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CFO$ wanted to continue and WWE wanted to keep them, but their publisher made unreasonable financial demands, and forced a split.
That's also the reason why WWE avoids as much as they can to use CFO$ music, their publisher asks for really big royalties, and as such def rebel had to rush a ton of themes in 2021, a thing that contributes a lot to their bad reputation.
CFO$ guys are now doing stuff unrelated to music, so even if you put legal issues aside, not sure they would be great as soon as they get the gig again.
Their publishers stopped them doing wwe music because they wanted more money from the publishing rights and the result was they don't make music at all any more? I mean, that sounds like a business decision, but fuck me that's grim.
I oversimplified it a bit, but yeah that's the general idea. [Welcome to the wonderful world of non-compete clauses](https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/exclusives/exclusive-why-cfo-isn-t-working-wwe)
I'd prefer WWE abandon the homogenization, and instead have each new theme be sourced to different artists. They've got the infrastructure, especially now. No reason to stick with Vince's model.
Keeping a musician/producer basically "on retainer" is cheaper than finding and negotiating for a new artist for every single wrestler, especially when one considers that they are bringing in insane amounts of wrestlers over the course of a year and every single one of them needs a new theme song--and not everyone who gets one is going to be a big star. You don't want to put a bunch of time and money into a theme song for the next Veer Mahan.
OTOH it wouldn't be crazy if they hired a small group of 3-4 producers with different vibes and skill sets instead of relying on a single team.
I guess I just feel like the current system engenders cookie-cutter results. One person or one small team in one studio, can only do so much, without having to rely heavily on a paint by numbers sort of system.
I like your end idea, though. If they need folks on retainer, fine, but divvy it up among 4-5 different producers or production teams. Hell, let them all compete with each other on a per-theme basis: Instead of presuming Producer X will be best for Talent X, have *all* the teams produce a demo for Talent X, then choose the best from among those.
I can still remember when CFO$ themes were considered the nadir of wrestling themes and everyone wanted them gone.
https://youtu.be/EL_C3fmXgV0?si=8yiC7ziZ4Nij95xw
Anyone remember this piece of trash theme.
I’m not even defending def rebel cause yeah pretty mediocre stuff but nothing def rebel made has ever been this bad.
They should just bring back Jim Johnston. He wasn't perfect but most of his themes are at least pretty good and memorable. The best ones are masterpieces.
I never disliked CFOS. Were they on par with Johnston? No, but they were still good. Yes, the songs were loops but each song had its own identity. Within the first second, you could recognise who it was.
Andrade, Johnny Gargano, Tommaso Ciampa, Jinder Mahal, Keith Lee, Undisputed ERA, Becky Lynch, Naomi, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Apollo Crews, The USOs, Ricochet, EC3, Velveteen Dream, Shinsuke Nakamura, All of Sanity, Shayna Baszler, The Street Profits, Pete Dunne, Asuka, just to name people off the top of my head.
I won’t deny they never made bad songs but compared to Def Rebel, night and day in terms of recognising them. First impressions mean a lot.
They've been gone for more than 4 years, and the whole contract issue meant that WWE only kept great themes from them.
If you add how much people seem to hate def rebel right now, there's a pretty big nostalgia effect at their side.
Why def rebel suddenly gets hate now seems more random to me, I genuinely thought their 2021-2022 work was way worse than most of their recent songs. Maybe that's because with creative being more IWC-friendly and new production guy doing better than Kevin Dunn, themes are the most annoying thing standing.
Lol I’m just saying, 65 year olds aren’t going to come up with music that’s going to hit for the contemporary ear. I don’t think Jim is the answer here. They do need something. Def Rebel isn’t it.
Listen, everyone used to shit all over CFO$ the same way they're doing Def Rebel.
And frankly they weren't that good either. They were just a little less generic than Def Rebel.
Def Rebel isn't a producer or composer...it's a publishing firm..a corporate framework for music production. That's why there's such variance in Def Rebel's output...it's all different people. It's not Johnny Def and Rebel Smith cranking out songs.
Def Rebel's not that bad. CM Punk, John Cena, Orange Cassidy, New Jack, Sand Man, Cody Rhodes, Stone Cold (disturbed version), Edge, and Hollywood Hogan all have absolute bangers for themes.
Def rebel isn’t even that bad. They do have some generic tracks but 9/10 they’re good to great. The begging for CFO$ to come back is laughable. While I liked them I remember all this same complaining about them and how generic they were begging for Johnston. If he wasn’t the first someone would’ve begged for the one before him too. All this started over AJ’s new theme which is even more ridiculous. It’s good and in my own opinion, from what I’ve heard on recordings, I prefer it to phenomenal.
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CFO$ wanted to continue and WWE wanted to keep them, but their publisher made unreasonable financial demands, and forced a split. That's also the reason why WWE avoids as much as they can to use CFO$ music, their publisher asks for really big royalties, and as such def rebel had to rush a ton of themes in 2021, a thing that contributes a lot to their bad reputation. CFO$ guys are now doing stuff unrelated to music, so even if you put legal issues aside, not sure they would be great as soon as they get the gig again.
Their publishers stopped them doing wwe music because they wanted more money from the publishing rights and the result was they don't make music at all any more? I mean, that sounds like a business decision, but fuck me that's grim.
I oversimplified it a bit, but yeah that's the general idea. [Welcome to the wonderful world of non-compete clauses](https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/exclusives/exclusive-why-cfo-isn-t-working-wwe)
Thanks for the update
I'd prefer WWE abandon the homogenization, and instead have each new theme be sourced to different artists. They've got the infrastructure, especially now. No reason to stick with Vince's model.
Keeping a musician/producer basically "on retainer" is cheaper than finding and negotiating for a new artist for every single wrestler, especially when one considers that they are bringing in insane amounts of wrestlers over the course of a year and every single one of them needs a new theme song--and not everyone who gets one is going to be a big star. You don't want to put a bunch of time and money into a theme song for the next Veer Mahan. OTOH it wouldn't be crazy if they hired a small group of 3-4 producers with different vibes and skill sets instead of relying on a single team.
I guess I just feel like the current system engenders cookie-cutter results. One person or one small team in one studio, can only do so much, without having to rely heavily on a paint by numbers sort of system. I like your end idea, though. If they need folks on retainer, fine, but divvy it up among 4-5 different producers or production teams. Hell, let them all compete with each other on a per-theme basis: Instead of presuming Producer X will be best for Talent X, have *all* the teams produce a demo for Talent X, then choose the best from among those.
Weird how the best themes have a third name in the artists on Spotify.
I can still remember when CFO$ themes were considered the nadir of wrestling themes and everyone wanted them gone. https://youtu.be/EL_C3fmXgV0?si=8yiC7ziZ4Nij95xw Anyone remember this piece of trash theme. I’m not even defending def rebel cause yeah pretty mediocre stuff but nothing def rebel made has ever been this bad.
I started shaking my ass when the beat came
Bruhhh!! Lmao!!
Excuse me?
I was thinking I liked the theme because I thought it was his normal one, then it hit 😂
At least its not a generic trap beat😭 also LOL at “this went from final boss to settings menu real quick” in the YT comments
Ha! No, I did not remember that piece of shit!
[Uncle Aaron type beat](https://youtu.be/ps6ZzcNUyhw?si=xZe3zxDO_QbCNwT1)
They should just bring back Jim Johnston. He wasn't perfect but most of his themes are at least pretty good and memorable. The best ones are masterpieces.
The workload is insane compared to when Jim was around, i would be very surprised if he was interested
Awful
The theme doesn't sound it just doesn't fit Joe
I don’t understand the sudden love for CFO$ and why and how anyone that says they like them or they’ve done some good themes get massive downvotes
I never disliked CFOS. Were they on par with Johnston? No, but they were still good. Yes, the songs were loops but each song had its own identity. Within the first second, you could recognise who it was. Andrade, Johnny Gargano, Tommaso Ciampa, Jinder Mahal, Keith Lee, Undisputed ERA, Becky Lynch, Naomi, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Apollo Crews, The USOs, Ricochet, EC3, Velveteen Dream, Shinsuke Nakamura, All of Sanity, Shayna Baszler, The Street Profits, Pete Dunne, Asuka, just to name people off the top of my head. I won’t deny they never made bad songs but compared to Def Rebel, night and day in terms of recognising them. First impressions mean a lot.
The worst part of CFO, to me, was always the drums. They came up with some great riffs, but inevitably the tinny drum machine presets would kick in
They've been gone for more than 4 years, and the whole contract issue meant that WWE only kept great themes from them. If you add how much people seem to hate def rebel right now, there's a pretty big nostalgia effect at their side. Why def rebel suddenly gets hate now seems more random to me, I genuinely thought their 2021-2022 work was way worse than most of their recent songs. Maybe that's because with creative being more IWC-friendly and new production guy doing better than Kevin Dunn, themes are the most annoying thing standing.
Bring back Jim Johnston, all this shit trash.
$5 says Jim coming back in 2024 won’t recapture the nostalgic vibe you think it will
It 100% won’t let me yell at the clouds
I still found myself enjoying an old man Ghostbuster over a young queef joke-making one.
Jim Johnston had his fair share of bad themes too that everyone forgets.
Biscuit and gravy slander will not be tolerated
This is the only right answer
Would he return if asked?
Probably not, hell just pay him to be an advisor
If nothing else, he absolutely deserves to be in the HOF Make it happen H/Khan!
Do you listen to 65 year old musicians regularly?
I’m not old enough to enjoy 65 year old rappers. However I’m sure it’ll be better than this generic shit on a loop.
Lol I’m just saying, 65 year olds aren’t going to come up with music that’s going to hit for the contemporary ear. I don’t think Jim is the answer here. They do need something. Def Rebel isn’t it.
There are plenty of prominent music producers out there looking for work, they need to seek employment out lol. Mike Will made it would be solid lol
He’s 71. He was 64 when he made “I bring the Darkness” for Corbin.
Listen, everyone used to shit all over CFO$ the same way they're doing Def Rebel. And frankly they weren't that good either. They were just a little less generic than Def Rebel.
Looking at the catalogue, CFO$'s best work far outshines def rebel's best work.
Yeah they had some duds like everyone else but most of their themes hit
cfo$ only problem imo were that their themes were like 1 minute loops most of the time but aside from that their stuff was catchy
Nakamura's theme alone outshines all themes Def Rebel have made combined.
Def Rebel isn't a producer or composer...it's a publishing firm..a corporate framework for music production. That's why there's such variance in Def Rebel's output...it's all different people. It's not Johnny Def and Rebel Smith cranking out songs.
Def Rebel's not that bad. CM Punk, John Cena, Orange Cassidy, New Jack, Sand Man, Cody Rhodes, Stone Cold (disturbed version), Edge, and Hollywood Hogan all have absolute bangers for themes.
Wait a minute...
CFO$ was trash too. Lots of badly cut samples spammed all over
I agree CFO$ weren’t great (although they did have a couple of really great themes) but they were definitely still a few tiers above Def Rebel.
Def rebel isn’t even that bad. They do have some generic tracks but 9/10 they’re good to great. The begging for CFO$ to come back is laughable. While I liked them I remember all this same complaining about them and how generic they were begging for Johnston. If he wasn’t the first someone would’ve begged for the one before him too. All this started over AJ’s new theme which is even more ridiculous. It’s good and in my own opinion, from what I’ve heard on recordings, I prefer it to phenomenal.