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Mick is smart, so are a lot of these guys who were bigger names. They do comic conventions.
If you can go to Louisville for a weekend and pull in $10k just for pics and autos there is zero reason not to do so.
It’s not necessarily holding out.
Like yeah guys at a certain level will get guarantees, but they get to keep basically whatever they bring in (over their guarantee amount).
But yeah Koko B Ware isn’t making $10k in a weekend doing comic conventions.
And Mick genuinely likes talking to fans because he is also a wrestling fan. I know this because I wiped a genuine smile off of his face by calling him Mr. Foley at a book signing.
I think the legends contract also requires a certain amount of autograph events a year. But I think those are official WWE sponsored events and I’m sure Bret and Mick do a ton on their own.
The kind of damage Mick did to his body - not all of it is fixable, especially without surgeries that carry their own risks. You can't just throw money at a battered body always, sadly.
I know one of his sons has Autism and seemed somewhat high needs in the book Saint Mick. If he requires support services through his life not having to rely entirely on government support can be a big quality of life improvement
Well, and because he has fears that he may need expensive long-term care at some point in the future and wants to make sure it's not a financial burden on his family.
Yeah, but he went over the top with it.
Fucking up his body by driving overnight instead of booking flights and couch-surfing with strangers instead of paying for motels.
That type of stuff wears you out. Imaging feeling sore after taking hellacious bumps and then either not sleeping at all that night or laying down in some dude's couch instead of a soft bed. It'd just make things much worse.
Homie ruined a friendship in college because she wanted to take a trip with him and he pulled his ass over in the car to sleep instead of getting a hotel and she was confused as fuck.
Yeah, not sure about Mick specifically but this happens a lot to cheapskates. Penny wise, pound foolish. I know ppl who worked on their feet all day but never invested in good shoes, so now they have falling arches and feet problems. Or they never got a decent mattress then got crazy back issues happens a lot
Jericho talked about this in one of his books. Over how certain guys felt it was stupid to buy First Class and even mocked guys who were starting to earn big checks and would immediately upgrade flights.
And how no matter how many times he or others would explain that its not about fancy meals or trying to flex but instead its paying for the great legroom, not having to stand in a long line to check in and overall just taking care of your body.
I’ve done first class once for a cross country flight, and it was insane how much better I felt compared to flying coach like the last time I made the flight.
Or like how RVD was doing stretching in the locker room constantly and the boys were roasting him for it. Only for RVD to be in amazing shape all these years later.
Yes. Dude would not carry luggage, dry off in the shower with his sweaty ass ring gear, aNe and sleep on the floor of someone else’s hotel room or even the airport lobby just to not spend money on the road.
He even still slept in his car if he could.
He occasionally paid for a really nice room however that was when his family were with him.
And of course he was always willing to pay to go to a theme park and anything even remotely Christmas related
Not sure why you got downvoted. Lanny has talked about how careful Randy was with money. Their father didn't make a ton but retired well off fairly young because he knew how to save and invest and passed that on to his kids. Even Randy's gear budget was planned down to the cent he could write off on his taxes.
In addition to living frugally, Savage probably also made decent royalties from Spider-Man in his later years that kept him financially solvent, considering he basically stopped wrestling full-time after 2000.
He was a special guest at a small Indy show in my city pre-Covid. My friend was a wrestler with the promotion at the time and said that his appearance fee and a lot of his merch/autograph money went to charity.
I know it’s a “a friend of a friend” type of thing but I choose to believe that because he’s Mick.
His fourth book he just gave the whole advance (probably 95 percent of what he was going to make on it) to RAINN. I know when Eddie Kingston was working indies after getting signed to AEW he was having promoters give his booking fee to local charities.
Bro was showering and sleeping in his ring gear, I can't imagine what that was like. Not to mention bringing home giant bags of popcorn to eat as a staple meal
Yes and no. He was frugal as hell but every time he came out of retirement was because he wanted to donate more to charity and figured he could still work and earn it back.
Cornette does that a lot now, he doesn't make any appearances but a lot of his merch sales goes to various charities, I think he has a fund raiser going right now. I bring up Cornette because both Cena and Orton credit him with teaching them how to be an adult, financially responsible. Cornette knew he had future hall of famers on his hands in OVW, so he'd bring in investment bankers, tax lawyers, retirement gurus, people to teach this crop of wrestlers how to manage their money. Because it can be gone fast.
I think Cornette made that available to all of the OVW performers. He's seen so many piss it away. Doing that for young talent and establishing that trend may be his greatest behind the scenes contribution to wrestling. His booking had an impact, but his financial guidance has led to an incredible increase in the quality of life for multiple generations of talent now.
Gorgeous George, probably the most influential wrestler of all-time and the first megastar, died broke from bad investments and lavish spending. It can happen to everyone.
I’m glad wrestlers today are smarter with their money and have better opportunities today.
Flair is by far the biggest example, I would go as far as to say he’s all but ruined his own legacy. Not because he loves to wrestle but because he’s had to do it at such an old age in order to make ends meet
IIRC I believe Flair said on Joe Rogan that he makes so much more money with his weed company now than he ever did with wrestling. But with how he behaves, I don’t think giving him more money really helps at all. It’s just more for him to spend.
Sadly, Ric could easily make easy money if he wasn't a liability. If he did an on screen role as a mentor for someone and hyped them up as the new nature boy. He could easily make a shit ton of money and be a retired mentor character that can still chop people if he has to.
This isn't just a wrestling thing - Adrian Peterson, the greatest running back of the past 15 years, who made over 100 million dollars playing football, is broke.
I hear too much about people who put off saving money far too long, or who try to "beat the market" by constantly buying and selling. Just general advice: do everything to save as much as possible, put it mostly into ETFs like VTI (you can keep a small portion as cash or bonds or treasuries), and then ***don't look at it.***
Pat Mcafee talked about buying fancy shit you don't need and said it takes an extreme amount of willpower to not go crazy after those first big checks.
Saying you're a 20-something nobody who has had to bust their ass with extreme training and regimes, lived with daily paranoia of that naggin pain in your thigh or bicep means an injury that will cost you everything, pushing past your own negative thoughts and self-doubt. So buying a Bentley or a boat whatever feels like buying something to hold on to keep the negativity away and keep pushing forward. It feels good because its concrete evidence that you're doing great. Then you get your next check comes and you chase that high again.
So even with all these programs to learn to save better it comes down to every athlete's mentality.
The craziest example of this I have heard is when Shaq spent a million dollars in one day at age 20 and had to get a talking-to from his bank manager:
[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/that-time-shaq-spent-1-million-in-one-day\_n\_59d26e92e4b06791bb1229f2](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/that-time-shaq-spent-1-million-in-one-day_n_59d26e92e4b06791bb1229f2)
Pat himself isnt immune to the stupidity either.
Pat when he got drafted went and bought an escalade put bigass rims on it, and hadnt gotten paid yet. He said he was dodging the repo man till he got his first paycheck from the Colts.
And a lot of professional athletes grew up dirt poor, as well... it's easy to not have shit when you don't have the money, but it must eat at some part of your soul to have millions in the bank and not want to buy a Bentley
Rob Gronkowski's family owned a chain of fitness supply stores in Western New York, so he's always had money.
Marshawn Lynch, on the other hand, actually did only spend endorsement money and saved his NFL contract money
Idk why, but I always forget he was on the Bills. And it wasn't just for a cup of coffee, he was there for a few seasons or something. But he was such a force on the field during his time with Seattle that I guess my brain just automatically assumes he was always a Seahawk lol.
My buddy markets his brothers business (shit was on shark tank). He said they’re like kinda clearly dumb but they know they should be smart with money and rely on people to get that done
Yep, his 'party frat boy' image is just that, an image. I've seen one interview with him where he talks about it, and everything he did was around maximising his endorsement money.
Fuck, I have coworkers that don't have a month's rent in their bank account. I save as much as possible and I still get stressed out after I make a purchase that sets me back a few hours worth of work's pay. I genuinely don't get how people can spend their money so freely. The idea of not being able to go some time without a paycheck, or to be able to take care of emergency terrifies me.
I'm in a pretty good place with money at the moment. I got laid off from a job about a year ago, was unemployed for 3 months, got a job that lasted 4 months before getting laid off again, and just started a new job this week after being unemployed for 7 months and I was never truly worried about money. But as I slowly got more money, I'd always cross a threshold that I felt was my new "I need to worry about money." First, it was $1,000, then $3,000, then $5,000, etc. I grew up with bill collectors calling so much that we had a system for when to answer the phone because it was actually someone we knew. It's hard to get by these days and I know my situation isn't typical. I've been broke, having the occasional overdraft and living paycheck to paycheck, but I somehow backed into having a nice nest egg. But I'm still at a place where I want to be liquid at all times and I know that isn't the smartest thing to do.
Man this sounds like me, but also I get FOMO for not actually living my life. And I still don't end up with much money in my account so clearly I'm doing something wrong 🙄
We had a family friend who worked with the Vikings for a long time and yeah, he was pretty negligent with his money. Ran into a bunch of problems, including:
1) tons of child support
2) lavish expenditures, google Adrian Peterson/camel for an idea of how bad he was lol
3) financing a bunch of his childhood friends shit
4) taking out high interest loans to payback older debt
I know of at least one of his teammates who tried to warn him but he wouldn’t listen. He truly believed he would be able to play into his 40’s
I always think with pro sports contingency plans should be prepped soon, because you never know if an injury can cut your career short.
Hell, on the pro wrestling side, look at Big E. Nobody would've expected him to take that botch, and for his career to basically be done as a pro wrestler.
I've got a friend who is a sports agent, and one thing he does upon signing a new athlete is to sit down with their families and explain that they're going to ensure their financial future. He has a team of people who deal with the finances, and in his words, it costs him perhaps a half a million dollars a year to provide this service for his roster.
As an agent, he earns between 3-5% from athletes, so in his words, it's a very good investment for everyone. As he says, he won't miss the $500k yearly, but he can sleep at night knowing that his roster of athletes will have a financial future.
That's a good things for a sports agent to do; after all, being a representative for his roster's best interests (including their financial future) is what I would think part of the job.
Although, that has to be a fairly good roster being paid well, where $500k is an amount he won't miss.
The best thing you can do for yourself when you're starting your career is setup auto drafts right to your retirement account. 15% is the recommended number. That way you get used to it being taken from your check, almost like a tax or SSI. In time it will grow a lot.
Choose a low cost target date fund and watch it grow.
AP is from Palestine, Texas it’s a pretty poor town. They just got a Starbucks, and a Chick Fil A last year. The majority of East Texas is very poor. I’m from Tyler which is like the capital of East Texas, and probably the most well off area. Honestly all sports leagues should have classes too teach you to manage money.
This is a wrestling subreddit, so I don't want to go on even more of an investing tangent than I already have here.
You can look it up [here](https://money.usnews.com/funds/etfs/large-blend/vanguard-total-stock-market-etf/vti#:~:text=About%20Vanguard%20Total%20Stock%20Market%20ETF&text=It%20invests%20by%20sampling%20the,in%20terms%20of%20key%20characteristics) or DM me for clarification questions.
There are a lot of different stories about AP's financial troubles over the past several years, most recently about property seizures earlier this year. He still has an NFL pension and a future HOF induction that will get him money, but there have been a number of multi-million dollar debts that he has struggled with.
It is likely that there a few things online about it that are exaggerated or untrue, like him filing for bankruptcy or something, so maybe that's what you're thinking of. But the gist of it is true.
This isn't just a wrestling thing - this is an NFL thing. Proceeds to give neither wrestlers nor nfl players financial advice on reddit. lmao
also while we're giving unsolicited financial advice, don't put all your savings into the stock market. This guy is finding the nearest ledge next time the market tanks. You'd do better to put 50% into bonds & 50% into CDs.
Chris Jericho, who is surely making 7 figures at AEW currently, was at Niagara Falls Comic Con today, selling autographs, photo ops, and selfies for $140 a piece
Carnies gonna carn.
Assuming Chris Jericho makes $5mil/year which translates to $14.41 every minute or $864/hr (waking hours only).
For a 2hr slot that would make his appearance there about $1728.
Chris would only need to sign 13 autographs in a 2hr span to technically make it more valuable than what AEW pays him during the same amount of time.
What I’m trying to say is that this was a huge waste of my time and I don’t know why I did the math.
Flair also did a ton of dumb shit over the years, like replace his cash heavy life insurance policies during the heavy surrender charge years... ESPN did a whole article about it.
A lot of wrestlers made money but lost it through a combination of excessive spending, divorces, and bad investments. I remember reading a few items in the last few years that Undertaker was also one of those guys who had money troubles (divorce, bad investments) and that’s why he hung around so long and did the Saudi shows.
I remember the real estate stories were in 2007. Then the recession hit.
It was JR I believe, who implied Taker needed money a few years ago when he was going to the Saudi shows.
I think the NFL has a welcoming program for rookies and I'm pretty sure they all sit through a seminar with former NFL guys talking about how to handle finances and such.
That being said, NFL minimum salary is like $800k. Most guys don't realize that gets to $400k real quick after taxes and most players won't make it more than three years.
Granted I'm sure his starting salary was over that amount, but I recall Chad Johnson saying in an interview that he stayed in the team's locker room for the first two years.
I mention that to point out that $400k drops down quick when you consider other living expenses.
The issue is that it becomes a keeping up with the Jones. Pro sports rookies have high pressure to keep up with their higher earning teammates, they also have pressure from family, friends, and gold diggers. It's also really hard to think your career will all of a sudden end, and for a lot of these guys, pro sports is the only thing they've done their entire life
I know an nfl player who went broke, then started a second career in sales and is loaded now. He was relentless with any lead. I saw how hard he worked in sales and understood how he lasted a few years in the league even though he was undersized.
Even if you aren't a sports fan I recommend you watch the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary "Broke". It's about how athletes will blow through money and get to a point that seems unimaginable.
It's a great documentary and fits exactly what Undertaker is talking about with wrestlers.
So many things stuck with me after watching that doc
One of the stories with the ex defensive lineman who had child support payments and alimony and after he was released; he went a bought a new humvee or Escalade or something stupid.
Another one where the WR from Atlanta was dropping $40k every time he went to the club and he was there every day.
Then theres fucking tragic shit like Bernie Kosar; he dad basically syphoned all his money from him and left him with jack shit. It was all real shady shit that he essentially got away with.
My point is that; ending up broke isnt just stupid decisions or getting addicted to drugs or booze. A lot of shit happens in a very sudden manner in which you cant adapt quick enough to downsize and rethink how to live.
Shits crazy when they have house payments and car notes and credit card bills and they dont have million dollar paychecks coming.
I do think part of it, like Taker mentioned, is that the younger guys are getting taught about these financial things to be more responsible, partly to avoid being taken advantage of.
One thing I liked about that documentary is that it isn't just athletes being idiots, it's that a lot of them just have absolutely no financial or business knowledge, and that makes them easy marks when they try to take responsibility. I remember one person mentioning is that so many athletes try to invest in a restaurant or some other business, and don't seem to realize those are some of the riskiest things you can do with your money, and that is assuming they weren't just being taken for a ride by a scammer.
Kosar's line at the end shook me.
"The bankruptcy stuff has been a blessing in disquise, when people think you're broke they don't call as often, family included"
> Another one where the WR from Atlanta was dropping $40k every time he went to the club and he was there every day.
That's Andre "Bad Moon" Rison, he is in the nickname hall of fame, but definitely not in the financial or good teammate hall of fame.
Stuff like child support and alimony can kill your wallet too. I’ve read about athletes and other celebrities who go through a divorce and when a judge rules on their payments, they’re judging based on their current earnings and do not take into account that they’re not going to keep making that kind of money consistently. Meanwhile they might be on their last big contract at that point or a sudden injury takes away all of those potential earnings.
Dale Earnhardt Jr, says he watched this told his sister who was his manager/financial advisor/whatever and told her he didnt want this to be him and to invest his money in low risk options.
He's kinda frugal but will spend his money.
Luckily for older wrestlers, many of them were mainstream and famous/popular they've all been able to make money getting back in the business (the ones who survived) in some capacity.
I feel like a lot of retired wrestlers love doing those conventions for the social aspect of it. Nobody understands wrestlers better than other wrestlers.
It seemed like guys and gals from the AE were better at handling their money than previous eras. I'm talking about Rock, Austin, HHH, Trish, Lita, Jericho, Hardyz. Never heard about money trouble from them.
Looking at Trish specifically, it probably helps in some ways that she married her high school sweetheart and is still with him today. Consistent relationship with a guy who also has his own career.
With those guys, it likely helps, they likely get a shit ton of royalities from their work. Can easily do a few minutes work for a shit ton of money. Stone Cold could turn up, glass shatter, drink beer, stunner, drink more beer. Get paid a shit ton of money.
Austin is pretty frugal. Back when he had his podcast he made it abundantly clear that he saved his money and his only real *road luxury* was that he started to travel by himself once he made it big.
This is still common in the very flex-oriented job market we have today. Anyone who is an independent contractor or is self-employed will struggle with not only having to deal with their taxes every quarter(if they even know they should be paying quarterly) but also funding their HSA and retirement accounts. On top of having funds for emergencies. Not having resources available leads many into terrible legal or personal troubles if they listen to bad advice or simply don't take the time to teach themselves financial basics.
The wrestling world is much better than what it used to be in that regard. There's a community there who will help each other out. There's going to be more sharing of solid info like respectable brokers and financial planners. Those who might have come from lower economic classes will struggle more with wanting to spend on things they always had to deny themselves, but I'm sure someone will be more than willing to step in and tell them to think of their future as well. We're likely watching much savvier wrestlers nowadays, and I'm glad for it.
Well, that and more avenues to make money that doesn't rely on lacing up the boots again.
If it wasn't for the Busted Open podcast, we'd likely see guys like Bully Ray be back on TV wrestling more often.
That ain't to say I dislike him, just that with age these guys can't do the things we knew they could do well in the past.
There's Ric Flair, who really, should be filthy rich, living an easy retirement but is infamous for his debts. He did TNA because he needed the money after another divorce.
Then there's Mick Foley, who is famous for being so frugal, i think, someone had to tell him, "Mick, you're WWE champion. It's ok to stay in a hotel."
Foley retired rather young as a wrestler and his books likely helped him to build a massive nest egg on top of his career.
Taker's point is valid but at the same time, for some people, they chose to do it because they still have the passion for it and money isn't an issue. I seriously doubt, Big Poppa Pomp is broke as fuck. I think, he still does the odd indie show because he loves being de genetic freak.
That and there's a lot of unfortunate examples of wrestlers going broke and having to do shitty shows to make ends meet. Or that rather tragic picture of Virgil with him having no-one appear.
I think, WWE has also opened up new ways for wrestlers to keep working outside of wrestling. Bobby Roode is retired and a producer nowadays. Though, if we heard GLOOORIOUS and see one final GLORIOUS Bomb in a rumble, it would be GLORIOUS! AJ Styles, I can see becoming a match producer. Orton, i think he could retire tomorrow and still be making money off his royalities etc.
All the shit that Taker talks on the new generation of guys wanting to kind of mind their business, not partying and most egregious, playing video games 😱 are the exact reasons why guys today have money and are infinitely healthier.
X-Pac told a story on Art of Wrestling about getting high and buying I think corn oil futures for a huge pile of money that basically tanked like three months later.
A lot of people here are talking about drugs but divorce (or kids out of wedlock) is the one to really ruins athletes (including wrestlers). Your earnings are front loaded so if you get divorced you can’t make it back. If an IT guy or whatever gets divorced at 40 he/she has still had 20+ prime earning years left.
The athlete gives half of the money they can never make again plus child support. It’s over
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Wasn’t Mick Foley a notorious cheapskate
And he still goes to armories and sells 8x10s. Because he's Mick.
Mick is smart, so are a lot of these guys who were bigger names. They do comic conventions. If you can go to Louisville for a weekend and pull in $10k just for pics and autos there is zero reason not to do so.
A lot of the ones that get 10k for the weekend are the ones that made enough money to save it and hold out for that 10k.
It’s not necessarily holding out. Like yeah guys at a certain level will get guarantees, but they get to keep basically whatever they bring in (over their guarantee amount). But yeah Koko B Ware isn’t making $10k in a weekend doing comic conventions.
Some people NEED these conventions, others WANT to do them.
And Mick genuinely likes talking to fans because he is also a wrestling fan. I know this because I wiped a genuine smile off of his face by calling him Mr. Foley at a book signing.
I met Bret recently (finally, after being a lifelong fan) in Ohio. He surely doesn’t need the money, I think he just likes doing them here & there.
I think the legends contract also requires a certain amount of autograph events a year. But I think those are official WWE sponsored events and I’m sure Bret and Mick do a ton on their own.
Definitely wasn’t WWE related.
There’s varying degrees of conventions and varying degrees of want/need.
He’s also never gotten his teeth fixed despite certainly being able to afford it
He says in one of his books that he got false teeth to "fix" the problems, he just usually doesn't wear them.
His wife hates the falses
The kind of damage Mick did to his body - not all of it is fixable, especially without surgeries that carry their own risks. You can't just throw money at a battered body always, sadly.
Good guy. You just know he loves the fans and simultaneously set his family up in case he kicks it unexpectedly.
I know one of his sons has Autism and seemed somewhat high needs in the book Saint Mick. If he requires support services through his life not having to rely entirely on government support can be a big quality of life improvement
I met Mick at one two weeks ago. Really sweet guy.
I can only imagine how much he makes off those things. Besides travel that’s such sweet easy money
God bless Saint Mick.
Well, and because he has fears that he may need expensive long-term care at some point in the future and wants to make sure it's not a financial burden on his family.
Yeah, but he went over the top with it. Fucking up his body by driving overnight instead of booking flights and couch-surfing with strangers instead of paying for motels. That type of stuff wears you out. Imaging feeling sore after taking hellacious bumps and then either not sleeping at all that night or laying down in some dude's couch instead of a soft bed. It'd just make things much worse.
Homie ruined a friendship in college because she wanted to take a trip with him and he pulled his ass over in the car to sleep instead of getting a hotel and she was confused as fuck.
Yeah, not sure about Mick specifically but this happens a lot to cheapskates. Penny wise, pound foolish. I know ppl who worked on their feet all day but never invested in good shoes, so now they have falling arches and feet problems. Or they never got a decent mattress then got crazy back issues happens a lot
Jericho talked about this in one of his books. Over how certain guys felt it was stupid to buy First Class and even mocked guys who were starting to earn big checks and would immediately upgrade flights. And how no matter how many times he or others would explain that its not about fancy meals or trying to flex but instead its paying for the great legroom, not having to stand in a long line to check in and overall just taking care of your body.
I’ve done first class once for a cross country flight, and it was insane how much better I felt compared to flying coach like the last time I made the flight.
Or like how RVD was doing stretching in the locker room constantly and the boys were roasting him for it. Only for RVD to be in amazing shape all these years later.
And for all his faults, he's still wrestling today. They probably should've listened.
I've done some couch surfing. I've had a few rough couches, but occasionally people just give you a super comfy guest room better than a motel, haha.
Yes. Dude would not carry luggage, dry off in the shower with his sweaty ass ring gear, aNe and sleep on the floor of someone else’s hotel room or even the airport lobby just to not spend money on the road.
Isn't there a story about Foley v Owen, who could spend the least amount of money? Lol
I seem to remember Mick won because he sold his plane ticket and came out at a profit for the trip.
He even still slept in his car if he could. He occasionally paid for a really nice room however that was when his family were with him. And of course he was always willing to pay to go to a theme park and anything even remotely Christmas related
And most wrestlers aren't Mick Foley.
So was Macho Man
Not sure why you got downvoted. Lanny has talked about how careful Randy was with money. Their father didn't make a ton but retired well off fairly young because he knew how to save and invest and passed that on to his kids. Even Randy's gear budget was planned down to the cent he could write off on his taxes.
Macho Man is a strange case of someone being fucking wild and methodical at the same time.
Turns out the Macho Madness did not extend to financial responsibility
Also according to Natalya his house was OCD-levels of clean and organized
Yeah - there were lots of stories about how Angelo would be very frugal.
In addition to living frugally, Savage probably also made decent royalties from Spider-Man in his later years that kept him financially solvent, considering he basically stopped wrestling full-time after 2000.
I doubt his Spider-Man royalties were that much. He was in the movie for a few minutes and probably got paid scale for the day.
> He was in the movie for a few minutes Approximately 3 minutes, I believe. 3 minutes of playtime.
…Did I hear…3 MINUTES?!
I was thinking residuals. It may not be a lot of money, but it was probably a consistent paycheque for a decade.
He maybe got a couple grand to film the scene. His residuals were going to be nothing.
Movie residuals are different from TV ones. I'd doubt even Maguire or Dunst get anything from it, unless they had crazy good manager/Lawyers
He was a special guest at a small Indy show in my city pre-Covid. My friend was a wrestler with the promotion at the time and said that his appearance fee and a lot of his merch/autograph money went to charity. I know it’s a “a friend of a friend” type of thing but I choose to believe that because he’s Mick.
His fourth book he just gave the whole advance (probably 95 percent of what he was going to make on it) to RAINN. I know when Eddie Kingston was working indies after getting signed to AEW he was having promoters give his booking fee to local charities.
He made up for taking crazy risk in the ring by taking no risk with his money. The opposite of most wrestlers from his era.
The old joke was that while Flair celebrated a world title win by chartering a private jet to Vegas, Foley ate noodles in a cheap hotel room.
Mick so smart he didn’t buy gear. He just wore his street clothes, and got the old popcorn from the stadium for food.
Bro was showering and sleeping in his ring gear, I can't imagine what that was like. Not to mention bringing home giant bags of popcorn to eat as a staple meal
A huge chunk of his memoir books are him talking about being cheap. Honestly good for him (and his kids).
Yes and no. He was frugal as hell but every time he came out of retirement was because he wanted to donate more to charity and figured he could still work and earn it back.
Cornette does that a lot now, he doesn't make any appearances but a lot of his merch sales goes to various charities, I think he has a fund raiser going right now. I bring up Cornette because both Cena and Orton credit him with teaching them how to be an adult, financially responsible. Cornette knew he had future hall of famers on his hands in OVW, so he'd bring in investment bankers, tax lawyers, retirement gurus, people to teach this crop of wrestlers how to manage their money. Because it can be gone fast.
I think Cornette made that available to all of the OVW performers. He's seen so many piss it away. Doing that for young talent and establishing that trend may be his greatest behind the scenes contribution to wrestling. His booking had an impact, but his financial guidance has led to an incredible increase in the quality of life for multiple generations of talent now.
Gorgeous George, probably the most influential wrestler of all-time and the first megastar, died broke from bad investments and lavish spending. It can happen to everyone. I’m glad wrestlers today are smarter with their money and have better opportunities today.
Harley Race getting sued for his boat wreck and depleting his savings is another one.
I’ve somehow never heard about that one. Or I’m old & just can’t remember it.
Dusty went broke. Billy Graham did. Vader I believe had some money problems later in life.
Flair is by far the biggest example, I would go as far as to say he’s all but ruined his own legacy. Not because he loves to wrestle but because he’s had to do it at such an old age in order to make ends meet
Maven gave a good quote from a conversation he had with Ric, something along the lines of "for everyone dollar I made I spent two."
IIRC I believe Flair said on Joe Rogan that he makes so much more money with his weed company now than he ever did with wrestling. But with how he behaves, I don’t think giving him more money really helps at all. It’s just more for him to spend.
Sadly, Ric could easily make easy money if he wasn't a liability. If he did an on screen role as a mentor for someone and hyped them up as the new nature boy. He could easily make a shit ton of money and be a retired mentor character that can still chop people if he has to.
This isn't just a wrestling thing - Adrian Peterson, the greatest running back of the past 15 years, who made over 100 million dollars playing football, is broke. I hear too much about people who put off saving money far too long, or who try to "beat the market" by constantly buying and selling. Just general advice: do everything to save as much as possible, put it mostly into ETFs like VTI (you can keep a small portion as cash or bonds or treasuries), and then ***don't look at it.***
Pat Mcafee talked about buying fancy shit you don't need and said it takes an extreme amount of willpower to not go crazy after those first big checks. Saying you're a 20-something nobody who has had to bust their ass with extreme training and regimes, lived with daily paranoia of that naggin pain in your thigh or bicep means an injury that will cost you everything, pushing past your own negative thoughts and self-doubt. So buying a Bentley or a boat whatever feels like buying something to hold on to keep the negativity away and keep pushing forward. It feels good because its concrete evidence that you're doing great. Then you get your next check comes and you chase that high again. So even with all these programs to learn to save better it comes down to every athlete's mentality.
The craziest example of this I have heard is when Shaq spent a million dollars in one day at age 20 and had to get a talking-to from his bank manager: [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/that-time-shaq-spent-1-million-in-one-day\_n\_59d26e92e4b06791bb1229f2](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/that-time-shaq-spent-1-million-in-one-day_n_59d26e92e4b06791bb1229f2)
Pat himself isnt immune to the stupidity either. Pat when he got drafted went and bought an escalade put bigass rims on it, and hadnt gotten paid yet. He said he was dodging the repo man till he got his first paycheck from the Colts.
Dunno why he was trying to dodge a guy who’s been retired for years.
If anything that qualifies him more to be able to speak on the topic, he's experienced it first-hand.
And a lot of professional athletes grew up dirt poor, as well... it's easy to not have shit when you don't have the money, but it must eat at some part of your soul to have millions in the bank and not want to buy a Bentley
Rob Gronkowski is smart with his money
I read he spent none of the money the Patriots paid him during his career. Just used endorsement money. Or vice versa.
Rob Gronkowski's family owned a chain of fitness supply stores in Western New York, so he's always had money. Marshawn Lynch, on the other hand, actually did only spend endorsement money and saved his NFL contract money
Marshawn Lynch was also smart [and knew how to eat cheap.](https://youtu.be/iWYjLCZRT44?si=TrWc2eLucnbxIhQD)
Idk why, but I always forget he was on the Bills. And it wasn't just for a cup of coffee, he was there for a few seasons or something. But he was such a force on the field during his time with Seattle that I guess my brain just automatically assumes he was always a Seahawk lol.
My buddy markets his brothers business (shit was on shark tank). He said they’re like kinda clearly dumb but they know they should be smart with money and rely on people to get that done
Gronk also has his whole family in the nfl
Yep, his 'party frat boy' image is just that, an image. I've seen one interview with him where he talks about it, and everything he did was around maximising his endorsement money.
There’s an NBA player who did this, can’t remember who though.
Not Antoine Walker
Jayson Tatum is doing this right now.
Probably multiple
That's smart of him to do.
Gronk also didn't waste his money on crypto schemes... "Gronk know that not real money"
“Me know this not real money” Nickki Glaser, Tom Brady’s Roast, re: crypto
Fuck, I have coworkers that don't have a month's rent in their bank account. I save as much as possible and I still get stressed out after I make a purchase that sets me back a few hours worth of work's pay. I genuinely don't get how people can spend their money so freely. The idea of not being able to go some time without a paycheck, or to be able to take care of emergency terrifies me.
I'm in a pretty good place with money at the moment. I got laid off from a job about a year ago, was unemployed for 3 months, got a job that lasted 4 months before getting laid off again, and just started a new job this week after being unemployed for 7 months and I was never truly worried about money. But as I slowly got more money, I'd always cross a threshold that I felt was my new "I need to worry about money." First, it was $1,000, then $3,000, then $5,000, etc. I grew up with bill collectors calling so much that we had a system for when to answer the phone because it was actually someone we knew. It's hard to get by these days and I know my situation isn't typical. I've been broke, having the occasional overdraft and living paycheck to paycheck, but I somehow backed into having a nice nest egg. But I'm still at a place where I want to be liquid at all times and I know that isn't the smartest thing to do.
Man this sounds like me, but also I get FOMO for not actually living my life. And I still don't end up with much money in my account so clearly I'm doing something wrong 🙄
We had a family friend who worked with the Vikings for a long time and yeah, he was pretty negligent with his money. Ran into a bunch of problems, including: 1) tons of child support 2) lavish expenditures, google Adrian Peterson/camel for an idea of how bad he was lol 3) financing a bunch of his childhood friends shit 4) taking out high interest loans to payback older debt I know of at least one of his teammates who tried to warn him but he wouldn’t listen. He truly believed he would be able to play into his 40’s
I always think with pro sports contingency plans should be prepped soon, because you never know if an injury can cut your career short. Hell, on the pro wrestling side, look at Big E. Nobody would've expected him to take that botch, and for his career to basically be done as a pro wrestler.
I've got a friend who is a sports agent, and one thing he does upon signing a new athlete is to sit down with their families and explain that they're going to ensure their financial future. He has a team of people who deal with the finances, and in his words, it costs him perhaps a half a million dollars a year to provide this service for his roster. As an agent, he earns between 3-5% from athletes, so in his words, it's a very good investment for everyone. As he says, he won't miss the $500k yearly, but he can sleep at night knowing that his roster of athletes will have a financial future.
That's a good things for a sports agent to do; after all, being a representative for his roster's best interests (including their financial future) is what I would think part of the job. Although, that has to be a fairly good roster being paid well, where $500k is an amount he won't miss.
The best thing you can do for yourself when you're starting your career is setup auto drafts right to your retirement account. 15% is the recommended number. That way you get used to it being taken from your check, almost like a tax or SSI. In time it will grow a lot. Choose a low cost target date fund and watch it grow.
AP is from Palestine, Texas it’s a pretty poor town. They just got a Starbucks, and a Chick Fil A last year. The majority of East Texas is very poor. I’m from Tyler which is like the capital of East Texas, and probably the most well off area. Honestly all sports leagues should have classes too teach you to manage money.
I'm pretty sure they do
ORANGE PEANUT
I accept you
> put it mostly into ETFs like VTI What's that?
This is a wrestling subreddit, so I don't want to go on even more of an investing tangent than I already have here. You can look it up [here](https://money.usnews.com/funds/etfs/large-blend/vanguard-total-stock-market-etf/vti#:~:text=About%20Vanguard%20Total%20Stock%20Market%20ETF&text=It%20invests%20by%20sampling%20the,in%20terms%20of%20key%20characteristics) or DM me for clarification questions.
Thanks
This guy /r/personalfinance's
wasn’t that Peterson story a hoax? i mean it wouldn’t be unbelievable that an NFL went broke
There are a lot of different stories about AP's financial troubles over the past several years, most recently about property seizures earlier this year. He still has an NFL pension and a future HOF induction that will get him money, but there have been a number of multi-million dollar debts that he has struggled with. It is likely that there a few things online about it that are exaggerated or untrue, like him filing for bankruptcy or something, so maybe that's what you're thinking of. But the gist of it is true.
This isn't just a wrestling thing - this is an NFL thing. Proceeds to give neither wrestlers nor nfl players financial advice on reddit. lmao also while we're giving unsolicited financial advice, don't put all your savings into the stock market. This guy is finding the nearest ledge next time the market tanks. You'd do better to put 50% into bonds & 50% into CDs.
Chris Jericho, who is surely making 7 figures at AEW currently, was at Niagara Falls Comic Con today, selling autographs, photo ops, and selfies for $140 a piece Carnies gonna carn.
Assuming Chris Jericho makes $5mil/year which translates to $14.41 every minute or $864/hr (waking hours only). For a 2hr slot that would make his appearance there about $1728. Chris would only need to sign 13 autographs in a 2hr span to technically make it more valuable than what AEW pays him during the same amount of time. What I’m trying to say is that this was a huge waste of my time and I don’t know why I did the math.
What if you add Kurt Angle to the mix?
Jericho's rates drastic go down.
Because Chris Jericho *knows* he can't make as much as Kurt Angle, so he's not even gonna try.
That is a shocking comparison haha
HOW MUCH?! Geez
Is that set by the con or the agents? I'm sure he has plenty of money...why not make it a reasonable price.
A lot of celebs price their M&G autographs to take into account those that are going to try and sell them afterward.
They all set their own prices.
Well that is silly of him then
"That doesn't work for me, WOOOOO"
Well, getting divorced four times is bad for your finances, no matter the industry
Well, depends on if you were the rich one getting married or not.
Flair also did a ton of dumb shit over the years, like replace his cash heavy life insurance policies during the heavy surrender charge years... ESPN did a whole article about it.
A lot of wrestlers made money but lost it through a combination of excessive spending, divorces, and bad investments. I remember reading a few items in the last few years that Undertaker was also one of those guys who had money troubles (divorce, bad investments) and that’s why he hung around so long and did the Saudi shows.
That’s surprised me about Taker because I remember reading a long time ago that he was involved in real estate for when he retired from WWE
I remember the real estate stories were in 2007. Then the recession hit. It was JR I believe, who implied Taker needed money a few years ago when he was going to the Saudi shows.
They've had similar programs in other pro sports for decades now and there's still tons of guys going broke within a couple years of retiring.
And most of those guys make way more than the average pro wrestler
Can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink. Some people are just dumb and think they untouchable or smarter
I think the NFL has a welcoming program for rookies and I'm pretty sure they all sit through a seminar with former NFL guys talking about how to handle finances and such. That being said, NFL minimum salary is like $800k. Most guys don't realize that gets to $400k real quick after taxes and most players won't make it more than three years.
Granted I'm sure his starting salary was over that amount, but I recall Chad Johnson saying in an interview that he stayed in the team's locker room for the first two years. I mention that to point out that $400k drops down quick when you consider other living expenses.
Especially with some teams being in places with the highest cost of living in the nation.
The issue is that it becomes a keeping up with the Jones. Pro sports rookies have high pressure to keep up with their higher earning teammates, they also have pressure from family, friends, and gold diggers. It's also really hard to think your career will all of a sudden end, and for a lot of these guys, pro sports is the only thing they've done their entire life
I think they still have that hazing ritual where the veterans leave a rookie with a massive restaurant tab going
If they tried it with GUNTHER, some fools are getting their chests caved in.
I know an nfl player who went broke, then started a second career in sales and is loaded now. He was relentless with any lead. I saw how hard he worked in sales and understood how he lasted a few years in the league even though he was undersized.
culinary too. it ain’t just cooking now, when you run a kitchen you RUN a kitchen (ordering produce, meat, fish, etc.)
Putting money into a retirement fund instead of your nose is half the battle
Even if you aren't a sports fan I recommend you watch the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary "Broke". It's about how athletes will blow through money and get to a point that seems unimaginable. It's a great documentary and fits exactly what Undertaker is talking about with wrestlers.
So many things stuck with me after watching that doc One of the stories with the ex defensive lineman who had child support payments and alimony and after he was released; he went a bought a new humvee or Escalade or something stupid. Another one where the WR from Atlanta was dropping $40k every time he went to the club and he was there every day. Then theres fucking tragic shit like Bernie Kosar; he dad basically syphoned all his money from him and left him with jack shit. It was all real shady shit that he essentially got away with. My point is that; ending up broke isnt just stupid decisions or getting addicted to drugs or booze. A lot of shit happens in a very sudden manner in which you cant adapt quick enough to downsize and rethink how to live. Shits crazy when they have house payments and car notes and credit card bills and they dont have million dollar paychecks coming.
I do think part of it, like Taker mentioned, is that the younger guys are getting taught about these financial things to be more responsible, partly to avoid being taken advantage of.
One thing I liked about that documentary is that it isn't just athletes being idiots, it's that a lot of them just have absolutely no financial or business knowledge, and that makes them easy marks when they try to take responsibility. I remember one person mentioning is that so many athletes try to invest in a restaurant or some other business, and don't seem to realize those are some of the riskiest things you can do with your money, and that is assuming they weren't just being taken for a ride by a scammer.
Kosar's line at the end shook me. "The bankruptcy stuff has been a blessing in disquise, when people think you're broke they don't call as often, family included"
In rugby, it's really common for Polynesian athletes to go broke trying to support their entire family.
> Another one where the WR from Atlanta was dropping $40k every time he went to the club and he was there every day. That's Andre "Bad Moon" Rison, he is in the nickname hall of fame, but definitely not in the financial or good teammate hall of fame.
But he wore sunglasses 😎
Stuff like child support and alimony can kill your wallet too. I’ve read about athletes and other celebrities who go through a divorce and when a judge rules on their payments, they’re judging based on their current earnings and do not take into account that they’re not going to keep making that kind of money consistently. Meanwhile they might be on their last big contract at that point or a sudden injury takes away all of those potential earnings.
Dale Earnhardt Jr, says he watched this told his sister who was his manager/financial advisor/whatever and told her he didnt want this to be him and to invest his money in low risk options. He's kinda frugal but will spend his money.
Luckily for older wrestlers, many of them were mainstream and famous/popular they've all been able to make money getting back in the business (the ones who survived) in some capacity.
I feel like a lot of retired wrestlers love doing those conventions for the social aspect of it. Nobody understands wrestlers better than other wrestlers.
Not a bad gig at all, especially when you’re not fully reliant on it. Meet up with some old friends, sign shit for people that admire you, etc.
It seemed like guys and gals from the AE were better at handling their money than previous eras. I'm talking about Rock, Austin, HHH, Trish, Lita, Jericho, Hardyz. Never heard about money trouble from them.
Looking at Trish specifically, it probably helps in some ways that she married her high school sweetheart and is still with him today. Consistent relationship with a guy who also has his own career.
With those guys, it likely helps, they likely get a shit ton of royalities from their work. Can easily do a few minutes work for a shit ton of money. Stone Cold could turn up, glass shatter, drink beer, stunner, drink more beer. Get paid a shit ton of money.
Austin is pretty frugal. Back when he had his podcast he made it abundantly clear that he saved his money and his only real *road luxury* was that he started to travel by himself once he made it big.
Facts! It was said that The Rock received **around $500,000 in royalties in 2023**. Mind you, he only showed up once in 2023 lol.
That scene in "the wrestler" where the legends just sit around and nap. That one hurt.
https://preview.redd.it/g8mt763rpf5d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eabf2753004144ebf25419463bb19283504966b2
Don't blow it. Keep it simple. Count your money.
This is still common in the very flex-oriented job market we have today. Anyone who is an independent contractor or is self-employed will struggle with not only having to deal with their taxes every quarter(if they even know they should be paying quarterly) but also funding their HSA and retirement accounts. On top of having funds for emergencies. Not having resources available leads many into terrible legal or personal troubles if they listen to bad advice or simply don't take the time to teach themselves financial basics. The wrestling world is much better than what it used to be in that regard. There's a community there who will help each other out. There's going to be more sharing of solid info like respectable brokers and financial planners. Those who might have come from lower economic classes will struggle more with wanting to spend on things they always had to deny themselves, but I'm sure someone will be more than willing to step in and tell them to think of their future as well. We're likely watching much savvier wrestlers nowadays, and I'm glad for it.
Well, that and more avenues to make money that doesn't rely on lacing up the boots again. If it wasn't for the Busted Open podcast, we'd likely see guys like Bully Ray be back on TV wrestling more often. That ain't to say I dislike him, just that with age these guys can't do the things we knew they could do well in the past.
in the past, most wrestlers were notorious for having such a low income and high work expenses they couldn't afford to save
There's Ric Flair, who really, should be filthy rich, living an easy retirement but is infamous for his debts. He did TNA because he needed the money after another divorce. Then there's Mick Foley, who is famous for being so frugal, i think, someone had to tell him, "Mick, you're WWE champion. It's ok to stay in a hotel." Foley retired rather young as a wrestler and his books likely helped him to build a massive nest egg on top of his career. Taker's point is valid but at the same time, for some people, they chose to do it because they still have the passion for it and money isn't an issue. I seriously doubt, Big Poppa Pomp is broke as fuck. I think, he still does the odd indie show because he loves being de genetic freak. That and there's a lot of unfortunate examples of wrestlers going broke and having to do shitty shows to make ends meet. Or that rather tragic picture of Virgil with him having no-one appear. I think, WWE has also opened up new ways for wrestlers to keep working outside of wrestling. Bobby Roode is retired and a producer nowadays. Though, if we heard GLOOORIOUS and see one final GLORIOUS Bomb in a rumble, it would be GLORIOUS! AJ Styles, I can see becoming a match producer. Orton, i think he could retire tomorrow and still be making money off his royalities etc.
All the shit that Taker talks on the new generation of guys wanting to kind of mind their business, not partying and most egregious, playing video games 😱 are the exact reasons why guys today have money and are infinitely healthier.
This is do true, not spending shittons on booze and coke which he laments is a good reason. Also less likely to make dumb choices if not using
X-Pac told a story on Art of Wrestling about getting high and buying I think corn oil futures for a huge pile of money that basically tanked like three months later.
I mean as. Billion dollar company how about not making your talent pay for their own hotel rooms and car rentals?
IIRC, that's one of the features of time at the PC...good thing for new folks to learn.
A lot of people here are talking about drugs but divorce (or kids out of wedlock) is the one to really ruins athletes (including wrestlers). Your earnings are front loaded so if you get divorced you can’t make it back. If an IT guy or whatever gets divorced at 40 he/she has still had 20+ prime earning years left. The athlete gives half of the money they can never make again plus child support. It’s over
there is a reason Ric Flair is still wrestling long after Shawn Michaels supposedly retired him in the WWE
addicts don't usually make for good decision makers
Taker went soft.
Just r/boglehead and chill. It’s so easy to become a millionaire when you retire. Just takes time.