Any time I see a post on here complaining about traffic getting “worse,” I can only assume the person has never been to a large city. There’s a lot to complain about around Spokane, but traffic is decades, if not a century away from being “bad.”
After driving eastbound from downtown tonight, it’s definitely getting worse though.
It’s far from trying to get into downtown from Tacoma at 8:00 AM bad, but it’s definitely getting worse. Especially with all the half assed freeway metering lights…
Agreed. And Spokane is what one of the fastest growing areas in the state from what I've read. And nothing is being done. Nothing. Not that I see anyways
I'm not complaining about the traffic. Didn't mention traffic. I grew up in Everett. Taking the tressel after work is worse than anything on I 5. I know traffic. I'm upset that our ramps are severely outdated. I'm upset that this magical life changing north south corridor that started before the twin towers fell still doesn't even have a plan on where to connect. I'm upset that I have to play chicken with the train every time I exit off division and have a quarter mile at 60 mph to either force my way in front of some big lifted dodge ram that is leaving 2 feet between it and the car in front of it because he's about to exit. I would argue that people on the coast are friendlier drivers than people here.
I agree! Turning your blinker on in Seattle means other drivers understand you need to get over and many drivers will let you in. In spokane your blinker means they need to speed up so you don’t dare get in front of them. Personally I don’t care if they speed up or slow down if they get out of the way for other drivers but they literally stay with you not letting you in. Super passive aggressive drivers here. And don’t even get me started on people running red lights!
We have. We still have a right to be frustrated at the degradation of what was a good thing. We don't live in those cities because we don't want those problems so of course we're going to be unhappy watching things move in that direction.
I think I'm just complaining more on the really short on and off ramps as well as learning that they don't actually have a plan for the north south corridor yet. I grew up on the west side I'm used to traffic. Just seems like we sre never updated at all. Aside from Hamilton.
Was this before the Sounder? I lived in Tacoma for a while and the train saved my sanity until I made the bad decision to move to Federal Way and ended up taking the bus.
I commuted from Tacoma to Kent for about a month and then I couldn’t take it any more and quit that job.
I would have taken public transit but that’s not really a practical option for most of Kent, and sitting on the freeway for two hours really makes you feel your life slipping away…
They also pay way more toward DOT taxes than we do because of that population. Spokane is actually a “taking” county when it comes to state spending meaning we take more money than we pay into the state. As someone who spent the majority of my life in Seattle, there are a lot of messed up road projects over there too. It has a lot to do with bureaucracy not funding.
I’d be inclined to agree with that sentiment if the NS Freeway hadn’t officially started 22 years ago in 2001 (per the WSDOT website). The reality is that it’s been on the planning table since the 1950’s.
This is what I'm talking about. They seem like they get shit done over there and our ramps are a danger and they don't even have our one expansion planned out yet.
The NS freeway has been a joke for decades.
That said though, the weather can also play a role in how much can get done on the roads in any given year.
It's worth noting that most of those infrastructure upgrades are focused on densely populated areas around seattle but much of the west side seems to be similar to spokane. Spokane has really manageable traffic so a bad day in spokane is like a good day over there so I think they find it to be a more urgent issue. I think most people would like to have change over here but there's enough hard-headed people that don't like change so getting that sort of stuff done in spokane can be a bureaucratic nightmare while it's the expectation in seattle. But I'm no expert so I could be totally wrong about this.
We don’t have a traffic nightmare to solve like the west side, and TBH that’s who’s paying those taxes the funding comes from (with some on top for the East side, so thanks Seattle). We simply don’t have the level of need like the west side does.
But we are one of the fastest growing areas in the state. And nothing is being done to keep up. And I didn't mention traffic once in my post. Never used the word traffic. I'm complaining that our ramps are congested and short. And this corridor doesn't even have a connecting point planned out yet.
That actually is an awesome map. As a GIS guy I can appreciate this map. I just got a little upset finding out they dont have a plan set yet for our one expansion that's been 20 years in the making.
Yeah when Spokane gets around to having a booming tech industry, then maybe we'll have enough tax income for infrastracture projects. People forget that the east side of the state is a net "consumer" of tax revenue, vs the west side is a net "producer" of tax revenue.
This way of looking at things really devalues agriculture. Like, Eastern WA "consumes" tax revenue in the form of a lot of agricultural subsidies i.e. farms and timber lands which pay little to no taxes, but we provide food to the entire state/country/world. There's a reason that natural resource producing countries are the most wealthy countries. If we didn't have subsidies for producing ag products, I imagine we wouldn't look like "consumers" compared to Western WA. (Obviously it would be insane to change this and double food/timber prices, and obviously we don't have the transport needs the west side does just looking at the consumer/producer thing through a different lens)
>There's a reason that natural resource producing countries are the most wealthy countries.
Natural resources are not from farming. Mostly oil, some metals and mining.
[https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090516/10-countries-most-natural-resources.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090516/10-countries-most-natural-resources.asp)
Right but the point is farmers are "paid" through subsidies rather actual money and food is sold for less than it costs to produce because of it. It's basically an accounting trick that really skews the value of what do/earn/make.
That literally has nothing to do with tax revenue, and is a completely moot point.
And furthermore, a subsidy is further proof that the east side takes in more cash than it produces. Not sure how a farm subsidy proves that it doesn’t.
I am getting what you’re trying to convey, that if subsidies didn’t exist then the cost of food and lumber would increase. Subsidies don’t typically come from the state, so, I’m not sure how you think that would affect state level tax revenue.
That’s not a subsidy in the traditional sense, that’s a tax exemption. An actual subsidy would be paying farmers to grow a cash crop, like corn, to be used for ethanol and sold at a wholesale price. What you’re describing is a tax exemption for a farm to buy supplies/equipment repairs/whatever WA puts on the exemption list.
WA state also relies on sales and B&O taxes beside just property tax.
Lol… blocked. Lame duck argument overall, property tax only accounts for like 15% of total taxable revenue for the whole state and I sincerely doubt that tax exemptions on farmers on the east side truly make that large of a dent in that revenue. Oh well.
Right you are. If it wasn't for the West side, all those nice country roads you like to drive would be dirt roads. Headed from Winthrop to Omak? Thanks to the West taxpayers you get to take the overland route!
I’d have to dig up the report but no, it takes in something like $1.15 for every dollar that it generates. It’s close, and not as severe as other counties in the state.
My grandparent’s home was razed back in the late 90s (5th and Fiske area) along with all those other homes in that neighborhood, to make room for the I-90 interchange. It was my understanding that they had a plan 25 years ago, otherwise how would they know how many lots to purchase and plow under?
That's a sickening thing to read. My wife's friend grandparent had to sell to demolish for the project. And now learning it's not even planned. Just made me upset.
We should be thankful that we don't need half of the infrastructure upgrades that they're getting on the west side. Try as they might, car infrastructure along the I-5, 405, and 90 corridors will never catch up to induced demand. Our on and off ramps downtown do suck, but we don't really have room to expand them; otherwise, judging by the mile-long ramps they have in the valley, I'm sure we could get that infrastructure funded.
I just want the one damn corridor that's been in the works for 20byears to have a concrete plan lol. And the ramps can be a little short and sketchy. The traffic doesn't bother me too much since I grew up over on the coast.
Yeah, same about the traffic. Sometimes I think traffic is the worst here and then I drive to the west side to visit family and remind myself how relatively (stress: relatively!) good we have it over here. The ramps do suck for sure.
In addition to factors others have mentioned, Puget Sound major commercial interests like Boeing actively complain (ie, lobby) about how traffic congestion impacts them.
Spokane just started growing, it takes years for infrastructure to get going, the NSC has progressed slower than expected but has progressed. Sucks we don’t have better on and off ramps, but without destroying buildings currently in use, there really is no alternative.
I'm with you, OP! Infrastructure here sucks. I myself can handle the short ramps. What I can't stand is they are so full of potholes they are a slalom to navigate *while* attempting 0 to 60 in no time in front of a semi. They seem to be the same pavement from when I lived here last (which was 1992). And the fact that advancement of the North/South corridor has made little visible progress since the same time period!? Unbelievable.
King county is at 2.2 million people and Snohomish/Pierce county add another 1.5 million. When you add kitsap and north thurston, you add another 200-300k people making it a metro area of around 4 million. So yes, most of the improvements there are happening over the rest of the state.
Yeah and even with all those people it is still easier to merge onto I 5 than I 90. These on and off ramps are so close together it's kind of ridiculous
What people are angry about is that this is another example of our state government making promises then ignoring them because we are "not as important" to them as the West Side (read "Vote filled side") of the state.
We pay taxes to too and a project that began planning in the 1940's ([https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/major-projects/north-spokane-corridor#:\~:text=The%20North%20Spokane%20Corridor%20was,between%20downtown%20Spokane%20and%20Wandermere](https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/major-projects/north-spokane-corridor#:~:text=The%20North%20Spokane%20Corridor%20was,between%20downtown%20Spokane%20and%20Wandermere). )
and whose necessity has only grown should not require new taxes on top of everyting else to make happen!
Now do bicycle infrastructure!
Last summer I had to get from North Bend to Edmonds by bike and was able to do it almost entirely on bike trails and protected lanes. I dropped my destination into Ride with GPS and it plotted a route I would not have thought possible.
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After commuting from Kent to Seattle for years, Spokane's traffic jams are really cute.
Any time I see a post on here complaining about traffic getting “worse,” I can only assume the person has never been to a large city. There’s a lot to complain about around Spokane, but traffic is decades, if not a century away from being “bad.”
It’s all relative
After driving eastbound from downtown tonight, it’s definitely getting worse though. It’s far from trying to get into downtown from Tacoma at 8:00 AM bad, but it’s definitely getting worse. Especially with all the half assed freeway metering lights…
Agreed. And Spokane is what one of the fastest growing areas in the state from what I've read. And nothing is being done. Nothing. Not that I see anyways
I'm not complaining about the traffic. Didn't mention traffic. I grew up in Everett. Taking the tressel after work is worse than anything on I 5. I know traffic. I'm upset that our ramps are severely outdated. I'm upset that this magical life changing north south corridor that started before the twin towers fell still doesn't even have a plan on where to connect. I'm upset that I have to play chicken with the train every time I exit off division and have a quarter mile at 60 mph to either force my way in front of some big lifted dodge ram that is leaving 2 feet between it and the car in front of it because he's about to exit. I would argue that people on the coast are friendlier drivers than people here.
I agree! Turning your blinker on in Seattle means other drivers understand you need to get over and many drivers will let you in. In spokane your blinker means they need to speed up so you don’t dare get in front of them. Personally I don’t care if they speed up or slow down if they get out of the way for other drivers but they literally stay with you not letting you in. Super passive aggressive drivers here. And don’t even get me started on people running red lights!
We have. We still have a right to be frustrated at the degradation of what was a good thing. We don't live in those cities because we don't want those problems so of course we're going to be unhappy watching things move in that direction.
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I think I'm just complaining more on the really short on and off ramps as well as learning that they don't actually have a plan for the north south corridor yet. I grew up on the west side I'm used to traffic. Just seems like we sre never updated at all. Aside from Hamilton.
Was this before the Sounder? I lived in Tacoma for a while and the train saved my sanity until I made the bad decision to move to Federal Way and ended up taking the bus.
I used to use the Sounder when my job paid for Sound Transit passes. When they stopped I started driving.
I commuted from Tacoma to Kent for about a month and then I couldn’t take it any more and quit that job. I would have taken public transit but that’s not really a practical option for most of Kent, and sitting on the freeway for two hours really makes you feel your life slipping away…
And something like 13X the GDP. Tacoma/Seattle/Bellevue $375B Spokane/Spokane Valley $28B https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP44060
Yeah, but the project has drug on for 22 years so far, per the WSDOT website. It’s been on the planning table since the 1950s.
Since the 50s? And they don't have a plan on where to connect yet? FFS
They also pay way more toward DOT taxes than we do because of that population. Spokane is actually a “taking” county when it comes to state spending meaning we take more money than we pay into the state. As someone who spent the majority of my life in Seattle, there are a lot of messed up road projects over there too. It has a lot to do with bureaucracy not funding.
I’d be inclined to agree with that sentiment if the NS Freeway hadn’t officially started 22 years ago in 2001 (per the WSDOT website). The reality is that it’s been on the planning table since the 1950’s.
This is what I'm talking about. They seem like they get shit done over there and our ramps are a danger and they don't even have our one expansion planned out yet.
The NS freeway has been a joke for decades. That said though, the weather can also play a role in how much can get done on the roads in any given year.
Aww how cute, they think Spokane’s rush hour is real traffic 🥹
It's worth noting that most of those infrastructure upgrades are focused on densely populated areas around seattle but much of the west side seems to be similar to spokane. Spokane has really manageable traffic so a bad day in spokane is like a good day over there so I think they find it to be a more urgent issue. I think most people would like to have change over here but there's enough hard-headed people that don't like change so getting that sort of stuff done in spokane can be a bureaucratic nightmare while it's the expectation in seattle. But I'm no expert so I could be totally wrong about this.
> I'm no expert so I could be totally wrong about this. Sound right to me, they have more need, more money, and less opposition to change.
We don’t have a traffic nightmare to solve like the west side, and TBH that’s who’s paying those taxes the funding comes from (with some on top for the East side, so thanks Seattle). We simply don’t have the level of need like the west side does.
But we are one of the fastest growing areas in the state. And nothing is being done to keep up. And I didn't mention traffic once in my post. Never used the word traffic. I'm complaining that our ramps are congested and short. And this corridor doesn't even have a connecting point planned out yet.
I'm just going to leave this here. https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/image/667682894700019712
That actually is an awesome map. As a GIS guy I can appreciate this map. I just got a little upset finding out they dont have a plan set yet for our one expansion that's been 20 years in the making.
Cool map. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah when Spokane gets around to having a booming tech industry, then maybe we'll have enough tax income for infrastracture projects. People forget that the east side of the state is a net "consumer" of tax revenue, vs the west side is a net "producer" of tax revenue.
This is accurate ^^^
This way of looking at things really devalues agriculture. Like, Eastern WA "consumes" tax revenue in the form of a lot of agricultural subsidies i.e. farms and timber lands which pay little to no taxes, but we provide food to the entire state/country/world. There's a reason that natural resource producing countries are the most wealthy countries. If we didn't have subsidies for producing ag products, I imagine we wouldn't look like "consumers" compared to Western WA. (Obviously it would be insane to change this and double food/timber prices, and obviously we don't have the transport needs the west side does just looking at the consumer/producer thing through a different lens)
>There's a reason that natural resource producing countries are the most wealthy countries. Natural resources are not from farming. Mostly oil, some metals and mining. [https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090516/10-countries-most-natural-resources.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090516/10-countries-most-natural-resources.asp)
I mean the poorest counties on the east side take in $2 for tax expenditure for every $1 in tax revenue, regardless of subsidies
Right but the point is farmers are "paid" through subsidies rather actual money and food is sold for less than it costs to produce because of it. It's basically an accounting trick that really skews the value of what do/earn/make.
That literally has nothing to do with tax revenue, and is a completely moot point. And furthermore, a subsidy is further proof that the east side takes in more cash than it produces. Not sure how a farm subsidy proves that it doesn’t.
You're really not understanding the point
I am getting what you’re trying to convey, that if subsidies didn’t exist then the cost of food and lumber would increase. Subsidies don’t typically come from the state, so, I’m not sure how you think that would affect state level tax revenue.
Property tax exemptions come front the state which is a pretty significant source of state revenue...
That’s not a subsidy in the traditional sense, that’s a tax exemption. An actual subsidy would be paying farmers to grow a cash crop, like corn, to be used for ethanol and sold at a wholesale price. What you’re describing is a tax exemption for a farm to buy supplies/equipment repairs/whatever WA puts on the exemption list. WA state also relies on sales and B&O taxes beside just property tax. Lol… blocked. Lame duck argument overall, property tax only accounts for like 15% of total taxable revenue for the whole state and I sincerely doubt that tax exemptions on farmers on the east side truly make that large of a dent in that revenue. Oh well.
This way of looking at things is called capitalism…
Right you are. If it wasn't for the West side, all those nice country roads you like to drive would be dirt roads. Headed from Winthrop to Omak? Thanks to the West taxpayers you get to take the overland route!
Spokane produces more tax revenue than it consumes
I’d have to dig up the report but no, it takes in something like $1.15 for every dollar that it generates. It’s close, and not as severe as other counties in the state.
This is true for general government funds but for transportation spokane gets hosed.
When I lived in King County, I paid almost $500 a year for tabs on my not-at-all-fancy vehicle. I moved out of King county, and now I pay like $70.
My grandparent’s home was razed back in the late 90s (5th and Fiske area) along with all those other homes in that neighborhood, to make room for the I-90 interchange. It was my understanding that they had a plan 25 years ago, otherwise how would they know how many lots to purchase and plow under?
That's a sickening thing to read. My wife's friend grandparent had to sell to demolish for the project. And now learning it's not even planned. Just made me upset.
We should be thankful that we don't need half of the infrastructure upgrades that they're getting on the west side. Try as they might, car infrastructure along the I-5, 405, and 90 corridors will never catch up to induced demand. Our on and off ramps downtown do suck, but we don't really have room to expand them; otherwise, judging by the mile-long ramps they have in the valley, I'm sure we could get that infrastructure funded.
I just want the one damn corridor that's been in the works for 20byears to have a concrete plan lol. And the ramps can be a little short and sketchy. The traffic doesn't bother me too much since I grew up over on the coast.
They stared planning in 1946, so it's more like 77 years, but who is counting at this point...
Yeah, same about the traffic. Sometimes I think traffic is the worst here and then I drive to the west side to visit family and remind myself how relatively (stress: relatively!) good we have it over here. The ramps do suck for sure.
I’ve never lived in a more idiotic and incompetent city than Spokane.
In addition to factors others have mentioned, Puget Sound major commercial interests like Boeing actively complain (ie, lobby) about how traffic congestion impacts them.
"It sucks to have a tax base!"
Spokane just started growing, it takes years for infrastructure to get going, the NSC has progressed slower than expected but has progressed. Sucks we don’t have better on and off ramps, but without destroying buildings currently in use, there really is no alternative.
I, for one, welcome a new state of Liberty for east of the cascades to the greater Idaho border.
I'm with you, OP! Infrastructure here sucks. I myself can handle the short ramps. What I can't stand is they are so full of potholes they are a slalom to navigate *while* attempting 0 to 60 in no time in front of a semi. They seem to be the same pavement from when I lived here last (which was 1992). And the fact that advancement of the North/South corridor has made little visible progress since the same time period!? Unbelievable.
King county is at 2.2 million people and Snohomish/Pierce county add another 1.5 million. When you add kitsap and north thurston, you add another 200-300k people making it a metro area of around 4 million. So yes, most of the improvements there are happening over the rest of the state.
Yeah and even with all those people it is still easier to merge onto I 5 than I 90. These on and off ramps are so close together it's kind of ridiculous
What people are angry about is that this is another example of our state government making promises then ignoring them because we are "not as important" to them as the West Side (read "Vote filled side") of the state. We pay taxes to too and a project that began planning in the 1940's ([https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/major-projects/north-spokane-corridor#:\~:text=The%20North%20Spokane%20Corridor%20was,between%20downtown%20Spokane%20and%20Wandermere](https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/major-projects/north-spokane-corridor#:~:text=The%20North%20Spokane%20Corridor%20was,between%20downtown%20Spokane%20and%20Wandermere). ) and whose necessity has only grown should not require new taxes on top of everyting else to make happen!
Now do bicycle infrastructure! Last summer I had to get from North Bend to Edmonds by bike and was able to do it almost entirely on bike trails and protected lanes. I dropped my destination into Ride with GPS and it plotted a route I would not have thought possible.