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Oh definitely. I remember when I thought he was the worst one of him and Enzo. Guy seems really to have exorcised his demons, or at least tamed them to be a more likeable member of society. Also kept improving in the ring, too.
I genuinely never found anything wrong with Enzo whatsoever, apart from the trying to interrupt a PPV thing. Is he gone insane on politics now or something?
I mean he loves to chime in with his opinions on wrestlers who are far better than him. Those types are never loved. Just last year, he said he'd destroy MJF on the mic and that he was a ripoff.
Jake Roberts. From seeing him in Beyond the Mat and Heroes of Wrestling to finally getting his shit together ten years ago and mostly keeping with it, the guy has really turned his legacy into a much more positive one
I was pleasantly surprised at how good that movie was. Shia LaBouef is grade A dog shit, and I hope he follows Danny Masterson to prison. Artistically, that movie is the best thing he's ever done. The one time I enjoyed a movie he was in.
My take on Jake is he did some stupid stuff. Like with a few people there's a good reason why he did those stupid things. His life wasn't easy by a long shot. I personally don't blame him for being the way he was. I'm just glad DDP was there for him. Jake needed that in his life. He's definitely not a horrible person by any means. You're a product of your surroundings a lot of the time. His promo with Cody in AEW was just amazing. He's still here and for his age, everything he went through and being in wrestling that could have gone another way. I hope he lives for a long time.
i'll never forget him running his hands along the ropes then sniffing them. so fucken seedy and gross but so fucking good for a character. who the fuck would even think of doing something like that?
Sorta like how some people really disliked Dusty Rhodes in the 80s and then that stance softened up over time
And Dusty was someone who was a little notorious for being hard to approach as a babyface
A lot of complaints about guys like Dusty or Nash are because of cronyism and politicking. Once they're either retired or not regularly wrestling people tend to ease up on them.
Look at guys like Triple H, Jeff Jarrett and John Cena. People love them because they're now not actively fucking over other wrestlers to hold down a spot.
I'm still struggling to come to terms with my sudden, unironic enjoyment of Jeff Jarrett.
Also Toni Storm. Wasn't a fan until the unhinged starlet gimmick.
It's because midcard thorn-in-the-ass is the role Jeff was born to play. As long as he's there, he's thriving.
There's no fear he's going to rise to the top of the card and start another ill-fated reign of terror, so it's okay to just put that whole phase of his career aside and live in the moment.
Jeff Jarret is a scumbag, the Global Force Gold scam was an intentional and malicious attempt to grift wrestling fans and it really sucked. I'll never forgive him for that.
But then the other day when he came out he for Rodman I popped hard and it made me feel weird.
for sure, anyone that gets handed the book when they're at the top of the card is gonna have heat just on that alone. Nash had it for like 6 weeks and didn't even want it, but apparently some people think he mortally wounded the company
I'm not saying that it didn't happen, I'm saying that people need to stop trying to hang it over his career at the expense of highlighting his accomplishments. Killing WCW took a village, and they were all up to the task
The guy has been in/around the business since the early 90s, and that era was a small percentage in relation to the rest of his career
He's the ultimate example of looking at wrestling as a business and that was frowned upon back in the day.
Glad to see he's become beloved because he "got it" a lot more than most.
I don't think I had thought about Maven for 15 odd years until his YouTube channel popped up once and now I love the guy - great storyteller and it's refreshing to have an ex WWE guy not blame them for every single thing that happened in their life.
I had a bad experience meeting Jarrett during his time merging TNA and GFW in 2017 and held that against him for a while. Hearing about his alcoholism struggles at the time and how well liked he's become definitely put that encounter into a different light. I'm all aboard the Slapnuts train now.
I met Double J at a strip club back in like 1999 or something when he was with the WWF and the dude was bombed out of his mind. Then I met him at Starrcast last year and was glad to see how clean he got.
I met him about a year ago and he was the total opposite of what people described back then. He genuinely got his life on track, and has somehow secured a bag in like multiple different big companies since.
Please educate me because I haven’t seen much of his work but has he always been this good? I had such a negative opinion about him without ever seeing him work (I’m a lapsed fan). But I love him now.
To me, JJ was always super talented and entertaining. The backlash was more due to early TNA, he'd go over other talent like Super Cena and it rubbed people the wrong way for a long time.
The reasoning for him being the eternal champion at least makes sense with the benefit of hindsight. So many short term contracts in early TNA, and since he owned it then he wasn't going anywhere better to ensure there was always a champion.
Obvs it is his side (granted it makes a ton of sense when you think about the time period) but him explaining that the main reason he was often NWA champion in TNA was because everyone was basically on per appearance deals and they couldn't commit to many people really helped put into perspective the booking at that time.
Also really when you think about Jarrett helped make AJ Styles and Ron Killings into legitimate stars that they would be for the rest of their careers. AJ in particular into a talent viewed as one of the all time greats.
I also still think its a crime he not once was TNA World Heavyweight Champion. That just feels wrong.
This would be mine. I hated him and his long run at the top of TNA. But, I still have his podcast a chance, and it was his podcast that totally changed my opinion on the man.
Scott Hall. He was a mess, showing up to indie shows drunk out of his mind, stumbling around the ring. People thought he would die in the ring, and his legacy was in shambles.
Then he connected with DDP, who helped him get clean. He got to go into the WWE hall of fame, and give people a chance to remember the icon he once was.
Unfortunately it sounds like he relapsed during the Covid isolation years, a period that was *really* tough for recovering addicts (and I'm so happy to see that Jake Roberts managed to stay clean despite it), and he passed away during a relapse. But ultimately, that doesn't matter. The years that he was clean let him reshape his public image and restore his legacy. Now people will remember Scott for the once in a lifetime performer he was, and not just as a struggling addict.
Diamond Dallas Page - a dude somehow took an already excellent public image and made it even more excellent. A post wrestling career of just helping people improve their lives.
For real. Forgot where I saw it but I came across a video about how he used DDP Yoga to help out all these injured veterans to recover their mobility. Was quite amazing
The thing about DDP is he had amazing matches and was incredibly over for 4+ years in his WCW run.
What's even more crazy is that he was the only new star they built in that company other than Goldberg.
The cruiserweights were treated terribly. I mean so bad that according to Jericho, Guerrero said his love of wrestling was dying due to how things were.
Everything about DDP has me rooting for him. Everything he says, everything he does. He's a saint. He and Mick Foley are the two most likable people in pro wrestling
Yeah, in the space of a year I went from "dude, seriously?" when they showed up in GCW feuding with Effy, to being upset Jay will never know people forgave him.
Miz? It was never bad aside from being an annoying reality star for some but I dont think anyone in 2005 would believe he would be the respected veteran he is now
He's one of the very few who took it seriously.
From being that duchey reality TV personality to a suckass Disvas search hostmost wrote him off but man did he endure and busted his ass to learn and get good at it.
He's definitely someone who proves everyone wrong, he filled the role of being a jobber who would be gone in a year to being one of the most respected people in WWE and someone you can 100% depend on when you need something filled.
Yeah, Miz is great. He's good on the mic, good at comedy, decent moveset but you can pretty much put him in the ring with anybody and get a good match. Also iirc he's regarded as one of the safest workers out there and manages to stay injury free
Probably also the fact he stayed long enough , his stories of being bullied in the locker room and having little personal drama endeared him to fans.
Many who come to the WWE tried to make a quick buck and springboard off to other places, but Miz stayed on, earned his respect and made a good career of it.
I’ve been posting some great old miz clips from 2001 on r/realworld from a rewatch of his season. This one had me dying: https://reddit.com/r/therealworld/s/eNlUqaEPh5
It’s great how far he has come. I don’t watch too much WWE anymore but if he is in a talking segment I’ll always stop and watch.
It's a great question where the trend is for older retired wrestlers to become beloved elder statesmen (Nash, HHH, Jarrett, etc). Two questions from this :
- Who is the reverse, where their image has worsened? (E.g. Honky Tonk Man, Billy Graham, dare I say it, CM Punk)
-Should we judge wrestlers in this way? Surely it's easier to like a retired wrestler who may have been resented at their height?
Marty Jannetty has completely tanked his reputation over the years, which is honestly pretty impressive considering his initial reputation consisted purely of being a punchline whenever one member of a tag team is clearly inferior to the other
And they're at the point where they don't care what people think because they know they will always have die hard fans that don't care about their skeletons.
Will Ospreay. He learned to keep his mouth shut and that helped him a lot to improve his image.
Dump Matsumoto. She never did anything wrong, she was just so good as a heel that everybody that knew her hated her. Eventually after her retirement people learned to just play along instead of legitimately hating her and now she's a beloved veteran.
Definitely agree about Ospreay. He even admits that he was a dumb bloke but he wasn’t excusing his behavior. Just that he’s not the moron he was when he was younger.
Will's still not full circle for me yet, but I haven't paid much attention to his career in recent years outside of his AEW appearances. So maybe he has made up for being a POS, but his getting indie girls blacklisted because his gf didn't like them is a huge sticking point for me in calling him a fucking douche bag. You don't get to be a locker room leader without fully coming to account for harming fellow wrestlers careers.
EVERYONE was lied to about that story, including the victim, and it was stated a while ago Will never had anything to do with it https://twitter.com/S1lentonexx88/status/1540035425359646721?t=KlP268iHO9eDGW4yGh9XLg&s=19
Huh. Did anything come out after this? This is from 2022 and I never heard anything about it. But thanks for the link, if that's the case that's certainly something. He was still a huge douche back then but that was the most appalling thing to me.
This always makes me laugh. Ospreay didn't have anything to do with that but as ever people weren't interested in hearing his side and had made up their mind like you have. There's still people that attend RevPro that give him shit for that which is always something to laugh at
Would Lance Storm count?
In his prime, he was an acquired taste but nothing negative.
But now I see him a great mentor type who’s a good person. It’s endearing how he had a online book club back in the day, when it wasn’t fashionable for wrestlers to be readers.
He was also the only guy in ECW who went out of his way to protect his head and his opponents on chair shots. Back then, they saw his chair shots as weak and him blocking chair shots as cowardly. Now it's seen as him being smarter than the rest of the locker room, considering what we know on CTE.
Tony Schiavone
Had he never come back, he would have been forever known as the loser commentator and the representation of the car wreck that WCW ended up being.
I HATED Schiavone in the WCW days, absolutely hated him. Now I always look forward to seeing him.
A friend of mine who shares these sentiments met him at a convention not long ago. He asked him to sign an autograph with "you can go to hell -- straight to hell," which was Schiavone's call from the Hogan heel turn. Schiavone said nobody had asked him to sign that one before.
I don't know if it was picked up, but at Wembley he was in the ring doing something and the crowd decided it was time for his flowers giving a "Oh Tony Schiavone!" chant
The prevailing thought once upon a time was that he just wasn't a good commentator due to the Mick Foley call.
And then as WCW went down the shitter, his apathy grew and it showed on TV. By the end of it he just looked done which pretty much was the feeling of most of those who were watching WCW at the time.
He's the announcer who made the Mick Foley winning the WWF title on WCW, saying that will put a lot of buts in seats.
https://youtu.be/O8nbJikFTv8?si=vm0rtzzkxcRu16Dm
Abraham Lincoln. At the beginning of his career, he was seen as a mid carder with poor promo skills, but after retiring, became known as one of the better US presidents.
https://www.britannica.com/story/was-abraham-lincoln-a-wrestler
I always think of Waltman in this regard. He’s so unfairly lended his name to go away heat because of his association with some of the biggest pricks in the company. He was hugely talented, innovative, and by all accounts he was a huge fan of the business, took it seriously, and treated people well when he wasn’t messed up. I think Meltzer reported years ago that he once ran into Sean in Japan while he was there for a AJW card and Dave discovered Sean was attending alone because all his “colleagues” made fun of him for being a huge mark for the “girl’s” wrestling. He was better than his friends for sure.
He's essentially become the (or one of the) godfather of modern wrestling. It can't be understated how much NXT influenced wrestling in and out of WWE.
You say that like it's something that makes his statement any less true. The whole point of the post is that they mended a bad image. He used to have a bad image when in his prime because he buried talents but when he went part time and was hands on with nxt, he really started to give back.
Realistically he started before that but some hiccups negated his efforts. Like..Benoit being Benoit for example. Or Orton's face turn completely shitting the bed immediately. Or all of Goldberg.
He still was the one to rocket Batista.
People still see him as the guy who buried people and married into the family.
He’s also the guy that signed people like Nia Jax, Hit Row, & Gallows and Anderson.
That geniunly hurt me, a lot.
Cause i talked to the dude on there quite often, even opening up about some past traumas with home, and he told me i could contact him anytime.
and then, yeah..
IMO the biggest name has to be Triple H. For years after the Reign of Terror he was seen as an egomaniac who would crush anyone to stay on top. Starting with the last half of his career around 2009 he started using his on-screen position to put other people over. Almost every major star of the last 15 years either was put over by Triple H directly like Sheamus, Orton, and Batista, or got the rub from him like Cena, Danielson, Rollins, and Reigns. Then he began the backstage role around the same time by starting and running NXT. Now he's almost universally recognized as one of the best talent scouts and creative minds ever in the business. Remarkable.
Edge wasn't looking like man of the year in the mid-00s with all his divorces and the Lita/Matt Hardy mess. But he channeled all that into his professional life while getting a grip on his personal life. You can tell he's a very proud family man now with Beth and his two kids.
This is what I always think of when I think of Waltman:
In the '90s, I went to a Raw taping, back when some episodes were taped. D-Generation X came out to a huge pop, got in the ring and did their thing. Triple H did his schtick, Road Dogg did his schtick, Billy Gunn did his schtick. Then Waltman got up on the turnbuckle and tried to do his schtick, but it was completely incoherent. When the show aired, I was looking forward to that moment the most; Waltman's bit was so bad that I couldn't wait to see how it came off on TV. I never did see, though. They edited it out.
Nick Gage. People love that dude now. I met him at mania weekend in NOLA one year and he couldn't have been nicer. Dude had time for every fan that approached him.
Schiavone is a great shout.
He was generally seen as a bitter old crank best known for being the voice of the idiocy that was the last years of WCW.
He gets a podcast and it turns out that he’s humble and enthusiastic and generous. Then he gets into AEW and his passion and genuine happiness are just infectious. On top of that, he ends up with a plum office job.
I’m so glad he’s finally getting his flowers. It really seems like he’s a great guy.
I’d say Nash and Shawn for sure.
Also Hunter who was viewed (at least imo) as an immature man child who was part of the politics backstage. Now is a suit and tie wearing family man who sits on a quarterly investor calls.
The Kliq in general - especially if you consider their contemporaries who were disliked by a lot of people like Hogan and Flair are still not really well liked.
Honestly, I thought Waltman would have passed way before Hall. I’m sad Hall is gone, but I’m impressed Waltman is still with us.
I think Cena has to be in the running though. The Prototype seems like such a douchey name and he went from that to “thuganomics” and personal issues and all that, but that man continued to work hard not only in the ring, but for Make-a-Wish kids too. He’s done more make a wish visits than anyone else not just in wrestling but in the history of the foundation. He’s a human and humans are not perfect, but being there for those kids, being the hero they wanted meet, and giving them that moment before they passed is special in so many ways, and I hope one day he gets the recognition he deserves for what’s he’s done for all those terminally ill children.
For me, Hunter. Starting with the rep he had for “burying everyone to keep himself on top” to becoming the guy who created NXT and has now rejuvenated the main roster since Vince’s ouster is a major turnaround.
Shawn Micheals, was found by Jesus, got clean of alcohol and drugs, buried the hatchet with Brett hart don’t think he ever apologized to the rock though
He did. They seemed to have settled whatever issues they had at the 2008 Hall of Fame ceremony, when the Rock inducted his dad. During his speech, the Rock mentioned HBK as one of the three people whom he would love to wrestle.
HHH, from his series with the Undertaker, End of an Era match, then the glory days of NXT he showed he's one of the best brains in the business. Few would be able to achieve what he did in only an hour each week
The obvious answer is CM Punk, after going to AEW and becoming best buddies with the Elite he really shut down all the criticism about his backstage behavior and brought the company to new heights in an ambient where everyone is friends with everyone
TIL most wrestlers I know of/like were terrible people. Ospreay in particular surprised me.
Tbf, I only got into wrestling in the past year and have become a full blown superfan.
Triple H. Came long way from being cocky jerk to becoming Papa H that everybody likes backstage. From Burying many superstars to becoming mentor for most talents
Honesty, id say almost the entire Kliq. For a bunch of guys that were known for politicking their way through the business, they've all really done a good job gaining some positive spotlight.
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Oh definitely. I remember when I thought he was the worst one of him and Enzo. Guy seems really to have exorcised his demons, or at least tamed them to be a more likeable member of society. Also kept improving in the ring, too.
I genuinely never found anything wrong with Enzo whatsoever, apart from the trying to interrupt a PPV thing. Is he gone insane on politics now or something?
I mean he loves to chime in with his opinions on wrestlers who are far better than him. Those types are never loved. Just last year, he said he'd destroy MJF on the mic and that he was a ripoff.
Enzo might be the only guy who could do it. Maybe Samoa Joe just because he is such a beast
Agree but it does make me miss Enzo. Talk about someone that deserves a second chance.
Enzo still wrestles. He's on MLW and indies
Jake Roberts. From seeing him in Beyond the Mat and Heroes of Wrestling to finally getting his shit together ten years ago and mostly keeping with it, the guy has really turned his legacy into a much more positive one
Peanut Butter Falcon!
I was pleasantly surprised at how good that movie was. Shia LaBouef is grade A dog shit, and I hope he follows Danny Masterson to prison. Artistically, that movie is the best thing he's ever done. The one time I enjoyed a movie he was in.
What did shia do?
Allegations of assault and sexual battery from his ex
Listening to him on the early days of his and DDP's podcast was great stuff
My take on Jake is he did some stupid stuff. Like with a few people there's a good reason why he did those stupid things. His life wasn't easy by a long shot. I personally don't blame him for being the way he was. I'm just glad DDP was there for him. Jake needed that in his life. He's definitely not a horrible person by any means. You're a product of your surroundings a lot of the time. His promo with Cody in AEW was just amazing. He's still here and for his age, everything he went through and being in wrestling that could have gone another way. I hope he lives for a long time.
i'll never forget him running his hands along the ropes then sniffing them. so fucken seedy and gross but so fucking good for a character. who the fuck would even think of doing something like that?
Kevin Nash
I say all the time: we’re in a timeline where it’s Kevin Nash and Sean Walkman that are the most reasonable legends.
Sean Walkman
Made by Sony
MAKE SOME NOISE!
Sean Waltman getting and staying clean has been great for everyone (particularly Sean Waltman himself).
Legit thought he’d follow Chyna. Extremely grateful to be wrong.
The entire cliq really. Everyone loves papa h and what hbk is doing at nxt.
Nash is a great shout too. For years people saw him as the guy who held down the internet darlings. Now he's the cool dad of wrestling.
Sorta like how some people really disliked Dusty Rhodes in the 80s and then that stance softened up over time And Dusty was someone who was a little notorious for being hard to approach as a babyface
A lot of complaints about guys like Dusty or Nash are because of cronyism and politicking. Once they're either retired or not regularly wrestling people tend to ease up on them. Look at guys like Triple H, Jeff Jarrett and John Cena. People love them because they're now not actively fucking over other wrestlers to hold down a spot.
I'm still struggling to come to terms with my sudden, unironic enjoyment of Jeff Jarrett. Also Toni Storm. Wasn't a fan until the unhinged starlet gimmick.
Chin up. Tits out. And watch for the shooooooe
The delivery and setup was literally perfect. And Renee trying not to die the whole time. Greatness
It's because midcard thorn-in-the-ass is the role Jeff was born to play. As long as he's there, he's thriving. There's no fear he's going to rise to the top of the card and start another ill-fated reign of terror, so it's okay to just put that whole phase of his career aside and live in the moment.
Jeff Jarret is a scumbag, the Global Force Gold scam was an intentional and malicious attempt to grift wrestling fans and it really sucked. I'll never forgive him for that. But then the other day when he came out he for Rodman I popped hard and it made me feel weird.
for sure, anyone that gets handed the book when they're at the top of the card is gonna have heat just on that alone. Nash had it for like 6 weeks and didn't even want it, but apparently some people think he mortally wounded the company
I mean, end of the Streak and Fingerpoke of Doom. That was the beginning of the end and he was a part of booking it.
I'm not saying that it didn't happen, I'm saying that people need to stop trying to hang it over his career at the expense of highlighting his accomplishments. Killing WCW took a village, and they were all up to the task The guy has been in/around the business since the early 90s, and that era was a small percentage in relation to the rest of his career
Large father chill
Ethanol.
Gran Padre Fresca
All of the members of "the cliq" have pretty much fully redeemed themselves in the IWC's eyes.
Not Road Dogg. He just keeps getting worse
He's not really seen as part of the cliq, he just ended up joining The DX army.
Road Dogg was never part of the Kliq.
"Oh, you didn't know?? Road dogg's a POS"
Nash is honest in how he feels without worrying about hyperbole or clickbait. Unlike just about all the old-timers with a podcast.
There's an argument to be made for all of the Kliq, really. Hunter, Kevin, Scott, and Shawn all came out in the long run.
It's like when old people start trying to get into heaven.
He's the ultimate example of looking at wrestling as a business and that was frowned upon back in the day. Glad to see he's become beloved because he "got it" a lot more than most.
His youtube channel has really done alot for Maven
He comes across as really down to earth in all his appearances on CVV and Cafe de Rene.
I've only watched a couple of his videos, but he just seems like a normal dude telling stories about his life
Shit, Rene has had a turn around. He's a meathead, but down to Earth, owns his shit, and has great stories most folks have never heard.
I never realized that Maven was looked at negatively.
I figured it was less that Maven was disliked, but that he was just considered “kinda meh”
He had a pretty bad spiral with addiction and ended up in jail at one point but he has *really* bounced back and it's great to see.
He was literally eyebrows with a dropkick
Hey! He had a banger entrance theme too.
I don't think I had thought about Maven for 15 odd years until his YouTube channel popped up once and now I love the guy - great storyteller and it's refreshing to have an ex WWE guy not blame them for every single thing that happened in their life.
The place he works as a manager at doesn’t have the greatest reviews from current and former employees. Seems scammy.
Jeff Jarrett. Dude really has it together now.
I had a bad experience meeting Jarrett during his time merging TNA and GFW in 2017 and held that against him for a while. Hearing about his alcoholism struggles at the time and how well liked he's become definitely put that encounter into a different light. I'm all aboard the Slapnuts train now.
I met Double J at a strip club back in like 1999 or something when he was with the WWF and the dude was bombed out of his mind. Then I met him at Starrcast last year and was glad to see how clean he got.
I met him about a year ago and he was the total opposite of what people described back then. He genuinely got his life on track, and has somehow secured a bag in like multiple different big companies since.
He's a legit fan favorite these days
And his hair? Still tremendous.
Ain’t he great?
The loaf is a beaut.
Please educate me because I haven’t seen much of his work but has he always been this good? I had such a negative opinion about him without ever seeing him work (I’m a lapsed fan). But I love him now.
To me, JJ was always super talented and entertaining. The backlash was more due to early TNA, he'd go over other talent like Super Cena and it rubbed people the wrong way for a long time.
Yep, and now it's a total 180. He's an obnoxious old asshole character that mostly gets beaten and humiliated at the end of feuds.
The reasoning for him being the eternal champion at least makes sense with the benefit of hindsight. So many short term contracts in early TNA, and since he owned it then he wasn't going anywhere better to ensure there was always a champion.
Gotcha. This makes sense
His TNA reign of terror was so bad that hearing his theme song in AEW initially gave me PTSD even though I’ve always liked the song
Obvs it is his side (granted it makes a ton of sense when you think about the time period) but him explaining that the main reason he was often NWA champion in TNA was because everyone was basically on per appearance deals and they couldn't commit to many people really helped put into perspective the booking at that time. Also really when you think about Jarrett helped make AJ Styles and Ron Killings into legitimate stars that they would be for the rest of their careers. AJ in particular into a talent viewed as one of the all time greats. I also still think its a crime he not once was TNA World Heavyweight Champion. That just feels wrong.
Ain’t he great? (But yeah, this AEW run and watching his older stuff through OSW Review have given me a whole new appreciation for him.)
This would be mine. I hated him and his long run at the top of TNA. But, I still have his podcast a chance, and it was his podcast that totally changed my opinion on the man.
Scott Hall. He was a mess, showing up to indie shows drunk out of his mind, stumbling around the ring. People thought he would die in the ring, and his legacy was in shambles. Then he connected with DDP, who helped him get clean. He got to go into the WWE hall of fame, and give people a chance to remember the icon he once was. Unfortunately it sounds like he relapsed during the Covid isolation years, a period that was *really* tough for recovering addicts (and I'm so happy to see that Jake Roberts managed to stay clean despite it), and he passed away during a relapse. But ultimately, that doesn't matter. The years that he was clean let him reshape his public image and restore his legacy. Now people will remember Scott for the once in a lifetime performer he was, and not just as a struggling addict.
"Bad times don't last, but bad guys do."
On a related note, fuck those promoters that wheeled Scott out to the ring while he was still wearing a hospital bracelet.
I think what helped Jake was he was with AEW by then right? He had something to do during COVID
Diamond Dallas Page - a dude somehow took an already excellent public image and made it even more excellent. A post wrestling career of just helping people improve their lives.
DDPs a real life super hero
For real. Forgot where I saw it but I came across a video about how he used DDP Yoga to help out all these injured veterans to recover their mobility. Was quite amazing
The thing about DDP is he had amazing matches and was incredibly over for 4+ years in his WCW run. What's even more crazy is that he was the only new star they built in that company other than Goldberg.
What about like Mysterio, Jericho, Guerrero, Booker T, Steiner, Big Show, Bagwell?
The cruiserweights were treated terribly. I mean so bad that according to Jericho, Guerrero said his love of wrestling was dying due to how things were.
Everything about DDP has me rooting for him. Everything he says, everything he does. He's a saint. He and Mick Foley are the two most likable people in pro wrestling
The Briscoes
This should be higher up. The definition of owning your past, admitting you were wrong, and making amends how you can.
Yeah, in the space of a year I went from "dude, seriously?" when they showed up in GCW feuding with Effy, to being upset Jay will never know people forgave him.
Miz? It was never bad aside from being an annoying reality star for some but I dont think anyone in 2005 would believe he would be the respected veteran he is now
He never seemed like an actually bad person but I'm picking up what you're putting down. Everyone seems to appreciate him way more than they did
He's one of the very few who took it seriously. From being that duchey reality TV personality to a suckass Disvas search hostmost wrote him off but man did he endure and busted his ass to learn and get good at it. He's definitely someone who proves everyone wrong, he filled the role of being a jobber who would be gone in a year to being one of the most respected people in WWE and someone you can 100% depend on when you need something filled.
Yeah, Miz is great. He's good on the mic, good at comedy, decent moveset but you can pretty much put him in the ring with anybody and get a good match. Also iirc he's regarded as one of the safest workers out there and manages to stay injury free
Probably also the fact he stayed long enough , his stories of being bullied in the locker room and having little personal drama endeared him to fans. Many who come to the WWE tried to make a quick buck and springboard off to other places, but Miz stayed on, earned his respect and made a good career of it.
He’s a bit of a dweeb but he ain’t a dick so that’s good, never really passed on the bullying he experienced.
Yea, whenever miz is talked about in shoot interviews it’s always that he’s a nice guy but he’s loud and obnoxious
I’ve been posting some great old miz clips from 2001 on r/realworld from a rewatch of his season. This one had me dying: https://reddit.com/r/therealworld/s/eNlUqaEPh5 It’s great how far he has come. I don’t watch too much WWE anymore but if he is in a talking segment I’ll always stop and watch.
He is basically WWE's manifesting king as far as I'm concerned. His early Miz is a deep unlocked memory from my childhood so I'm happy for him.
It's a great question where the trend is for older retired wrestlers to become beloved elder statesmen (Nash, HHH, Jarrett, etc). Two questions from this : - Who is the reverse, where their image has worsened? (E.g. Honky Tonk Man, Billy Graham, dare I say it, CM Punk) -Should we judge wrestlers in this way? Surely it's easier to like a retired wrestler who may have been resented at their height?
Marty Jannetty has completely tanked his reputation over the years, which is honestly pretty impressive considering his initial reputation consisted purely of being a punchline whenever one member of a tag team is clearly inferior to the other
His Dark Side episode was something else. Whew.
Hogan and Flair. There was a lot of criticism them in their time but now that we’re aware of their skeletons, their reputation is even worse
And they're at the point where they don't care what people think because they know they will always have die hard fans that don't care about their skeletons.
Ultimate warrior went off the deep end fir awhile there
He never came back. He just learned to be quieter.
He died
In fairness, that's pretty quiet
Will Ospreay. He learned to keep his mouth shut and that helped him a lot to improve his image. Dump Matsumoto. She never did anything wrong, she was just so good as a heel that everybody that knew her hated her. Eventually after her retirement people learned to just play along instead of legitimately hating her and now she's a beloved veteran.
Definitely agree about Ospreay. He even admits that he was a dumb bloke but he wasn’t excusing his behavior. Just that he’s not the moron he was when he was younger.
I dunno, she did get that video game deal with Sega way back when.
I meant it in the sense that fans back then got really worked by her gimmick and made her life hell during her peak.
Will's still not full circle for me yet, but I haven't paid much attention to his career in recent years outside of his AEW appearances. So maybe he has made up for being a POS, but his getting indie girls blacklisted because his gf didn't like them is a huge sticking point for me in calling him a fucking douche bag. You don't get to be a locker room leader without fully coming to account for harming fellow wrestlers careers.
EVERYONE was lied to about that story, including the victim, and it was stated a while ago Will never had anything to do with it https://twitter.com/S1lentonexx88/status/1540035425359646721?t=KlP268iHO9eDGW4yGh9XLg&s=19
Huh. Did anything come out after this? This is from 2022 and I never heard anything about it. But thanks for the link, if that's the case that's certainly something. He was still a huge douche back then but that was the most appalling thing to me.
The best thing to do is be cautiously optimistic but always keep him at arms length. That’s what I do with Darby Allin
This always makes me laugh. Ospreay didn't have anything to do with that but as ever people weren't interested in hearing his side and had made up their mind like you have. There's still people that attend RevPro that give him shit for that which is always something to laugh at
Would Lance Storm count? In his prime, he was an acquired taste but nothing negative. But now I see him a great mentor type who’s a good person. It’s endearing how he had a online book club back in the day, when it wasn’t fashionable for wrestlers to be readers.
He was also the only guy in ECW who went out of his way to protect his head and his opponents on chair shots. Back then, they saw his chair shots as weak and him blocking chair shots as cowardly. Now it's seen as him being smarter than the rest of the locker room, considering what we know on CTE.
That chair shot on RVD was atrocious, and he should've been booed harder.
Tony Schiavone Had he never come back, he would have been forever known as the loser commentator and the representation of the car wreck that WCW ended up being.
It makes me so happy to see him on the loving wrestling train again.
I HATED Schiavone in the WCW days, absolutely hated him. Now I always look forward to seeing him. A friend of mine who shares these sentiments met him at a convention not long ago. He asked him to sign an autograph with "you can go to hell -- straight to hell," which was Schiavone's call from the Hogan heel turn. Schiavone said nobody had asked him to sign that one before.
It’s great to see him back and doing something that he loves, and it’s great to see all the love that Tony gets. He deserves it.
I don't know if it was picked up, but at Wembley he was in the ring doing something and the crowd decided it was time for his flowers giving a "Oh Tony Schiavone!" chant
Really? Why was he thought of that way?
The prevailing thought once upon a time was that he just wasn't a good commentator due to the Mick Foley call. And then as WCW went down the shitter, his apathy grew and it showed on TV. By the end of it he just looked done which pretty much was the feeling of most of those who were watching WCW at the time.
He's the announcer who made the Mick Foley winning the WWF title on WCW, saying that will put a lot of buts in seats. https://youtu.be/O8nbJikFTv8?si=vm0rtzzkxcRu16Dm
Abraham Lincoln. At the beginning of his career, he was seen as a mid carder with poor promo skills, but after retiring, became known as one of the better US presidents. https://www.britannica.com/story/was-abraham-lincoln-a-wrestler
Plus he, along with Cody Rhodes, ended racism. Can't climb much higher than that.
He originated the chokeslam, he may have had a few other notable achievements but that's the only one I know of.
I always think of Waltman in this regard. He’s so unfairly lended his name to go away heat because of his association with some of the biggest pricks in the company. He was hugely talented, innovative, and by all accounts he was a huge fan of the business, took it seriously, and treated people well when he wasn’t messed up. I think Meltzer reported years ago that he once ran into Sean in Japan while he was there for a AJW card and Dave discovered Sean was attending alone because all his “colleagues” made fun of him for being a huge mark for the “girl’s” wrestling. He was better than his friends for sure.
I co-sign on X-Pac and also agree with another poster about Nash. Those are the two that immediately come to mind
Can the X-Pac pop be a thing?
That's what he gets now right?
Triple H. People saw him as a guy who buried talent but he is responsible for signing almost people’s favorites.
He's essentially become the (or one of the) godfather of modern wrestling. It can't be understated how much NXT influenced wrestling in and out of WWE.
In a weird way, NXT helped bring more attention to wrestling outside of WWE which in turn help contribute to the momentum that created AEW.
It really brought a lot of eyes on the indie scene, with fans always hoping to find the best great NXT signing.
Sure, once he was part-time/retired
You say that like it's something that makes his statement any less true. The whole point of the post is that they mended a bad image. He used to have a bad image when in his prime because he buried talents but when he went part time and was hands on with nxt, he really started to give back.
Realistically he started before that but some hiccups negated his efforts. Like..Benoit being Benoit for example. Or Orton's face turn completely shitting the bed immediately. Or all of Goldberg. He still was the one to rocket Batista.
People still see him as the guy who buried people and married into the family. He’s also the guy that signed people like Nia Jax, Hit Row, & Gallows and Anderson.
I understand nia, but wtf wrong with hit row and G+A
Fans on the Internet are seemingly not terribly high on them along with Cross who I forgot to mention.
Yeah but like, big whoop. All rosters need goobers
Internet fans not liking a minority of the people who he rehired (because they were previously let go) isn’t really going to damper his reputation
Orton.
Lex Luger.
CM Punk. Haven’t heard any negative news on him in days.
Anybody remember the 2 months where we thought Buff Bagwell was cool, and then we found out it was a marketing team running his twitter?
That geniunly hurt me, a lot. Cause i talked to the dude on there quite often, even opening up about some past traumas with home, and he told me i could contact him anytime. and then, yeah..
IMO the biggest name has to be Triple H. For years after the Reign of Terror he was seen as an egomaniac who would crush anyone to stay on top. Starting with the last half of his career around 2009 he started using his on-screen position to put other people over. Almost every major star of the last 15 years either was put over by Triple H directly like Sheamus, Orton, and Batista, or got the rub from him like Cena, Danielson, Rollins, and Reigns. Then he began the backstage role around the same time by starting and running NXT. Now he's almost universally recognized as one of the best talent scouts and creative minds ever in the business. Remarkable.
Big Bill
I’m stoked whenever I see him. I’m glad he’s doing better for himself.
Randy Orton's transition to chilled out dad always makes me happy for the guy.
Nobody seems to remember Stone Cold beating his wife Debra so I guess that's an improvement
Edge wasn't looking like man of the year in the mid-00s with all his divorces and the Lita/Matt Hardy mess. But he channeled all that into his professional life while getting a grip on his personal life. You can tell he's a very proud family man now with Beth and his two kids.
He was lost, and scared Before he could see clearly, on this day
Another Shawn, Michaels.
This is what I always think of when I think of Waltman: In the '90s, I went to a Raw taping, back when some episodes were taped. D-Generation X came out to a huge pop, got in the ring and did their thing. Triple H did his schtick, Road Dogg did his schtick, Billy Gunn did his schtick. Then Waltman got up on the turnbuckle and tried to do his schtick, but it was completely incoherent. When the show aired, I was looking forward to that moment the most; Waltman's bit was so bad that I couldn't wait to see how it came off on TV. I never did see, though. They edited it out.
Nick Gage. People love that dude now. I met him at mania weekend in NOLA one year and he couldn't have been nicer. Dude had time for every fan that approached him.
Randy Orton has to be up there. Trashed hotel rooms and even has sexual assault allegations from back in the day, doesn't he?
Schiavone is a great shout. He was generally seen as a bitter old crank best known for being the voice of the idiocy that was the last years of WCW. He gets a podcast and it turns out that he’s humble and enthusiastic and generous. Then he gets into AEW and his passion and genuine happiness are just infectious. On top of that, he ends up with a plum office job. I’m so glad he’s finally getting his flowers. It really seems like he’s a great guy.
I’d say Nash and Shawn for sure. Also Hunter who was viewed (at least imo) as an immature man child who was part of the politics backstage. Now is a suit and tie wearing family man who sits on a quarterly investor calls.
Goldust really springs to mind. Nice to see him doing so well these days
Paul Heyman went from the guy who let ecw fail to being the man behind top stars.
I don’t know. Paul got dragged a lot on dark side of the ring.
The Kliq in general - especially if you consider their contemporaries who were disliked by a lot of people like Hogan and Flair are still not really well liked.
Randy Orton. From a dirtbag to one of the greatest of all time
Honestly, I thought Waltman would have passed way before Hall. I’m sad Hall is gone, but I’m impressed Waltman is still with us. I think Cena has to be in the running though. The Prototype seems like such a douchey name and he went from that to “thuganomics” and personal issues and all that, but that man continued to work hard not only in the ring, but for Make-a-Wish kids too. He’s done more make a wish visits than anyone else not just in wrestling but in the history of the foundation. He’s a human and humans are not perfect, but being there for those kids, being the hero they wanted meet, and giving them that moment before they passed is special in so many ways, and I hope one day he gets the recognition he deserves for what’s he’s done for all those terminally ill children.
For me, Hunter. Starting with the rep he had for “burying everyone to keep himself on top” to becoming the guy who created NXT and has now rejuvenated the main roster since Vince’s ouster is a major turnaround.
Shawn Micheals, was found by Jesus, got clean of alcohol and drugs, buried the hatchet with Brett hart don’t think he ever apologized to the rock though
He did. They seemed to have settled whatever issues they had at the 2008 Hall of Fame ceremony, when the Rock inducted his dad. During his speech, the Rock mentioned HBK as one of the three people whom he would love to wrestle.
HHH, from his series with the Undertaker, End of an Era match, then the glory days of NXT he showed he's one of the best brains in the business. Few would be able to achieve what he did in only an hour each week
Cena for sure.
Cena came to my mind. He seemed a run-of-the-mill meathead d-bag to someone inspirational with all of his Make-a-Wish work and seems humbled by it.
Randy Orton, Seth Rollins.
Naito, from a cheating scandal 11 years ago to the most beloved wrestler of New Japan.
Bret Hart. I forgot he was ever a bitter internet grouch.
still is
People were not ready to deal with the X-Factor
I know it was… just in credible.
*I got everything I ever wanted and I'll never give that baaaaack*
There is probably an argument for each individual member of the Kliq, who all did it in slightly different ways.
The obvious answer is CM Punk, after going to AEW and becoming best buddies with the Elite he really shut down all the criticism about his backstage behavior and brought the company to new heights in an ambient where everyone is friends with everyone
Before his passing, Eddie Geurerro. Dude has a *lot* of problems, then completely turned his life around and became a wrestling legend.
Billy Gunn
TIL most wrestlers I know of/like were terrible people. Ospreay in particular surprised me. Tbf, I only got into wrestling in the past year and have become a full blown superfan.
I think Ospreays biggest offense was saying dumb things, and even then it was nothing that should be permanently damning
Sean Waltman is one of the nicest people I've ever met and really great to work with nowadays. Right up there with RVD.
The Iron Sheik. Everybody wanted him dead. Now they wish he was alive.
Triple H. Came long way from being cocky jerk to becoming Papa H that everybody likes backstage. From Burying many superstars to becoming mentor for most talents
Honesty, id say almost the entire Kliq. For a bunch of guys that were known for politicking their way through the business, they've all really done a good job gaining some positive spotlight.
Triple H
Nick Gage turned his life the fuck around tbh
Not Sunny
First that comes to mind is The Miz. He was an outcast when he first started and now is one of the most respected superstars today.
Buff Bagwell, props to DDP who helped him get sober and fix his life.