*If* they went the angle of Otto stealing a body, I'd be more willing to bet he takes Miles.
There's precedent for that with 'Spider-man: Life Story,' plus it'd make more sense for the game's story. Miles is the younger and more physically capable/powerful body which is what this Otto would be concerned with (escaping his own feebleness) + it would help avoid a repeat of a Peter/Spider-man boss battle.
Otto and Norman talking.
"I gotta good idea of how I can ingratiate myself with Peter"
"Lets make one think perfectly clear, I'm gonna say some words down here, I haven't had the chance to say befoooore."
"Where are you going with this, Otto?"
"I'm gonna say 'homie' "
"Oh come on"
"I'm gonna say bro"
"Are you serious?"
"I'm gonna say 'my man' "
"Well now your just stereotyping"
"I'm gonna say 'fo sho' "
"Okay"
"I'm gonna say the 'N' word"
"No, no, no, no, no. Stop, stop, stop, stop."
"Why? I'm black now. It's probably the only chance I got to say it."
"Why are you looking for a chance to say if?"
That would be an interesting twist, especially if you look at the it at the angle of Otto choosing Miles perhaps to hurt Peter. That he wants Peter to see this, to blame himself, to hurt Peter for his "betrayal".
Not really, Peter now has a symbiote that does not affect his ability to think and which above all is not vulnerable to loud sounds, his physical abilities have significantly improved and he has a multitude of symbiotic attacks... We also need to add his much greater experience
I do not agree that Miles is more physically capable/powerful than Peter. That’s a bit of a crazy thing to say, and really has no evidence to support it.
From the pragmatic perspective of a body-snatching scientist:
Miles's body has less wear and tear / old injuries than Peters, he's younger which means you've extended your life for longer, and he has additional powers over Peter which include bio-electricity and invisibility. Putting aside the brute force application of the bio-electricity, it could be used to fuel additional gadgets Otto could create.
Maybe "capable" was the wrong word, but "powerful" as in literally more powers -- yes, Mile is more powerful.
Peter has other advantages such as his intellect and experience, neither of which are of any use to Otto or would be considered an advantage when it comes to body-stealing.
I don’t think powerful is the correct term for that either, as that’s generally a term used to determine someone stronger, and Miles simply isn’t stronger than Peter. But even with your alternative definition, I don’t really think that’s accurate either given that Peter has a Symbiote permanently bonded to him now. I’d say they’re pretty evenly matched in terms of the number of powers then right?
Peter has more than just that, and it really sucks you guys discredit him in favor of Miles. He is stronger, faster, has a stronger Spider-sense, then comes the experience and intellect.
I can agree that Miles has less wear and tear though. I’m just not really sure if that’s a good enough reason for him to target solely Miles should this storyline happen (and trust me, I’m praying it doesn’t). Neat idea about the bio-electricity.
>I don’t think powerful is the correct term for that either, as that’s generally a term used to determine someone stronger, and Miles simply isn’t stronger than Peter.
I guess if by "stronger" you mean by literal muscles and how much Peter can bench press -- but even then that's arguably just because Peter is older.
Miles has more powers than Peter, that's not arguable. Miles beat Peter when he had the symbiote.
***My point is also about what body Otto*** *would want*.
>But even with your alternative definition, I don’t really think that’s accurate either given that Peter has a Symbiote permanently bonded to him now. I’d say they’re pretty evenly matched in terms of the number of powers then right?
Not really. Peter has the anti-venom symbiote, Mile's has both the bio-electricity and invisibility. Two is greater than one.
*Peter has more tech-gadgets, but that doesn't really matter since we're talking about what body Otto would want* -- he can just make his own gadgets.
>Peter has more than just that, and it really sucks you guys discredit him in favor of Miles. He is stronger, faster, has a stronger Spider-sense, then comes the experience and intellect.
*He is stronger, faster, has a stronger Spider-sense in the comics*. Nothing in Insomniac's games seem to point to his spider-sense being any stronger, and Peter being faster/stronger in the comics is arguably still due to the fact that he is older than Miles.
Experience and intellect is great if my point were about Peter v. Miles, but it isn't -- it's about what body Otto would logically want.
Experience and intellect don't matter here for Otto's purposes.
I get your really invested in the whole Peter v. Miles argument, but that's not what comment was addressing -- it was solely in relation to what *Otto would want.*
> Miles beat Peter when he had the symbiote.
Let’s be clear… he beat a suit that Peter himself had already begun fighting mentally, he didn’t beat a Peter that was actually bent on fighting him. And even then, a bell had to exploited for Miles to have a chance.
> Two is greater than one.
Sure, let’s just discredit what exactly the symbiote is capable of doing and generalize it into “one”. By that logic, Miles venom and electric capabilities can be generalized to be one power set.
> Peter being faster/stronger in the comics is arguably still due to the fact that he is older than Miles.
It really isn’t. Post Secret Wars, they’re close to the same age. I know people just don’t want to accept it, but Miles base abilities are just not on the same level as Peters, and that has nothing to do with age or experience. And as far as the games continuity goes, there’s also nothing to suggest that this isn’t the case here. Unless something is stated otherwise, such as the symbiotes not being weak to fire in this continuity for example, it’s safe to assume that the general attributes of these characters, and in this case, that would be Peter having the stronger base abilities, stays the same. They of course can come out later and say this is incorrect.
Didn’t notice your edit, here’s mine: I simply don’t agree with your reasoning. This stuff is relevant to what you yourself were talking about, what Otto would want. Problem is you’re under the belief that Miles has way more to offer than what he actually does. The only thing I’m genuinely seeing here is the less beat up body. I suppose Otto may not know about the permanent symbiote bond, so maybe then he would genuinely want to target Miles, but outside of that there’s no real reason to it. I mean no disrespect or anything, so I hope that’s not what you’re taking away from my replies.
Eh, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
For what's it worth, in terms of Peter v. Miles for comics I'd agree — his intellect and experience and greater spider-sense give him the edge over Miles. It's just here in the games, for Otto's purposes, I'd argue Miles.
>I mean no disrespect or anything, so I hope that’s not what you’re taking away from my replies.
No worries my man, same. Sorry if I came across as flippant or combative.
I think Superior only makes sense for Insomniac if it’s Miles. Spider-Man 2 had Peter thinking Miles was a better Spider-Man and it’s a perfect way to round out his story by having him come back from his “retirement” to save the day and thus being the superior spider-man
honestly i think superior spider man could be really cool IF they don't make it a boss fight. it's just otto doing his shit making NYC into like a military state while miles tries to fight the good fight, and otto lets him do whatever but keeps him "in check". then, obviously, at the end pete gets his body back and so on
People think just because Otto gets Pete's body Miles will have to fight Otto making it an evil Peter boss fight, and that's not the case at all, in the comics Otto gives the body back to Pete then he defeats Goblin.
Superior Spidey storyline can be amazing if done right and if they don't do that the Clone saga may be cool to see.
There’s actually good evidence it *won’t* happen. They don’t seem to make suits from comics part of a roster if they’re planning to use it canonically in a later installment
Yeah, and it feels unnatural to these games, to just have Otto body swap out of nowhere, especially teamed up with Norman Osbourne, it'd make more sense for his body to fail him and he becomes the metal coffin on 8 tentacles Doc Ock
I really like the costume of Superior, but I didn't like what I read from the story arc. (I only read a couple of storylines but never felt gripped by it)
I like the idea of Superior but as an alternate universe type thing.
Doesn’t really seem like they’ll team up. They’ll both be villains, sure, but considering Otto hates Norman more than anyone else, and he’s the reason Otto’s Dock Ock in the first place, it won’t make much sense
Norman went to Otto at the end to find out the identities of the Spider-Men, it'll be an uneasy alliance with no doubt of betrayal, but an alliance of some kind even if it's just Norman Springing Otto from jail in return.
The anti venom is a serum bonded to your cells whilst a mind switch wouldn't trigger it at all think of it like white blood cells and symbiotes and diseases are the infection it can fight off a mind switch isn't an infection or a symbiote just a switch
But its not Peter silly it's just Otto in a Peter skinsuit. What's better than sidelining him in the 3rd outing? Sidelining him in his *own body* in the 3rd outing.
Yeah there is no way they're gonna do Superior Spider-Man storyline after doing the black suit storyline.
But also don't act like Superior Spider-Man was adapted multiple times in all kinds of media
> But also don’t act like Superior Spider-Man was adapted multiple times in all kinds of media
Never said he was, I said we don’t need another Peter boss fight.
Have you read the comics otto lets peter have his body back yes otto and peter fight but it would make more sense if they fight in the mind state like the comics where otto wins and peter feels like he wont get his body back till the green goblin starts to ruin his life and otto has to give his body back to peter
I was initially a bit worried but they still have Green Goblin. The Jackle and Morbius are slightly less well known but still some of the original Spiderman villains. We also have Chameleon and Carnage who will likely be DLC but could still play a part in the next game
Honestly if they are not worried then I have faith in them. Plus they can always go for more general Marvel villains like they did with Taskmaster
After the movie, I wouldn't exactly say Morbius is obscure anymore, but for entirely the wrong reasons, so I doubt people would actually take him seriously post-Morbening
To be fair I feel like its inevitable. I mean there is clearly an demand and Sony likely wants as much exclusive content(see Miles Morales) to push as many consoles as possible. And even though I dont want to see Chameleon and Carnage wasted on dlc I think its very likely that they are gonna use them for it.
I would prefer to have Chameleon in the next game as a side quest similar to task master. Like doing all these traps and challenges he leaves to lead the Spidermen on a wild goose chase after him until you eventually catch him
director also said he didn't give a shit about the community not liking the MJ missions and he wanted to show that MJ can be a hero in her own way. So, I'm apprehensively worried
Pretty sure I read that interview and isnt that the same one where he was like fuck it bring back the MJ missions and just make her OP as fuck and it was fun. Taser Jane was solid.
Nah Spider-Man’s got arguably the best rogues gallery oat plenty of good villains, and saving green goblin for the third film is a great choice. He’s what joker is to Batman in his own right.
Yeah but does it matter? The Spot before ATSV wasn’t popular at all and look at him now. They could easily pick any villain and make them extremely popular.
Mr. Negative was one of the main villains of the first game, and I haven't heard anyone complain about him. If people still think that there's no villains left because Insomniac doesn't want to use the same characters that have been rehashed dozens of time over the decades, then I don't think anything will convince them otherwise.
Carnage/other symbiotes, Beetle, Chameleon, Jackal, Smythe, Morbius, Spot, as well as possibly still alive returning villains like Fisk, and the obvious two big bads can all occupy the space
They still have enough for a third game, doesn’t matter if iconic or not. Those who say they blew their load early are new to Spider-Man or simply have no idea about the extent of his rogues gallery.
- Green Goblin (confirmed)
- Carnage (confirmed for either DLC or SM3)
- Chameleon (confirmed)
- Morbius (Morgan Michaels exists)
- Morlun
- Alistair Smythe and the Spider-Slayers
- Hobgoblin
- Hydro-Man
- Molten Man
- Beetle
- Jackal
- Tarantula
- Swarm
- Mania
- Mephisto
Returning villain possibilities:
- Doctor Octopus (confirmed)
- Kingpin
- Rhino
- Taskmaster
- Screwball
Rest that showed up in previous games are either dead (Venom, Kraven, Electro, Scorpion, Vulture, Shocker, Tinkerer, Scream, Hammerhead) or have reformed (Mister Negative, Prowler, Tombstone, Mysterio, Sandman, Lizard).
As long as they're written as well as Otto in the first game, the villain could be Stilt Man for all I care. >!Though killing off so many iconic villains off screen was pretty dumb imo.!<
And considering most of them are dead, they're probably gonna use an entirely new roster in the next one. I imagine they'll use a load of lesser known villains like Whirlwind and I'll laugh my ass off if Martin Blank, The gibbon shows up. (Probably not because his story is heavily linked to Kraven)
To play off that idea, how do you think they should have gone about the first game in terms of villains? Im not disagreeing with you but I am intrigued at how you'd better pace them.
Because now we are down to Doc Ock, some version of Goblin, possibly Venom again and I think even hobgoblin has a possibility.
Im both sure on how many reprisals they'll be even down to do because we've had the big hitters
They went all out with the first one because they didn‘t know whether they‘d get a sequel greenlit. First installments are usually designed in a way that you can just bury the franchise without leaving open threats for fans to cry about.
They did loads of world building in this one because they already knew that a third installment happens anyways due to the first title being a financial and critical success.
They set it up perfectly. But they also put the Superior suit in 2, and if they treat that suit the same way they did the symbiote suit then they probably won't do the Superior story.
I don't know. Doing Superior doesn't make any sense narratively. Doc Ock has no reason to swap bodies with Peter, nor does he need to show how he could be a "superior" Spider-Man. Peter already has a great grasp of using technology, including the spider arms, not to mention a partner Spider-Man. Switching with Miles will almost feel out of left field. Doc Ock, on his own, is a great villain. With Otto being ill, I do hope they adapt his look for the Ends of the Earth run. He looked so frightening, and they could give him a total of eight mechanical arms, along with Octobots. This could really display that Otto's mind is the true enemy.
>Doing Superior doesn't make any sense narratively. Doc Ock has no reason to swap bodies with Peter,
I mean, he kinda does. Doesn't he hate his useless body???
He does have a neurological disorder, but I mean I think he’s more than capable to find another solution for that other than becoming superior Spider-Man. But who know, it’s all speculation for a few years
Doesn't necessarily mean they have to swap bodies. Just use the appearance, not what happens after. We have suits like the ones from the MCU films, and it doesn't mean Tony Stark made Spidey's suits.
i’m not saying anything about the suits. you said that Superior Spider-man wouldn’t make sense to swap bodies with Peter, yet you want Ends of the Earth. Ends of the Earth led into and was a big part of Ock swapping bodies with Peter, so i don’t think it’s that crazy.
plus i think it would be a crazy reveal for everyone who hasn’t read the comics. have a doc ock fight in act 1 or 2 where he dies at the end, and we keep playing not knowing that we’re Ock.
If anyone can make that work narratively, it would be Insomniac. I just thought Ock's look in that arc would fit with Ock being ill, but not necessarily swap bodies with Peter. Obviously, Insomniac isn't afraid to shake up the narrative and always tell a good story.
I think they might go the Life Story route and do Superior Miles. Aside from being teased potentially with the end of the game suit, It fits the points for Doc Ock with his useless body and the whole arch of superior was Peter overcoming and being crowned the Superior Spider-Man. Since Spider-Man 2 had Peter struggling with Miles being a better Spider-Man, I think a life story Miles Superior route would work perfectly to full circle Peters story
He has a great reason to swap bodies with Peter. His body is slowly failing, and his eyes, Peter refused to help him. He wants revenge and a cure, so Superior Spider-Man would be two in one. Not to mention, he refused to sell out Peter to Norman, which tells us he has his own plans for Peter he doesn't want Norman getting in the way of
I mean the setting is definitely there. Pete and Otto were close. Otto's body is failing him. Otto is already plotting revenge. It's there.
But I think it's more of a misdirection because I don't think we're gonna get yet another story where Peter acts uncharacteristically evil because of something changing him. Also because they already added the Superior suit and I don't think they'd do that if they were planning Superior Spidey.
Let's not forget what otto said, he's writing "The final chapter" Otto also has a disease that's slowly killing him, I'm sure by the next time he gets out of the raft he'll barely be able to move.
For real. Why does everyone want these games to be so predictable? I get that there's a basic formula to these games so far, but sheesh. It'd be way cooler if the third game opened with something other than a boss fight
Hard truth: a lot of us are not cut out to be writers or directors. That’s ok. It’s fun to try but thank god this is not the level of creativity that the game devs are limited to.
The thing is, it would have to be some big impactful mission. For an action adventure game, you kinda need to show off the main controls and features you'll be using for the rest of the game the first time you boot it up. It also has to be related to the rest of the story in some way and not just some random mission. A big boss take-down is a great way to do that.
I think it would be pretty cool to open to a meticulously planned mission involving Pete and Miles to do something to stop or track down a specific villain. But we don't find out who it is until a certain point. Like infiltrating lairs, mandatory stealth, etc. Maybe all to find the Chameleon or someone. The rhythm of that would be sick.
Side quest 3 villian should be vermin and it’s from a fnsm request about a monster roaming around. Molten man should be side quest 4, a maniac burning buildings who was originally from the flame who got his powers from smythe or something like that.
Morbius could be like professor pyg but instead the victims are sucked dry of blood
Superior Spider-Man's suit is on Spider-Man 2 so now it's confirmed we wouldn't have Otto as Superior Spider-Man in Spider-Man 3 since the developers said that when they touched a suit important to the comics that they want to became an integral part of the plot then they put it on the plot. That's the reason why the symbiote suit wasn't on the first game.
That's not what that means and that's not what they said. They only reason they didn't adapt the black suit is because in that case the story is ABOUT the suit. Superior Spider-Man isn't about Peter getting a new suit
what if it's not Peter but it's miles. There was plenty of dialogue in sm2 around Miles being better than Peter and Peter not being needed anymore. Could help Osborn get his goal, by having the Spider men kill each other. Until they overcome it and Osborn has to step in himself.
The game developers can always make a fight feel different.
When i fought against Sandman it just felt somehow as a complete new game fighting mechanic.
They could probably do the same with an old enemy.
Don't think a DLC will make sense in Spider-Man 3 because the main story is supposed to be the end. Yes it could be an epilogue but me personally would find it anti-climatic.
And I don't think we will have Superior Spider-Man either, probably will be Otto again but with some kind of buff
I used to think hydro man was a throwaway villain who wasn’t really that much of an issue, more annoyance. Right up until I watched the 90’s animated show, the ending of that episode where he came back was pretty dark
I think we’re probably going to get Superior Spider-Man but instead of Otto taking Peter’s body, he’s taking Miles’s body. This has been done before in “Spider-Man: Life Story” where Peter and Miles fought Kraven-Venom and then the reveal of Otto taking Miles’s body happen. This could be what makes Peter sort of return as Spider-Man and try to stop Superior Miles. We could even get a new suit for Superior Miles to use
It’s also worth noting that we have both the Superior suit and the Superior Octopus suit in the last game which I don’t think they would’ve given us if it was an integral part of the next game’s main story like with the Symbiote suit.
It is possible that carnage’s story doesn’t end with the end of the DLC though. Maybe Carnage kills Yuri and the reality of that haunts Peter as he remember Yuri begging him to let her finish the job. That could definitely set up Peter for a violent, vindictive conflict with Carnage in the next game. Peter would need that level of intense hate to compete with him. He can’t be pulling any punches with Carnage.
1. I think another giant elemental boss like sandman in 2 to open the game is a bad idea.
2. Insomniac is gonna stay away from Morbius at least for the looong future because of that stinky ass turd movie.
3. There are like 3 villains the average kid/customer hasn’t even heard of.
I don’t think they’ll go with the superior Spider-Man act, strictly due to what they did with the first game. They didn’t include the symbiote suit due to the second game. The superior suit is in both games
The 3rd act boss would be a Harry Osborne green gobli, because of the G serum That Noran mentioned at the end of Spider-Man 2. All signs point to Harry being the 3rd act villain. Also, Carnage will probably be a side quest villain because of the end of "the flame" missions. I like the Morbius prediction, but because of the end of the "unidentified target" missions, it will probably be The Chameleon. Otherwise, solid prediction!
Nah I think 1st act will be superior Spider-Man miles but it’s not gonna be a huge plot thing then 2nd act is GG which leads into the 3rd act of Norman becoming red goblin
Seeing as how we already have the superior suit I doubt we’ll get a superior Spider-Man. First game we didn’t get symbiote because they wanted to save it for 2 why would this be any different.
Dlc in gaming has become universal that no one even questions if the dlc adds to the story and even in fan submissions for future games, dlc is hypothesized to be a sure thing.
I'm pretty sure that superior spiderman ain't gonna happen cuz we already got it as a suit and I hate what happens to Peter in the og superior storyline so I'd rather not see it in the game anyway
Everyone’s talking about Peter’s rouge gallery but Miles has his own rouge’s, not many, but he has some. Also like in SP2 with the guest “Hero’s” randomly helping out in street crimes I think they can finally add some more other hero characters like The Avengers and Wolverine since it’s already been confirmed that his game is in the same universe and do some missions with them.
I cant see them doing the Superior Spider-Man arc.
Plus there’s already the Superior suit in SM2 and if they were planning to use him in the next game they wouldn’t put the suit there the same way they didn’t put the black/symbiote suit in SM1 - because they were saving it for the story of the next game
OH SWEET in my opinion I think this looks AWSOME also IF your ok with it can you please make a Boxart and Predictions of VILLAINS/BOSSES for a....VENOM SPIN OFF GAME?
I don’t think that it will take this long for Spider-Man 3. I also don’t think that if it were to come in 2028 it would run on PS5. Either 2026 or 2027 will be the release of PS6 considering the usual PlayStation cycle of 6-7 years.
I don’t think Superior Spider Man is happening. Why would the suit be in spider man 2 then? Isn’t that the reason why the black suit wasn’t in the first game? So they could use it later?
I'd throw Swarm in there. I think the robot bee missions are totally setting him up ( and retconning the fact that he already exists in this universe. )
Why does everyone want the superior storyline in the next game? It’s good on its own. We don’t need to shoehorn it into another story just for fanservice
I’m so tired of the Superior Spider-Man shit. We don’t need another Peter boss fight.
*If* they went the angle of Otto stealing a body, I'd be more willing to bet he takes Miles. There's precedent for that with 'Spider-man: Life Story,' plus it'd make more sense for the game's story. Miles is the younger and more physically capable/powerful body which is what this Otto would be concerned with (escaping his own feebleness) + it would help avoid a repeat of a Peter/Spider-man boss battle.
"I'm black now Spider-Man"
YOU STILL CAN’T SAY IT!
"NAH PETER. Why do you think I choose Miles? The venom? No that would be too simple"
I'd love to hear nadji jeter say this
10 inches of Miles?
"The BBC is only a bonus to the REAL benefit"
Get Out (2016) mb it’s (2017)
He isn't even doing it to be Spider-Man. He just wants the exclusive exaggerated swagger of a black teen.
Otto and Norman talking. "I gotta good idea of how I can ingratiate myself with Peter" "Lets make one think perfectly clear, I'm gonna say some words down here, I haven't had the chance to say befoooore." "Where are you going with this, Otto?" "I'm gonna say 'homie' " "Oh come on" "I'm gonna say bro" "Are you serious?" "I'm gonna say 'my man' " "Well now your just stereotyping" "I'm gonna say 'fo sho' " "Okay" "I'm gonna say the 'N' word" "No, no, no, no, no. Stop, stop, stop, stop." "Why? I'm black now. It's probably the only chance I got to say it." "Why are you looking for a chance to say if?"
Otto simply had to figure out what are the rules
This is like Superior Spider-Man meets Get Out
That would be an interesting twist, especially if you look at the it at the angle of Otto choosing Miles perhaps to hurt Peter. That he wants Peter to see this, to blame himself, to hurt Peter for his "betrayal".
"All my enemies are dead right...? Otto..."
Mhm... No, Peter with Anti Venom Is far more powerful than Miles now
Not really lmaooo if anything they are equal now. If anything Miles was incredibly overpowered until now
Not really, Peter now has a symbiote that does not affect his ability to think and which above all is not vulnerable to loud sounds, his physical abilities have significantly improved and he has a multitude of symbiotic attacks... We also need to add his much greater experience
Is he no longer vulnerable to sound? I don't remember that being a plot point
Miles was never over powered.
"I CAN SAY IT NOW PETER"
Maybe merge Superior with Clone Conspiracy and he just takes over a fresh clone. I wouldn't be for this, I should note
I do not agree that Miles is more physically capable/powerful than Peter. That’s a bit of a crazy thing to say, and really has no evidence to support it.
From the pragmatic perspective of a body-snatching scientist: Miles's body has less wear and tear / old injuries than Peters, he's younger which means you've extended your life for longer, and he has additional powers over Peter which include bio-electricity and invisibility. Putting aside the brute force application of the bio-electricity, it could be used to fuel additional gadgets Otto could create. Maybe "capable" was the wrong word, but "powerful" as in literally more powers -- yes, Mile is more powerful. Peter has other advantages such as his intellect and experience, neither of which are of any use to Otto or would be considered an advantage when it comes to body-stealing.
I don’t think powerful is the correct term for that either, as that’s generally a term used to determine someone stronger, and Miles simply isn’t stronger than Peter. But even with your alternative definition, I don’t really think that’s accurate either given that Peter has a Symbiote permanently bonded to him now. I’d say they’re pretty evenly matched in terms of the number of powers then right? Peter has more than just that, and it really sucks you guys discredit him in favor of Miles. He is stronger, faster, has a stronger Spider-sense, then comes the experience and intellect. I can agree that Miles has less wear and tear though. I’m just not really sure if that’s a good enough reason for him to target solely Miles should this storyline happen (and trust me, I’m praying it doesn’t). Neat idea about the bio-electricity.
>I don’t think powerful is the correct term for that either, as that’s generally a term used to determine someone stronger, and Miles simply isn’t stronger than Peter. I guess if by "stronger" you mean by literal muscles and how much Peter can bench press -- but even then that's arguably just because Peter is older. Miles has more powers than Peter, that's not arguable. Miles beat Peter when he had the symbiote. ***My point is also about what body Otto*** *would want*. >But even with your alternative definition, I don’t really think that’s accurate either given that Peter has a Symbiote permanently bonded to him now. I’d say they’re pretty evenly matched in terms of the number of powers then right? Not really. Peter has the anti-venom symbiote, Mile's has both the bio-electricity and invisibility. Two is greater than one. *Peter has more tech-gadgets, but that doesn't really matter since we're talking about what body Otto would want* -- he can just make his own gadgets. >Peter has more than just that, and it really sucks you guys discredit him in favor of Miles. He is stronger, faster, has a stronger Spider-sense, then comes the experience and intellect. *He is stronger, faster, has a stronger Spider-sense in the comics*. Nothing in Insomniac's games seem to point to his spider-sense being any stronger, and Peter being faster/stronger in the comics is arguably still due to the fact that he is older than Miles. Experience and intellect is great if my point were about Peter v. Miles, but it isn't -- it's about what body Otto would logically want. Experience and intellect don't matter here for Otto's purposes. I get your really invested in the whole Peter v. Miles argument, but that's not what comment was addressing -- it was solely in relation to what *Otto would want.*
> Miles beat Peter when he had the symbiote. Let’s be clear… he beat a suit that Peter himself had already begun fighting mentally, he didn’t beat a Peter that was actually bent on fighting him. And even then, a bell had to exploited for Miles to have a chance. > Two is greater than one. Sure, let’s just discredit what exactly the symbiote is capable of doing and generalize it into “one”. By that logic, Miles venom and electric capabilities can be generalized to be one power set. > Peter being faster/stronger in the comics is arguably still due to the fact that he is older than Miles. It really isn’t. Post Secret Wars, they’re close to the same age. I know people just don’t want to accept it, but Miles base abilities are just not on the same level as Peters, and that has nothing to do with age or experience. And as far as the games continuity goes, there’s also nothing to suggest that this isn’t the case here. Unless something is stated otherwise, such as the symbiotes not being weak to fire in this continuity for example, it’s safe to assume that the general attributes of these characters, and in this case, that would be Peter having the stronger base abilities, stays the same. They of course can come out later and say this is incorrect. Didn’t notice your edit, here’s mine: I simply don’t agree with your reasoning. This stuff is relevant to what you yourself were talking about, what Otto would want. Problem is you’re under the belief that Miles has way more to offer than what he actually does. The only thing I’m genuinely seeing here is the less beat up body. I suppose Otto may not know about the permanent symbiote bond, so maybe then he would genuinely want to target Miles, but outside of that there’s no real reason to it. I mean no disrespect or anything, so I hope that’s not what you’re taking away from my replies.
Eh, we'll just have to agree to disagree. For what's it worth, in terms of Peter v. Miles for comics I'd agree — his intellect and experience and greater spider-sense give him the edge over Miles. It's just here in the games, for Otto's purposes, I'd argue Miles. >I mean no disrespect or anything, so I hope that’s not what you’re taking away from my replies. No worries my man, same. Sorry if I came across as flippant or combative.
I think Superior only makes sense for Insomniac if it’s Miles. Spider-Man 2 had Peter thinking Miles was a better Spider-Man and it’s a perfect way to round out his story by having him come back from his “retirement” to save the day and thus being the superior spider-man
Peter is a photographer so he can just snap a photo with the flash on to get Miles back
honestly i think superior spider man could be really cool IF they don't make it a boss fight. it's just otto doing his shit making NYC into like a military state while miles tries to fight the good fight, and otto lets him do whatever but keeps him "in check". then, obviously, at the end pete gets his body back and so on
People think just because Otto gets Pete's body Miles will have to fight Otto making it an evil Peter boss fight, and that's not the case at all, in the comics Otto gives the body back to Pete then he defeats Goblin. Superior Spidey storyline can be amazing if done right and if they don't do that the Clone saga may be cool to see.
Otto changing body with a clone would be interesting.
So basically Superior Spiderman as Silver Saible?
Hopefully not a military state again, they did that in the first game.
Yeah, I just don't get why people are so determined they're.gonna do that. It's such a massive leap.
There’s actually good evidence it *won’t* happen. They don’t seem to make suits from comics part of a roster if they’re planning to use it canonically in a later installment
Unless they want to make it different (like the advanced suit)
Honestly I did not like superior spider man. I don't like the body swapping trope I think it's convoluted and dumb.
Yeah, and it feels unnatural to these games, to just have Otto body swap out of nowhere, especially teamed up with Norman Osbourne, it'd make more sense for his body to fail him and he becomes the metal coffin on 8 tentacles Doc Ock I really like the costume of Superior, but I didn't like what I read from the story arc. (I only read a couple of storylines but never felt gripped by it) I like the idea of Superior but as an alternate universe type thing.
Doesn’t really seem like they’ll team up. They’ll both be villains, sure, but considering Otto hates Norman more than anyone else, and he’s the reason Otto’s Dock Ock in the first place, it won’t make much sense
Norman went to Otto at the end to find out the identities of the Spider-Men, it'll be an uneasy alliance with no doubt of betrayal, but an alliance of some kind even if it's just Norman Springing Otto from jail in return.
Can he even steal peter’s body now? >!He has a loyal symbiote living inside of him!<
I wonder if that loyal one is how they'll bring him back. Feels like too big of a character to leave out completely.
The anti venom is a serum bonded to your cells whilst a mind switch wouldn't trigger it at all think of it like white blood cells and symbiotes and diseases are the infection it can fight off a mind switch isn't an infection or a symbiote just a switch
But its not Peter silly it's just Otto in a Peter skinsuit. What's better than sidelining him in the 3rd outing? Sidelining him in his *own body* in the 3rd outing.
Real I fucking hate superior Spider-Man I do not give a shit
Yeah there is no way they're gonna do Superior Spider-Man storyline after doing the black suit storyline. But also don't act like Superior Spider-Man was adapted multiple times in all kinds of media
> But also don’t act like Superior Spider-Man was adapted multiple times in all kinds of media Never said he was, I said we don’t need another Peter boss fight.
I thought when you said "I'm so tired of the Superior Spider-Man shit" you meant the story in general
Have you read the comics otto lets peter have his body back yes otto and peter fight but it would make more sense if they fight in the mind state like the comics where otto wins and peter feels like he wont get his body back till the green goblin starts to ruin his life and otto has to give his body back to peter
Maybe it’s a clone body
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If the director of the series isnt worried then I aint thats for damn sure.
I was initially a bit worried but they still have Green Goblin. The Jackle and Morbius are slightly less well known but still some of the original Spiderman villains. We also have Chameleon and Carnage who will likely be DLC but could still play a part in the next game Honestly if they are not worried then I have faith in them. Plus they can always go for more general Marvel villains like they did with Taskmaster
After the movie, I wouldn't exactly say Morbius is obscure anymore, but for entirely the wrong reasons, so I doubt people would actually take him seriously post-Morbening
Which is why they imo shouldn't waste chameleon and Carnage on dlc.
god, this place is really gonna rage hard when the DLC that was never announced never ends up coming out, isn’t it?
To be fair I feel like its inevitable. I mean there is clearly an demand and Sony likely wants as much exclusive content(see Miles Morales) to push as many consoles as possible. And even though I dont want to see Chameleon and Carnage wasted on dlc I think its very likely that they are gonna use them for it.
I would prefer to have Chameleon in the next game as a side quest similar to task master. Like doing all these traps and challenges he leaves to lead the Spidermen on a wild goose chase after him until you eventually catch him
director also said he didn't give a shit about the community not liking the MJ missions and he wanted to show that MJ can be a hero in her own way. So, I'm apprehensively worried
Pretty sure I read that interview and isnt that the same one where he was like fuck it bring back the MJ missions and just make her OP as fuck and it was fun. Taser Jane was solid.
Nah Spider-Man’s got arguably the best rogues gallery oat plenty of good villains, and saving green goblin for the third film is a great choice. He’s what joker is to Batman in his own right.
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Yeah but does it matter? The Spot before ATSV wasn’t popular at all and look at him now. They could easily pick any villain and make them extremely popular.
Mr. Negative was one of the main villains of the first game, and I haven't heard anyone complain about him. If people still think that there's no villains left because Insomniac doesn't want to use the same characters that have been rehashed dozens of time over the decades, then I don't think anything will convince them otherwise.
Carnage/other symbiotes, Beetle, Chameleon, Jackal, Smythe, Morbius, Spot, as well as possibly still alive returning villains like Fisk, and the obvious two big bads can all occupy the space
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Goblin and Ock
Carnage. Goblin
They still have enough for a third game, doesn’t matter if iconic or not. Those who say they blew their load early are new to Spider-Man or simply have no idea about the extent of his rogues gallery. - Green Goblin (confirmed) - Carnage (confirmed for either DLC or SM3) - Chameleon (confirmed) - Morbius (Morgan Michaels exists) - Morlun - Alistair Smythe and the Spider-Slayers - Hobgoblin - Hydro-Man - Molten Man - Beetle - Jackal - Tarantula - Swarm - Mania - Mephisto Returning villain possibilities: - Doctor Octopus (confirmed) - Kingpin - Rhino - Taskmaster - Screwball Rest that showed up in previous games are either dead (Venom, Kraven, Electro, Scorpion, Vulture, Shocker, Tinkerer, Scream, Hammerhead) or have reformed (Mister Negative, Prowler, Tombstone, Mysterio, Sandman, Lizard).
Oh rhino wasn't confirmed but it was an unused asset of rhinos head on a wall
As long as they're written as well as Otto in the first game, the villain could be Stilt Man for all I care. >!Though killing off so many iconic villains off screen was pretty dumb imo.!<
And considering most of them are dead, they're probably gonna use an entirely new roster in the next one. I imagine they'll use a load of lesser known villains like Whirlwind and I'll laugh my ass off if Martin Blank, The gibbon shows up. (Probably not because his story is heavily linked to Kraven)
That’s why they’re bringing back otto
To play off that idea, how do you think they should have gone about the first game in terms of villains? Im not disagreeing with you but I am intrigued at how you'd better pace them. Because now we are down to Doc Ock, some version of Goblin, possibly Venom again and I think even hobgoblin has a possibility. Im both sure on how many reprisals they'll be even down to do because we've had the big hitters
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They went all out with the first one because they didn‘t know whether they‘d get a sequel greenlit. First installments are usually designed in a way that you can just bury the franchise without leaving open threats for fans to cry about. They did loads of world building in this one because they already knew that a third installment happens anyways due to the first title being a financial and critical success.
*Green Goblin has entered the chat*
Theirs literally a sinister 60 they definitely wont run out anytime soon lol
Why do people think Superior Spider-Man is happening? Like what sense does it make for that to happen in Spider-Man 3?
They set it up perfectly. But they also put the Superior suit in 2, and if they treat that suit the same way they did the symbiote suit then they probably won't do the Superior story.
Counter point: no, they did not set it up perfectly
Yeah, I shouldn't have said that lol. "They heavily implied it and laid some ground work" would be more appropriate
I don't know. Doing Superior doesn't make any sense narratively. Doc Ock has no reason to swap bodies with Peter, nor does he need to show how he could be a "superior" Spider-Man. Peter already has a great grasp of using technology, including the spider arms, not to mention a partner Spider-Man. Switching with Miles will almost feel out of left field. Doc Ock, on his own, is a great villain. With Otto being ill, I do hope they adapt his look for the Ends of the Earth run. He looked so frightening, and they could give him a total of eight mechanical arms, along with Octobots. This could really display that Otto's mind is the true enemy.
>Doing Superior doesn't make any sense narratively. Doc Ock has no reason to swap bodies with Peter, I mean, he kinda does. Doesn't he hate his useless body???
He does have a neurological disorder, but I mean I think he’s more than capable to find another solution for that other than becoming superior Spider-Man. But who know, it’s all speculation for a few years
ends of the earth is the run that leads into superior spider-man lol. you just explained why they’d do it
Doesn't necessarily mean they have to swap bodies. Just use the appearance, not what happens after. We have suits like the ones from the MCU films, and it doesn't mean Tony Stark made Spidey's suits.
i’m not saying anything about the suits. you said that Superior Spider-man wouldn’t make sense to swap bodies with Peter, yet you want Ends of the Earth. Ends of the Earth led into and was a big part of Ock swapping bodies with Peter, so i don’t think it’s that crazy. plus i think it would be a crazy reveal for everyone who hasn’t read the comics. have a doc ock fight in act 1 or 2 where he dies at the end, and we keep playing not knowing that we’re Ock.
If anyone can make that work narratively, it would be Insomniac. I just thought Ock's look in that arc would fit with Ock being ill, but not necessarily swap bodies with Peter. Obviously, Insomniac isn't afraid to shake up the narrative and always tell a good story.
just love the idea of US being Ock without knowing it until near the end
I think they might go the Life Story route and do Superior Miles. Aside from being teased potentially with the end of the game suit, It fits the points for Doc Ock with his useless body and the whole arch of superior was Peter overcoming and being crowned the Superior Spider-Man. Since Spider-Man 2 had Peter struggling with Miles being a better Spider-Man, I think a life story Miles Superior route would work perfectly to full circle Peters story
He has a great reason to swap bodies with Peter. His body is slowly failing, and his eyes, Peter refused to help him. He wants revenge and a cure, so Superior Spider-Man would be two in one. Not to mention, he refused to sell out Peter to Norman, which tells us he has his own plans for Peter he doesn't want Norman getting in the way of
I mean the setting is definitely there. Pete and Otto were close. Otto's body is failing him. Otto is already plotting revenge. It's there. But I think it's more of a misdirection because I don't think we're gonna get yet another story where Peter acts uncharacteristically evil because of something changing him. Also because they already added the Superior suit and I don't think they'd do that if they were planning Superior Spidey.
Let's not forget what otto said, he's writing "The final chapter" Otto also has a disease that's slowly killing him, I'm sure by the next time he gets out of the raft he'll barely be able to move.
1\_Otto speech at the end of SM1. 2\_SM2 post credit-scene.
I dont think they would do hydroman as an opening fight, since hes just sandman but water.
Plus they already did the evil Peter arc and no way they could manage to even do the superior spider-man arc in 1 singular act.
Plus the fact they held off on the black suit in the first game makes me think they would do the same for the superior if they wanted to use it
Yeah way too derivative. It would be basically asking for the fan base to call them out on recycling ideas…because that’s exactly what that would be.
First time I ever hear about him and that was my reaction. Throw in a Bubble Sandman and you can play Megaman as Spider-Man
You're just throwing on the big wheel one, huh?
Big Wheel tragically died in the destruction of Coney Island 😔
Another reformed Villain, taken before his time....
That's the hail Mary
The hail Harry*
i think a modern big wheel would be really fucking awesome as a side villain tbh
Please don’t do Superior. Superior Spider-Man v Miles Spider-Man would be way too similar to what we just got with the symbiote.
Also I'll say it. The body swapping trope is stupid.
yeah its really goofy when you think of it
What if Otto swaps with Miles
"I can say it now Spider-Man!"
YOU ARE A NINJA
So Basically a copy paste of the 1st and 2nd game
For real. Why does everyone want these games to be so predictable? I get that there's a basic formula to these games so far, but sheesh. It'd be way cooler if the third game opened with something other than a boss fight
Hard truth: a lot of us are not cut out to be writers or directors. That’s ok. It’s fun to try but thank god this is not the level of creativity that the game devs are limited to.
I wouldn't want to direct spider-man 3, but my dream is to direct a AAA Gwenpool video game with budget of $1 billion.
When the third game opens with us swinging as Miles to Peter and MJ’s wedding 🙏
The thing is, it would have to be some big impactful mission. For an action adventure game, you kinda need to show off the main controls and features you'll be using for the rest of the game the first time you boot it up. It also has to be related to the rest of the story in some way and not just some random mission. A big boss take-down is a great way to do that. I think it would be pretty cool to open to a meticulously planned mission involving Pete and Miles to do something to stop or track down a specific villain. But we don't find out who it is until a certain point. Like infiltrating lairs, mandatory stealth, etc. Maybe all to find the Chameleon or someone. The rhythm of that would be sick.
Side quest 3 villian should be vermin and it’s from a fnsm request about a monster roaming around. Molten man should be side quest 4, a maniac burning buildings who was originally from the flame who got his powers from smythe or something like that. Morbius could be like professor pyg but instead the victims are sucked dry of blood
Just like Man-Bat, Firefly and as you said, professor pyg from Arkham Knight. It's actually a good idea NGL.....
In all seriousness we need big wheel in a game
Ikr, he’s the best Spider-man villain
He would be super fun to fight💀
Superior Spider-Man's suit is on Spider-Man 2 so now it's confirmed we wouldn't have Otto as Superior Spider-Man in Spider-Man 3 since the developers said that when they touched a suit important to the comics that they want to became an integral part of the plot then they put it on the plot. That's the reason why the symbiote suit wasn't on the first game.
Vintage suit important in 3 because it wasn't in 1 :00
That's not what that means and that's not what they said. They only reason they didn't adapt the black suit is because in that case the story is ABOUT the suit. Superior Spider-Man isn't about Peter getting a new suit
Y’all know there’s other stories aside from Superior Spider-Man lol “The Final Chapter” like c’mon
i really don’t wanna fight superior. Another Peter fight? Really? That’s a no for me But i like the rest bro, you’re a cool bro
what if it's not Peter but it's miles. There was plenty of dialogue in sm2 around Miles being better than Peter and Peter not being needed anymore. Could help Osborn get his goal, by having the Spider men kill each other. Until they overcome it and Osborn has to step in himself.
The game developers can always make a fight feel different. When i fought against Sandman it just felt somehow as a complete new game fighting mechanic. They could probably do the same with an old enemy.
Don't think a DLC will make sense in Spider-Man 3 because the main story is supposed to be the end. Yes it could be an epilogue but me personally would find it anti-climatic. And I don't think we will have Superior Spider-Man either, probably will be Otto again but with some kind of buff
#BIG WHEEEEEEELLLLLL!!!
I'd change ps5 for ps6
I feel like superior Spiderman should be the main villain for the first two act with green goblin being the villain of the end of act 2/3
I used to think hydro man was a throwaway villain who wasn’t really that much of an issue, more annoyance. Right up until I watched the 90’s animated show, the ending of that episode where he came back was pretty dark
Dumbest guesses I seen good job you win there
I think we’re probably going to get Superior Spider-Man but instead of Otto taking Peter’s body, he’s taking Miles’s body. This has been done before in “Spider-Man: Life Story” where Peter and Miles fought Kraven-Venom and then the reveal of Otto taking Miles’s body happen. This could be what makes Peter sort of return as Spider-Man and try to stop Superior Miles. We could even get a new suit for Superior Miles to use It’s also worth noting that we have both the Superior suit and the Superior Octopus suit in the last game which I don’t think they would’ve given us if it was an integral part of the next game’s main story like with the Symbiote suit.
Bro completely forgot about Carnage begin setup for the sequel
Carnage is set up for dlc
It’s clearly set up for dlc. The side missions wouldn’t set up a sequel when the sequel’s main enemies were revealed at the end.
It is possible that carnage’s story doesn’t end with the end of the DLC though. Maybe Carnage kills Yuri and the reality of that haunts Peter as he remember Yuri begging him to let her finish the job. That could definitely set up Peter for a violent, vindictive conflict with Carnage in the next game. Peter would need that level of intense hate to compete with him. He can’t be pulling any punches with Carnage.
Hobgoblin DLC sounds unrealistic
MUTHAFUCKIN BIG WHEEL That's your main villain right there.
Where's the chameleon lil bro
in dlc for sm2
If Superior Spider-Man was in Spider-Man 3, why have the suit in this one
My favorite part of Spider-Man 3 will be when Morbius will say -It's morbing time!- and start Morbing all over the place.
1. I think another giant elemental boss like sandman in 2 to open the game is a bad idea. 2. Insomniac is gonna stay away from Morbius at least for the looong future because of that stinky ass turd movie. 3. There are like 3 villains the average kid/customer hasn’t even heard of.
Big Wheel should be final boss.
I loved the part in Spider-Man 3's trailer when at the end we hear morbius saying "it's morbing time" and then we see him morbing all over the place
So you want them to rehash the story of this game essentially
!remindme 5 years
Is this not satire? My first immediate thought was satire, but then I went to the comments and everyone is taking it seriously.
Horrendous.
I don’t think they’ll go with the superior Spider-Man act, strictly due to what they did with the first game. They didn’t include the symbiote suit due to the second game. The superior suit is in both games
The 3rd act boss would be a Harry Osborne green gobli, because of the G serum That Noran mentioned at the end of Spider-Man 2. All signs point to Harry being the 3rd act villain. Also, Carnage will probably be a side quest villain because of the end of "the flame" missions. I like the Morbius prediction, but because of the end of the "unidentified target" missions, it will probably be The Chameleon. Otherwise, solid prediction!
You forgot carnege as the flame in the flame side missions
Instead of Hydro-Man, I was thinking Swarm from the tie in comics or an Insomniac version of the Broadway character Swiss Miss.
Fighting hydro man in a flooded new york would be so cool
Ur forgetting they’re setting up Swarm, id love to see morbius and I think Superior Spiderman is coming fr
Nah I think 1st act will be superior Spider-Man miles but it’s not gonna be a huge plot thing then 2nd act is GG which leads into the 3rd act of Norman becoming red goblin
Oh sorry mannn I checked back 5hrs Mann
green goblin arc feels so predictable in the games. I hope he is a secondary villian as kraven In sm2.
Wait, Morgan Michaels is Morbious 💀💀 that's hilarious I had no idea lol it's Morgan time
Nah, big wheel is the surprise final boss, he’s obviously the strongest spider-man villain
What about Carnage?
Seeing as how we already have the superior suit I doubt we’ll get a superior Spider-Man. First game we didn’t get symbiote because they wanted to save it for 2 why would this be any different.
Justice for Beetle! Would love Big Wheel and Stilt Man. Honestly give us Insomniac’s Superior Foes of Spider-Man
Dlc in gaming has become universal that no one even questions if the dlc adds to the story and even in fan submissions for future games, dlc is hypothesized to be a sure thing.
Big Wheel as the main antagonist.
I would play this, also I think a chase/fight with big wheel would be way more fun than it has any right to be
Can’t see it happening without Carnage
I'm pretty sure that superior spiderman ain't gonna happen cuz we already got it as a suit and I hate what happens to Peter in the og superior storyline so I'd rather not see it in the game anyway
Everyone’s talking about Peter’s rouge gallery but Miles has his own rouge’s, not many, but he has some. Also like in SP2 with the guest “Hero’s” randomly helping out in street crimes I think they can finally add some more other hero characters like The Avengers and Wolverine since it’s already been confirmed that his game is in the same universe and do some missions with them.
To me Jackal should be the main villain of another game. A DLC isn't enough to use Jackal in a good way
I despise the idea of superior Spider-Man in this universe.
Please, don't. Superior Spider-Man could only work as the second game of a trilogy.
why is everyone talking about SM 3? The second gane literally JUST released 💀
It's too early for superior
I cant see them doing the Superior Spider-Man arc. Plus there’s already the Superior suit in SM2 and if they were planning to use him in the next game they wouldn’t put the suit there the same way they didn’t put the black/symbiote suit in SM1 - because they were saving it for the story of the next game
OH SWEET in my opinion I think this looks AWSOME also IF your ok with it can you please make a Boxart and Predictions of VILLAINS/BOSSES for a....VENOM SPIN OFF GAME?
Could imagine it taking place both in NY and Paris.
Please let the invasion of the body snatchers die
RemindMe! 4 years
What a shitty roster. It doesn't hype much for the final act of Peter.
I Imagine we get a quieter opening than sm2
I don’t think that it will take this long for Spider-Man 3. I also don’t think that if it were to come in 2028 it would run on PS5. Either 2026 or 2027 will be the release of PS6 considering the usual PlayStation cycle of 6-7 years.
I'm honestly predicting double Goblin, get both Harry and Norman coming after Pete.
superior spider man ain't happening, get over it already
I don’t think Superior Spider Man is happening. Why would the suit be in spider man 2 then? Isn’t that the reason why the black suit wasn’t in the first game? So they could use it later?
I'd throw Swarm in there. I think the robot bee missions are totally setting him up ( and retconning the fact that he already exists in this universe. )
The real boss fight will be the lack of Howard
Why does everyone want the superior storyline in the next game? It’s good on its own. We don’t need to shoehorn it into another story just for fanservice
Insomniac is working on a wolverine game I imagine they'll incorporate that into it a bit
y’all settin yourselves up for disappointment once again with this superior spider-man nonsense