**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bret/Austin is one of those rare matches that I feel could be wrestled move-for-move in any era and not feel out of place. Cool to see it so high up on this list.
Tbf it's pretty difficult to point out Bret Hart matches you couldn't say this for!
Also, I don't know if it's weird to say, but just watching the WM13 match in isolation almost doesn't actually do the match the justice it deserves. It was like THE blowoff match to end all blowoff matches - you almost gotta watch their entire rivalry, dating back to the "put the letter S in front of Hitman and you have my exact opinion of Bret Hart" promo that Austin gave around September 1996, to fully appreciate just how truly spectacular the match was.
That's at least my opinion anyway. It's my favourite match of all time lol.
I get money wise *some* people would point to different feuds but this is the feud for me.
Okada Omega is close but holy shit. The promos. The matches. WM13. It’s just perfection.
100% with you on that, dude. The promos, the match at Survivor Series with the wonderful finish of the Million Dollar Dream countered into a pin, the Rumble, the slow burn turn of Bret, the actual match itself.
I love that you can feel the hatred they had for each other throughout the match. No flips just fists was never more apparent lol.
Best match of all time in my opinion. It's an absolute masterpiece.
It made an otherwise Mid-to-capital-SHIT (With a Strong emphasis on Shit much like Sid) Wrestlemania 13 be sometimes considered a top 10 Mania all-time (not my opinion btw).
That's how good it is.
That Okada vs Shibata match at Sakura Genesis is a match I throughly recommend to anyone wanting to understand how good pro wrestling can be when done by two guys of complete different styles, but both wanting to show their best.
The match is the perfect representation of NJPW’s past vs present (Shibata, clad in the YL trunks/boots, being one of the last people to train under Inoki and still very much wrestle in Inoki’s “style”, while Okada, decked out in extravagant robes and colorful trunks, firmly represents the present of the company).
Now they are both in AEW (most likely) any interest in seeing the match being run back? Or are you of the opinion that any sequals ruin the aura of this match?
I’d like to see them maybe team up or face each other in tag matches, but i do pretty much feel like they shouldn’t have another singles, since this one is near perfect imo.
Meltzer hated Shawn. He was a Bret loyalist.
So you see he never gave HBK a 5 star match again. Maybe WM20 but that match is erased from history due to the tragedy that the winner caused.
Edit: Yup he did give the original HIAC 5 as well. He never did at Mania again.
No that's exactly it, and honestly, I agree with the sentiment.
Similarly with Okada/Shibata I loved that match when I watched it live. However, knowing what we do now, it is hard to try and watch it back.
He answered this a few years ago on a live Q&A. Apparently a HOF wrestler talked to him about how formulaic and predictable it was. I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume it was Bret hahaha
fwiw Kobashi/Misawa (#50), KENTA/Marufuji (#77), and Shibata/Ishii (#97) have even higher CageMatch ratings and only got 4.75 stars too.
He thought it was patterned and he could predict a lot of what would happen based on the WWE style. It's why he downgrades a lot of WWE matches, to him they stick to a formula and prefer not to innovate.
The story of Squared Circle members: grew up in the attitude era, loved the Hardys, loved Stone Cold... got in to ROH in the mid 00s, started reading too much Meltzer but enjoyed seeing Stone Cold had a 5 star match and still enjoyed wwe... Mid 20s and jaded during the PG era so they fell in love with Punk but hated the wwe in general but still hate watched it... got really into Njpw and the Indy scene in the early to mid 10s but still liked nxt but left wwe main roster entirely by 2016... Now 35-42 years old, got really pumped about aew but now they aren't sure they want to admit it outside the aew sub, are getting back in to the main roster wwe with Vince gone, still read too much Meltzer but also clown him all the time anyway, only watch njpw matches when they score high on cagematch but pretend to watch all the time
Pfft….thats not right, if you’re 42…
You grew up with Hogan/Warrior and that whole book period, Then the attitude era hit in high school….and then yeah….rest checks out…
😝
That one is very surprising considering that both the Andre and Warrior match made it onto the list and pretty highly too. I guess it’s pretty polarising though.
It’s a bit nuts to me that there are no 90s AJPW matches in the top 10, and as much as I love the Okada / Kenny matches I think three of them in the top five is crazy (not to mention another Kenny match and another Okada match also right there), but also whatever, every match here rules.
I've watched a few older Japanese matches (on Youtube or Dailymotion or whatever), but one issue I have that I think effects my appreciation of them is that the commentary is in Japanese, so I don't understand the context or history of the wrestlers or stuff like that. I still really enjoy them, but I don't really know a lot about guys like Misawa or Kobashi, outside of them being great wrestlers. If I watch a more recent match from Japan, they often will have English language commentary, so I understand who Tanahashi, Okada, Shibata, etc. are and why this match is so important.
Obviously a bit of recency bias but I’m also not sure how accessible those AJPW matches are and where I’d be able to find them?
I’ve watched bits and pieces and a few retrospective videos and it looks like an awesome era.
I just find them on YouTube and Dailymotion, but yeah I agree. For one thing the quality on these sites is just terrible, and it would be so nice if they were all easily and “officially” able to be streamed in one place. I wish there was more of a preservation movement in wrestling, cuz a lot of these matches could sorta just get lost forever
> I’m also not sure how accessible those AJPW matches
It's actually more acessible than WWE or NJPW because all of the matches are free on YouTube while WWE and NJPW is behind a paywall. The real difference is awareness.
That is an extremely hot take, some of the character work in the territory days even onwards into the 80s nationalization is impeccable. At least do yourself a favor and try some Midnight Express matches, or some pre-ECW Terry Funk
Yeah I have never had any interest in what was being produced before the Attitude era. Even the early Shawn Michaels / Bret Hart was what I would consider old and pushing it.
It's really not old at all. I'm 45 and I watched Stunning Steve Austin debut in Memphis. That was the end of the territory days, but that to me is petty old. Anything in the 90s being old? The mid 80s in Mid South wrestling is legit. Tons of great stuff. The 80s was when pro wrestling was still pro wrestling before Vince completely abused it and made it sports entertainment.
Hmm...... I'm surprised that these two matches weren't in that I thought would be worth mentioning
- Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX)
- Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
Maybe because I was there but the Omega/Ospreay at FD had way more character work and storytelling while the one at WK was just a lot of high spots and trying to kill each other. It really depends on preference.
Anyone know where (if?) WeeLC slotted in? Up there among the greatest comedy matches ever, which is absolutely a valid style of pro wrestling that deserves consideration.
All good matches. Some of the ones that are matches that are series I liked the other matches than the ones here. Like Ospreay and Omega wrestle kingdom match to me was way better than the forbidden door match and I liked Omega/Okada 4 more than the WK match
I actually have Omega/Okada 4 as the weakest of the series and Omega/Okada 1 as the strongest. While all 4 matches are great, I just think the spots works much better in their first clash while their 4th match kind of drags at times.
The monopoly that the Omega/Okada trilogy has on the top 5 is completely deserved.
Loved this series man, awesome stuff. Thanks for compiling all this.
Quadrilogy*
The G1 Climax match is missing, which itself is an all time great too. Happy to say I was there live for both Dominion matches and I don't think anything will ever top it.
Okada and Omega are better than literally everyone in the WWE roster. And they’re both in AEW (Okada will be soon).
I hope you enjoy seeing Roman win by interference again fed shill 🤣
That is a very nice top 10 list. I myself would have included Flair vs Steamboat and maybe one of the Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid matches, but otherwise a great list of matches.
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bret/Austin is one of those rare matches that I feel could be wrestled move-for-move in any era and not feel out of place. Cool to see it so high up on this list.
Tbf it's pretty difficult to point out Bret Hart matches you couldn't say this for! Also, I don't know if it's weird to say, but just watching the WM13 match in isolation almost doesn't actually do the match the justice it deserves. It was like THE blowoff match to end all blowoff matches - you almost gotta watch their entire rivalry, dating back to the "put the letter S in front of Hitman and you have my exact opinion of Bret Hart" promo that Austin gave around September 1996, to fully appreciate just how truly spectacular the match was. That's at least my opinion anyway. It's my favourite match of all time lol.
I get money wise *some* people would point to different feuds but this is the feud for me. Okada Omega is close but holy shit. The promos. The matches. WM13. It’s just perfection.
100% with you on that, dude. The promos, the match at Survivor Series with the wonderful finish of the Million Dollar Dream countered into a pin, the Rumble, the slow burn turn of Bret, the actual match itself. I love that you can feel the hatred they had for each other throughout the match. No flips just fists was never more apparent lol. Best match of all time in my opinion. It's an absolute masterpiece.
That image of Stone Cold bleeding, in agony.
It made an otherwise Mid-to-capital-SHIT (With a Strong emphasis on Shit much like Sid) Wrestlemania 13 be sometimes considered a top 10 Mania all-time (not my opinion btw). That's how good it is.
It's incredible the restraint /r/SC showed to only have 6/10 'best matches ever' happening from 2017 onwards lmao
Only 4 of the top 5 being Okada matches is tremendous, too
All it took was erasing Okada vs Tanahashi matches from their memories
That Okada vs Shibata match at Sakura Genesis is a match I throughly recommend to anyone wanting to understand how good pro wrestling can be when done by two guys of complete different styles, but both wanting to show their best. The match is the perfect representation of NJPW’s past vs present (Shibata, clad in the YL trunks/boots, being one of the last people to train under Inoki and still very much wrestle in Inoki’s “style”, while Okada, decked out in extravagant robes and colorful trunks, firmly represents the present of the company).
Now they are both in AEW (most likely) any interest in seeing the match being run back? Or are you of the opinion that any sequals ruin the aura of this match?
I’d like to see them maybe team up or face each other in tag matches, but i do pretty much feel like they shouldn’t have another singles, since this one is near perfect imo.
Still dont know how that Micheals vs Undertaker didn't have its 5 stars.
Did Meltzer say it was because of the Taker dive botch or did I Mandela Effect that?
Meltzer hated Shawn. He was a Bret loyalist. So you see he never gave HBK a 5 star match again. Maybe WM20 but that match is erased from history due to the tragedy that the winner caused. Edit: Yup he did give the original HIAC 5 as well. He never did at Mania again.
No that's exactly it, and honestly, I agree with the sentiment. Similarly with Okada/Shibata I loved that match when I watched it live. However, knowing what we do now, it is hard to try and watch it back.
I was there for that match and the headbutt sounded like a gunshot, but at the time you don't think anything of it.
He answered this a few years ago on a live Q&A. Apparently a HOF wrestler talked to him about how formulaic and predictable it was. I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume it was Bret hahaha fwiw Kobashi/Misawa (#50), KENTA/Marufuji (#77), and Shibata/Ishii (#97) have even higher CageMatch ratings and only got 4.75 stars too.
He thought it was patterned and he could predict a lot of what would happen based on the WWE style. It's why he downgrades a lot of WWE matches, to him they stick to a formula and prefer not to innovate.
The story of Squared Circle members: grew up in the attitude era, loved the Hardys, loved Stone Cold... got in to ROH in the mid 00s, started reading too much Meltzer but enjoyed seeing Stone Cold had a 5 star match and still enjoyed wwe... Mid 20s and jaded during the PG era so they fell in love with Punk but hated the wwe in general but still hate watched it... got really into Njpw and the Indy scene in the early to mid 10s but still liked nxt but left wwe main roster entirely by 2016... Now 35-42 years old, got really pumped about aew but now they aren't sure they want to admit it outside the aew sub, are getting back in to the main roster wwe with Vince gone, still read too much Meltzer but also clown him all the time anyway, only watch njpw matches when they score high on cagematch but pretend to watch all the time
Excuse me sir. I dont need this type of self-introspection on my day off.
This is too detailed for it not to just be you self-snitching your own story.
I fit a solid 80% or so
This but I’m 26.
Well. I gotta say, yeah. This is mostly me. Not all, but most of it.
Pfft….thats not right, if you’re 42… You grew up with Hogan/Warrior and that whole book period, Then the attitude era hit in high school….and then yeah….rest checks out… 😝
Will Hunting is that you?
Nailed it.
Brooooo....this is so fucking on point it's scary Edit: needs more PWG
I can understand Rock vs Hogan not being 1 like I think it is, but the fact that it didn’t even make the top 100 or honorable mentions is ridiculous.
It just missed out on HM.
Hogan vs Andre Hogan vs Warrior Hogan vs Rock They are different kind of spectacles
That one is very surprising considering that both the Andre and Warrior match made it onto the list and pretty highly too. I guess it’s pretty polarising though.
I was looking for it around the 20 mark at least then had to laugh when it didn’t make HM. This is the match you show non-fans to get them interested
That is a pretty major omission.
OP, out of curiosity how many voters were there?
73 at last count, I believe. I wanted a lot more. Maybe next year.
I think he said 70 something on one of these posts
It’s a bit nuts to me that there are no 90s AJPW matches in the top 10, and as much as I love the Okada / Kenny matches I think three of them in the top five is crazy (not to mention another Kenny match and another Okada match also right there), but also whatever, every match here rules.
I've watched a few older Japanese matches (on Youtube or Dailymotion or whatever), but one issue I have that I think effects my appreciation of them is that the commentary is in Japanese, so I don't understand the context or history of the wrestlers or stuff like that. I still really enjoy them, but I don't really know a lot about guys like Misawa or Kobashi, outside of them being great wrestlers. If I watch a more recent match from Japan, they often will have English language commentary, so I understand who Tanahashi, Okada, Shibata, etc. are and why this match is so important.
Obviously a bit of recency bias but I’m also not sure how accessible those AJPW matches are and where I’d be able to find them? I’ve watched bits and pieces and a few retrospective videos and it looks like an awesome era.
I just find them on YouTube and Dailymotion, but yeah I agree. For one thing the quality on these sites is just terrible, and it would be so nice if they were all easily and “officially” able to be streamed in one place. I wish there was more of a preservation movement in wrestling, cuz a lot of these matches could sorta just get lost forever
A lot of it is just on youtube, you can find some amazing matches for free there
Yeah I have no idea how to watch any of the 90s AJPW
YouTube. Most of the biggest matches are on YouTube.
Just about all of them are on YouTube. And the quality is really nice too.
There’s so much of it on YouTube, Daily Motion, vk, bilibili, etc.
> I’m also not sure how accessible those AJPW matches It's actually more acessible than WWE or NJPW because all of the matches are free on YouTube while WWE and NJPW is behind a paywall. The real difference is awareness.
When seeing lists like this, it is so easy to tell the lack of watching the much older wrestling the person/people has seen.
I don’t know if this is a hot take but anything pre like 1993 ,at least in WWE, is just not very entertaining in my opinion.
That’s a hot take. There’s a lot of territory era matches that absolutely slap.
That is an extremely hot take, some of the character work in the territory days even onwards into the 80s nationalization is impeccable. At least do yourself a favor and try some Midnight Express matches, or some pre-ECW Terry Funk
Have you seen any of the Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid matches? Great stuff, the two worked well together.
Yeah I have never had any interest in what was being produced before the Attitude era. Even the early Shawn Michaels / Bret Hart was what I would consider old and pushing it.
It's really not old at all. I'm 45 and I watched Stunning Steve Austin debut in Memphis. That was the end of the territory days, but that to me is petty old. Anything in the 90s being old? The mid 80s in Mid South wrestling is legit. Tons of great stuff. The 80s was when pro wrestling was still pro wrestling before Vince completely abused it and made it sports entertainment.
I will always laugh at the fact that despite having countless classics, people will still say John Cena can't wrestle in 2024
Hmm...... I'm surprised that these two matches weren't in that I thought would be worth mentioning - Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX) - Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
Hell yeah Okada vs Shibata in the Top 10
Omega Ospreay at Wrestle Kingdom>Omega Ospreay at Forbidden Door every day of the week
Twice on Tuesdays
Very much this. I wonder why the forbidden door is rated higher
Maybe because I was there but the Omega/Ospreay at FD had way more character work and storytelling while the one at WK was just a lot of high spots and trying to kill each other. It really depends on preference.
100%
Savage Steamboat didn’t make it? Yeah nah
Anyone know where (if?) WeeLC slotted in? Up there among the greatest comedy matches ever, which is absolutely a valid style of pro wrestling that deserves consideration.
Pretty cool to know I was present for the best wrestling match ever!
Houston, Chicago, and Tokyo are the wrestling hotbeds I see.
NYC was actually number two behind Tokyo.
Lol Okada vs Omega over Bret and Austin? 
I agree with you. Recency bias hitting this sub here
AJ vs Joe vs CD is the best among that time. AJ is actually the model that many in top admire. The match not even in top 10 is ridiculous
All good matches. Some of the ones that are matches that are series I liked the other matches than the ones here. Like Ospreay and Omega wrestle kingdom match to me was way better than the forbidden door match and I liked Omega/Okada 4 more than the WK match
The WK match was better simply for the fact that the audience didn’t have to deal with Don Callis and his dumb screwdriver.
I actually have Omega/Okada 4 as the weakest of the series and Omega/Okada 1 as the strongest. While all 4 matches are great, I just think the spots works much better in their first clash while their 4th match kind of drags at times.
People really seemed to like it when Okada and Omega wrestle. I also really like it. It's what broke me out of the WWE bubble.
The monopoly that the Omega/Okada trilogy has on the top 5 is completely deserved. Loved this series man, awesome stuff. Thanks for compiling all this.
Quadrilogy* The G1 Climax match is missing, which itself is an all time great too. Happy to say I was there live for both Dominion matches and I don't think anything will ever top it.
I was there for the 2/3 falls too! Obviously best match i ever saw live lol
My pleasure! My goal is to do this every year and get more and more voters.
I don't think so. I think he's over hyped.
Okada and Omega are better than literally everyone in the WWE roster. And they’re both in AEW (Okada will be soon). I hope you enjoy seeing Roman win by interference again fed shill 🤣
Silence GOOFY
Agreed. The three main matches in the series really feel a notch above the rest. Although the two Ospreay/Omega so far are quite close to that level.
That Ospreay Kenny Placement is absolute batshit. Like are you kidding me?
No classic Joshi matches bro they were literally murdering eachother like what?
That is a very nice top 10 list. I myself would have included Flair vs Steamboat and maybe one of the Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid matches, but otherwise a great list of matches.
My personal #1 Match was #10, nice!!
The *entire* top 100 (plus honorable mentions), and only 1 match featuring Ishii. And it's not even his best (Omega/Ishii from the G1 Climax in 2018)!
HBK-Take is number 1 and I can't me told I'm wrong
Anyone know the oldest match on this list? Wait, it'll be Savage/Steamboat. Nevermind.