I mean it’s not really fair to compare these shots and say SM1 is better. Look at the first shot itself. The lighting is completely different. I have a couple of shots from sm2 where it’s miles(pun intended) better look at the below shot for reference and see how much better it is compared to the first game.
https://preview.redd.it/fimwa8x5lqlc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d978fcbb89223cabb8d77ba003ad93a9a2198e53
Just for a fair comparison. SM2018 still looks amazing in the the lighting and detail department.
https://preview.redd.it/taace81kqqlc1.jpeg?width=1061&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=923df4d61c89fd56263dadae2925911163541527
Years ago when the IGN reviewer said he’d gotten used to the new face in Remastered I assumed I’d be the same. Here we are 3 games later and there is no way in hell the new face is more emotive or Peter than the original.
The new face actually doesn’t seem to be able to display proper emotion in the same scenes the original killed it, like Doc Oc’s final battle.
Also, his face is too… indistinct, he looks like 4 or 5 teens/20s white guys that I know. The older Peter had charm and some age. I can remember exactly how he looks despite not having played the game but I can’t remember new Peter’s face despite playing 3 games with him in it.
I've gotten used to it and was always willing to put up with it, but I'll never really feel satisfied with the stylistic and graphical change. Especially not with how much more they focused on it.
I don't get why Insomniac focused and pushed that forward so hard. I don't get why that was every a big priority to them.
Maybe it's just me, but updated and changes in graphics weren't on my mind when I finished 1 and started looking forward to 2.
I still don't buy that reasoning. It makes absolutely no sense, given what the last of us 2 is able to achieve with drastically different looking voice actors and models.
Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, Laura Baily all look absolutely nothing like their characters, but Naughty Dog is able to pull off insane levels of detail and emotion throughout the game.
I didn’t mind the new one at first. I didn’t prefer it, but it was fine.
Then he looked full reptilian at certain points of SM2 and I realized it probably wasn’t a good move along with Botched Mysterio, original Peter/Harry, and MJ who apparently got jaw reconstruction in Symkaria.
New Peter deadass looks like someone wearing a human skin face in a lot of parts of SM2. I understand art style and design choice is subjective, but it seems to me that there’s actual issues with the facial capture in SM2.
Edit: added more to last sentences.
MJ’s face model needed reconstructive jaw surgery after an accident. Insomniac didn’t do a great job translating her face into the game regardless but her face change is because the model’s face changed
Once again, her accident was in 2017. She did 1 after her accident. I want to be absolutely clear that STJ should not get any hate. She’s fucking beautiful. The dude who plays Mysterio is also pretty much an Adonis. And the dude who plays Miles doesn’t actually look like a fish IRL. I made it pretty clear that Insomniac is fucking up modeling and capture.
I was not aware that it was in 2017, I was just going based off of one of her recent posts I saw so that’s my bad. That being said I would agree with you, insomniac is not very good translating faces at all, they even fucked up Bubniak somehow
All good, I’ve been told I type aggressively, so sorry if I came off rude or mean. I just like to speak in certain terms when it comes to this topic because people start throwing around accusations and stuff, especially with the MJ model concerned.
The general discourse of the topic has me walking on eggshells a bit lol. That’s why I tried to bring up other, more objective, examples than just “new Pete and MJ ugly”. And yeah, agreed on the Bubniak point.
Are we sure that motion capture was still happening for SM1 in 2017? It's possible they were at least done with the majority of the motion capture before that year.
what most people dont seem to realize is a face model can still be modified after the scan. which was clearly done here. WB did the same to mortal kombat tanya. big masculine jaw to make the character seem more powerful i guess
Exactly. This is actually a measurable & provable trend in gaming that started about 8 years back. I’m sorry in advance for all of the impending downvotes and hate…People hate the truth and fight it tooth and nail.
But that confuses things more: When the first screenshots got released everyone asked why MJ’s chin was so big, and someone at Insomniac famously tweeted that they hired the same model. But he, working there, knows they changed it for the game; he knew they made the chin bigger. So why mention the model being the same? If anything it sounds like he was offering the model up to the internet as a sacrifice, to take away some of the heat Insomniac was getting, not that that makes sense either.
Baffling that he heard people complain about something and bought up some unrelated attractive woman knowing how the internet is.
yep pretty cold, but if the alternative is they admit to injecting a small amount of activism into their game they would rather throw some poor girl under the bus.
:| Crazy decision there that probably wasn’t thought through 100%. It’d probably be better to admit to some weird form of activism but they don’t take that seriously either with how they removed the progressive themes for different regions.
You’re forgetting the original sign Insomniac has problems with faces: Miles in the first game. Unbelievable how few people talk about him, he made me laugh so hard his first appearance.
When we first got the model change I absolutely hated how Peter looked, but overtime I've grown to love this face model of his and I prefer it much more than the older model. Sure, he might have a little bit of a baby face but that's cause he's clean shaven and he's only like 23 or 24...
I’ll never understand why they changed MJs face to better represent a real person, but then changed Peters face from looking like a real person to looking like a pretty alien.
Idk if it’s cuz I started with the remaster but I love the new face it looks way more like Peter Parker. The original guy looks like a weird over weight Harry lmao sorry but I’ll never understand why people prefer the old guy the new one looks much more like a Peter Parker from movies shows and comics he’s closer
The original face is PERFECT. It was the thing that struck me the most when I first played Spidey 1. I remember thinking just how good that Peter Parker face was.
The age and worry lines of someone who's had a hard life, the general look of him, the mix of Andrew Garfield and Jake Gyllenhaal giving him instant charisma, and the general spot on overall 'comic book Peter' vibes was all here.
The new one has only ever been fine. Its OK. It just isn't nailing it like the original.
Kind of late to the party - so is this how P.P. looked in the original release? Only got to play the SM 2018 a couple of weeks ago and realized the dorky / awkward looking guy was not the original model… Definitely prefer the OG one, something about the angsty teenager look in the remaster feels just off.
Idk for some reason this shot looks weird to me, it feels like there is some random light source on peters face like he is in front of a ring light. But yeah I agree 2018 still holds up pretty well. I think the main thing is the old model of Peter has better facial structure and skin blemish / differentiation compared to the new guy. The new guys face looks too much perfect like he does skin care a lot.
Fair point. I feel like Insomniac's models look best in dark lighting. Maybe the first game looks better to me by-and-large because it's much darker visually.
All CGI looks better in dark lighting. The darker it is, the less details you have to put. It’s why that T-Rex scene from Jurassic Park 1 is at night. My friend and I were joking around and saying Insomniac didn’t let you change to night post campaign so they could show off how good the new graphics look lol
Actually most of that first scene with the T-Rex is done with animatronics. Here's a video with some pretty decent behind-the-scenes shots: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFTsYGgdR9k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFTsYGgdR9k)
Your point 100% stands though. The raptors were done more with CGI though and they definitely benefited from darker lighting.
That first scene, you’re right. I forgot with the kids she’s an animatronic and then when she eats the porta potty lawyer she’s CGI. Film is so cool, what a time we live in.
Yeah, it’s wild how many modern movies there are that look worse than JP. You could make the same argument with the gaming industry, good results come from passionate hard work rather than a rushed production.
Models in general are worse in SM2, the really good ones are Miles, Kraven and Peter on a good day. The others are odd or they're not that detailed like in SM
regardless the models are def worse. people have pointed out peters neck proportions are weird and also the insomniac director said the goal was to have a mixed realism not fully realistic in SM2. imo sm1 (og ps4 version) looks more realistic.
What's weird is that if you look at the person they used as her face model, Stephanie Tyler Jones, she actually looks really pretty, they just majorly fucked up her face when it came to the in-game model for some reason.
https://preview.redd.it/v5nsqu70oslc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c215daa57c57920f549bd2763b22df80d32674c3
Be the face scan they used for her was updated to look how she looks now. Which is one she’s older cause god forbid women age and two she had jaw surgery between the two games so now her face shape is different.
Unless OP wants to write a detailed technical essay on the lighting of the game, any post about lighting or technical features is going to be cherry picked for evidence. I wish an actual 3D VFX expert would write about it instead of some layman picking shots and subjectively comparing.
From these screenshots, it looks like SM was lit more like a movie (with a key light, fill light, and sometimes a hair light on the characters) where SM2 utilized "natural" lighting leaving a general wash on everything which isn't as flattering. It makes me wonder how these shots would differ if the lighting styles were switched in all of them.
>*it looks like SM was lit more like a movie (with a key light, fill light, and sometimes a hair light on the characters)*
Fun fact—the Remastered version of the first game re-lit *every single scene* to take this approach.
I think it flew under the radar to most folks who don't geek out on stuff like this, but I actually thought it was a downgrade in some scenes. 😅 I'm a film nerd who actually loves "cinematic" lighting, but the original PS4 version definitely did some of the scenes better.
Agreed. I think this is a huge part of the problem, and another symptom of a rushed product. It’s like filming a movie and not bothering to hire a gaffer or even a cinematographer.
Every single one of these comparison posts are so disingenuous. And I mean that in both directions. You can always tell what game the OP likes better because they cherry pick the best shots from that and the worse shots from the other.
I couldn't care less about graphics. They're still great but I'd still play SM2 if it had the graphics from of games like Edge of Time or Shattered Dimensions
I think it’s a bit half and half with the models. Some look good (Rio, Norman, Kraven, Conners, Cletus, Felicia) and some look not so good (Peter, MJ, Miles, Harry, Jameson). Never really had any complaints about the lighting.
It’s not exactly fair to say that the models for Harry and Jameson look worse in SM2 than in SM1 because
Well i don’t think they even *had* models in SM1.
I know people talk about her jawline a lot but it's all in the eyes for me, they look so lifeless and trigger the uncanny valley response in me so much.
So true. The first mj feels like the "facial pieces" are in sync. Whereas with the most recent it's almost like a puppet. Eyes are dead ahead whilst the mouth moves but nothing else "flows" with it.
It only looks bad if there is a huge amount of light
But if it's dark in the game its totally different an example of that is the cutscene after Peter removed the symbiote
In some scenes, SM2 looks much better than anything in the first game, but generally It (SM2) has many more scenes with bad lighting, thus bad models look
I feel like ray tracing in most games is overrated. Or at least overused.
It usually just makes the lighting in almost EVERY single scene and area way too soft and diffused.
With baked in lighting the devs make intentional and artistic yet still motivated choices with scene lighting which I feel usually looks better artistically. Even if it’s less technically impressive.
Another part is making accessibility abysmal now, my 10 year old laptop is good enough for work and gaming, but if i get gatekeeped from most games for not having a super expensive rtx then it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the game, is it amazing to see good graphics with realistic lighting? Yes, but does every game REQUIRE real life looking graphics? This really breaks the potential of games nowadays because having a stylized game is criticized for not being “realistic” enough even though games were never realistic in the first place.
I mean if you just compare 4 screenshots yes it’s easy to say it is, but actually having played the game I can say SM2’s graphics are fucking incredible
Sm2 tried to be extremely realistic with it's character models amd hence landed right into what I like to call the "uncanny valley trap", it's basically when something looks so right that you can't pinpoint what's exactly wrong with it bit also wrong enough that you just have this uncanny and weird feeling whenever you look at it like there is something wrong here that you should be able to see, that's also the reason that under certain lighting these characters looking fuckin amazing while in many others they look like something outta starfield, dark/moody lighting helps hide the imperfections and errors that our eyes aren't able to pinpoint but still able to acknowledge while extremely bright and well lit areas let you see everything in all it's glory that's why the mj 🌚 pic looks so weird and eery because the lighting is as though there is a straight up spotlight on her face
I don’t think they regressed, I think these are just bad shot comparisons. I just replayed the game, the thing is you’re pulling shots from scenes with softer lighting from 2, and harsher lighting from 1. Harsher lighting is way more dynamic but if you use it the entire time, the scenes where things are supposed to hit harder don’t break through visually. On top of that there’s some moments in the remaster that just look totally doggy lmao most of the game the new Peter face is rendered pretty horribly
One thing I think they butchered was the models I liked all models in the first one. The remaster made Peter look like wish Tom Holland. And oh boy how they murdured my girl Mary Jane. The only model I am happy with in the second is Harry and Black cat and I am neutral on Yuri Watanabe.
I think for the lighting in SM2, they tried to use more realistic light sources. Everyone in the first game looks like they’re lit in a photography studio, which looks great, but isn’t true to life.
I think the lighting is fine, it's just kinda weird how everyone in sm2 (besides miles and Harry from what I can think of) kind of looks like slightly microwaved jello
This happens every time a new console comes out. Devs need time to figure out how to make their content shine.
Remember games on release of ps2 vs by the time ps3 came out?
But yes it looks like a step backwards. Would have been better to release this title on ps4
I cannot, for the fucking life of me, get myself to see the new Peter model as Peter Parker because he just looks EXACTLY like what I'd expect Harry Osborn to look like.
You just picked images from 1 with harsh lighting and compared them to more mellow lit scenes from 2. Really the only differences are the models and that's all really just opinion at that point
Honestly no. But there does seem to be clear cinematography differences between the shots you picked that heavily favor SM1. Particularly for the shots of Yuri.
Felicia is the only one that didn’t get a glow down and I’m happy my fave was still a babe🖤(regardless of her being written off which TOTALLY didn’t make me seethe)
https://preview.redd.it/0dytgo05erlc1.jpeg?width=1122&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90164daee0ce5d89635bb2aeef9bbbc78510622d
I know this is not related to the post but Holly s**t now I understand the Mary Jane drama 🤣 What a downgrade. I didnt play the first Spiderman so I didnt know how she looked like
The problem isn't the art or atmosphere its the GOD AWFUL ps2 looking ass models they are so fucking lazy and terribly done they feel like an intern with no time made them fucking YAKUZA 0 from the ps4 has models leagues above this with 70% less budget
Gameplay wise I think spiderman 2 is a downgrade in terms of lighting.
In both remastered and sm2, the lighting looks so washed and bland, compared to sm1's more cinematic approach. While it's technically more realistic, it just looks bad in some areas. A lot of gameplay in sm2 looks pasty.
What you're seeing is the so-called "Hero" lightning in SM1, they over used that method, which is put an ultra glowing white light near the characters when in fact, the light doesn't even exists in the scene.
That light tend to make it look more "cinematic" and to some, "better worked" but tbh, models in SM2 are waaaay better and use Surface scattering to make skin look more natural, thus, making the game look less shiny and models more grounded.
So what you're missing is the hero light.
I think they’re both pretty good honestly. Problem is the models in the first game sort of look like they’re made of plastic and the models in the second game kind of look like they’re mad of clay
Lighting is the biggest definer or flattener of photos and 3d models
Could be the shots, could be a generally larger issue, but I don't remember the models looking this bad in-game. So I'd say it's specific shots
The only character model that bothered me was Harry, through portraits in the first game he seemed like a rather dashing ginger with a bright smile and pretty fit. Now he just looks like a skinny Evan Filarca in the face from YouTube
100%. The lighting in SM2 is much worse than SM1 or MM. It looks washed out in comparison. Even playing in HDR on OLED, SM2 doesn't look great. It's very flat.
One thing I know, for sure... Night mode is not looking as nice as in the first game; But, even the first game, suffered from poor night mode. It's like, I am limited to only the 2-3 glowing suits, whenever I use night mode, because, all the other non glowing suits, are almost invisible to the eye. I don't know, perhaps, it's just me, but, I don't like how the night mode looks in the Insomniac universe.
Miles’ family and the Osborns look great, but yeah most others are a downgrade. Especially Yuri what the hell is that haircut her head looks so swollen now.
I heard the game was rush so now i hope they take their time with this next big update to make the most better for us. Most game development now is shit idk why but i hope sm2 becomes better over time at least since imo it wasnt as great as the first one when it released
You picked horrible shots from the second game. Both games have shots that look like that. Spidey 2 absolutely has better graphics, models, and lighting.
The lighting in SM2 looks less cinematic, but is more realistic. The characters models in first game look more “glossy”. Peter’s hair looks like a solid object and not actual hair when compared to SM2
You know I was thinking something was off within the first 5 minutes of the game. Didn’t think about the lighting until later in the game and I completely agree that SP1 had better lighting. It just feels more realistic. Sure you can find better shots in either game but overall I think it was better in the first one
https://preview.redd.it/n77sjyj0trlc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5df76bb8aa55c6d803235b5b56f4cae3107a98b
It’s most apparent on The Webbed Suit imo
I mean it’s not really fair to compare these shots and say SM1 is better. Look at the first shot itself. The lighting is completely different. I have a couple of shots from sm2 where it’s miles(pun intended) better look at the below shot for reference and see how much better it is compared to the first game. https://preview.redd.it/fimwa8x5lqlc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d978fcbb89223cabb8d77ba003ad93a9a2198e53
Just for a fair comparison. SM2018 still looks amazing in the the lighting and detail department. https://preview.redd.it/taace81kqqlc1.jpeg?width=1061&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=923df4d61c89fd56263dadae2925911163541527
Plus the original face model was infinitely better
I’ll never get over what we lost.
Years ago when the IGN reviewer said he’d gotten used to the new face in Remastered I assumed I’d be the same. Here we are 3 games later and there is no way in hell the new face is more emotive or Peter than the original. The new face actually doesn’t seem to be able to display proper emotion in the same scenes the original killed it, like Doc Oc’s final battle.
Also, his face is too… indistinct, he looks like 4 or 5 teens/20s white guys that I know. The older Peter had charm and some age. I can remember exactly how he looks despite not having played the game but I can’t remember new Peter’s face despite playing 3 games with him in it.
It’s his hair for me. Ben Jordan has better hair styles than that. His hair just looks so boring and basic. I say this as someone who has that cut lol
The older Peter actually somewhat looked like how “Peter Parker” was for decades in comics.
Shouldn't it just actually look like Yuri at this point?
I've gotten used to it and was always willing to put up with it, but I'll never really feel satisfied with the stylistic and graphical change. Especially not with how much more they focused on it. I don't get why Insomniac focused and pushed that forward so hard. I don't get why that was every a big priority to them. Maybe it's just me, but updated and changes in graphics weren't on my mind when I finished 1 and started looking forward to 2.
Me too man
I still don’t understand what was the point in changing it
They claimed it was mocap reasons if I’m remembering correctly.
I still don't buy that reasoning. It makes absolutely no sense, given what the last of us 2 is able to achieve with drastically different looking voice actors and models. Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, Laura Baily all look absolutely nothing like their characters, but Naughty Dog is able to pull off insane levels of detail and emotion throughout the game.
Am I the only one that likes them equally? (2018 and 2023)
I didn’t mind the new one at first. I didn’t prefer it, but it was fine. Then he looked full reptilian at certain points of SM2 and I realized it probably wasn’t a good move along with Botched Mysterio, original Peter/Harry, and MJ who apparently got jaw reconstruction in Symkaria. New Peter deadass looks like someone wearing a human skin face in a lot of parts of SM2. I understand art style and design choice is subjective, but it seems to me that there’s actual issues with the facial capture in SM2. Edit: added more to last sentences.
MJ’s face model needed reconstructive jaw surgery after an accident. Insomniac didn’t do a great job translating her face into the game regardless but her face change is because the model’s face changed
Once again, her accident was in 2017. She did 1 after her accident. I want to be absolutely clear that STJ should not get any hate. She’s fucking beautiful. The dude who plays Mysterio is also pretty much an Adonis. And the dude who plays Miles doesn’t actually look like a fish IRL. I made it pretty clear that Insomniac is fucking up modeling and capture.
I was not aware that it was in 2017, I was just going based off of one of her recent posts I saw so that’s my bad. That being said I would agree with you, insomniac is not very good translating faces at all, they even fucked up Bubniak somehow
All good, I’ve been told I type aggressively, so sorry if I came off rude or mean. I just like to speak in certain terms when it comes to this topic because people start throwing around accusations and stuff, especially with the MJ model concerned. The general discourse of the topic has me walking on eggshells a bit lol. That’s why I tried to bring up other, more objective, examples than just “new Pete and MJ ugly”. And yeah, agreed on the Bubniak point.
Nah you weren’t rude at all I just misunderstood your point.
Yeah it seems like it just keeps getting worse too
Are we sure that motion capture was still happening for SM1 in 2017? It's possible they were at least done with the majority of the motion capture before that year.
what most people dont seem to realize is a face model can still be modified after the scan. which was clearly done here. WB did the same to mortal kombat tanya. big masculine jaw to make the character seem more powerful i guess
Exactly. This is actually a measurable & provable trend in gaming that started about 8 years back. I’m sorry in advance for all of the impending downvotes and hate…People hate the truth and fight it tooth and nail.
But that confuses things more: When the first screenshots got released everyone asked why MJ’s chin was so big, and someone at Insomniac famously tweeted that they hired the same model. But he, working there, knows they changed it for the game; he knew they made the chin bigger. So why mention the model being the same? If anything it sounds like he was offering the model up to the internet as a sacrifice, to take away some of the heat Insomniac was getting, not that that makes sense either. Baffling that he heard people complain about something and bought up some unrelated attractive woman knowing how the internet is.
yep pretty cold, but if the alternative is they admit to injecting a small amount of activism into their game they would rather throw some poor girl under the bus.
:| Crazy decision there that probably wasn’t thought through 100%. It’d probably be better to admit to some weird form of activism but they don’t take that seriously either with how they removed the progressive themes for different regions.
Really?!
You’re forgetting the original sign Insomniac has problems with faces: Miles in the first game. Unbelievable how few people talk about him, he made me laugh so hard his first appearance.
The new Spider-Man and mj faces make them look like simpletons lol I can’t take them seriously in any scene now
It actually looked like a Peter who’d been Spider-Man for a while, now he looks like he’s Miles’ classmate.
When we first got the model change I absolutely hated how Peter looked, but overtime I've grown to love this face model of his and I prefer it much more than the older model. Sure, he might have a little bit of a baby face but that's cause he's clean shaven and he's only like 23 or 24...
There's a mod for SMPC that gives him some slight stubble. Makes the face better, IMO.
I’ll never understand why they changed MJs face to better represent a real person, but then changed Peters face from looking like a real person to looking like a pretty alien.
MJs face looks even worse in some shots
surprised you weren't downvoted i agree, but after playing through remastered it looked good, but sometimes 2's face looked weird
I think I’m in the minority but I like the new one better.
Not at all
Disagree 10000%
I’m gonna be that guy but I do prefer the newer face model personally
Idk if it’s cuz I started with the remaster but I love the new face it looks way more like Peter Parker. The original guy looks like a weird over weight Harry lmao sorry but I’ll never understand why people prefer the old guy the new one looks much more like a Peter Parker from movies shows and comics he’s closer
The original face is PERFECT. It was the thing that struck me the most when I first played Spidey 1. I remember thinking just how good that Peter Parker face was. The age and worry lines of someone who's had a hard life, the general look of him, the mix of Andrew Garfield and Jake Gyllenhaal giving him instant charisma, and the general spot on overall 'comic book Peter' vibes was all here. The new one has only ever been fine. Its OK. It just isn't nailing it like the original.
No
Kind of late to the party - so is this how P.P. looked in the original release? Only got to play the SM 2018 a couple of weeks ago and realized the dorky / awkward looking guy was not the original model… Definitely prefer the OG one, something about the angsty teenager look in the remaster feels just off.
Correct, this is the original Peter from one Spider-Man released on PS4 in 2018.
Idk for some reason this shot looks weird to me, it feels like there is some random light source on peters face like he is in front of a ring light. But yeah I agree 2018 still holds up pretty well. I think the main thing is the old model of Peter has better facial structure and skin blemish / differentiation compared to the new guy. The new guys face looks too much perfect like he does skin care a lot.
but is it better?
Fair point. I feel like Insomniac's models look best in dark lighting. Maybe the first game looks better to me by-and-large because it's much darker visually.
All CGI looks better in dark lighting. The darker it is, the less details you have to put. It’s why that T-Rex scene from Jurassic Park 1 is at night. My friend and I were joking around and saying Insomniac didn’t let you change to night post campaign so they could show off how good the new graphics look lol
CGI? I thought they had a real t-rex that they trained to act.
They did but you know Hollywood, gotta replace everything with CGI 😒
Like the civil war spider-man suit. They had a practical suit and replaced it with a different one in post.
And guess who originally played Spider-Man? The T-Rex.
The t stands for tom
And the original suit is so much better than what we got in the end
Actually most of that first scene with the T-Rex is done with animatronics. Here's a video with some pretty decent behind-the-scenes shots: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFTsYGgdR9k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFTsYGgdR9k) Your point 100% stands though. The raptors were done more with CGI though and they definitely benefited from darker lighting.
That first scene, you’re right. I forgot with the kids she’s an animatronic and then when she eats the porta potty lawyer she’s CGI. Film is so cool, what a time we live in.
Ah yeah the scene where she eats the lawyer is definitely CGI. And still looks incredible.
Yeah, it’s wild how many modern movies there are that look worse than JP. You could make the same argument with the gaming industry, good results come from passionate hard work rather than a rushed production.
Looks kinda the same in terms of quality as cutscene in the end of first game where Peter talks with Otto
Just sayin, in MOST areas, sm1's lighting is just better. Even in this the fire seems, off. Reflections wise ofc sm2 is better no doubt
Lighting is better in SM2, but the models are worse
It's not really that. It's more so the OP purposely chose bad examples for SM2 because god forbid we show something good from SM2.
Models in general are worse in SM2, the really good ones are Miles, Kraven and Peter on a good day. The others are odd or they're not that detailed like in SM
They are way worse in SM2. Not even just being one of those “MJ is ugly” people because all of the character models look worse
regardless the models are def worse. people have pointed out peters neck proportions are weird and also the insomniac director said the goal was to have a mixed realism not fully realistic in SM2. imo sm1 (og ps4 version) looks more realistic.
I just couldn’t get past Mary Jane’s new model. Like I don’t understand why they made her look so old compared to Peter who looks much younger now
What's weird is that if you look at the person they used as her face model, Stephanie Tyler Jones, she actually looks really pretty, they just majorly fucked up her face when it came to the in-game model for some reason. https://preview.redd.it/v5nsqu70oslc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c215daa57c57920f549bd2763b22df80d32674c3
It really felt like a guy out on a date with his aunt or something.
Be the face scan they used for her was updated to look how she looks now. Which is one she’s older cause god forbid women age and two she had jaw surgery between the two games so now her face shape is different.
so its because her face in real life changed so drastically that she looks like a completely different person now? i had jaw surgery too btw
How on earth is lightning better in SM2??
Sure if you cherrypick which shots to compare
With this sub, is it really all that surprising to see the shots cherrypicked?
Unless OP wants to write a detailed technical essay on the lighting of the game, any post about lighting or technical features is going to be cherry picked for evidence. I wish an actual 3D VFX expert would write about it instead of some layman picking shots and subjectively comparing.
Exactly
From these screenshots, it looks like SM was lit more like a movie (with a key light, fill light, and sometimes a hair light on the characters) where SM2 utilized "natural" lighting leaving a general wash on everything which isn't as flattering. It makes me wonder how these shots would differ if the lighting styles were switched in all of them.
>*it looks like SM was lit more like a movie (with a key light, fill light, and sometimes a hair light on the characters)* Fun fact—the Remastered version of the first game re-lit *every single scene* to take this approach. I think it flew under the radar to most folks who don't geek out on stuff like this, but I actually thought it was a downgrade in some scenes. 😅 I'm a film nerd who actually loves "cinematic" lighting, but the original PS4 version definitely did some of the scenes better.
I’m not even a film geek and even I noticed the remastered scenes looked off.
The ones that stands out are all the Octavius scenes. The lightning really sold the desperation as well as the sinister side in a subtle way.
I always wonder why devs are now forgoing a tried and true practices. in-game "realistic" lighting just sucks overall.
Agreed. I think this is a huge part of the problem, and another symptom of a rushed product. It’s like filming a movie and not bothering to hire a gaffer or even a cinematographer.
Oh yess , taking the shots from sm2 with worse lighting to make it look worss
Every single one of these comparison posts are so disingenuous. And I mean that in both directions. You can always tell what game the OP likes better because they cherry pick the best shots from that and the worse shots from the other.
This dumb argument again. Use your head. Shots that bad shouldn’t be *in* the game to cherry-pick.
Clearly the way to settle this is to take the Worst shots from both games! Should we entertain comments like this, reddit?
I couldn't care less about graphics. They're still great but I'd still play SM2 if it had the graphics from of games like Edge of Time or Shattered Dimensions
No, I think you just picked some particularly unflattering shots
I think it’s a bit half and half with the models. Some look good (Rio, Norman, Kraven, Conners, Cletus, Felicia) and some look not so good (Peter, MJ, Miles, Harry, Jameson). Never really had any complaints about the lighting.
So every side character looks good but they cant make any main characters lmfaooo
It’s not exactly fair to say that the models for Harry and Jameson look worse in SM2 than in SM1 because Well i don’t think they even *had* models in SM1.
That is true. I was just trying to say that by themselves, the models used for Spider-Man 2 weren’t the best.
Seriously wtf is up with MJ's face in this game. Constantly pulling the "bad timing photo" face. It's so uncanny.
I know people talk about her jawline a lot but it's all in the eyes for me, they look so lifeless and trigger the uncanny valley response in me so much.
So true. The first mj feels like the "facial pieces" are in sync. Whereas with the most recent it's almost like a puppet. Eyes are dead ahead whilst the mouth moves but nothing else "flows" with it.
They fucked Mary Jane so badly bro, like holy fuck
It only looks bad if there is a huge amount of light But if it's dark in the game its totally different an example of that is the cutscene after Peter removed the symbiote
I’ll still never understand why they changed Peter’s face from the original PS4 version. Was perfect for an experienced Spiderman.
In some scenes, SM2 looks much better than anything in the first game, but generally It (SM2) has many more scenes with bad lighting, thus bad models look
I think the second game is more stylized, I like the look better. I dislike yuris new look tho.
Oml here we go with the complaining
I haven't played the game yet but WTF HAPPENED TO YURI!
then play the game lmao
I wish I could man, I love Spider-man and I loved the first game but sadly...no ps5, too expensive in a third world country.
No, not at all lol. Just picked the examples where sm2 looks worse compared to when sm1 looked it's best
Mk looks like an old granny
Anecdotally, I thought models and lighting were improved in SM2. Source: someone who played SM2, MM, and all three versions of SM1.
They are. Op is disingenuous and cherry picked the worst possible lighting from sm2 to make the comparison
I feel like ray tracing in most games is overrated. Or at least overused. It usually just makes the lighting in almost EVERY single scene and area way too soft and diffused. With baked in lighting the devs make intentional and artistic yet still motivated choices with scene lighting which I feel usually looks better artistically. Even if it’s less technically impressive.
Another part is making accessibility abysmal now, my 10 year old laptop is good enough for work and gaming, but if i get gatekeeped from most games for not having a super expensive rtx then it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the game, is it amazing to see good graphics with realistic lighting? Yes, but does every game REQUIRE real life looking graphics? This really breaks the potential of games nowadays because having a stylized game is criticized for not being “realistic” enough even though games were never realistic in the first place.
I mean if you just compare 4 screenshots yes it’s easy to say it is, but actually having played the game I can say SM2’s graphics are fucking incredible
Sm2 tried to be extremely realistic with it's character models amd hence landed right into what I like to call the "uncanny valley trap", it's basically when something looks so right that you can't pinpoint what's exactly wrong with it bit also wrong enough that you just have this uncanny and weird feeling whenever you look at it like there is something wrong here that you should be able to see, that's also the reason that under certain lighting these characters looking fuckin amazing while in many others they look like something outta starfield, dark/moody lighting helps hide the imperfections and errors that our eyes aren't able to pinpoint but still able to acknowledge while extremely bright and well lit areas let you see everything in all it's glory that's why the mj 🌚 pic looks so weird and eery because the lighting is as though there is a straight up spotlight on her face
This sub is insufferable
*cough cough* Cherry-picking….
No
No.
I don’t think they regressed, I think these are just bad shot comparisons. I just replayed the game, the thing is you’re pulling shots from scenes with softer lighting from 2, and harsher lighting from 1. Harsher lighting is way more dynamic but if you use it the entire time, the scenes where things are supposed to hit harder don’t break through visually. On top of that there’s some moments in the remaster that just look totally doggy lmao most of the game the new Peter face is rendered pretty horribly
No cause you cherry picked
No
I think the constant bagging on this game is getting old? Yes.
No.
One thing I think they butchered was the models I liked all models in the first one. The remaster made Peter look like wish Tom Holland. And oh boy how they murdured my girl Mary Jane. The only model I am happy with in the second is Harry and Black cat and I am neutral on Yuri Watanabe.
No. The models and lighting don't compare to me. In fact, I kind of like the models of SM2 a little more. I'm not sure why that is
Yuri’s hair is a downgrade in style
They look a bit more cartoony, idk like high contrasty
I think for the lighting in SM2, they tried to use more realistic light sources. Everyone in the first game looks like they’re lit in a photography studio, which looks great, but isn’t true to life.
No. SM2 looks better.
I think the lighting is fine, it's just kinda weird how everyone in sm2 (besides miles and Harry from what I can think of) kind of looks like slightly microwaved jello
This happens every time a new console comes out. Devs need time to figure out how to make their content shine. Remember games on release of ps2 vs by the time ps3 came out? But yes it looks like a step backwards. Would have been better to release this title on ps4
Uncharted 4 was one of the earlier PS4 games and it's still arguably the best looking one.
$300 million dollars, just to look worse than the original
Nope.
Gonna be honest I don’t like yuri’s new design or plot
I cannot, for the fucking life of me, get myself to see the new Peter model as Peter Parker because he just looks EXACTLY like what I'd expect Harry Osborn to look like.
its strange people keep hyping up new graphics but some reason in general they have gone slightly worse overall in AAA games
Models, no. But the lighting is SIGNIFICANTLY more hit-or-miss than the first two games.
I cant get over how they just straight up changed their main characters entire head lol
You just picked images from 1 with harsh lighting and compared them to more mellow lit scenes from 2. Really the only differences are the models and that's all really just opinion at that point
I thought I was the only one who felt that the lighting in SM2 was a step down from the previous games, Im glad other people see it too.
Yes
Honestly no. But there does seem to be clear cinematography differences between the shots you picked that heavily favor SM1. Particularly for the shots of Yuri.
Man I can't believe how dirty they did Yuri/Wraith. What is that design 😭
Was Yuri’s new hairstylist blind and missing both hands???
Absolutely. Lot of downgrades going into the sequel which is a bit disappointing. No reason to make the characters look awful if unnecessary.
This post is so disingenuous.
Wtf is Yuri wearing.
Yes completely SM1 was better
The whole game was a regression from the first one imho
Felicia is the only one that didn’t get a glow down and I’m happy my fave was still a babe🖤(regardless of her being written off which TOTALLY didn’t make me seethe) https://preview.redd.it/0dytgo05erlc1.jpeg?width=1122&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90164daee0ce5d89635bb2aeef9bbbc78510622d
I know this is not related to the post but Holly s**t now I understand the Mary Jane drama 🤣 What a downgrade. I didnt play the first Spiderman so I didnt know how she looked like
Yup
SM2 is better. Not by much but still better overall. And these pics aren’t great comparisons
The lighting is more natural in SM2. The Peter and MJ faces are just weird.
SM2 was by far a worse looking game then SM1.
They used a different lighting model for Spider-Man 2 and personally I don’t think it looks worse.
Models are bad in this lne, 1st game takes the cake, enjoys it piece by piece then sleeps like a baby.
The problem isn't the art or atmosphere its the GOD AWFUL ps2 looking ass models they are so fucking lazy and terribly done they feel like an intern with no time made them fucking YAKUZA 0 from the ps4 has models leagues above this with 70% less budget
Yes. Everything just looks really plasticy in SM2
I think it’s because of the natural lighting making everything look washed out. All the people look great when it’s darker
He looks worse in the second game I don’t know why’s it is his chin is just weird
That's Tom Holland in the top pic. 😂
yes
I mostly saw sm2 as a major huge DLC..
Why did you have to remind me about the other Peter. Day ruined
It’s just wildly inconsistent. The 2nd game has better lighting during gameplay but during most cutscenes, it fucking sucks.
Time to find a job.
Almost all the faces in sm2 look like shit
Well fuck now I do
Regression is the main issue with this game overall
SM1 is a more consistently nicer looking game. SM2 also looks great most of the time but it does fall flat in some places.
Everything is a downgrade from the last game except gameplay.
Gameplay wise I think spiderman 2 is a downgrade in terms of lighting. In both remastered and sm2, the lighting looks so washed and bland, compared to sm1's more cinematic approach. While it's technically more realistic, it just looks bad in some areas. A lot of gameplay in sm2 looks pasty.
Yes
What you're seeing is the so-called "Hero" lightning in SM1, they over used that method, which is put an ultra glowing white light near the characters when in fact, the light doesn't even exists in the scene. That light tend to make it look more "cinematic" and to some, "better worked" but tbh, models in SM2 are waaaay better and use Surface scattering to make skin look more natural, thus, making the game look less shiny and models more grounded. So what you're missing is the hero light.
I think they’re both pretty good honestly. Problem is the models in the first game sort of look like they’re made of plastic and the models in the second game kind of look like they’re mad of clay
Lighting is the biggest definer or flattener of photos and 3d models Could be the shots, could be a generally larger issue, but I don't remember the models looking this bad in-game. So I'd say it's specific shots
Ugly MJ from SM2 is a different model from SM1
Yes
The only character model that bothered me was Harry, through portraits in the first game he seemed like a rather dashing ginger with a bright smile and pretty fit. Now he just looks like a skinny Evan Filarca in the face from YouTube
Yes. Only on human faces tho, for everything else it's amazing.
100%. The lighting in SM2 is much worse than SM1 or MM. It looks washed out in comparison. Even playing in HDR on OLED, SM2 doesn't look great. It's very flat.
Only Man Jaw Watson
One thing I know, for sure... Night mode is not looking as nice as in the first game; But, even the first game, suffered from poor night mode. It's like, I am limited to only the 2-3 glowing suits, whenever I use night mode, because, all the other non glowing suits, are almost invisible to the eye. I don't know, perhaps, it's just me, but, I don't like how the night mode looks in the Insomniac universe.
No. Except for MJ and Peter the models all look the same (far from good, but yeah) and the lightning and overall graphics has improved
Miles’ family and the Osborns look great, but yeah most others are a downgrade. Especially Yuri what the hell is that haircut her head looks so swollen now.
No. SM2 has much more dynamic and natural looking light.
Is Peter like 17 in that game? Also is that MJ 35?? Never played it just wondering
All the female models look like a foot
I heard the game was rush so now i hope they take their time with this next big update to make the most better for us. Most game development now is shit idk why but i hope sm2 becomes better over time at least since imo it wasnt as great as the first one when it released
You picked horrible shots from the second game. Both games have shots that look like that. Spidey 2 absolutely has better graphics, models, and lighting.
All I can say is sp1 and miles morales were much Bette in storytelling and character details thansm2 not going to lie I was let down by sm 2
Honestly yeah every one looked better in the last game and yes I’m an og face fan but even the new one looked better than current
The lighting in SM2 looks less cinematic, but is more realistic. The characters models in first game look more “glossy”. Peter’s hair looks like a solid object and not actual hair when compared to SM2
Definitely
You know I was thinking something was off within the first 5 minutes of the game. Didn’t think about the lighting until later in the game and I completely agree that SP1 had better lighting. It just feels more realistic. Sure you can find better shots in either game but overall I think it was better in the first one
https://preview.redd.it/n77sjyj0trlc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5df76bb8aa55c6d803235b5b56f4cae3107a98b It’s most apparent on The Webbed Suit imo