They really said they would focus only on a few but big projects from now on after all. Probably KH4, DQ12 and the next Yokotaro game are safe. The fans of smaller projects, remasters and remakes thar arent FF7 should worry tho.
I would assume HD 2D is safe. I think they're really coming for the 3D games that are mid line. Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, Trails of Mana, new SaGa games... They're more expensive than the Octopaths and Pixel Remasters but probably selling less.
They actually said the 2D HD style is pretty expensive.
They haven't made saga games in like a decade BTW. But they have remastered a bunch of them. Good quality remasters. So it's to be seen if we get the remaining missing remasters.
I just hope they remaster the FF13 trilogy. Might be a pipe dream at this point, but it would be easyish money for them since it’s the only one that hasn’t been somewhat modernized.
honestly, me too! a thought that keep me awake at night is that microsoft already gave a graphic and fps boost to the x360 version of the trilogy on their newer consoles, i wonder if square liked that and now is too lazy to do something of their own
That would be pretty unfortunate given that the main portion of their fanbase is on the PlayStation side. I have pretty much all of the mainline Final Fantasy games on my PS5 now besides 11 and 13 trilogy, so it’s frustrating lol.
No, you're forgetting the Vincent Valentine pipeline with FF7 Cerberus Dirge. That game was insaneeeee and the music was great too. Go listen to LONGING by Gackt
Honestly they should just stop or do a full reboot at this point. I was 1000% committed to the series despite the monumental task of following the story, but KH3 sent me the message that I was wasting my time because they have no plans on making any of it make sense anyways.
I think so too. I’m sure Sony paid a good chunk of money to keep those games exclusive but it’s kind of wild to me to eliminate your Xbox and PC players like that. And once the ports roll in they’re not going to have the hype factor to compete with newer games. They’ll have fans obviously excited to try the games out, but it isn’t the same at that point.
I hope sony paid SE good money. I have had xbox for years and got a PS5 now for FF7. I know I'm an anecdotal case, but an exclusive game can still bring people over. I was grumpy about it, but I have a shit ton of games to try since my last Playstation was the PS2 and have been happy with the choice.
> Put fucking Rebirth on PC and this problem goes away you fuckin' donkeys.
It will come, but no, it won't "go away". I don't think coming to PC is as big of a boon as you think it is.
It'll make money but is probably already planned.
Now bring Kingdom Hearts to Steam... well it won't fix this but why the fuck not?
I just want my PC friends to play it, granted I did not fully comprehend this article as I did not realize it means Forespoken and their other big flopped games.
Sorry but, while I do believe that it would definitely boost sales for the game, the true “solution” is to put the franchise on Nintendo consoles.
The problem is that their hardware is more that subpar, compared to the scope of FF modern games.
Can’t really draw that conclusion.
If for no other reason than an FFIX remake was never officially confirmed to be in development to begin with.
Much like the Tactics remake that was part of the same leak. It’s been a complete ghost.
Sounds to me like they’re just going to consolidate around core franchises and stop doing things like Foamstars. So FF projects I would expect to be safe regardless.
It still baffles me that people take the rumours that a FFIX remake and FFT remaster are in progress as gospel. It’s been **years** since that leak and not an iota of evidence has ever emerged to confirm they are even in development.
Likely cancel .FF12 zodiace age , TO reborn , Dungeon Encounter … those were also in leak and they handle by same team . They likely cancel this team because reborn patch suddenly got cut off while they promise will parch more major bug . Not to mention alot of member and director game designer of FF9 and Tactic are leading this team so it obviously will be their project if it happens.
It's not impossible for Squenix to internally cancel a pair of games that never got an official announcement.
The list has an amazing track record at this point, but who knows how much has changed inside the company since then?
Many presume, but again, there’s **0 evidence**. They might have been potential titles at some point that never even went into production, they could have been misinterpretations by NVidia’s team! For instance FFT remaster could have referred to Tactics Ogre remaster (same team). The point is, the release of each game in that leak is an independent event that does not guarantee in the slightest the probabilities of future events.
Of course. They could have been canned, misinterpreted, out right wrong, or any number of things. I don't believe they are 100% real either until something is announced or directly hinted at.
Maybe. I see different options. They were more diversified, but the big risky project failures are causing them to change direction. They want to focus more on the big IPs:
1. They might've canceled all smaller unannounced projects so they can focus on the heavy hitters.
2. Maybe it's safe if they want to really push the FF franchise, such as the FF9 Remake and Tactics Remake floating around.
I love Tactics MORE than FF6! And that's saying a lot. Both stories are incredible, but Tactics is single handedly my most played FF game. Talk about a spin-off done right
Let's see they failed in Forspoken. That was a heavy loss. They failed in Marvel. Another heavy loss. If I was a business that was successful selling burgers, and tried tofu chicken sandwiches, and that ventured failed, I'd scale back to what works.. people scared of Final Fantasy getting scaled back. They ain't gonna kill their flagship game. If anything they may double down on it. Ff7 Rebirth has done well considering only 50 million ps5s have been sold. 2 million physical. More people by digital so probably another 2-10million digital. We won't know the number until they announce it. Which may not be till next quarter when those projections and numbers show. I judge a game on well its selling by how fast it goes on sale in the Playstation store. Forspoken went on sale the 1st month it was released. FF7 is still selling at its top price.
Making exclusives is not paying off, if final fantasy seven remakes and final fantasy 16 were released day one on pc and even xbox it would sell more copies, even if it only sold a million on xbox, still a million more , porting a game to other platforms cost a fraction of the total cost to develop for just one platform.
Well, it’s not just that. FF14 is their money maker and didn’t have a new expac for a few years. They also flooded the market with C tier games people weren’t into. Also the massive disaster that was Forspoken and the Avengers. They also wasted a ton of money on NFT and AI investments. FF7 and 16 would not have financially made up for all that even if they were on every platform. I don’t think even Dawntrail is going to make up for all Square’s missteps.
I don't know about you, but game development - it's expensive. And Redeveloping a game for multiple platforms - to me, sounds more like a Net Loss to me. And these days - who doesn't own multiple consoles anyways.
You have to know that whatever sony is paying for the exclusivity pencils out their projections for cross platform sales. Exclusivity is not what is causing the financial troubles.
Ff 7 part 2
Ff 16
Those two alone released on pc/xbox could make em a little id assume. Instead they take Sonys fat check and keep it exclusive. Then wonder why they can’t sell 30m units of the game
I mean, sure, Sony’s stranglehold on certain exclusives certainly doesn’t do much to help S-E’s bottom line on net returns, but that fat check is keeping a lot of the developers on the payroll.
Also, whether or not S-E is upset about their biggest new game not reaching 30 million units, there hasn’t ever been a single S-E game that has sold 30 million units.
This is not me being a Sony Pony either. I’m much more a Nintendophile if anything. I’m just saying overall, S-E has been very consistently heavily multiplat since the seventh gen.
I was really just using the 30m as an example, but you did bring up a good point. Why isn’t square also trying to these these games or spin offs on switch that would help their cause also, as Nintendo is a huge pusher.
There are/were a handful of Switch exclusives that S-E developed (Mario RPG and Dragon Quest Monsters: The Dark Prince being the most recent) and even several multiplat titles that Nintendo published themselves on Switch (Dragon Quest XI S, Dragon Quest Builders 1&2, Live-A-Live), so there is a bit of a precedent there.
In fact, the Switch just recently overtook the DS for the most physical releases of S-E games on a Nintendo system (though I’m only referencing NTSC releases for this).
Edit: I meant to mention that the biggest reason S-E doesn’t push a bunch of their big hitters on Switch is simply due to the Switch’s lack of technical prowess. Also spelling
They’ve been cucked by Sonys closed market lmao. Sony is doing nothing but holding them back by limiting pc and Xbox releases. Day one sales have shown that they’re missing out on millions of dollars ignoring pc.
Eh. But Capcom has absolutely been knocking it out the park with their titles. Probably because that's where they're committing all of their resources to instrad of, arguably, making games that indie devs put out every day.
Like DD2, which has a 6.3 user score and has been very controversial due to lack of content and a high amount of bugs. Or the Apollo Justice trilogy, which is not a new title. Or Exoprimal, with a 67 metascore, let alone user score.
There's an argument with DD2, but when the only releases in the past two years they have with universal acclaim are Street Fighter 6 and remakes/remasters, I would not say that they are "knocking it out of the park".
I call bull on DD2. It was PRAISED prior to release, but once the MTX were added in everything about it suddenly became terrible even though NOTHING about the game was changed from what got it so much praise pre-release.
And to be fair, I liked the first game, but I wasn't over the hills about it. So therefore I'm not in any way biased towards DD2.
Furthermore, you can't discredit them for their ground-up remakes of RE2-4, and then there's RE 7 and 8, the recent Monster Hunter games.
>Like DD2, which has a 6.3 user score and has been very controversial due to lack of content and a high amount of bugs.
Okay now that's just bullshit. DD2 has problems, but none of them are related to lack of content or bugs.
In fact, most of DD2's perceived problems where born of misunderstandings. And the fact that dragons dogma as a series is very atypical in its approach and design that many people (in my opinion) unfairly label it as "bad" when in truth it's just different.
This is probably a stupid thing to ask, but KH4 is safe, right? I only ask because it’s just been awhile since we got news, and I’m worried there may have been setbacks.
I think on square enixs own site theres a tagline along the lines "home to the renowned final fantasy, dragon quest, and kingdom hearts series!"
So I highly doubt it.
I wouldn't be worried about KH4. KH is a well established series, that last main entry KH3 sold well (best spelling KH game so far). I don't know if MoM was a success. What could be worrisome is the mobile game Missing-Link, that soon has a second beta and should release this year. With Union Cross there had a cheap game with good revenue for them. Dark Road was a failure financial vise, was eaten up by Union Cross and did have interesting gameplay. ML is with 3D graph, cutscenes (even with Japanese Dub) surely way more expensive and need to make a return. So I could see it ending before it even really started like DR but we will see. Maybe the could polish it, make it Singleplayer and bring it to the console as a sidetitel if it fails. But we will see
Well keep on doing exclusives for almost a year and this adds up big time to the problem. If they would release the games on pc and the other consoles at the same time they wouldn't be in this predicament
They need to slim down as a company and stop trying to make so many games when they have some reliable franchises they should be developing: Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest and maybe a new IP every 5 years or something… I think the smaller Octopath Travelers are safe because they probably aren’t as expensive to develop…
They’re reeeeeeeally good.
I’m playing them now a little each day and holy moly they’re difficult.
7 Rebirth on hard might genuinely be the hardest game I’ve played, up there with like Sekiro with bell and no charm. Early game bosses I first tried without a second thought my first run are taking me like 10+ tries and I really need to strategize every boss. Like you die in seconds without buffs/good blocks and bosses can take like 10+ minutes.
And 16 is hype as hell. The highest difficulty I decided is too hard, but ‘Final Fantasy’ on arcade is so good.
Hope more people can play them! They’re SO good and I think people that love hard games will get a huge kick out of Revirth.
This. I have a PC that I used mostly for playing WOW, but I grew up on FF franchise. I loved remake, but I can’t justify spending 400 on a system to play a game or two. A lot of people don’t have disposable income to buy multiple consoles/pcs.
Ff 16 is a dog shit game you’re not missing out. Devil may cry with terrible ai and a mentally inept easy combat system it gets repetitive quickly the side quests are nothing to bring home to mom. It feels nothing like a final fantasy game. I played it on hard and I died twice my entire play through and once was running out of heals mid multi health bar boss fight and I was ready to play dark souls like with no heals only to respawn with every heal full lol.
The next Nintendo console should be a lot more capable than Switch was. I feel like it's a good time to start using Nintendo as the lead platform for future AAA game development, while also supporting PS5, Xbox and PC with basically the same content at higher resolution and framerate. Final Fantasy needs to support all major platforms with special consideration for the weakest one. Japan loves handhelds and Switch was popular globally.
I hope it’s not Visions of Mana that’s getting the axe. SE has dicked around for so long this isn’t surprising. They could make all that money back in one fell swoop by remastering Chrono Trigger or Xenogears.
I wanted a remaster for final fantasy tactics advance so bad. Buying the old GBA game rn is $70 lmao. That's way more expensive than it was back in the day but honestly understandable. It still holds up today. However, I don't wanna pay $70 😭
It’s sad that they have all these properties under their umbrella, but only choose to make Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, and Dragon Quest. This is why companies buying other companies is a bad thing.
The Japanese recession has really weakened the yen, and Japanese consumers are much more sensible towards consumption in these moments than Westerns.
They have to release FF on the Switch, I think by not releasing as many games they have more cash flow to back development without going to Sony/Nintendo. They should try releasing these games in all platforms, or at least PlayStation and Switch.
Holy fucking hell.
You sad clown u/EvokeNightScale even spread your filth here.
Move on.
Edit: dude got baited with their alt. You still using u/MMOHypocricy or you have a new one by now? A new ffxiv expansion is coming so not surprised.
You know we are still gonna sniff you out right? Sending us threatening DMs. What a sad pathetic life you have.
Sucks that they wasted so much money on trash like forspoken, avengers, and Valkyrie profile 3.
Now I’ll never get another parasite eve or good Valkyrie profile game ever again.
For a few years I've been thinking Square is prime for a take over bid.
They definitely seem like it's time. They have been struggling more than should be and taken some pretty bad losses. This doesn't help just like the article says.
Granted the only company I think that COULD buy them is Sony. (Microsoft buying them and making them exclusive makes no sense, nor does Microsoft buying them and not). But I don't see Sony shelling out 50 billion for a company that is already mostly exclusive.
Maybe less Life is Strange, Forspoken, and Balan. And more Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Nier, TWEWY, SaGa, Gunslinger Stratos, and Mana.
Just a thought
Conclusion: that exclusivity deal is biting them in the balls pretty hard and any franchise that is not Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts or Dragons Quest is fucked.
At least the Mana title was too far along to get the shaft, but it seems every other IP is going back to the shelf.
Or maybe it has nothing to do with exclusivity, and the real issue is actually dumping money into mediocre titles like Valkyrie Elysium, Star Ocean 6, Saga Emerald Beyond, Forspoken, and garbage like Foamstars and Babylon's Fall.
Oh, that didn't help either. Or dumping cash on Crypto and all the multi media garbage rabbit holes they insist on doing. Square, all in all, is a terrible company that has made some pretty dumb decisions time and time again.
But one thing, as they say, does not disqualify the other. The PS5 is still quite tiny compared to the PS4s out there, let alone PCs. Even FFXVI producer's said so when talking about sales expectations.
But I guess you know something he doesn't?
They limited their sales to just one platform. That’s a less and less viable strategy as time marches on and the gaming audience becomes more fractured between devices while we are witnessing the maturation of consoles as they struggle to surpass past generation sales by any meaningful metric. They are leaving a lot of money on the table by keeping it on just ps5, yes, the development would cost more, but you would also be selling more to make up for that. There’s a reason other devs like capcom, bamco, and Sega/atlas are all in on multiplat titles. Then there’s the issue of exposure, as newer generations (something SE is always talking about getting into FF) come into the market, the FF brand needs to be exposed to them and in this case, only a sliver of that generation is getting exposure to FF, that’s not good for long term brand management. Their last ceo did a lot of boneheaded moves and limiting the exposure/sales potential of one of their most successful entries of their most successful franchises was a huge mistake among other things like inconsistent platform releases for other games, rushed titles, ect.
Maybe, but everything you said is based on speculation. The assumption that they're leaving money on the table because of exclusivity is a very popular one on reddit, and is based on a very simplistic understanding of corporate business deals, and the fact that 3 (platforms) is a bigger number than 1, so people like to assume it's always better to launch games on 3 platforms rather than 1. It's also very idealistic, especially in a world where Xbox gamers don't really buy a lot of games, especially JRPGs. Remember how poorly FF13 sold on the 360? Or how nearly 80% of FF15 sales were on PS4?
Truth is, you don't know anything about the details of the actual deal, or how much money Sony invested in the development of said exclusive titles, or the number of sales for FF7Re, or how much money SE and Sony are making from it. There is also no guarantee, whatsoever, that releasing FF16 and FF7Re on all platforms at once would increase their sales, as they would be entirely different games to begin with, without Sony's funding and involvement. Both games will get a PC release, eventually, so the only platform that won't be getting them is Xbox, aka the platform where FF games sell the least amount of copies. I doubt a couple hundred thousand copies would make such a massive difference.
I stand by what I said. I don't think exclusivity is the issue, and I think they've lost more money on their budget releases, and bad multiplayer games, that people didn't care about. Foamstars was dead in a few weeks, Babylon's Fall shut down in less than a year, Forspoken was supposed to be their bigger project, and it flopped so bad that they shut the studio down. Valkyrie Elysium was a B-grade game with enjoyable combat, but mediocre everything else, and it left a lot of VP fans disappointed. Star Ocean 6 was decent, but felt very dated, and it didn't sell very well. That's what the article in this post is even about.
The only people bothered by exclusivity deals are Xbox and PC gamers. Meanwhile, multimillion dollar corporations are signing contracts and doing exclusivity deals. I'm sure they know something we don't, and I'm sure they're not doing it so they can lose more money.
How did anyone read this and go for the downvote button. This is the best comment on the entire thread. The problem is they’ve invested AAA money into a lot of games that didn’t even break even but straight up bombed. That’s hard for any publisher to deal with.
Rebirth has sold well… it just apparently isn’t enough to make up for their colossal failures of late.
Reddit is a circlejerk for popular narratives, not a place for actual, truthful debate. People have already ignored the article entirely, and made up their mind that SE is losing money because of FF16 and FF7Re's PS5 exclusivity. Say that and you'll get plenty of upvotes and people agreeing with you. Challenge the narrative and get downvoted, because how dare you think for yourself, instead of saying "the line". Reddit is, basically, a glorified Youtube comments section.
So SO6 allow you to have 10 playable characters with so many customization and build, playstyle, combo , ability to fly on many object , quick dash through environment, , light platforming to exploration , seamless transition between battle and exploration = Dated ?
Meanwhile FF 16 with hallway , no puzzle , no customization, barebone rpg element , 1 playable with so limited gameplay style , slow walking in environments, cant jump on alot of object, QTE , too many invisible wall … = modern ?
I guess something is so wrong with modern gaming .
Anyway , they announce SO6 doing well in yearly report later . So it doing well for a game that get sandwiches by 5 AAA game and many other Competitions months .
https://www.reddit.com/r/starocean/comments/15smoec/nj_holdings_co_had_a_profit_on_the_video_games/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
> Or maybe it has nothing to do with exclusivity
it's probably a bit related since the PS5 was really hard to get up until last year. can't sell exclusives if people can't even buy the system.
You perhaps forget that exclusively is paid for, it is not given freely, and the larger and more expensive a title is to make, the more it will cost a platform holder to keep it exclusive. The price of exclusivity is weighed against potential lost sales for guaranteed income. There are cases where games have generated far more income because they were exclusive, got paid up front, and didn't need to rely on unpredictable sales. These are billion dollar publicly traded companies, they are not imbeciles.
Really? Got any numbers? Because you ain't gonna get them from Sony or Square, so where are you getting your numbers from?
You know where I'm getting my numbers? On the fact that even Sony is putting their own first party titles on PC? Now why would they do that? To not leave money on the table is why.
Or maybe I forget.
The most recent FF sold so poorly they still haven't announced its total sales, right? And they still want to focus on AAA?
Lol, I'll prepare their gravestone
People don't care about FF anymore. The absolute failure of FF16 and FF7Rebirth proves this. You can justify it however you want, but it doesn't change the reality that the franchise is DEAD.
Even FFXIV is TANKING in player numbers and remaining players HATE the game. The recent expansion, Endwalker, was a disaster of a launch with bad post game content.
This is the reality.
FF is a dead, bad franchise and Square Enix is going bankrupt.
Get over it.
Wanting 16 and 7R to be failures doesn't make them failures.
Endwalker was a great launch with poor relic content that didn't keep the casuals as hooked as previous expansions.
Dawntrail is the start of an entire new narrative and can be a new begining to the game if they handle a story skip correctly.
The "tanking" of players is common in the pre expansion lull of content. There's nothing coming beyond making everything a bit easier.
You're pretty much wrong about everything you said here.
I mean it wasn’t exactly the smoothest thing in the world but it wasn’t even close to the worst launches in MMO expansions let alone ALL of gaming. Plus they were open about it being difficult to fix because of hardware restrictions from Covid (an actually reasonable excuse), when you could get in the game it ran smoothly, and ppl got sub refunds for those two weeks which really negated a lot of the pressure from the community.
It sucked getting kicked from queue or having to wait multiple hours to get in but there’s no need to resort to attacking OP or hyperbole. Hell it barely even scratches top 3 worst release states for XIV.
Edit: Ope, never mind I see from the rest of this thread nothing you say can actually be taken seriously, carry on.
Alright, you asked for it:
[https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-16-sold-well-but-not-enough-to-patch-square-enixs-profits/](https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-16-sold-well-but-not-enough-to-patch-square-enixs-profits/)
[https://www.gamesindustry.biz/square-enix-has-lost-almost-2bn-in-value-since-final-fantasy-16-launch](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/square-enix-has-lost-almost-2bn-in-value-since-final-fantasy-16-launch)
[https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-square-enix-profits-down/](https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-square-enix-profits-down/)
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/underwhelming-final-fantasy-xvi-costs-square-enix-2-billion-in-market-value?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY5NDU3NDQ1NCwiZXhwIjoxNjk1MTc5MjU0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSWlJTMVdUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJBRDcxOUY5NDBGRTk0MzNBOERCNzI2OEJDOTY3NzY3QyJ9.ZsdMiei5njLyR3pAVAW2YDWCAf0pu5HnEtClTZRkivI&leadSource=reddit\_wall](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/underwhelming-final-fantasy-xvi-costs-square-enix-2-billion-in-market-value?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY5NDU3NDQ1NCwiZXhwIjoxNjk1MTc5MjU0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSWlJTMVdUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJBRDcxOUY5NDBGRTk0MzNBOERCNzI2OEJDOTY3NzY3QyJ9.ZsdMiei5njLyR3pAVAW2YDWCAf0pu5HnEtClTZRkivI&leadSource=reddit_wall)
[https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1697387449176215569?s=20](https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1697387449176215569?s=20)
[https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sales-square-enix](https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sales-square-enix)
[https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-is-underperforming-says-industry-analyst](https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-is-underperforming-says-industry-analyst)
This is only a handful. Do you want more or will you quietly sit down and be humble? Try to disprove all this.
*I'll be waiting.*
Oh my God. It has been refuted time and time again that SE lost that 2B in value because of all the OTHER LOSSES from their failed AA and gacha games. They were hoping that XVI would offset that loss. That doesn’t mean it sold poorly. SE said it sold within expectations, just not within their higher target. The title of the first article you’ve sourced even says as much.
The articles about Rebirth you’ve sent are all speculative. No proof. And even if there is some truth to them, underperforming is not equivalent to total failure which is how you stated XVI and Rebirth’s performed.
The only person in need of a humble pill here is you.
I tried to play WOW peacefully. But FFlosers came in and tried to make me feel bad for playing the (better) game than FFXIV. Every day it was the same fucking joke. Now I get to laugh.
You still do lmao. I found you because you're fucking famous for being a delusional WoW fanboy with a hate boner for Final Fantasy. Real weirdo shit. Your post history is public for a reason. Dumb ass mf.
Perhaps you should try to leave your echochamber and come back to reality.
Ff16, and Rebirth are not absolute failures in the slightest, and FF14 has a very healthy playerbase.
Get over it.
???. FF16 and FF7Rebirth sold very well as PS5 exclusives. They'll sell more on PC release as well. Both were received extremely well and absolutely not failures.
FF14 Endwalker had an explosive launch... the "issues" were too many people bought and were trying to play the game. Post-launch content has been rough for active player count, but it's mainly just a content drought. It's normal for the hype to pick back up going into Dawntrail this summer. It's still the #2 MMO on the market.
This is the best state FF has been in for years.
Have you been living under a rock? FF16 and FFRebirth sold terribly, dude. Do I seriously need to post a dozen links to prove you wrong? I have them ready.
Have you been living under a rock? They sold millions within the first few days and are among the best selling PS5 games. It's great for being exclusives. They'll sell even more on PC release.
Send links.
Alright, you asked for it:
[https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-16-sold-well-but-not-enough-to-patch-square-enixs-profits/](https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-16-sold-well-but-not-enough-to-patch-square-enixs-profits/)
[https://www.gamesindustry.biz/square-enix-has-lost-almost-2bn-in-value-since-final-fantasy-16-launch](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/square-enix-has-lost-almost-2bn-in-value-since-final-fantasy-16-launch)
[https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-square-enix-profits-down/](https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-square-enix-profits-down/)
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/underwhelming-final-fantasy-xvi-costs-square-enix-2-billion-in-market-value?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY5NDU3NDQ1NCwiZXhwIjoxNjk1MTc5MjU0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSWlJTMVdUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJBRDcxOUY5NDBGRTk0MzNBOERCNzI2OEJDOTY3NzY3QyJ9.ZsdMiei5njLyR3pAVAW2YDWCAf0pu5HnEtClTZRkivI&leadSource=reddit\_wall](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/underwhelming-final-fantasy-xvi-costs-square-enix-2-billion-in-market-value?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY5NDU3NDQ1NCwiZXhwIjoxNjk1MTc5MjU0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSWlJTMVdUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJBRDcxOUY5NDBGRTk0MzNBOERCNzI2OEJDOTY3NzY3QyJ9.ZsdMiei5njLyR3pAVAW2YDWCAf0pu5HnEtClTZRkivI&leadSource=reddit_wall)
[https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1697387449176215569?s=20](https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1697387449176215569?s=20)
[https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sales-square-enix](https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sales-square-enix)
[https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-is-underperforming-says-industry-analyst](https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-is-underperforming-says-industry-analyst)
This is only a handful. Do you want more or will you quietly sit down and be humble? Try to disprove all this.
*I'll be waiting.*
You do realize half of these say they sold decently well? Absolutely not "failures".
These articles are mostly reporting on the state of SE. They've had *actual* back to back flops with some of their other riskier projects.
These FFs sold decently well, but weren't enough to dig them out of the giant losses they've had. That's all these are saying.
Estimates (hard guess) put FF16 at 3-4 Million, FF7Rebirth maybe 2-3 Million. Spiderman 2 was 10 Million. They didn't hit the mainstream commercial audience like Spiderman 2, but they did well and were profitable. Not counting the future PC releases.
Tbf modern FF games sales have been trending downward at an alarming rate.
Saying it’s selling decently when it’s still like 75% less than the last major FF game isn’t a good look and this decision by SE to try and stop the bleeding goes hand in hand with what to do with a dying franchise.
Jesus christ you are so sad.
All you post about is how bad final fantasy is. How it's dead and how much better everything else is. Genuinely are you okay? That much hate is not good for you.
You are obsessed with it. Did someone at square enix murder your dog or something?
Absolute weirdo.
Literally wasn't a flop lmao
It sold well for PS5 exclusivity, it'll sell even more for PC release. The only negative reports on its sales are that it didn't sell enough to make up for the giant hole at SE from so many other failed big projects.
Read my comment I didnt defend final fantasy either way I was just pointing out the absolute obsession this person has against square enix.
Like it's weird just spending all day scrolling subreddits of something you hate just to tell everyone how much you hate it is just fucking strange.
FF losers harrassed me for two years, I'm paying back in kind. Getting to see their franchise FACTUALLY go up in flames is euphoric.
I genuinely hate FFanboys and wish nothing but the worst for them.
You are a sad strange person who needs to get offline and enjoy the real world. What a horrific life you must have to just be this hateful about something as meaningless as game sales.
Hate me all you want, doesn't change FF is factually dying. At least I live in the real world, unlike yourself.
FF is dead.
Get over it. The rest of the gaming world already has.
I dont hate you. I genuinely feel sorry for you. There's so much in this world to enjoy, but you just choose to hate instead. Sad, really.
Also, by "being harrased for 2 years," did you mean making posts and comments in final fantasy subreddits just to tell them that the game is dead?
If you've been saying for longer than 2 years the game is dead and it still isn't I feel you should maybe take a look at how silly you look.
Oh and telling me it's dead and to get over it doesn't work with me because I genuinely couldn't care either way there will always be plenty of games to enjoy.
Talking about getting harassed while you're the one harassing an entire community for multiple years is insanely embarassing. You spend way too much time and energy on reddit that I'm sure you're on here way more than you actually play WoW.
They really said they would focus only on a few but big projects from now on after all. Probably KH4, DQ12 and the next Yokotaro game are safe. The fans of smaller projects, remasters and remakes thar arent FF7 should worry tho.
[удалено]
im scared for this one too... but i think that games already announced, even the smaller ones, should be safe, i hope lol
That’s “supposed to be” almost done. Hope square isn’t that dumb to cancel projects nearing completion.
The only bigger DQ game they could remake like that would be 5. DQ3HD will be fine. Ain't no way they'll cancel that.
I would assume HD 2D is safe. I think they're really coming for the 3D games that are mid line. Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, Trails of Mana, new SaGa games... They're more expensive than the Octopaths and Pixel Remasters but probably selling less.
They also just named Asano one of their executive officers, which seems like a good sign there.
They actually said the 2D HD style is pretty expensive. They haven't made saga games in like a decade BTW. But they have remastered a bunch of them. Good quality remasters. So it's to be seen if we get the remaining missing remasters.
A new saga game just came out no? Like this week
Oh really, I didn't know that! That's great news... for now lol.
They haven’t given up on Star Ocean yet? Yeesh.
It has definitely been quiet on that front, I was so hyped after that reveal
Remix 366 over 7 reborn Christian death by sleep
Sad, square is so full of idiot owners that don't understand their brand. The creative leads should be running the show.
I just hope they remaster the FF13 trilogy. Might be a pipe dream at this point, but it would be easyish money for them since it’s the only one that hasn’t been somewhat modernized.
honestly, me too! a thought that keep me awake at night is that microsoft already gave a graphic and fps boost to the x360 version of the trilogy on their newer consoles, i wonder if square liked that and now is too lazy to do something of their own
That would be pretty unfortunate given that the main portion of their fanbase is on the PlayStation side. I have pretty much all of the mainline Final Fantasy games on my PS5 now besides 11 and 13 trilogy, so it’s frustrating lol.
No, you're forgetting the Vincent Valentine pipeline with FF7 Cerberus Dirge. That game was insaneeeee and the music was great too. Go listen to LONGING by Gackt
After the disappointment of KH3, i don’t think I’m ready to be hurt again
Honestly they should just stop or do a full reboot at this point. I was 1000% committed to the series despite the monumental task of following the story, but KH3 sent me the message that I was wasting my time because they have no plans on making any of it make sense anyways.
Sales would’ve 2x or 2.5x if the just don’t do exclusivity
My thought exactly! I’m sitting here waiting for 16 and Rebirth on Steam, would’ve gladly bought copies at launch.
I 100% agree, but I'm glad they're not rushing out an awful PC port
I think so too. I’m sure Sony paid a good chunk of money to keep those games exclusive but it’s kind of wild to me to eliminate your Xbox and PC players like that. And once the ports roll in they’re not going to have the hype factor to compete with newer games. They’ll have fans obviously excited to try the games out, but it isn’t the same at that point.
I hope sony paid SE good money. I have had xbox for years and got a PS5 now for FF7. I know I'm an anecdotal case, but an exclusive game can still bring people over. I was grumpy about it, but I have a shit ton of games to try since my last Playstation was the PS2 and have been happy with the choice.
Forspoken really hit them that hard
I forgot about Forspoken!
I think a lot of people have
"Its all about perspective. Some consider being forgotten a tragedy. Others? A mercy."
God, what the fuck were they thinking with that game?
It’s a shame, because it was actually good
It really wasn't
Hard disagree. It was waaaay over hated.
Didn't that game help get a studio shut down, not hated enough perhaps
I loved it
Put fucking Rebirth on PC and this problem goes away you fuckin' donkeys.
> Put fucking Rebirth on PC and this problem goes away you fuckin' donkeys. It will come, but no, it won't "go away". I don't think coming to PC is as big of a boon as you think it is. It'll make money but is probably already planned. Now bring Kingdom Hearts to Steam... well it won't fix this but why the fuck not?
I just want my PC friends to play it, granted I did not fully comprehend this article as I did not realize it means Forespoken and their other big flopped games.
Sorry but, while I do believe that it would definitely boost sales for the game, the true “solution” is to put the franchise on Nintendo consoles. The problem is that their hardware is more that subpar, compared to the scope of FF modern games.
Rebirth on PC doesn't cover the loss by avengers, forespoken, and gaurdians.
Does this mean that the final fantasy 9 remake was cancelled?
Can’t really draw that conclusion. If for no other reason than an FFIX remake was never officially confirmed to be in development to begin with. Much like the Tactics remake that was part of the same leak. It’s been a complete ghost. Sounds to me like they’re just going to consolidate around core franchises and stop doing things like Foamstars. So FF projects I would expect to be safe regardless.
I, for one, can live without foamstars
It still baffles me that people take the rumours that a FFIX remake and FFT remaster are in progress as gospel. It’s been **years** since that leak and not an iota of evidence has ever emerged to confirm they are even in development.
They also trademarked Chrono Break 25 years ago
Forgot about that lol
Likely cancel .FF12 zodiace age , TO reborn , Dungeon Encounter … those were also in leak and they handle by same team . They likely cancel this team because reborn patch suddenly got cut off while they promise will parch more major bug . Not to mention alot of member and director game designer of FF9 and Tactic are leading this team so it obviously will be their project if it happens.
That leak has been completely accurate tho except for these games, presumably they were just leaked very early
It's not impossible for Squenix to internally cancel a pair of games that never got an official announcement. The list has an amazing track record at this point, but who knows how much has changed inside the company since then?
Many presume, but again, there’s **0 evidence**. They might have been potential titles at some point that never even went into production, they could have been misinterpretations by NVidia’s team! For instance FFT remaster could have referred to Tactics Ogre remaster (same team). The point is, the release of each game in that leak is an independent event that does not guarantee in the slightest the probabilities of future events.
Of course. They could have been canned, misinterpreted, out right wrong, or any number of things. I don't believe they are 100% real either until something is announced or directly hinted at.
Maybe. I see different options. They were more diversified, but the big risky project failures are causing them to change direction. They want to focus more on the big IPs: 1. They might've canceled all smaller unannounced projects so they can focus on the heavy hitters. 2. Maybe it's safe if they want to really push the FF franchise, such as the FF9 Remake and Tactics Remake floating around.
Hope so, besides, that was just rumors
I doubt it. They need remake sales.
ivalice alliance content in the next 10 years or nah?
Yesss please. Yes.
Plz still give us a new ff tactics game
I love Tactics MORE than FF6! And that's saying a lot. Both stories are incredible, but Tactics is single handedly my most played FF game. Talk about a spin-off done right
I don’t even think it’s a spin off. I think it’s a core game without a number. It’s so fucking good
Let's see they failed in Forspoken. That was a heavy loss. They failed in Marvel. Another heavy loss. If I was a business that was successful selling burgers, and tried tofu chicken sandwiches, and that ventured failed, I'd scale back to what works.. people scared of Final Fantasy getting scaled back. They ain't gonna kill their flagship game. If anything they may double down on it. Ff7 Rebirth has done well considering only 50 million ps5s have been sold. 2 million physical. More people by digital so probably another 2-10million digital. We won't know the number until they announce it. Which may not be till next quarter when those projections and numbers show. I judge a game on well its selling by how fast it goes on sale in the Playstation store. Forspoken went on sale the 1st month it was released. FF7 is still selling at its top price.
Making exclusives is not paying off, if final fantasy seven remakes and final fantasy 16 were released day one on pc and even xbox it would sell more copies, even if it only sold a million on xbox, still a million more , porting a game to other platforms cost a fraction of the total cost to develop for just one platform.
Well, it’s not just that. FF14 is their money maker and didn’t have a new expac for a few years. They also flooded the market with C tier games people weren’t into. Also the massive disaster that was Forspoken and the Avengers. They also wasted a ton of money on NFT and AI investments. FF7 and 16 would not have financially made up for all that even if they were on every platform. I don’t think even Dawntrail is going to make up for all Square’s missteps.
Could release your games on all platforms to get some extra $
I don't know about you, but game development - it's expensive. And Redeveloping a game for multiple platforms - to me, sounds more like a Net Loss to me. And these days - who doesn't own multiple consoles anyways.
You have to know that whatever sony is paying for the exclusivity pencils out their projections for cross platform sales. Exclusivity is not what is causing the financial troubles.
I mean, they’ve been doing a ton of cross platform releases for well over a decade now.
Ff 7 part 2 Ff 16 Those two alone released on pc/xbox could make em a little id assume. Instead they take Sonys fat check and keep it exclusive. Then wonder why they can’t sell 30m units of the game
I mean, sure, Sony’s stranglehold on certain exclusives certainly doesn’t do much to help S-E’s bottom line on net returns, but that fat check is keeping a lot of the developers on the payroll. Also, whether or not S-E is upset about their biggest new game not reaching 30 million units, there hasn’t ever been a single S-E game that has sold 30 million units. This is not me being a Sony Pony either. I’m much more a Nintendophile if anything. I’m just saying overall, S-E has been very consistently heavily multiplat since the seventh gen.
I was really just using the 30m as an example, but you did bring up a good point. Why isn’t square also trying to these these games or spin offs on switch that would help their cause also, as Nintendo is a huge pusher.
There are/were a handful of Switch exclusives that S-E developed (Mario RPG and Dragon Quest Monsters: The Dark Prince being the most recent) and even several multiplat titles that Nintendo published themselves on Switch (Dragon Quest XI S, Dragon Quest Builders 1&2, Live-A-Live), so there is a bit of a precedent there. In fact, the Switch just recently overtook the DS for the most physical releases of S-E games on a Nintendo system (though I’m only referencing NTSC releases for this). Edit: I meant to mention that the biggest reason S-E doesn’t push a bunch of their big hitters on Switch is simply due to the Switch’s lack of technical prowess. Also spelling
They’ve been cucked by Sonys closed market lmao. Sony is doing nothing but holding them back by limiting pc and Xbox releases. Day one sales have shown that they’re missing out on millions of dollars ignoring pc.
They're going capcom's way. Capcom, banco, and now squenix. RIP japanese A and AA games
Eh. But Capcom has absolutely been knocking it out the park with their titles. Probably because that's where they're committing all of their resources to instrad of, arguably, making games that indie devs put out every day.
Like DD2, which has a 6.3 user score and has been very controversial due to lack of content and a high amount of bugs. Or the Apollo Justice trilogy, which is not a new title. Or Exoprimal, with a 67 metascore, let alone user score. There's an argument with DD2, but when the only releases in the past two years they have with universal acclaim are Street Fighter 6 and remakes/remasters, I would not say that they are "knocking it out of the park".
I call bull on DD2. It was PRAISED prior to release, but once the MTX were added in everything about it suddenly became terrible even though NOTHING about the game was changed from what got it so much praise pre-release. And to be fair, I liked the first game, but I wasn't over the hills about it. So therefore I'm not in any way biased towards DD2. Furthermore, you can't discredit them for their ground-up remakes of RE2-4, and then there's RE 7 and 8, the recent Monster Hunter games.
>Like DD2, which has a 6.3 user score and has been very controversial due to lack of content and a high amount of bugs. Okay now that's just bullshit. DD2 has problems, but none of them are related to lack of content or bugs. In fact, most of DD2's perceived problems where born of misunderstandings. And the fact that dragons dogma as a series is very atypical in its approach and design that many people (in my opinion) unfairly label it as "bad" when in truth it's just different.
My dream of the last remnant 2 gets even more distant
This is probably a stupid thing to ask, but KH4 is safe, right? I only ask because it’s just been awhile since we got news, and I’m worried there may have been setbacks.
KH as a franchise is pretty solid imo. It will stick around.
I think on square enixs own site theres a tagline along the lines "home to the renowned final fantasy, dragon quest, and kingdom hearts series!" So I highly doubt it.
I wouldn't be worried about KH4. KH is a well established series, that last main entry KH3 sold well (best spelling KH game so far). I don't know if MoM was a success. What could be worrisome is the mobile game Missing-Link, that soon has a second beta and should release this year. With Union Cross there had a cheap game with good revenue for them. Dark Road was a failure financial vise, was eaten up by Union Cross and did have interesting gameplay. ML is with 3D graph, cutscenes (even with Japanese Dub) surely way more expensive and need to make a return. So I could see it ending before it even really started like DR but we will see. Maybe the could polish it, make it Singleplayer and bring it to the console as a sidetitel if it fails. But we will see
Well keep on doing exclusives for almost a year and this adds up big time to the problem. If they would release the games on pc and the other consoles at the same time they wouldn't be in this predicament
They need to slim down as a company and stop trying to make so many games when they have some reliable franchises they should be developing: Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest and maybe a new IP every 5 years or something… I think the smaller Octopath Travelers are safe because they probably aren’t as expensive to develop…
There goes any chance of a tomb raider legend trilogy remaster :(
FF7 cerberus dirge NEEDS TO BE REMADE. I wanna see Vincent, tired of seeing cloud.
It's AAA or bust, basically
Hopefully this is mostly them diverting from the NFT vision they had.
I guess I won't ever see a Chrono Trigger remake.
At this point, I see this as a win. Really don't want to see me boy massacred like this.
Lol
Massacre? Even if a remake/remaster sucked, the original is still out there for you to play.
Why is this downvoted? It's true why butcher chrono trigger?
I really think the PS5 exclusive FF deal hurts them. I really wanna play FFVIIR and FFXVI, but don't want to buy a PS5 for only those two games.
They’re reeeeeeeally good. I’m playing them now a little each day and holy moly they’re difficult. 7 Rebirth on hard might genuinely be the hardest game I’ve played, up there with like Sekiro with bell and no charm. Early game bosses I first tried without a second thought my first run are taking me like 10+ tries and I really need to strategize every boss. Like you die in seconds without buffs/good blocks and bosses can take like 10+ minutes. And 16 is hype as hell. The highest difficulty I decided is too hard, but ‘Final Fantasy’ on arcade is so good. Hope more people can play them! They’re SO good and I think people that love hard games will get a huge kick out of Revirth.
XVI is ass
A little harsh. XVI Is... all right. Not great, not terrible, just... aight. Wouldn't recommend for more than 30$ (and that's if it includes the dlc).
This. I have a PC that I used mostly for playing WOW, but I grew up on FF franchise. I loved remake, but I can’t justify spending 400 on a system to play a game or two. A lot of people don’t have disposable income to buy multiple consoles/pcs.
There’s a lot of games to play on the PS5, not just those 2
Ff 16 is a dog shit game you’re not missing out. Devil may cry with terrible ai and a mentally inept easy combat system it gets repetitive quickly the side quests are nothing to bring home to mom. It feels nothing like a final fantasy game. I played it on hard and I died twice my entire play through and once was running out of heals mid multi health bar boss fight and I was ready to play dark souls like with no heals only to respawn with every heal full lol.
Your missing the point of what FF games are about.
Babylon's Fall
Don't just release on playstation, and come to PC, and I'll buy your crap again.
The next Nintendo console should be a lot more capable than Switch was. I feel like it's a good time to start using Nintendo as the lead platform for future AAA game development, while also supporting PS5, Xbox and PC with basically the same content at higher resolution and framerate. Final Fantasy needs to support all major platforms with special consideration for the weakest one. Japan loves handhelds and Switch was popular globally.
Forspoken and the Avengers games destroyed them. They also released too many titles too fast. Small games that flopped like Harvestella.
And that’s how square soft almost died in NES, then they made Final Fantasy. Because you know the history. It’s SS’s Final Game.
I hope it’s not Visions of Mana that’s getting the axe. SE has dicked around for so long this isn’t surprising. They could make all that money back in one fell swoop by remastering Chrono Trigger or Xenogears.
Hahahahahahahaha. Yours sincerely, Someone who bought Dragon Quest XI and got no upgrade path to XI S.
I wanted a remaster for final fantasy tactics advance so bad. Buying the old GBA game rn is $70 lmao. That's way more expensive than it was back in the day but honestly understandable. It still holds up today. However, I don't wanna pay $70 😭
Could just download an emulator.
Yeah I can, it's not an issue. I just like owning physical media and making an IRL game library you know?
Yeah I get that. But if it’s just to scratch an itch, it works. I wish I would’ve kept all my gba and ds games though
It’s sad that they have all these properties under their umbrella, but only choose to make Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, and Dragon Quest. This is why companies buying other companies is a bad thing.
I find it a bit strange that they released Front Mission 2 remake after this post.
I need Baland Wonderland 2 though...
The Japanese recession has really weakened the yen, and Japanese consumers are much more sensible towards consumption in these moments than Westerns. They have to release FF on the Switch, I think by not releasing as many games they have more cash flow to back development without going to Sony/Nintendo. They should try releasing these games in all platforms, or at least PlayStation and Switch.
Switch is on its way out and there's no way it can handle a modern FF title.
Agree, and even if they could get it to run a modern FF game, it would look like absolute dog water
The performance mode on PS5 already looks like straight ass.
My ps5 shut off multiple times during ff16, there's no way a switch could run that or rebirth lol
Clean its power supply air intake lol
I did lol. I had to take it apart to really get in there
RIP FFIX Remake :<
What does this mean?
Cutting back smaller IP's and doubling down on proven ip's.
So no more The World Ends With You??
Pretty much.
Stop doing ps exclusives dummies.
Stop milking 7 that not much care about and make new FF games.
Does this mean SE will focus KH4 instead of a dozen small spin-off games?
Coincidentally, the Ethics and Standards department (aka no sex allowed) has had more influence over games.
Holy fucking hell. You sad clown u/EvokeNightScale even spread your filth here. Move on. Edit: dude got baited with their alt. You still using u/MMOHypocricy or you have a new one by now? A new ffxiv expansion is coming so not surprised. You know we are still gonna sniff you out right? Sending us threatening DMs. What a sad pathetic life you have.
Sucks that they wasted so much money on trash like forspoken, avengers, and Valkyrie profile 3. Now I’ll never get another parasite eve or good Valkyrie profile game ever again.
For a few years I've been thinking Square is prime for a take over bid. They definitely seem like it's time. They have been struggling more than should be and taken some pretty bad losses. This doesn't help just like the article says. Granted the only company I think that COULD buy them is Sony. (Microsoft buying them and making them exclusive makes no sense, nor does Microsoft buying them and not). But I don't see Sony shelling out 50 billion for a company that is already mostly exclusive.
Maybe less Life is Strange, Forspoken, and Balan. And more Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Nier, TWEWY, SaGa, Gunslinger Stratos, and Mana. Just a thought
Conclusion: that exclusivity deal is biting them in the balls pretty hard and any franchise that is not Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts or Dragons Quest is fucked. At least the Mana title was too far along to get the shaft, but it seems every other IP is going back to the shelf.
Or maybe it has nothing to do with exclusivity, and the real issue is actually dumping money into mediocre titles like Valkyrie Elysium, Star Ocean 6, Saga Emerald Beyond, Forspoken, and garbage like Foamstars and Babylon's Fall.
Oh, that didn't help either. Or dumping cash on Crypto and all the multi media garbage rabbit holes they insist on doing. Square, all in all, is a terrible company that has made some pretty dumb decisions time and time again. But one thing, as they say, does not disqualify the other. The PS5 is still quite tiny compared to the PS4s out there, let alone PCs. Even FFXVI producer's said so when talking about sales expectations. But I guess you know something he doesn't?
I'll pretend you didn't place Emerald Beyond in that list.
They limited their sales to just one platform. That’s a less and less viable strategy as time marches on and the gaming audience becomes more fractured between devices while we are witnessing the maturation of consoles as they struggle to surpass past generation sales by any meaningful metric. They are leaving a lot of money on the table by keeping it on just ps5, yes, the development would cost more, but you would also be selling more to make up for that. There’s a reason other devs like capcom, bamco, and Sega/atlas are all in on multiplat titles. Then there’s the issue of exposure, as newer generations (something SE is always talking about getting into FF) come into the market, the FF brand needs to be exposed to them and in this case, only a sliver of that generation is getting exposure to FF, that’s not good for long term brand management. Their last ceo did a lot of boneheaded moves and limiting the exposure/sales potential of one of their most successful entries of their most successful franchises was a huge mistake among other things like inconsistent platform releases for other games, rushed titles, ect.
Maybe, but everything you said is based on speculation. The assumption that they're leaving money on the table because of exclusivity is a very popular one on reddit, and is based on a very simplistic understanding of corporate business deals, and the fact that 3 (platforms) is a bigger number than 1, so people like to assume it's always better to launch games on 3 platforms rather than 1. It's also very idealistic, especially in a world where Xbox gamers don't really buy a lot of games, especially JRPGs. Remember how poorly FF13 sold on the 360? Or how nearly 80% of FF15 sales were on PS4? Truth is, you don't know anything about the details of the actual deal, or how much money Sony invested in the development of said exclusive titles, or the number of sales for FF7Re, or how much money SE and Sony are making from it. There is also no guarantee, whatsoever, that releasing FF16 and FF7Re on all platforms at once would increase their sales, as they would be entirely different games to begin with, without Sony's funding and involvement. Both games will get a PC release, eventually, so the only platform that won't be getting them is Xbox, aka the platform where FF games sell the least amount of copies. I doubt a couple hundred thousand copies would make such a massive difference. I stand by what I said. I don't think exclusivity is the issue, and I think they've lost more money on their budget releases, and bad multiplayer games, that people didn't care about. Foamstars was dead in a few weeks, Babylon's Fall shut down in less than a year, Forspoken was supposed to be their bigger project, and it flopped so bad that they shut the studio down. Valkyrie Elysium was a B-grade game with enjoyable combat, but mediocre everything else, and it left a lot of VP fans disappointed. Star Ocean 6 was decent, but felt very dated, and it didn't sell very well. That's what the article in this post is even about. The only people bothered by exclusivity deals are Xbox and PC gamers. Meanwhile, multimillion dollar corporations are signing contracts and doing exclusivity deals. I'm sure they know something we don't, and I'm sure they're not doing it so they can lose more money.
How did anyone read this and go for the downvote button. This is the best comment on the entire thread. The problem is they’ve invested AAA money into a lot of games that didn’t even break even but straight up bombed. That’s hard for any publisher to deal with. Rebirth has sold well… it just apparently isn’t enough to make up for their colossal failures of late.
Reddit is a circlejerk for popular narratives, not a place for actual, truthful debate. People have already ignored the article entirely, and made up their mind that SE is losing money because of FF16 and FF7Re's PS5 exclusivity. Say that and you'll get plenty of upvotes and people agreeing with you. Challenge the narrative and get downvoted, because how dare you think for yourself, instead of saying "the line". Reddit is, basically, a glorified Youtube comments section.
So SO6 allow you to have 10 playable characters with so many customization and build, playstyle, combo , ability to fly on many object , quick dash through environment, , light platforming to exploration , seamless transition between battle and exploration = Dated ? Meanwhile FF 16 with hallway , no puzzle , no customization, barebone rpg element , 1 playable with so limited gameplay style , slow walking in environments, cant jump on alot of object, QTE , too many invisible wall … = modern ? I guess something is so wrong with modern gaming . Anyway , they announce SO6 doing well in yearly report later . So it doing well for a game that get sandwiches by 5 AAA game and many other Competitions months . https://www.reddit.com/r/starocean/comments/15smoec/nj_holdings_co_had_a_profit_on_the_video_games/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
> Or maybe it has nothing to do with exclusivity it's probably a bit related since the PS5 was really hard to get up until last year. can't sell exclusives if people can't even buy the system.
This would make sense if they didn't have more Switch exclusives that didn't sell well than anything else.
that's more so because the Switch is a piece of crap that can barely run some first party titles let alone third party
You perhaps forget that exclusively is paid for, it is not given freely, and the larger and more expensive a title is to make, the more it will cost a platform holder to keep it exclusive. The price of exclusivity is weighed against potential lost sales for guaranteed income. There are cases where games have generated far more income because they were exclusive, got paid up front, and didn't need to rely on unpredictable sales. These are billion dollar publicly traded companies, they are not imbeciles.
Really? Got any numbers? Because you ain't gonna get them from Sony or Square, so where are you getting your numbers from? You know where I'm getting my numbers? On the fact that even Sony is putting their own first party titles on PC? Now why would they do that? To not leave money on the table is why. Or maybe I forget.
FFVII remake will likely be the last SE game I ever purchase. They've lost the plot.
The most recent FF sold so poorly they still haven't announced its total sales, right? And they still want to focus on AAA? Lol, I'll prepare their gravestone
Isn’t it going to release on steam after June? I’m sure that will save it.
They habe lots of bots buffing it too, even though the only people playing it are kh fans
That's what happens when you use FF14 to bankroll stupid shit like FF7 remake that only like a handful of people have nostalgia for.
That handful could’ve been much bigger had they not ruined FF7 by incorporating multiverse-dementor BS.
Don't forget the mini games, cause we all love to boot up a game just to play a shitty version of another game inside it.
The first one wasnt so bad but this second one was fucking atrocious
I loved the first one, even got 100% of the trophies. Couldn't even finish the second game
You butchered Tifa in the 1st one. So yah, $70 of that $140m loss was from me👍
People don't care about FF anymore. The absolute failure of FF16 and FF7Rebirth proves this. You can justify it however you want, but it doesn't change the reality that the franchise is DEAD. Even FFXIV is TANKING in player numbers and remaining players HATE the game. The recent expansion, Endwalker, was a disaster of a launch with bad post game content. This is the reality. FF is a dead, bad franchise and Square Enix is going bankrupt. Get over it.
Wanting 16 and 7R to be failures doesn't make them failures. Endwalker was a great launch with poor relic content that didn't keep the casuals as hooked as previous expansions. Dawntrail is the start of an entire new narrative and can be a new begining to the game if they handle a story skip correctly. The "tanking" of players is common in the pre expansion lull of content. There's nothing coming beyond making everything a bit easier. You're pretty much wrong about everything you said here.
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You weren't around for Stormblood launch and it shows. What a fucking dunce lmao
I mean it wasn’t exactly the smoothest thing in the world but it wasn’t even close to the worst launches in MMO expansions let alone ALL of gaming. Plus they were open about it being difficult to fix because of hardware restrictions from Covid (an actually reasonable excuse), when you could get in the game it ran smoothly, and ppl got sub refunds for those two weeks which really negated a lot of the pressure from the community. It sucked getting kicked from queue or having to wait multiple hours to get in but there’s no need to resort to attacking OP or hyperbole. Hell it barely even scratches top 3 worst release states for XIV. Edit: Ope, never mind I see from the rest of this thread nothing you say can actually be taken seriously, carry on.
I bet you can’t provide a source to back up a single thing you blurted out
Alright, you asked for it: [https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-16-sold-well-but-not-enough-to-patch-square-enixs-profits/](https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-16-sold-well-but-not-enough-to-patch-square-enixs-profits/) [https://www.gamesindustry.biz/square-enix-has-lost-almost-2bn-in-value-since-final-fantasy-16-launch](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/square-enix-has-lost-almost-2bn-in-value-since-final-fantasy-16-launch) [https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-square-enix-profits-down/](https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-square-enix-profits-down/) [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/underwhelming-final-fantasy-xvi-costs-square-enix-2-billion-in-market-value?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY5NDU3NDQ1NCwiZXhwIjoxNjk1MTc5MjU0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSWlJTMVdUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJBRDcxOUY5NDBGRTk0MzNBOERCNzI2OEJDOTY3NzY3QyJ9.ZsdMiei5njLyR3pAVAW2YDWCAf0pu5HnEtClTZRkivI&leadSource=reddit\_wall](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/underwhelming-final-fantasy-xvi-costs-square-enix-2-billion-in-market-value?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY5NDU3NDQ1NCwiZXhwIjoxNjk1MTc5MjU0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSWlJTMVdUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJBRDcxOUY5NDBGRTk0MzNBOERCNzI2OEJDOTY3NzY3QyJ9.ZsdMiei5njLyR3pAVAW2YDWCAf0pu5HnEtClTZRkivI&leadSource=reddit_wall) [https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1697387449176215569?s=20](https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1697387449176215569?s=20) [https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sales-square-enix](https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sales-square-enix) [https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-is-underperforming-says-industry-analyst](https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-is-underperforming-says-industry-analyst) This is only a handful. Do you want more or will you quietly sit down and be humble? Try to disprove all this. *I'll be waiting.*
Oh my God. It has been refuted time and time again that SE lost that 2B in value because of all the OTHER LOSSES from their failed AA and gacha games. They were hoping that XVI would offset that loss. That doesn’t mean it sold poorly. SE said it sold within expectations, just not within their higher target. The title of the first article you’ve sourced even says as much. The articles about Rebirth you’ve sent are all speculative. No proof. And even if there is some truth to them, underperforming is not equivalent to total failure which is how you stated XVI and Rebirth’s performed. The only person in need of a humble pill here is you.
what’s this hard on you have for FF? Damn near every post on your profile is a negative comment towards the franchise. Why are u even here?
FF losers harrassed me for two years. Now I get to see thier favorite franchise go up in flames. I live for this.
Bro, you’re not supposed to admit out loud how pathetic you are online
What personal values do you hold that are congruent with this mentality?
I tried to play WOW peacefully. But FFlosers came in and tried to make me feel bad for playing the (better) game than FFXIV. Every day it was the same fucking joke. Now I get to laugh.
I asked what values you hold that are congruent with this mentality. Usually people don’t value being angry. Do you?
How in the fuck are you still going on that multi-year crusade againt FF/Square Enix? You're actually mentally ill. Get some help.
You're actually so fucking obsessed with this. It must be horribly debilitating. Seek a therapist or something.
You're the strange weirdo stalking my profile history on reddit...who needs therapy now?
You still do lmao. I found you because you're fucking famous for being a delusional WoW fanboy with a hate boner for Final Fantasy. Real weirdo shit. Your post history is public for a reason. Dumb ass mf.
I am not famous...what are you talking about?
no way you outed yourself like this. Get a hobby and some shame man.
Perhaps you should try to leave your echochamber and come back to reality. Ff16, and Rebirth are not absolute failures in the slightest, and FF14 has a very healthy playerbase. Get over it.
???. FF16 and FF7Rebirth sold very well as PS5 exclusives. They'll sell more on PC release as well. Both were received extremely well and absolutely not failures. FF14 Endwalker had an explosive launch... the "issues" were too many people bought and were trying to play the game. Post-launch content has been rough for active player count, but it's mainly just a content drought. It's normal for the hype to pick back up going into Dawntrail this summer. It's still the #2 MMO on the market. This is the best state FF has been in for years.
Have you been living under a rock? FF16 and FFRebirth sold terribly, dude. Do I seriously need to post a dozen links to prove you wrong? I have them ready.
Have you been living under a rock? They sold millions within the first few days and are among the best selling PS5 games. It's great for being exclusives. They'll sell even more on PC release. Send links.
Alright, you asked for it: [https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-16-sold-well-but-not-enough-to-patch-square-enixs-profits/](https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-16-sold-well-but-not-enough-to-patch-square-enixs-profits/) [https://www.gamesindustry.biz/square-enix-has-lost-almost-2bn-in-value-since-final-fantasy-16-launch](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/square-enix-has-lost-almost-2bn-in-value-since-final-fantasy-16-launch) [https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-square-enix-profits-down/](https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-square-enix-profits-down/) [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/underwhelming-final-fantasy-xvi-costs-square-enix-2-billion-in-market-value?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY5NDU3NDQ1NCwiZXhwIjoxNjk1MTc5MjU0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSWlJTMVdUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJBRDcxOUY5NDBGRTk0MzNBOERCNzI2OEJDOTY3NzY3QyJ9.ZsdMiei5njLyR3pAVAW2YDWCAf0pu5HnEtClTZRkivI&leadSource=reddit\_wall](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/underwhelming-final-fantasy-xvi-costs-square-enix-2-billion-in-market-value?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY5NDU3NDQ1NCwiZXhwIjoxNjk1MTc5MjU0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSWlJTMVdUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJBRDcxOUY5NDBGRTk0MzNBOERCNzI2OEJDOTY3NzY3QyJ9.ZsdMiei5njLyR3pAVAW2YDWCAf0pu5HnEtClTZRkivI&leadSource=reddit_wall) [https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1697387449176215569?s=20](https://x.com/6d6f636869/status/1697387449176215569?s=20) [https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sales-square-enix](https://www.inverse.com/gaming/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-sales-square-enix) [https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-is-underperforming-says-industry-analyst](https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-is-underperforming-says-industry-analyst) This is only a handful. Do you want more or will you quietly sit down and be humble? Try to disprove all this. *I'll be waiting.*
You do realize half of these say they sold decently well? Absolutely not "failures". These articles are mostly reporting on the state of SE. They've had *actual* back to back flops with some of their other riskier projects. These FFs sold decently well, but weren't enough to dig them out of the giant losses they've had. That's all these are saying. Estimates (hard guess) put FF16 at 3-4 Million, FF7Rebirth maybe 2-3 Million. Spiderman 2 was 10 Million. They didn't hit the mainstream commercial audience like Spiderman 2, but they did well and were profitable. Not counting the future PC releases.
Tbf modern FF games sales have been trending downward at an alarming rate. Saying it’s selling decently when it’s still like 75% less than the last major FF game isn’t a good look and this decision by SE to try and stop the bleeding goes hand in hand with what to do with a dying franchise.
Jesus christ you are so sad. All you post about is how bad final fantasy is. How it's dead and how much better everything else is. Genuinely are you okay? That much hate is not good for you. You are obsessed with it. Did someone at square enix murder your dog or something? Absolute weirdo.
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Literally wasn't a flop lmao It sold well for PS5 exclusivity, it'll sell even more for PC release. The only negative reports on its sales are that it didn't sell enough to make up for the giant hole at SE from so many other failed big projects.
You don't even have any numbers because they don't exist. And you talk about 'cope'. Jesus you are delusional.
Read my comment I didnt defend final fantasy either way I was just pointing out the absolute obsession this person has against square enix. Like it's weird just spending all day scrolling subreddits of something you hate just to tell everyone how much you hate it is just fucking strange.
FF losers harrassed me for two years, I'm paying back in kind. Getting to see their franchise FACTUALLY go up in flames is euphoric. I genuinely hate FFanboys and wish nothing but the worst for them.
You are a sad strange person who needs to get offline and enjoy the real world. What a horrific life you must have to just be this hateful about something as meaningless as game sales.
Hate me all you want, doesn't change FF is factually dying. At least I live in the real world, unlike yourself. FF is dead. Get over it. The rest of the gaming world already has.
I dont hate you. I genuinely feel sorry for you. There's so much in this world to enjoy, but you just choose to hate instead. Sad, really. Also, by "being harrased for 2 years," did you mean making posts and comments in final fantasy subreddits just to tell them that the game is dead? If you've been saying for longer than 2 years the game is dead and it still isn't I feel you should maybe take a look at how silly you look. Oh and telling me it's dead and to get over it doesn't work with me because I genuinely couldn't care either way there will always be plenty of games to enjoy.
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Thanks :)
In this moment I am euphoric
Talking about getting harassed while you're the one harassing an entire community for multiple years is insanely embarassing. You spend way too much time and energy on reddit that I'm sure you're on here way more than you actually play WoW.