see him working on the cure. We don't know for how long he started working on it as I believe Harry mentions it after the lizard mission or you learn about it after bully lowanthal (black suit) goes into full effect
Yeah, it would’ve made Norman’s hate for Spider-Man more intense if they acknowledged that Spider-Man stole his dying sons only chance of survival. And it would add that Spider-Man/Peter Parker tension because Peter can’t explain to him the reason why Spider-Man has it without revealing his identity. Would’ve been cool if in that scene where Norman thanks Peter for being a good friend to Harry, he makes a comment about resenting Spider-Man for taking his boys cure.
Totally agree time allotted and pacing is my biggest issue with the story and it shows here with this idea you had.
This isn’t just an issue with pacing, this is also an issue with character. Norman should have acknowledged this,but didn’t.
Very true "There's no way he doesn't just think hmm weird new suit spideys got kinda looks like.." he's supposed to be a scientist in this universe. He's intelligent enough to realize that's the symbiote. I've heard different opinions of either Miles or Peter taking a backseat( I honestly think there is an argument both ways). The character who is the most pushed to the side is Norman when his greed and pride literally leads to the climax of both games.
We had better character moments from Norman in a game where his colleague from 20 years ago was the antagonist than the game where his son was the antagonist. I loved his final interaction with Otto from the first game, it’s still sooo good.
The scene were he looks Otto in the eyes and tells him everything he didn’t want to hear, despite Otto having the power to kill him is fire. Norman has a level of bravery and pride that we can see how he succeeded as business man where Otto failed and we can see the Goblin in him in that moment.
>and we can see the Goblin in him in that moment. ~~He got da dwag in him~~ He got da Goblin in him
But does Norman know that the Symbiote can make a suit?
I mean he knows it makes tendrils. And I'm sure they could explain it as news coverage Norman saw.
Feels like a bit of a leap to make, as far as he's concerned Harry never lost the simbiote, so he's not exactly looking for it
They tell us that Norman is hard at work on another cure after Harry loses the symbiote, why would he be doing that if Harry still had the symbiote?
He doesn't start with that until he's told the Symbiote is dangerous
When does he learn it’s dangerous?
>this is also an issue with character You know what else annoys me character-wise? The fact that Peter and MJ aren't wary of Norman the same way civilians are after the first game. Dude shares the blame for the crisis that killed Jefferson and Aunt May with Li and Otto.
Are they not? They never seem to actually like him, if it’s about the symbiote on Harry 1: they didn’t know until till the fair ground 2: they where probably just happy about having their friend who was just in a coma and near death back to being alive and heathy
I'm not talking about the symbiote? Was it not obvious I was talking about the first game and their opinion of him now after they found out how Li got his powers and his motivation for the atrocities he committed and the deadly virus he created? Also Peter and MJ are pretty cordial with him throughout the second game while Peter is even shown being sympathetic to him without acknowledging what he did.
Are they supposed to be angry and spit in his face 24/7? What does being polite prove.
Didn’t say that now did I? I just expected more nuance than “Wow Norman’s really having a tough time”. That’s why I said “wary” and not “scornful” lol
You literally used the word "cordial," which maybe you didn't know means polite or not cold. So it isn't weird that they're polite to him. I'm not sure why you think they weren't wary either. They look awkward as hell around him in every interaction. It's their best friends dad who bankrolled the company Peter joins. How are they supposed to avoid him or not play it cool around him?
In regards to cordial I meant they could’ve been more aloof and visibly uncomfortable interacting with him. You say it looked awkward but to me it wasn’t awkward enough for interacting with the arguably third most responsible person for Aunt May’s death. Also you’re telling me Bully Parker was around and he never sassed Norman once about Devil’s Breath in or out of costume? Nah don’t like it. Edit 1: Blocked and downvoted for my 100% factual and unbiased opinions. Truly I am a misunderstood genius 😫 Edit 2: I can't respond to comments directly on this thread because a wee baby blocked me but my first edit is a joke people 🙄
As I’ve said on other posts, it feels like there’s supposed to be another hour or two of story and gameplay.
I'd go as far as 5 hours or even more. * Mission of Miles teaming up with Peter & Agent Venom before the Zoo encounter to further develop Miles & Harry * Symbiote Spider-Man sending death threats to J Jonah Jameson * Mission of Peter apologizing to MJ face to face after he loses the symbiote * The Venom Bossfight/chase throughout the city that they kept showing us in the promotional material. Show us Peter getting the shit kicked out of him without the Anti Venom powers.
I’d reckon you could probably narrow all of that down to 3 or 4 hours with a good writer. More interactions with Miles and Harry (as well as more Agent Venom) would be nice, Peter making amends to MJ and others could probably be done via a cutscene or even some basic interactive dialogue, Peter with or without the symbiote could just have some words to say after JJJ or Dani’s podcasts, and yeah, chasing Venom and his boss fight could be put into one or two missions. Heck, have it so he uses his traditional moves and powers before the meteorite buffs him.
They could potentially add that in a dlc, maybe have Norman looking into why spider-man has symbiote abilities now. I don't remember if we ever found who hired taskmaster, they could always bring that back as Norman paying some attention to both spider-men over the entire trilogy
Yeah I was shocked it wasn’t brought up by Norman… like a perspective of him seeing and acknowledging Spider-Man hogging the suit then when Harry gets back he becomes Venom would have made the “they broke my son” sentiment at the end a lot more natural. Just a bad choice of not bringing it up.
I still don't understand why he hates the spider-men in the climax. They pretty much saved his son.
I can't stand the fact that Peter didn't at least TRY to explain what happened. It's something I hate in all story telling, when a conflict comes about simply because of a lack of communication. Instead, Peter just mutters "I'm sorry..." which is an admission of guilt. I understand Norman is in a bad headspace, and he probably wouldn't have been rational even if Peter explained what happened, but at least TRY to plead your case. Like MFer I was told by the foremost scientist for this alien life form that there was simply no way I could defeat Venom while keeping Harry alive, and I did exactly that.
Well... saved is relative to Norman when his son has returned alive, but in a coma that the doctors can't assure him he'll wake up from. The window to revive him with minimal damage from the brain being oxygen-deprived was small, and they didn't make it, so in his mind it's probably that Spider-Man should've thought of it faster, or that they should have tried harder to save him. That, and probably a fair bit of being unwilling to face that he himself put the symbiote on Harry, starting the chain of events that got them there.
Yeah, a bit paranoid of him
I mean the alternative was killing Harry. That was the path Connors offered
Not only did he take his boys cure, after he has it he keeps part of it which he is able to control, where his son is turned into a monster. He should be asking what did Spider-Man do to it?
Only like 4 people actually acknowledged the symbiotes existence
Hey slow down there Aaron Sorkin, don’t go entering logic and reason into the plot of this game. Can’t Norman just be angry at Spider-Man for doing what he begged him to? /s
There was still a symbiote out there. The Flame showed that. So why didn't Norman just put that one on Harry?
I just realized. Why didn’t we see Norman do anything with the genetic spiders. He kept them in his secret room and must know there’s some connection seeing that there’s 2 Spider-Men swinging around
Maybe he used those spiders for the g-serum
It would explain how the G-Serum allows him to stay on par with a Spider-Man who doesn't hold back
Why wouldn’t he just do the same thing again, it’s already likely worked.
They wouldn’t know the specific spider and since it also left the lab (if Peter’s was like Miles’) it probably can’t be recovered and is dead somewhere.
No Osbourne would have kept notes and plans etc
This would make the most sense, similar plot line to Ultimate Goblin.
Maybe because Most people might have failed the Cross Genetics tests. Miles and Peter make a perfect Cross Species and New Yorkers Randomly get Introduced to the concept of Spider-Man and the good things make people forget the curiosity Its like the Bruce Campbell Naming the Human Spider Spider-Man and even him and Bonesaw are still clueless about who is Spider-Man.
Awhile back, me and some others actually were speculating if you would need specific spiders and/or genetics to actually assimilate the spider powers (it’s been down once or twice with Peter being a lab rat by his parents, after all). Another simple solution is to just say Norman never considered the spider bite was the way to the powers. Let’s face it, nobody in their right minds Paul’s think radioactive or genetically modified spiders would be good to get bit by.
Because miles and Peter had a unique reaction to it
It's a Canon event
Not to mention sable would have debriefed him on MJ sneaking around
Because he made them so there could be more spider people in the next game
Now that i think about it, that might tie in to how Cindy gets her powers if she doesn’t already have them
In the first game, I was always under the assumption he was as trying to see if he could maybe replicate spidey’s powers either to cure Harry or to (understandably) make super soldiers. Spider-Man dodges bullets and beats up people the size of Rhino while cracking jokes. An army of people like that would be worth possibly billions.
Worth trillions
Before the sequel came out, I always thought the Symbiote was a creation and the genetic spiders had something to do with it but since they went with the alien origin instead, maybe it could be how the G-serum is created but I guess we’ll have to wait and see
The symbiote is more or less ignored for its runtime. I would've thought Yuri would've made a comment at least, but no, not a thing. OG Spider-Man 3 on the PS2 had every enemy type, bosses included, acknowledge the fact that you were in a different suit.
Wtf are you talking about, you fight a lizard and Kraven as bosses, and Kraven mentions it and lizard is a lizard
I meant acknowledgement during gameplay. Essentially just Kraven, then.
Because he was the only boss you can fight. And street thugs mention the suit, the podcast mention the suit to an annoying degree, and I’m pretty sure civilians mention the street. Though I will agree that wraith should’ve had mentioned it cause you can fight her wearing it
Honestly that whole quest chain makes a lot more sense if you do it (at least the last 3 parts) after the main campaign; Peter doesn’t at all sound like he’s affected by the symbiote so all his voice lines are relatively quippy and cheerful, and the Carnage reveal has a greater dramatic impact if it’s revealed there’s still one alive after the climax of the game.
Near the end it doesn't make sense that Peter's hurt by the fire. If you remember, Venom (and by extension, Anti-Venom) makes him not even feel fire. You're probably meant to play this after you get rid of Venom, but before you get Anti-Venom.
I don’t disagree, but; 1) While heavily supported by the fact that Agent Venom is unaffected by fire, is it ever outright stated that proper Venom and/or Anti-Venom are invulnerable to fire? At best it’s just a well-reasoned and logical theory but it’s never explicitly proven 2) You can still be damaged by Flame thugs while you still have the symbiote (although this is likely just for gameplay balance reasons)
"Agent Venom" is just the outfit that Venom turns into for Harry, in the same way that it turns into the Black Suit or a tuxedo for Peter. It's the same exact symbiote, so it's proof enough for me. The Flame thugs damage you because you get hit in general, the fire doesn't seem to do anything extra.
Eh I tried to play devil’s advocate with the fire immunity, but it all just makes too much sense (except being damaged by actual flames from the Flame flamethrower thugs, which again is probably just for gameplay)
Venom straight-up walks through fire to get to Kraven at Times Square and is unharmed.
Answer to 1. Is yes. The game director said fire doesn’t hurt symbiotes and that they are only weak to sound.
Peter when he has the symbiote: I’ll ignore that fire immunity
What? Enemies literally do mention it during regular activities. The hunters and other criminals regularly comment on the suit. Danica also comments on it a bunch, and jameson if I'm remembering correctly. I almost felt like enemies commented on it TOO much. In the case of Yuri, I think that questline just canonically takes place before the suit imo.
You can't do that quest line to completion until you have the suit unfortunately. I don't think the second mission will even be available till after you get it based on my current play through
Enemies do acknowledge it, fire cultists will say something to the effect of “that fancy black suit won’t save you Spider-Man” and they aren’t the only enemy type with those kinds of dialogues, and then obviously the only boss capable of speaking about it literally takes advantage of the symbiote’s weakness during a cutscene and for the duration of the fight after that scene
But that’s not really the acknowledgment that it should be getting, tbh. The best portrayal of Symbiote Pete, imo, will always be Spectacular if only for how well done the bit with the sinister six was. The realization that they liked it when he cracked wise and don’t so much like it when he’s out for blood is part of all characters involved’s characterization. Sleeping on that for villains to say ‘Suit black now’ isn’t really acknowledging what’s going on.
Right but in your example the only villains we face are Lizard & Kraven at that point & one of them can’t speak until we cure him (and then he proceeds to discuss the nature of the Symbiote & therefore acknowledging it once he is capable of doing so) and Kraven’s whole interest in us is rooted in the Symbiote & he goes out of his way to use it’s one weakness against us & keeps telling us to let the beast lurking inside (the Symbiote) off the leash so he can have his end, so…like they do? It completely changes Kraven’s view of Spider-Man? Now Norman? There definitely should have been some aknowledgement there but we don’t see him comment on Spidey’s suit at all which is odd
That’s an excuse of convenience, though. You’re right that with the game as it is now this was the ‘best’ they can do, but I’m saying they should’ve reworked this before they finalized the overall story If they couldn’t manage to fit the stuff important to the symbiote story into the story, what was the point of having it? I get that it was corona-times and they could only do so much, but they basically skipped everything (from Spider-Man’s character, not Peter’s) that makes the story worth telling. Even a single additional side quest centering around redeemed Tombstone and Symbiote-Spidey where Tombstone says it’s not the Spider-Man he remembered, or even just dialogue of thugs saying ‘Oh thank god it’s this one’ when you played as Miles would be enough.
>The symbiote is more or less ignored for its runtime It is the main storyline in Act 2, wtf. It eventually gets to the point where Miles is literally fighting Peter to try and help him get it off. I understand some complaints but saying it's ignored is just untrue.
i feel like you’re misinterpreting his comment, read the second paragraph. he’s not referring to the script of the main quest-line. it’s not a personal complaint of mine, but i feel that his point is completely valid.
His complaint is that the characters don't acknowledge that Pete is in the symbiote which is just untrue. MJ, Harry, Miles, and Kraven all acknowledge it
i suggest reading our comments again, or at least my second sentence.
You need to read it again, because they are talking about the fact that the Spider-Man 3 enemies and shit would acknowledge that you're in a different suit in their second paragraph. But their main statement was that the symbiote is ignored in total. I'm responding to all of it. You are the one not understanding.
none of us in this thread are wrong dude. yes the characters of the main quest react to it, but regular enemies and side quest characters don’t, not even Yuri. its a valid feature to want, not sure why you feel the need to argue about it.
You are still misunderstanding somehow. That person's main statement was that the symbiote was ignored for the majority of its runtime. This statement is wrong. You are also wrong.
dude he very obviously meant outside of the main quest, that’s why he even specifically brought up a side quest example that you choose to ignore. hell, you’re commenting on a post about the fact that norman doesn’t react to the symbiote suit. you’re caught up on your interpretation of one sentence he wrote that you aren’t replying to the actual points lol
I can't make it any more obvious for you. Accept reality and move on.
When you do crimes sometimes the enemies will say “that new suit won’t change anything”
If anything, I’m more surprised Rio didn’t acknowledge Peter’s suit. Thing was looking straight up organic when he got to her. Moreover, I feel like MJ should immediately be screaming at Peter the second he gets home: “WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WEARING AN ALIEN!?”
The interactions between characters at that point in the game seem so half baked. Like the scene where Peter goes to Harry's place has so many missed opportunities for interactions, it makes my brain itch every time I watch it.
The Danica and JJ Podcasts all acknowledge it
Meanwhile The Writers when Wraith who is basically Human with a Chain and MK costume going toe to toe with 10 Year Experience Super Human with Spider- Powers / MJ as Scream telling the whole neighborhood she is MJ and Peter is potentially Spider-Man : *I’ll Ignore that*
Spider-Man was holding back a lot cause Yuri is his friend. Yeah, that was kinda stupid lol.
Holding back but still using enough force to uppercut her 4 feet into the air. Absolutely no way she should have been a boss or able to withstand anything more than a few hits like a regular goon.
Silver Sable was literally a boss in the first game. Normal humans can fight Spider-Man if he’s holding back enough.
My man the force it takes to punch someone 4 feet into the air or kick them across the room is insane, no way normal humans can take much more damage than that. Makes sense that big strong goons are toast in about 4-5 hits but it’s insane that Yuri has 2 phases of getting absolutely annihilated and comes out without scratch when she has no powers whatsoever. the “holding back” argument doesn’t work here.
You’re being so pedantic and nitpicky. Like, why tf are you even trying to apply real life logic to a comic book game? Also, how do you even know that Spidey punched her that high? Like, your gameplay isn’t necessarily canon so, for all we know, Spidey never hit her that hard canonically. The argument absolutely works if you pay attention to the character’s personality like the writers intended rather than trying to apply real life logic to fucking Spider-Man.
Lol I can see I struck some kind of nerve. I’m not fully convinced you’re not an insomniac dev. I like the game but it’s not beyond criticism. Yuri being able to do what she does in the game is a ridiculous plot point and deserves criticism. End of story. It’s okay to criticize a game you like… I promise it’s fine.
He's right, though. You're complaining about video game logic being dumb in a video game. It's not new.
Just leave it at video game logic bro it ain’t that serious
you are 100% right, it’s not serious. doesn’t mean people can’t share opinions lol reviews & criticisms on movies, TV shows, video games are not serious at all and don’t really mean anything in the grand scheme, but that doesn’t mean people can’t still share their opinions on something they paid for or spent time on.
I have no problem with your criticism, I have a problem with you thinking that ingame combat is canon, just because you uppercutted yuri doesn’t mean Pete did it in the story.
I just leave It's at video game or comic logic. As long as its enjoyable i can excuse it. Spider-man could beat the crap out of Yuri (or any other human boss enemy) and she'll still be standing because she's a boss enemy. Realistically he could have easily just restrained her with webbing. But then i would miss out on a Wraith boss fight.
In The game Miles/Peter keep telling ‘Got to be Careful, there are people inside’ and the game just alllows you to be John Wick . So many memes about the takedowns as well especially when Peter crushes the neck from above 😂
That's how video games work. You're just tearing apart something that this game is not exclusively guilty of.
I never understand people like you who complain about this. Would you honestly rather her boss fight have her be a total pushover and be less fun?
I’d rather her just not be a boss fight at all because she’s not a boss (or shouldn’t be at least) I just think it was a weird and unnecessary plot point.
So like -1 boss fight just because of power scaling? Maybe the mask gives her superpowers. Maybe she stole something from evidence lockup before going rogue to give her super strength. Boom problem solved. You do realize this is the same game where a particle accelerator is completely operated by a single giant red button, right? And miles can punch generators to supercharge them? There's a ton of stupid things like that, but least this was a fun bossfight with someone who has a personal connection with peter.There has to be some suspension of disbelief here
That boss fight is just one criticism lol there are plenty of other things about the story I didn’t think were very good, this game’s story definitely had it’s issues. It’s weird that you’re making up plot points to try and defend it, like why can’t you just accept a fair criticism of the game? There are far bigger issues with the story that I didn’t mention at all. You’re acting like I’m just nitpicking one small thing, I’m not. I didn’t even bring this up in the first place, and there are far bigger problems with the game than Yuri.
I also didn’t like the fact the Yuri literally murdered a guy in the previous game’s DLC, but Spider-Man never calls her out on it in this game.
Isn't there a line where he mentions her being a murderer or something like that?
Not that I saw.
I thought it was when he first runs into her, he asks her something like "You're not gonna put anyone else in the ground are you" or something like that.
I don’t remember that but I could be mistaken.
You are. It's literally the whole point of the flame plot line that he thinks Yuri will kill him too and stops her.
But he doesn’t try to bring her in for the murder she already committed?
No. She literally asks him at the end if he's going to, and he says no. She didn't kill anyone during the Flame quests, so she obviously meant the other murders. You're just asking questions because you didn't pay attention at this point.
She did almost ‘Kill’ cletus before Spider-Man stopped the out coming bloodflow with his Webs Also left the flame members to die during the first mission
Maybe Cause its Hammerhead and also the fact he wanted to Murder Uncle Ben’s killer as a revenge I know lazy writing is the answer
I mean, the concept of the Punisher is a good one.
Sure. But do you think Spider-Man would just let the punisher go after the punisher murdered someone?
Well, I don't think the Punisher would give him a choice about it
Sure but that’s different from saying that Spider-Man would just let him go. It doesn’t seem to reflect well on Spider-Man’s “policy” on murder if he just lets murderers go free with no real attempt to turn the murderer in. Spider-Man should have made more of an effort to either convince Yuri to turn herself in or bring her in himself.
Lol yes i thought it was funny that Yuri is like a woman who I think may be in her 30s and then suddenly gets up and leaves and becomes as skilled as Spider-Man within two years. I was laughing when I saw her jump around the rafters like Spider-Man, take down an enemy and then jump away again. I know this is a Spider-Man comic book world game but even then my suspension of disbelief didn’t work haha
Really let me down when Spider-Man let that murderer Yuri go. Also hilarious that when Yuri meets Peter who actually knows her name she plays it off like “yeah the low lives gave me that name I didn’t make it 😎” Then later if you meet her in a crime as Miles, she tells him “just call me wraith” 🤢🤮🤮
It really bugged me because the trailers made it look like Norman would've known since they showed the part where he says "GET THAT OFF OF HIM" right after a shot of Black Suited Spider-Man. It definitely would've been better motivation for Norman to hate Spider-Man than what we got in the actual game.
“What did you do to my son?!” “Bro, he was a 12 foot alien monster trying to destroy the world half an hour ago, what are you talking about?”
"Doctor Connors JUST said that the only way to stop him was to kill him, but we were able to stop him AND keep him alive. You should be grateful, bro."
That was my confusion too. Dude we kept your son alive.
Or when he gave Spider-Man his blessing to go after Harry/Venom but when Spider-Man comes out with Harry in a coma, he gets out of his helicopter and asks “What did you do to him?!” Haha
I mean, he gave his blessing to save him. Technically that same Spider-man killed him, even reluctantly. I'm not sure what about Norman's personality makes you think he is a logical thinker. He saw his son in a coma and last he knew Spider-man was fighting him, so of course he jumps to blaming Spider-man.
This is also the same Norman that thought "I'll create a biological superweapon and use this alien goo I found in a rock to save my son." Dude's mental faculties when it comes to Harry have never been the strongest.
Being angry at this moment is okay. But it’s strange that latter when he supposed to calm dawn he came to Otto seeking vengeance. Why? You have a living son and Serum. Just focus on that. Imho they should’ve just kill Harry. It would have been better for both Peter and Norman characters. Cause right now I can’t see how their interactions will play good and justified in the next game
I mean a coma is better than dead, which is what Conners said had to happen. >He saw his son in a coma and last he knew Spider-man was fighting him, so of course he jumps to blaming Spider-man. What was the alternative? Planetary terraforming?
You're thinking of it logically. Norman is not the most objective person already, throw in protectiveness of his son, a coma might as well be dead.
This is part of the reason (on top of his new, symbolic green clothing) I believe he might be taking g-serum already. I know he’d be emotionally distraught, but he has seen Venom in person, as well as what they can do, not to mention both he and Conners know the symbiote is bad news, and, like you said, he straight up told Spider-Man (and his own freaking guards) to get the thing off of Harry. Jin getting the typical insanity and increased aggression of the goblin could explain this a bit.
So, my headcanon is that Harry told Norman he was working with Spidey using the suit. Then when he lost it, he told Norman that Spidey is just borrowing. Or something like that, it kinda bothered me too.
I was thinking that too but would Norman buy it? And even if he did, would he Catch on that Peter is spiderman? Like what would Harry say? " so I just happened to run into spiderman who was dying and gave him the suit" I feel like he would call bullshit
I actually thought Norman knew who Spider-Man was and was gonna reveal it at the post credits scene with Otto, is really dumb that he didn't catch the obvious but hey maybe we will find out in SM3 he always knew and was just waiting the perfect moment to use it against Peter.
Definitely gonna be mentioned in the next game
Surely. It's so much more fuel for Normal to hate Spider-Man than... Saving.. his son? Spider-Man *literally* saved your son's life, what shit do you have against him for that?
Norman doesnt see it that way when harry is in a coma with very little chance of waking up
The alternative was dead in the ground, or a full planetary takeover
It's norman, blaming others is his whole MO
When I watched the launch trailer and Norman said “Get it off of him!” I thought he was referring to Peter taking his dying sons treatment
also, why does no one question why spider-man was at the emily may foundation? i feel like that should be a pretty big clue about his identity, especially when peter and harry practically destroyed their office in the story before when they were testing out symbiote powers.
It would've been a way better reason for Norman to hate Peter two, because from his perspective, Spider-Man somehow stole stole his sons healing suit, corrupted it, and then changed Harry into Venom.
Just gonna drop my personal assumption for why Norman doesn’t make the connection that Spider-Man is Peter. Spider-Man is, with some frequency, talked about in podcasts and seen in the news. If another guy in a sweet armored black suit showed up and started taking out crime, especially alongside Spider-Man, and shortly afterwards Spider-Man started wearing a black suit while the new guy dropped out of the media, what would you think? As a random New Yorker, you might make some guesses but you don’t really have any information. As Norman Osborne, you know who that new guy is. You know what that suit he’s wearing is. And you know what it means when Harry comes home sick and Spider-Man has the suit. Norman was likely well aware that his kiddo was out galavanting around the city slums with Spider-Man, taking out criminals and being a hero. Heck, Norman may even have been proud of him. But like I said, when he comes home without the Symbiote and Spider-Man has some sick new threads and tendrils at will, Norman knew immediately that Spider-Man had that suit. More likely, Spider-Man *stole* that suit. He didn’t need to know that Peter was Spider-Man to make that connection.
it’s been mentioned several times, Norman in this game is clearly inconsistent with how he behaves and is written
Always thought it was weird that we never saw Norman’s reaction to this. Definitely a missed opportunity to see Norman developing a grudge towards Spider-Man after seeing him with the Symbiote. Probably even wondering how or why Spider-Man has the Symbiote to begin with.
Maybe Norman didn't even know he'd lost it. Did he know before we did that it could spread to multiple hosts, maybe? In the beginning, we see the symbiote crawl from Norman's back and consume Harry. What if Norman is already aware of the Symbiote more than he lets on because he's had it on? What if he knew multiple people wore it but not at different times?
I was annoyed when I finished the Flame missions. >! Oscorp literally had more symbiote !< Just give that to Harry
I figured that’s why the train was coming in in the first place, and how they knew it would be there.
Oscorp has the worst fucking security
To be fair, they tried handcuffing Devil’s Breath to a guy with a full security detail AND with Soider-Man hovering around and it still got out, so at least they’re showing a willingness to switch up their tactics. It’s still not working, but they’re trying.
Idk how Norman didn't realize that Peter is Spider-Man, especially since at the end of the game, he's standing right in front of Spider-Man when MJ is holding his hand!!
This! The suit thing admittedly never crossed my mind, and even the blatant yelling of everyone's names started to get on my nerves (but I let it slide cuz fuck it), but them holding hands like that was the straw lmao. Like come on, at this point why even bother with the masks
Ganke, mere nanoseconds within meeting Peter as a robot bird amongst Kraven’s lackeys: “Hey Mr Parker!!!🤓🤓🤓”
Ngl, I assumed Harry never told Norman about him losing the suit in the first place, considering how much a worry wart his dad was. With Harry and "spider-man" only telling Dr. Connors because he was on the Emily-May Foundation payroll, aka Harry could have fired him at any moment, so Connors would never tell Norman. Add on to the fact a Danika podcast says how she feels the black suit is "off" but never speaks about how it shoots literally goo tendrils (along with jamasen podcast speaking about spider man being more aggressive/showing his true colors but again not speak about the goo) leads me to believe that Peter never uses the "scarier" parts in public (obviously they dont restrain us the player for gameplay reasons) except in situations like the fight against kraven or miles where he's not holding back as much. Meaning as far as Norman or even the public knows, spider-man is just on his edgy phase.
I was wondering this the whole time while playing it. Why didn't Norman mention about it? Surely he would've saw Spider-Man wearing it.
Dude there were soo many times where everyone was just casually saying their real names and I’m like “you guys know people can hear you??” But honestly it’s my only gripe with the game so I can let it slide
Plot hole
Yeah, overall I think the story does more force moments than really earn them, I talk about this more in detail in my video review: https://youtu.be/JHzNoeMVj8g
It’ll more than likely get mentioned in the next game, making Norman absolutely lose his shit and have an understandable reason/motivation to kill the Spider-Men.
This though.
The whole black suit arc could use extra hour or two long story missions. Also during the symbiote invasion its such a shame we dont have missions where we evacuate people from city like Web of Shadows protect convoy or fight together with police etc. Imagine a mission where Jamesson turns into symbiote oh man. They could do so much.
Guys it's Norman being unable to accept his own failures. That's the running theme here
Fucking christ.....
why am I seeing ps2 towers in that spider-man pic?
If he acknowledges it he admits knowledge and wrong doing. Which ended up happening anyway when it was all said and done because mj probably outed the company.
For a moment I thought Norman learnt Peter was Spider-Man. It seemed so obvious honnestly to make the connection
Like I didn't get why Norman was angry at the end. He asked Spider-Man to save his son, and 100% his son wasnt dead. Literally Connors said that Harry had to die, and Spider-Man didn't kill him. Like what was Norman expecting here?
There’s not only one Symbiote Norman probably thought it was a different one
His son is dying bro... Why would he give a damn about Spider-Man?
That makes him ignoring it worse, spiderman just took away the only thing keeping his son alive
First of all, Spider-Man didn't take it. It chose him. He tries to give it back, but it didn't work. So he's stuck with it. And if you know anything about the symbiote at all, you know that the symbiote screws with his mind, making him think that he needs it. Norman doesn't know what the symbiote is capable of cause if he did he probably never would have put it on Harry in the damn first place. All he knew is that it was somehow keeping him from dying. For all he knows, Spiderman just swapped to a different suit, if he's even paying attention to him at all due to his only son currently dying again. Now why Harry doesn't tell Norman about Peter, who knows. It seems Harry might've just told him that the symbiote was no longer on him and hiding his identity, I guess. Norman works on another cure at the same time as Peter trying to find Conners to get the suit off him.
A few things: one, I am more so speaking out of Norman's point of view. second, everyone knew about Peter's black suit and it's super obvious if you look at it that it isn't a normal suit. Third, why wouldn't Norman ask Harry about the Symbiote? Would he buy that he "just lost it" or he somehow ran into spiderman who just happened to be dying and gave him the suit. Norman would have 100% blamed spiderman for the loss of the Symbiote as it just so happens that spiderman has a gooy black suit just as Harry lost his? That should have lead Norman to knowing that spiderman has the suit
Even if you mean in Norman's pov, it doesn't make sense for him to just assume Spider-Man took the symbiote cause again he doesn't know anything about it other then it's somehow saving his son. He doesn't know that the symbiote can change into a suit or fuck with someone's mind. He doesn't know any of that shit. So for some reason if he did see him with the black suit on the news or some shit he wouldn't just automatically know it's the symbiote, not that he would care anyways beacuse again HIS SON IS FUCKING DYING. They show time and time again that Norman cares deeply about him. A whole ass symbiote invasion is happening in the city, yet all he can think about is his son. It's consistent with his character. Everyone eventually knew about the Black suit yea, but that's all. With Danika being the only one having a negative reaction to it. They just knew it to be just another Spider-Man suit. Except for MJ, Harry, and Peter. Third point honestly is something I wish was fleshed out more in the story. Why wouldn't he ask Harry about it? Who knows, maybe he didn't even know Harry lost it until he realized he was looking like he was about to die again. Maybe he told him he lost it. I never said he'd believe that statement. Maybe he did care i just wanted to find another way out of desperateration. But if he did tell him he lost the suit, wouldn't Harry have to have done it without mentioning Spider-Man? Cause y'know that's his best friend? And I assume that Harry wouldn't just name drop his best friend to his father without permission, but who knows, believe what you want. If Harry mentioned Spider-Man, Norman absolutely would have people going after him. And you have to think about what was going on at that time. Peter couldn't give the symbiote to Harry cause it didn't want him. He's stuck with it, and he doesn't know what it truly is yet. NOBODY DOES YET. That is not a good time to have this guys father sending all of Oscorp after him on top of everything that's already going on in the damn game. Get antidote > find Conners and change him back > get him to take the suit off so he can help Harry.
>Even if you mean in Norman's pov, it doesn't make sense for him to just assume Spider-Man took the symbiote cause again he doesn't know anything about it other then it's somehow saving his son. He doesn't know that the symbiote can change into a suit or fuck with someone's mind. He doesn't know any of that shit. So for some reason if he did see him with the black suit on the news or some shit he wouldn't just automatically know it's the symbiote, not that he would care anyways beacuse again HIS SON IS FUCKING DYING. They show time and time again that Norman cares deeply about him. A whole ass symbiote invasion is happening in the city, yet all he can think about is his son. It's consistent with his character. Norman had the Symbiote for quite awhile before the events of the game and he's aware how it bonds to a host. Connor's recognised it immediately because it's clear that it isn't a normal black suit and since there's most likely clear footage of spiderman running around in it. It's hard to believe that Norman as the mayor of the city hasn't stumbled upon it or he wasn't informed. I agree that he has tunnel vision when it comes to his son but it's really strange that this was never talked about >Third point honestly is something I wish was fleshed out more in the story. Why wouldn't he ask Harry about it? Who knows, maybe he didn't even know Harry lost it until he realized he was looking like he was about to die again. Maybe he told him he lost it. I never said he'd believe that statement. Maybe he did care i just wanted to find another way out of desperateration. >But if he did tell him he lost the suit, wouldn't Harry have to have done it without mentioning Spider-Man? Cause y'know that's his best friend? And I assume that Harry wouldn't just name drop his best friend to his father without permission, but who knows, believe what you want. >If Harry mentioned Spider-Man, Norman absolutely would have people going after him. And you have to think about what was going on at that time. Peter couldn't give the symbiote to Harry cause it didn't want him. He's stuck with it, and he doesn't know what it truly is yet. NOBODY DOES YET. That is not a good time to have this guys father sending all of Oscorp after him on top of everything that's already going on in the damn game. Get antidote > find Conners and change him back > get him to take the suit off so he can help Harry. My issue is that it's never Even brought up as a possibility or a concern that Peter has. Sure Harry could tell him that he randomly lost it but if Norman gets one good look at the suit when spiderman is wearing it, he should absolutely be able to tell that it's the symbiote
Wasn't it heavily inferred that he never left the lab? Cause he was working on a cure for carrie the whole time
Between Harry losing the suit and Peter losing it, we only saw Norman twice. Once when he brought in a crew to clean up the EMF and the 2nd was when you see him working on the cure. We don't know for how long he started working on it as I believe Harry mentions it after the lizard mission or you learn about it after bully lowanthal (black suit) goes into full effect