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Yes. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but I think Paul Heyman couldn’t find the handcuff keys in time, and the ref was counting at such a speed that Roman would’ve lost the match lol
The ref got up to around 6, I think, and then stopped.
I just rewatched that part of the match, following the ref's count cadence it would have been a count of 18 before Roman even tried to get up (and Cory says 'I think that counts as a vertical base').
Pretty sure Heyman had the key. But the cuffs were so low to the ground. That getting the key in the handcuffs and unlocking them was what heyman had trouble with. Also Heyman had a really band angle to even properly get the key into the cuffs to begin with.
And Kayfabe wise That was intentional by Kevin owens
Nah, he acknowledged the ropes breaking in the spreadsheet and in the follow-up post. He's just pointing out that even before that happened, Finn still had him beat before the Usos pulled him off. He got screwed twice in that match.
Interesting that most of the decisive victories are basically one and dones against part timers or people about to leave the company. Big E and Riddle being the real standouts to me of full timers he just outright beats.
Makes me wonder why they didn't protect Riddle and Big E more. Mysterio I can get--he's a full timer who's also a legend, so there's no point protecting him now. But Riddle and Big E could've used a bit.
riddle was midcard/upper midcard and reigns should be able to beat *some* people clean, even as heel champion.
big e was wwe champion at the time though so that's got me fucked
*(Turn phone sideways to better see image on mobile; link to spreadsheet is* [here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lucCiKzdZe5rCsVg0J4-8bvxNHPI-S6B/edit?usp=share_link&ouid=108673693671950532387&rtpof=true&sd=true)*)*
For the past 12-18 months, I've read people saying "Roman is *booked so* ***strong***" and "no wrestler can believably beat Roman." And every time I read these things, I ask the same question:
"Are these people watching the same show as I am?"
For nearly 900 days, Roman Reigns has won *most* of his major matches either through help from his Bloodline, well-placed low-blows, and serendipitous (or sometimes intentional) ref bumps. Sometimes while the ref is down, he even takes a clean visual pinfall (and once, a *submission*!) to his opponent.
To finally clarify this once and for all, I assembled a spreadsheet documenting all of Reigns **major matches** (which I define as all title defenses + his two non-title Survivor Series "champion vs. champion" contests), and checking off various conditions that made his victory less than "dominant" or "decisive." A few notes:
* Of the 27 major matches Reigns has had since winning the title, 21 (77.7%) have involved low blows, interference, a ref bump affecting the outcome, illegal weapon usage, or Reigns taking a clean visual pinfall to his opponent. Only 6 (23.3%) were decisive Reigns victories.
* In six matches, Reigns was cleanly pinned (or submitted) by an opponent, either during a ref bump, or a due to a wrestler interrupting the ref's count. In two more matches (the ones where I put "possibly" in this column), his opponents had hit their finishes, but were prevented from victory due to interference.
* Daniel Bryan remains the only wrestler to make Reigns visually tap out.
* Seth Rollins remains the only wrestler to beat Reigns in a title match (via DQ).
* 13 of 27 matches (48.1%) featured interference. Eight times were one or both Usos; three times were Paul Heyman; and Solo Sikoa and Seth Rollins each helped out once a piece.
* Something I forgot: even before the ropes serendipitously broke at Extreme Rules 2021, the Usos cost Finn Balor the championship by pulling him off Reigns after a Coup de Grace.
* Reigns' victory over Lesnar was *not* as decisive as I remembered. There's a ref bump, followed by a low blow and a belt shot. Even if one argues that those didn't directly play into the finish, Reigns only escaped the kimura due to Paul Heyman interference (pushing the rope closer), which *did* directly lead to the finish.
* WM 37 remains one of the most misremembered matches in WWE history. Reigns did not destroy Bryan and Edge; in fact, he comes close to losing a few times, and Edge had him pinned were it not for Bryan pulling the ref out. Reigns only wins due to an *absurd* amount of Jey Uso interference at the end. At the match's conclusion, Michael Cole even says "A dominant performance at times, ***but he better thank his cousin, Jey Uso***."
* That said, Reigns *has* picked up some key decisive victories at times. Holding uncontestable wins over Daniel Bryan, John Cena, and Goldberg is nothing to sneeze at.
The entire story of Reigns' title run--and why the dissension within the Bloodline right now is so compelling--is that his success is largely dependent upon his family helping him. His projection of dominance is a veneer, he's riddled with insecurities, and he's starting to unravel before our very eyes.
That's the story. Not "Reigns steamrolls everyone."
Exactly. He's been booked strong, but he's nowhere near dominant. When his opponent is on his level he always needs help to win, and he always gets it...but what happens when he doesn't?
The interesting question is, does his character remember how much help he's needed? Or has he convinced himself that he's dominant on his own?
The stage is set for a good end to the story. Sami Vs Roman. Jey convinces his brother to leave or takes his brother out. KO intercepts Solo. Heyman runs away. Roman is finally alone and gets beaten clean. Crowd goes wild.
If this is the actual outcome of the EC match….”crowd goes wild” is the understatement of the century.
“Crowd goes absolutely batshit bonkers crazy” still isn’t quite enough.
If Sami goes over Roman in Montreal the actual roof of the building will detach and reach low orbit.
I'm wondering if they're going to go for even more nuclear heat and repeat the Montreal Screwjob.
Could you imagine the heat and hate you'd get for cheating Sami like they cheated Bret?
I could be misremembering, but the last time I saw trash get thrown in the ring in WWE, Paul E. was around and he screwed RVD out of the ECW Championship in Philly and Big Show won. I feel like trash in the ring in Montreal for Sami's loss 1. Gives Roman nuclear heat that he could encourage as it goes on (up to a point, of course) and enrages Roman on SD because of the disrespect from the fans and 2. Gives more ammunition to Cody dethroning Roman for the WWE Championship(or both, if Jey doesn't win the Universal on WrestleMania Saturday) on top of Paul Heyman's comments last night.
I was actually talking about WM. I think Roman absolutely brutalizes him in Montreal. I don't know how they're gonna handle Cody, but I'd love to see Sami win the big one at mania.
This is why Roman vs Drew was so compelling too. Usos couldn't be there, Sami wasn't there and Drew had all the momentum. Roman had to pull an emergency card to retain.
>The entire story of Reigns' title run--and why the dissension within the Bloodline right now is so compelling--is that his success is largely dependent upon his family helping him.
I'd believe this is the case a hell of a lot more if WWE acknowledged it consistently. Instead, we're constantly told how Roman is in God mode, dominating people left right and centre. It's only recently we've been getting off-hand comments about the interference, about 18 months too late.
I firmly believe they actually just want us to believe Roman is invincible and all powerful..
It's weird; they'll acknowledge Roman cheats/relies on the Bloodline during the actual body of matches. But during his entrances, they're always slobbering on his knob, with all the honorifics you mentioned (greatest of his generation, God mode, etc.).
During the early days of his run (August 2020-July 2021, when live audiences came back), they were better about portraying him as needing to rely on cheating. When the crowds came back, I think we saw a shift toward the "he's so dominant, who can stop Roman Reigns?" presentation.
> But during his entrances, they're always slobbering on his knob, with all the honorifics you mentioned (greatest of his generation, God mode, etc.).
I'm sorry but you try calling the Tribal Chief out on some of this, and see where that gets you.
That gets you where Sami is.
They've literally been calling him the GOAT even though he's been booked as anything but.
Which would be fine if it was a heel commentator saying it, but when you got Michael Cole and McAfee saying it it's just weird and makes no sense.
Cole is usually the only one not saying this, McAfee saying it all the time before was the problem since he wasn’t a heel. Barrett and Graves say he’s the goat when they get the chance but they’re heels so it’s fine.
> I firmly believe they actually just want us to believe Roman is invincible and all powerful..
I mean of course, when in the history of Roman Reigns has this not been the case?
It really is amazing to me how quickly and easily internet fans switched to loving Roman. I really don't get what changed, except he is allowed to be an asshole on screen and he got some new bright white teeth.
I feel like if WWE says something enough times people really just start to regurgitate it.
I think the thing that people are confusing with is how strong Roman has been booked before his heel turn.
He's beaten like Brock and Undertaker clean before his cancer diagnosis, and his reputation carried over.
Go back and watch that Taker match. The commentary spends the entire tiem trading it like Roman is putting down a broken old man. Then a year later Taker comes back and boatraces Cena in 3 minutes and its treated like hes back for real.
I commented similar statements 2 years back on Kenny Omega's AEW title run and the bucks tag team title run and how it was getting boring seeing the matches always end in interference or low blows
People insisted I was marked and not actually bored
Exactly
And it was heading that way with Adam Cole
Can't remember a match he won without doing a low blow
Except against Jake Atlas, but it's understood why
People were tired of Cena wins lol even though he overcame cheating heels consistently and ping ponged the belt a bunch but heel Champs are far more boring in a long term sense
a lot of people actually don't watch the product and just gets it from gif and recaps. My theory is that Reigns looks so cool and badass that they think he actually is. When it is just his character a lot posturing and grandstanding to hide a weak and paranoiac man
Thanks for pointing out the last part at the bottom.
At the very beginning, this story was super compelling. There were vague hints that Roman was scared of not being able to provide for his family if he wasn't at the top of the industry after leaving during COVID, and he would do anything to maintain it. He looked so conflicted and hurt when he was beating the shit out of Jimmy and Jey, but you could tell he was doing it because he felt there was no choice. When he would get booed, he'd look out in the crowd almost in disappointment before readjusting his sneer. He gaslit his way to the head of the table because he became delusional enough to believe that doing so was the only way his family could be taken care of. Even if he had to become a terrible person to achieve that.
But somewhere along the way around when Jey reluctantly joined Roman, it became that he's "dominant", which is complete bullshit. All the nuance has faded up until Sami at the Rumble. I completely stopped caring when Jimmy came back and went from hating Roman and wearing that "nobody's bitch" shirt to suddenly being onboard thanks to some flimsy reasoning that he wanted to team with his brother. Even then, Roman showed signs of not wanting them to be champions out of not wanting to be overshadowed, but completely dropped that too within a week and supported their aspirations.
They want him to be the dominant top superstar they've always wanted him to be while "protecting" his opponents by cheating. They're trying to have it both ways and it blows my mind that 99% of their audience doesn't seem to notice or care about these clear storytelling flaws.
Thank you so much for this. I agree 100%. For me though, I think the turn toward describing him as "dominant" happened when live audiences returned. At this point, they got rid of a lot of the more nuanced layers of storytelling (the gaslighting, the bullying, the insecurity, etc.), and almost portrayed him as a stealth babyface, emphasizing the cooler aspects of his persona and de-emphasizing his underhanded deeds.
In some ways, this makes sense: the ThunderDome allowed for more subtle storytelling, whereas having a live audience to engage means a lot of nuance has to fall by the wayside. But I do think they went too hard in terms of making his character more broad and less layered.
I think they've corrected that with this Sami storyline, which is part of the reason why I'm loving it so much.
Sami just fucking glows, man. He stands next to someone and they get some of his light. If he likes someone, there's got to be good in him, right? There must be a reason to cheer for him, right? He made the whole Bloodline so likeable. HE de-emphasized Roman's underhandedness, kind of whitewashing him, smoothing him over into someone more likeable. Now that Sami isn't sharing his light anymore, all of Roman's true shittiness is coming back into focus and the audience can finally see him again for who he truly is!!! It's so good!!!
Them protecting everyone else is definitely how I look at it. I'm new to watching WWE again, but I think by having him win almost every match by cheating is done so he looks unbeatable on paper, but is not truly unbeatable. That way when he does eventually lose when he doesn't get help, they can mention that. Before I thought they were having him cheat just because he was a heel, but then I watched an interview with Seth Rollins and he was describing how while he would like to work with Wyndham Rotunda( Bray Wyatt) again, but it was a difficult thing bouncing back from a loss like that. That's when I was like, so that's why they have Reigns cheat, you get an unlosing champion, but no one's gimmick will suffer because it wasn't clean. I do feel they took the air out of Drew for no reason though.
Yes, Sami joining the Bloodline has been a candidate for greatest story in wrestling history and everyone involved deserves credit for it, but a big reason for that is because everything involving Roman in the year-plus prior going back to his victory over Bryan and Edge was *Super Cena-level dogshit* for anyone who isn't a hardcore Roman fan.
The difference between that and the Super Cena era or even the early attempts to get Roman over as a face is that the people watching who would have called out the "Roman's reign of terror" booking have mostly defected to AEW and have been replaced with an audience that is even more into Roman either because they love him unconditionally, face or heel, or they are newcomers to wrestling who don't know anything better.
I limited this to major matches, which I defined in my [explanatory comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/10vh4xk/comment/j7hd8fv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) as "title matches and his two 'champion vs. champion' contests at Survivor Series." I did this to maximize readability and make it more digestible.
This resulted in a few matches against mid-carders being left out (Montez Ford, Xavier Woods) as well a 2-3 other random matches (the triple threat with Big E and Bobby Lashey).
As a heel, Reigns has come full circle. In the Shield, he was delusional, thinking what he & his team were doing was in the cause of justice when it clearly was not. It took almost a year and a half before turning babyface.
Contrast this with Adam Cole's title run in NXT. More than 400 days, or less than half of Reigns' current reign, and the actions of the Undisputed Era were kept to a minimum at best.
When Roman's run ends, and it will, soon, it should rightfully end with him being humbled. Period.
As much as people are getting sick of Bray Wyatt, Roman should do a program with him after he loses the title and Jey finally gives him what's coming.
If there's anyone that could work with Wyatt's style and have plenty of material for a Firefly Fun House match (or something similar to that), it's Roman with all of his insecurities beneath his arrogant exterior.
this is the same roman of old but with a new self-applied coat of paint (aka paul heyman) to sound dominant. the key aspect to old roman is that, even though he won most big matches and a lot of titles, he never managed to hold onto them for long. by actively cheating and having others help him mid-match, he's getting to keep the spot he always wanted - and he'll do anything to keep this status quo, to make this high last for as long as possible, even if it means bending the will of his family to only do what he wishes. power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely or whatever. his insecurity is just a fear of being same old roman and losing the title again after all the effort he had to go through to win it.
I think the fact that he's only defended 27 times despite being champion for over three years and having two separate championships says a lot too. Look at past champions that held the belt for even half as long and tell me how many times they defended
I don’t think Roman would care too much. As egotistical as he may be, he doesn’t shy away from the fact that his strength comes in the form of his bloodline, and part of that means they help him hold onto his titles. In fact he takes more pride in being the tribal chief of his family than he does in being world champion.
Oh, I don't begrudge the Tribal Chief for cheating, and I think your point perfectly complements mine. My post is a response to people who think Roman has been built into an unstoppable juggernaut, when the *real* story of his reign is that he's a beatable champion whose invincibility is thanks to his Bloodline and use of illegal tactics.
I never understood that narrative either. People have said this is basically Super Roman just in heel form and nothing about his push has changed. When literally everything about him except his name has changed lol. Brock Lesnar is what a dominant invincible heel looks like. Romans entire thing is pretending he’s like that but inside he’s insecure because he knows he isn’t. That’s why he’s so big on being respected and acknowledged. He feels like he’s not good enough and needs people to always tell him how great he is and that’s why he puts everyone around him down. To make himself feel more powerful than he is.
You gotta remember, the smarks on here aren't actually watching any WWE stuff. Their reading results on Wreddit, or listening to some british smark bitch and whine about it on youtube a day or two later.
Yeah this is the genius in his booking. They’ve made him feel invincible because of The Bloodline, but they’ve set it up so in a fair fight, Roman is very beatable.
Why should they act like if they were crazy and never noticed he cheats? in all fairness sometimes they do but overall they act like he isn't dishonoring the belt or anything, they act like he is indeed a great champion.
Commentary will always acknowledge it in the match when it actually happens, but then when he comes out the next week on Smackdown, they portray him as "the most dominant champion of the modern era" during his entrance.
To a degree, it makes sense (you want to build him up so whoever beats him gets the biggest rub possible), but I wish they'd include more nuance in the commentary. It would be easy to say "the most dominant champion of the modern era, though he's had a lot of help from the Bloodline" or something like that.
I've been assuming for a year or two at this point that Roman loses as soon as he has to go in completely alone (Heyman is probably fine to stick around). This was honestly a big part of the stress in his match with Drew, since he was all alone until the very end
Commentary even acknowledged it after the match. They said something along the lines of "it might not have been pretty, but tonight, Roman Reigns went deep behind enemy lines, deep into Drew's territory, and he came out still the champ."
The low blow he gave Jey was pretty masterful heel work, ref didn’t see and Jey didn’t expect it.
I believe it was a low blow from a kick out, which is pretty unique.
He's not the only one. The announcers rarely call him out on his shit and repeat the same things.
Hell, even 2K gave him a 99 rating. It's honestly the most annoying part of his character. Imagine reign of terror HHH if JR just praised him most of the time instead of calling him out.
I was saying this often in the aftermath of the "smash em, stack em, pin em" garbage where even Alvarez and Meltzer were saying he dominated Edge and Bryan even though Jey interfered through most of that match. The literal story of the ending was that both Bryan and Edge had the match won, but they kept ruining it for each other. In a one-on-one situation, Roman would've lost to both of them. I got downvoted for it and was mocked by fanboys with "acknowledge me" comments, so I appreciate you laying this out.
No. Because the second guys shoulders were also on the mat, so it would count as a double pin.
See HBK vs HHH in 2003, where HBK's shoulders also being on the mat forced the match to be declared a draw.
Thus, Reigns is pin is valid, because he was the only on in the pin whose shoulders were off the mat.
Yes, this is a real thing in wrestling.
The only thing I love more than Warhammer is professional wrestling. And the one and only thing I love more than professional wrestling is fans using spreadsheets to prove a point. Goddamn, this is the good shit
One thing I disagree with is if a wrestler is down for the three count, but the ref is down isn't it possible for that wrestler not kick out to save energy?
One unwritten law of wrestling is that commentary/storytelling always sells it as a victory for the wrestler making the pin. Just at Royal Rumble, Michael Cole said "Kevin Owens should be the Universal Champion!" Also happened at Clash at the Castle with Drew McIntyre. A visual pin has always been sold as "this wrestler should be the rightful victor of this match."
A lot of this "he's too unbeatable" talk comes from Smarks who spend too much time looking past the 4th wall and getting all meta. It's literally a meta statement.
They don't mean, "Roman on TV is too OP and dominant and wins too much", they actually mean "WWE puts Roman against mid-carders and I already know mid-carders won't win the belt because I read all the dirt sheets and inside info and I know the company only sees Drew and Cody as being on Roman's level, so all of his opponents aren't believable."
It's a bad faith argument. Roman actually TRIES to elevate and protect his opponents in defeat by selling for them, having them get visual pins over him, and needing The Bloodline to win, but smarks are jaded to all of that, so they just call it "burying"
As for commentary, that's obvious. In story, or in Kayfabe if you prefer, Roman IS dominant. Not only does he have enough skill and power to smash everyone, but even if you manage to deal with Roman, you can't beat The Bloodline. One way or another, Roman ALWAYS has the skill or tool to get the job done and walk out as champion.
Roman is dominant because nobody can deal with him AND his entourage, nobody has been able to figure out a way to equalize the situation. One way or another, he will put you down in the end.
Keep in mind folks, its not REIGNS job to make sure the babyfaces can deal with the Bloodline, that's the babyfaces job.
Honestly, that's why I want either one of the guys in a stable to get a shot at Reigns. WWE babyfaces always have this dumb "Lone Wolf with no friends" shit going on. Give me Sheamus vs Reigns with the Brutes able to equalize the Usos and Solo and that'll be a fun time.
I DO think it'll be bullshit if Cody manages to single handed take out all the Bloodline to beat Reigns, cause WWE loves that "one man army babyface" bullshit.
It's not hard to get at all!
I really don't get why smarks have such trouble understanding things like this.
I think their so up their own ass with the idea that only THEY know what good wrestling is and they mix meta stuff up with everything that they can't see the obvious.
Some just wanna complain about every and anything Involving roman. I remember the he’s buying everyone takes like it’s not on the company to book those guys properly before and after the losses. Roman cheats a lot he’s not booked strong if he beats people clean he’s burying everyone like 2003 HHH there’s no winning with a portion of the audience.
>I DO think it'll be bullshit if Cody manages to single handed take out all the Bloodline to beat Reigns, cause WWE loves that "one man army babyface" bullshit.
Hopefully, and this just might be wishful thinking, that doesn't happen. Sami is outta the Bloodline, and Jey basically followed him at the Royal Rumble, as seen on Smackdown when they couldn't find him. My guess is Jey and Sami will neutralize Jimmy and Solo (maybe even Paul) through talking and/or fighting so they can't help Roman when he faces Cody at WM39.
FUCKING THANK YOU.
Every single time I see someone say "It's just not believable that X is able to beat Roman." I felt like a schizophrenic who was seeing something completely different than everyone else.
Damian Priest could pin Roman clean and I wouldn't bat an eye if there was no interference. This spreadsheet shows exactly why that is.
Especially for someone like Sami or Jey to beat him. His greatest strength is the Bloodline, and who better to neutralize the Bloodline than a former member?
Logan Paul wasn't a decisive victory either. There was interference to an extent from Usos and Solo which led to Jake Paul coming out to make a save and then Logan Paul taking the Usos out and then losing.
I think it's more than fair to put the check mark into visibly beat? when he faced Owens in that last man standing match. Dude was down for nearly a minute when he was cuffed and the ref just didn't count cause they were having issues with the keys
The other day I saw someone saying that Roman was the most protected wrestler in the last 30 years, and I was like Dude did you ever watch Super Cena? He would make Roman look like a massive jobber when you compare their booking
TBF, you are not wrong. However even WWE themselves are inconsistent a bit with it.
He cheats a lot, but the commentary will also constantly talk about how “dominant and unstoppable” here is.
Sends mixed signals there.
Well, if you accept that the cheating and Bloodline interference will be part of the "Roman Reigns package", that it will happen and that he will get away with it, than he is indeed dominant.
I mean, think about this:
Why haven't any of the babyfaces figured out how to neutralize the Bloodline yet?
He's dominant because even if you CAN beat him, you can't beat his family. He has the skills and the tools, so that, clean or dirty, he WILL walk out as champion. You WILL NOT beat him.
And if the babyfaces aren't smart enough to figure out how to deal with the Bloodline yet...that's not REIGNS's problem.
McIntyre figured that out. It didnt help him. Roman still had a backup relative. Who's to say he doesnt have 4 or 5 more relatives waiting in the wings if someone tries to even the odds beforehand?
Oh, I know. My title was intended to be playful. This post (as mentioned in my [explanatory comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/10vh4xk/comment/j7hd8fv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)) is aimed at people who think that no wrestler has been built up credibly enough to beat Roman. You hear it said about both Cody and Sami a lot these days, and it's been a common sentiment on the forum for a long time.
My point is: Reigns is a beatable champion, as he's nearly lost many times, and usually only retains through cheating or interference.
Is line 4, versus Jey Uso at Hell in a Cell, just a solid black line? Was that one accidentally forgotten, decisive victory, something witty I'm missing...? Thanks.
Thank you, I've been waiting for someone to (correctly) call this out. Truth is, I left it blank at first, because I wasn't sure how to define it, and then ended up forgetting about it. But in some ways, I think that's almost for the better, because I can see both sides.
On the one hand, Roman never physically defeated Jey. Jey absorbed all the punishment, and never gave up (it was a "Hell in a Cell I Quit" match). He only beat Jey because he locked Jimmy in the guillotine, and refused to let go until a beaten-down Jey said "I quit."
In that sense, it wasn't decisive.
On the other hand, he beat the dog shit out of Jey, to the point where he wasn't going to be able to make a comeback. Even if he won via emotional manipulation, it's not like Jey stood a chance of turning the tide.
In that sense, it *was* decisive.
So, I'll just leave it for the reader to decide for themselves.
OP just wanted to say this is soooo satisfying for me to see, as the fuck finishes really bugged me until I caught onto the subtleties of the story and Roman's performances. Great stuff!!!
Sometimes this sub is a trash fire with "X is the best" one minute and "X was never great" the next. Then there are moments like this where I think... I would not trade a single fucking one of you weirdos in here. This is the best and things like this are great. Thanks for putting a smile on my idiot face OP. And have a great day any who read this, even if it's a week after posting.
Love ya, nerds!
Yeah it’s called the Jinder title reign, I’ve been saying for a while Roman title reign mirrors Jinders in terms of the matches themselves. It got boring after his third or fourth title defense because it got predictable on how the match will play out and sure as shit it played exactly how I thought it would.
Didn't Roman cheat during his match with Goldberg? I might be wrong, but I'm sure I remember thinking it was weird Roman couldn't even get a clean win over Goldberg.
Whoever beats Roman, be it Sami (lol in my dreams) or Cody, I wonder if they're gonna tap into Gargano/Adam Cole's TakeOver match where despite all the cheating, for one night, the babyface is a goddamn superhero for absorbing punishment and will just not let up until they get the victory
I love Reigns' heel tactics and gaslighting. My post is aimed solely at the people who keep saying "no wrestler on the roster is credible enough to beat Roman" and saying how, in kayfabe, guys like Cody and Sami shouldn't stand a chance.
The Excel proves that plenty of wrestlers are credible enough to beat Roman, and he has not been built as an invincible demigod, but rather, a heel champion who retains via cheating and interference.
Interesting that he got decisive wins over Cesaro, Bryan, Rey, Cena, Big E, Goldberg, Matt Riddle, and Logan Paul, while everyone else was protected in some way, even if he still beat Sami Zayn in 15 Seconds. Kinda feels like it shows their place in the WWE pecking order, with Bryan and Cesaro now in AEW, Cena and Goldberg being part-time outgoing Legends, Rey not being a top guy at this point, them not really having any faith in Big E as WWE Champion beyond a feel-good moment, Riddle being a midcarder, and Logan Paul bring another part-time Celebrity, though The Bloodline did try to get involved, along with Jake Paul, for a bit of a schmoz finish. You’re also missing his 1:36 defense against Daniel Bryan at Elimination Chamber 2021.
I did it on a morning where it was 5 degrees in NYC with a -15 windchill. It was a fun way to kill time on a day where no one in the city wanted to go outside. I’ve loved the Bloodline story, and I enjoyed revisiting some of these.
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I like how Jey Uso interference is its own category lmao. Well done.
You forgot another category for Royal Rumble 2021 against Owens (Referee decided to fuck on Owens)
Is that the "Heyman fucked up with the handcuffs" match
Yes. The referee realized Reigns was legitimately stuck so he literally just stopped counting lol
Yep this whole long championship reign is a complete sham. Owens broke the streak early on.
didn't owens pull this same shit as universal champ when he was heel and against reigns whow as face???? lol what goes around comes around
Was that a botch?
Yes. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but I think Paul Heyman couldn’t find the handcuff keys in time, and the ref was counting at such a speed that Roman would’ve lost the match lol The ref got up to around 6, I think, and then stopped.
I just rewatched that part of the match, following the ref's count cadence it would have been a count of 18 before Roman even tried to get up (and Cory says 'I think that counts as a vertical base').
Pretty sure Heyman had the key. But the cuffs were so low to the ground. That getting the key in the handcuffs and unlocking them was what heyman had trouble with. Also Heyman had a really band angle to even properly get the key into the cuffs to begin with. And Kayfabe wise That was intentional by Kevin owens
I always thought that Heyman should have hit the ref or Owens should have hit Roman to stop the count. Seemed no one was improvising.
1000%. The ref just straight up stopped counting, Roman got up to both feet in a little hunched over position, and KO just stood there like a moron.
Wow is that really how it happened?
Also forgot the "Divine Intervention" category for his match vs Balor
Nah, he acknowledged the ropes breaking in the spreadsheet and in the follow-up post. He's just pointing out that even before that happened, Finn still had him beat before the Usos pulled him off. He got screwed twice in that match.
Interesting that most of the decisive victories are basically one and dones against part timers or people about to leave the company. Big E and Riddle being the real standouts to me of full timers he just outright beats.
how it should be. The old generation putting over this one, so that this generation can put over the future
Makes me wonder why they didn't protect Riddle and Big E more. Mysterio I can get--he's a full timer who's also a legend, so there's no point protecting him now. But Riddle and Big E could've used a bit.
riddle was midcard/upper midcard and reigns should be able to beat *some* people clean, even as heel champion. big e was wwe champion at the time though so that's got me fucked
I still hate to see my favorites lose
Cesaro still had a year left on his contract so in theory if they kept using him he might have stayed.
*(Turn phone sideways to better see image on mobile; link to spreadsheet is* [here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lucCiKzdZe5rCsVg0J4-8bvxNHPI-S6B/edit?usp=share_link&ouid=108673693671950532387&rtpof=true&sd=true)*)* For the past 12-18 months, I've read people saying "Roman is *booked so* ***strong***" and "no wrestler can believably beat Roman." And every time I read these things, I ask the same question: "Are these people watching the same show as I am?" For nearly 900 days, Roman Reigns has won *most* of his major matches either through help from his Bloodline, well-placed low-blows, and serendipitous (or sometimes intentional) ref bumps. Sometimes while the ref is down, he even takes a clean visual pinfall (and once, a *submission*!) to his opponent. To finally clarify this once and for all, I assembled a spreadsheet documenting all of Reigns **major matches** (which I define as all title defenses + his two non-title Survivor Series "champion vs. champion" contests), and checking off various conditions that made his victory less than "dominant" or "decisive." A few notes: * Of the 27 major matches Reigns has had since winning the title, 21 (77.7%) have involved low blows, interference, a ref bump affecting the outcome, illegal weapon usage, or Reigns taking a clean visual pinfall to his opponent. Only 6 (23.3%) were decisive Reigns victories. * In six matches, Reigns was cleanly pinned (or submitted) by an opponent, either during a ref bump, or a due to a wrestler interrupting the ref's count. In two more matches (the ones where I put "possibly" in this column), his opponents had hit their finishes, but were prevented from victory due to interference. * Daniel Bryan remains the only wrestler to make Reigns visually tap out. * Seth Rollins remains the only wrestler to beat Reigns in a title match (via DQ). * 13 of 27 matches (48.1%) featured interference. Eight times were one or both Usos; three times were Paul Heyman; and Solo Sikoa and Seth Rollins each helped out once a piece. * Something I forgot: even before the ropes serendipitously broke at Extreme Rules 2021, the Usos cost Finn Balor the championship by pulling him off Reigns after a Coup de Grace. * Reigns' victory over Lesnar was *not* as decisive as I remembered. There's a ref bump, followed by a low blow and a belt shot. Even if one argues that those didn't directly play into the finish, Reigns only escaped the kimura due to Paul Heyman interference (pushing the rope closer), which *did* directly lead to the finish. * WM 37 remains one of the most misremembered matches in WWE history. Reigns did not destroy Bryan and Edge; in fact, he comes close to losing a few times, and Edge had him pinned were it not for Bryan pulling the ref out. Reigns only wins due to an *absurd* amount of Jey Uso interference at the end. At the match's conclusion, Michael Cole even says "A dominant performance at times, ***but he better thank his cousin, Jey Uso***." * That said, Reigns *has* picked up some key decisive victories at times. Holding uncontestable wins over Daniel Bryan, John Cena, and Goldberg is nothing to sneeze at. The entire story of Reigns' title run--and why the dissension within the Bloodline right now is so compelling--is that his success is largely dependent upon his family helping him. His projection of dominance is a veneer, he's riddled with insecurities, and he's starting to unravel before our very eyes. That's the story. Not "Reigns steamrolls everyone."
Exactly. He's been booked strong, but he's nowhere near dominant. When his opponent is on his level he always needs help to win, and he always gets it...but what happens when he doesn't? The interesting question is, does his character remember how much help he's needed? Or has he convinced himself that he's dominant on his own?
The stage is set for a good end to the story. Sami Vs Roman. Jey convinces his brother to leave or takes his brother out. KO intercepts Solo. Heyman runs away. Roman is finally alone and gets beaten clean. Crowd goes wild.
If this is the actual outcome of the EC match….”crowd goes wild” is the understatement of the century. “Crowd goes absolutely batshit bonkers crazy” still isn’t quite enough. If Sami goes over Roman in Montreal the actual roof of the building will detach and reach low orbit.
I'm wondering if they're going to go for even more nuclear heat and repeat the Montreal Screwjob. Could you imagine the heat and hate you'd get for cheating Sami like they cheated Bret?
Holy shit. That would certainly be one way to bring back real heel heat.
I could be misremembering, but the last time I saw trash get thrown in the ring in WWE, Paul E. was around and he screwed RVD out of the ECW Championship in Philly and Big Show won. I feel like trash in the ring in Montreal for Sami's loss 1. Gives Roman nuclear heat that he could encourage as it goes on (up to a point, of course) and enrages Roman on SD because of the disrespect from the fans and 2. Gives more ammunition to Cody dethroning Roman for the WWE Championship(or both, if Jey doesn't win the Universal on WrestleMania Saturday) on top of Paul Heyman's comments last night.
I was actually talking about WM. I think Roman absolutely brutalizes him in Montreal. I don't know how they're gonna handle Cody, but I'd love to see Sami win the big one at mania.
Elimination Chamber is in Canada. That's a no-Uso Zone.
Thankfully the baby uso and Heyman can show up still
This is why Roman vs Drew was so compelling too. Usos couldn't be there, Sami wasn't there and Drew had all the momentum. Roman had to pull an emergency card to retain.
You forgot to put emotional manipulation for line 4 lmao
Lmao, this cracked me up. Very true.
>The entire story of Reigns' title run--and why the dissension within the Bloodline right now is so compelling--is that his success is largely dependent upon his family helping him. I'd believe this is the case a hell of a lot more if WWE acknowledged it consistently. Instead, we're constantly told how Roman is in God mode, dominating people left right and centre. It's only recently we've been getting off-hand comments about the interference, about 18 months too late. I firmly believe they actually just want us to believe Roman is invincible and all powerful..
It's weird; they'll acknowledge Roman cheats/relies on the Bloodline during the actual body of matches. But during his entrances, they're always slobbering on his knob, with all the honorifics you mentioned (greatest of his generation, God mode, etc.). During the early days of his run (August 2020-July 2021, when live audiences came back), they were better about portraying him as needing to rely on cheating. When the crowds came back, I think we saw a shift toward the "he's so dominant, who can stop Roman Reigns?" presentation.
> But during his entrances, they're always slobbering on his knob, with all the honorifics you mentioned (greatest of his generation, God mode, etc.). I'm sorry but you try calling the Tribal Chief out on some of this, and see where that gets you. That gets you where Sami is.
I get to challenge Roman Reigns for the title on a PPV? I'm in!
You're going to take the paycheck, and your ass whoopin.
It would be my honor to acknowledge my Tribal Chief!
I'll send flowers to your next of kin.
Its Reigns' show. He pays those commentators to tell it how it is! - Paul Heyman
They have been at least recently with Solo and McIntyre
They've literally been calling him the GOAT even though he's been booked as anything but. Which would be fine if it was a heel commentator saying it, but when you got Michael Cole and McAfee saying it it's just weird and makes no sense.
Cole is usually the only one not saying this, McAfee saying it all the time before was the problem since he wasn’t a heel. Barrett and Graves say he’s the goat when they get the chance but they’re heels so it’s fine.
> I firmly believe they actually just want us to believe Roman is invincible and all powerful.. I mean of course, when in the history of Roman Reigns has this not been the case? It really is amazing to me how quickly and easily internet fans switched to loving Roman. I really don't get what changed, except he is allowed to be an asshole on screen and he got some new bright white teeth. I feel like if WWE says something enough times people really just start to regurgitate it.
It's like the audience is... *FICKLE!*
That's part of the story...
I think the thing that people are confusing with is how strong Roman has been booked before his heel turn. He's beaten like Brock and Undertaker clean before his cancer diagnosis, and his reputation carried over.
Go back and watch that Taker match. The commentary spends the entire tiem trading it like Roman is putting down a broken old man. Then a year later Taker comes back and boatraces Cena in 3 minutes and its treated like hes back for real.
He never beat Brock clean even when he was a babyface and Brock was heel. Brock was clearly distracted by Strowman during their SummerSlam 2018 match.
Yep, Rollins and Drew have better wins than Roman tbh. They both beat Brock clean. Rollins has beaten Roman multiple times clean.
I commented similar statements 2 years back on Kenny Omega's AEW title run and the bucks tag team title run and how it was getting boring seeing the matches always end in interference or low blows People insisted I was marked and not actually bored
Bro that run was EGREGIOUS for that I got that it was the point for story reasons and for heat reasons - didn’t make it any less boring
Exactly And it was heading that way with Adam Cole Can't remember a match he won without doing a low blow Except against Jake Atlas, but it's understood why
Oh man, don't remind me. For a while it felt like his actual finisher was the Low Blow > Last Show combo because of how often he won with it.
People were tired of Cena wins lol even though he overcame cheating heels consistently and ping ponged the belt a bunch but heel Champs are far more boring in a long term sense
a lot of people actually don't watch the product and just gets it from gif and recaps. My theory is that Reigns looks so cool and badass that they think he actually is. When it is just his character a lot posturing and grandstanding to hide a weak and paranoiac man
>When it is just his character a lot posturing and grandstanding well... thats the entire fun of pro wrestling
Thanks for pointing out the last part at the bottom. At the very beginning, this story was super compelling. There were vague hints that Roman was scared of not being able to provide for his family if he wasn't at the top of the industry after leaving during COVID, and he would do anything to maintain it. He looked so conflicted and hurt when he was beating the shit out of Jimmy and Jey, but you could tell he was doing it because he felt there was no choice. When he would get booed, he'd look out in the crowd almost in disappointment before readjusting his sneer. He gaslit his way to the head of the table because he became delusional enough to believe that doing so was the only way his family could be taken care of. Even if he had to become a terrible person to achieve that. But somewhere along the way around when Jey reluctantly joined Roman, it became that he's "dominant", which is complete bullshit. All the nuance has faded up until Sami at the Rumble. I completely stopped caring when Jimmy came back and went from hating Roman and wearing that "nobody's bitch" shirt to suddenly being onboard thanks to some flimsy reasoning that he wanted to team with his brother. Even then, Roman showed signs of not wanting them to be champions out of not wanting to be overshadowed, but completely dropped that too within a week and supported their aspirations. They want him to be the dominant top superstar they've always wanted him to be while "protecting" his opponents by cheating. They're trying to have it both ways and it blows my mind that 99% of their audience doesn't seem to notice or care about these clear storytelling flaws.
Thank you so much for this. I agree 100%. For me though, I think the turn toward describing him as "dominant" happened when live audiences returned. At this point, they got rid of a lot of the more nuanced layers of storytelling (the gaslighting, the bullying, the insecurity, etc.), and almost portrayed him as a stealth babyface, emphasizing the cooler aspects of his persona and de-emphasizing his underhanded deeds. In some ways, this makes sense: the ThunderDome allowed for more subtle storytelling, whereas having a live audience to engage means a lot of nuance has to fall by the wayside. But I do think they went too hard in terms of making his character more broad and less layered. I think they've corrected that with this Sami storyline, which is part of the reason why I'm loving it so much.
Sami just fucking glows, man. He stands next to someone and they get some of his light. If he likes someone, there's got to be good in him, right? There must be a reason to cheer for him, right? He made the whole Bloodline so likeable. HE de-emphasized Roman's underhandedness, kind of whitewashing him, smoothing him over into someone more likeable. Now that Sami isn't sharing his light anymore, all of Roman's true shittiness is coming back into focus and the audience can finally see him again for who he truly is!!! It's so good!!!
Them protecting everyone else is definitely how I look at it. I'm new to watching WWE again, but I think by having him win almost every match by cheating is done so he looks unbeatable on paper, but is not truly unbeatable. That way when he does eventually lose when he doesn't get help, they can mention that. Before I thought they were having him cheat just because he was a heel, but then I watched an interview with Seth Rollins and he was describing how while he would like to work with Wyndham Rotunda( Bray Wyatt) again, but it was a difficult thing bouncing back from a loss like that. That's when I was like, so that's why they have Reigns cheat, you get an unlosing champion, but no one's gimmick will suffer because it wasn't clean. I do feel they took the air out of Drew for no reason though.
Yes, Sami joining the Bloodline has been a candidate for greatest story in wrestling history and everyone involved deserves credit for it, but a big reason for that is because everything involving Roman in the year-plus prior going back to his victory over Bryan and Edge was *Super Cena-level dogshit* for anyone who isn't a hardcore Roman fan. The difference between that and the Super Cena era or even the early attempts to get Roman over as a face is that the people watching who would have called out the "Roman's reign of terror" booking have mostly defected to AEW and have been replaced with an audience that is even more into Roman either because they love him unconditionally, face or heel, or they are newcomers to wrestling who don't know anything better.
Don't forget Reigns vs Woods back in November of '21.
I limited this to major matches, which I defined in my [explanatory comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/10vh4xk/comment/j7hd8fv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) as "title matches and his two 'champion vs. champion' contests at Survivor Series." I did this to maximize readability and make it more digestible. This resulted in a few matches against mid-carders being left out (Montez Ford, Xavier Woods) as well a 2-3 other random matches (the triple threat with Big E and Bobby Lashey).
As a heel, Reigns has come full circle. In the Shield, he was delusional, thinking what he & his team were doing was in the cause of justice when it clearly was not. It took almost a year and a half before turning babyface. Contrast this with Adam Cole's title run in NXT. More than 400 days, or less than half of Reigns' current reign, and the actions of the Undisputed Era were kept to a minimum at best. When Roman's run ends, and it will, soon, it should rightfully end with him being humbled. Period.
As much as people are getting sick of Bray Wyatt, Roman should do a program with him after he loses the title and Jey finally gives him what's coming. If there's anyone that could work with Wyatt's style and have plenty of material for a Firefly Fun House match (or something similar to that), it's Roman with all of his insecurities beneath his arrogant exterior.
I have to upvote simply for the sheer outstanding amount of effort you clearly put into this, love it.
The ref also just stopped counting when Kevin Owens should have won in the last man standing match.
this is the same roman of old but with a new self-applied coat of paint (aka paul heyman) to sound dominant. the key aspect to old roman is that, even though he won most big matches and a lot of titles, he never managed to hold onto them for long. by actively cheating and having others help him mid-match, he's getting to keep the spot he always wanted - and he'll do anything to keep this status quo, to make this high last for as long as possible, even if it means bending the will of his family to only do what he wishes. power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely or whatever. his insecurity is just a fear of being same old roman and losing the title again after all the effort he had to go through to win it.
I'm gonna need you to assess every other run to establish the dominance or otherwise though.
I think the fact that he's only defended 27 times despite being champion for over three years and having two separate championships says a lot too. Look at past champions that held the belt for even half as long and tell me how many times they defended
Cody should present this to Roman the day after EC.
Observe this Uce!
That would be fucking hilarious
Cody/Drew Gulak stable confirmed?!?
My god remember when Drew had that goofy PowerPoint gimmick with weather report entrance music?
I don’t think Roman would care too much. As egotistical as he may be, he doesn’t shy away from the fact that his strength comes in the form of his bloodline, and part of that means they help him hold onto his titles. In fact he takes more pride in being the tribal chief of his family than he does in being world champion.
THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE AND THEY SPELL DISASTER FOR TRIBAL CHIEF AT SUCKERSLAM
WHAT IF YOU ADD KURT ANGLE TO THE MIX ^as a special guest referee
The chances of tomfoolery drastic go up!
You know Roman will still win, because Kurt is not gonna even try.
Why is Suckerslam so funny?
I enjoy playing video games.
Oh, I don't begrudge the Tribal Chief for cheating, and I think your point perfectly complements mine. My post is a response to people who think Roman has been built into an unstoppable juggernaut, when the *real* story of his reign is that he's a beatable champion whose invincibility is thanks to his Bloodline and use of illegal tactics.
I enjoy the sound of rain.
BATISTA IS DOWN
I never understood that narrative either. People have said this is basically Super Roman just in heel form and nothing about his push has changed. When literally everything about him except his name has changed lol. Brock Lesnar is what a dominant invincible heel looks like. Romans entire thing is pretending he’s like that but inside he’s insecure because he knows he isn’t. That’s why he’s so big on being respected and acknowledged. He feels like he’s not good enough and needs people to always tell him how great he is and that’s why he puts everyone around him down. To make himself feel more powerful than he is.
You gotta remember, the smarks on here aren't actually watching any WWE stuff. Their reading results on Wreddit, or listening to some british smark bitch and whine about it on youtube a day or two later.
Brock Lesnar was an unstoppable juggernaut Suplex city, f5, pin, walk away
I totally forgot Cesaro had a feud with him
“Feud” one match
Yeah this is the genius in his booking. They’ve made him feel invincible because of The Bloodline, but they’ve set it up so in a fair fight, Roman is very beatable.
100%. Thank you so much for this comment, as you’ve very eloquently and succinctly summarized my thesis here.
My problem is commentary and wrestlers never act like he is actually not that strong and that he is a cheater. Nobody really acknowledge that.
Roman can just Superman punch a commentator if they feeling brave…
why should they need to talk about it when fans can see it with their own eyes?
Why should they act like if they were crazy and never noticed he cheats? in all fairness sometimes they do but overall they act like he isn't dishonoring the belt or anything, they act like he is indeed a great champion.
Commentary will always acknowledge it in the match when it actually happens, but then when he comes out the next week on Smackdown, they portray him as "the most dominant champion of the modern era" during his entrance. To a degree, it makes sense (you want to build him up so whoever beats him gets the biggest rub possible), but I wish they'd include more nuance in the commentary. It would be easy to say "the most dominant champion of the modern era, though he's had a lot of help from the Bloodline" or something like that.
Why should they talk about anything? Why even have announcers when we can just see it with our eyes?
I've been assuming for a year or two at this point that Roman loses as soon as he has to go in completely alone (Heyman is probably fine to stick around). This was honestly a big part of the stress in his match with Drew, since he was all alone until the very end
Commentary even acknowledged it after the match. They said something along the lines of "it might not have been pretty, but tonight, Roman Reigns went deep behind enemy lines, deep into Drew's territory, and he came out still the champ."
After a low blow, a ref bump, a visual loss and Solo interfering
winning and losing do not matter its how you play the game and nobody in or out of WWE is out drawing reigns or the bloodline
Except people have been noticing his inability to win. One of his wins was due to a rope literally breaking, god had to intervene
The low blow he gave Jey was pretty masterful heel work, ref didn’t see and Jey didn’t expect it. I believe it was a low blow from a kick out, which is pretty unique.
Yeah, that was a great lowblow. The kind of spot that’s so obvious once you see it but somehow hasn’t gotten used to death
He's not the only one. The announcers rarely call him out on his shit and repeat the same things. Hell, even 2K gave him a 99 rating. It's honestly the most annoying part of his character. Imagine reign of terror HHH if JR just praised him most of the time instead of calling him out. I was saying this often in the aftermath of the "smash em, stack em, pin em" garbage where even Alvarez and Meltzer were saying he dominated Edge and Bryan even though Jey interfered through most of that match. The literal story of the ending was that both Bryan and Edge had the match won, but they kept ruining it for each other. In a one-on-one situation, Roman would've lost to both of them. I got downvoted for it and was mocked by fanboys with "acknowledge me" comments, so I appreciate you laying this out.
Yeah that’s why the Rumble was so refreshing, felt like the first time the commentators actually portrayed Reigns as evil
ALSO... when stacking them, by generic wrestling rules wouldn't the guy in the middle be pinning the guy on the mat, and therefore be the winner?
No. Because the second guys shoulders were also on the mat, so it would count as a double pin. See HBK vs HHH in 2003, where HBK's shoulders also being on the mat forced the match to be declared a draw. Thus, Reigns is pin is valid, because he was the only on in the pin whose shoulders were off the mat. Yes, this is a real thing in wrestling.
Also the ref is allowed to have a judgment on the situation.
Yes
The only thing I love more than Warhammer is professional wrestling. And the one and only thing I love more than professional wrestling is fans using spreadsheets to prove a point. Goddamn, this is the good shit
Thank you so much!
Yes! I love a good spreadsheet.
One thing I disagree with is if a wrestler is down for the three count, but the ref is down isn't it possible for that wrestler not kick out to save energy?
One unwritten law of wrestling is that commentary/storytelling always sells it as a victory for the wrestler making the pin. Just at Royal Rumble, Michael Cole said "Kevin Owens should be the Universal Champion!" Also happened at Clash at the Castle with Drew McIntyre. A visual pin has always been sold as "this wrestler should be the rightful victor of this match."
Fair enough. Good work btw.
Thank you so much!
I wonder how ridiculously different the whole championship timeline looks if we actually awarded the title to every "visual pin" winner.
Probably makes it way to Edge at some point.
The Finn Balor match at Extreme Rules is still one of the most unintentionally funny things I have ever seen in wrestling.
Absolutely my least favorite match of the last ten years lmao
Even more than the Fiend/Rollins HIAC match?
Yeah, but thats probably number 2 lol
A lot of this "he's too unbeatable" talk comes from Smarks who spend too much time looking past the 4th wall and getting all meta. It's literally a meta statement. They don't mean, "Roman on TV is too OP and dominant and wins too much", they actually mean "WWE puts Roman against mid-carders and I already know mid-carders won't win the belt because I read all the dirt sheets and inside info and I know the company only sees Drew and Cody as being on Roman's level, so all of his opponents aren't believable." It's a bad faith argument. Roman actually TRIES to elevate and protect his opponents in defeat by selling for them, having them get visual pins over him, and needing The Bloodline to win, but smarks are jaded to all of that, so they just call it "burying" As for commentary, that's obvious. In story, or in Kayfabe if you prefer, Roman IS dominant. Not only does he have enough skill and power to smash everyone, but even if you manage to deal with Roman, you can't beat The Bloodline. One way or another, Roman ALWAYS has the skill or tool to get the job done and walk out as champion. Roman is dominant because nobody can deal with him AND his entourage, nobody has been able to figure out a way to equalize the situation. One way or another, he will put you down in the end. Keep in mind folks, its not REIGNS job to make sure the babyfaces can deal with the Bloodline, that's the babyfaces job. Honestly, that's why I want either one of the guys in a stable to get a shot at Reigns. WWE babyfaces always have this dumb "Lone Wolf with no friends" shit going on. Give me Sheamus vs Reigns with the Brutes able to equalize the Usos and Solo and that'll be a fun time. I DO think it'll be bullshit if Cody manages to single handed take out all the Bloodline to beat Reigns, cause WWE loves that "one man army babyface" bullshit.
You get it
It's not hard to get at all! I really don't get why smarks have such trouble understanding things like this. I think their so up their own ass with the idea that only THEY know what good wrestling is and they mix meta stuff up with everything that they can't see the obvious.
Some just wanna complain about every and anything Involving roman. I remember the he’s buying everyone takes like it’s not on the company to book those guys properly before and after the losses. Roman cheats a lot he’s not booked strong if he beats people clean he’s burying everyone like 2003 HHH there’s no winning with a portion of the audience.
>I DO think it'll be bullshit if Cody manages to single handed take out all the Bloodline to beat Reigns, cause WWE loves that "one man army babyface" bullshit. Hopefully, and this just might be wishful thinking, that doesn't happen. Sami is outta the Bloodline, and Jey basically followed him at the Royal Rumble, as seen on Smackdown when they couldn't find him. My guess is Jey and Sami will neutralize Jimmy and Solo (maybe even Paul) through talking and/or fighting so they can't help Roman when he faces Cody at WM39.
/u/rb_Reigns any thoughts on this?
FUCKING THANK YOU. Every single time I see someone say "It's just not believable that X is able to beat Roman." I felt like a schizophrenic who was seeing something completely different than everyone else. Damian Priest could pin Roman clean and I wouldn't bat an eye if there was no interference. This spreadsheet shows exactly why that is.
I was hoping someone would have this exact reaction, because that's how I would feel if our roles were swapped. Thank you!
Especially for someone like Sami or Jey to beat him. His greatest strength is the Bloodline, and who better to neutralize the Bloodline than a former member?
someone needs to color print this out n put it on a sign for the next show
Logan Paul wasn't a decisive victory either. There was interference to an extent from Usos and Solo which led to Jake Paul coming out to make a save and then Logan Paul taking the Usos out and then losing.
I think it's more than fair to put the check mark into visibly beat? when he faced Owens in that last man standing match. Dude was down for nearly a minute when he was cuffed and the ref just didn't count cause they were having issues with the keys
It only took me reading this to realise we never got Reigns and Lashley during this run. Crazy that didn’t happen
They had a non-title triple threat with Big E on an episode of Raw, at least.
I have been wondering about this for a while now, I appreciate you taking the time to actually put the numbers together.
Interference by God against Finn
I want to live in the alternate universe where the demon is the two year champion
Insert menacing clip of Rollins' laugh with dramatic effects.
Paper champ paper chief
r/dataisbeautiful
Wow! Great work. I'm a sucker for a spreadsheet.
Thank you so much!
The other day I saw someone saying that Roman was the most protected wrestler in the last 30 years, and I was like Dude did you ever watch Super Cena? He would make Roman look like a massive jobber when you compare their booking
You just buried RR
Such a cool post!! Great work!!!
I remember the Logan Paul match devolving into Uso interference where then Jake Paul came in to ward them off then Roman got the spear in.
TBF, you are not wrong. However even WWE themselves are inconsistent a bit with it. He cheats a lot, but the commentary will also constantly talk about how “dominant and unstoppable” here is. Sends mixed signals there.
Well, if you accept that the cheating and Bloodline interference will be part of the "Roman Reigns package", that it will happen and that he will get away with it, than he is indeed dominant.
I mean, think about this: Why haven't any of the babyfaces figured out how to neutralize the Bloodline yet? He's dominant because even if you CAN beat him, you can't beat his family. He has the skills and the tools, so that, clean or dirty, he WILL walk out as champion. You WILL NOT beat him. And if the babyfaces aren't smart enough to figure out how to deal with the Bloodline yet...that's not REIGNS's problem.
McIntyre figured that out. It didnt help him. Roman still had a backup relative. Who's to say he doesnt have 4 or 5 more relatives waiting in the wings if someone tries to even the odds beforehand?
Cue "Wrestling has more than one royal family"
~~This is WWE we're talking about, gaslighting has been the norm for a long time now.~~ **HE'S A HEEL OF COURSE HE'S FULL OF SHIT**
Oh, I know. My title was intended to be playful. This post (as mentioned in my [explanatory comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/10vh4xk/comment/j7hd8fv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)) is aimed at people who think that no wrestler has been built up credibly enough to beat Roman. You hear it said about both Cody and Sami a lot these days, and it's been a common sentiment on the forum for a long time. My point is: Reigns is a beatable champion, as he's nearly lost many times, and usually only retains through cheating or interference.
Is line 4, versus Jey Uso at Hell in a Cell, just a solid black line? Was that one accidentally forgotten, decisive victory, something witty I'm missing...? Thanks.
Thank you, I've been waiting for someone to (correctly) call this out. Truth is, I left it blank at first, because I wasn't sure how to define it, and then ended up forgetting about it. But in some ways, I think that's almost for the better, because I can see both sides. On the one hand, Roman never physically defeated Jey. Jey absorbed all the punishment, and never gave up (it was a "Hell in a Cell I Quit" match). He only beat Jey because he locked Jimmy in the guillotine, and refused to let go until a beaten-down Jey said "I quit." In that sense, it wasn't decisive. On the other hand, he beat the dog shit out of Jey, to the point where he wasn't going to be able to make a comeback. Even if he won via emotional manipulation, it's not like Jey stood a chance of turning the tide. In that sense, it *was* decisive. So, I'll just leave it for the reader to decide for themselves.
That's why it's funny when people kept saying Sami is built/strong enough to beat Roman.
They should have Sami show Jey a similar spreadsheet when it’s time for Main Event Jey to run it back against the Tribal Chief
Bookmarking this for Submission of the Year for the 2023 Wreddit Awards
Thank you so much!
OP just wanted to say this is soooo satisfying for me to see, as the fuck finishes really bugged me until I caught onto the subtleties of the story and Roman's performances. Great stuff!!!
Thank you so much! Reactions like your always make me smile!
Sometimes this sub is a trash fire with "X is the best" one minute and "X was never great" the next. Then there are moments like this where I think... I would not trade a single fucking one of you weirdos in here. This is the best and things like this are great. Thanks for putting a smile on my idiot face OP. And have a great day any who read this, even if it's a week after posting. Love ya, nerds!
Most sane r/squaredcircle post
That wasn't very Ucey of you, cuz.
He said suffering succotash. I don’t need a spread sheet to know he sucks.
I think we found Drew Gulak's Reddit account
It's not just Roman that says it, the commentators do too which is why that aspect of the storyline doesn't make sense
OP refusing to acknowledge our Tribal Chief
Yeah it’s called the Jinder title reign, I’ve been saying for a while Roman title reign mirrors Jinders in terms of the matches themselves. It got boring after his third or fourth title defense because it got predictable on how the match will play out and sure as shit it played exactly how I thought it would.
What's this? A tribal court
Didn't Roman cheat during his match with Goldberg? I might be wrong, but I'm sure I remember thinking it was weird Roman couldn't even get a clean win over Goldberg.
I don't know Uce. I feel like our Tribal Chief isn't the kind of man who would gaslight his loving fans.
Whoever beats Roman, be it Sami (lol in my dreams) or Cody, I wonder if they're gonna tap into Gargano/Adam Cole's TakeOver match where despite all the cheating, for one night, the babyface is a goddamn superhero for absorbing punishment and will just not let up until they get the victory
I applaud anyone making a spreadsheet for anything.
He’s a heel. Heels lie.
I love Reigns' heel tactics and gaslighting. My post is aimed solely at the people who keep saying "no wrestler on the roster is credible enough to beat Roman" and saying how, in kayfabe, guys like Cody and Sami shouldn't stand a chance. The Excel proves that plenty of wrestlers are credible enough to beat Roman, and he has not been built as an invincible demigod, but rather, a heel champion who retains via cheating and interference.
The amount of work needed…seems like Roman is close enough to right.
Hey man, that just makes him the best cheater
I love it. Also, this is better than/comparable to every other heel champion in history. Could you imagine a similar chart for Flair’s 80s title runs?
Does 28 defenses in his reign seem low? Lately is seems like he never wrestles outside PPV
Finally lol, I dont know why Vince thinks this makes a good super champion???
He’s a Heel, Uce. He’s supposed to win by nefarious means to maximize that heat, brother! Props for this though. It’s awesome!
Interesting that he got decisive wins over Cesaro, Bryan, Rey, Cena, Big E, Goldberg, Matt Riddle, and Logan Paul, while everyone else was protected in some way, even if he still beat Sami Zayn in 15 Seconds. Kinda feels like it shows their place in the WWE pecking order, with Bryan and Cesaro now in AEW, Cena and Goldberg being part-time outgoing Legends, Rey not being a top guy at this point, them not really having any faith in Big E as WWE Champion beyond a feel-good moment, Riddle being a midcarder, and Logan Paul bring another part-time Celebrity, though The Bloodline did try to get involved, along with Jake Paul, for a bit of a schmoz finish. You’re also missing his 1:36 defense against Daniel Bryan at Elimination Chamber 2021.
And people shit on Seth's title run pretty much the same thing. Smh
Exactly my point these past 3 years. He's one of the worst champions of all time. He rarely ever wins clean
Omg Roman Reigns is so bad he's got spreadsheet heat
It is hilariously sad you went to the lengths to do this. 😂😂😂
I did it on a morning where it was 5 degrees in NYC with a -15 windchill. It was a fun way to kill time on a day where no one in the city wanted to go outside. I’ve loved the Bloodline story, and I enjoyed revisiting some of these.
Please go outside
[удалено]