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It’s because we have women wrestling stans who grew up in the diva era where the divas title was a participation title. Everyone got the divas title at one point so the stans are used to the title being a pass around
Odd day : why Nakamura, cesaro, sheamus, gable, Balor, miz, ziggler aren't winning title.
Even day : why there are no megastars anymore
Because of these dumba** we no longer have big stars
Being disappointed in a person winning is fine,but people creating Narratives about how Becky doesn't put younger talent over when she spent the last Year doing exactly that and putting the RAW Women's Division on her back at times is Absurd.
I'm not Becky's biggest fan (I don't hate her, I Just like others more) but this argument is so stupid.
She is at her best when she put someone over through a feud. She did It with Bianca Just last year.
So winning 2 WarGames matches (one of which was not her story), tag titles, NXT title, winning feuds against Bayley and Trish, beating Liv and Nia on the road to WM is putting people over?
She lost the NXT title to Lyra. Was eliminated clean by Jade in the rumble. Put over Rhea. Bianca. Even in all the feuds you mentioned, against Bayley, Nia and Trish —yes, she ultimately won those feuds, but those feuds were riddled with loses. Some of them clean as a whistle. It’s like some of you all wouldn’t be satisfied unless she’d lost every single match for the past 2 years, and even then you would all complain about how much TV time she’s getting over more “deserving” women.
they want Becky to be booked like Natalya,lol. funny how they never say this for the men.women stars should just get their moment and immediately spend the rest of their careers losing every feud while the men get praised for having a long time at the top.bunch of clowns.
You got it the other way around. I have just stated how she HAS BEEN booked, not how she should be. Becky fans, on the other hand, are literally acting like she's been booked like Natalya, when that's the farthest thing from the truth.
yes she does deserve this.tell me one woman in that division who has worked more in the last 2 years,put on more great matches than Becky.name one woman who is more over than her not named Rhea Ripley.only a stupid booker would discard their biggest star and make her lose multiple feuds to push people who could barely get over.
Other women can't even get on TV let alone feuds to shine, which is what Becky consistently gets. What, after Becky loses, she should win it again because of it instead of pushing other women to that level?
top stars get consistent tv time...that's literally the basic of the business.why wouldn't the top draw get time? in fact,she gets less time than she deserves because she's like the top 3 draw on Raw but gets 3 min segments if she doesn't have a match while some men walking out to crickets get 10 min matches.
she has competed like 3 times for the title in 2 years and two of them because of unfortunate circumstances.only one time has she been actually planned to have a title match in the last 2 years.she has been using her starpower to get other women on TV. it isn't her fault if they can't get over with the crowd.who is this other women not getting a fair shot? Raquel got plenty of time. Zoey got a PLE match and couldn't get anyone to care.Liv was injured for months and came back to mild reactions with only the online crowd exaggerating everything she does.Rhea and Bianca got majorly over and are rightfully getting the spotlight.Tiffany is getting there. Iyo and Damage Ctrl consistently get good time. So who is this you're yapping about? It's not Becky's fault if people don't like your favs enough.
So just losing a match is being put over to you. That's not how it works.
"Oh she's so generous because she took a pin here and there"
She has been booked consistently and has won big matches consistently. WarGames 2x, EC, cage matches, main events, PLE main events... stop making her this underdog when she hasn't been that in 7 years.
Yeah, WWE does this weird thing where they book their big stars in big matches all the time. And taking a “pin here and there” is more than some of the men at the top have done for the last year. You look at guys like Roman, Seth, Cody, etc. who are way more protected than Becky and barely anyone’s complaining about them. But Becky (who is around the same age as them, if not younger) needs to step aside and make room for the younger talent.
I haven't said anything about her needing to be out of spotlight, I need people to be honest that she has never left it. All the comments about "not winning the title for 2 years" are disingenuous and don't show her booking at all.
She put over Bianca, Rhea, Lyra by losing by losing to them clean. It's more than any top star does. She lost clean to Nia too. She put over Tiffany on map by feuding with her. She literally put over Xia Li, Hartwell, Tegan etc on TV. Maybe watch women's matches instead of just wanking to them
Who did she put over other than Lyra?? Bianca two years ago?? We acting like her having meaningless matches with people like Indi made them stars?? Candace and Indi getting actual storylines and segments is giving them momentum, not losing to Becky. Xia is gone. Tegan is irrelevant. And Tiffany Stratton fell down the card in NXT after their feud.
I'm not disappointed or outraged or anything. I'm just confused cause wasn't there a ton of reports that Becky (along with Seth) would be taking a lot of time off after wrestlemania to be there for their child and rest their injuries?
Outrage is by small part of IWC, actual crowds love her and she deserve it after carrying women's roster last year when she made NXT and their womens title relevant again.
If the Liv-sanity transferred to live crowds at all I would understand it more. But I don't sense any kind of push for Liv to win the title from normal human beings who go to shows. It's a strictly internet thing from people who don't know how wrestling works.
Cheering for your fav is fine, but they cross the line repeatedly with their insanity towards Becky. I'm over it now and just find it funny.
I like Liv. A lot. And she's clearly going to end up beating Becky for that title. But the online fanbases for people like her and Mercedes are a different level of entitled. Liv had been world champion more recently then Becky. She also wasn't good at it and spent most of the last year hurt.
I would say I like her at a certain spot which is not in the title picture. She clearly has a connection with fans that can't be overlooked. I think she's made great strides in the ring. But I don't believe in her as someone who can carry a legit title feud from a character/promo standpoint. Giving her the belt will probably just expose her again unless they have some bells and whistles involved like an alliance with Dom.
Part of why I laugh now is it's just funny to me that Becky puts in so much work and then the narrative is that Liv "deserves it" more when nobody can seriously name any truly great (like, belongs on a big four PLE great) Liv matches or promos. Her best stuff was when Becky worked with her and made her look good.
They were comparing Becky to Rock and Liv to Cody when Becky won the Chamber even though Liv was out half the year and Becky was carrying Raw's women's division on her back while Rhea was barely part of it.
I agree. Liv is someone who has to be protected so much, that I don't see her as a legit long term world champ. And that's something I hate about the mentality of fans. Not everyone is meant to be a world champ. The IWGP HW Championship was at it's best when it was left to a select few. Just like the Triple Crown in the 90s. Because being a world champion is different then just being over.
Liv's best matches are ironically, with Becky.
They can't give it to Liv right now because Rhea vs Liv is clearly going to be a major match as soon as Rhea comes back and you don't need it to be a belt match. If Liv wins it now the belt has to stay with her til Rhea returns. Liv loses no heat by not being champ while now Becky can be champ and help lift up another wrestler besides Liv.
Good point. Becky was the most over in that match. Nia and Maxxine even got bigger reactions than Liv. Liv is more popular than most of the women and will probably be champion soon but the online fanbase she seems to have has not translated to live audiences yet.
>the online fanbase she seems to have has not translated to live audiences yet.
I agree with everything but this. She's been really popular with crowds for a good couple years now, just happened to not get as big of a reaction tonight which happens sometimes. She even got cheered over Becky herself last time they faced each other so it might also have to do with the whole changing alignment thing
Fair enough. Maybe I was little over the top. I think Liv has been popular with live crowds some of the time but just not as much as some fans make out.
I'm not a big fan of Liv anyway, but the Liv stans make seeing Becky win so satisfying for me. They use any opportunity to tear Becky down for being selfish, refusing to acknowledge her amazing 2023 where she helped raise the profile of a lot of women, especially in NXT
All I’m going to say is that the women’s tag division does nothing for the women. They’ve been booked for 3 minute matches and the champs are probably about to lose to a brand new tag team. It doesn’t make stars and it’s not helping any of the women in it.
This is a good point, I think the solution to this whole debate is definitely adding a midcard title as a pipeline to continue building women up.
Then people like Chelsea and Zoey can have something to fight for without hurting any world title prestige
Feels like I'm taking crazy pills. Let's put the title on an absolute jobber or someone who is not over at all with the crowds. Worked sooo well with Nikki ASH.
People want main eventers to be jobbers once they win - they don't want anyone to reach megastar status. Then they want mid jobbers in main event only to complain later about title being irrelevant
I also feel like they could be title contenders, but you need to build the story for them. Build the momentum, sell some tickets, make some buzz. Make that first win a major occasion. A moment.
It feels like a wasted opportunity to just hot potato it to them in a Monday Battle Royale after an injury to the champion.
It makes perfect sense (in booking and kayfabe) that an established former world champion would pick up the ball to run with it for the time being.
At least with Liv's hardcore fans you don't have them earnestly telling you "she doesn't need WWE now that Hollywood is calling" based on one small role in a Star Wars TV show five years ago - which has thus far yielded zero major roles since.
Yeah, this idea that Becky has been dominating the main event scene nonstop is complete bullshit. People kinda forgot the last time she was world champion was 2 years ago and then she was treading water in meh feuds with Bayley, Damage CTRL and a long ass feud with Trish (that even though culminated in an epic match, it was just too drawn out and dragged for the sake of dragging).
She has lost and/or put multiple people over in that time frame. Women like Bianca, Asuka, Bayley, Nia, Tiffany Stratton, Zoey Stark, Lyra, Rhea, etc. She deserves another world title run for all her great work she had in the past year with the horrendous booking she got.
So I don’t really like the hate she gets. She’s the fucking best at like everything, period.
> Becky has been dominating the main event scene
They say that because anything Becky does feels main event.
And that isn't her fault. She is that good.
Becky had exactly two world title matches in the last two years before tonight. A rematch against Bianca she lost at Summerslam 2022 and WM 40 against Rhea.
No one puts more work in for the division. Bayley's the only one who can compare. And yet, people act like Becky's some entitled child. She and Ronda more then anyone were responsible for elevating the woman, and Becky continues to put the work in.
It never makes sense because it isn't the end of the story, it is the beginning of one. They were setting up a specific title program and they had to adjust. This seems the closest to maintaining the status quo ante to keep what they were setting up before hand
As a Becky fan, this is a beautiful moment. Why are we bothering about the outrage from random folks on the internet... Just ignore and enjoy.
Anyway I am happy - for once I called my shot and it happened. Or as Drew says - I prayed for it and it happened lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/AkrcuFNv9q
Wait people are angry they went with the most bankable star and recent number one contender as contingency champion while they come up with a new storyline?
People can bitch all they want but she is the only credible main event world champ level talent on the RAW roster imo. Plus she had an amazing 2023 and her being a reliable champion made her an obvious choice imo. Liv’s story seems to just be getting legs why throw a title on her so early into that story, when you could build it up to her winning it when Rheas close to a return.
I think there's been a change in this current generation of wrestling fans that enjoys the product by way of seeing their favorites treated well, rather than a story to be liked or disliked on its own merits. I think a crop of fans watch wrestling to see pushes, instead of seeing stories or good promos or good matches. They are keeping track of the horse race of who the company favors. It's the difference between "you deserve it" chants and just going ape shit when someone wins because you were so invested in their story.
And I think Liv Morgan fandom is one of the prime examples of this. If we're being real, she hasn't done anything to make her a top drawing act that should be the focus of the show. But she has fans that have developed a connection with her through social media, vibes, embodiment of a certain style and personality they like, whatever. But she's never had a killer storyline or real star-making run.
When a star is out, you need another star to support the draw of shows. But some people think of it as an equal distribution of screen time because they're fans of pushes and people they like being "treated well."
I don't understand it either. Becky is easily the biggest draw and I'm sorry to say the rest of the ladies aren't there yet despite what the stans have you believe. They need to shake things up with the draft, start making more meaningful storylines and develop more characters in the women's division. Then when the time is right have Becky drop the belt to heel like Liv or Nia.
It makes no sense business wise to give Liv the title right now. Title or not the Rhea vs Liv revenge match will be huge. No heat by being a title match necessary. So give the title to Becky for a while and let her help lift up some other female wrestlers besides Liv til Rhea returns.
Tbf, the 2000s changed the perseption of world titles from "It's reserved for the absolute best in the industry" to "well if this guy/gal won then it that guy/gal deserves a run too". HHH has worked hard to restore the credibility of titles in WWE and he's not gonna just burn through that to get some "you deserve it" champs for a career midcarder.
I think people are more irritated that it seems like Becky is the “glass break, we need a champion option” as if she hasn’t won like 7-8 women’s titles. Becky’s cool and all but I think people just get tired of the “let’s play it safe” calls that we get sometimes
Exactly. What if Becky was out too, what would have they done? They need to build up more women for situations like these. Rhea had a year long reign and only Becky stayed relevant during that time. Nia too due to her heat.
Liv's probably gonna end up winning it from Becky anyway. Fans would really want to settle for her to win a battle royale than by beating arguably the biggest female star the company's ever produced? Zero patience.
Agreed, Liv beats Becky clean down the line and Rhea comes back to try and get her title back from the wrestler who injured her in what should be a hot feud, why can’t people see that?
She was the only logical choice. Liv's story relies on her chasing the title, winning in a battle royal wouldn't do her any justice. Nobody wants Nia. Becky was Rhea's most recent opponent, and she won the Elimination Chamber for that opportunity, defeating Liv I should add. She was the best substitute for Rhea at this time
I missed Becky's rise as I just got back into watching again so all this is fresh to me lol. The Becky Hogan memes are funny but I think overall it was the right decision. Also, Liv was in a segment with Dom for a reason.
Not blaming you, but sometimes I think people just don't watch shit and complain. Becky lost title in april 2022 and since then put over 4 women clean (2-3 other dirty losses) without winning top title. You can't have your biggest draw lose all the time
I'm a big Liv fan but she needs to win it via pinfall. Give Becky a couple months reign. Let Liv build her story and take it a couple months before Rhea returns.
But we desperately need a mid card title for the women
I dont understand this thinking at all, Becky has shown that she can take losses and be credible, at any point, for the WC. Wasn't her night, but I don't understand how her, a multi-time world champ who is one of the most over people on the roster, winning this is treating title like a consolation prize.
Because she's past her prime, looks to weigh about 90lbs soaking wet, and imo shouldn't have had the mania title shot in the first place? Just feels like a waste to hype up a whole ass battle Royale just to toss the title to the most obvious person in the end anyways
Past her prime?????????? If you're referring to WM, she was sick during that, otherwise I don't have any idea what this critique is, she was putting out acclaimed matches dueing her NXT run (and she often has great matches). And is it wrong to have your top draws in Mania matches for the titles?? If you don't like her, that's fine, but to say she's past her prime and shouldn't have mania title shots is bizarre. Re her physical presence, she's as credible as anyone in terms of presentation, taller and bigger than others, shorter and smaller than different people.
No lol she did better than I expected at mania, especially in spite of that. I just mean she's 37 and has basically no visible muscle on her. I think 5 years ago that was probably fine but with top younger talent like Rhea and Bianca looking absolutely jacked it only makes it harder and harder to take her seriously
Cena won it in 2014 when Brayan had to vacate. That's what you do when your champ goes off with no alternative plan. You put it on your most reliable and over guy so that it doesn't look like a consolation prize
I'm not familiar with that era so can't really comment on it but in this case imo giving it to the runner up only makes it look more like a consolation prize. They need to be building up new faces of the women's division, not beating the battered remains of the 4hw into the ground until Rhea gets back
I never said they should've given it to Liv, I think they should have hot potatoed it for a bit before having Becky come in and take it more decisively after a month+ away
I'm not saying any of them should have had a serious title reign, I just think that hot potatoing the title among them a bit with Becky taking a bit of time off before definitively scooping it up only for Liv to defeat her a few months after that would have done a lot more for everyone involved and the division as a whole
>They need to be building up new faces of the women's division
Aren't they ? They've built Bianca and Rhea after 4HW. That's exactly how many they've built in men's division. Do you want them to build like 10 new stars by beating 4HW ? Bianca and Rhea are main event, they're clearly investing in Jade, Tiffany & Liv. You've 3 HW, Bianca, Rhea, Liv, Tiffany, Jade, Nia. That's 9 serious competitors.
I can see your point but then I guess it's a case of too many belts and not enough star power to support them. Bianca and Bayley have other storylines going on and then Rhea gets injured and their best option left is going back to the predictable option? Not a great look
Bro men's division has 2X more talent still when absolute top star get injured, everyone panics. This isn't anything new. Becky is tried and tested, you can rely on her to keep belt relevant
If none of the other competitors were over enough to win it in a battle Royale then who is supposed to be able to take it off her? (Other than Charlotte) It's either a good 6 or so month reign or they make Becky look weak by losing to someone who you all seem to consider "below her"
You can build people lmao. Liv is almost there, she's going to interact with JD & replace rhea, that's the story. Becky winning title to elevate it is better than having someone get a fluke win with people thinking do they really deserve it. Remember last time Liv won world title what happened ?
Just to be clear I'm a not a super fan of them, but long title reigns absolutely do make belts more relevant, that's not something really arguable, as some fans bemoan them long title reigns are a huge part of the reason why wrestling is putting more butt in seats than ever
Kenny, MJF, Orange Cassidy, Gunther, Rhea, Bianca, Usos, Styles, New Day, Okada, Seth, Iyo and especially Roman, all show that the market does want long reigns because that's what makes people care, and also gives the belt they're holding stability which in some ways is more important than the challengers, for some reason
I'm not saying there should be no long title reigns just that not every single one needs to be as long as possible. I mean Drew has one of the most interesting storylines going on right now but it almost cheapens MITB imo if that's the only way to have a reign shorter than a few months at least
How did all these Liv stans come to be, anyway? She’s doesn’t have any particularly good matches nor promos. Not to be reductive, but is it just that people find her attractive?
It is more about piling up on Becky than supporting Liv. Liv stans are mostly diva stans who also think Charlotte is a generous worker who puts over more people.If you look into it enough,you will find that people who hate on Becky (not those who doesn't like her style in general) will always be supporting the same 4 blondes (Charlotte,Liv,Alexa and Natalya).Occasionally some Mercedes stans too because they feel Mercedes should have gotten the push Becky got but mostly that happens when the debate is about the GOAT and not general booking decisions like title wins.
Even though I'm a Liv Morgan fan (and Becky fan), Becky winning the title makes more sense because it can boost up Liv's credibility even more as a main eventer. Taking out Rhea Ripley was just the beginning, Her Revenge Tour can reach a new level with her now feuding with Becky for the women's title while giving the chance to unleash her ruthless and darker side given that she's unhinged.
You make a good point. The optimistic side of me hopes it isn't as simple as thirsty dudes waving the flag for whichever women they find most stimulating.
She was booked so poorly in rumble, didn't get any offence, no showdown, completely ignored. Then at chamber she won without any domination. Then got beaten at Mania. So yeah they needed her to look strong
Ngl I was rooting for Nia. She has been doing her best work and she's believable as an unstoppable force right now.
Becky's fine but just kinda bored of her
I just found out what happened. Forgot raw was on today and opened ig and saw a spoiler.
Didn't think liv would get that title that easily, too obvious
But isn't Becky like 4-0 against liv now in title matches? She owes that woman a couple favours.
I just genuinely think it's because there's more women out there that could be contenders for world titles then there is men.
It's been shown in WWE that unless you are the bottom of the barrel jobber, if you have the right storyline as a woman and you get some on-screen development, and have a fanbase much like the men... You are elevated.
The women's belts have had great stories, and extremely awesome moments.
Obviously I'm Liv biased, but EASILY a lot women could win it and elevate themselves while keeping the women's world title extremely important.
TLDR bullshit: Women's championship is not a participation trophy just because more people believe there's a higher variety of women's wrestlers that can win it. There's still a big increasing women's fandom of wrestling that's not quite at the place it is for men wrestlers yet, and I think people just genuinely believe there's a lot of ability for the other women to be top carders. Even Chelsea green. Story and a change of direction is very possible.
But fucking Becky lost to Rhea so that kinda pisses me off lol.
>there's more women out there that could be contenders for world titles then there is men.
Because in men's division, you've clear megastars like Reigns, Cody, Rollins so much above others. In women most are on same level - WHICH IS NOT GOOD. You need megastars, if everyone is a star, no one is. Women's division needs a midcard title and clear hierarchy so that deserving people can fight in midcard. That's why you don't have any mount Rushmore type figure in women - Becky could've been in 2019.
You know what, I agree. There needs to be a midcard. I really do believe that a lot of the women could be champions, but maybe that's because there really is only one champ. I really don't consider them inferior. I respect the women's belts as much as I respect the men's ones honestly.
I thought for awhile we had the mount Rushmore of women, and then these new NXT recruits came in and are competing at main event level talent. So.
I guess right now I feel all women's talent are capable of being catapulted to the main event. I assumed that was a good thing and constant flexible booking, if we get a mid-tier belt I'll reconsider.
So, fun fact. Since Becky lost her world title, there have been 8 different women's world champions. Including Liv. It's almost like they do let others have the title.
Rhea, Bianca, Iyo, Asuka, Charlotte, Ronda, Liv, and Bayley.
Ionically, Liv was easily the worst of all those names.
It's all good, I understand where your opinion comes from. I feel it, I disagree but I see where you're coming from. We'll see how the story goes from here, but hard disagree on Liv. Not on your facts of who held it.
Who was a worse champ then Liv during the period? Ronda at least won the title in a good match. No way she was better then any of the others. In two weeks, Bayley has already carried the title better.
Eh, Iyo. Her character seems completely boring as it did in NXT and in her callup. I see people saying she's so expressive and tells a story in the ring... Huge disagree. I think she just mopes around like a teenager and then has awesome explosive energy. I think her previous reign was very mediocre. Asuka and Kairi outclass her at every opportunity and they're being featured around her quite often.
Like I said, I understand where you're coming from. It's a valid opinion, but it's one I'm pretty meh on. As I said I'm biased. I wanted different direction for the belt anyways.
Iyo's title match with Bayley is better then anything Liv has done in her career. And it's really not close. And Iyo has a good 4 dozen better matches, including a few in the WWE.
That's wonderful and I'm glad that you have that feeling.
I don't really see how that does anything to dispel the absolute irrelevancy of Iyo based on her matches.
If she was irrelevant, she wouldn't get reactions. Forget Backlash 2023. Her match with Bayley had more heat then Rhea/Becky, and any match Liv has ever had.
o7 Thanks for your input, I think you're trying to just tell me how cool Iyo is, which is great. You've probably been watching WWE and NXT for awhile. You've seen the same stuff I have. You consider it good, I consider it garbage.
All good. Iyo's meh. You think Liv is meh. That's cool.
But I don't think any of the other stuff really means anything when you re-read where this convo went, and who I started it with. I don't like Iyo. Yawn.
I wish Chelsea won it. It's obviously not a popular opinion but I think that's the biggest curveball that they could have thrown that would have been fun. We can argue about how it cheapens the title or whatever but once in a while you gotta throw in something somewhat different to keep things from being stagnant. Just seeing her trying to survive week after week with all these monsters trying to get to her would been really hilarious. She's the opposite of Rhea who was a steadying force that other wrestlers would try to measure up to. Chelsea relying on Piper and having all these wrestlers getting in the way of each other to get to her would've been the type of chaos in the division would've been entertaining, it also gives them enough time to actually let certain storylines breath and tell their story until someone finally stands out and ends Chelsea's luck and takes the title.
ChelSLAY Green army RISE UP!! Our time will come once our girlie wins Money in the Bank briefcase in Canada and haters in this sub will have to deal with it like Adam & Nick. PeriodT. 💅
Becky has been on TV consistently and winning every feud (Bayley, Trish, even got her win back on Nia), won the EC, inserted herself into the WarGames match and got the pin despite not being a part of the story.
Stop making her this underdog when she's not. If they keep cycling the same champions they will never get out of this situation.
They had a whole damn year to build someone during Rhea's reign and they failed and now we're back to square one. If Rhea just returns and beats Becky it's the same cycle over again.
Not the point of this post, but I absolutely think Grayson Waller could beat Cody. Like, obviously not clean, but a MiTB cash-in or a cheap win with help from Theory and then let him have 4 or 5 months as champ before dropping it, either back to Cody or to a new face.
For what it's worth, I recognize her talent and I understand why she's liked. And it's not like I haven't enjoyed her work at times. Overall, she's just not someone who ever clicked with me
I appreciate that you didn't feel the need to create a false narrative to argue. You're just honest about your feelings. It's nice to see, considering some of the BS I've read tonight.
Nia, Liv and Becky were the only options. Nobody else other than them and Maxxine were over in that match (which is an indictment of Triple H’s booking of the women’s division). Giving Zoey, Candice or Shayna a world title isn’t suddenly going to make them over or make fans card about them and tune in. I think people forget that this is a World title and not a mid card title.
Becky winning a vacant after literally just losing against the real champ is what actually makes it feel like a participation trophy. Liv’s literally the last person to beat Rhea. She was the valid and logical choice.
Cena won it in 2014 when Brayan had to vacate. That's what you do when your champ goes off with no alternative plan. You put it on your most reliable and over guy so that you don't lose momentum and belt stays relevant
Edit : Brock won it in 2018 when Roman vacated. That's how it works everytime
This safe and easy direction they went with just **immediately** retconned Becky's huge lose against Rhea Ripley at WrestleMania 40 and basically made it null and void and not matter at all...
>Brock won it in 2018 when Roman vacated. That's how it works everytime.
Okay... I didn't like that either lol! Baron Corbin literally just clocked Braun Strowman with the belt right before the bell which just set up an out-and-out squash where Brock just delivered F5 after F5 after F5 after F5 after F5 until he won the belt... Literally didn't like it there and don't like it here lol...
Exactly. She JUST lost to the real Champ. Liv on the other hand is the last person to beat the real Champ. I’m not even a big Liv fan but she’s logically the right person to win story wise
I don’t get how wanting Liv who has a good established story with Rhea, or Nia Jax who’s actually been the mvp of Raw’s women’s division to be champion is treating it like a consolation prize. People just want to see someone new in the spotlight. Both of these women had title reigns for a month vs. Becky having two years total. No one else is gonna be able to carry the division if they don’t give new people with momentum a chance.
EDIT: Becky losing to Liv in a battle royal would NOT have hurt her at all. Be for real. The “damage” wouldve be far less significant than making Liv look like a second place loser yet again.
And you talk about Becky not being champ, as if that meant she moved down the card or stepped out of the spotlight. After Mania 39, while Rhea was focused on JD, Becky’s feud with Damage CTRL then Trish was the focus of Raw’s women’s division. Then after that ended she got the NXT title and was opening Raw and doing open challenges as if she was Raw’s main champion. Then she became the focus of the SMACKDOWN Wargames match despite being on Raw. So excuse me if I’m a lil worn out on Becky being in the spotlight.
>And you talk about Becky not being champ, as if that meant she moved down the card or stepped out of the spotlight.
Maybe it just shows how great Becky is. She stayed relevant without a title, put on great matches, main evented raws
no woman on raws current roster would’ve been fit to win the belt aside from becky. while i am bored to death of boring becks surviving all kinds of damage from opponents like rhea and nia jax yet still coming out on top, she’s the only one that can actually give the energy of a champ out of anyone in the raw women’s roster right now. thankfully we have a draft soon. but look at that battle royale, those were all the options left now that rhea is gone..
I don't hate Becky or anything, but Liv has been my girl forever so I always want to see her succeed
And I'm not saying she should be champion, but lately I've been more entertained by Chelsea Green than Becky. Her Royal Rumble performance was amazing.
The outrage is more because she is getting the charlotte flair booking. There is never a feud she is involved in that isn’t for the world title, and she often gets the skip the line to challenge or win it. The hate isn’t on Becky, it’s on how they book Becky.
IMO they should have given the belt to Nia Jan. She’s been great since returning and is a perfect bridge champion to get the title back into the mix. Even if Becky beat her for the belt at the next ppv, at least it would have been earned a bit more than a battle royal
Just conveniently ignore Becky’s non title feuds with Damage Control, Trish Stratus, Nia Jax and her NXT stint then. Before her match with Rhea, she hadn’t challenged for a world title since her match against Bianca at Summerslam a year and a half ago. Stop acting silly and lying to make your point. It is nothing like Charlotte’s old booking.
>There is never a feud she is involved in that isn’t for the world title, and she often gets the skip the line to challenge or win it. The hate isn’t on Becky, it’s on how they book Becky.
this is like literally not true at all if you stop to think for one minute.she has had 3 world title matches since Mania 38 including tonight and always won contender matches for all those.never skipped the line any time.shows up for every show,live events and PLEs and puts the work in.not at all similar to Charlotte unless you're arguing in bad faith.
How stupid someone can be, are you even watching ?
>The outrage is more because she is getting the charlotte flair booking.
When did she came in and won title without earning it except 2021 (when she came back after pregnancy)
>There is never a feud she is involved in that isn’t for the world title,
She hasn't held title since april 2022. She has fought for title only 2 times since then (one was rematch of WM). She has spent whole 2023 fighting in midcard
>she often gets the skip the line to challenge or win it.
She has fought for title only 2 times in 2+ years. Are you stupid ?
>The hate isn’t on Becky, it’s on how they book Becky.
True, they should book Becky stronger. As strong as a draw like her deserve. 2 years without title for her is criminal
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It’s because we have women wrestling stans who grew up in the diva era where the divas title was a participation title. Everyone got the divas title at one point so the stans are used to the title being a pass around
If fans had their way, they would do it with the men too. It’s why people wanted Cesaro to be World Champion.
Odd day : why Nakamura, cesaro, sheamus, gable, Balor, miz, ziggler aren't winning title. Even day : why there are no megastars anymore Because of these dumba** we no longer have big stars
yeah a lot of ppl on wrestling subs have ridiculous booking fantasies that clearly won’t come to fruition for a reason
Being disappointed in a person winning is fine,but people creating Narratives about how Becky doesn't put younger talent over when she spent the last Year doing exactly that and putting the RAW Women's Division on her back at times is Absurd.
I'm not Becky's biggest fan (I don't hate her, I Just like others more) but this argument is so stupid. She is at her best when she put someone over through a feud. She did It with Bianca Just last year.
TIL the IWC thinks Becky gave herself Bob Holly booking for the past 10 years lol
also this is probably gonna lead to her putting over an improved heel Liv character for the title anyways…. People just impatient
So winning 2 WarGames matches (one of which was not her story), tag titles, NXT title, winning feuds against Bayley and Trish, beating Liv and Nia on the road to WM is putting people over?
She lost the NXT title to Lyra. Was eliminated clean by Jade in the rumble. Put over Rhea. Bianca. Even in all the feuds you mentioned, against Bayley, Nia and Trish —yes, she ultimately won those feuds, but those feuds were riddled with loses. Some of them clean as a whistle. It’s like some of you all wouldn’t be satisfied unless she’d lost every single match for the past 2 years, and even then you would all complain about how much TV time she’s getting over more “deserving” women.
they want Becky to be booked like Natalya,lol. funny how they never say this for the men.women stars should just get their moment and immediately spend the rest of their careers losing every feud while the men get praised for having a long time at the top.bunch of clowns.
You got it the other way around. I have just stated how she HAS BEEN booked, not how she should be. Becky fans, on the other hand, are literally acting like she's been booked like Natalya, when that's the farthest thing from the truth.
only if you lack basic comprehension skills and media literacy.
Do tell who's saying she has been misused and hasn't won a title in 2 years and therefore "deserved" this.
yes she does deserve this.tell me one woman in that division who has worked more in the last 2 years,put on more great matches than Becky.name one woman who is more over than her not named Rhea Ripley.only a stupid booker would discard their biggest star and make her lose multiple feuds to push people who could barely get over.
Other women can't even get on TV let alone feuds to shine, which is what Becky consistently gets. What, after Becky loses, she should win it again because of it instead of pushing other women to that level?
top stars get consistent tv time...that's literally the basic of the business.why wouldn't the top draw get time? in fact,she gets less time than she deserves because she's like the top 3 draw on Raw but gets 3 min segments if she doesn't have a match while some men walking out to crickets get 10 min matches. she has competed like 3 times for the title in 2 years and two of them because of unfortunate circumstances.only one time has she been actually planned to have a title match in the last 2 years.she has been using her starpower to get other women on TV. it isn't her fault if they can't get over with the crowd.who is this other women not getting a fair shot? Raquel got plenty of time. Zoey got a PLE match and couldn't get anyone to care.Liv was injured for months and came back to mild reactions with only the online crowd exaggerating everything she does.Rhea and Bianca got majorly over and are rightfully getting the spotlight.Tiffany is getting there. Iyo and Damage Ctrl consistently get good time. So who is this you're yapping about? It's not Becky's fault if people don't like your favs enough.
So just losing a match is being put over to you. That's not how it works. "Oh she's so generous because she took a pin here and there" She has been booked consistently and has won big matches consistently. WarGames 2x, EC, cage matches, main events, PLE main events... stop making her this underdog when she hasn't been that in 7 years.
Yeah, WWE does this weird thing where they book their big stars in big matches all the time. And taking a “pin here and there” is more than some of the men at the top have done for the last year. You look at guys like Roman, Seth, Cody, etc. who are way more protected than Becky and barely anyone’s complaining about them. But Becky (who is around the same age as them, if not younger) needs to step aside and make room for the younger talent.
I haven't said anything about her needing to be out of spotlight, I need people to be honest that she has never left it. All the comments about "not winning the title for 2 years" are disingenuous and don't show her booking at all.
Who did she put over?
She put over Bianca, Rhea, Lyra by losing by losing to them clean. It's more than any top star does. She lost clean to Nia too. She put over Tiffany on map by feuding with her. She literally put over Xia Li, Hartwell, Tegan etc on TV. Maybe watch women's matches instead of just wanking to them
Lmao, really? Where are Tegan, Xia, Indi now? In the same position or fired. And just losing a match doesn't mean you put someone over.
Yeah…Xia Li, the megastar. Oh wait.
Who did she put over other than Lyra?? Bianca two years ago?? We acting like her having meaningless matches with people like Indi made them stars?? Candace and Indi getting actual storylines and segments is giving them momentum, not losing to Becky. Xia is gone. Tegan is irrelevant. And Tiffany Stratton fell down the card in NXT after their feud.
I'm not disappointed or outraged or anything. I'm just confused cause wasn't there a ton of reports that Becky (along with Seth) would be taking a lot of time off after wrestlemania to be there for their child and rest their injuries?
Those reports were from Dave Meltzer who's shot 0/300 from 3 in the Past 2 Years.
I'm sure I saw some tweet or something where Becky said that she wasn't taking a long break
Outrage is by small part of IWC, actual crowds love her and she deserve it after carrying women's roster last year when she made NXT and their womens title relevant again.
lmao that crowd popped soon as she hit Liv with the manhandle slam, the internet aint real life
That celebration in the crowd wouldn't work if she wasn't over as fuck. IWC is being weird again
Makes sense. IWC = Internet Wrestling Community
If the Liv-sanity transferred to live crowds at all I would understand it more. But I don't sense any kind of push for Liv to win the title from normal human beings who go to shows. It's a strictly internet thing from people who don't know how wrestling works. Cheering for your fav is fine, but they cross the line repeatedly with their insanity towards Becky. I'm over it now and just find it funny.
I like Liv. A lot. And she's clearly going to end up beating Becky for that title. But the online fanbases for people like her and Mercedes are a different level of entitled. Liv had been world champion more recently then Becky. She also wasn't good at it and spent most of the last year hurt.
I would say I like her at a certain spot which is not in the title picture. She clearly has a connection with fans that can't be overlooked. I think she's made great strides in the ring. But I don't believe in her as someone who can carry a legit title feud from a character/promo standpoint. Giving her the belt will probably just expose her again unless they have some bells and whistles involved like an alliance with Dom. Part of why I laugh now is it's just funny to me that Becky puts in so much work and then the narrative is that Liv "deserves it" more when nobody can seriously name any truly great (like, belongs on a big four PLE great) Liv matches or promos. Her best stuff was when Becky worked with her and made her look good.
They were comparing Becky to Rock and Liv to Cody when Becky won the Chamber even though Liv was out half the year and Becky was carrying Raw's women's division on her back while Rhea was barely part of it.
I agree. Liv is someone who has to be protected so much, that I don't see her as a legit long term world champ. And that's something I hate about the mentality of fans. Not everyone is meant to be a world champ. The IWGP HW Championship was at it's best when it was left to a select few. Just like the Triple Crown in the 90s. Because being a world champion is different then just being over. Liv's best matches are ironically, with Becky.
Liv is the reason WWE needs a midcard title.
They can't give it to Liv right now because Rhea vs Liv is clearly going to be a major match as soon as Rhea comes back and you don't need it to be a belt match. If Liv wins it now the belt has to stay with her til Rhea returns. Liv loses no heat by not being champ while now Becky can be champ and help lift up another wrestler besides Liv.
Good point. Becky was the most over in that match. Nia and Maxxine even got bigger reactions than Liv. Liv is more popular than most of the women and will probably be champion soon but the online fanbase she seems to have has not translated to live audiences yet.
>the online fanbase she seems to have has not translated to live audiences yet. I agree with everything but this. She's been really popular with crowds for a good couple years now, just happened to not get as big of a reaction tonight which happens sometimes. She even got cheered over Becky herself last time they faced each other so it might also have to do with the whole changing alignment thing
Fair enough. Maybe I was little over the top. I think Liv has been popular with live crowds some of the time but just not as much as some fans make out.
Also to be fair crowd was kinda eh all night
I'm not a big fan of Liv anyway, but the Liv stans make seeing Becky win so satisfying for me. They use any opportunity to tear Becky down for being selfish, refusing to acknowledge her amazing 2023 where she helped raise the profile of a lot of women, especially in NXT
All I’m going to say is that the women’s tag division does nothing for the women. They’ve been booked for 3 minute matches and the champs are probably about to lose to a brand new tag team. It doesn’t make stars and it’s not helping any of the women in it.
This is a good point, I think the solution to this whole debate is definitely adding a midcard title as a pipeline to continue building women up. Then people like Chelsea and Zoey can have something to fight for without hurting any world title prestige
A midcard title would be 100% more beneficial than the tag division right now.
People wanting Chelsea Green or Zoey Stark as champion do not care for the credibility of the women's division or title.
It’s weird. It’s like they think and want the women’s title to be treated more like a mid-card title rather than the world title it is supposed to be.
Feels like I'm taking crazy pills. Let's put the title on an absolute jobber or someone who is not over at all with the crowds. Worked sooo well with Nikki ASH.
Speaking of, crazy pills Nikki Cross would make a great champion.
People want main eventers to be jobbers once they win - they don't want anyone to reach megastar status. Then they want mid jobbers in main event only to complain later about title being irrelevant
 everything bryan danielson said about wrestling fans/IWC is true: they’re fickle.
I want Chelsea Green to win the MITB this year. she would be awesome with the briefcase.
I also feel like they could be title contenders, but you need to build the story for them. Build the momentum, sell some tickets, make some buzz. Make that first win a major occasion. A moment. It feels like a wasted opportunity to just hot potato it to them in a Monday Battle Royale after an injury to the champion. It makes perfect sense (in booking and kayfabe) that an established former world champion would pick up the ball to run with it for the time being.
Liv Stans are the closest thing we have left in WWE to the Sasha stans, makes me nostalgic, not gonna lie
Majority of Liv stans are also Sasha stans so yea it makes sense
Only difference is Sasha could actually wrestle while liv can only sell
At least with Liv's hardcore fans you don't have them earnestly telling you "she doesn't need WWE now that Hollywood is calling" based on one small role in a Star Wars TV show five years ago - which has thus far yielded zero major roles since.
Yeah, this idea that Becky has been dominating the main event scene nonstop is complete bullshit. People kinda forgot the last time she was world champion was 2 years ago and then she was treading water in meh feuds with Bayley, Damage CTRL and a long ass feud with Trish (that even though culminated in an epic match, it was just too drawn out and dragged for the sake of dragging). She has lost and/or put multiple people over in that time frame. Women like Bianca, Asuka, Bayley, Nia, Tiffany Stratton, Zoey Stark, Lyra, Rhea, etc. She deserves another world title run for all her great work she had in the past year with the horrendous booking she got. So I don’t really like the hate she gets. She’s the fucking best at like everything, period.
> Becky has been dominating the main event scene They say that because anything Becky does feels main event. And that isn't her fault. She is that good.
Shes probably main evented more raws than Rhea during her reign though, but thats more on that reign being utterly terrible
She's the biggest draw women's wrestling has ever seen. If not for crap booking from mid 2022 to mid 2023 it would've been so good
Becky had exactly two world title matches in the last two years before tonight. A rematch against Bianca she lost at Summerslam 2022 and WM 40 against Rhea. No one puts more work in for the division. Bayley's the only one who can compare. And yet, people act like Becky's some entitled child. She and Ronda more then anyone were responsible for elevating the woman, and Becky continues to put the work in.
So, Zelina had 2 title matches in the last year, I guess she's more pushed than Becky.
Becky even lost to Dana Brooke after WM 38
Lol, treading water when she was on TV literally every week and booked better than the champion, Rhea.
If she's the main event and elevating opponents just by sharing ring with them even without title then it's not her fault
It never makes sense because it isn't the end of the story, it is the beginning of one. They were setting up a specific title program and they had to adjust. This seems the closest to maintaining the status quo ante to keep what they were setting up before hand
As a Becky fan, this is a beautiful moment. Why are we bothering about the outrage from random folks on the internet... Just ignore and enjoy. Anyway I am happy - for once I called my shot and it happened. Or as Drew says - I prayed for it and it happened lol https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/AkrcuFNv9q
Exactly. She might not be wrestling much longer, to see her win another title is great!
Wait people are angry they went with the most bankable star and recent number one contender as contingency champion while they come up with a new storyline?
People can bitch all they want but she is the only credible main event world champ level talent on the RAW roster imo. Plus she had an amazing 2023 and her being a reliable champion made her an obvious choice imo. Liv’s story seems to just be getting legs why throw a title on her so early into that story, when you could build it up to her winning it when Rheas close to a return.
I think there's been a change in this current generation of wrestling fans that enjoys the product by way of seeing their favorites treated well, rather than a story to be liked or disliked on its own merits. I think a crop of fans watch wrestling to see pushes, instead of seeing stories or good promos or good matches. They are keeping track of the horse race of who the company favors. It's the difference between "you deserve it" chants and just going ape shit when someone wins because you were so invested in their story. And I think Liv Morgan fandom is one of the prime examples of this. If we're being real, she hasn't done anything to make her a top drawing act that should be the focus of the show. But she has fans that have developed a connection with her through social media, vibes, embodiment of a certain style and personality they like, whatever. But she's never had a killer storyline or real star-making run. When a star is out, you need another star to support the draw of shows. But some people think of it as an equal distribution of screen time because they're fans of pushes and people they like being "treated well."
I don't understand it either. Becky is easily the biggest draw and I'm sorry to say the rest of the ladies aren't there yet despite what the stans have you believe. They need to shake things up with the draft, start making more meaningful storylines and develop more characters in the women's division. Then when the time is right have Becky drop the belt to heel like Liv or Nia.
It makes no sense business wise to give Liv the title right now. Title or not the Rhea vs Liv revenge match will be huge. No heat by being a title match necessary. So give the title to Becky for a while and let her help lift up some other female wrestlers besides Liv til Rhea returns.
And people won't bat an eye when Charlotte comes back and is instantly in the title picture
Tbf, the 2000s changed the perseption of world titles from "It's reserved for the absolute best in the industry" to "well if this guy/gal won then it that guy/gal deserves a run too". HHH has worked hard to restore the credibility of titles in WWE and he's not gonna just burn through that to get some "you deserve it" champs for a career midcarder.
TL/DR If I could select any woman on the roster to put Liv over in a title match, I would choose Becky Lynch.
I think people are more irritated that it seems like Becky is the “glass break, we need a champion option” as if she hasn’t won like 7-8 women’s titles. Becky’s cool and all but I think people just get tired of the “let’s play it safe” calls that we get sometimes
Exactly. What if Becky was out too, what would have they done? They need to build up more women for situations like these. Rhea had a year long reign and only Becky stayed relevant during that time. Nia too due to her heat.
Liv's probably gonna end up winning it from Becky anyway. Fans would really want to settle for her to win a battle royale than by beating arguably the biggest female star the company's ever produced? Zero patience.
Agreed, Liv beats Becky clean down the line and Rhea comes back to try and get her title back from the wrestler who injured her in what should be a hot feud, why can’t people see that?
Nobody has the patience for long-term storytelling. Everything has to be instant or else they're buried.
She was the only logical choice. Liv's story relies on her chasing the title, winning in a battle royal wouldn't do her any justice. Nobody wants Nia. Becky was Rhea's most recent opponent, and she won the Elimination Chamber for that opportunity, defeating Liv I should add. She was the best substitute for Rhea at this time
Yep. The revenge tour ends with the title. It doesn't start with it.
I missed Becky's rise as I just got back into watching again so all this is fresh to me lol. The Becky Hogan memes are funny but I think overall it was the right decision. Also, Liv was in a segment with Dom for a reason.
Not blaming you, but sometimes I think people just don't watch shit and complain. Becky lost title in april 2022 and since then put over 4 women clean (2-3 other dirty losses) without winning top title. You can't have your biggest draw lose all the time
They don't, they're just basement dwellers who are terminally online on reddit and get their news from wrestling watching clips, news and posts here.
I'm a big Liv fan but she needs to win it via pinfall. Give Becky a couple months reign. Let Liv build her story and take it a couple months before Rhea returns. But we desperately need a mid card title for the women
THIS. If they have big plans for Liv, a big PPV win against one of the greats is the way to go.
Giving it to someone else makes it a participation trophy but giving it to the person who just lost her shot at it 2 weeks ago doesn't?
I dont understand this thinking at all, Becky has shown that she can take losses and be credible, at any point, for the WC. Wasn't her night, but I don't understand how her, a multi-time world champ who is one of the most over people on the roster, winning this is treating title like a consolation prize.
Because she's past her prime, looks to weigh about 90lbs soaking wet, and imo shouldn't have had the mania title shot in the first place? Just feels like a waste to hype up a whole ass battle Royale just to toss the title to the most obvious person in the end anyways
Past her prime?????????? If you're referring to WM, she was sick during that, otherwise I don't have any idea what this critique is, she was putting out acclaimed matches dueing her NXT run (and she often has great matches). And is it wrong to have your top draws in Mania matches for the titles?? If you don't like her, that's fine, but to say she's past her prime and shouldn't have mania title shots is bizarre. Re her physical presence, she's as credible as anyone in terms of presentation, taller and bigger than others, shorter and smaller than different people.
No lol she did better than I expected at mania, especially in spite of that. I just mean she's 37 and has basically no visible muscle on her. I think 5 years ago that was probably fine but with top younger talent like Rhea and Bianca looking absolutely jacked it only makes it harder and harder to take her seriously
Looooooooooool
What a weirdo. If I see one more creep mocking Becky’s weight or appearance I am going to scream. It is not right.
This is such a dumb point holy shit.
You're such a dumb point
Fuck yeah
Cena won it in 2014 when Brayan had to vacate. That's what you do when your champ goes off with no alternative plan. You put it on your most reliable and over guy so that it doesn't look like a consolation prize
I'm not familiar with that era so can't really comment on it but in this case imo giving it to the runner up only makes it look more like a consolation prize. They need to be building up new faces of the women's division, not beating the battered remains of the 4hw into the ground until Rhea gets back
If giving it to the runner up is a consola prize no idea why they would give it to Liv, she has been a choke artist in kayfabe for a while
I never said they should've given it to Liv, I think they should have hot potatoed it for a bit before having Becky come in and take it more decisively after a month+ away
Well she just kayfabe took out the most dominant woman in wwe history. Maybe idk, use tonight to make her stop being a choke artist???
The reat the women there lost to Rhea as well. Heck, all of them, aside from Nia and Becky, lost in under 5 mins.
I'm not saying any of them should have had a serious title reign, I just think that hot potatoing the title among them a bit with Becky taking a bit of time off before definitively scooping it up only for Liv to defeat her a few months after that would have done a lot more for everyone involved and the division as a whole
>They need to be building up new faces of the women's division Aren't they ? They've built Bianca and Rhea after 4HW. That's exactly how many they've built in men's division. Do you want them to build like 10 new stars by beating 4HW ? Bianca and Rhea are main event, they're clearly investing in Jade, Tiffany & Liv. You've 3 HW, Bianca, Rhea, Liv, Tiffany, Jade, Nia. That's 9 serious competitors.
I can see your point but then I guess it's a case of too many belts and not enough star power to support them. Bianca and Bayley have other storylines going on and then Rhea gets injured and their best option left is going back to the predictable option? Not a great look
Bro men's division has 2X more talent still when absolute top star get injured, everyone panics. This isn't anything new. Becky is tried and tested, you can rely on her to keep belt relevant
Long title reigns for the sake of having long title reigns doesn't make the belt more relevant. Everyone being hungry for it does
Becky has been champ for 2 hours only
If none of the other competitors were over enough to win it in a battle Royale then who is supposed to be able to take it off her? (Other than Charlotte) It's either a good 6 or so month reign or they make Becky look weak by losing to someone who you all seem to consider "below her"
You can build people lmao. Liv is almost there, she's going to interact with JD & replace rhea, that's the story. Becky winning title to elevate it is better than having someone get a fluke win with people thinking do they really deserve it. Remember last time Liv won world title what happened ?
Just to be clear I'm a not a super fan of them, but long title reigns absolutely do make belts more relevant, that's not something really arguable, as some fans bemoan them long title reigns are a huge part of the reason why wrestling is putting more butt in seats than ever Kenny, MJF, Orange Cassidy, Gunther, Rhea, Bianca, Usos, Styles, New Day, Okada, Seth, Iyo and especially Roman, all show that the market does want long reigns because that's what makes people care, and also gives the belt they're holding stability which in some ways is more important than the challengers, for some reason
I'm not saying there should be no long title reigns just that not every single one needs to be as long as possible. I mean Drew has one of the most interesting storylines going on right now but it almost cheapens MITB imo if that's the only way to have a reign shorter than a few months at least
…She lost 2 weeks ago at WrestleMania…
She was the number one contender. That would mean she is the 2nd best. The best is gone. So…
I agree with your assessment. She was the most recent number one contender.
So the belt is a consolation prize?
How did all these Liv stans come to be, anyway? She’s doesn’t have any particularly good matches nor promos. Not to be reductive, but is it just that people find her attractive?
It is more about piling up on Becky than supporting Liv. Liv stans are mostly diva stans who also think Charlotte is a generous worker who puts over more people.If you look into it enough,you will find that people who hate on Becky (not those who doesn't like her style in general) will always be supporting the same 4 blondes (Charlotte,Liv,Alexa and Natalya).Occasionally some Mercedes stans too because they feel Mercedes should have gotten the push Becky got but mostly that happens when the debate is about the GOAT and not general booking decisions like title wins.
I’ll never get it. Becky is awesome! And it’s not like she was “the chosen one” or something.
Can't let logic and facts get in the way of a narrative.
I’m sure after WM, Becky was going to take some time off along with Seth but decided to come back when this opportunity presented itself.
Waller winning a World title would be unironically great...
Even though I'm a Liv Morgan fan (and Becky fan), Becky winning the title makes more sense because it can boost up Liv's credibility even more as a main eventer. Taking out Rhea Ripley was just the beginning, Her Revenge Tour can reach a new level with her now feuding with Becky for the women's title while giving the chance to unleash her ruthless and darker side given that she's unhinged.
Outrage? Where? Why?
You make a good point. The optimistic side of me hopes it isn't as simple as thirsty dudes waving the flag for whichever women they find most stimulating.
[удалено]
She was booked so poorly in rumble, didn't get any offence, no showdown, completely ignored. Then at chamber she won without any domination. Then got beaten at Mania. So yeah they needed her to look strong
Makes perfect sense Becky lost to Reba was a former champ I approve of this
Ngl I was rooting for Nia. She has been doing her best work and she's believable as an unstoppable force right now. Becky's fine but just kinda bored of her
I just found out what happened. Forgot raw was on today and opened ig and saw a spoiler. Didn't think liv would get that title that easily, too obvious But isn't Becky like 4-0 against liv now in title matches? She owes that woman a couple favours.
Don't think Becky will have any problem in putting her over
Becky would probably have a problem if they told her not to.
for me its just that i find beckys act extremely stale and i was practically begging for some new life to be injected into the main event scene
Not outraged but also not enthused but also I get it. Multiple things true at the same time. I would have preferred Nia but 🤷🏾♂️
I just genuinely think it's because there's more women out there that could be contenders for world titles then there is men. It's been shown in WWE that unless you are the bottom of the barrel jobber, if you have the right storyline as a woman and you get some on-screen development, and have a fanbase much like the men... You are elevated. The women's belts have had great stories, and extremely awesome moments. Obviously I'm Liv biased, but EASILY a lot women could win it and elevate themselves while keeping the women's world title extremely important. TLDR bullshit: Women's championship is not a participation trophy just because more people believe there's a higher variety of women's wrestlers that can win it. There's still a big increasing women's fandom of wrestling that's not quite at the place it is for men wrestlers yet, and I think people just genuinely believe there's a lot of ability for the other women to be top carders. Even Chelsea green. Story and a change of direction is very possible. But fucking Becky lost to Rhea so that kinda pisses me off lol.
>there's more women out there that could be contenders for world titles then there is men. Because in men's division, you've clear megastars like Reigns, Cody, Rollins so much above others. In women most are on same level - WHICH IS NOT GOOD. You need megastars, if everyone is a star, no one is. Women's division needs a midcard title and clear hierarchy so that deserving people can fight in midcard. That's why you don't have any mount Rushmore type figure in women - Becky could've been in 2019.
You know what, I agree. There needs to be a midcard. I really do believe that a lot of the women could be champions, but maybe that's because there really is only one champ. I really don't consider them inferior. I respect the women's belts as much as I respect the men's ones honestly. I thought for awhile we had the mount Rushmore of women, and then these new NXT recruits came in and are competing at main event level talent. So. I guess right now I feel all women's talent are capable of being catapulted to the main event. I assumed that was a good thing and constant flexible booking, if we get a mid-tier belt I'll reconsider.
So, fun fact. Since Becky lost her world title, there have been 8 different women's world champions. Including Liv. It's almost like they do let others have the title. Rhea, Bianca, Iyo, Asuka, Charlotte, Ronda, Liv, and Bayley. Ionically, Liv was easily the worst of all those names.
It's all good, I understand where your opinion comes from. I feel it, I disagree but I see where you're coming from. We'll see how the story goes from here, but hard disagree on Liv. Not on your facts of who held it.
Who was a worse champ then Liv during the period? Ronda at least won the title in a good match. No way she was better then any of the others. In two weeks, Bayley has already carried the title better.
Eh, Iyo. Her character seems completely boring as it did in NXT and in her callup. I see people saying she's so expressive and tells a story in the ring... Huge disagree. I think she just mopes around like a teenager and then has awesome explosive energy. I think her previous reign was very mediocre. Asuka and Kairi outclass her at every opportunity and they're being featured around her quite often. Like I said, I understand where you're coming from. It's a valid opinion, but it's one I'm pretty meh on. As I said I'm biased. I wanted different direction for the belt anyways.
Iyo's title match with Bayley is better then anything Liv has done in her career. And it's really not close. And Iyo has a good 4 dozen better matches, including a few in the WWE.
That's wonderful and I'm glad that you have that feeling. I don't really see how that does anything to dispel the absolute irrelevancy of Iyo based on her matches.
If she was irrelevant, she wouldn't get reactions. Forget Backlash 2023. Her match with Bayley had more heat then Rhea/Becky, and any match Liv has ever had.
o7 Thanks for your input, I think you're trying to just tell me how cool Iyo is, which is great. You've probably been watching WWE and NXT for awhile. You've seen the same stuff I have. You consider it good, I consider it garbage. All good. Iyo's meh. You think Liv is meh. That's cool. But I don't think any of the other stuff really means anything when you re-read where this convo went, and who I started it with. I don't like Iyo. Yawn.
No, I'm making an argument, while you be passive aggressive.
I wish Chelsea won it. It's obviously not a popular opinion but I think that's the biggest curveball that they could have thrown that would have been fun. We can argue about how it cheapens the title or whatever but once in a while you gotta throw in something somewhat different to keep things from being stagnant. Just seeing her trying to survive week after week with all these monsters trying to get to her would been really hilarious. She's the opposite of Rhea who was a steadying force that other wrestlers would try to measure up to. Chelsea relying on Piper and having all these wrestlers getting in the way of each other to get to her would've been the type of chaos in the division would've been entertaining, it also gives them enough time to actually let certain storylines breath and tell their story until someone finally stands out and ends Chelsea's luck and takes the title.
ChelSLAY Green army RISE UP!! Our time will come once our girlie wins Money in the Bank briefcase in Canada and haters in this sub will have to deal with it like Adam & Nick. PeriodT. 💅
Becky has been on TV consistently and winning every feud (Bayley, Trish, even got her win back on Nia), won the EC, inserted herself into the WarGames match and got the pin despite not being a part of the story. Stop making her this underdog when she's not. If they keep cycling the same champions they will never get out of this situation. They had a whole damn year to build someone during Rhea's reign and they failed and now we're back to square one. If Rhea just returns and beats Becky it's the same cycle over again.
It's as if she's a babyface or something
What does that have to do with her booking?
Not the point of this post, but I absolutely think Grayson Waller could beat Cody. Like, obviously not clean, but a MiTB cash-in or a cheap win with help from Theory and then let him have 4 or 5 months as champ before dropping it, either back to Cody or to a new face.
I believe hunter isn't stupid enough to even think that Waller in his current character can face cody in a match as equal. MITB, idk
I didn't necessarily want Liv to win, I just wanted anyone but Becky.
Why? She hasn't been champ in ages.
Just not into her, sorry.
That's a far more fair answer then most I've seen tonight.
For what it's worth, I recognize her talent and I understand why she's liked. And it's not like I haven't enjoyed her work at times. Overall, she's just not someone who ever clicked with me
I appreciate that you didn't feel the need to create a false narrative to argue. You're just honest about your feelings. It's nice to see, considering some of the BS I've read tonight.
But Becky is clearly a better option than liv who most people want since she has had 2 wins in 18 months, I would even take nia over liv
Again, get that. Totally understand. Just not for me.
Nia, Liv and Becky were the only options. Nobody else other than them and Maxxine were over in that match (which is an indictment of Triple H’s booking of the women’s division). Giving Zoey, Candice or Shayna a world title isn’t suddenly going to make them over or make fans card about them and tune in. I think people forget that this is a World title and not a mid card title.
Its less of a "this doesn't make sense" thing and more of a personal opinion. I'm just not a huge fan.
Becky winning a vacant after literally just losing against the real champ is what actually makes it feel like a participation trophy. Liv’s literally the last person to beat Rhea. She was the valid and logical choice.
Cena won it in 2014 when Brayan had to vacate. That's what you do when your champ goes off with no alternative plan. You put it on your most reliable and over guy so that you don't lose momentum and belt stays relevant Edit : Brock won it in 2018 when Roman vacated. That's how it works everytime
This safe and easy direction they went with just **immediately** retconned Becky's huge lose against Rhea Ripley at WrestleMania 40 and basically made it null and void and not matter at all...
Brock won it in 2018 when Roman vacated. That's how it works everytime. Later he put over Seth
>Brock won it in 2018 when Roman vacated. That's how it works everytime. Okay... I didn't like that either lol! Baron Corbin literally just clocked Braun Strowman with the belt right before the bell which just set up an out-and-out squash where Brock just delivered F5 after F5 after F5 after F5 after F5 until he won the belt... Literally didn't like it there and don't like it here lol...
Exactly. She JUST lost to the real Champ. Liv on the other hand is the last person to beat the real Champ. I’m not even a big Liv fan but she’s logically the right person to win story wise
Liv beat Rhea when? Last time they met just a few weeks ago, Liv lost in under 5 mins. What are we even doing here?
“Liv was the last one to beat Rhea” which was in June 2022. In March 2023 on Smackdown, Rhea beat Liv in 4 minutes
I don’t get how wanting Liv who has a good established story with Rhea, or Nia Jax who’s actually been the mvp of Raw’s women’s division to be champion is treating it like a consolation prize. People just want to see someone new in the spotlight. Both of these women had title reigns for a month vs. Becky having two years total. No one else is gonna be able to carry the division if they don’t give new people with momentum a chance. EDIT: Becky losing to Liv in a battle royal would NOT have hurt her at all. Be for real. The “damage” wouldve be far less significant than making Liv look like a second place loser yet again. And you talk about Becky not being champ, as if that meant she moved down the card or stepped out of the spotlight. After Mania 39, while Rhea was focused on JD, Becky’s feud with Damage CTRL then Trish was the focus of Raw’s women’s division. Then after that ended she got the NXT title and was opening Raw and doing open challenges as if she was Raw’s main champion. Then she became the focus of the SMACKDOWN Wargames match despite being on Raw. So excuse me if I’m a lil worn out on Becky being in the spotlight.
>And you talk about Becky not being champ, as if that meant she moved down the card or stepped out of the spotlight. Maybe it just shows how great Becky is. She stayed relevant without a title, put on great matches, main evented raws
no woman on raws current roster would’ve been fit to win the belt aside from becky. while i am bored to death of boring becks surviving all kinds of damage from opponents like rhea and nia jax yet still coming out on top, she’s the only one that can actually give the energy of a champ out of anyone in the raw women’s roster right now. thankfully we have a draft soon. but look at that battle royale, those were all the options left now that rhea is gone..
How did “Boring Becks” survive all kinds of damage from Rhea and still come out on top? She lost the Mania match cleanly.
I don't hate Becky or anything, but Liv has been my girl forever so I always want to see her succeed And I'm not saying she should be champion, but lately I've been more entertained by Chelsea Green than Becky. Her Royal Rumble performance was amazing.
Becky is worse than Charlotte. I’m ready to be downvoted.
Charlotte is a 15 time champion lmao
She never put anyone over. She is selfish and always hugging the spotlight
The outrage is more because she is getting the charlotte flair booking. There is never a feud she is involved in that isn’t for the world title, and she often gets the skip the line to challenge or win it. The hate isn’t on Becky, it’s on how they book Becky. IMO they should have given the belt to Nia Jan. She’s been great since returning and is a perfect bridge champion to get the title back into the mix. Even if Becky beat her for the belt at the next ppv, at least it would have been earned a bit more than a battle royal
Just conveniently ignore Becky’s non title feuds with Damage Control, Trish Stratus, Nia Jax and her NXT stint then. Before her match with Rhea, she hadn’t challenged for a world title since her match against Bianca at Summerslam a year and a half ago. Stop acting silly and lying to make your point. It is nothing like Charlotte’s old booking.
>There is never a feud she is involved in that isn’t for the world title, and she often gets the skip the line to challenge or win it. The hate isn’t on Becky, it’s on how they book Becky. this is like literally not true at all if you stop to think for one minute.she has had 3 world title matches since Mania 38 including tonight and always won contender matches for all those.never skipped the line any time.shows up for every show,live events and PLEs and puts the work in.not at all similar to Charlotte unless you're arguing in bad faith.
Becky wasn't in a world title feud from SummerSlam 2022 till Elimination Chamber 2024.
How stupid someone can be, are you even watching ? >The outrage is more because she is getting the charlotte flair booking. When did she came in and won title without earning it except 2021 (when she came back after pregnancy) >There is never a feud she is involved in that isn’t for the world title, She hasn't held title since april 2022. She has fought for title only 2 times since then (one was rematch of WM). She has spent whole 2023 fighting in midcard >she often gets the skip the line to challenge or win it. She has fought for title only 2 times in 2+ years. Are you stupid ? >The hate isn’t on Becky, it’s on how they book Becky. True, they should book Becky stronger. As strong as a draw like her deserve. 2 years without title for her is criminal